Is gil the strongest servant? what servant can beat him

I hate Dio, but this.

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Gil and every good looking male character in fate is fujobait. Discuss about the girls please.

Arcuied.

His clay bro.

But how is that fair at all from a game's perspective, holy grail war developers must suck

Gugalanna, Enkidu, any strong God at full power, Humbaba and Tokiomi telling him to An Hero with a command spell

They were not the ones to add his soul to the throne of heroes. And he's balanced by always jobbing because of his personality.

Shiki can kill servants.

The real reason the grail war devs suck is for putting Casters into the war.
Casters basically try their hardest to ruin everything for everyone.

Casters are supposed to drop dead quickly because other servants have magic resistance.

Would Gil even kill himself with just one command spell? IA and high magic resistance would diminish the effectiveness of the spell.

Casters with evil alignment like Medea and Gilles were not supposed to be summoned originally. They're only summoned after 3rd war because of Angry Manjew.

To be fair to Gilles, his master was a literal child serial killer so he ruined it due to his master being a psycho

can solomon beat him?

Strange/Fake is literally just a HGW where Gil is the baseline level.

Raw stats, yes, strongest.

When you take into account master mana, in theory, Dark Sakura has nearly infinite mana so I think Saber Alter would have a good chance of taking him on, supposing that he wasn't eaten by that point in the VN

Yup

Scath or Karna canonically can do the job.

If Gilgamesh at full power went against Saber with full power, he'd lose when she activates Avalon.

grand servants are not servant, different containr
emiya can't beat serious gil
liz is legit but only if gil doesn't use AUO castoff

It's funny because Gil is literally based on DIO just like Wallachia. Too bad Nasu is a SBRtard.

>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH ISHTAR, HUMBABA AND GRAIL MUD HELP ME THE POISON BURNS

>doesn't use Ea and stay in place like a retard
>Avalon is useless now

Gil has practically infinite mana due to having super low costs to begin with and having mana-generating NPs in his vault. His output might be lower though.

Servants who can beat Gilgamesh (who uses EA as much as he likes and destroys reality marbles)
>Archer Hercules
>Prisma Illya Shirou Emiya Archer Card
>F/SN Saber
>True Assassin with Zabaniya
>Cu with Gae Bolg

Gilgamesh can see future and alternative timelines if he's serious.

>>Archer Hercules
Proof?
>>Prisma Illya Shirou Emiya Archer Card
Proof?
>>F/SN Saber
He was playing with her though
>>True Assassin with Zabaniya
Proof?
>>Cu with Gae Bolg
He already jobbed to Gil

this is becoming too much bs to be true
he isn't omniscient

So he could actually win this time?

He's being made the underdog, so yes

>servant
Bazett can do it

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He's qualified for grand caster position which requires top clairvoyance. Clairvoyance at such level allows to even see the future. He doesn't use it on purpose though.

>doesn't use Ea
Now what?

He's not qualified for Grand Caster, it's explicitly stated. Strong Clairvoyance is something all Grand Caster candidates have, but there are other, unknown requirements which he does not meet. Hell, he doesn't even know how to cast spells.

>Now what?
She dodges the swords, gets close and punches his spirit core like she has already done once

100% Gil can literally solo everyone in the franchise, so there is none.

shadow gil is not real gil. also needed help from kuro. not to mention she's immediately forced to retreat again.
he can't solo beasts, and there's a fair amount of high tier servants he'd have trouble with now like enkidu, karna etc.

*ahem*

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Doesn't a serious EMIYA win the war in alternate timelines?

Are there any noble phantasms that actually generate mana though? I'm not up to date with the latest zoomer gachashit so i wouldn't know.

merlin stomps him

Strongest Saber, obviously.

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Too bad kingofjobbers is weak against normal japanese JKs. Can't even beat an 1 autistic or 1 magic STD worm JK even if his life depended on it.

I think Scathach could beat him, but outside of GO, she's actually still alive and thus can't become a servant, so that point is moot.

this guy is so irrelevant now.

How do you figure chief?

Karna?

My cock can beat him, but i let him has it as his new phantasm

His twitter art slowed down a lot, fujos don't care about him at all. His popularity and existence in the series is being Bryn's husband. Actually that's all FGO fan care about him, being a shipper fodder. Boring characters that doesn't appeal to any particular group, only mostly to fans of Proto Fragment but isn't like as their primary favorite.

Same goes for Bryn desu, those two orbitting each other is the only way fans care about them.

Any servant who's physically faster and has a hax phantasm could 1 shot him before he has a chance to do anything.

The whole fate universe is bullshit. There are so many 1 shot or reality breaking noble phantasms. Fights between top tier servants basically boil down to a quick draw contest. Whoever strikes first wins.

sigurd's pixiv page is 90% by one guy who use him as a comic relief.

Not the same guy but that's pretty much how it is for any character that doesn't get pushed that much outside of their singularities and writer's personal mary sue dindus. That or waifu/husbando-bait characters who only exist to deepthroat (You). It's sad shit but that's just the times we in.

Well shit that sucks,chief. But, eh, I still like the dude and think he'd likely push Gil's shit in as long as he doesn't give him the chance to whip Ea out.

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Is this why he gets beaten all the fucking time?

I wonder how Type Moon managed to get his fangs into him after the fake moon hit him. Did he get rused into approaching his "corpse" to make sure he was neutralised?

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Did they make him job?

Yeah, Ishtar closed his gate because king of jobbers threw the key to it away in the beginning and she picked it up.

None of those servants can beat Gilgamesh. Cu and Saber especially lose.

You dumb cunts realize Gilgamesh isn't slow right? He can fight Altera, Richard who has EX/A++ AGI and can block Alcides' arrows from like a meter away. Said arrows moved faster than his lightning. No servant has a chance of blitzing this guy.

That's just fluff. His stats are pretty average.

LE is bullshit and retarded and Strange Fake wanks all the characters almost nonsensically to the point it might as well be DBZ especially so with Gilgamesh yet still somehow finds a way to write him to be utterly retarded. His stats are average besides his luck and NP, anyone with a B or above in their stats is kicking his ass the moment they get close it's why he hides like a pussy behind his sword spam and Enkidu. He knows he sucks against anyone who's above average in close quarters combat. Even Shirou using diminished stats from his traced weapons, blitzed and out-classed him in close-quarters. Let that sink in.

>That's just fluff. His stats are pretty average.
Happens on-screen
>Fliff
>LE is bullshit
It was Extella, secondary. In CCC, he also restricts himself to melee wepaons
>His stats are average
>Main Bs are average.
>Stat meme when Cursed Arm has the same stats as Cu
Not even forgetting he was fighting with and reacting to Saber in FSN after she unlocked her dragon core. Even in that same VN, he could fight against Lancer in a locked basement, standing right next to each other
> Even Shirou
Biggest plot meme character in FSN. Fucking FATE Shirou and HF Shirou before Archer's arm, can react, trace to and intercept Heracles' strikes.

>Liz
what

>LE is bullshit and retarded and Strange Fake wanks
>D-Doesn't count
You don't get to decide canon, buddy.

>It was Extella, secondary. In CCC, he also restricts himself to melee wepaons
My mistake then, doesn't change the fact that it was bullshit and still retarded when he still can't take Arturia or Shirou in a head-to-head fight yet can somehow not get his shit pushed in by a monster like Altera. INB4 'no serious'
>His stats are average
>Main Bs are average.
His strength is the only B rank he has
Endurance and Agility C
His A luck and EX NP are his only standout stats and one of which becomes irrelevant if his enemy has any method of hard countering it.
>Stat meme when Cursed Arm has the same stats as Cu
>Not knowing a bad matchup in weaponry and general skill even with even stats is still a thing.
Chiron and Achilles fight is a good example of stats might not be everything, as technique and skill still has merits, but they are still pretty relevant in most cases. Gil, however, unlike Cu, Cursed Arm, Chiron has no real skill or technique, he just relies on his NP spam.
>Not even forgetting he was fighting with and reacting to Saber in FSN after she unlocked her dragon core.
If by 'fighting' you mean, hiding behind his Gate of Babylon and overwhelming her with his blade spam and outbeaming her with Ea' until she got close and literally one-shotted him.
>Even in that same VN, he could fight against Lancer in a locked basement, standing right next to each other.
He didn't fight against Lancer close-range in the basement, he blocked his Lance once because he knew it was coming anyways, and then immediately started spamming NP's. Even in Deen's adaptation he does the same shit and then whips out Enkidu to hold Cu in place.
>Biggest plot meme character in FSN. Fucking FATE Shirou and HF Shirou before Archer's arm, can react, trace to and intercept Heracles' strikes.
He gets his shit pushed in 9/10 times when against Heracles and gets swatted like nothing before he could even react to it up until Saber helps him out same thing in HF after he uses 9 Lives.

No but I do get to call out it's bullshit when it's nonsensical and contradicts previously established limitations and rules. You want to think of them as canon, you're free to do so. Not stopping you.

>contradicts previously established limitations and rules
Fate is retconned all the time. Hell, it was never consistent from the beginning. Remember when Gilgamesh had the single highest level of divinity? RIP. Even Curries have that much now.

wakey wakey

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King Hassan probably has a genuine chance, yeah. I'd think any Heroic Spirit that is a Grand qualifier could give Gilgamesh a hard time.

He is "the strongest Servant" but a relatively poor combatant, just like how Avenger is "the weakest Servant" but is a ferocious fighter let down by shitty gear.

King Hassan or Solomon could probably beat him. If the bells toll Gil's name, he's dead, and Solomon could probably find some magic bullshit to beat him in his workshop

>My mistake then, doesn't change the fact that it was bullshit and still retarded when he still can't take Arturia or Shirou in a head-to-head fight yet can somehow not get his shit pushed in by a monster like Altera. INB4 'no serious'
Except he beat Arturia in a "head-to-head" fight and was reacting to her all the way, even before drawing GoB. This is about Gilgamesh's speed.
>His strength is the only B rank he has
Based tertiarybro. B STR is only for FSN, his weakest incarnation because Kirei is a shit master. He's full B and then As when summoned properly, even in Zero.
>>Not knowing a bad matchup in weaponry and general skill even with even stats is still a thing.
What the fuck are you talking about? I said Cursed Arm is a weakling of a servant of assassin class, having the same stats as the fastest servant in the war and called Irish Heracles/Arthur by Nasu, and a top servant in a Drama CD. This Cu couldn't even blitz a beat Gilgamesh in a basement, standing right next to him.
>If by 'fighting' you mean,
That was his second fight, retard. His first was chaining weapons from GoB to outspeed and take her off guard in melee. If Saber was so much faster, it wouldn't have mattered how many weapons he could draw out, she'd have cut his arms immediately.
>he blocked his Lance once because he knew it was coming anyways,
Holy animefag. We never see the fight in the VN. Stop proving your secondary status.
>He gets his shit pushed in 9/10 times
Doesn't fucking matter. We see he has the reactions to trace and intercept Heracles, which makes no fucking sense when he was a human. He moves so much faster than Heracles than he, in mid-swing can't reach Saber before Shirou does to push her out of the way. Shirou is a plot-based character in FSN and does as the plot demands.

i want a story that focuses on Zelretch

probably, Gil has a lot of bullshit in his vault

>He didn't fight against Lancer close-range in the basement, he blocked his Lance once because he knew it was coming anyways
This is irrelevant. Knowing an attack is coming doesn't mean anything if the body isn't fast enough to move as well.

> says he hates the gods above all else
>Ishtar-sama save meeee
Shiggy diggy

Gilgamesh has a holy grail in the vault. He'll never run out of mana if that's what he wants.

Gil considers Medea a greater threat to him than considers Heracles, discuss.

What do you mean? i dont remember that

Because his chains pretty much render a Herc a non factor. A Servant who can actually scheme and plot, even if they're far weaker, is obviously more of a threat.

Winning the grail would be boring to him, so throwing everything into Chaos is more interesting and worth his time, next to him boning Seibah or actually fighting a worthy opponent for him to bring out EA.

All that aside,no one can beat the power of AUO. NO ONE.

>AUO. NO ONE.
I can name at least 15 on the top of my head. The actual number's probably around 30

Casters have a lot of bullshit to them, with enough prep time, she could beat anyone, most of them could beat anyone, thats how Solomon won his HGW

Shiki can kill Hisui.
Hisui is the Saber prototype.
Prototypes > Copies/Descendants.
Saber can beat Gilgamesh.
Ergo, Shiki can beat Gilgamesh.
Q.E.D.

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They really messed up balancing them.
Casters always end up being the mid-bosses and MVPs of the Grail Wars

yea i mean, In the bad end where she takes saber, she wins the grail after about a day right?
something like that. Casters with proper set up can be op

Ozy would kill him without a problem

You have zero clue what you're talking about.

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On of the only legitimate posts in the thread.

>Any Grand
Merlin is basically proven weaker in Babylonia. Although that was more than just regular servant Gil.

Merlin is only a candidate for the Grand class. Now that Solomon is gone, he's basically next in line. It's not official yet, though. Goetia shouldn't be used as an example of Grands. He was a Beast.

He shows up to the Temple fully decked out in his armour.
He shows up to the Einzbern Castle dressed like a fucking Slav.

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>candidate
No, he's grand caster. Called that in materials. Called that in Babylonia itself. In fact, he says the only reason he and King Hassan could be there is because a beast was there. There were two grand casters simultaneously, Solomon is still considered such, again according to mats.

oh lol

Assuming he's actually serious for once, Gilgamesh's strength comes from the following factors:
1) Gate of Babylon. Contains a virtually limitles number of the finest treasures, including Noble Phantasms. As far as firepower goes, the only Servants who could conceivably match him are Karna, Ozymandias or King Arthur.
2) Ea. His trump card. A powerful EX-ranked Anti-World Noble Phantasm that can even overwhelm Excalibur. If he pulls this out, you're probably fucke.d
3) Chain of Heaven. Powerful anti-divinity. A lot of the strongest Servants have a Heaven attribute, and most Heaven-attribute Servants have high Divinity.
4) Sha Naqba Imuru. EX-ranked Clairvoyance that allows him to see through any truths and see through the world's possibilities. If he actually utilized this ability properly in conjunction with his treasury, he'd be unstoppable. Unfortunately, he keeps it mostly sealed most of the time.

With gear like that, he could even conceivably go against Grand Servants. But in order for that to happen, you'd need to fulfill two qualifications: Either he deems his Master as truly worthy, thus becoming a Servant who dutifully responds to his Master's Orders, or you'd need to give him an opponent that he deems truly worthy of him going all out against. So far, two Masters have fulfilled the first qualification, while the only enemy that fulfilled the second was Beast II.

>As far as firepower goes, the only Servants who could conceivably match him are Karna, Ozymandias or King Arthur.
And Enkidu, and Melt, and BB, and God Arjuna, and Qin, and Passionlip, and Kingprotea, and Quetzalcoatl, and...do I really need to continue until you get the picture?

Forgot Enkidu, but Meltrylis, Passionlip, Kingprotea and B.B. can't. Enuma Elish does more damage than anything else in the C.C.C. I doubt Quetzalcoatl can compare to it either.

Except he beat Arturia in a "head-to-head" fight and was reacting to her all the way, even before drawing GoB. This is about Gilgamesh's speed.
You mean their first fight when he was letting Saber hit his arms because he COULDN'T dodge and thought his armor could tank it and THEN used his GOB to pull out two swords that abilities caught her offguard while he stood in the same place? And again Saber still was weak and was being cautious. When they fight the second time he's merely blocking her blows by weapons that appear from behind to shield him and then retreating.
>His strength is the only B rank he has
Based tertiarybro. B STR is only for FSN, his weakest incarnation because Kirei is a shit master. He's full B and then As when summoned properly, even in Zero.
Incorrect again. Tokiomi is the only time he has B's and A's.It's also his ranking for FGO and CCC.
>What the fuck are you talking about? I said Cursed Arm is a weakling of a servant of assassin class, having the same stats as the fastest servant in the war and called Irish Heracles/Arthur by Nasu, and a top servant in a Drama CD. This Cu couldn't even blitz a beat Gilgamesh in a basement, standing right next to him.
Are you retarded?
>If by 'fighting' you mean,
That was his second fight, retard. His first was chaining weapons from GoB to outspeed and take her off guard in melee. If Saber was so much faster, it wouldn't have mattered how many weapons he could draw out, she'd have cut his arms immediately.
See the first argument and again the novel literally tells you even at her pique (as pique as she can be under a magus like Shirou) she's still cautious and doesn't just blitz him whenever she has the advantage and is pushing him back, she backs off because she doesn't know what ability might come from a weapon from the GOB. The moment she doesn't have to worry about that the fight ends because he can't do anything to stop her.
*Cont

>Holy animefag. We never see the fight in the VN. Stop proving your secondary status.

Lancer's lance that should have attacked me goes for Gilgamesh.
Gilgamesh's longsword repels Lancer's lance as if expecting it.
"I see. A man with a brilliant death has something different to say. So this betrayal is a result of your heroic pride as well, huh?
Geez, following your beliefs sure is hard, Lancer."

…The air behind him distorts.
Weapons appear in empty space

A thousand swords appear.
The golden knight grins.
That's why he was able to block Lancer's surprise attack.
Lancer wasn't the only one trying to launch a surprise attack on his ally.

"Damn------so this was your plan all along."

"I told you. I would have done the same thing if you had not done so.
You deserve praise, Cu Chulainn. This situation is ideal for me."

Gee, I sure do wonder what Gilgamesh is going to do with all those swords! At this point, I think you're honestly just trolling me.

>but Meltrylis, Passionlip, Kingprotea and B.B. can't.
Oh yes they can. Kingprotea can grow larger than planets. BB has the authority of the moon cell and C.C.C is a game over regardless of HP. Meltrylis is so strong that Gilgamesh had no chance and Passionlip also has an instant kill NP with trash and crash, she was just too dumb in the game to use it properly.
>Quetzalcoatl can compare to it either.
Quetzalcoatl is a major goddess who could fight Kingu, who was Enkidu, in his real body, equipped with a holy grail. You're bonkers if you think she's beneath Gilgamesh's level.

Nigga, Enuma Elish does 99999 damage and also inflicts instant-death.

>Doesn't fucking matter. We see he has the reactions to trace and intercept Heracles, which makes no fucking sense when he was a human. He moves so much faster than Heracles than he, in mid-swing can't reach Saber before Shirou does to push her out of the way. Shirou is a plot-based character in FSN and does as the plot demands.

I'll give you this one since looking back that is actually pretty stupid and not worth defending.

>BB has the authority of the moon cell
That's the point, outside the Moon Cell BB is weak

>You mean their first fight when he was letting Saber hit his arms
More like was blocking, or do you think Saber is retarded enough to strike the same place like 13 times, instead of just going for other areas because she's sooo much faster, right?

>HEN used his GOB to pull out two swords that abilities caught her offguard while he stood in the same place?
He straight up over powers her. It doesn't matter how many swords he had again if she was fast enough to blitz. Are you ill? Do you not understand what it means to be so fast that someone can't react to you?
>Tokiomi is the only
Play the fucking games. Gilgamesh under Tine has Bs and As. Gilgamesh summoned by himself on the moon cell has Bs and As. Hakuno was a shit master originally, while Gilgamesh's stats were depleted thanks to being on the darkside of the moon. Guda is also a shit master who can't even let Karna and Herc use their respective armors.
>Are you retarded?
No comeback. Concession accepted.

Canonically, Saver(Buddha) and Kiara (Demonic Buddha). They're both far beyond the capability of an Anti-World NP.

Plot armor aside, no one can defeat the Noble Orgasm.

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Fsf works on ttrpg rules.
Shirou had saved his action to react to Berserker.
Talking is a free action.
In truth, there's really only tree different speeds: normal/human, super speed, godspeed.
Everything makes more sense of you look from this point of view

Holy Grail Wars is quite literally a scam. It was originally create and then rigged so that the three knight classes are the strongest. The other remaining classes are bait. By extension all the classes, are just fodder to reach Heaven's Feel as they had never had any intentions of granting a wish to the winning Servant.

So FGO Gilgakek is the strongest Gilgakek?

CCC is.

CCC is the strongest physically
FSF is the most competent and has the best, most stable mentality.

>"Pfft, I'll just throw this key away even though in the right hands it could be used to completely cripple me."

I said MOST competent; every Gil still has the dumb pride flaw, but the other Gils have done much worse and use their powers much more inefficiently. Ishtar getting summoned is massive bullshit that couldn't happen unless Fate itself was actively trying to fuck him over.

I don't know user, FGO Gil was pretty competent as a Caster until he died of overworking like a japanese salaryman.

Me, Heroic Spirit Anonymous of the Caster class, using my Noble Phantasm, Yea Forums Thread, a Reality Marble-like ability, to post jobber memes until he actually becomes the biggest jobber in existence and dies to a stiff breeze.

CCC Gil is way more competent. And if you wanna go into maximum competence, then the King of Uruk who fought to protect his kingdom in Seventh Singularity is the most competent version to date.

CCC Gilgamesh was horribly incompetent. He automatically refuses to strengthen himself because he wants his master to do it. He leaves everything up to Hakuno and just fights when required. Often, his fights against the big boys need Hakuno, Rin and the others to nerf them.
>GO
That's Casgil whose his weakest incarnation. I went with FSF for a balance.

That's only because he designated himself as but a mere observer. He didn't really care what happened. He had no stake. But once he acknowledged Hakuno as his proper Master and declared B.B. as his enemy, he stopped fucking around.

>That's Casgil whose his weakest incarnation
That would be Gilgamesh (kid).

FSF Gilgamesh is the best Gilgamesh because Narita is better at writing fights and handling powers than Nasu and the others. FSF Gilgamesh actually fights like someone who's supposed to have thousands of noble phantasms.

Yeah, Once gilgamesh started aiming at the gaps between his pelt and using the passive effects of his NP's like a lightning dragon, heracles couldn't do anything. He ironically got posion by a hydra arrow. And just as gil was about to finish him off ishtar closed of his Gate of Babylon.

You can't really portray that in a game like Fate/EXTRA. Besides, he does use a bunch of Noble Phantasms. Every attack animation uses a different weapon and all his skills utilize different tools. But that's the limit of what you can portray with gameplay. In order to properly portray the versatility of his treasury, you'd need to give Gilgamesh literally thousands of different animations.

Gilgamesh actually does fight like that in Fate/stay night. When he fought Saber after her date with Shirou, he attacked her with different weapons, making it impossible for her to counter. She had to be careful as each weapon could have a different effect. He was weaker than her in terms of skill, but he overturned that with superior numbers. Using different Noble Phantasms to keep the enemy on their toes while also backing himself up with swordspam. These are all tactics that he used against Saber in the Fate route. Fate/strange fake didn't do anything new.

For some reason, peoples' perceptions of Gilgamesh are colored almost entirely by Unlimited Blade Works. No one ever pays any heed to the fact that he actually put a little more effort into it in his fights with Saber. People think that all Gilgamesh does is stand around and swordspam, but he's only ever done that in two routes.

Vs saber all gil has to do is fight the same way he thought against Avenger Alcides--> Staying on Vimana on strategically using the passive abilities of his NPs to wear her down. Saber doesn't have avalon when summoned so thats irrelevant. Even if she does, using it vs sword spam would be a waste since you can't move when using it. Also gil would plan against it.

>Archer Hercules
Lol no, avenger hercules got bitchslap by serious gil even after being power up by the mud and losing his divinity.
>Prisma Illya Shirou Emiya Archer Card
A serious gil? No, he'll just go on vimana and GoB his ass while charging Ea. Come to think of it, that works on all servants.

He didn't see it coming so he couldn't plan against it. There are certain things he can't really plan against. For instance, against Karna, it's difficult for him to plan against Vasavi Shakti because there's no myths of it ever being used.

No. Lightning dragon was Enkidu+GoB combo against Richard. And Alcides was matching GoB fire with Nine Lives. There was no winner or loser until Ishtar arrived.
FSF Gilgamesh uses shield and lightning noble phantasms. I won't argue any more than this because it should suffice for how many leagues different a fighter he is than his other incarnations

Archer Heracles wouldn't be the same as Alcides. There are various principle differences in terms of kit. Archer Heracles would have God Hand; this is something he'd have regardless of what class he's summoned under. It's the core part of what makes Heracles a hero, the thing that makes him Heracles. Because Alcides loses his divinity and thus loses God Hand, he was given King's Order as a replacement. But let's be frank; God Hand is undeniably better than King's Order. A sane Heracles with God Hand would destroy Alcides.

Gilgamesh would probably have a hard time against a true Archer Heracles.

>Gilgamesh

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If he felt the shield or lightning were necessary, he'd use them. His treasury is nearly limitless. Why do you think he needs to use those specific weapons?

>no "I am not gonna take you serious bs"
Then you're not asking about Gil. His pride is inseparable from his character.

Vs most servants God hand would be better than king's order however against Gilgamesh who has 1000s of NPs that could killed heracles, king's order is magnitudes better. Also Alcides was even further power up since he stoled Jack's NP and he was still getting his ass kicked lol

but he totally counters ozy

Because it's shown versatility far more than regular Gilgamesh displays. Fucking used Enkidu for an attack in a variation that we've never seen the actual Enkidu even do before. He does everything Gilgamesh regularly does and so much more.

He uses Enkidu for attacks in Fate/unlimited codes and Fate/Grand Order.

not as a lightning dragon

What are you smokling? Alcides is far stronger than Archer Heracles.

>God Hand
A worthless noble phantasm that can be bypassed by a strong enough nuke like Excalibur.
>Because Alcides loses his divinity
Alcides in turn gains more than King's Order (which is far more broken than God Hand), he gets Avenger bonuses that lets him tank Hydra Poison, which was confirmed to be able to take ALL TWELVE of God Hand's lives in one shot. He also gets Reincarnation Pandora, letting him steal even conceptual noble phantasms. Now Alcides has absorbed From Hell, magnifying his magic power by several times.

He is far, FAR stronger than baseline Heracles. Sane or not. We already knew Herc as a heroic spirit was weaker than Gilgamesh already in world materials. Stop wanking this dude.

Not at all. Archer Heracles automatically comes with the Pelt of the Divine Beast. Put that together with God Hand and his toughness is unparalleled.

Here's the thing about Alcides: at most, he has two lives. One of his Labors grants him Chiron's immortality. But that's just a single-use resurrection. He can die once and still come back to life, but that's it. God Hand allows for eleven resurrections. Which is better is obvious.

You stupid nigger, how the fuck many Noble Phantasms on the level of Excalibur do you think there are?

>Pelt of the Divine Beast.
The Pelt is a part of King's Order, which he wouldn't have as Archer.

At least 13 comparable. Most top-tier servants have something on that level, which is who Herc would need something like God Hand against the most in the first place.

>how the fuck many Noble Phantasms on the level of Excalibur do you think there are?
Too many. Excalibur was powercreeped hard at base.

How many Grand servants have been revealed so far?

Not many, but we're talking about him fighting against Gilgamesh. Ea is more power than Excalibur and Gil also has several other high ranking phantasm like gram and the hydra poison he used.

Nope. Depending on the class, Heracles comes with different Noble Phantasms in addition to God Hand. In the case of Archer, it's the Pelt and the Bow of the Hydra. Nine Lives is a technique and thus is always available as long as he has the intelligence and dexterity to use it. Berserker is an exception since in that class, he only gets God Hand.

When he was turned into Alcides, he lost God Hand, but in exchange he received tools relating to all Twelve Labors. Ordinarily, he'd only get one or two tools depending on the class, but as Alcides he gets them all in exchange for his immortality. That said, some of them are nerfed compared to what they'd normally be due to his lack of divinity and refusal to accept divinity into his body.

2.

Alcides true can beat him with enough preparations

>it's the Pelt
Again, no. The Pelt is one of the noble phantasms factored into King's Order so he cannot have had that as Archer. If he did, please cite the scene before he was contaminated by the mud.
>That said, some of them are nerfed compared to what they'd normally be due to his lack of divinity
If you're referring to Cerberus. It's nerfed because of Hades not using it, not his divinity. I don't recall a single of his NPs that's been nerfed because of his lost divinity.

Three: Merlin, Solomon and King Hassan. A fourth has been hinted at in lB4 but not shown or had his identity revealed.

Yes and so does Batman.

Even if the pelt was included as an Archer, it'd be useless vs gilgamesh who already knows how to get around it.

> I don't recall a single of his NPs that's been nerfed because of his lost divinity
Well not really a nerf, but he doesn't used his Sash of the war god to strengthen his body because he doesn't want any divinity flowing in his body..

Didn't King Hassan lost his grand servant category during Babylon?

Enuma Elish
Enuma Elish
Angra Mainyu CCC
Kama's NP
Ars Almadel
Vasavi Shatki
EXcalibur
Dendera
Rhongomyniad
Stella
Excalibur Galatine (Sun)
Xiucoatl/ Piedra Del Sol
Ishtar's NP
Maha Pralaya
Teardrop Photon Ray
Pashupata
Final Buddha Palm
Pandemonium Cetus
Buddha's NPs (both of them)
Loki Loptwhatever
Sarasvati Meltout
Cursed Cutting Crater

This should cover the bulk of it. I might be missing a few.

Dude, he was literally summoned with the pelt before he was forcibly turned into an Alter.

So nothing new since I dropped the game because it didn't give me UMUs. I am still betting for Grand Archer Gil.

I was referring to strange fake's dialogue

Gilgamesh has no desire for the Grand title. In fact, none of the Grands shown so far seem to have any real attachment to being a Grand. Merlin hates it and King Hassan threw it away like he didn't give a shit. Solomon (true) didn't seem to have any interest whatsoever.

Cite the scene. I've heard this before. I checked and did not see it. I see him putting AFTER corruption, not before.

Pretty sure he said he doesn't choose to wear it around himself, but he does use it as a weapon, externally.

So you trust Alcides? He isn't exactly objective and got BTFO in vol 5

Yeah i know, but he kinda nerfs himself by not using that NP to its full potential.

Not that guy, but how the fuck does Heracles shit works? I know as Berserker he only has God Hand cause he gets stupid but how is his shit even divided among the other classes?

>No new posts
Was going to do this but thanks. Sorry, but if anyone thinks Excalibur is a special snowflake NP (at least base Excalibur), they're going to be disappointed. Consider this: Saber Alter and Excalibur Morgan is the FIRST boss/obstacle you face in Grand Order, back in 2015. Let that sink in.

He has an NP that lets him see the future. He just never makes use of it because any time he sees a course of actions that lead to a future in which he loses, he disregards it as untrue rubbish and does what he wants anyway.

when did this happen

The scene in question has him removing it from his shoulders after he was corrupted and placing it over his head. It was already around his shoulders upon summoning. All of the NPs from King's Order are things he has in other classes.

>He spread the cloth that he had been wearing on his shoulders, and draped it over his head so that it concealed his face.
Volume 3.
He was wearing the pelt since before he got Altered. King's Order is something he only got after he was Altered. We literally see him get Altered in this very scene, so if the pelt was already there, it means it existed independently of King's Order.

Grand Order isn't canon.
Sorry, brainlet Gachafag.

>The scene in question has him removing it from his shoulders after he was corrupted and placing it over his head
So we only see it after the corruption. Why are we still arguing this?
> All of the NPs from King's Order are things he has in other classes.
No. They are the NPs he had at points during life, which don't automatically get distributed to classes. Some might, but not all. Example: Saber having Rhongyminiad as a spear is highly irregular and she's not even Artoria when summoned with it.

Even then, we wouldn't know if the pelt would be something he'd have as Archer instead of another class.

Okay, fair enough then.

Wrong bitch but let me guess, it doesn't count right.

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No, he already had it around his shoulders. The scene describes how he changes. Nowhere does it mention his pelt suddenly appearing around his shoulders. It just talks about how his stature and skin change. The pelt was already present.

user, just because it makes money from retards like you doesn't make it any more canon than your doujin collection of Rin pleasing old men for money.

You can't compare that to Rhongomyniad. Saber can't be summoned with Rhongomyniad because she didn't have it on her when she made the contract with the world. Saber isn't in the Throne of Heroes, so she can't come with any weapons that she didn't have on her person.

Also, a timeline in which King Arthur favored Rhongomyniad over Excalibur probably doesn't exist in the Human Order's Panhistory.

Based capitulating to mobage slaves.

volume 5

A Japanese teenager.

He uses the weapon's actual effects against Saber in the Fate route, and utterly wrecks her in a straight swordfight then, because lol shirou as a mana source and the fact that she couldn't actually block half the attacks because for all she knew they'd explode or some shit

>what servant can beat him
>can beat him
>can
Plenty of Servants CAN beat him.

The question is how regularly they could pull it off.

Include Gram as well. Strongest demonic sword stated to be equal to the strongest holy sword (which is Excalibur).

Is Arthur better than Arthuria as a Saber?

GO is weird, somehow makes canon Apocrypha when it's supposed to be a different universe.

His Excalibur is conditionally stronger and he has the same skills but worse luck, so he wouldn't survive Gae Bolg for example

Everything is canon, just different timelines.
Hell, in one interview Nasu tried to make Prillya canon before the KALMIA said it was fundamentally incompatible with Nasu's work.

?
If you mean the FGO x Apoc collab then they outright said it's a different world in the prologue text

Fuck modern Nasu.
He became a hack.

>became

>he
>became

Nasu hasn't given a shit about stuff he has been involved in since 2016

Nice response time.
But yes.
He lost what little integrity he had for money.

Reminder that the first two parallel worlds in Nasuverse are Kara no Kyoukai and Tsukihime, and this was confirmed by Nasu in 2001.

Nigger he was a fucking hack since the VN and Extra

Isn't Gordito related to the fat guy from Apocrypha?

FGO literally killed Fate.

>so he wouldn't survive Gae Bolg for example
That's not quite how it works. Gae Bolg doesn't you to have a certain luck rank for it to miss, higher luck just increases the likelyhood of it missing. So, for example, lets say A rank luck gives you a 25% chance of you dodging it, B rank luck would give you 12% then C rank 5% etc.

All things being equal, here are their stats under the same Master:
>Altria
>Strength: B / Endurance: B / Agility: B / Mana: B / Luck: A+ / NP: A++
>Class Skills: Magic Resistance A, Riding B
>Personal Skills: Charisma B, Instinct A, Mana Burst A
>Noble Phantasm: Excalibur (Anti-Fortress A++)

>Arthur (Proto)
>Strength: A / Endurance: A+ / Agility: B / Mana: B / Luck: B / NP: EX
>Class Skills: Magic Resistance A, Riding B
>Personal Skills: Mana Bust A, Instinct A, Giant Beast Hunter A, Charisma B
>Noble Phantasm: Excalibur Proto (Anti-Fortress EX), ??? (??? ???)

That said, in Fate/Grand Order, only six of Excalibur Proto's thirteen seals are unlocked, so it can't display its full power as an EX-ranked Holy Sword. Excalibur's full power is also sealed, but unlocking at least one of the seals brings its power up to A++ Anti-Fortress class. We can probably assume that in their sealed states, they're at about the same level.
Proto Saber has higher Strength and Endurance, while Saber has higher Luck. Proto Saber has the edge when fighting giant beasts for some reason as well.

Yes but he is from FGO timeline, not Apoc timeline.
The same goes for Sion in FGO, btw.

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From everything we've seen of Enkidu, it's very likely that (ironically) he held back against Gilgamesh because he liked him and could have defeated him with relative ease if he wished.

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Are you implying Nasu is a woman?

Adding to this

It's possible we've seen a proper, unsealed Excalibur in Extella, though we don't know the wielder. It's likely it was Artoria, as she was who the Moon Cell summoned as a last resort nuke everything button.

It being Excalibur matches the fact that Nasu's said it's designed around destroying alien creatures such as TYPES, or in this case the White Titan that basically brought the entire age of gods world to it's knees.

Nasu's a mushroom

He didn't like Gil when they first met when they both truly fought at their best. As heroic spirits, Gil is probably stronger since he gained the conceptual addition to GoB

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Saber also received a skill called "Radiant Road EX", though we don't really know what it does lorewise.

milkies

>men are stronger than women, but women are "luckier" - Nasu
sasuga

Wait is Nasu's sex unconfirmed?

Yes. All of Nasu's personal info is redacted.
We only know he wrote for some jaoanese d&d magazine, where he went to university and that he lived in Takeuchi's basement for a while.
It's likely that Kinoko Nasu is a pen name, given it means Mushroom Eggplant.
The guy google shows as kinoko nasu is actually one of Ufotable's higher ups.
There's an old photo of Takeuchi floating around tho

Well you learn something new everyday. Imagine the shitposting if it turned out Nasu was a girl

nasu is guaranteed to be a woman. no man would write like she does.

I wonder about that. Wada Arco's fetishes aren't normally what you'd expect from a woman.

>no man would write like she does.
I'm not familiar with the differences when it comes to male and female writing. Explain.

In the Fate route he gets serious enough to use Ea against Saber.
With Avalon, she beats him.

Canonically the only Servant that can go toe to toe with Gil is Edmond Dantes.

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>keep watching Last Encore for the hopes of a Buddha rematch
>Twice: Wah-wah. Buddha left a long time ago

Goddamn piece of garbage anime.

It worked due to element of surprise, and thus wouldn't work again. Hell, if he used Sha Naqba Imuru it wouldn't work either. Also I don't think Ea forces him to stay in place anymore.

Edmond Dantes can rival Gil.
God Arjuna and Super Karna can put up a good fight.
Saber can win using Avalon.
EMIYA/Shirou can win with Unlimited Blade Works.
Berserker Lancelot can win with the hands of a competent Master.

And Gil just gets chomped by Sakura.

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>Also I don't think Ea forces him to stay in place anymore.
It doesn't. He just does it because striking a good pose reminds everybody of his magnificent kinghood.

This. Gil is just an arrogant motherfucker.

>Strongest servant
>Loses to a weakened child version of another servant with a less powerful version of his own ability
>Strongest servant

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It beats Gate of Babylon in the area that matters, so it fines.

Only a (straight) woman would write Shriou to be the perfect husband

UBW is an almost perfect counter to Gil's GoB, but the bigger part was that Gil didn't take Shirou seriously enough to use anything else/put effort in. Therefore it was because he was a kid version of EMIYA that he was able to take advantage of Gil's arrogance, which is really his only weakness.

Gil is practically a caveman. Please forgive his lack of finesse.

Dante's yeah
Shouldn't God Arjuna/super karna be above gil/heroic spirits?
Avalon is only useful if gil doesn't know about it, otherwise it's a mere annoyance
Emiya/shirou get stomp on by serious gil ubw or not
Lancelot just has no chance.

I wonder how Achilles would fare

Probably poorly due to Enkidu. Is it possible to outrun them? I imagine so, seeing as Cu fought him for 12 hours straight and wasn't just immediately grabbed and killed

avenger

Just aim for the heel lol

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>Raw stats, yes, strongest.
huh? Gil's stats are largely mediocre. His combat prowess comes from his equipment and the associated noble phantasms.

Funny Vamp Arcueid. Probably fucked up summoning Berserker Arcueid. BB with all of her bullshit and not trying to play sadodere with Hakuno(n). Nobu if she gets the jump on him. Full bullshit Karna. Enkidu. Papa Bones. Anyone with sufficient anti-Mystery/anti-Divinity abilities, so Raikoumama could probably take him.

But really, anyone can beat Gilgilman if they catch him while he's fucking about if he's not armored up.

Motherfucker two out of three is a supermajority of routes.

If Gil doesn't want to fuck you, he doesn't try until FSF.

It's best to ignore most of those skills they add as later strengthening quests in GO simply because they're just fluff justifications for buffing a character in-game. GO is fucking trash for several reasons, and bloating the skill in the series and having so many things that functionally do the same thing just for the sake of gameplay is one of them.

I love Bryn though.

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>God Arjuna and Super Karna can put up a good fight
They outright stomp him just based on raw power. Arjuna and Karna in their base forms are enough to put up a good fight against Gil by word of Nasu, so having all of the extra power that their upgrades gave is more than enough to do the deed.
If Gil knows about Avalon, he won't fall for it. Saber literally only had one chance to trick him in the VN, which is why she took some punishment first to get the timing down.
EMIYA/Shirou only have a chance if Gil just tries to match them in throwing weapons. The main reason he lost to Shirou was because he refused to kill him before he used UBW and then didn't pull out Ea when he should've.
Lancelot really has no way to win once Gil gets pissy with him. Lancelot was able to keep up when Gil wasn't firing at max capacity, but Gil firing on full is going to either be too much to handle or Lancelot will drain his master dry while trying to deflect hundreds of weapons.

NOW I WILL TIP MY FEDORA GILLYBOY.

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Cu has the benefit of Protection from Arrows, which helps him avoid projectiles. Enkidu would probably be considered a projectile when he just shoots out chain links to try and grab you, so the skill would activate and give him the perfect awareness to dodge. Achilles could probably give Gil the runaround for awhile, but approaching and killing him may not work out so well if Gil has his armor on.

So long guys.

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Doc, you're 2 months too early

All Bs in physical stats isn't actually bad. It's pretty above average. He doesn't excel in any one area, but Bs aren't low. It's just that most servant who fight head on have one or two As in physical stats, especially now with GO giving everyone As and EXs all over the place.

I wonder if they are going to announce Solomon anime adaption in Fes this year.
Also new Babylonia (and maybe Camelot too) PV and info tomorrow.

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Gil is like the perfect counter for Achilles:
>Invulnerability is negated by Divinity
>Enkidu works on Achilles' Divinity
>Shield blocks everything except Anti-World NPs, which Ea is

The only thing Achilles has going for him is his speed, and Gil undoubtedly has homing NPs in his vault so it's only a matter of time until he gets tagged.

should i start this game? I finished tsukihime and I'm like 30% done fate route, the story in this comes after fate/stay night canonically too? i don't want to deal with rerolling and spending money so if that's the case i'm not going to bother.

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Why are novel characters servants? I understand the whole "all mythological shit actually happened in the universe" but I'm pretty sure mid 1800's literature and modern literature in general is considered to be a different sphere of writing than classical mythology and folklore. This really isn't that much different than if Batman or Harry Potter were made into Servants.

>Grand Temple of Time: Solomon adaptation
I couldn't ask for anything more.

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In this universe, Edmond Dantes existed.

Gilgamesh is the perfect counter against a lot of Heroic spirits. His sheer variety of tools means that, if he actually felt like it, he could even go as far as reenact a hero's canonical downfall. Servants are weak against things that killed them in life, hence Heracles' weakness to hydra poison, and because Gilgamesh can figure out nearly any hero's name just by looking at them, it'd be easy.

But, well. It's Gilgamesh. It's not like Achilles stands no chance at all.

>the story in this comes after fate/stay night canonically too?
If you mean FGO then no it isn't a sequel of FSN, it is not in the same timeline with FSN. Even the 2004 HGW in FGO timeline is different from the FSN's.

It's roughly a decade after Stay Night timewise, though the game is in a similar but different universe to FSN
>I don't want to deal with rerolling and spending money so if that's the case i'm not going to bother.
FGO is reasonable to new players/f2p players, though I'd recommend throwing 5 bucks at a quartz account to start off with like 1k quartz so you can build a solid starting team

Though I wouldn't recommend it unless you're actually interested in a mobile game. It starts off bad, and has been slowly getting to the point where it's actually something worth playing. Skip all story till you hit Camelot, find a bond 10 herc on a friend's list it can solo everything up until babylon's mud when you're struggling. Pick up the more effective 1-3* units (off the top of my head, Mozart, Hans, Robin Hood, David, Cu, Bedivere [good fucking luck], Caesar, Ushi, Medea) and level those guys before you invest in 5*'s. Apply grails to characters you like. You can complete 99% of FGO without touching a single gold unit.

Esto es el fin el rubio.

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Id like to see gil.vs Primate Murder

He'd fucking die. No chance.

Kid Gil would probably murder him. He's always saying how he absolutely never wants to see his older self, since it would almost definitely end with them trying to kill each other. Which probably means Kid Gil will immediately chain him up and slice his head off or something.

I understand that but aren't Heroic Spirits supposed to be mythological/historical figures? A book character is neither of those.

That user means Nasuverse Dantes is a real person in Nasuverse, not just a book character. The same goes for Holmes too btw.
This was brought up again in the latest FSF vol too iirc.

Well, here's the thing. If you existed and you achieve a sufficient degree of fame and performed the appropriate deeds, then even if people only think of you as a fictional character, you'll still be recorded into the Throne of Heroes. In this universe, Edmond Dantes was a human who really existed. Thus, even though everyone believes The Count of Monte Cristo is a fictional tale, Dantes himself still receives the benefits from that. Though in his case, it might be more of a curse.

Many now mythological figures were the equivalent of book characters user.
In a few hundred years it wouldn't be surprising if people discuss fucking marvel characters in the same sort of light

Also Dantes is an actual real person in Nasuverse

vn says that heroic spirits come from myths,legend,fables

Well, even then, the Age of the Gods was an actual thing, so a lot of those myths were real.

Nasu is a man.

There is a photo of Nasu but only a photo of his hands and the black and white photo, you can see hairy knuckles.

Some Type Moon English blog used to host the article of this interview and Yea Forums used to post pictures of Nasu's hairy knuckles either on Yea Forums or /jp/.

Don't know if the archive still has the images though.

Isn't Kid Gil a lot weaker though?

Kid Gil is merciless. He's more easy-going, but he probably knows all of Gil's weaknesses and will abuse the fuck out of them to murder him quickly and efficiently. He hates his adult self to that extent.

Wasn't the ritual designed to be unbalanced in the first place to make reaching the Grail more convenient? Someone in the know would just summon the right servants to eliminate the ones at a disadvantage, then arrange to get rid of those remaining to complete the ritual. A more balanced field might lead to disaster if the other summoners should have their own agendas.

Fate was never about fighting for grails or about servants, this is what GO gets wrong. What made F/SN good were the themes about morality and self sacrifice vs selfishness. The best characters in F/SN are Shirou, Kotomine, and Archer for this reason. This is also why F/Z is the only good direct spin off of F/SN, because it understood what made F/SN good and built upon it. The 3 main focal points of F/SN are kiritsugu's morality (and how it contrasts with Shirou's), Kotomine awakening to his true nature (which finally made Gil an interesting character instead of the psychopathic Saber orbiter he was in F/SN), and Saber's idea of kingship vs Rider and Gilgamesh's. Every other spinoff of Fate has always made the critical error of focusing on the idea of servants, and they've had some pretty cool ones like Vlad and Karna, but they all lack the thematic linchpin that actual makes the story worth reading.

Not enough mana for ea or sustained use of Gate of Babylon but since adult gil can't recognize his child self he'll likely underestimate himself

How many LNs/VNs are in the FSN timeline?

>All the stories must follow the same themes

Are you fucking high? God Arjuna is the combination of every curry god. The CURRIES, the DBZfag pantheon. He was blowing up the planet and remaking it for shits and giggles. Gilgamesh gets raped up the ass. He can't even scratch Arjuna.

Only Case Files. F/Z is still considered a slightly different timeline from FSN but it doesn't really matter much.

He wasn't "blowing up the planet". He can't touch the planet. He doesn't have that kind of authority. No matter how many gods you shove together, they can't do anything against the planet itself. Even Goetia, despite gathering an absurd amount of energy by incinerating human history, can't do anything to the planet.

>Only Case Files

The more tucked away aspects of the Nasuverse that don't usually get the spotlight are pretty interesting and deserve more coverage, so I'm happy it exists for that reason at least. But now that we've got something that looks in depth at the clock tower, something about the church would be nice. All we've gotten so far is scraps from Ciel and Kirei.

Why hasn't anyone yet mentioned Void, or even Arc?

The "Holy Church" is a much smaller body, though that body is made up of elites. The Holy Church is a more militant organization, so unlike the Clock Tower, it's not exactly something you could do a normal story around. There's also less mystery and intrigue surrounding. I mean, we already know who the founder was and his eventual fate.

>He wasn't "blowing up the planet"
Yes, he was you speedreader, play the game.
>blablabla
There is no precedence for the level of authority Arjuna Alter possess because he exists in a lostbelt. Maha Pralaya was so absurdly powerful that Holmes said it was too ridiculous to be called a noble phantasm. He didn't even say that about Goetia's AAS. And Arjuna was going to extend his reach to the galaxy.

>He wasn't "blowing up the planet". He can't touch the planet.
Planet cannot be blown up because of the CF. You might want to think about what a lostbelt is. The human order got fucked up by something and has stopped functioning or is barely functional, so it had to be pruned. For LB4, it was Arjuna destroying and remaking the planet, deleting all impure humans and creating world peace...which for some reason, is a bad thing in Nasuland according to Holmes. Humanity's progress stopped completely so Arjuna has overcome the counter force.

Reminder that the ufo's version of UBW actually had to rewrite Gil's lines and actions to make him more like his F/Z self.

How do UBW fans justify this?

It's bad because humanity can't advance anymore. Arjuna is literally keeping humanity at a standstill. Human Order doesn't care about world piece, it only cares about whether humanity can keep moving forward. A utopia where nothing changes and everything stays the same forever is worthless to the Human Order.

It was fine and Nasu approved of it so I see no reason to be mad.

Fate servant stats mean as much as Jojo stand stats. They're a fucking joke, just like the rules of the series

Actual Grand Saber can beat him

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>had to rewrite Gil's lines and actions to make him more like his F/Z self.
But they didn't? Gil was pretty much like this in the VN, which is a shame because F/Z Gil was much better.

Dantes, First Hassan, Berserker Lancelot and Benkei (False)

Who?

Solomon Muto

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Got'em!

Cu fought him for hours and fucked him up by the end before dying despite fighting in really bad circumstances in the Fate route.

doge was under a command seal that he can't attack Gil and Gil being retarded as hell

Gram has been retconned to be even weaker than Balmung.

Can you explain it?

*block your path*

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It's an A rank Anti-Unit NP. Sigurd can boost it up to almost A+ Anti-Fortress but it's his own power instead of the sword and it counts as a different NP. Balmung is now EX Anti-Army.

Even without Grand status he can easily kick Gil's ass.

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Looking like Gordeau from UNIEL in that particular picture.

Here we go.

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Have you already forger about me fuckers?

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Fuck off Reddit.

The first part of that fight was Cu and Gil going for sucker punches at the same time.

I wish they didn't give Gil clairvoyance. Completely ruin the balance for no lore reason. Isn't his hack Gate of Babylon enough?

The entire point of his character was to ruin the balance. That is literally the whole reason he exists at all.

Unbased and Bluepilled Zerofag.

Some goods from the Babylonia exhibition
fgo-babylonia-exhibition.jp/goods.html

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and that's just no fun

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>What are you smokling? Alcides is far stronger than Archer Heracles.

Your opinion is invalid, when it's been quite literally stated Archer Herc is better.

>enkidu
why are they still bothering to keep the facade up. The whole enkidu is actually kingu reveal is like 1 ep into the story

Nah, he went full force. Enkidu said that he and Gil like to fight to death, no matter if they took each other's head or heart. Now I wonder if their hidden NPs are related. I remember speculations going around that they could be combined or something and with the way SF vol.5 ended, I wouldn't erase the possibility.

About SF: Any guesses what "Watcher" is? It's difficult to find a servant like him when its' shadows take the forms of many notable figures.

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Wrong. Archer Herc is weak shit than can't compare to Alcides.

yeah but it's still a spoiler for animeonlies tho

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>animeonlies
>for a 10 hour story that you can youtube
Ho boy

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This. He has the exact same abilities as Gil + he has better stats, making him objectively stronger than Gil.
Only reason they were tied when the fought while they were alive is that Gil wasn't reducing his divinity like he is as a servant, which probably account for the stat loss, otherwise he would have lost against Enkidu.

Aren't Enkidu and Kingu the same at the end of the order. I remember the Enkidu you summon in FGO says he remembers the events in Babylonia and later they confirm that no matter the soul that is inside the body of Enkidu, they eventually become Enkidu since it's the body and not the soul that was recorder to the Throne.

Gilgamesh has clairvoyance and stats don't actually matter in a fight like that. They were fighting to kill each other at first and then it eventually devolved to them just spamming swords at each other until they both ran out.

Also, Gilgamesh becomes more powerful as time goes on, as his treasury becomes larger as humanity advances.

Obligatory

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He's not the grand berserker

Are you dare talk back to fujoshi.

Why'd Pako give him an even bigger bulge?

Once a servant is given grand status, even if he gives up that status, he can still at least fight equally with Gilgamesh

To be fair God Arjuna is not a servant and comes from a Lostbelt, so obviously he can't be Grand Berserker (the summonable version aka Arjuna Alter is much weaker than the one we fought in LB4).
Speaking of which, i wonder if Daybit's Grand servant is a Berserker or not.

Nasu has been buffing Gil so much lately, I have no idea, and I don't know why anyone cares. The last I looked, he was some kind of anti-servant servant grander than grand servants, judge of mankind or whatever

I'm still salty about LB4, why didn't we get more powerhouses like Krishna or duryodhana? Literally the entire conflict revolves around Arjuna and karna. What a load of bullshit

>Proto Saber has the edge when fighting giant beasts for some reason as well.

Iirc it has to do with legends telling about him fighting actual giants alone, which where taken to his lore. He's basically a giant slayer.

Saber fought giant beasts too. A giant boar, a giant dragon and other shit.

Liz love

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And Artoria has Charisma while Arthur has Giant Slayer trait.

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They needed to come up with some skill to make him different from her in GO so he wouldn’t be just Saber but worse

Originally he didn’t have this skill in Fragments

Officially, Arthur has Charisma, but it's not reflected in gameplay since there's a maximum of three active skills allowed. He has everything Altria has.

Based on the art for Part 2, it looks like Saber's getting Avalon at some point. Might be a separate unique unit.

>Based on the art for Part 2, it looks like Saber's getting Avalon at some point
Just like when Saber appeared in Part 1 right? Oh yeah, she did appear in Part 1, in a flashback, lmao.

She did appear. She was one of the first SSR units.

I thought the reason was that whole “servants are containers” and they limit the hero by default, so Artoria would be more suited for all-around combat while Arthur more suited to fight beasts.
Not that they are different, more like they got summoned focusing in an aspect of each.

So what's happening in StrangeFake anyway? Last I remember, Hercules stole someone's NP and went kaiju mode.

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hello jobber

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Hercules and Gil both got hydra poisoned. And that’s it for that volume.

I love how Alcides was the last rampart for the "Gil is shit and not the strongest by far lmao" and now he needed three divine interventions that are PTSD inducing to his ennmy to get him out of GoB wrecking his shit.
Couldn't even begin to stand a poisn that Gil literally shrugged off and addmited he needed a whole day of preparation top even stand a chance against Gil.
Ther absolute state of Gil haters.

GilChads always win.

t. assblasting giltard

RP is pretty broken

Whoever designs Musashi has my thumb up. Not a Saberface but still super attractive. She can be cute and sexy at the same time. Her costume is perhaps one of the most beautiful among female servants. Just perfect

What about Merodach or what's it called that Gil used in Fate route? It's supposed to be prototype of both Caliburn and Gram.

>Whoever designs Musashi
Scathach artist

Merodach is superior to Caliburn and at least A-rank by default, but still weaker than Excalibur.

> Not a Saberface
No, but a Aoko face, not much better.

Funny Vamp Arc
Berserker Kanata
Saber Ado Edem
Caster Zelretch

They're probably all going to happen eventually. Except Kanata, since even not even Nasu remembers DDD.

No one remembers Kanata.

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We will never know if she will keep her Sora no Soto powerup after it because Nasu will never ever finish DDD

It wasn't even a powerup, it was just an exploit of Okumaneko's universe. She'd be a nightmare in the main Nasuverse because shit like living planets are actually a thing, whereas she'd probably just be a nuisance in the real world because nothing living is strong enough for her to cause serious damage.

Haha no. He even jobs to a little dragon girl.

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Isn't UBW a counter to Gilgamesh? If Shirou won then full strength Archer should win harder.

The strongest? No.
The hottest? Yes obviously.

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Literally the cutest AND strongest servant in Fate

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OP talks about serious Gil.

I'd call you a dumb secondary but even secondaries should understand this. Let me explain it to you in simple terms:
Shirou won because Gil didn't take him seriously at all. If Gil had taken him seriously, Shirou would be dead. If Archer was fighting Gil, Gil would take him a lot more seriously than he took Shirou, hence Archer would lose spectacularly.

Shirou is a counter to Gilgamesh, because kinpika will never take a japanese high school student seriously in a fight. And UBW can counter GoB as long as Shirou has mana.
Archer is an actual Dervant, so goldie would take it more seriously

technically all the other servants have a ultimate im strong move. gilgamesh doesnt. this is actually pointed out. his collection of weapons all have some use though most are just glorified throwing knives but he cant use any past it as a simple weapon

example assassin in arc 1 archer dies and arc 2 archer lives can do a 3 swing at 1 time. not back to back but at 1 time. gil cant. saber has the laser attack gil cant do that . if they just use their ultimate as their opening they might stand a chance

Truly serious Gil dies from overworking

Gil is the ORIGINAL salaryman

>Edmond Dantes
Yes
>God Arjuna and Super Karna
Not servant containers at that point
>Saber can win using Avalon.
With the element of surprise, yes
>EMIYA/Shirou can win with Unlimited Blade Works.
Not against serious Gil
>Berserker Lancelot
lmao no

Solomon would be a pretty short OVA and they'd skip the pillar fights because that's incredibly repetitive

Of course. Let me give you the rundown
>divine spirits bow to Gilgamesh
>in contact with Types
>possesses clairvoyance-like abilities
>controls Uruk with a fair but iron fist
>was the first hero ever recorded
>owns all the treasures of the world
>direct descendant of the ancient divine bloodline
>will bankroll the first city-states in Babylonia (Uruk will be the first city)
>all Saint Quartz trace their existence back to his vault
>practices Prima Nocta, 99% of humanity can trace their ancestry to Gil
>first post-humans will look like Gil
>said to have 215+ IQ, such intelligence on Earth has only existed deep in temples of Ishtar & the Cedar Forest
>defeated Huwawa and Gugalanna
>ancient Babylonian scriptures tell of a demigod who will descend upon Earth and bring an era of enlightenment and unprecedented technological progress with him
>founded /fgog/ and /fgoalter/
>you are reading his thread right now
>Gilgamesh is in regular communication with the Director and the Pope, forwarding the word of Gil to the Church and Association. Who do you think set up the meeting between the Director, the Pope and Zelretch (first meeting between the three powers in over 2000 years) and arranged Chaldea's first trip to Babylonia in history literally a few day's travel from Uruk itself?
>learned fluent Japanese in under a week
>judges the dead in the Underworld
>built a wall and made other city states pay for it
>nation states trust their gold reserves with Gil. There's no gold in Ft. Knox, only Ft. Uruk
>He appears about 3 decades old, from the space-time reference point of the base human currently accepted by our society
>in reality, he is a timeless being existing in the Throne of Heroes at all points in time and space from the big bang to the end of the universe. We don't know his ultimate plans yet. We hope he's a benevolent being.

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>thinks it was actually nasu

pretty much

Enkidu can match GoB spam and Ea, but doesn't have access to shit like Vimana, magical nukes, FTL spaceships and whatever else GoB's conceptual shenanigans give Gil. Gil as a servant is more versatile than he was in life although he has lower stats and less mana.

>Nasu is a SBRtard.
In what way? And who exactly is related?

Jets with a Chainsaw.

Watcher is just a bunch of personalities switching in a shell. It's just there to turn Sigma into True Lancer, whatever that means.

twitter.com/cimluxs_y/status/1156915902094295041
>what should you bring to FGO fes

>judge of mankind
A title he gives himself. It doesn't mean anything.
>anti-servant
Because he has counters to practically all heroic spirits. That's been a thing since F/SN.
>grander than grand servants
Source?

Didn't know they had Nivea on Japan

>in contact with Types
This is pretty funny. I love the idea of Gil being bombarded with incomprehensible space communication and occasionally being called a fag by CMB while V/V rifs in his general direction.

>gilgamesh doesnt
Enuma Elish? No one else has that, Enkidu's is not the same. No one has the Chains of Heaven either.
>is collection of weapons all have some use though most are just glorified throwing knives but he cant use any past it as a simple weapon
But GoB IS his weapon. That's why he is an Archer.

>>founded /fgog/ and /fgoalter/
What the fuck I love Gil now

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Earthlings can't comprehend the true form of Venusian Folk Songs

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>Kiara
Add kama as well

you forgot Ars Solomon and Saṃsāra Kama

>Kama's NP
>Ars Almadel
No he didn't

Do you mean Ars Almadel Salomonis? We don't really know how strong it is without burning humans for energy

Fuck I am blind, the list is so fucking big that I missed them

>TMF : Well, well, the last question of the interview. If Gilgamesh was serious when he was fighting Saber, who would win?

>U : The problem is that a serious Gilgamesh does not exist. But if it ever happened and he fought Saber, none would win. It was Nasu who said it.

What did Gen Urobuchi mean by this?

Secondary.
Tertiary (or worse).

Solomon, KH.
Absolutely. Grand Caster Solomon is too OP, when he had back up from God he is omnipotent.

>let me just call you a secondary, that would teach you
Oh Gilkeks, when will you learn.

>please spoonfeed me
If you had played the VN, you'd know.

>Heh read the VN
>yeah, so now I don't need to give a good argument
lol

>The VN
>Which at best says Giltrash is the strongest heroic spirit/servant, circa 2004
>Arjuna isn't even a hero, isn't even a servant, wasn't even DEAD
Based quartemarybro

>but doesn't have access to shit like Vimana, magical nukes, FTL spaceships and whatever else GoB's conceptual shenanigans give Gil.
Yeah, all Enkidu has is bullshit regeneration, the highest stats among servants, beating even Karna/Herc, presence detection at the highest setting and unlimited backup from the planet like he was True Ancestor. What's that compared to Gil, amirite?

I'm not saying Enkidu is bad, but he had those things when he was alive and Gil's GoB was weaker and they couldn't beat each other. Gil is stronger now due to stronger GoB.

Enkidu suffers a nerf in a servant container like everyone else. But if he's summoned by the world, his power skyrockets due to his connection to the Earth and Gaia/Alaya lets his NP grows in power to threats to humanity and the planet. His overall power isn't static.

Any HS power skyrockets when summoned by the world, that's generally why servant containers are used in the stories to make everything more even

gil is literally the strongest servant.
his epic inspired several other hero stories.

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Isn't the point in F/SN that no one recognizes him because he's relatively obscure but he's insanely powerful despite that?

>Any HS power skyrockets when summoned by the world,
Not true. A container always has limits. What the world provides is as much mana as possible, but you can already get something like that with a grail and as we know, there are still limitations to how strong you can get. Like you can have an endless fuel supply but your tank can't exceed its own parameters. Enkidu needs the world to reach full power and Nasu equated it to something disgusting like Arcueid. Not to mention GO has shown us servants summoned by the world and they're still not powerhouses. Don't confuse that for grands which are another beast entirely.

>Enkidu needs the world to reach full power
That's not his full-power, it'd be overspec'ing. The rest is correct though.

Based GilChad

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Enkidu is basically a CG and benefits more from extra mana than most, but I doubt he's on Arc's level. If we ignore the likelihood of the planet preferring Arc over Enkidu, doesn't Arc beat almost anyone who relies on physical stats due to always being +1 on top?

>picture of enkidu leaving the flowers at humbaba's grave
>gil dressed as he did after enkidu died
hmm

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bro that is the old version
pastebin.com/98kLFNSj

yeah, no one recognizes him but almost every hero is inspired by him

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>but I doubt he's on Arc's level.
What Nasu said was that his ability to have A+ stats is something Arc does. Gods are the planet, elementals like Arc but inferior. Enkidu's their greatest creation and has massive affinity for the planet. To the point that both Gaia and Alaya will award him all their mana for his NP. Arc is likely more impressive still though. Ultimate One skill basically defines being the strongest on your planet.
>doesn't Arc beat almost anyone who relies on physical stats due to always being +1 on top?
There are limits. Arc doesn't do too well against attacks like GoB/AoB because it's more than stats. She's suited to someone like Herc/Karna, not spammers like Emiya/Gil/Enkidu. IIRC, Nasu stated her cap at 30% is around 4 servants total.

30% Arc without backup (and nerfed) has similar but not quite as good base stats as Herc, whereas A:E is a completely different animal that hosts the will of Gaia itself. It's not impossible that Enkidu is comparable to a high-end TA, but then TAs in the Fate worldlines seem to be total bitches, so that doesn't necessarily mean much.

Nasu only ever compared Arc at 30% to servants, A:E has never been directly compared so it's kind of fruitless to consider her maximum potential in comparison.

>There are limits. Arc doesn't do too well against attacks like GoB/AoB because it's more than stats. She's suited to someone like Herc/Karna, not spammers like Emiya/Gil/Enkidu. IIRC, Nasu stated her cap at 30% is around 4 servants total.
That's what I was referring to. Gil is a bad matchup for Arc as he doesn't rely on raw strength at all, rather than his expansive treasury. But Enkidu is more stat reliant, so Arc would have a better chance against him.

>30% Arc without backup (and nerfed) has similar but not quite as good base stats as Herc
This is a lie. Nasu has never compared Arcuied to Herc in those specifications and there are many times when he never specifies which power level of Arc he's talking about.
>TAs in the Fate worldlines seem to be total bitches
What the fuck are you talking about? Hinako was a monster you couldn't beat until the plot decided you could. And even then you take down Qin, a fucking grand. too.

>Enkidu's transformation - it can change from physical to magical strength, tinkering with the five parameters of strength, endurance, agility, mana and luck, excepting NP. Maximum value will differ according to the Master. If the Master is the Earth, then all parameters are set at a base of A, with an additional variable points of 30 to be used freely. This can allow him to overspec to be A+ in every parameter. A disgusting thing that can also be done by a certain True Ancestor Princess.

The servants summoned by the World against the threat of the Lostbelts have weird boosts included in them. Napoleon points that out when they were fighting Ophelia which Surtr identified as a resistance from panhuman history. Likewise, Rakshimi was handed an army of Kali monsters.

because if you look down on a mage, you're going to have a bad day. they can pull out more bullshit than any other class.

I mean, in moon universe, to this very day. Mages have always been the top of the world.

If not for bulshit like magic resistance, all those servants are getting their shit kicked it

>This is a lie. Nasu has never compared Arcuied to Herc in those specifications and there are many times when he never specifies which power level of Arc he's talking about.
It's not a lie, it's a direct comparison based on her Berserker stats in Extra. Inb4 non-canon, that's besides the point, it's the stats she was allocated for an approximately realistic scenario for if she was summoned as a servant in the wrong class.
>Hinako was a monster you couldn't beat until the plot decided you could
She was literally human tier until she went full Demon Lord, that's fucking pathetic for a race that was ostensibly designed to cull Humanity in the Tsukihime worldline, such that Ciel believed that humanity didn't possess a weapon capable of killing them.

Btw speaking of Hinako, she is not a True Ancestor but yes she's really really really strong and Koyanskaya had to help us all the time (something something taoism iirc). Magi just put her into TA category since she's close to them. She also doesn't have vampiric impulses too.
>The incarnation of an Elemental, a vampiric creature that makes a living by draining energy. Different from both Magical and Phantasmal Beasts, she was born in the inner sea of the earth in order serve as a surface terminal of maintenance. While closely related to those labelled as “True Ancestors” in the magus world what with how similar their developmental processes are, their very existence is that of a different kind of bloodsucker. Not even she’s aware of her true origins, though, due to the fact that the fae and zhenren mentioned in Ancient Chinese legend didn’t become self-aware of their own existence until far off into the future.

my wife

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>It's not a lie, it's a direct comparison based on her Berserker stats in Extra. Inb4 non-canon, that's besides the point, it's the stats she was allocated for an approximately realistic scenario for if she was summoned as a servant in the wrong class.
Stats aren't reliable, but even then, this is a mistake. Heracles's stats are higher for one, but they don't even reflect his power. Heracles' mad enhancement is almost never used at base. Illya suppresses it until she goes full CS on her body and unleashes it in the forest. GO states he doesn't use ME at all otherwise you'd collapse. There's an entire interlude explaining it. Berserker Arcueid without backup is really nothing special and weaker than say, Gawain
>She was literally human tier until she went full Demon Lord, that's fucking pathetic for a race that was ostensibly designed to cull Humanity in the Tsukihime worldline, such that Ciel believed that humanity didn't possess a weapon capable of killing them.
Wow. Play Tsukihime. All TAs are weak because they are born with an existential defect thanks to suppressing their bloodlust. DAAs and the church hunt and exterminate them. Hinako was able to bypass that defect thanks to Gao and fight at 100%.

>She was literally human tier until she went full Demon Lord, that's fucking pathetic for a race that was ostensibly designed to cull Humanity in the Tsukihime worldline, such that Ciel believed that humanity didn't possess a weapon capable of killing them.
Hinako has lived for millennia and never fed. She's psychologically crippled, which is important for a TAs structure.

I think you guys are misunderstanding something. Wild Gates of Babylon is limitless, does not mean that gill can fire them all at the same time. He has a limited rate of fire.

I don't remember the specific number, but there is a certain limit to the amount of gates he can open

Berserker Arc has worse ME than Herc and it doesn't matter because ME just adds one level to parameters, in a vacuum they're the same.
>DAAs and the church hunt and exterminate them
Wrong, the DAA hunted them, the Church literally don't have a weapon to kill them, Ciel even mentions this. You fucking play Tsukihime, they are "weak" from a relative perspective of their full potential, but even without it their powers are devastating.

My friend, Gill has always been beneath the Gods.
True Gods rack his shit.

even his so-called equal was just a toy that they made. Everything in Gates of Babylon is what they gave him. Gil was nothing without the Gods

he opens thousands of gates in strange fake, so if there is a limit, it's something that practically no heroic spirit can withstand

Wrong: Hinako is like a TA but not a TA as per her profile. In Valentines she explains she fed in blood when she needed mana urgently, but she also says she never had any sort of bloodlust, meaning when she sucked Gao’s blood, she an actual powerboost rather than stopping holding back because she never needed to hold back to begin with

>Gil was the strongest 15 years ago
>Gil is the strongest 15 years later
Feels good to be a Gilfag

yet he screwed the gods hard lmao
> Everything in Gates of Babylon is what they gave him
some divine weapons are, but the majority are either things humans produced which he collected during his lifetime, or things added retroactively after becoming a HS

This is my Fate OTP. Say something nice about it.

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based and canonpilled

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canon

Gay/Clay

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Shiki > SHIKI > Shiki > Shiki > SHIKI

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Leave sigurd to me.

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Maybe you should read Tsukihime.
You are wrong about almost everything involving TAs, DAs and the Church.
Read the Character Materials too while you're at it.

canon

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You do know they fought several times after their first time right?

such as?

Not that user but you are wrong. ME are not all the same. Where did you get this meme? The strength of ME depends on the power of enhancement. And if you get it at EX, you might not get an actual powerboost at all. Herc's ME is actually very significant and he does NOT have it in his base profile. Play his interlude.

>even his so-called equal was just a toy that they made.
...
Enkidu is stronger than his gods, you know that right? He's quite literally all of their power put in mud form. Of course, he lost a lot of that power, but he's still able to fight Ishtar like cat and dogs in myth. Ishtar is Babylonia's strongest goddess.

>implying Gil didn't get chomped by Sakura
THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF GILKEKS

Even if that were the case, it doesn't matter, because servant parameters don't account for skills, ME is applied after consideration for the base stats. 30% Arc's stats (while nerfed) are approximately equivalent to Herc's, that's all there is to it, it's not anywhere near as complicated as people insist on making it for some reason.

any servant would get chomped by sakura, yet gil couldn't be BLACKED

>True Gods rack his shit.
You do realize all the babylonian gods use all of their power to create enkidu right? Enkidu himself is therefore equal if not superior to them. So Gil should also be on the same level too.

>ME is applied after consideration for the base stats
No they are not. Play the VN. Herc's parameters are available to Shirou's eyes (in case you've forgotten, masters can detect stats in-story by looking at servants). Sometimes they see it as game stats. Tine sees a servant's power in more general terms like the size of a river. Herc's ME was still locked at that point, and neither Shirou nor Saber realized this. Even Roman, who should have Herc's data, was surprised as how much stronger Herc's ME made him compared to what was on the surface. Arc's are not comparable at all.

Not him but good job showing how much of a secondary you are.

>serious Gil
The ONLY time Gil ever gets serious is when he's fighting Beasts like Tiamat. Otherwise his default mode is arrogant prick.

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It's stated in f/go they often fought because it was enjoyable for them and they never hold back against each other so its safe to assume all the other times they fought were also at full power.

Fucking tertiary retard thinks the past will be modified and changed just so a guy can get nerfed thousands of years in the future.
What a stupid fucking question you just typed.
Fuck off.

True, but the OP states that should be disregarded

that doesn't change anything about the argument that gil might be stronger as a heroic spirit though

Yeah i misread what you were saying.

Gilgamesh was stronger alive, in raw power. SF confirms this. Gilgamesh as a heroic spirit just has more toys but stuff in his AoG era was already pretty damn good.

>ME is applied after consideration for the base stats.
You're missing the point. Herc's ME is sealed, unlike other Berserkers, so it's not actually being allocated to those stats yet.

You're literally saying what I just said. Arc's and Herc's stats are listed BEFORE ME is taken into consideration, which is WHY it's even possible for them to be surprised by the increase in power. We literally never see what happens when Arc applies her ME because it's a really garbage version due to her fucked up summoning.
Like I said, for the umpteenth time, BEFORE ME is applied, they have comparable base stats. When you apply them (or indeed apply Gaia's backup) then it becomes vague because we don't have an actual value for what they go to at that point.

Why is there such a fucking huge amount of people in this thread spouting misinformation? Do you people actually not watch f/sn anime or read the vns? If you realluly are a grand order playing tertiary why do you still act so fucking smug and confident? Because you read a couple wiki articles?

I'll fucking spoonfeed you then: Sakura/Shadow was going to die like a bitch to Gil, the only reason she didn't is because Gil did what he usually does and didn't do things properly.

Did he lose? Yes, but the question is if he's the strongest, not if he can lose. Gil is immensely stronger than Sakura/Shadow.

He had ridiculous mana and probably better "stats" (as far as they apply to a living person) but the GoB conceptual ability is insane

>watch anime
secondaries don't count
also FGOchads are the new primaries

>Gil isn't the strongest !
>But Nasu and the VN said he was?
>Uuuuuh, that was before! OH, look, Alcides!
>But he had a hard time winning even with the intervention and aid of multiple OP outsiders and said himself he couldn't match him under normal circumstances?
>It wasn't the real Heracles!
>But the real one would have an even harder time?
>G-Grand servants!!!
>But Grands are specifically summoned to be stronger than normal Heroic Spirits, and Gil actually qualifies as one in a class than isn't even his usual one?
>REEEEEEE
Ins't it getting a bit pathetic?

Alive Gil probably had stats around Saber under Rin or a bit lower.

Plus he’s super popular now so we get more Gil content. Based Gilbros

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Being called the strongest really doesn't mean much in amything except dragonball. In fate there are a fuckload of situations for anyone to come out on top and every piece of fate media goes out of it's way to show you how a person with raw physical power can still get fucked up nine different times.
This argument has always been pointless.

>>Uuuuuh, that was before! OH, look, Alcides!
>>But he had a hard time winning even with the intervention and aid of multiple OP outsiders and said himself he couldn't match him under normal circumstances?
What happened with this anyway? Did they both get Hydra aids and back off ending the fight in a "draw"?

>and Gil actually qualifies as one in a class
No he doesn't. He has one of the qualifications but is not actually grand caster. Merlin says he and Solomon are the greatest casters that shit on all the others.

Gil got Hydra poison and just toughed it off with his stiff upper lip (but was graveky hurt) while Alcides got Hydra poisoned and started to die in pain. Then Ishtar closed off GoB. Gil just bantered her a bit. Then Humbaba showed up too and wrecked Gilgamesh.

>Arc's and Herc's stats are listed BEFORE ME is taken into consideration
No, you dumbass. ME is naturally applied in base stats. Just as Achilles gets his goddess buff into his stats automatically (we know this, otherwise he'd have A rank STR and be able to penetrate AoF). Herc does not get this because his shit is not active. He is the only Berserker shown with this designation. Good lord.

>He has one of the qualifications but is not actually grand caster.
Yep, definiton of "qualify", good job user

Did they really just kill off the two most interesting servants in one go?

Read again. You said he qualifies as one. He does not qualify.

It's like saying you need to have a GPA and a requisite credit to get into a program. Merlin and Solomon have both. We know Gilgamesh has one, we don't if he has it all. So there's no proof he qualifies as grand caster and he is not called a GC or GC """candidate""" in any capacity.

Gilgamesh survived, but is in life support being helped by Enkindu.
Alcides still has a ressurection in his King's Order (Chiron's immortality).
Narita actually killing characters would be a miracle

>Gil is fighting Alcides
>He's using crazy weapons we've never seen and aiming at the gaps in the Nemean Lion's Pelt which makes it useless
>Suddenly his gates close, Ishtar got the key he tossed away earlier and closed them (for now?)
>he's still ready to fight with the weapons he's got in hand
>suddenly he hears a roar
>it's Humbaba, the creature he killed with Enkidu who shouldn't be a heroic spirit by any measure
>he's momentarily shook by Humbaba's appearance and this allows Alcides to hit him with a hydra poison arrow
>at some point during this Alcides gets hit by John Wingard's hydra poison dagger himself
>Alcides goes insane from the pain but is saved by the grail mud inside him (for now?)
>Gilgamesh somehow ignores the pain (his strength against mental interference?) and remains standing as the hydra poison eats away his saint graph until he loses consciousness
>volume ends with Tine almost killing herself trying to keep Gil alive when his saint graph is apparently completely gone at this point
>Gil is still alive due to Enkidu drawing power from the land's leylines and healing him but it doesn't seem sustainable

He's not dead yet but he's as close a servant can get to being dead as it gets. Alcides gets bailed out by grail mud like always.

>Gil starts recking Alcides by actually aiming for once in his live
>Both get poisoned
>Gil takes it but it does damage him
>Alcides nearly goes mad, but the Grail helps him overcome hit
>Ishtar shows up, closes GoB
>Alcides shots Nine Lives, Gil is fine handling it with what remains of his weapons
>Divine Beast Bull of Heavn-tier shows up and demolish Gil

And again, it doesn't matter, because Arc's ME doesn't fucking work properly because of her misummoning.

Alcides and his rage boner for gods

IS the the gil vs herc part translated? I tried looking but couldn't find it.

everyone is EOP and trusting the BL comments around the volume's release. we won't know until othersideofsky translates it.

no

Yes he does? He is an exceptional Caster with the highest rank of Clairvoyance and his original purpose when he was created was to guide, and by proxy, defend humanity. How does he not qualify? Not because wouldn't be picked over Merlin or Solomon that isn't a suitable candidate. Medea wouldn't qualify for exemple.

BEYOND SOLOMON LEVEL

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A sword autist
King Arthur
A very hungry wormslut
A green haired jailbait reverse trap

Arc's is fully functional. It increases stats along with impairing cognitive function. Gatou has only made Arc more insane and the skill more severe.
>Raises all basic stats at the cost of impairing high-level cognitive thought...the effects of which have been made more severe due to the incompetency of the Master.
The level of a servant's ME isn't tied to the actual Rank. As mentioned Rank EX ME is actually the worst of the lot.

>Yes he does?
No he doesn't. He's a shit caster who relies on his tools instead of the knowledge of being a caster. At no point is he ever called a grand caster. He only has the eyes of one. If you think he's a grand caster, bring the text, because I assure you it doesn't exist.

>He's a shit caster
Stopped reading here.

he relies on mystic codes made by others to cast "spells". he became a caster as a fuck you to solomon

Saber with Avalaon and a "grail"-type master with infinite mana (assumes that that master doesn't get attacked).

Nope
If he's bloodlusted (as hard as that could be to achieve) he would just pull Ea out and erase anyone who defies him
plus he has transcendental precognition and every loss he ever had is complete bullshit
My time to ask, is sunbathed Gawain the strongest saber of all?

>Relying on Extra's fucking atrocious translation
It's actually:
>……のだが、マスターの勘違いでうまくいっていないようだ。
>...however, due to the master's misunderstanding, it doesn't seem to have turned out properly
It's straight up botched. There's no indication that it works but with severity to the negative effects, that shit's entirely made up.

When is Jesus servant coming? I can't wait anymore damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

>is sunbathed Gawain the strongest saber of all?
In raw stats and ignoring void shiki, yes. lancelot can fight him until night falls again though.

And? He relies on sword to do archery, are you gonna say he is a shit Archer? Don't mix being a Magi and a Caster, user.

the story would end the moment he is summoned, just pointless

>Jobwain
>Strongest
UMU

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Still wonder why this is still a debate since CCC where he was singled as THE servant to needs to be locked away so he wouldn't shit all over the war. Remember Buddha was fine by these standards.

Buddha self-summoned himself to Twice that had already won the HGW with Tamamo. We have no idea if he is summonable before entering the war since the system locked Gil away to avoid someone one-sidedly winning

>literally a monster heel made so that the babyface can go over.
why do people like him?

If he started off with Ea, wouldn't Arthuria Saber be able to kill Gil the same way she did in the Fate ending?

No because he was spamming Ea through that fight. She needed him to release it with even more power.

>Cool powers
>Handsome
>Wears golden armor
>Obscene powerlevel
>Fun personality
>His best friend is a lump of clay
What's not to like?

Actually, Avalon is one of the few no-bullshit thing that could genuinely fuck him up (discarding pregoc). His loss in Fate route was totally cool. He manhandled saber in a swordfight, repeled Excalibur like its nothing and lost against a conceptual weapon that belonged to her and that had a good twist (being in Shiou's body from that start).
UBW was retarded tho, and HF shat over everyone that isn't Rider, Sakura or Shirou anyway.

Not that user, but Gilgamesh is just not traditional caster class servant. It's not that he's weak as servant when he's caster class, but he's bad as traditional spellcaster (if we take away his treasury, he can't use any spells). Yes, he has clairvoyance on level enough to be grand caster, but he lacks in some other departments to be qualified for the position.

I actually appreciated Fate route's ending a lot, many incels have called me an NPC for saying that it is my favorite route

only thing I really dislike about it are the disturbing bad ends you can get and how stupid Shirou is for taking in the bitch who was trying to fuck him at all costs (Illya)

>gets beaten by a fucking 17 yo ginger

dont bother. gilkeks live in a permanent state of denial that their precious jobber isn't the absolute best at everything. they're worse than dbzfags.

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Avalon is only useful as a surprise attack. Serious gil wouldn't need to use Ea vs saber since he'd use bombard her with NP's from Vimana.

I don't get it, it's like saying Merlin would be useless if we took away his prana. Like, yeah no shit.
>it's easier to seal GoB
No? Literally happened one time, donne by a goddess that had the specific key to did that Gilgamesh willingly discarded.
I'm not trying to be of bad faith, I'm just no seeing a compellling argument as to why using MC makes him a bad Caster when he achieves the same feats as magus Casters.

funny how every of his losses so far have had the grail fucking up in some way.

Because when you look at grand casters we had, they can use spells by themselves, not through fancy tools. It's not purely about feats and firepower when it comes to being qualified for grand position.

but I'm a gilchad, I just think him being a grand caster candidate is stupid and not supported by the facts

>Because when you look at grand casters we had, they can use spells by themselves, not through fancy tools
But again, so what?
>It's not purely about feats and firepower when it comes to being qualified for grand position.
Are you implying that being able to cast spell by yourself is a prerequiste of the position? How do you know that? Again, you seem to mx Magi/Caster.

If gil's so strong how come he didn't stop goetia on his own?

>no hitler servant
why even live?

>Solomon created magecraft and has affinity for all magecraft
>Merlin's flowers were powerful enough to completely neutralize the primary skill of a Beast and the mother of life on Earth
>Casgil did...something, probably.
Totes grand caster-tier.

Yeah, because everyone can't take a beast on hiw is obviously a shitter. Grand Assassin was obviously the weakest Servant ever created.

I hope you're not the same guy because if you're onyl answer was too >greentext it's pretty pathetic.

>Casgil did...something, probably.
>Summon 7 Servants and power them by himself
>Armed everyone in Uruk to the teeth with his NP's

You weren't supposed to post that!