What is your opinion on this subject?

see
I could agree withHikigaya to his fullest on how he deals the issues the they give to him,but i clearly need to gain the tools for that,which i do own.

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2d is 3d to people in it. You don't see them acting as if they only perceive 2 spatial dimensions, do you?

"Literally me" archetype is far more entertaining than a generic passive beta MC.

Imagine how much better Hyouka would have been without Oreki

These guys bother me because while I'm supposed to self-insert(?), they are younger and better looking then me.
Even when I had long hair, I never looked as handsome as any of these lads.
Now if there was a buzzcut, gloomy eyes, skinnyfat MC who gets all the girls, that would be something.

I'm not really the target audience for the anime/manga/LNs that use this trope most of the time, but the only instances when it really bothers me is when it feels as if the author is trying to redo high his high school life by glorifying the hikki/videogame nerd/friendless loser into the snarky, smartest guy in the room. You can almost hear the mouthbreather behind the words on the page.

I say this knowing that a number of the people who write stories with such MCs are themselves still in high school.

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Oh don't get me started on lower dimensional relativity you 3D pancake.

*worse

this, prude MCs who's sole purpose is to slap thots is prime entertainment.

You wouldn't get hit by a car on your first day in school, meet with the daughter of the one of the richest families in Japan whom makes a club for said character, make yourself look like an idiot to help people and then get mixed up with the politics and problems of said daughter. Hikigaya is not you. Stop throwing 3DPD shit into everything you meme spouting Yea Forumstard.

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Oreki is just lazy.
8man is the best written version of that trope presented in that image.
Ayankouji, I have no idea. Never finished his show.
Azusagawa is the worst. Feels like way too much of the author's wish fulfillment was poured into that character.

Honestly Ayanokouji doesn't feel much like a literal me.
Oh, sure he has the same mentality but his case seems more supernatural that he is that kind of self insertion.
Also the rather bizarre setting takes much focus than the actual "nihilistic" a tics of the mc.

honestly this, I swear that if Haruhi aired today this board would be dismissing Kyon as a "literally me" mc

I am literally 8man tho.
It's not a good thing irl.

you are not, and will never be 8man.

You're right.
8man is a lot cooler than me.

Kyon was way better than any of the faggot MCs in later LNs

8man isn't exactly a high bar. He gets to act cool because the plot puts him into contruves situations, not because he is somehow cooler than the typical cynical shut in loser.

I'm confused, self-inserts kinda lose their point when they are defined characters.
The whole point of having protagonists with copy pasted personalities and literally no background was to make that process easier.
But now they all started having more defined personalities, a clear life history with family and old friends.
How exactly are you projecting in any of these people ? I think people use them more as whatifsm rather than actually projecting.

Unlike the typical shut-in loser,Hachiman has a plan for the future,although weird,a plan nonetheless.

But she said only four things. There’s five on the bottom.

>unlike the typical shut in loser
Projecting much? Not everybody on Yea Forums is exactly like you.

there's 2 titanium

How am i projecting?
i was stating what was observed,if you didn't pay attention then the only one you can blame is yourself.

>How am i projecting?
>Unlike the typical shut-in loser,Hachiman has a plan for the future
Not everybody on Yea Forums was exactly like you in high school, retard.

the term "self-insert" is just used as either shitposting bait or "character I don't like" and shouldn't be taking seriously 90% of the time

How does Yea Forums do it? Even with all it's flaws it still manages to maintain a level of quality far above the other media boards.

literally me, but unironically.

>not everyone is exactly like you
congratulation on your discovery,took you thirty years,but better late than never.
Once again,Hikigaya has a plan,unlike most of Yea Forums during their teen years,i still don't see my projection,if you wanna claim that,then you're free to do it as much as you desire to do so,but that doesn't make it true either,it doesn't classify as a subjectivity.

More like he gets to act miserable because the plot tells Hachiman that his methods and way of acting like a cool outcast is wrong. Every time he tries to find a fix for it, he fucks things up worse than the last time.

The problem here is that people act like Hikigaya is some sort of wish fulfillment because he said some shit about Sagami or what some faggot on the internet said. So everyone takes his character out of context for their own purpose.

You don't have to match someone perfectly to self-insert. If someone is similar enough that their interactions with the world are a lot like yours would be in their situation, it's possibly to self insert. For example, if you think a lot like hachiman, seeing him go through various situations is a lot like imagining yourself being there.

The idea that self insert MCs are inherently bland and passive is retarded in itself. Almost nobody is entirely reactive and completely nondescript like the typical isekai MC, so it actually makes identifying with their actions difficult. The reason you associate intentional self insert with blandness is that these characters are made to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Building them up doesn't preclude selfinsert, it just differentiates the character too much from certain slices of the demographic.

Think about it this way, by giving hachiman a character you reduce the number of people who can self insert as him but you increase the degree to which those who are similar to him can identify with him.

>this_is_literally_meme
>Facebook memes
the state of Yea Forums

this is actually me, i'm not kidding

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>unlike most of Yea Forums during their teen years
>I don't see my projection
given that you type like a schizo autist I guess it's not surprising.

Anyway, I rest my case.

since 2013-2016 Yea Forums has been in a perpetual state of permanent summer faggotry. Almost everyone in these threads is a tourist.

This is literally me...

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If you wanna pick me for that word then do as you wish,not gonna waste more time in your hypothesis for a such a useless word.

Summerfaggoty had been totally fake for years before newfags trying to fit in stopped crying about it. Almost as bad as it was with Gaia

This, identifying with a 2D character is retarded to begin with

Hey, guys, can I join?

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You are projecting your own experience onto everyone around you without a shred of thought.

No, fuck off.

youtube.com/watch?v=vhTFkUpB8zc

>brooding bitter cynical main character
>still ends up with any friends and a harem of cute girls slobbering over his dick
At least it's believable for anyone to like beta MCs.

What about 4d?

Pre 2016 threads were still different and I enjoyed them a lot more

Litteralest of I

Shinji Ikari types make even less sense having girls like them than "brooding and cynical" types. Girls liking bad boys has always been a cliche you know.

But I am Intelligent, Nihilistic and with a Wicked Sense of Humor

Shitty meme template thread, to bait newfags and kiddies into having a stupid fucking argument about whether or not we should like anime. Lurk for 2 years before posting, or I would say that if the board culture still existed for you to see. That's my opinion.

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>they actually do stuff with their intelligence
This is very untrue though.

The vast majority of the "literally me" type protagonists are as unmotivated and passive as the audience. All of their action is directly caused by the plot which puts them in situations where they get to shine. e.g. your typical loser type protagonist does not actively go out and look for a girlfriend but the plot hands him a girlfriend, either by making the girl pursue him or putting him in a situation where he is forced to hang out with her, etc. This is actually part of the "literally me" type fantasy. A protagonist who is motivated and has an agenda of his own would be unrelatable to the audience. The audience is not urged to change or "better" itself in any form, but rather that they can stay who they are and just wait for the moment where destiny will bless them, just like the protagonists who are "literally them".

board culture is having the same argument over and over again

except that's not true for 8man, like at all.

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you make it seem like the harem of girls didn't fall into his lap

But it is. Hachiman is forced by his teacher to join a club where he gets to hang out with girls and solve the problems of other people. He did not go out and found the club on his own. He did not go out and meet the girls he gets to hang out with on his own. He did not actively seek to become a problem solver. No, the plot provided him with the opportunity to shine. Anyone watching the show can see himself in Hachiman. All it would have taken for the average Yea Forumsnon to become Hachiman would have been for their sensei to force them into such a club and then everything else would fall in place.

Such as? Their witty nihilistic monologues are no different than shitposts on Yea Forums.

GENIUNE

Araragi and Kyon are better than all four

>ah yes, me getting shit on was all part of my plans, an epic sacrifice for the greater good
He's literally me. I was actually the hero of my school, but nobody knew. Such is the life of dark knights like me.

and the narrative tells us that Hachiman can lose all of that some day.

>join a club where he gets to hang out with girls and solve the problems of other people
and Hachiman loses this said club and his relationship with Yukino ends.

>He did not go out and found the club on his own. He did not go out and meet the girls he gets to hang out with on his own.
The club exists to change Hachiman because he was isolated.

>No, the plot provided him with the opportunity to shine.
all of which have negative consequences, there is no shining here.

>if, when and buts Yea Forumsnon is hachiman
That's because you can't separate 3d from 2d, that's not our fault.

No you aren't, fuck off retard. Hachiman isn't a hero because he hasn't helped anyone.

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>self-inserting this hard yet telling people to not mix 2d and 3d
Wew
>b-but these things that fall into his lap have negative consequences!
Becauss once again he's a passive sperg that can't make a single decision for himself. See a pattern here? He does nothing by himself. He just lets things magically come up to him.

>The club exists to change Hachiman because he was isolated.
Which is my entire point. The plot provides the opportunity rather than the protagonist. Hachiman did not actively seek the club. He did not actively attempt to break out of his isolation but the plot forced him into it.

>all of which have negative consequences, there is no shining here.
He gets to hang out with cute girls and he gets to be the hero in the story, live an exciting life. I can guarantee you that any Yea Forumsnon in high school would have eagerly switched places with him.

>he hasn't helped anyone
>fixed the Tsurumi problem
>fixed the festival problems
>fixed the tobe clique problem
>etc.
Just because he denies being a cringy self-sacrificing hero, it doesn't mean the narrative doesn't frame him as one.

I wonder how did Ayanokouji end up there.

Not true when it comes to Sakuta. He goes out of his way to win Mai over and ultimately save her from disappearing. Not because he's a good person and always willing to help other people out, but because he thought she was beautiful and sexy.

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he made some of those worse though, dumb incel

Sakuta is a bit more pro-active but arguably even when it comes to him there are also certain constraints: e.g. Mai runs into him first rather than him seeking her out of the blue, he is the only guy in the world who can see her and thus her only option (i.e. no male competition), and when it comes to the other girls too there is just nobody else around who is familiar with these sorts of issues which predestines him to be their saviour. He too is chosen by the plot. Him not being a good person is obviously a cheeky lie because he doesn't just save Mai but he saves all the other girls too.

I guess Shinji sucks too since he gets chosen to pilot the Eva Unit 01 JUST because he's the MC, fucking fantastic logic Albert Einstein.

>fixed the Tsurumi problem
By forcing her to be a loner and the problem once again shows up during the Christmas event
>fixed the festival problem
causing himself to get bullied during the Sports Festival and broke Sagami's confidence in which Yukino herself had to fix BOTH by herself.

>fixed the tobe clique problem
So we're going to call avoiding the problem "fixing" the problem? Tobe wanted to express his feelings to Ebina because Hayama only cared about his stupid temporary fake circle of friends. He gave up on his ideal of superficial relationships are meaningless and have no right to exist, the one shared belief with Hikigaya Hachiman and Yukinoshita Yukino.
>etc
He hasn't solved anything, he literally says it himself.

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>incel
reddit called, they're already missing you.

He's fake as fuck and the social chessmaster shit falls apart when shit starts coming at him specifically.
How can you respect this guy after the muh genuine shit

>I guess Shinji sucks too
Are you new to anime? When has Shinji sucking EVER been a controversial opinion? That being said however, I'm not even saying that Shinji or any of these "literally me" type protagonists are bad. My point was that they're generally not pro-active but passive and that it's the plot which provides the opportunity for them, which is also what makes them relatable. If they weren't passive like the audience they wouldn't be "literally me".

looks like I hit the nail on the head

Saying it on Yea Forums is controversial enough to get Evafags bent out of shape, and you know how they are.

While it does applies to Hachiman and Oreki it does not applies to Sakuta or Ayanokouji the later has an agenda from beginning and it's more like some sort villainous character pretending to be unmotivated plain mc.

Wow, 8man Is LITERALLY Me~

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She was better than Mai.

See regarding what I wrote about Sakuta.

About Ayanokouji I essentially agree but I would still elaborate here: usually, these sorts of shows are rather down-to-earth in their ultimate goal they set for the MC to achieve, which is usually finding a girlfriend, making friends, i.e. ultimately becoming a riajuu/normalfag. However, the audience could not relate to someone "actively" doing that so the plot has to step in and provide opportunities so that the MC can stay a passive/loser in mentality and habitus but still achieve those goals. When it comes to Ayanokouji his goals are completely separate from the normalfag life. He does not yearn for any of that - he has no such "mundane" motivation, which is probably why he is still relatable to the audience in some way. His motivation does not go into "improving himself", meeting girls for romantic purposes, making friends, etc. - which these shows are normally about, but they are completely separate from that sphere.