Fate

There was only one HGW in Fuyuki in that timeline.

>How did the 5th Grail War even work out in the FGO timeline?
It didn't. There was only a grail war, the 1st one that took place on 2004 for whatever reason. We don't know why but maybe Zouken/Makiri becoming the Demon God Barbatos is why the previous ones didn't happen.

Marisbury knew the grail war was a sham and an attempt to bring back the Third Magic, but he had no interest in that path to the Root. Solomon knew it too and was willing to kill himself if his Master desires it (Command Spells don't work on him).

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Is there something wrong with the Third Magic as a path to the Root?

He wants to do it his own way, not the Einzbern/Makiri way.

It sets your world and timeline on the list of timelines that will get pruned, per Apocrypha. So yes.

Mahoyo explained it that in some cases magic is the result of finding a determinate path to the root. If you complete that ritual, you won't get anything you want from the Root (unlike some headcanon wankers think), you'll get the Third Magic. Marisbury simply doesn't give a shit about the Third Magic, he says the Animusphere will find their own path if needed be.

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Only if you use it on humanity on a large enough scale. Just having access to the Third Magic doesn't automatically take the timeline to the trash bin.

That was only because Amakusa phrased his wish badly. He didn't just wish to make everyone immortal (aka HF). His wish was to make everyone immortal but ALSO to strip all "evil" from their souls aka lobotomize them.

He doesn't want it.

Immortality = stagnation = timeline pruned

The Animusphere path to the Root sounds a lot more like the 4th Magic, anyway.

It's not just stagnation but will make the world too different to pass the check up of common shared history.

>Immortality = stagnation
>everyone becomes immortal spirits
>gets bored
>goes out to explore the stars forever like Dr. Manhattan
>no stagnation
>no pruning
Wow that was incredibly easy to find a counterexample. The threat of pruning was solely due to Amakusa's desire to remove all ambition from people's minds in the name of purging evil.

It's through Chaldeas whatever that means. It could be a new magic for all you know. Since he insisted to be their way to do things. New path found = new magic.

That's also why only can happen to those withought Root connection or live in the Age of Men. Like Manaka can't find a new path to the Root when she's connected to it already.

Imagine being Nasu and having to retcon how the entire multiverse works just to retroactively create a reason for Amakusa to be wrong.

>Since he insisted to be their way to do things. New path found = new magic.
How would you even know if you were accidentally trying to replicate the 4th magic? Nobody knows what it does besides a vague sense of it "hiding" things. You could be researching a path to the Root that has been shut since before your birth and not even realize.

Worth pointing out that most of the Magics can probably fuck with the world in bad ways. First Magic possibly creates things out of nothing, which doesn't do thermodynamics any favors. Third can send your timeline to the bin. Fifth as used by Aoko messed with the heat death of the universe.

Don't fuck with Magic, kids.

Reminder that Solomon is attracted to this dick.

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I'm not against the theory of that magic, but I mean if he wants a unique path it won't result in any known magic. Each magic is obtained by a singular path found and only that path leads to it.

Reminder that Solomon already has a boyfriend who didn't need to pretend to be a girl or turn himself to one to catch his eye.

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What can Second do?

Time travel/dimensional stuff (which might be related to time because the dimensional differences are indeed caused by differences in outcomes).

Yes but you wouldn't ever know that your supposedly-"unique" path to the Root wasn't so unique after all until you were right at the Root and found the way closed.

It opens wormholes in spacetime to any other point in spacetime. This lets you travel between parallel worlds, steal shit from other worlds, and time travel. There may be other things you can do with it as well but those are the confirmed abilities it has demonstrated.

I'm not making the rules, Nasu are. And since Nasu seems pretty explicitly Buddhist or at least influenced by Buddhism, immortality BAD.

Maybe. I'm not sure Marisbury wouldn't know, he seems well known about everything except his one and only developing a conscience.

Magics still come from the Root, so they're not from outside reality or anything.

Probably cause time paradoxes if you go back in time and kill your grandfather.

Time travel is just the trivial application of being able to travel across dimensions. Instead of opening a portal between points at time T1 in dimensions A and B, you open up portals between times T1 and T2 within the same dimension A. But it's all the same shit.

Actually that's not demonstrated, the only thing we know if Zel using mana of other timelines to fuel his spells.

And by Nasu's own lore, humanity is fated one day to achieve species-wide HF by it's "own" power and that this will be a-ok by the World, and that the reason why Amakusa's plan would bring the hammer down on them is because he wasn't doing it right.

I'm not a magus and even I could win if I summoned solomon
A blind, crippled, retarded baby could win if they summoned solomon

We have never seen Zelretch doing this. We have seen people like Musashi doing it though.

You're confusing headcanon with feats.

In SF Zel hangs out in some weird lair that's outside of any known dimension yet is fully capable of walking around in various dimensions within the Kaleidoscope. Not to mention that he makes personal appearances in both Tsuki and Fate worlds, which would be impossible unless he had the ability to walk between dimensions.

See

>In SF Zel hangs out in some weird lair that's outside of any known dimension yet is fully capable of walking around in various dimensions within the Kaleidoscope.
Neither of that is demostrated, it's again your take on it. In fact, he requires a Mystic Code to even observe what is happening on a present zone. A mystic code anyone would be able to use.

>Not to mention that he makes personal appearances in both Tsuki and Fate worlds,
Probably not the same guy. In Tsukihime, he's a DAA, and in Fate, there's no DAAs.

That’s rather easy to accomplish when your Servant has the firepower of Gilgamesh but none of the jobber attitude. One order to nuke the city is enough to win. One Ars Salamonis later and every other Master is a pile of ashes and the surviving Servants would fade not too long after. You’d need to have enough mana to give Solomon for the NP though so someone like Shirou wouldn’t have been able to do the same.

Solomon has A++ mana at least, and he's a Caster, he can easily get a workshop to supply him.

There are no DAAs, but there are DAs. In Fate worlds he's likely just a DA.

Then he's not the same guy from Tsukihime, but a Fate version. Like Lev from Tsukihime and Mahoyo (who is friends with the Aozaki sisters) isn't the Lev of Fate.

Could be, we have no idea how Zel's power works in regards to alternate selves. He could just be a single person across all timelines.

He can't be a single person because he's a DAA in Tsukihime unless Nasu will retcon this when his DAA list is out, and such thing doesn't exist in Fate.

Solomon already has Sheba and she's hot

The DAA title is just a title. I don't see any reason why a DAA couldn't be transported to a human order strong timeline. They might be weaker, but Zel doesn't exactly hang around much anyway.

Any legitimately highly skilled and competent mage would generally clean house in the HGW since most participants are idiots, idealists, lunatics, or teenagers who don't know what they're doing.
Touko would probably get similar results even without a servant as broken as Solomon.

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>Probably not the same guy.
Now this is headcanon. In Tsuki worlds there is a formal organisation of vampires which bestows the title of DAA on people. That organization does not exist in Fate worlds but he is still a vampire in Fate.

Furthermore, Zelretch appears in multiple Fate worlds. He's behind the construction of the Grail in all timelines in FSN, he appears in SF, he makes a personal appearance in Prisma, etc etc.

Saying that Zelretch cannot hop timelines is pure contrarianism.

touko is a retard who jobbed to cornelius

>he makes a personal appearance in Prisma
Zelretch seems a bit ridiculous here. He's this ancient vampire wizard High Marshal Magus with Second Magic, can go to any parallel world he wants, could learn and see so much of effectively anything he likes.

And instead he just goes to a world and watches a couple of ten year old girls play with an infinite mana stick? Why not actually do something worthwhile?

Did you mean to say exactly the opposite of what you said? Because that's the only way it'd make sense.

Does Crimson Moon exist in Fate timelines? Because if he doesn't, then Zelretch wouldn't be vampire unless he hops timelines.

didn't Cornelius end up in one of her boxes of tricks.

>And instead he just goes to a world and watches a couple of ten year old girls play with an infinite mana stick? Why not actually do something worthwhile?
Who are you to judge what he does and does not find worthwhile?

TAs exist in general. Something just happened that made Gaia side with humanity.

It's confirmed that Crimson Moon doesn't exist in Extra timeline

What higher calling could there be?

>greatest Master
By having more than 2 braincells?

Sheba lost even in chibichuki, user.

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It's not a title only, read the blurb where it says there aren't DAA in Fate, is about their power apex.

>Furthermore, Zelretch appears in multiple Fate worlds.
Which could be a different one. Why you think is the same one? Honestly only you hold that headcanon.

>Solomon
>monogamy
user...........

What would be Touko's wish anyway?

>Bazett
>Kayneth

How would a Gil vs Solomon fight look like?

>Bazett
Too naive, no one should trust a creep like Kirei. That said, if she had been less gullible she probably would've done extremely well with Cu, so there's that.
>Kayneth
>Competent

>king of jobbers
>fight
Kek

Probably Blue. Can you use an application of one of the Five Magics to obtain one of the others? Eh.

I think is more interesting to bring up the Masters here.
Kotomine and Gilgamesh with Maribury and Solomon. Masters do play a role in how the Servants act. Marisbury and Solomon are pretty the reverse opposite dynamics and kind of people.

Probably extremely boring. We know what Gil is like when he's serious and Solomon was essentially a living automaton that just obeyed God's will, there'd be no chemistry in the fight at all.

Don't think that can be granted. The only thing the Grail can grant is a path to the Third, not another magic or Marisbury would have wished for whatever he wanted there. Remember the Grail only grants things you know a way to obtain it or how to obtain it.

>no chemistry
On the opposite, Gil seems to like the type of broken and empty beings (Enkidu used to be like that, Kotomine) and the burdened kings. Solomon is that combined. I see Gil trying to get him want stuff not just fight him.

Gil likes to take pet projects to make them have wishes and desires, though. Solomon before his wish was the poster child for this.

Then probably something more mundane, like all the junk she wanted to buy in KnK before going broke.

Gil would probably think that Solomon is a real threat for him, and serious Gil is the most powerful servant (except Beast).

Who is the MC Servant? That's important.

Gil can want that until the cows come home, but unless GoB also conveniently has a "break free of the Will of God" NP I doubt it'll do much good.

Holy shit, user. This guy appears as your servant and slaps all the other masters on their ass, you won the HGW! What is your wish?

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You're wrong about that. As Servant, Solomon's no longer bounded to God's will, that was just as long he lived, but he's obviously stunned. Marisbury made him think things and was capable of realizing wish through his prodding.

Like this user said: Solomon and Marisbury are opposite in relationship to Gil and his Masters of Zero. Solomon takes Kotomine's place as the empty participant who has no wishes, and he's realized a wish thanks to his Master. But my point is that Gil finds that type of people interesting, probably because he's the opposite as an hedonist.

>serious gil is the most powerful summon
Solomon would literally delete gil

Be rich, and settle down with him with our test tube daughters.

Go away Marisbury

Gil is "one of the most powerful" now, as of lore profile. It's because there's a bunch of super Servants. Can you say he's more powerful from Ivan, Skadi, Super Arjuna or Qin?

for solomon to stay and become my familiar

No.

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That would be directly in conflict with his wish though. You don't want to cheat him out of that, do you?

>ivan
yes
>skadi
yes
>arjuna
might pose a threat but enkidu gg
>qin
yeah

Become a beautiful girl and Solomon's only wife.

Gil would probably go seriously, so if nothing else it would be spectacular as a battle.

>What is your wish?
A best girl.

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There's a doujin with FSN Gil as Solomon and Merlin Master.

>summon solomon
>order him to kill our rival masters and servants
>sit back and sip tea while fuyuki burns
>win

Ez.

Reminder

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He will be my pet and he'll be happy about it

Funny part is, Chaldea basically created very close approximations of True Magic when Marisbilly wasn't even planning to reach the Root.

>They are using an imitation of the 3rd Magic and 2nd Magic to send people back in time to stop someone who is using an imitation of the 5th while its heavily implied someone linked to the 4th Magic is involved.

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That isn't particularly unique. Sasaki in FSN with Tsubame Gaeshi was literally trespassing on the Second Magic already, just because he really wanted to kill that swallow.

He planned to reach the Root though. Not him but his family eventually.

The joke is that Zelretch is the player who can endlessly save and reload to go down different routes. That's why he's less powerful, less interested in shit, and doesn't do much in novels or games like FGO - because the player/reader can't choose a different path.
Strange Fake was one of the few times he thought about getting personally involved because the war might wake up ORT.

>A swordsman accomplished more than 99% of magi.
Really makes you think

Speaking of ORT how can it even be dealt with?

The same way all the planet codes are dealt with.

Nasu bullshitting the main cast into putting them back to sleep or using a magic that interrupts their code.

Is ORT stronger than Goetia?

Normalfags humans can btfo him in a century or less according to Zel, so he's not even a big deal.

Yes, and Zelretch might have weaker vampire powers while he's in Fate worlds. There's no way to know one way or the other.

>that clae

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Why didnt the servants killed by True Assassin turn into magic dust like they normally do?

That's because of how Nasu's timeline works.

Age of Gods and Mystery -> Age of Heroes -> Baby shit weak no mystery -> Age of Science Heroes -> Age of Man Above Gods

Essentially a humanity that survives long enough develops technology that surpasses the gods because it can harness the full power of information. 20th and 21st Century humanity is just weak because all science does is explain things, thus remove the mystery.

Heroic Spirit Gil would probably win due to way older Mystery and being even more broken. As Servants Solomon wins if he has a master who can use him well though.

A bunch of inbred demon hunters eventually produced someone connected directly to the Root.
Somehow doing completely unrelated shit gets better results sometimes, apparently.

From a purely energetic standpoint, Zel's magicannon is more powerful than Geotia's NP, and Zel was the underdog against CMB who is probably a weaker Aristoteles (though at that level it's basically a technicality) than ORT. Maybe.

Ether Liners are fucking badasses, it's not that surprising.

Zelretch wasn't talking about that but about normal people.

Being older doesn't necessarily means more mystery. Solomon was such piece of a mystery that mystery started to commit suicide and disappear after his death. Likewise if you compare I don't know Hector or Paris with Merlin, Merlin has more mystery.

As Heroic Spirit, Solomon has a Superior Saint Graph as default (same as Merlin if he would become one). The grand Servants aren't just vessels - they get sorted as the "top Seven Heroic Spirits" (not Servants). Gilgamesh doesn't have this. Same I'll imagine with every Lostbelt King.

Pretty much, it's roughly explained, Saint Graph is different "Superior" to other Heroic Spirits. You can summon them in lesser vessels/containers or into their right ones, though, like happens with Divine Spirits.

I thought casters were useless against anyone with high magic resistance like sabers?

Can you rephrase it? I have no idea what you're trying to say in the first sentence.

Greater Grail never appeared in Zero yet Shirou remembers it vividly in Fate/stay night and Saber fighting against Gil in a sea of fire, something that doesn't happen in Zero but we actually see in DEEN's FSN anime.

Explain this, Fate lore bros

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Solomon doesn't give a single fuck about her, like literally he doesn't care about her.

They're the best bet against Casters, but it's not like it's a deal set in stone. Sabers are probably the class that are best equipped to deal with Casters, but Casters usually have some gimmicky bullshit at their disposal.

Like Divine Spirits, they have a different spirit foundation, they have a "Superior Saint Graph" in comparison to normal Heroic Spirits. You can summon them with lesser containers, as you do with Divine Spirits and Pseudo Servants. The containers depend on the capacity of the summoning system, the Master compatibility and other stuff (including the terrain bonuses and fame ones). Of course normally you cannot fucking summon Solomon or any of the Seven, like you can't summon gods usually.

The only Caster who ever had her shit nullified is poor Medea, Nasu makes MR useless now. Even shit Casters like Andersen can unleash Kiara bullshit in CCC.

reminder that you need a very high IQ and a brief understanding of theoretical physics to properly understand fate/stay night.

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Solomon isn't just any Caster.

When they speak of classes is always a generalization, the container of the GRAIL WAR Saber is better (not Saber in general) and has MR for example, but this doesn't mean if you summon, say, Saber Gilles he'll be able to overcome Circe.

When the caster in question is the guy who performed literal miracles and created Magecraft in the first place, I'm pretty sure magic resistance is nothing to him

Solomon isn't affected by command spells. Even those with MR A feel the burn of Command Spells (Saber found extremely painful to resist one) and can't do anything if are given a second one.

Zero was already put into spin off and alt timeleline section because of inconsistencies like that.

Gareth is very cute and Lancelot is a fag for cracking her skull when she was unarmed and wasn't even trying to fight back.

>summons Demon God Pillars
>Saber with her magic resistance gets squashed like a bug

>Shirou would literally not want him to fight

I don't think you know who you're actually talking about. Shirou lets Saber fight, like everytime. If he's actually aware of what's going on he just lets fights happen.

Have you actually ever read the VN? or are you just some dumb secondary trying to sound smart?

>Gareth
Who

This cutie

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Honestly the best thing of Shirou and Solomon in a Grail that isn't tainted is Shirou and Roman walking the world helping people together. Roman as a doctor, and Shirou with his thing.

Girl on the Right. Gawain's Imouto and The Cutest and Sweetest Knight of the Round Table.

Good ol Lancy snapped her skull in two in one of his butthurt episodes. The girl wasn't even trying to fight back then.

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Fate has officially made me paranoid. She has a dick doesn't she? You're not fooling me this time.

Nah, she doesn't. She doesn't like Merlin.

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Are we going to see Ars Nova animated?

Why did beochad aka daybit do this bros?

Unless they cover the Temple of Time, no

tfw some people fail to realize Solomon was summoned as a normal Caster in this HGW. While he is still broken, as a normal Caster, it isn't an auto-win button like half the people on this thread are making it out to be.

>Lancer
>That actually uses a fucking Lance
The world is ending I guess.

Even as a normal assassin, King Hassan's attacks has his instant-kill thing, so I doubt Solomon would be that much weakened either.

>Good ol Lancy snapped her skull in two in one of his butthurt episodes. The girl wasn't even trying to fight back then.
Where's this stated?

Does anyone else notice there is a plothole in the original series?

In the UBW route, Archer uses caladbolg against Berserker in the cemetry fight, revealing that he does remember his NP (or so everyone else thinks, because it has the power of a NP).

Yet, Rin never questions Archer about it and seems to think that Archer still hasnt regained his memories all the way till the big reveal. This is never addressed AFAIK.

>Like Divine Spirits, they have a different spirit foundation, they have a "Superior Saint Graph" in comparison to normal Heroic Spirits. You can summon them with lesser containers, as you do with Divine Spirits and Pseudo Servants. The containers depend on the capacity of the summoning system, the Master compatibility and other stuff (including the terrain bonuses and fame ones). Of course normally you cannot fucking summon Solomon or any of the Seven, like you can't summon gods usually.
Do you have anywhere I can read about the superior saint graphs and such? It's the first time I'm hearing about it

We see his Master having zero injuries or weariness, and neither did he (in his flashback). So was pretty ez to win.

Real life legend and fate lore.

During Guinivere's execution, Lancelot rushed in and murdered a few unsuspecting Knights. Gareth included.

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Shimosa mentions them (because of Douman). Lostbelt 3 brings them up again.

Her voice line in FGO
>"Yes, I was killed by Sir Lancelot in my past life. I didn't really understand what happened on that day, I suppose. Seeing Sir Lancelot's stature as he rushed to save Queen Guinevere was... I was... no. It's my regret. No matter what I do, there's no way I could stop the me of that day, nor do I have the words to say. The past where his hand split my cranium will never change. In his eyes... I was never there, was I? I understand that! There's no reason for me to mope around about it! Now that I've been summoned in my lance wielding days, I will fight will all I have, same as I always have been! I'll do my best!"
"That sinister look...ah...much like the day you killed me. Lancelot-sama? Even now, my voice will not reach you, will it?"

You do know none of these Kings of LBs were servants in their LB right? Every single one of them were still alive during their LB, so they would obviously BTFO a servant Gil. As servants, they would probably lose to Gil.

Why is Lancelot such a fag holy shit.

Qin's NP range is billion of targets. Enema Delish is just a thousand or so.
So I doubt it.

Lancelot is just a horrible person.

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So was Gil in most of Babylonia. You do know even if nerfed the LB Kings are extremely powerful and godlike?

Guess I'll have to wait then

Skadi bros...

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Ashiya Douman is basically the non official Grand Alter Ego.

I am just believing Nasu's word that Gil is the strongest servant. The number of targets doesn't effect how strong a NP is besides saying it could probably take down a lot of fodders.

Not sure why you are talking about Gil being alive in Babylonia when we are talking about them as servants, but okay. I still think that unless Nasu stated otherwise, Gil is the strongest servant. The LB Kings are probably stronger alive, but it doesn't effect how strong they are as a servant in our current discussion.

Basically, Servants manifest with a saint graph, and those have a set amount of maximum power.
Divine spirits and Grand Servants just have insanely powerful saint graphs.

>I am just believing Nasu's word that Gil is the strongest servant
That was retconned tho. Mat's IV call him "one of the strongest" Servants. No longer the strongest and all this was before Grand Servants and High Servants (the AI shit from Mooncell) and Lostbelt Kings got introduced.

But don't Grand Servants lose that powerful SG when not summoned by the world, eg regular servants?

wtf I hate Lancelot now.

If that is true, then I agree it is possible for Grand servants and LB Kings as normal servants to be stronger than Gil

Ivanbros...

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If you check the replies chain, is someone saying Solomon as Servant would be stronger than Gil while weaker as Heroic Spirit when the actual fact is opposite. If Waver were to summon Solomon (assuming is possible) he'll be weaker than Gil summoned by Ilya for example. Servants container depend on Master.

The Grand Servants are the 'seven strongest *heroic spirits*' on description and they possess "superior saint graphs."

Add the Hello Kitty/Sanrio verson there.

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Ivan seems like a hasty job they turned a NPC to a Servant at last moment.

Yes, but they are still powerful as fuck. King Hassan as a normal assassin still has his instant-kill-on-hit passive.

Basically yes. If they're not summoned in their Grand container, they're on the level of ordinary servants, but anyone who can fit the Grand title to begin with is going to be exceptional even as a servant, Solomon is basically unstoppable just with his rings alone. But Solomon as an ordinary Caster couldn't just suddenly spring Ars Almadel Salomonis or summon all 72 demon gods at once or anything, he just doesn't have the potency for that.

It also depends on the Master too. Marisbury is exceptional, which people are forgetting. Everyone forgets that the Master is EXTREMELY important.

>I am just believing Nasu's word that Gil is the strongest servant.

Nasu said that Gil is the strongest servant in FSN and Zero.

>Solomon is basically unstoppable just with his rings alone.
Worth noting that he only had 1 of his rings when he was fighting in the Grail War.

We don't know how many rings he had materialized as Servant actually, because he died with the 9. Before he lost his Servant powers and only the one used as catelyst remain.

A single ring undoes his wish to Grail, though. That's bullshit tier.

All this talk of Solomon is pretty nice.

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Was Soloman's arc kino?

Sieg says hi

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9 rings are on his corpse.

He has the 1 that was the catalyst.

>Deadbeat father
>Manwhore
>Murderer of innocents
Damn, no wonder Galahad hates his dad so much.

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I love the soundtrack during that scene so fucking much. Also Marisbilly's eyes is 10/10

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It would've been had Fou and Mash were permanent.

Are you ready for your Souls-like Fate game?

ryokutya2089.com/archives/22762
>On dream collaborations: “I’d definitely like to do one with Dark Souls, Bloodborne, or Sekiro. Actually, how about dreaming of a collaboration with FromSoftware as a whole? For shame, Kinoko!”

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I'd get ready for a big wave of quartiaries.

This so much. Saber under Shirou and Saber under Rin were practically different Servants as far as combat performance was concerned and Rin wasn't even an outstanding Master or anything. She just wasn't an amateur like Shirou was. Solomon under the wrong Master might not have won the war at all.

The soundtrack for this whole episode was on point. That music when Mashu was running towards Guda in the corridor was 10/10 too.

And? I have no idea why you think means anything. None of the hero's nps are anything but manifestation of them. That's why they get limited by summoned.

Or do you think Diarmuid lost one of his spears forever?

Bro, using that logic, none of the Servants get nps because they lost them or stayed with their corpses.

The reason why Solomon would have nine rings instead of ten when he's summoned, because there's a legend about him losing one ring (in Fate). Same why King Arthur doesn't have Avalon, because he lost the seathe as an important legend.

Cu meanwhile did lose Gae Bolg but still has it because there's no improtant legend about it.

Marisbury is 10/10.

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Avalon is not part of Artoria's servant kit though.
It's a relic she can use as a noble phantasm but she has to find it in whatever time she is summoned into.

>I am just believing Nasu's word that Gil is the strongest servant.
I believe he specified it was from among the F/Z and F/SN Servants or something because otherwise it doesn't mesh with some of the newer lore he's introduced. Lostbelt Kings are at least on par with Gil and the Grands straight up have superior saint graphs although Gil might be the strongest if he becomes a Grand Servant himself.

She wouldn't have Avalon even if she became a HS because part of her legend is her losing it and dying. Regular Artoria didn't have it on her when she made the contract with the world.

>missing the point of Solomon's corpse
Goetia is literally using his corpse and the 9 rings on it to do the incineration of human history.

It's completely different because Avalon is a conceptual weapon and there's a legend written about King Arthur losing it. While Solomon (normal) active skill has "Solomon Rings EX" as matter of fact.

It's more likely he was summoned with nine rings. Not the original rings but the manifestation of the rings like happens to every single Servant. Noble Phantasms are just legends and feats crystallized. You know like Gil has a copy of the Key of the Gate of Babylon in Strange fake (that's how he controls the gate), and throws out the original Key which is nabbed by Ishtar later who overtakes his Gate of Babylon.

Which has nothing to do about how he would manifest as Servant you retard. The Key of the Gate of Babylon was used as catalyst to summon Gil in Strange Fake and he still has it (otherwise he can't open the fucking Gate). The Noble Phantasms aren't the ACTUAL original weapons, but a record of them.

Artoria was summoned in her living form in Zero and Stay Night, only able to bring what she had on her. Her servant self should have access to it.

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His way of using the Grail was really smart I'll admit. Most people go in with vague wishes of world peace or reaching the Root but this motherfucker went in with one very realistic wish even the Grail can't twist or corrupt. Just a boat load of money he can use to find Chaldea forever. Kerry wishes he had this level of foresight.

You're missing the point about how a servant's body and equipment are all magical reconstructions of their legend in the form of a familiar.

>Her servant self should have access to it.
No. She literally wouldn't be a servant if she had Avalon. Avalon basically grants immortality so she never would've died in the first place if she had it.

To be fair, the FGO grail isn't corrupted. And both him and Solomon know their exact nature.

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Who are your favorite Master and Servant pairs in the series?

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ryokutya2089.com/archives/22762
Latest interview with Nasu in Famitsu magazine
>“Part 2 will be completed in a way that is comparable to Part 1.”
>“After completion, we have two patterns: the continuation of Part 2, and the second part, which completely ends the Chaldea story and begins a different story.”

Marisbury's gaze is so soft and sultry.

Why do I get the feeling that "comparable to part 1" means Mash is going to die again?

I mean, she never died in the first place. That was the whole deal. She was taken to Avalon, to return in Britain's darkest hour, but that never actually happens so she stays in Avalon forever.

A discussion between Nasu Kinoko and Takeuchi Takashi on Fate/hollow ataraxia and the Fate franchise that in Fate/complete material V Hollow material, which was released in February 2012.

>What is 『Fate』 to TYPE-MOON?

Nasu: 5 years ago we said that "this will not go beyond one product," but even saying TYPE-MOON now is just another word for 『Gundam』. It just keeps changing forms and moving forward. That’s not to say we’re just artificially extending it, of course. 『Fate/EXTRA』 was a good test for us. It was fun to write, and fun to make. If the players also enjoys it then it’s a Win-Win, is it not?

Takeuchi: As a product I do feel like it has grown much more than I expected. Whenever we said that 『Fate』 was over and done with, it would refuse to die. I suppose it’s only natural to love and revere something that you have spent so much time cultivating and being so fulfilled by, and to become so attached to it. I don’t mean to be obsessive, but I do want to treat this with utmost care, as we have done up until this point.

Nasu: This is for us what 『Final Fantasy』 is for Square Enix. On a way smaller scale, of course!

Takeuchi: I know you may sometimes think "Not another 『Fate』!" but even "another" 『Fate』 game wouldn’t be 『Fate』 at all.

Nasu: We plan to our utmost into every 『Fate』 so that the players who have stuck it out with us so far love it just the same. If we can just do that the fans will still be with us even as they say "Ah, its 『Fate』 again."

Takeuchi: 『Fate』 is really interesting isn’t it? We have the room to think about new possibilities. We will not make a direct sequel, but we’ll go for anything that seems interesting.

Nasu: The 『Fate』 I want to make now is that one, 『Fate Musou』. (laughs)

Takeuchi: All in all, I’m happy that this book came out to bring TYPE-MOON circle prior to the release of 『Mahoutsukai no Yoru』.

The key he's summoned with is a spare key he never uses it, he said it himself. That aside he still probably has it in GoB.

Probably means it's going to be a group raid event with a gooey pile of fanservice.
If they take it very literally we'll be cutting down millions of alien trees while the alien god makes his descent.

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You can easily corrupt any wish. Wish for money? Everyone else dies, so all the money belongs to you. Or your relative dies and you get the insurance payout.

>“The Chaldean servant who lost his life on the main story will not appear in the main story after that.”

Why does he looks exactly like Solomon? Did Solomon copy his appearance?

>Why you think is the same one?
Because Zelretch observing timelines gives him power over which progress forward and which don't, at any given time. If there are 100 Zelretches in 100 different worlds that all observe 100 different versions of the same event, we have a contradiction. For example, the conversation Zelretch has with Alcatraz where he decides to observe Ayaka because he feels she has the best chance at stopping the Grail War. Now say that Zelretch2.0 in another timeline decides to observe, say, Flat. Ayaka stops the war, Flat doesn't. The whole purpose of this decision was to choose an observer that would guarantee recording that the war war stopped. Since we now have two contradictory results, the effort has been defeated. This sort of thinking only works if there is ONE Zelretch who can pick and choose from all timelines as he pleases to exercise this authority.

>The only thing the Grail can grant is a path to the Third,
It cannot grant this. The path to the Third was closed from the moment the original 3rd Magician discovered it. That pathway to the Root is shut, nobody else can walk it. Therefore the Grail is incapable of handing out the 3rd.

Where is NA translatino right now? Did it reach "Lovecraft part" of story?

>We know what Gil is like when he's serious
Happy?

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Solomon as a servant is nowhere near as strong as he was when he was alive. Even his grand container wouldn't be a match vs his living self.

We're currently on EoR2, and I think Lovecraft is EoR4.

The multi-dimensional refraction phenomena that Kojiro uses literally lets him be in 3 places at once, which is a "piece" of the 2nd magic. And that is actually described as the ability to open wormholes in space and interact with shit on the other side of them.

>Lost belt kings who are on the same class as Beasts would definitely btfo gil!!!11!
no shit

No, you idiots. This isn't like Cu or Heracles. Solomon canonically has only one ring because Goetia has the others. He was summoned as a a servant to Fuyuki so we know for a fact his kit is limited. He can't even summon demon gods, he only has the skill for it.

You're not precisely wrong but not precisely right either. The Einzberns reversed the order. The Great Grail bores open a hole to the root with pure magical power, so that they can acquire the third magic from the other side. So it does grant the third, but rather than finding the way through skill, grace, and the unique method that leads there, it's through the biggest magical drill the world has ever seen.
Logically you should be able to gain any desire once you pass through the gate and read from the Akashic Records, but that goes to the usual "once you go in, nobody comes back" problem.

>Good ol Lancy snapped her skull in two
Based. Doujins when?

Sure. Because LB Kings are not servants. Their servant vessels are all nerfed. Of course, Arjuna stomps regardless. At full power, Qin, Arjuna, Full power Skadi definitely beat Gil. Ivan is the only one with doubt.

Solomon has only one real, physical ring that Marisbilly handed to him, but there's no reason he'd lack the other 9 as noble phantasms.

>Rin wasn't even an outstanding Master
What? She has excellent magic circuits and her knowledge of magic is great too. She even goes down as one of the top 100 magi in the clock tower.

Not that user, but her first action as a master was wasting a CS on mundane things.

Even if he has all 10 rings he wouldn't be able to use them under the a regular servant container.

>so that they can acquire the third magic from the other side.
As I recall the Grail was made with Justeaze at its core, who could already use the 3rd. So it's not like their wish was "please give us the 3rd Magic," it was more like "Please [Justeaze] use the Third on everyone in the world." And Justeaze, who already "knows" how to do it, would do it. The Grail is just a means of giving her the necessary mana to do so, because her body was frail and incapable of casting HF on all the human race like they wanted.

Thats only in the case with sarcastic servants like EMIYA. If rin had solomon instead that would have never happened.

She handled that badly as a master, that's all I'm saying.

Can tryhard Gilgamesh beat Buddha?

Depends on Nasu's mood. If he has some bullshit noble phantasm to deflect Amita Amitabha, sure. He probably has a Chakravartin of his own anyway.
It'd look like a battle out of some mech anime though.

Otherwise he gets hit by ENLIGHTENMENT BEAM and loses.

No
Buddhawank > Gil
There’s a reason his only appearance in LE is to win and then fuck off without getting BTFO’d

His daughter is better
(yes I'm pushing this theory around)

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>It'd look like a battle out of some mech anime
Exactly my thoughts, kek

Servants and masters are known to look alike

Rin wears red and crosses, Archer wears red and crosses
Rider is long purple hair, Sakura is long purple hair

Except mats state he doesn't have them? Except it's a plot point in time temple that there is only one ring on his fingers while Goetia has the other 9 for a complete set?

and all the rest look nothing alike

Haha, not a chance.>Depends on Nasu's mood. If he has some bullshit noble phantasm to deflect Amita Amitabha, sure. He probably has a Chakravartin of his own anyway.
No reason why he would have a God's NP. He has primarily human intelligence

Shirou is blue, Saber is blue
Zouken is grubby and rotting looking, Asassin is grubby and bony looking

They all look exactly alike

>people thought sony would let them kill fgo

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>No reason why he would have a God's NP. He has primarily human intelligence
He has Vajra and Vimana in there.

Nah it is ending, Nasu said he's stepping away after. Nasu comopares the ending to Danganronpa ending, and Undertale ending. Saying "You obtain the good ending, but if you keep going beyond that you get the evil ending" or some shit.

The only ones writing the game after he leaves are his backup writers.

that was last year, this is a new interview

Nasu is still an undertale fag, so he's making the game into undertale.

Buddha is not "really" a god. He doesn't even have Divinity (and in fact Divinity is one of the countermeasures against him, he is weak to other paths towards salvation). He is simply a nature that is similar to gods.

would Jesus servant have EX divinity?

He didn't compare it to Undertale directly. He said he wanted to do something with it that would be "like" the Genocide route, i.e. something incredibly sudden and shocking and possibly irreversible.

Nope. If you have everything. You don’t relly go out to look for something else. You just sit around and do nothing as Sloth takes over.

>Buddha is not "really" a god.
Boddhisattva are Gods, stated outright in materials. Tiamat is a God too, but none of her skills depict divinity. The point is, none of Buddha's powers are tangible constructs belonging to or made by humans

Probably Divine Core EX.

>well kotomine is male and gilgamesh is male, they have so much in common!!
Youre nitpicking so much lol

Solomon already looked like that bro. He's probably a descendant,

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No such thing. Male gods just get divinity like Arjuna who has Divinity EX. Goddess divine core is for goddesses.

They aren't in the same class as Beasts.

would solomon stay my friend after he got incarnated?

You're right. They're in the same class as grands.

Except Arjuna, who is just straight up Beast-tier or beyond.

>She even goes down as one of the top 100 magi in the clock tower.
This statement was made when we didn't even have 10 Clocktower characters.

>They're in the same class as grands.
No, only Qin has a Superior Saint Graph.

>Except Arjuna, who is just straight up Beast-tier or beyond.
Arjuna himself wasn't the problem, it was the tree he was using. He's powerful but not as much as a Beast.

>projecting

No, you don't get the differences between the skills. Divine Core means they were a god from birth, that at no point were their mind or soul human like those with Divinity. Arjuna was born human, no amount of godhood can give him a divine core. It has nothing at all to do with gender, we just don't have any male gods yet.
That said, Jesus is in a unique superposition of being completely divine and completely mortal so he'd almost certainly get a unique skillset to him alone.

Isn't Solomon 178cm? I refuse to believe Moneybill is shorter than him.

>No, only Qin has a Superior Saint Graph.
Which is what grands are. They are defined by that saint graph, which is why King Hassan gets booted down to normal servant tier after he exchanges his to give Tiamat CoD
>Arjuna himself wasn't the problem, it was the tree he was using. He's powerful but not as much as a Beast.
You haven't played the order, so I know you're quoting misinformation. Arjuna is the problem because he is invincible. His divinity is so ridiculous that he can't be interfered with and you need to weaken the worship he gets while buffing Karna to a close enough level with Surya, Shiva and Vishnu.
> but not as much as a Beast.
Fucker can destroy and remake the planet whenever he wants. What are you smoking? Even Surtr was beast-tier for being a planetary threat. That's why the entire world-line was culled.

>No, only Qin has a Superior Saint Graph.
No retard. Sherlock says he'd be a grand in panhistory, but was a ruler.

not that guy but he was modified in the lostbelt right?
Or would regular qin be a top tier monster?

>That's why the entire world-line was culled.
They were culled, when a Beast is active, they can't be culled, you idiot. These shitters aren't in their level when they are cut from history and forgotten if wasn't about the trees, they would cease to exist.

It's the trees that are 99% likely to be Beast related what would have made Arjuna Alter and Surtr-Fenrir a real threat toward the human order. Otherwise, they are ignored.

All LB kings are different compared to their normal version in panhistory (our history). Our Ivan isn't a monster with a giant hole in the middle, our Skadi was not buffed by all the Norse gods, etc.

He said he had a Superior Saint Graphs similar to a Grand Servant but he's a Ruler. Anyway, no the normal Qin can't be as powerful because he didn't live over 2k years and ruled the world among other shit.

Both Arjuna Alter and Surtr were erased from panhistory, user. Nobody even needed a special force to deal with them. Their survival was due to someone allowing those lostbelts to continue but it wasn't their influence which let this happen.

When a Beast attacks, you need to defeat it because the system cannot. Only after they are defeated, you might recover from the damage they cause (or not completely as with Goetia whose actions weakened the human Order as whole even after you solved the incineration).

Restarting the planet surface isn't impressive when you do it cut off from the system that can stop you, a system you didn't win against either because you got cut off. You're not addressing how Beasts fuck with the very thing that can erase any trace of Arjuna and his world.

>Both Arjuna Alter and Surtr were erased from panhistory, user.
This has nothing to do with power. It's that beast have anti-human order capabilities. It's compatibility, not strnegth.

He can have a God's NP and other Divine Constructs. He just has to acquire them personally.

>They were culled, when a Beast is active, they can't be culled, you idiot.
Because they're anti-human order, retard. It's not about power and irrelevant if a beast were to fight Arjuna as no human factor will come into play.
>Muh trees
Are fucking shit that need to be protected and you destroy all of them once the big dick King is gone or in LB3's case. The King helps you wipe it out, even after it's fully grown and merged with something simialr to a TA.
>Restarting the planet surface
>Destroying and remaking a planet isn't impressive
Go to sleep.

>Restarting the planet surface isn't impressive when you do it cut off from the system that can stop you, a system you didn't win against either because you got cut off. You're not addressing how Beasts fuck with the very thing that can erase any trace of Arjuna and his world.
What? Not him but you have this backwards. Arjuna's lost belt is a removed timeline BECAUSE he fucked up humanity by resetting the planet and stagnating humanity afterwards. Meaning the CF/Human order while it was around, failed to stop this guy, so it just abandoned the world line and didn't waste the effort keeping it around.

Doesn't really matter, the timeline was removed because the human order system thought so. The same system Goetia btfo and any Beast would be able to do the same if they had braincells.

Destroying humanity isn't a big deal, a lot of things can do it. A rock hitting the planet and causing that glacial age again can do the same trick. The human order simply gets the rid of it without much issue, same as Arjuna Alter's version of the world. Beasts are dangerous not just because they can fuck with humanity but they can fuck with the human order so you need to beat them to undo their fuckery.

You know each Beast can in fact destroy humanity? Goetia did across time and space, Tiamat was going to do it once she grew, Kiara too and so would Kama (in her way). Literally what you're arguing? The difference is that they could do that AND they can fuck with the system.

fgo is shit, go commit rope faggot.

>Destroying and remaking a planet isn't impressive
He didn't do that. He was simply changing the texture of the surface of the planet, which, no, it's not that big deal because the texture answered to him, since it was in the Ages of Gods and he was the only fucking God.

He remade the world not the planet. That's why the van was safe in imaginary numbers.

>Otherwise he gets hit by ENLIGHTENMENT BEAM and loses.
Pretty much this. If Titty Monks Invulnerable NP is just her reverting back to Bodhisattva status then actual Buddha is probably rocking some superior faggotry.

That's still a matter of compatibility rather than power, though.
Fou isn't that special if you're not a primate. Still has the "strength = you+1" factor but that's not terrifying. Tiamat's all defense, not really offense. A sufficiently prepared battle force would just need to repel mud and lahmu constantly (and infinitely since she will never die). Granted it would take something like Camelot to manage that, considering even Uruk fell.

>Doesn't really matter, the timeline was removed because the human order system thought so
How retarded are you? Does it matter how dangerous a corrosive, is you carve out the ground it touches before it reaches you? That's what the human order does to these timelines. It doesn't fight the source of the corruption. It just cuts off the branches. It's operating on a different level of existence, not power.

Beasts are the cancer of humanity, born of humanity. They are specifically designed to fuck over the human order. This is likes saying because a servant with anti-divine kills a dude with divinity, it means they're as strong as them. How do you not understand how compatibility works in this setting?

No retards. It was the planet. Because that is what was culled. What he remakes in LB4 is a lostbelt, which isn't the entire planet, but a section of it encroaching on proper history. Qin explains that the storm has cut him off from the planet he ruled, and is now only ruling a fraction of his territory. Arjuna was resetting the planet for millennia
.
>he was the only fucking God.
Based retard. There are more Gods than just the Indian Pantheon you know? More importantly it is about power. Sherlock said Maha Pralaya was too powerful to be designated a noble phantasm. He didn't even say that about Goetia's Ars Almadel Salomonis

>You know each Beast can in fact destroy humanity?
Think he meant, destroy the world, not humanity itself. Tiamat can't do this, she's defensively oriented. Kiara isn't about power, but would merge into the world. Only Goetia has the raw power to burn the planet's surface.

>Because that is what was culled.
What is culled is just a timeline, the planet is always the same planet. It's the surface not the celestial body.

I have no patience to explain to a child. If it had been the planet the imaginary number would have been fucked because is part of the planet but it was not. It was the SURFACE OF THE PLANET or texture and world. Do you know how culled timelines work at all?

>What is culled is just a timeline
With that planet's history. What is your point
>I have no patience to explain to a child.
Then fuck off.

If the planet was affected, then it would be experienced in the blank earth - That is the only planet that exists. Lostbelts are textures to the planet, records of history, but not celestial bodies. Nasu is weird like that.
So far the only enemy who would have fucked up the planet (as the Celestial Body) was Goetia, but the new bad guy might too.

>By the power of my command spell, I want Solomon to have his magic circuits filled with mana
Wow, that was hard
Lile, even Shirou does that in HA

>Lostbelts are textures to the planet,
The whole point of the post is that Arjuna's timeline was the actual world before it became culled and a lostbelt. The reason a timeline gets culled in the first place is that something has happened to that world that makes it no longer worth keeping and the CF could not stop it. Arjuna's resets is the source of the problem, the result was humanity being too peaceful and stagnating. His timeline got cut off because the CF could not do anything to him. Now it became a lostbelt, on the texture of panhistory but only a select portion of the planet. We are not discussing the same things at all. Go back to SIN and read what Qin said about his territory and his space wall.

Even our world is just a texture, that's the entire point of Ea's ultimate ability to tear away the texture of the world and show the real face of the planet.

Our world is just a concept printed over a burning ball of magma and death.

You don't understand what the 'world' is, all those events take place on the same planet but the records got simply erased. It's not that an entire planet vanished, but part of the records of a planet. None of this takes place on another celestial body, but one celestial body houses these alternatives. Arjuna Alter was not doing anything that could affect the celestial body, but he could have done something that could if he harnessed the tree power. That was what Surtr was aiming for as well.

Pretty sad that Temple of Time will not be animated

That's what I said? Lostbelts are just erased (saved) records that are trying to paint on the blank planet that rejected them. But they don't come from a different celestial body. While for example Goetia was indeed plotting to take the energy making our Earth to make his own planet.

Anonymous, you're not getting his perspective. He's saying "in the timeline before being severed and becoming a lostbelt, he was doing this to the whole world". That has no relationship to the alien trees or the events of LB4 itself. He means while it was still a part of human history and therefore a legitimate timeline (albeit set from panhistory), up to the point it gets pruned.
In other words, within the context of those records that were erased.

What does the 4th magic do?

I did understand him. I said that world and the planet are two different things.

Yikes. That's not a Lostbelt. First, what you need to do is dismiss any idea of the surface/texture for now, because it's confusing you. Start with the beginning. At some point in history, something went down, be it an ice age, a fire titan, an autistic chinaman or edgy god. Something happened and the timeline gets cut off. Cut off what? Think of Fate Earth's universe as a tree, and the timelines are branches. Every is its own planet and it's own history like they would work everywhere else. Some timelines aren't worth keeping around so the branches are cut off to conserve energy. However, those timelines do not disappear or become textures or whatever. They still continue in their own history. Example: Qin still rules his entire planet and experienced all of it. Then we get to the lostbelt, where failed timelines become lostbelts. A year or so ago, the alien god fucked up panhistory. Now these failed timelines are getting hooked onto the main Earth by the trees. But only on specific parts. Example: Qin is SUDDENLY shocked that he somehow lost most of his tetrritory. His space wall which covered the planet, has now be rendered to like 10% of its former stature.

(???:

Indeed. In other words, this entire planet is Qin. Therefore, the next barbarians to threaten us would be those from space, but…)

(My majesty which spans the whole world has been cut off by that impudent little storm.

The world is once more enveloped in the darkness of chaos.

This will not stand. Without my commandments, the masses will once more devolve into a world of chaos and violence.

The peace and harmony Qin has brought to the entire Earth is something that I must regain once more.)

That's where textures come in. It has no bearing on the failed timeline before the alien gods and its trees came into the fold.

>Every is its own planet and it's own history
No, it's not. Who told you this rubbish? There's only one celestial body.

It just works.

So, who do you think took it? My crazy and unlikely theory is that's Marisbilly, he's not the Alien God and he's in fact the Chaldea helper.

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>No, it's not. Who told you this rubbish? There's only one celestial body.
Play Extella. Play grand order. I just gave you direct information from Qin himself who ruled his PLANET in its entirety. You know what. I'll stop myself from making a mistake. You cite where its said lost timelines are textures. Don't give your explanation, give me the source.

So all this shit you guys are talking about is from that gatcha game?
is it worth getting into if I already like most fate works?

t.normal nasu fan

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>While for example Goetia was indeed plotting to take the energy making our Earth to make his own planet.
Goetia's plan has nothing to do with that. Goetia was going to beginning, before world lines. Back to genesis before the planet was created so he would become the god and have domination over everything that would come about after. He was going to the root of the Earth's creation.

I did play both. You're mistaking with thinking you wrap the entire planet (as in history modifying the contents) with the celestial body as whole (including the other side). Your example with Qin highlights your confusion.

There's just One Planet but the multiple events happening in that planet on parallel do happen. Or rather on the World of Man's Domain instead of just earth alone (that means Solar System).

>give me the source.
What is your source about multiple celestial bodies? In fact the lostbelt invasion didn't come from outside space but within the atmosphere of Earth.

>What is your source
Won't back his shit up. Yeah okay, we're done here.

Chaldea mememan is an expert in medicine, Marisbury isn't.

Won't back what? The truth? You have given me no source and ignore that the lostbelts didn't come from nowhere but the planet itself. That's in the prologue and LB1.

>In fact the lostbelt invasion
The lostbelt invasion is a result of the alien trees. The purpose and mechanism upon which they function is a complete unknown in the story and has mystified Sherlock and Vinci. Don't spread misinformation on a concept that has barely been expounded on in-game.

>all this talk about magic and roots
>have no idea what you're all talking about
am I the ideal fgo protagonist?

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>Back to genesis before the planet was created so he would become the god and have domination over everything that would come about after.
He was going to take the energy before the planet was made to make his own planet based on himself. It's in the fucking game. It wouldn't be earth but Goetialand.

>He killed Kotomine who was still on his prime (not zombie).
what

Reminder that Strange Fake might be giving us a new Servant version of Gilgamesh, possibly Ruler Gilgamesh.
He's about to die, but weird shit is happening because Narita's lol true false war shenanigans.

>alien trees
You honestly believe that huh.

>You have given me no source
I gave you a direct example of Qin experiencing his history even after it was cut off the planet. So much that he built a space wall leaving extending past the planet itself.

Fuck the moon cell on the moon experiences separate timelines as unique. Earth textures would be utterly irrelevant here.

>Muh textures
Back that shit up with proof, because it's a hell of a lot more convoluted than the standard assumption of how timelines work.

only if you know that people die when they are killed also

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but what if he's right, but not correct?

Kotomine was one of the Masters in the Fuyuki War in FGO. Marisbury killed him and destroyed his body according to part 2.

Nasu said FSN Kotomine is weaker because he has a mud heart that fucks with his mana flow and is basically zombie like in a way.

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what is this terminology? i'm a quaternary I only consume FATE through Yea Forums-shitposts

>He was going to take the energy before the planet was made to make his own planet based on himself. It's in the fucking game. It wouldn't be earth but Goetialand.
Jesus Christ, no. You have the order completely wrong. The energy was already possessed. Goetia stole energy from history to get passed time barriers all the way to the origin. Now he would BE the origin. It has nothing to do with energy once he's already there.

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>Fuck the moon cell on the moon experiences separate timelines as unique
Not really, man's domain embodies the whole solar system.

You gave me a quote yes, but so what? it doesn't mean it affects the celestial body just the surface. Does it say anything about the Other side of the World? No?

Now shut up.

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>Kotomine was one of the Masters in the Fuyuki War in FGO. Marisbury killed him and destroyed his body according to part 2.
Where is this info at, precisely?
>Nasu said FSN Kotomine is weaker because he has a mud heart that fucks with his mana flow and is basically zombie like in a way.
I think it's more because he's just a fucking dick who has been fucking about for 10 years after F/Z and no longer cares about getting stronger, but yeah, why not.

>Where is this info at, precisely?
Holmes. LB2 intro. He's surprised Kotomine (Rasputin) is around because Kotomine Kirei was killed and destroyed by Marisbury Animusphere and the priest confirms that indeed happened in 2004.

>I think it's more because he's just a fucking dick who has been fucking about for 10 years after F/Z and no longer cares about getting stronger, but yeah, why not.
It's because he's a walking corpse.

>lose zealotry
>acquire bliss and joy
>become weak
What did Gilgamesh mean by this?

I take that as yes and yes

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So, which timeline is Rasputin Kotomine from, I wonder?

>Not really, man's domain embodies the whole solar system.
Which has nothing to do with the moon cell, as it does not obey the textures of the Earth.

why did we stop him xactly?

Muh Mashu.

The pruning system affects Mooncell, so yes, it has to do with it because it works under the order.

We only know that is '''''mysterious'''' the Fuyuki shit and Marisbury is always under mysterious treatment.

I hope he's Saber Gilgamesh or something instead, the conditions don't seem right for a Ruler to emerge since at least half of one True HGW (I assume the Fake wouldn't get one) would need to be aligned. Sure there's probably some NP-fuckery, Enkidu fuckery or Dumas fuckery that might do it to Gil's SG but IMO it would feel lazy and unearned if it didn't happen without the correct conditions anyway. If half the servants of the True war aligned, Gil got changed into a fake Saber and thus legitimized the Fake war and then those conditions would turn it into a GHGW it would be neat.

I can't think a way for kotomine even get under this guy skin. Assuming he wasn't still in denial about his pleasure, Marisbury is such an unreadable dude.

>DA (Dead Apostles)
Vampires, or anti-humans. Created as a food source for True Ancestors (planets) but some are created through magecraft or other means like in F/Z.
>DAA (Dead Apostle Ancestors)
An organization of 27 (28) of the most powerful DAs.

Dead Apostles can't DAA-tier powerlevels in Fate worlds which the franchise mostly focuses on.

>FGO anime
>expected /alter/ shitpostign central
>it's actually lore discussion
How?

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the nasuverse actually has pretty interesting lore once you get past the waifufagging, who knew

To be fair right now the events that are transpiring are 100% the Epic of Gilgamesh. The only difference is that Gil is the one dying instead of Enkidu.
Most of the chatter about Ruler Gil came from Richard actually identifying Gilgamesh as Ruler until Gil told him he isn't, and can't be because he doesn't have the disposition of impartiality, but Richard said he has the image of one. There was also talk in either the second or third volume about it being strange that a Ruler class hasn't shown up. Plus Watcher has made it apparent that not all the True Servants have manifested(with the obvious one being True Lancer who is still very much a living boy.)
It all fits Narita's usually set up though. If Narita follows his usual pattern then Gil will "die" then Enkidu will fight, the chains will be broken, and Gil will be resummoned through Enkidu's death.
All the Fakes have a common theme of wanting to become true, or are shadows of the truth, except for Gilgamesh.

it's all because of Case Files, it got the lore discussions going again and the old fatefags showed up. I expect it to go to shit when it actually airs though.

He's got his boyfriend stolen by a wholesome family.

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It's Babylonia with a bunch of weird lore shit implications across the board. Having Case Files at the same time, plus translations of the current F/SF novel about to be finished is a trifecta of interesting shit to discuss.

Camelot next year will be when everything goes to shit because titty goddess and dumb mashu.

>translations of the current F/SF novel about to be finished
This is great.
>Camelot next year will be when everything goes to shit because titty goddess and dumb mashu.
Camelot is movie so it's barely matters

I could see Gil legitimately classifying for Ruler with a small attitude adjustment. He doesn't give a shit about acquiring the Grail, everyone is equally a mongrel to him so no preference (apart from Enkidu, so he'd have to die) and he already is kind of an arbitrator and adjudicator, at least he says he acts like it. The one big thing in the way is the whole preservation of the AoG Mystery. While it doesn't seem like it should show up in SF (you never know) but Gil seems fairly against Mystery in general. Not outright trying to eradicate it, but his desire of seeing humanity leave Earth to the stars necessitates the death of Mystery.

>To be fair right now the events that are transpiring are 100% the Epic of Gilgamesh. The only difference is that Gil is the one dying instead of Enkidu.
Most of the players are present but the events differ so far.
>Gil & Enkidu
They had their grand battle when meeting each other, but now Gil is dying.
>obstacles
Humbaba and Gugalanna are still going around, and both are supposed to be dead before any of the main characters die.
>Ishtar
Similar role as in the Epic
>Immortality
Could the Chekhov's Potion of Youth apply here?
How would it all play out?

Even one exception prevents all possibility for Ruler. Unless you could make Gilgamesh not care about Enkidu, he doesn't fit.

>, plus translations of the current F/SF novel
it's only about a third of the way

Since this became a lore discussion anyway, are Grand vessels reserved for only 7 main classes or of-shot bullshit like gunner\boxer or unsuals like ruler\avenger\foreigner can theoreticly qulify?

On the other hand, what servant you are excited to show up, but know he\she gonna be shit? Because, fuck I wann see Koschei as a Rapey undying punch wizard, but probably not gonna happen.

They already said Camelot is going to be about Bedi as MC, so have faith. The Lion King doesn't show her tits either.

If Enkidu dies that restriction goes away.
>Even one exception prevents all possibility for Ruler
Except when the Einzberns summoned Amakusa. Sure, it was special conditions with Ruler replacing Berserker and all, but the entire Snowfield ritual is super broken.

7 main classes, there are no Grands for the Extra classes. Some of the Extra classes might theoretically qualify for one of the 7 regular classes and thus for Grand though.

Only the seven. Qin Shi Huangdi has a superior saint graph that compares to Grands in scope and power, but he's not "Grand Ruler".

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Grand classes are their very own classes. Instead of thinking of a Grand Caster as an upgrade for a Caster, think of it as an outlier class like Avenger/Ruler/etc.

Amakusa treats everyone equally as someone to be saved.

Pruning system affects it. Textures don't. You've conflated that with man's sensory perception.

But he desires the Grail, which is a no-no.

Like I said if Narita follows his usual patterns then Gil is going to die and be put in a sort of limbo, then Enkidu will die, then Gilgamesh will come back. Narita could go in the opposite direction though and have Enkidu represent man itself and continue on.

That only came about after his summoning, he didn't at the time he was summoned.

There are two Servants who have been described as roughly Grand Extra Classes: Emissary Ashiya Douman (Alter Ego) and Lostbelt Qin Shi huang (Ruler).

And by the way, Douman (As Shikinami of himself) fucked Arjuna Alter and is the instigator of the LB4 bullshit.

Type Venus implied the "destroyed Types" will respawn again.

It was basically a draw at the end of Notes with even more damage done to the Earth. A continent even disappeared and now Earth has a permanent red sky 24/7. No more blue sky.

There is no permanent way to kill a Type.

Nasu in Complete Materials said Saber is the King that will someday return to Britain.

Saber can't die due to the prophecy and the Arthurian prophecy pretty much states, should Saber return from Avalon to retake the throne, she would establish an everlasting utopia.

destroy the planet, destroy the type

The Solar System is part of Man's Domain in Fate. Why do you bring up non Fate world-building?

Buddha doesn't need to eat but according to Saint Martha, Jesus's enjoys her cooking.

While that works for Arcueid we have no idea if it actually works for Types.
Strange Fake and Grand Order take place in worlds where the human order and ??? are both strong.

Nasu is also prone to retconning shit, or going "lol different world line."

FGO isn't sharing Strange Fake setting. They explained why it was vulnerable (Goetia's incineration) but is still Fate setting and Human Domain is a thing.

Nasu literally described Strange Fake as "FGO-like" in the same dialogue that revealed to us how the Tsukihime/Fate split works. F/GO is a world in the balance, the ??? is strong while the human order is also strong. Anything can happen, rather than it all having been decided.

He never did. He only said that wasn't in Fate setting but an hybrid. Then said that FGO was similar in how it mixes things but didn't explain WHY.

We have an explanation IN game already. FGO is indeed fate, it only became vulnerable when Goetia fucked up history that's WHY it's become a dumpster with everything. Nonetheless Human Domain is a thing in it that's how you detect Foreigners nigga.

He literally did. Guess I gotta post it again to refresh your memory.
>the foundation of Tsukihime's world is one in which "human history has been ??", resulting in the Dead Apostles, who stand in opposition to it, have risen in power, and that's basically the primary difference.
>And so. In regards to a certain character who appears in Tsukihime..... the one who abandoned the Church and ended up being counted among the Twenty-Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors...... well, after a "certain meeting", he ended up becoming an extraordinarily powerful Dead Apostle.
>However, within the world of Fate, that "certain meeting" never occurred so even after becoming a Dead Apostle, he never received a level of power enough to be counted as "one of the Ancestors", and his overall level of mystery suffers a drop in rank as well.
>The discrepency of those circumstances...... Even if the worlds' foundations are the same, the premise may differ and thus the characters may differ as well......
>"But Grandpa, then what about "Fake"? How should I treat that hodgepodge of darkness? I wanna know!"
>"Hohoho. That's a world where "both are possible", oh mighty warrior Mahiro-chan who, upon lifting the ban, reached LV80 within the course of a single day"
>"Both are possible......? So it's like playing with dice where you can get either evens or odds? Then, in other words..."
>"Indeed. Therefore, it is a "world like FGO" where both or neither is a possibility, o Mahiro-chan who possesses both a LV100 Illya and Chloe. You have become a true warrior just as I had expected. However, it's good to practice prudence at times as well."

>>it is a "world like FGO" where both or neither is a possibility

You do realize the entire setting of FGO is about Human History, right? Human history is the foundation of Fate universe and no other work addresses it as much as FGO.

>outdated shit he said years ago
>vs in game explanation and statement of FGO being a "Love letter to human history" stated much later
Hmmmmmmm.

Yeah and it's also about human history getting annihilated and subverted at every turn. That's why it's a world in the balance rather one that's assured. Chaldea has to FIGHT to preserve human history, it's not a world where it's absolutely dominant and needs no assistance.

I remember Narita tweeting once that Enkidu can be a villain (I think it was during the summer event with Hannibal Enkidu) but deleted it afterwards. It would be interesting to see it.

>two short years makes something outdated
Weak argument.

I can see it
>no human morality
>powerful like Gil but without the personality defects
>Eresh is scared of him due to his behavior while alive

>Yeah and it's also about human history getting annihilated and subverted at every turn.
Which was explained in CCC event that the inciniration caused that to weaken, but FGO setting is still Fate. The only reason other stuff can breach and reach its timeline is due to that.

Da Vinci wishes it be so, but it ain't ever been so.

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Kingu was basically Enkidu Alter.

>Gilgamesh becomes a Ruler because Enkidu goes evil in F/SF
>gotta kill my friend
I can see it.

And that doesn't really change a thing, because the incineration is literally where F/GO's narrative starts. All that is is trivia.

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>never compliments her beauty
>just ignores her and keeps working when she's in His Room.

The point is that is not the same setting as Strange Shit and Human History Foundation is still the same fucking focus with all the relevant bad guys using it as fuel.

Ivan's at least playable.

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>The point is that is not the same setting as Strange
Never said it was, just had similar principles.
>and Human History Foundation is still the same fucking focus with all the relevant bad guys using it as fuel
Alien God is not human and destroys humanity without love or hate.
Admittedly Nasu's probably gonna have it rip off a mask and be Beast VII but until that actually happens the Alien God has no immediately confirmed connection to humanity.

Because it would involve killing off every single living being who ever lived, lives and will live and replacing it all with a new race of creatures. It's the equivalent of saying "Dude, your race sucks. I'm gonna kill every single one of you and replace you with my own custom-build race". Not one living, dead or unborn human will benefit from it. It's just replacing what's already there with someone else.

Fundamentally, we're opposed to him because we don't want to die. Because he's trying to kill us all.

That still doesn't make any Type still less of a Human Order flunkie as they existed if anything under its subjugation.

Touko and Shiki.

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But if they came from their own timespan where the ??? was dominant while the foundations are weak, then they'd still be of the same scope as in Notes.

>Alien God is not human and destroys humanity without love or hate.
You don't honestly believe the last enemy of "Chaldea story" (which we know will end) is a random literal who entity, do you? Specially when is a mystery and the characters said "It's an alien invasion" as first explanation (aka the one that's always wrong in mysteries).

>Admittedly Nasu's probably gonna have it rip off a mask and be Beast VII but until that actually happens the Alien God has no immediately confirmed connection to humanity.
That's exactly what will happen. That's why Gilgamesh stated it earlier on as '''''''''foreshadowing''''''''''''' but nobody in Chaldea is aware of this shit. And how beasts are called the highest mystery-plot development by Holmes who was frustrated he couldn't solve a case about it yet. Wink.

>But if they came from their own timespan where the ??? was dominant
When exactly? I don't understand what you're saying with this.

I think the actual dynamic between Leo and Gawain works very well.

He was gay for the money man.

Not that user, but I think Alien God could be Crimson Moon Brunestud who is turbo pissed that the Tsukihime timeline ended up getting pruned while the Fate ones got to grow and multiply.

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I'm sure is just Marisbury who used some alien shit to become this "God" (Beast VII). Most LB enemies were ex humans or at least not gods who powered up to keep on the pattern.

It's not gay if it's one's Master user.

Tsuki timelines aren't pruned though.

>Most LB enemies were ex humans or at least not gods who powered up to keep on the pattern.
Yes, Ivan mixed with Gigant ancient Mammoth, Arjuna ate all Hindu gods, Qin did experiments with chink magitech and became a Death Star before making a perfected TA Zehren body.

They weren't pruned. They're a tree in the neighbor's yard that overgrow a bit to brush up against the Fate one for one branch.

That explains the FGO timeline. Its that weird deviation. Also, her dad ended up getting skewered by Artoria Lancer.

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I meant Carnival Phantasm.

It makes sense when you think about it. Humanity is already at the point where it could destroy the planet it lives on and travel to others. ORT is nothing more than the most powerful lifeform of Mercury and a representative of its planet. No single human would ever be able to defeat something like ORT unaided, but all of humanity together? I think they have a shot.

ORT doesn't play by humanity's rules though.

Nasu emphasized Types like ORT don't have human concepts applying to them.

Humanity is good at destroying Earth because they are also her own lifeforms not Mercury's lifeforms.

Still, it would interesting to see Narita's version of it.

>Alter Enkidu seducing Ruler Gil
The doujins are writing themselves.

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So assuming the inevitable end that Zepia sees is the same in all timelines, whatever it is can be averted by summoning servants.

Or does he just not see the same bad end in Fate timelines?

Solomon is literally the greatest magus to ever live. If anyone can find a way to get around a target's magic resistance, it's him. Even if you assume that he somehow could not, he has the 72 Demon Gods as his familiars. Even one of them is enough to be more than a match for most average Heroic Spirits (e.g. not guys like Karna, Arjuna, Artoria, etc), and even the top Heroic Spirits would have a serious problem if they had to deal with several of them at once by themselves.

Also, magic resistance has been stated before as not being unconditional protection. Artoria, for how crazily resistant to magic she is, can still potentially be hurt by spells that focus on killing dragons.

Still need a lot more development though. At the current moment they're no match.

I'll fight the Lostbelts and support her all the way to the end whatever that is. I want Mash to realize her dream. She's the purest character I've ever seen and I wish for her happiness.

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Narita really only has one of two ways to go with an evil Enkidu. Either he wants to destroy the world that functions as the playground of the gods, or he wants to destroy all civilization and return to the world of beasts.

I really hope Narita is going with Ruler Gilgamesh though instead of potentially bringing Grand servants in. There's enough build up for it. We really don't need Grands in F/SF on top of DAAs, Tsuki tier church, the fakers, the trues, avenger, Watcher, Living Lancer, Zelretch, and whatever the fuck Saint Germain is planning with Richard and Ayaka. There's already the implication that Ayaka herself is a fake and is Red Riding Hood because Ayaka from School Life is Waver's student.

I'd ntr you

>So assuming the inevitable end that Zepia sees is the same in all timelines,
Zepia doesn't see that in Fate, idiot. That's why he's not crazy.

Genuinely I don't think Narita would step on Nasu's toes like putting in Grands would.
The man put it on hiatus for babylon to make sure he had Enkidu right as a character and changed True Berserker from edison because of that mentality.

He can't bring in Grands anyway, because Nasu most likely isn't gonna share such spicy details with anyone. The only revealed Grands so far are the Old Man of the Mountain, Solomon and Merlin. Merlin wouldn't get involved, nor would King Hassan unless there was a Beast involved.

Why is burning Fuyuki down so romantic?

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The guy literally asked that, do you have to be rude about it?

I don't think he can use either of the three of them. Merlin's pretty much a NEET and neither Hassan or Solomon get involved unless a Beast is around whetever they realize it or not.

It could be that he does see the same end, but because he's in a timeline with access to heroic spirit summoning, it no longer becomes inevitable.

Mashu is slowly losing it after genociding entire timelines in part 2.

Here's the deal. Zepia saw a bad ending in Tsukihime/Mahoyo (?) timeline but not in those human order related. However, Flauros was convinced there's a future in those timelines and killed himself while not in FGO for whatever reason. These events are to create suspense anyway.

>whatever it is can be averted by summoning servants.
Maybe or has to do with humans leaving the planet in Fate.

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Do you not realize that she's probab;y going to be a Beast by the end of the story? She might even wind up being the last boss-type kouhai that BB memes about.

She's weaker than before, so I doubt it.

I wonder how spooky hassan is going to work out. Richard already confirmed he fought a dead apostle in the Third Crusade alongside Saladin and Hassan, and the location might have been Solomon's Temple.

>and the location might have been Solomon's Temple.
?? Where are you even basing this from?

She's only weaker because she can't use Galahad's powers any more. Coincidentally, this all started happening right after Fou infused her with his power as a Beast to revive her, and the Time Temple outright says that Beast I and Beast VII have some kind of karmic connection. Everyone assumes that Marisbury is going to be VII, but it thematically makes more sense for VII to be Mash because her origins (artificial lifeform created to serve the interests of humanity) are the same as Goetia's.

Also, her Halloween CE.

>Still has two NP buffs to come
>Fou's starting to revert to beast energy.
>We are just systematically going through timelines to kill them off.
>During LB6, Mash fuses with Fou.
>Class changes to Beast (IV), now resists damage from the knight trio.
>Changes into something close to the Dangerous Beast CE
Bravo, Nasu.

Marisbilly did nothing wrong he just wanted to raise children with his waifu(male)

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This.

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>Either he wants to destroy the world that functions as the playground of the gods, or he wants to destroy all civilization and return to the world of beasts.
Both are good reasons, sasuga user.

As for your spoiler, I will agree with the other anons. No Grands in SF, we have all the shit you just listed and it's already a big clusterfuck.

>The man put it on hiatus for babylon to make sure he had Enkidu right as a character and changed True Berserker from edison because of that mentality.
It wasn't so much for Enkidu as for Ishtar. He says so in vol.4 afterword. Nasu told him that she would appear in Babylonia, so he waited to see her. Narita liked her so much, he decided to keep his plan about Ishtar joining SF. I am pretty sure he planned for the major players of the Epic to appear in SF but due to 3 of them being also big characters in Babylonia, he decided to step back and see how FGO handles them.

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lol no

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inb4 Narita pulls some more bullshit references and Spooky Hassan somehow gets smited by King Hassan

I've kicked my ass once, I'll do it again, dammit.

>Marisbilly did nothing wrong
But what did he do, exactly?

Burned Fuyuki, killed the Masters, won the war, got his beloved Servant to wish to be human, and then has him working for him.

for me it's gareth

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>the domain of the 1st magic is "the denial of nothingness"
what does this mean?

VII is probably gonna be related to Chaldea in some way.
Perhaps its Mashu as you said, maybe its Marisbilly.
Or it could be another world's Guda.

>Marisbilly family mantra is all about becoming a god in the void
>Alien God appears in the void and starts fucking the place up
>Beast VII is lurking out there and is supposedly the final boss
hmm how could this be connected?

I'm so tired lads.
I just want Type-Moon to come back.
Please end gacha...
Please do literally anything else, Nasu...

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So how strong is Solomon really in all his different versions? And especially in the saint graph he was summoned by Moneysbill. Could he defeat Gilgamesh? Alcides? Karna? How does he compare to the LostBelt Kings or shit like Surtr and the Gods? I don't understand this whole living/grand/servant kind of wobbly powerscaling that Nasu has going on. Is a servant strongest when he was alive? Or when in the "grand container"?

Mahoyo collab soon. Get ready for Caster Aoko with Blue as her NP.

>Last Encore

>Daybit sem Void tries to kill him
Sem means "without."

The problem is planets are the strongest thing in the setting. The power of gods, various entities and all magecraft originate from the planet, or are part of the planet. Divine Spirits are systems of the planet representing phenomena it gives permission (authorities) for things. Magecraft is done through mages asking the planet to do things for them. It’s only problem is that like the Moon Cell it doesn’t have much of a will itself. Which is where Arcueid/Archtype as its Brain comes in. Considering the other planets have Types they might not have that problem.

Is Type Moon ever going to do another Fate VN? Are we doomed to an endless stream of gacchas and occasional dynasty warriors clone?

Is there even any chance for Type Moon to do an eroge anymore?

They literally will launch a new capsule Servant mobage.

That's still neo-Fateshit, user.
Though I honestly enjoyed it more than most of FGO.

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We don't know.
>Is a servant strongest when he was alive? Or when in the "grand container"?
In Solomon's case, when he was alive, but doesn't mean it's common among Servants.

Wrong. Humanity history > planet. Established by Goetia in part 1 and by the part 2 enemy which is using too humanity history. Even the foundation of Fate is decided by humanity history. And the planet's greatest weapon Excalibur is fucking powered by humanity's hopes and dreams and not by Gaia.

Mahoyo flopped so they're not going to do anymore VNs.

user... “Not in a hundred years” is a common figurative phrase in Japanese. He doesn’t mean we can fight it in literally a century. It means fuck that shit we out.

Goetia was literally using human history as fuel for time travel in order to become the new planet. Kiara was going to become the planet as well after reaching the core.
Human history is naught but a fuel source. Planets get shit done.

That’s just chuuni speak. It’s an anti-Sefar weapon made by the planet that kills aliens. Also it isn’t like Goetia fights the planet with the energy. He uses up the energy of all of human history to go back in time and become the planet.

>Excalibur btfo alien invaders before civilization even began
So when is Heroic Spirit OGG entering the gacha?

Goetia literally said that there's no strongest power and source than humanity. Planetfags need to fuck off from Fate if they don't like it.

>Kiara
Kiara was again empowered by humanity history (eating Servants) and she was going to btfo Gaia. What exactly are you trying to prove by bringing her up?

It was probably a random human that beamed Sefar after the big giant battle between her and Proto-Mars. In the end the wielder of the sword doesn’t matter in that case. Gilgamesh is the first Heroic Spirit either way. Can’t have heroes without a human system and civilization in place either.

>It’s an anti-Sefar weapon made by the planet that kills aliens.
No, it's called the planet's strongest weapon in Garden of Avalon. It's use is inconquesential.

There's no greater power SOURCE. Human history just sits there if you're not using it. It's a reservoir, it has no will of its own. The closest thing, Alayashiki, is easily overcome. Human history is not an entity, it is a river, a tree, a generator.
>Kiara was again empowered by humanity history (eating Servants) and she was going to btfo Gaia. What exactly are you trying to prove by bringing her up?
Her goal was still to become the planet so that she can indulge freely. Her scale as the Moon Cell is greater than her scale as Beast III/R.

He also said nothing in the planet geenrated more power and energy than humanity. The planet is always humanity's bitch, she'll die and humans wil move on the next one. Humanity is a species superior to anything but is still on diapers.

Again the planet is much stronger than things in almost all of Type Moon. The theoretical Golden End Age of Will mankind’s gonna be some ridiculous shit. But humanity can’t kill the planet beyond not recycling right now. Again it isn’t like it fights Kiara or Goetia either. Again, think of it like the Moon Cell. It’s ridiculously powerful but it isn’t a thing that has a personality or will that lets it fight. The planet can call Grands, or even better, bring out Archetype in certain situations. But it won’t do things on its own actively.

The lore and concepts are interesting, but the actual game, the story, and the way it's told are total fucking maximum trash, biggest waste of potential in Type-Moon to this day by far.
Still, it's the only big thing they've done for the last 4 awful years so there's nothing to do but discuss it.

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>There's no greater power SOURCE
And "Nothing in the planet surpasses it." Are you that dumb to think Gaia means anything in Fate universe? That's cute when everything is decided by human history.

>It's a reservoir, it has no will of its own.
Alayashiki does count because humanity unconsciously set how to defend themselves and furthermore, it's confirmed the planet DIES while humans LIVE AND MOVE ON.

Her goal was to be gangraped by heroic spirits. That's beside the point.

Gilgamesh isn't the first heroic spirit because even in Fate, it acknowledges Gil met the Hero of the Flood, Prototype Noah, under the Mountain and that guy was human.

Gil was only the 5th King of Uruk after the Flood. Look up the Sumerian King list.

Gil's achievements are very lacking compared to humanity's first ever architect; the first ever person who invented human language and writing, etc all of them Sumerian Kings that existed before the Flood.

>Again the planet is much stronger than things in almost all of Type Moon.
How? The planet decides absolutely nothing in FATE. Stop using Type Moon as a blanket statement. In FATE everything that matters is due to HUMANITY as it's setting is fucking founded by HUMANITY HISTORY. The ENTIRE universe of Fate setting is bending to humanity history, the planet is another notch on the belt.

>But humanity can’t kill the planet beyond not recycling right now.

Gaia is agonizing in Extra world, and humans will fuck off first to Mooncell and then to other planets. In worlds they were allowed space exploration (unlike Extra), they'll leave without the middleman. Gaia will die though.

>And "Nothing in the planet surpasses it." Are you that dumb to think Gaia means anything in Fate universe? That's cute when everything is decided by human history.
It's apples to oranges. Gaia is at least alive. Human history is a record, not a being.
>Alayashiki does count because humanity unconsciously set how to defend themselves
Alayashiki is a punk who gets dunked on by anyone who knows what they're doing. Counter forces ain't shit.
>and furthermore, it's confirmed the planet DIES while humans LIVE AND MOVE ON.
Yeah, Earth is apparently pretty shit even as far as planets go.
>Her goal was to be gangraped by heroic spirits. That's beside the point.
It's not beside the point, she has to become the planet to get such freedom for indulgence. She can't do it as the SE.RA.PH alone. It's somewhat like Goetia's goal but completely in reverse, for herself and her own desires.

The reason Gilgamesh is Humanity's Oldest King of Heroes is because the Epic of Gilgamesh was the first known epic. The first superhero story. No other hero prior to him had a grand tale weaved about them that survived to modern times. Even the Book of Genesis, which features the very first humans, was only written long AFTER the Epic of Gilgamesh. This is the basis for why Gilgamesh is the King of Heroes.

>Gil's achievements are very lacking compared to humanity's first ever architect; the first ever person who invented human language and writing, etc all of them Sumerian Kings that existed before the Flood.

I

He who has seen everything, I will make known (?) to the lands.
I will teach (?) about him who experienced all things,
... alike,
Anu granted him the totality of knowledge of all.
He saw the Secret, discovered the Hidden,
he brought information of (the time) before the Flood.
He went on a distant journey, pushing himself to exhaustion,
but then was brought to peace.
He carved on a stone stela all of his toils,
and built the wall of Uruk-Haven,
the wall of the sacred Eanna Temple, the holy sanctuary.

Supreme over other kings, lordly in appearance,
he is the hero, born of Uruk, the goring wild bull.
He walks out in front, the leader,
and walks at the rear, trusted by his companions.
Mighty net, protector of his people,
raging flood-wave who destroys even walls of stone!
Offspring of Lugalbanda, Gilgamesh is strong to perfection,
son of the august cow, Rimat-Ninsun;... Gilgamesh is awesome to perfection.
It was he who opened the mountain passes,
who dug wells on the flank of the mountain.
It was he who crossed the ocean, the vast seas, to the rising sun,
who explored the world regions, seeking life.
It was he who reached by his own sheer strength Utanapishtim, the Faraway,
who restored the sanctuaries (or: cities) that the Flood had destroyed!
Who can compare with him in kingliness?
Who can say like Gilgamesh: "I am King!"?
Whose name, from the day of his birth, was called "Gilgamesh"?
Two-thirds of him is god, one-third of him is human.
The Great Goddess [Aruru] designed(?) the model for his body,
she prepared his form ...
... beautiful, handsomest of men,
... perfect

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Humanity and human history isn't a being. You gotta cure yourself of this autism. The power of a collective is not something to compare to the power of an individual.

>Two-thirds of him is god, one-third of him is human.
How does this even work? If one parent was a divine and the other was a human, would this not make you 50% god instead of 66.666% god?

>Gaia is at least alive. Human history is a record, not a being.
Everything is a record in Akasha. Human history lives and modifies Gaia. The shape of the world is due to history, that's why is blank now because history was invaded by other histories.

>Alayashiki is a punk who gets dunked on by anyone who knows what they're doing. Counter forces ain't shit.
And according to Ebin 1 is what keeps Gaia from shitting herself vs big enemies who want to off her. She's just a shitter who hides behind Heroic Spirits in Fate.

>Yeah, Earth is apparently pretty shit even as far as planets go.
earth is the only planet that we know in the whole galaxy who BTFO the Velber and this was because the planet was wise to recognize this baby species, humans, were greater than everything else in theory. And she was right. All the planets of the Solar System got BTFO by the Velber, for example.

Humans are still young but even in their youth, they did what all the planets in the Galaxy didn't.

>she has to become the planet to get such freedom for indulgence. She can't do it as the SE.RA.PH alone.
She has the power to rape the shit of Gaia, what's your point? Just because she wants to be a big scenario doesn't mean she needs to.

>It's somewhat like Goetia's goal but completely in reverse
Goetia was going to retcon Gaia not lobotomize her.

>Humanity and human history isn't a being.
>The power of a collective is not something to compare to the power of an individual.

LB3 says hi. Collective > Individual got established. How the human perception of danger works gets established too.

>Even the Book of Genesis, which features the very first humans, was only written long AFTER the Epic of Gilgamesh.

There are older literature and works than the Epic of Gilgamesh though.

Epic of Gilgamesh was only discovered by archeologists in the late 1900s.

Clay tablets are just poorly preserved compared to other writing materials.

>Epic of Gilgamesh was only discovered by archeologists in the late 1900s.
Epic of Gilgamesh was first written down circa 2100 BC. There is no known older work of written literature.

Your autism is uncontainable. To not do this bullet point back and forth
1. Velber didn't send anything to other planets. It attacks sentient life and civilizations, and they have none.
2. Kiara still wanted to become the Planet despite being a Beast. Meaning being a Planet is still basically the best thing an individual can hope to be.
>Collective > Individual got established
And it's irrelevant.

Sumer myth is wild and probably has more in common with Asian myths than Mediterranean myths.
He's only part man because you have to be man to live in the world of men. That sort of bullshit. Also that comes from the age of myth where the soul, the mind, and the body were considered the three essential parts of a human so it can easily break down into the soul of a god, mind of a god, body of a man, which is why he had a mortal life even though he was more glorious than anyone else.

It is still canon that Gilgamesh didn't built the city he grew up in. He didn't built Uruk.

Uruk was built by an even older king. Gilgamesh did not invent architecture.

The only building Gil ever did in the Epic was a wall around the city's temple. That is it.

Also, the Hero of the Flood was responsible for gathering the male and female of every living creature before the Flood happened and afterwards was granted a title by the Sumerian Gods and Gilgamesh meets the Flood Hero and his wife under the mountain during his search for immortality.

Yeah, but there's not much stuff surrounding a single guy doing crazy shit. Remember how one becomes a Heroic Spirit: fame and deeds. Gilgamesh is the first guy to have the requisite fame and deeds to qualify as a Heroic Spirit. There were others before him but they lacked the requisite fame. Even the heroes that precede him only first gained fame in HIS epic.

What are you talking about? The discovery of the Epic helped lay the foundations for archaeology and historians accepting a civilization older than Egypt. It laid the foundation for the acceptance of Babylon, the Sumers, and other pre-Bablyon civilizations as fact rather than Persian myth.

>1. Velber didn't send anything to other planets. It attacks sentient life and civilizations, and they have none.
You know we have beings of those planets, right? Gods, so there must have been sentient life. If there wasn't, the planets are shitters who are incapable of producing anything good. And we know the Velber wiped out species of Titans (Altera is based on these) and possibly more across the Galaxy and only Earth could btfo them.

2. Kiara only wanted to become the planet so they can fight on her, not because it makes her stronger, it's all about show.

It's very relevant. Go and fap to your Arc scales if makes you feel better.

>Fame is required to become a hero
counterpoint: Angra Mainyu

As expected of a dumbass Gilfag.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_literature

Early Bronze Age: 3rd millennium BC (approximate dates shown). The earliest written literature dates from about 2600 BC (classical Sumerian).[2] The earliest literary author known by name is Enheduanna, a Sumerian priestess and public figure dating to ca. the 24th century BC. [3] Certain literary texts are difficult to date, such as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which was recorded in the Papyrus of Ani around 1240 BC, but other versions of the book probably date from about the 18th century BC.

2600 Sumerian texts from Abu Salabikh, including the Instructions of Shuruppak and the Kesh temple hymn
2400 Egyptian Pyramid Texts, including the Cannibal Hymn
2400 Sumerian Code of Urukagina[4]
2400 Egyptian Palermo stone
2350 Egyptian The Maxims of Ptahhotep
2270 Sumerian Enheduanna's Hymns
2250-2000 Sumerian Earliest stories in the Epic of Gilgamesh[5][6]
2100 Sumerian Curse of Agade
2100 Sumerian Debate between Bird and Fish
2050 Sumerian Code of Ur-Nammu
2000 Egyptian Coffin Texts
2000 Sumerian Lament for Ur
2000 Sumerian Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta

Angra Mainyu got in through a loophole: He basically receives Angra Mainyu's fame. He didn't really benefit from it, but as long as Angra Mainyu is known as the Zoroastrian Spirit of Destruction, the nameless guy who was given his name and worshiped as his proxy has a place in the Throne. Despite being powerless, being treated in this manner brought salvation to people. Angra Mainyu is a powerless human who is synonymous with the Spirit of Destruction, so he effectively is that Spirit of Destruction, despite receiving none of the benefits.

I heard that the Babylon arc is pretty dark? How dark will it be?
I have consumed almost everything fate related outside of the mobile game and the original VN. Heavens Feel being pretty grim was really surprising to me.

You can stop lying. Egypt already had a competing civilization with Sumer in real life.

Egyptian literature already existed in the same time period Epic of Gilgamesh was written.

Egypt already had OC mythology of their own, not influenced by Epic of Gilgamesh.

Did Nasu brainwash you that badly?

Who says gods have civilizations of their own? They're bodiless spirits without humans to give them form. Also Earth only managed to knock out a mental projection of Velber 02.
Of course it was to make her stronger, she couldn't summon thousands of servants with her own power.
And no, collectives still are not individuals. Comparing them is invalid.

Bazett looks nothing like Cu, neither does Kirei
Medea looks nothing like Atrum
Medea also looks nothing like Kuzuki
Medea also looks nothing like Sasaki

>instruction manuals and hymns exalting the gods
yawn. still not narratives glorifying human heroes.

Medea and sasaki actually rock the same colors, even their hairs are the same general color, very aesthetic.

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Here's the deal: The Epic of Gilgamesh is the first surviving big hero story. There are other texts about gods and stuff, but the Epic of Gilgamesh is about a partially human king doing crazy shit. The previous Kings of Uruk didn't have epics written about them. Previous heroes didn't have their names and deeds eternally recorded in human history.

The old Type-Moon you want is dead, it's better to just move on.

The point is that "fame" is relative because so long as at least one group of literally who villagers treat you like a hero despite absolutely nobody else in all of human history giving a fuck about you, you can bullshit your way onto the Throne somehow.

Awww the Giltard backpedaling like usual.

Good thing a fujoshit like yourself isn't considered a real life scholar in charge of deciding what is literature.

Not happening that easily user, I've been trying for years.

Playing the Fate route right now, just got told off by Saber for pushing her out of Berserker's way.

Does this get any better at any point? Nobody has any personality. Rin spent most of her time in the anime being either smug or frustrated, but here she's a goddamn robot. Even DEEN was more expressive than this shit.

>gilgamesh is the first literary hero
>"nu uh some egyptian wrote a booklet about how the gods are awesome"
nope, sorry

Well we don't quite know how big the village was and, again, he's piggybacking off a pre-existing story. It's like how "Musashibou Benkei" can be summoned in place of the actual Musashibou Benkei despite not being Musashibou Benkei. That's why it's a loophole. If you piggyback off of someone who DOES have the requisite fame and deeds, you can still get recorded in the Throne.

But the previous Sumerian Kings and Hero of the Flood lack that, and no one thought to write great epics about them.

How did that worked out for you?

It hasn't, as evidenced by the fact that I'm in this thread and still feel the need to follow FGO cancer lore and got excited when Wada Arco mentioned the Remake last week on twitter because of a fucking paper fan of Hisui and Kohaku.

Archer and Rin have the same colorscheme.
Shirou and Saber share most of their colors, but each one has a color the other don't (Shirou has red and saber yellow).
Of course, Kuzuki and Medea are mainly green, with Medea having purple details and Kuzuki having black hair.
Assassin is mainly purple with no green tho.
Sakura and Medusa share purple as a main color.

Takeuchi is a pretty damn good character design

>A bunch of inbred demon hunters eventually produced someone connected directly to the Root
Who?

Ryougi Shiki.

remind me again, how can the stray Servants we meet in the Singularities be hanging around with no Master and no Independent Action skill?

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>There are older literature and works than the Epic of Gilgamesh though.
But those are merely proverbs, laws or hymns as the list given in shows.
Though other kings came before none was given the same mythical status as Gilgamesh.

i think theres a grail in each singularity causing the problems right? maybe thats it. not sure

hidden "ghaca bucks" skill

The ones directly summoned by the counter force, like Emiya did countless of times in life? Like Kerry in Accel Zero?
Like Okita Alter countless times?

The Grails passively summon Servants. The Counter Force takes advantage of this and allows them to stick around in order to assist the protagonist.

Muh Grail magic
Muh singularities
Muh "I need to stuff this shitty gacha game fulll of Servants or secondaries won't like it LOL"

>that fucking art
>in episode 0
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
I wonder what episode 6 will look like. This is turning out into marchen madsen tier

Normal World rules of "get this shit out of here it's not supposed to be here" don't apply in Singularities because the World is fucked.

>muh Counter Force
Please, it has become the designated plot device to explain all kinda bullshit so that they can shoehorn as many fetishied servants as they want to continue to print money.

>The Grails passively summon Servants
Why did they do that? Since when was summoning heroic spirits a property shared by all Holy Grails instead of being particular to the Fuyuki Grail?

Counterforce doesn't step in until shit really hits the fan anyway.
Only time it nearly stepped in was EoR4.

Chaldea is just hypercompetent.

It's more of convenience. Grails have enough raw power to summon Servants, and as wish granters they can summon whatever's necessary. They simply responded to humanity's wish for salvation. The fog in the fourth Singularity, being powered by the Grail, had similar properties. The Counter Force took advantage of that to summon Servants that might be able to help the Master of Chaldea to fight.

Human history's already fucked. It's already happened. Counter Force is really weak, but it can still at least take advantage of systems already in place. It's why Tamamo and GOLDEN appeared just in time to slow down Tesla in the Fourth Singularity, and why it summoned Sengo Muramasa in Shimosa. If there's already a system in place that will summon Servants, then the Counter Force will take advantage of it to do what it can to ensure humanity's survival.

>hypercompetent
determined and lucky*

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Babbage be killing it

Spooky Hassan seems like the most "true" Hassan, although all of them are flawed in some way in KH's eyes. I'd bet Spooky is one of the first after KH, if not the first.

He can shut down magecraft, so if his Master orders him to do so he could unsummon any Servant present via operating the Greater Grail.

What? Every Servant dispateched in singularities Are countetforce sent.

Anyone acknowledged by the Old Man of the Mountain wouldn't take part in some farce like a "Holy Grail War".
>"There is no such thing as the Holy Grail. Do not confuse fantasy with fanaticism."