I hate the word "fate"

I hate the word unlikable. Likability is a subjective concept. When you call someone "unlikable", what happens if someone likes them? Guess they're not so unlikable now, huh?

I don't remember very well the premise of Mawaru Pingudoramu. Isn't it about young and innocent Himari-chan being (unfairly) punished because of the sins of her adoptive parents?

Ikuhara admited that Penguindrum's second half was improvised after the staff discarded the plans for the second half. The problem with not having extra-care with discussing this kind of fishy issues is that it's very easy to repeat the same old patterns despite the author's intentions. The concept of children having to pay for their parents's sins is so ingrainated in Japanese culture that even people that disagree with that shit can replicate it on a subconcious level. For a closer example, see American puritanism and how both sides of the political spectrum can't move on from moral panic and us vs them. The second half needed more planning than the first half because it's a heavy subject in Japan.

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Basically yes. Also that Shouma deserved the same punishment that Kanba despite Shouma was a decent person while Kanba was terrorist scum (fangirls and edgy teens will tell you he did nothing wrong though)

Sarazanmai is Penguindrum done right

>Penguindrum: My family is shit so I have to surrender and accept fate
>Sarazanmai: My family is shit, life is hard and all that shit but I'll continue to go on

You guys literally just ignored what Penguindrum was about right down to second word in its title.
>>Penguindrum: My family is shit so I have to surrender and accept fate
This is literally the position Satan takes in the anime and protip: if you watch the anime it's about him being wrong.

I fate the word "hate".

I still don't remember very well (I will maybe rewatch the show one day) but wasn't fate actually rewritten by Ringo at the end of Pingudoramu? I have some difficulties to interpret that as "surrender[ing] and accepting fate".

Shouma said to Ringo this was their punishment. Also the curse was for Shouma's parents being terrorist scum. Something, something, karma

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From the beginning, we hated "fate". And, from the beginning, we loved "fate". That's why we wanted to become true friends of "fate".

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based atheist zoomer

Maybe fate were the friends we made along the way.

>literally SZM

If I see another historical figure gender swapped into an anime girl, I don't know what I'll do.

>ignoring the bhuddism
Shouma and Kanba both escaped the wheel friend, that's not something the guilty do.

Except Kanba had to escape the wheel because he was terrorist scum that killed innocent policemen and was willing to kill many more (I think he never repented of his murders but that's another topic) while Shouma literally did nothing wrong. His "redemption" should be about realizing all this punishment bullshit was only on his head, except it was real

>Fate
>Talent
>Gifted
>Destined
>Chosen

The point I was trying to make in 191305652 is that, IIRC, they actually did NOT accept the punishment, fought it during the whole anime and succeeded (for some definition of "success") to overrule it at the end. I'm not disputing the fact that the children were punished for the sins of their parents. I have problems only with the "have to surrender and accept fate" part of your characterisation of Pingudoramu.

I love the word UNMEI

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>Kanba was terrorist scum
he did nothing wrong except loving his non-blood-related imouto. :(

In English, "unmei" means destiny!

Kanba having to walk the gauntlet of broken glass and Shouma not having to do anything of the sort was not incidental.

>destiny

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Buy 40L of gasoline?

>teddy bears in transformation scene look like Evas
>train cars of personal hell
>room with a big fan is the land of the dead
>penguin mascots
Is Ikuhara capable of not sucking Anno's dick for even 5 seconds?

Eh, it's a bit murky. SOMEONE was going to get gibbed by the scorpion fire and while they spent the majority of the show trying to figure out how to get rid of it entirely, the ending was essentially the two of them deciding that they would be the ones to take the loss because they cared about Ringo and Himari. They didn't overrule it, they determined how it would be divided. In so doing, they obtained true light and possibly created a new fate, unless they had been fated for the reward of love from the start.

His redemption was realizing that someone was going to end up being punished and choosing to take it on himself. In theory, the only requirement is that someone gets hit with the negativity created from sin and there is a lot of wiggle room for how it gets decided with "automatic" ways such as passing it to a child of the sinner and active means of passing around the responsibility. The boys were rewarded for making the decision to tank the hit out of love for others. It's not really a story about what's fair, as even if you want to make claims about cosmic fairness, there will always be unfair opinions from those impacted by tragedies about who is responsible.
The whole thing with the children of the boxes and child broiler should have made it clear that Penguindrum does not portray fate as fundamentally fair.

In Penguindrum it's more about how your family, culture, and economy can control your life.

The show very explicitly frames the children being blamed as wrong. It's only due to the failings of the world and people around them that they are punished, and I don't think the show views it as a good thing. The only good that comes from it is that it eventually deepens the bonds between some of the characters but it still destroys those bonds.

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>The whole thing with the children of the boxes and child broiler should have made it clear that Penguindrum does not portray fate as fundamentally fair.
And that mean the children of murderous parents shouldn't even try to be good persons because they're going to get fucked at the end anyway. See I don't think Ikuhara wanted to give such a comformistic view but they had little time and an idea is truly ingranaited when people don't notice it. Ikuhara wanted his tragic twist and until certain point it worked, at least with the Shouma/Ringo shippers in Japan, but his tragic twist ended reinforcing the traditionalist view on the children of sinners.

>The show very explicitly frames the children being blamed as wrong.
And Kathleen Kennedy and her goons wanted a progressive Star Wars but they ended making a Fabio-on-the-cover novel but in space and Boyega plays a minstrel character. People fucked up despite the intentions.

>They didn't overrule it, they determined how it would be divided.
Okay. Objection granted. "Sore ga sexy. Shabadadou."
But I persist to think that Pingudoramu is more about fighting destiny, especially when it's unfair and even if you don't (and can't) get a full overruling at the end, than "accept[ing] fate".

>And that mean the children of murderous parents shouldn't even try to be good persons because they're going to get fucked at the end anyway.
The boys were rewarded for being good people. They could have pawned the scorpion fire off on others, but taking the punishment themselves out of love led to their reemergence within fate (becoming the boys that ran by at the start).

I think it is very much about accepting fate in the sense that it required them to acknowledge that unfair things exist. Sharing the fruit, trying to cure Himari; from the very start they were constantly trying to make things fair, but they only met with success when they accepted the unfairness of their situation and chose to meet it head on.
That's also the point of the fate-changing invocation transplanting wounds. Unfairness can't be eliminated, but it can be distributed. Taking on unfair fate out of love leads to rewards.

The message is still that punishing children for the crimes of the parents is wrong, but also that it is inevitably going to happen anyway and so you can either choose to continue the cycle by trying to destroy society or strive to stoically accept the unfairness of reality and act compassionately anyway.

Anybody remember the final ep livestream thread?

>They could have pawned the scorpion fire off on others
Is that true? I was under the impression that punishments have to be the most unfair and, thus, cannot be arbitrarily transferred for mere convenience (or malevolence) of the punished ones (and their friends).

I don't.