JJBA Stardust crusaders

He still lived the longest out of all the Jojos anyway.

>implying hamon would work on a non physical stand

Part 3 was fucking trash and everyone and everything in it was awful that's why.

Still seething over that shitshow of a finale?

I dunno, I just really didn't like part 3. Everything about it felt like... I dunno. A proof of concept really, it just doesn't have the same campy flair as the other parts, powers are fairly vanilla compared to later parts, Jotaro is about as engaging as a plank of wood because of his huge fucking autism, it feels half baked and the endless stand of the week stuff for like 30 episodes with none of them contributing to the overall plot was just eugh.

It was fucking shit but the road roller was funny.

Part 3s ending wasnt that bad really

I always thought Part 4 was worse with the Stands of the Week. That old guy floating around in the Polaroid stabbing people with the arrow to throw at Josuke and his friends chewed up a whole cour by himself.

Being a father does that to you.

>and yes, stand users can see the hamon sparks
Regular people can see it, Smokey's narration said Joseph was glowing when he did the Coca Cola trick.

The dads stand of the week bullshit only really kicks in half way through though, part 3 was stand of the week from like the moment they recruited Polnareff all the way up to Dio with about 4 episodes of actual plot sandwiched between them. Part 4 just feels like the whole thing flows up to the dad crap, wheras part 3 feels like 30+ episodes of what could be fucking oneshots entirely separate from the plot. Part 2 forever the best, it was short and sweet with no time for arc decay to set in, even if individual elements were worse the whole thing flowed as one good whole

why does the child and touched constantly and even gets naked at one point

And before Yoshihiro, Part 4 was motw with even less of a plot.

You have:

Josuke, who barely does jack shit after Atom Heart Father
Koichi, who barely does jack shit after Sheer Heart Attack
Jotaro, who barely does shit after Atom Heart Father
Okuyasu, who barely does jack shit after Red Hot Chili Pepper
Rohan, who barely does jack shit after meeting Reimi
Yukako, who does jack shit after her filler arc
Tamami, who does jack shit after his filler arc
Hazamada, who does jack shit after his filler arc
Tonio, who does jack shit after his filler arc

Then Yoshihiro gives us:

Janken Boy, who is one-off filler
Yuya, who is relevant for two filler arcs
A cat, which is pretty fucking dumb yet somehow one of the better utilized characters in the part
The Superfly dude, who is one-off filler
Enigma boy, who is one-off filler
Cheap Trick, who is one-off filler

And there's Mikitaka who actually doesn't have anything to do with Yoshihiro and appears in two filler arcs.

Why was part 4 so lazy?

Araki said in an interview that he based those scenes on the things that he liked to do with little boys in real life.

Based, write what you know

What counts as a part in this case? new to this I thought it was counted in seasons or arcs?

How would he have done that, exactly?

New JoJo = new part

Also they literally have different names lol goddamn

oh fuck thought we were talking about sdc

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Araki forgot how to write

I just hate how hamon and stands are totally unrelated power stuff. I mean, if you are going to keep inventing asspull powers, at least make some connection to them so it doesnt get so obvious you completely changed your mind in the middle of writing your fucking story, Araki.

>Why was part 4 so lazy?
Because it was the SoL part

JJBA has always been their involvement with the supernatural. Hamon was a martial arts technique aimed at slaying vampires, zombies, and pillar men. With the death of the pillar men and the destruction of the stone masks, no more zombies can be created. Thus, hamon is no longer needed to oppose the supernatural. Notice that when Joseph fights DIO, he does use hamon to repel him, because it can work against him, while it won't normally work on Stands.

Stands would be much dumber if that was how they explained them.

>doesnt use hamon even though noone has any Idea of what that is and could take any stand user in surprise easily
>doesnt teach hamon to Jotaro who would probably the best hamon user in all Jojo
Jonathan might've just stayed in Japan.

Hamon can also help you live longer and help you perform tricks like walking on water.

>Waiter, I'd like a glass of water!
>Here you go sir!
>Wait a minute, this water has been CARBONATED. HE IS A STAND USER
>THAT'S RIGHT I AM NOW IT'S TIME TO FIGHT FOR 2 EPISODES FOR NO REASON

What a brilliant anime bravo

I dont remember well but hamon still works with regular humans,doesnt it? Its not like it cant hit the stand user before he realizes it.

Joesph implies that stands are evolved hamon at the beginning but that's quickly retconned.
Yeah, Johnathan learned hamon in a week. The entire gang should have known hamon by the time they got to Dio.

It does, they use it on humans all the time in parts 1 and 2.

Just because you are good at doing something doesn't mean that you are good at teaching other people how to do it.

BASED

> "Joseph wasnt really good at teaching so... welp!"
Is that even an excuse? Thats just stupid. Even the "he forgot he could use it" one is better.

>Joesph implies that stands are evolved hamon at the beginning but that's quickly retconned.
It's even more minor than that.

>When first presented, the term is written as "Stand" (幽波紋スタンド Sutando), with furigana to change the pronunciation of what literally means "Ghostly Ripple" (幽波紋 Yūhamon) in kanji.

How is it not an excuse? Joseph doesn't have a clue on how to teach someone else to use hamon breathing. It was just something that he could do instinctively since he was a child.

Im not saying that making up an origin for stands would be better, bit I think Stands should have been vulnerable to hamon and vampiric powers so the plot could get more interesting.
Dio being a vampire is completely forgotten in the end of part 3, except from the "hard to kill" part.

Im not saying its not excuse, im saying its not a good one. To think Joseph just sitted on his ass for 20 years and never developed an interest on learning hamon, or that the sppeedwagon foundation never even though of preserving it is just one of those plot choices made for convenience, as Araki wanted to close the door for any Hamon subplots that could appear.

>To think Joseph just sitted on his ass for 20 years and never developed an interest on learning hamon

Yes I believe that. From what we saw he just flew around the world having sex, that sounds like Joseph to me.

Vampire powers are all related to the physical body. It wouldn't make sense if having super strength suddenly allowed you to touch a psychic power.

The death of hamon really could've been done better desu, just a couple of the stand users could easily have been ghouls who used their stands to abuse and destroy hamon techniques to emphasize how stands utterly outclassed hamon, but nope.

It fits perfectly with how his character was established to be from Part 2 though. He hates training. He only worked on his hamon for a month because he had to save his own skin from the pillar men. It would be more of a plot convenience if he completely changed his mindset just to have an excuse for newer characters to learn hamon from him.

Hamon is taught by Tibetan monks. How common do you think those are? It made sense that it was never mentioned again

And hamon is just generating sunlight.

Hamon was a technique that was used to solve certain problems that weren't all that relevant to the stories Araki wanted to tell after Part 2. It's not that it died or was outclassed, it just wasn't the focus.

That's means Mao killed Hamon?

Tibetan monks and Italians.

Oh yeah it's time was over, but there could've easily been like 2 fights early on vs ghouls or something for Joseph to job in with hamon techniques to show how stands have made hamon totally obsolete instead of hamon being a potentially useful thing that's just entirely forgotten by everyone for the entire damn series. It just went from being THE focal technique to fucking nothing without anything in between. It was a shift that could've been addressed with like 2 fights tops, and given how many filler fights part 3 had that would've have been a hard thing to fit in y'know?

Italians who learned from Tibetan monks

because his soul admitted defeat while he was panicking about his previous cheat being countered

But Lisa Lisa can't awaken Hamon in someone

>would've
Shit my drinking is getting to me
"Wouldn't have"

Stands were never meant to make hamon obsolete. Joseph still uses hamon and that saves his life in the final battle.

We never saw her try.

The fact is part 1&2 and the rest are completely different things and couldve just been divided into two distint anime.
One wpnders if Araki just didnt have resources to make a different series and just shoved the story into the Jojo plotline.

I disagree.

Muhammad literally beats Jotoro by cutting off his breath.

>were never meant to make hamon obsolete
That's why it was barely given passing mention in part 3 and entirely forgotten afterwards in favor of stands right?

Joseph uses hamon for its intended purpose throughout the whole part.

Because stands are more interesting, not because they're better than hamon at what hamon does well.

To be fair stands do fade out when the user is close to dying

Im still in the hopes that in future parts someone will show up mixing both stands and the lost art of hamon to make a completely op technique.

Yeah, he was weakened.

The Spin was literally just what should've happened with Hamon but Araki didn't think of it yet

We don't even know if hamon exists in the new universe.

I agree entirely, I just wish hamon had been given an actual fall from grace instead of a teleport into the dumpster from grace y'know?

Why would hamon become the spin?

Being phased out because the story moved on is better than being phased out because the characters see it as weak in universe.

One more reason to make it appear. Asspulling hamon out of nowhere would be a totally Jojoesque move.

Hamon ceases to exist once Stands start existing.

No, the spin evolved into a stand. Ball Breaker and Tusk are really cool when they happen.

There's nothing graceful about the idea of Joseph jobbing multiple times to enemies who exist just to shit on hamon.

>being phased out offscreen is better than being demonstrated to be inferior onscreen.
No
I mean joseph was always a very tricky cerebral fighter, he could've quickly an easily realized hamon just didn't cut the mustard any more and won with creative use of his stand, keeping him a badass and demonstrating how hamon wasn't relevant anymore without any damage to his character. Instead we got a useless old man who's only value was shouting "OHU NOO" one per episode

>being phased out offscreen is better than being demonstrated to be inferior onscreen.
It is.

The problem here is that you refuse to acknowledge that hamon was still used in Part 3. It DOES cut the mustard in the ways that it was supposed to. There would be no point in making a scene that establishes hamon to be worthless when Araki wasn't trying to make it worthless.

If you just want a scenario where Joseph can't use his hamon and uses his stand instead, that's literally the Empress fight.

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Spin is the new hamon
And tusk and ballbreaker show what a stand utilizing spin can be like

Is it ever known why Joseph's use of hamon didnt make him prolong his life? If the hamon was really kicking in, on part 3 he should've been just around his early 30's in appearence. Instead we got an old man already in his 60's.
Frustrating how every angle you look at part 3 jonathan you can just see wasted opportunities.

He wasn't a dedicated practitioner

Nah using Hamon properly requires some pretty intensive training according to part 2, and part 2 also establishes Joseph isn't one to do hard work when he doesn't need to. He's lazy, this is a well established trait of Joseph and makes perfect sense.
It was Araki's first go at Stands, there's some cool stuff in there, but he's definitely gotten a lot more creative and interesting with them as time has gone on. Early on part 3 I was saying Hamon was better, but by now I'd never want it back

why does the dog shit itself as a gag, Japanese humor or is it aimed at children?

Both

>Araki wasn't trying to make it worthless.
Shame that's exactly what he fucking did then huh. I still love jojo but the part 2 to part 3 power change and transition was absolutely garbage because of how he handled it.

>Shame that's exactly what he fucking did then huh
No? Did you not read part 3?

>Part 3 is entirely monster of the week with only Hol Horse and Boingo surviving beyond their initial encounters
>Part 4 is lazy for wasting monster of the week stand users
>Part 5 is entirely a gauntlet of people being thrown at the heroes one at a time until the final conflict

I don't quite understand this discrepancy.

I think people are more harsh on Part 4 because it keeps the defeated enemies around as allies, so people expected more from them.

>sbility so useful it appears for about 5 pages across the entire manga and about 4 minutes tops of the entire anime
Ah yes extremely useful. This is why it turned up constantly after part 3 because of how useful it was yes?

It would've been a nice moment to see Joseph kill that vampire guy with the woman's face with Hamon because stands couldn't do it properly or some bullshit, but nah gotta oraoraoraora because the show hasn't jerked off Jotaro enough yet

They needed him alive to take them to DIO.

literally fanboyism

>ability stops being used = ability useless

So your complaint is just about screentime, and not how abilities are used in the actual story?

Jotaro was a side character in his own part, I actually liked him in part 4.

Hamon's advantage is that its a power any person could learn if he wishes to train hard enough. It has a why and a how.
Stands are just literal random asspulls, or made by an asspull arrow.

The argument of "stands are better than hamon" is just retarded because stands are a retarded concept in itself.

He did literally nothing in part 4 tho

nice buzzword, retard

You don't actually believe the ripple is better and more interesting than Stands do you? Even though stands all have unique, interesting powers and each Stand has it's own design, strengths and weaknesses?
He did a couple of things which felt a fuckload more than all he did in part 3, which was punch and then eventually stop time. He actually had a conversation or two in part 4.

You're literally reatarded

*retarded

>ability was still useful
SO WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T IT EVER GET USED AND WHEN IT DID GET USED IT WAS USEFUL FOR NOTHING MORE THAN BUYING LIKE 5 SECONDS OF TIME VS DIO? This is my problem with how it was handled user god dammit. I liked the 2 hamon parts, I like the parts after part 3, but god damn the hamon to stands transition was clumsy as fuck and could've been handled infinitely better. Especially since Araki hadn't figured out how to write interesting stands yet.
No, screentime is just a function of how the transition between the two powersets was sloppy. Hamon could've easily been used in a minor support function and been part 3s crazy diamond healing or whatever (since part 1 already showed it fixing completely shattered arms). But it just got pushed to the wayside in favor of stands with no real in universe reasoning or explanation, shit even joseph talking about how "I knew hamon users who could do X with it but I can't, SHIT" would've gone some way to making the change smoother y'know?

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>wojak
Opinion invalidated.

Wait that wasn't the picture I posted what the fuck. I don't even have that saved. This was what I was trying to post what in the fucking goddamn.

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based

>user is an idiot
>eventually posts a wojak
Every time.

>Hamon could've easily been used in a minor support function and been part 3s crazy diamond healing or whatever (since part 1 already showed it fixing completely shattered arms). But it just got pushed to the wayside in favor of stands
But it's not like they used stands to heal in Part 3 either. You're acting like stands replaced hamon when they serve two different purposes. Joseph still uses hamon in every situation where it was necessary and it worked.

Just give up.

In Part 4 Jotaro was clearly underused for being too OP. I thibk there was nore than one occasion where the characters were all "fuck! Lets call jotaro in his hotel room god knows where!" and it ammounts to nothing. I get that he wasnt a main character in the story but it makes you wonder why bring him to the show just to stand there to look "too cool for scool" sometimes.

>no arguments
I accept your defeat.

Ripple is same as stand power. Darby would have seen it

Everybody can see the ripple

>thinks an argument is won by the last post
>last post is "wojak poster lmao"
You must be 18 to post here

>this hamon autist
Hamon was used consistently in part 3 to keep people healthy despite them suffering deadly injuries every day, and was used cleverly by Joseph when it was valuable. It saved his life multiple times. (flesh bud in his head, empress, DIO). Hamon wasn't meant to be invalidated, it's weird you bitch about it being useless but think it would've been better if it were shown multiple times to be useless. You want Joseph to be the ultimate badass main character, but Part 3 is not about Joseph just like it's not about Hamon, it's about stands and the cast that uses them. Hamon is useful sometimes in part 3, but not against most of its antagonists. Just like most Stands wouldn't be particularly useful in part 2, where the immortal pillarmen would shrug off their attacks and pulp the stand users.
tldr you're autistic

>Hamon was used consistently in part 3 to keep people healthy despite them suffering deadly injuries every day
Did this actually happen on screen? I don't recall reading it, but it's been ages

No this literally never happened. Part 3 apologists are the fucking worst.

Pretty sure that Arabia Fats, Mannish Boy, Midler, Oingo, Mariah, Alessi, and at least one D'Arby survived.

It's simply because D'Arby would've noticed the nuclear death storm that happens every time JiJi uses hamon.

It's because if Joseph actively used hamon, Jotaro would look inept as a protagonist.

>Knows Dio has been on the loose for 5 years
>Doesn't bother training in hamon again

But then he couldn't grow old with suzie

Too bad Joseph doesnt go up against the Vanilla Ice.

It took 2 POSTS for someone to get it right. The fact that this dumbass question wasn't shot down from post 1 disappoints me. Then again, this is Yea Forums, so maybe I'm holding my expectations too high.

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The worst part is that people are still arguing about it and suggesting wrong answers after the real answer was given.

Thats only seen in the anime, hamon isnt that visible in the manga IIRC.

terrible bait

If Joseph goes creative with both his Hamon and Hermit Purple, he could probably solo every antagonist in part 3, bar Dio. But then he's going to completely steal the show.

It's pretty visible

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I don't know what you expected with Yea Forums. The majority are retarded faggots that would make even the most stupid person look smart.

There's nothing he can do with hamon and hermit purple to win the coin drop game.

Has anyone here tried to learn the ripple breathing technique?