Who would win?

Stands aren't magic though, they're stands. The rules of stands are that only stand users can see stands (unless it's a stand that is visible to normalfags)
Star Platinum can't be seen by anyone that isn't a stand user, so unless Archer can trace the Arrow and give himself a stand then Star Platinum wins

>My punch ghost born from my soul totally isn't magic

It’s psychic energy, not magic.

Archer can spam Caladborg or Hrunting at long range and win. Jotaro will win at short range due to Star Platinum being faster + time stop.

I told you the rules of stands nigger
Servants can be seen by anyone if they're not in spirit form, Stands can't be seen by anyone except stand users (barring the couple of specific stands which break this rule)

Well, at short range Archer can go incorporeal and Jotaro can't do shit.

Neither can Archer.

Okay but can Gilgamesh or any servant with a top tier master defeat Giogio & GER

Fall under "magic" in Nasuland. It's a "mystery," just like magecraft.

Can’t Star Platinum go incorporeal too and hit him?

Suck out his soul.

It's not something that can be accomplished by just hanging around in spirit form. Why would Assassins need to even attack masters if that was the case? Just hang out in spirit form and such away their soul.

Because servants are vulnerable to servants in spirit form.
Luckily, Stands aren't Servants.
Jotaro dies.
Stand invisibility wank used against stands.
Lmao.

Nope.
Spirit form gg.

>Because servants are vulnerable to servants in spirit form.
But Assassin has Presence Concealment, and it doesn't go away unless he's beginning an attack.

Can't use your container's skills in spirit form, I would assume.
Otherwise spirit form Medusa would be a meme.

>it's another episode of a Fatefag trying to insert his meme series into powerlevel arguments despite having one of the most weak, pathetic universes powerlevel wise out there
It's all so tiresome.

Why is Nasuland the authority here?

The salt emanating off of you is simply delicious.
SPIRIT FORM GG.

Star Platinum is faster than light while servants move at most two digit mach speed, it's not even close.

Well fine, Jotaro and Star Platinum have no mystery and are utterly incapable of harming a Servant.
GG.

Muh Jotraro muh FTL pasta, you Jojofags are so broken its unreal.

I’d argue Jojo is just as big if not bigger a meme series.

>FTL
>can't deflect like 30 knives
Nice wank

Has nothing to do with authority. Stands as a concept as nothing special in nasuland.

And I'd agree, to the point where it's nonsensical to argue corss-series powerlevels against. It's just that Fatefags always seem to want to insert their series into these sorts of discussions despite having a scaling that is extremely ambiguous (because the writer can't be trusted to create rules and stick to them) and based on individual matchups for the purpose of the story rather than consistent scaling. This results in a lack of feats and books upon books of lore that are ultimately meaningless because we never actually see the extent of any of it. I've never seen a fanbase as bad as it for this sort of thing.

Jotaro can simply outwait the servant that is using the grail to be summoned, until that mana runs out and then it's over. Even worse if there isn't a grail supporting them, as most servants die off pretty quickly with no support.

>I've never seen a fanbase as bad as it for this sort of thing.
How new are you to the internet?

>because the writer can't be trusted to create rules and stick to them
Sick hypocrisy, jojobro.
We aren't the series that pulled SAME TYPE OF STAND??? Out of nowhere because Araki was written into a corner.

Go on, bring up Shirou, EMIYA & UBW, I dare you.

>as most servants die off pretty quickly with no support
They can last a couple of days if their mana production is high enough.

FGO is not cannon.

Except Jotaro is vulnerable to the invincible Archer.
Good luck outwaiting Archer, who can last days without a Master and has no need to eat or sleep.
And likely has a Master for the sake of this exercise.

Okay, name one fanbase of a series, where the series goes out of its way at every chance it gets to explain that the powerlevels here are fundamentally unimportant and not the focus for battles whatsoever, with the supporting materials mostly to embelish the character with lore rather than scale up their power, and yet have the fanbase be entirely ignorant to this and try to insert the series into cross-universe battles despite it matching up very poorly precisely because it is being compared to series that do care about powerlevels? I'm struggling to think of one. Most of the series you see getting brought up in these discussions go out of their way to establish power scales, not the opposite.

>Archer
>Lose Master
>Summon UBW against Saber
>Summon shitload of swords against shirou
>Get nailed countless time by Gil
>still linger 2 days to deliver finishing blow

Jotaro will die from dehydration before Archer vanishes.

I don't even need to. He gave Musahi a skill that was explicitly described as another skill, just because he forgot he had that other skill. Are you really going to tell me Nasuverse lore isn;t incredibly vague on almost everything? Really?

DB, that was easy.

The better question would be can Shiki kill servants?

Attached: shiki_nanaya.jpg (270x365, 11K)

That's not only "pretty quickly" in this context, but most that can do so have some form of independent manifestation. In the VN I remember it being talked about the urgency of Saber contracting a Master that night if Shirou gave up, but I might be forgetting some details.

Star Platinum Over Heaven retcons Archer from existence. Jotaro wins and Archer gets his wish. Everyone is happy!

I like Fate but Redman surviving all that time without a master and being shat on by Gil was complete bullshit.

What argument are you trying to make, you autistic retard?
FGO shit isn't canon, retard.

Based

Jotaro is also invisible to Archer via his stand, and yes he can wait days. Weeks, and months, even.
You can go a few days without drinking, plenty have tried "dry fasting" before. It's well documented.

INDEPENDENT ACTION BAYBEE.

Servants leech of their master's mana, they can also kill people to get more mana so in theory Redman could just kill people to stay alive but I don't think that he would do that.

Did you really just try and tell me DB tries to downplay the reliance on powerlevels? You have got to be kidding me, no one can be that dumb can they?

Without sleeping either?
Jotaro would be dead on his feet.
Not to mention a single Broken Phantasm would cause an explosion too big for Jotaro to escape from.

But in this context there is no Master. So it's just the servant, with their own mana.

Ok then by the same argument Jotaro doesn't get Star Platinum.

Okay, so he would last a couple of days, less if he gets seriously injured or if he uses his NP or a BP.

Can you not read? I'm saying Fate, the series, goes out of its way to tell the readers that powerlevels are not the focus for these fights, they do not matter. That means it matches up poorly against series that do have powerlevels as the focus. Despite this, I've never seen a fanbase try to push the series as a powerlevel big hitter as hard as Fate fans do, when that series also follows the Fate methodology of not giving a shit about powerlevels. Not too hard, was it?

But Archer can't see Jotaro, so for all he knows Jotaro can fuck off and sleep.

JJBA also just asspulls every single fight though.

>a few days
try weeks. Archer survived for days on an empty tank.

Why? A Master is an entity outside of Archer. If you want to include a Master, then that should have been in the OP, because it brings with it certain effects on Archer.

>I'm saying Fate, the series, goes out of its way to tell the readers that powerlevels are not the focus for these fights, they do not matter.
They're not the focus but they still matter, that's the reason why Cu gets shat on in every route.
And let's not pretend that the series with Star Platinum, the World, King Crimson and Gold Experience sticks to its rules.

Why can't he see Jotaro?
Star Platinum is the invisible one, not Jotaro.

>FGO shit isn't canon, retard.
FGO is the new primary source, secondary-kun :^)

There is a difference between asspulls and not relying on powerlevels. JoJo relies on powerlevels because it's all about one upping the other, whereas Fate is all about hard counters and lore catching up to the servant.

> :^)
Shoo shoo redditfag

Technically the result of a viral infection.
Explained scientifically (sorta)
Not magic.

I'm not pretending that at all. I'm saying that arguing powerlevels with Fate is done because they are almost irrelevant. Hell, you have servants that are supposedly amongst your high tiers that get killed by cheese for crying out loud.

Wonder what they would think of eachother

>FGO shit isn't canon, retard.
Nasu says otherwise. Nasu's word counts more than yours does. Sorry.

Ok, in that case I say that the character pictured isn't Servant EMIYA, it's Counter Guardian EMIYA with unlimited back-up and mana from Alaya.

The only servants that constantly get shat on in Fate are Rider and Cu, the rest of them are heavy hitters that need what's essentially bullshit to defeat them.

But you'd be wrong, because the pictured servant is clearly the former, not the latter.

Nasu is a faggot that hasn't done anything worthwhile in a decade. And even then, FGO clearly takes place in a different reality with different rules.

Heavy hitters within their world, yes, but not anywhere else. All of the powers are very contingent on other outside aspects to work, or often times straight up don't. It results in a lack of feats, and that's what counts for these things. When you've got neither feats nor a number to tell you who is stronger than who, you don't have much ground to stand on in these sorts of threads. The series actually benefits from this, so it's always been strange to me to see a fanbase want to fall into shonen powerlevel shittery so badly.

You’re both under the assumption OP would care to post whichever version they meant for this fight, considering they’re using Jotaro in his cell for Jotaro’s pic.

This comes straight from her mats.

Redman snipes Jotaro, even if SP blocks it it can explode and kill him. gg.

>The series actually benefits from this, so it's always been strange to me to see a fanbase want to fall into shonen powerlevel shittery so badly.
First off, why are you assuming that the person that made this thread is a Fate fan instead of a JoJo fan?
And second, this is why powerlevel threads are fucking stupid to begin with. Shit just doesn't work when they're two different universes with different rules.

Yeah, this Jotaro doesn't even know what a stand is, nevermind how to stop time.
GG.

Only a Stand can damage another Stand.

I wouldn’t have gone there if you didn’t bring in the incorporeal bullshit.

I’m pretty sure they just made this to get replies. Which has apparently worked.

Only something with mystery can damage a Servant.
Jotaro is fucked lmao.

>First off, why are you assuming that the person that made this thread is a Fate fan instead of a JoJo fan?
I'm not. My point was to say it always seems to be Fate fans, like the ones in this thread, that are desperate to have their series be discussed in powerlevel arguments constantly despite the other series that get brought up (DB, Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, HxH, Index, etc) all being much more bullshit and shoneny with it's scaling system (Index considerably less so to be fair, given that even though it gives hard levels to half the cast there is room for matchups there).

>a stand isn't mystery

>Index
>good for vs
Now I know you're trolling.

Can Sherlock Holmes do it? He solves mysteries.

Whoever the author wants.

Yeah.
He's a Servant, after all.

What about Mike Tyson?

/thread

No.

If he becomes a servant then yes.

He solves mysteries too.

Yeah, but Jotaro himself can't move that fast. Archer can just jump to skyscraper 4 kilometers away in few seconds and fire his nukes.

>FGO shit isn't canon, retard.
Seething secondary

Maybe Gae Bolg?

I don't think that works, you're throwing Gay Bulge with the intent of killing Giorno.

Can Fragarach work against Giorno?

What does that thing do?

When opponent uses their trump card, it overwrites reality that opponent never used it and also kills them. When used against causality reversing Gae Bolg, it resulted in mutual kill.

Maybe whoever has his thing out first.

I don't think it woukd work,because characters in jojo don't have a "strongest attack"

If we talk about using it against GER, I'm not sure it can even be used because GER doesn't really have some ultimate attack, It just punches things.

>Fragarach, also called Answerer: That Which Comes Later Cuts First and The Retaliator, is a Noble Phantasm and Mystic Code with the ultimate form of counterattack. It is the "Sword of Retrograde" and an indefeasible weapon of the gods, divinely protected by some malicious will, that works by using a conceptual curse to warp destiny and a divine trick that uses time as its blade. It warps causality to always strike the opponent in the heart with a needle thin concentrated blast right before they unleash their ultimate attack. The condition for its use is that the opponent must use their strongest attack, and Fragarach must be used directly after the enemy's strike. It would normally be that Fragarach would kill the enemy, and the opponent's attack would also simultaneously destroy Bazett.

Fragarach explicitly is thrown out last to reverse causality. She pulls it out and waits for the trump card to fire

>Fragarach explicitly is thrown out last to reverse causality. She pulls it out and waits for the trump card to fire
So it would be a staring contest.

GER can just punch her to death and she won't be able to activate Fragarach because punching is not ultimate attack.

Doesn't Bazzet have magic buffs for close combat? Or does that not matter to stands?

How does Ultimate Attack work anyway? Say a homeless guy punches her, that’s the closest thing to an ultimate attack he’s got, does it work on him?

I think that a punch is too basic, maybe if he uses a bottle or a lead pipe it can be more of an ultimate attack.

It worked on Berserker whose strongest attack was just swing his sword real hard, so yes, Fragarach would trigger in that case.

Bazette has runes for a bunch of things, including fortification

No, in case of berserker she could use it any time because hit trump card was always active God Hand. Nasu stated that caster is terrible match up for Bazett because she doesn't have trump card and just spams blasts.

Probably wouldn't be enough to survive a punchghost type of stand.

What about like a shopping cart?

That's his NP, or maybe he's a Rider hobo.

Bag of pee?

That's not going to hurt you unless the hobo has some disease, it's just disgusting.

Caster hobo with anti-unit NP with poison effect

Archer can just snipe Jotaro from fuckoff distance while Jotaro would have to be in comparatively dicks touching range. Not even a competition at this point.

Star Platinum can travel outside range.

Archer has shit Magic resistance and Timestop would be nothing less than true magic anyway. Unless Archer is sniping, he's getting a hole punched through him.

If a stand user can become Jesus in remade SBR world, then it's considered Divine, so fuck your mystery.

He can’t handle the ORA

What about Shirou vs Josuke?

Josuke

>FGO isn't canon
>the author says it is, but I do not believe him so its not canon
What kind of retardation is this?

T. Faggot

Jotaro would beat him at vidya

>the virgin DIO
>the chad Part 4 rat
This episode cracks me up every fucking time, bless Morioh and its fucking wackiness

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Doesn't that rule get broken even in-universe? What about that kid Hayato? IIRC he could see Killer Queen, Bites the Dust, and Stray Cat. Then there's Anne, who was on the fucking boat when she nearly got raped by the monkey.

>Jotaro is also invisible via his Stand
Star Platinum can become invisible, assuming the rule isn't broken. Jotaro is still perfectly visible.

salt

Isn’t that because the monkey was making it visible?

Gae Bolg fucking sucks. Has it ever worked as advertised?

Okay, is it
>the man in the picture vs. the man in the picture
or is it
>both at their strongest

>the former
Servant Archer, contracted with Rin, a decently powerful mana supply, vs. Jotaro back when he didn't know what Stands were and couldn't even really control it - much less stop time. That is so unfair to Jotaro that it's not worth considering.

>the latter
Counter Guardian EMIYA with backup from Alaya vs. Jotaro at the end of Part 3, back when he could stop time but before Star Platinum ate its unexplained parameter nerfs
Archer has nearly unlimited mana to work with so long as he does get killed, so camping isn't an issue at all. Considering Okita Alter and CG Kerry, CGs are briefed on what they need to know, so Redman knows what Jotaro can do, too.
Redman disappears via spirit form instantly, flees to a safe distance, and then spams Broken Phantasms until Jotaro is dead. Jotaro tends to have to actually call "Star Platinum: The World" before he actually stops time, which is about four words too long before stopping EMIYA from disappearing. Even if he's still technically in range, he is effectively immune to all damage.

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It would actually be Star Platinum over Heaven

Yes.

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It did break through Redman's Rho Aias and it killed Shirou at the beginning.
Remember kids, luck is not a dump stat.

...Shit. I'm an anime-only, so I don't know what that is. I'll take your word for it.

He can warp reality but he has to hit it or something stupid like that

Is there no end to this faggot's bullshit? I thought that he was at his worst in Part 3, but it looks like the actual worst is still yet to come. Jotaro is worst JoJo, prove me wrong. Anti-Jonathanfags fight me

Its in a non canon spinoff

Oh, nice, thank fuck

I think GER's stun-lock ability would register as his ultimate attack, and if it automatically activates whenever anyone tries to start shit with Giorno then Fragarach could activate as Bazette tried to open the fight with generic attacks and GER stun-locks her.

>melee
Star Platinum wins unless Redman asspull some weird shit from UBW.
>range
Redman wins, even if SP blocks his arrow the explosion will kill Jotaro. Herc tried to block Redman broken phantasm and the explosion still took 1 of his lives and Herc is way stronger than SP.

Crazy Diamond is pretty powerful, what can Shirou do?

Trace the arrow then stab himself to gain a stand

Does he have to know about the Arrow to trace it?

You niggers are honestly fucking dumbasses and if we're considering both universes rules as equally viable then it's easy.
>Star platinum cannot directly damage archer as he has no mystery. The only way for him or Jotaro to damage Archer would be to somehow find some kind of magical weapon and use that. This scenario would not occur, as jotaro/star platinum have no way of identifying anything of a magical nature.
>Archer can't see or do any damage to SP as he is not a stand user. There's literally nothing Archer can do to SP and nothing SP can do to Archer
>However, Jotaro is a human male that is really perceptive and strong. There is nothing he can do to damage Archer.
>Archer is still a servant and can easily kill Jotaro with a single arrow.
>Jotaro only has Star Platinum for protection against Archer's attacks
If we're assuming Star Platinum is able to keep up with Archer's attacks, then the battle comes down to who can outlast the other.
>A masterless Archer would definitely last longer than a starving Jotaro. There's no way Jotaro would be able to move as he pleases, since Archer can very easily reposition himself.
>If Jotaro could theoretically outlast a masterless Archer, then he could always Fall back on UBW for. guarunteed win. He could also project Gae Bolg or Caladbolg, both of which Jotaro cannot counter.
TLDR; Archer wins every time because Jotaro is human. Feel free to prove me wrong

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I don't know if UBW works with arrows, but he just needs to see a sword to understand it and learn its history.

Star Platinum is kinda mysterious.

If anything, he's bizarre.

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He can only do that with Earth material swords, it's why he couldn't trace Ea. The Arrow is made of space metal from a meteorite - it's entirely likely that he cannot trace the arrow

I wasn't even the guy that suggested it, it just sounded very implausible.

Star platinum moves at speeds faster than light and can break diamond this is no contest

Oh. Then I guess Josuke beats the shit out of him.

I came to Yea Forums to escape Carlos.

joe would bash redman
the average jojo fan would drop strongest fate fan

This is sad.

Damn it Carlos

>any Servant
>faster than Dantes, who's faster than speed itself

Syringe that’s been used by 10 different hobos?

Assassin hobos.

Hayato could not see Killer Queen beyond a possible dispersion of dust, even then its not certain whether or not he actually saw it.
Stray Cat could be seen because it was a 'bound' stand, bound to that plant. The same thing occurred with Forever's Boat.

>Anne
Whatever happened to her?

Someone should make an anime out of that

Ger has a range. The question would be if the ability activates if the sniper is in range or the object thrown.

Even if it does activate then we reach another hurdle, Gay Bulge negates cause and effect and GER resets you back to before you took the action so what the fuck happens then?

IIRC there isn't time stop in fate. Even if it did exist it would be true magic tier.
So archer's magic resistance is irrelevant.

It would be like GER vs KC. Diavolo saw the effect that he kills Giorno but GER lol nope him.
Cú would repeat the stabbing actions with Gay bulge forever.

But KC didn't affect cause and effect, Gay Bulge does.

>30 knives thrown by an equally powerful stand
Nice fuckin wank there.

Epitaph can see the inevitable future and with time skip Diavolo can dodge bad things happen to him so it does.

That's not what I mean, Diavolo can see what's going to happen and avoid it and also make everyone else skip a short period of time, but the actions that were taken in that time still happen.
The idea behind Gae Bolg is that cause and effect is reversed, the heart is already pierced so the lance just has to get there no matter how impossible it may be.

GER power is literally remove the effect (e.g Giorno is killed by Diavolo, or Diavolo's death) and repeat the cause.

Fuck, you were talking about GER.
I should go to sleep.

But not if he gets time stop off first, depending on the distance that's a win for Jojo

One got his ass kicked by a rat, the other lost to his younger self who is just a normal human powered by mega autism due to the lack of Saber in his life.

you should have asked if any servants could possibly touch Ultimate Kars

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What do you mean remade SBR world? SBR world is NOT the same world as part 6. Made in Heaven always maintains fate, aka the past before the universe's fast forward stops. When Pucci died it just reset without him or a replacement for him sparing Jolyne/Irene a lot of trouble

The World Over Heaven is Dio's ultimate stand if he and Pucci got what they wanted or some shit. It's a complete reality warper as long as he can punch

You're complicating it by trying to make it specific. GER's power is to deny fate. The reason why Diavolo continues to die infinitely is because he will never meet his fate, it's the same reason why he's never able to complete the future he foresaw.

Rats are pretty tough, they can chew through concrete.

Did it get faster or stronger?

Araki forgot
I forgot she even had a name

zero is divided

a combo of Harpe and Gae Buidhe would kill him, failing that just used the Black Barrel.

>gil pulls out his own mask and gem from GoB
>becomes the real ultimate lifeform
nothing personel kid

>ultimate life form.
Gil is a filthy ningen mongrel. So he can only turn into low class vampire.

He is 2/3rd god

>demigod
Still a mudblood mongrel

>Stand Users can all see Ghosts when no one else can
>Therefore there is likely some relation between ability to see Stands and ability to see Ghosts
>Ghosts can see Stands
>All Heroic Spirits are essentially Ghosts in a contract with someone
They can see Stands

This. Conversely, a Stand should be able to affect a Servant, just like they can interact with Ghosts. Also, since Servants are capable of eating Ghosts and Souls for Prana, they should also be able to eat a Stand, if it can be rendered defenseless.

Lancer used causality reversing version only single time in the whole VN where Saber barely dodged it because of her luck. It worked as intended against Bazett where Fragarach erased the effect of lancer being thrust, but it still killed Bazett because the cause of lance piercing her heart was there.

It's not that strange why he wouldn't use it though. For most of the VN, he was under a Command Spell to not kill his enemies. It's a broad order so he could ignore it if he wanted at the cost of a rank down, but he tends to follow orders pretty well so he generally refrained unless he couldn't avoid it.

The reason he tried to use it against Archer was because he seemed to know Lancer's true name. And then he used it against Saber because she was too strong for him to not go all out against. Though she was probably the second- or third-worst opponent he could have used it on.

Guess I can never forget a loli

Makes sense

Not sure why you hate him so much, when Gio is infinitely stronger. SP over heaven isn't even canon, yet GER is.

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Kek

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By that logic Jotaro is equally fucked because Archer can just dematerialize.

Archer.

SP can't tank anything serious from Archer, even regular blows would likely transmit damage back to Jotaro.

Yes, and No.

MEoDP will kill if he connects, but the issue is connecting.

Even the scrubbiest servant will turn him into salsa.

What else can he do?

Shame she and that orangutan never fucked

The knives were thrown by DIO, not The World.

Not Worth.

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True, but I wouldn’t exactly call Dio a regular human either.

She's Jolyne's mother, at least in my headcanon.

If this is the case then Fragarach was just a poor man GER.
Instead of GER's "remove the effect", Fragarach kills the foe first to prevent it.

Nice

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Adorable

>ORAORAORAORA
Nothing personal, kid.

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Reminder that even with time stop Jotaro lost to a rat with a gun.

2/3rds of Cu's deaths in the VN are not influenced by powerlevels at all, though. The only one would be him taking on Gilgamesh in Fate route.

Hey now, he was beaten by two rats with two guns.

Fragarach also doesn't let opponent reach the fate of attacking with their trump card. But it's much more conditional than GER. On the other hand, Fragarach 1 shots servants, while I'm not sure if GER can punch servant to death.

>if GER can punch servant to death.
Servants have the strength and speed but their durability is normal human level (except Hercules). GER can blow up stone pillar with casual life shot so i'd say it can kill servant.

They are definitely not human level in terms of durability. Archer's arm passively allowed Shirou to jump from third floor of the castle unharmed without using any magic and he didn't even remove the shroud. In Fate route Saber could even survive direct attack of Enuma Elish for a second.

He’s pretty tough, it might take a while but I guess he could.

I think he has swords

...