Shaman King was a good shonen

Chicchee na.

I mean they DO make a point Anna cares about Yoh and most of the things she does is for his sake.

But execution, man, is all about execution. Doesn't hurt to make Anna be nice once in a while. But when she's a bitchy domineering gf all the time (who is SUPER GOOD at everything to top) is hard to root for her.

Also being strong has nothing to do with personality. You have plenty of strong women in anime who don't need to act like a bitch to prove a point.

Would it be worth it to read this now? I liked it when I was in middle school but haven't touched it since.

Well, it seems like as long as I imply that I'm a lonely cat person at heart, centuries of brutally murdering people and ruining countless of lives can be forgiven! Better become God and begrudgingly give humanity 5 minutes to prove they're not shit, before I destroy them anyways.

Yeah. Hao was to based for this world.

>Also being strong has nothing to do with personality.
well you can't really be a bitch without being strong , and thats what I meant she has a strong personality that we see she had when she had mind-reading powers but stays the same even after losing it

Shut up Opacho

>well you can't really be a bitch without being strong
Isn't this the very definition of pinkshit in naruto? Almost all women in shonen suffer from this. Anna is only different in that she doesn't job to anyone, but it's done in such an asspull way I can understand some people calling her Mary sue.

The Mexican dub was pretty based.
but that ending was so shit, it's on par with Bleach on shittiness.

I kinda agree to your point, but i always liked the point of view we get mainly because most of the time we things through the eyes of the midget friend, Manta, and the abuse we see it's only in public maybe in private, with no ghosts around and completely alone things are different, maybe more cuddly. But that's only a supposition mainly because i don't remember a single time where were hints about it.
I guess the most romantic part in the whole manga is volumes 19-20, in those Yoh tells the story of Matamune and how he met Ana. Basically it's about getting close to lonely people who has been betrayed and have problems to get close to other people and through effort will open to world.

>Isn't this the very definition of pinkshit in naruto?
what I mean is you can be strong without being a bitch but can't be a bitch without being strong, like look at temari and hinata tsunade. sakura was basically tsunade but worse, it really says something to her character when there's so many doujins of sakura being a cumdumpster.
I mean look at ren's sister.she stopped being a bitch but still strong(even though she might be a necrophiliac)

>Anna is only different in that she doesn't job to anyone,
this, I don't get, when did she fight? only time is when she was summoning a karate expert for yoh and she slapped hao. but on that note the anime ending with everyone vs hao gave her a better image

i'm surprised at how good mankin is considering it's a 28 volume long tournament arc
but the ending really dropped the ball
it was one of my favorite series as a kid
>we won't ever get a new anime closer to the manga done by mappa because hiroyuki takei is a retard
I AM STILL FUCKING ANGRY

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IIRC even in private she's a bitch. Doesn't let Yoh celebrate Christmas because she doesn't trust the idea of Santa. They do hold hands though.

>Doesn't let Yoh celebrate Christmas because she doesn't trust the idea of Santa.
you know, this could have been made as a good joke that even anna has weird quirks of her own but instead just comes off as another bitchhy rule. and the way anna ties her hair makes me believe she is supposed to be based on those old japanese women where people lived in wood houses where they were more meaty and ould tie their kimono arms to the back

> tamari, hinata

These two weren't domineering bitches at all. Temari was kinda cold but never to the point of Anna's coldness, and also her husband is a cunning smartass so it fits. Hinata is yards away from being a bitch, Tsunade just acts like an old drunk woman and the times she acts like a bitch is because she's reacting to idiots like Naruto.

I mean, putting them in context, the times they act like a bitch are not without reason. Look at Misato (evangelion) for example, she acts like a bitch only when people give her a reason to, and even has the maturity to slap herself when she knows she took it too far. The best type of tsundere is the reactionary tsundere, the type that acts like a bitch when given a reason to. See Kurisu or Rin. Tsundere that are bitches just for the hell of it like Anna or Asuka sucks balls.

To put things in context, Yoh is completely devoted to Anna, puts himself in a tournament to fulfill her wish, puts up with her many dangerous trainings, and generally does whatever she wants without complaining. Yet Anna STILL acts like a domineering bitch without the slightest provocation. It has to do with the author having a raging boner for her rather than her behavior making any sense. And besides slacking off, Yoh has little faults as a fiancee since he does her every request.

What happened in the ending that seems to make everyone upset?

> Tsundere that are bitches just for the hell of it like Anna or Asuka sucks balls.
to be fair that show is a case study
>hese two weren't domineering bitches at all.
oh my fault with the context, what I meant was that they were strong females but weren't bitches

most response I get is that there was no epic battle and it feels like a copout. this is battleretards reponse
other answers I get is that it was rushed and the death-revive boost was abused to hell and back and the no one had any idea what the god o.s. even look like besides most of the spirts including the god o.s. looking like giant mechas near the end

Hao wins, still hates humanity and plans to destroy them, but gives Yoh's party a couple of years to prove him wrong... before destroying them anyways.

Oh and also all it took to solve his issues was a doctor Phil session and a slap from his mom, I guess.

Anime it deviates completely from the manga when they reach the Patch tribe and the tournament happens in completely different ways:
In the anime all of them read the Hao book and gain power.
The X laws aren't as violent but still there is a suicide
Yoh fights Hao and literally with the power of friendship contains him.
The tournament remains undecided.
In the manga the two team split Yoh gains power from the Hao book and The Ren is trained by yoh's dad, basically because there is this master plan to build the five elemental warriors. When they reach the final battle they forfeit and Hao is crowned as the Shaman king, and plan to kill him in his sleep, but before they have to fight all the patch officials and the manga ends, if i recall around the first plant... With the final panel suggesting that Hao symbolically it's a princess and is about to be rescued by the heroes, just like that.

The mecha thing can be explained by Takei having a boner for car and mecha design. Really, check his Twitter, the first 20 or so pages are car designs. He even made a gundam, I think he's a fan. I suspect I saw him in the most recent Kawamori expo but can't confirm. Would be funny if we get a mecha alternate universe in mankin.

Well, every main character died and came back from hell with some big power-ups and they were still pretty far from Hao, not to say Hao + Grand Spirit. The best they could do was make sure Hao wouldn't mess up with his power (by calling his mom, of course)

Sounds based. Now I'm intrigued in reading it.

The opening tho
youtube.com/watch?v=nIRgKC7-D30

>every main character died and came back
This, this right here, is when the manga started to slowly spiral into power level bullshit.

Shaman king felt like a worst Zatch Bell.

Remember when death was kind of a big deal and it was painted as a realistically tragic event before everyone decided to start killing themselves to get an instant power up?

>it was just so full of old, outdated story devices.
please elaborate

RESUUUUURRECCIOOOON

B-b-but muh furyoku levels!!!!!

The constant reference to drugs was kinda hilarious

it was really the only decent ending, after all Hao can reincarnate himself at will and spends the time between tournaments training in hell so even if they beat him this time, next cycle he would be even more insanely OP so the only way to win was to reform him

I'm not that guy but i suppose he talks about the tournament thing, the friends, and power ups and training, but personally i don't mind at all.
The very first panel talks about the announcement of the tournament, the comet, and how Yoh life is tied to Hao and everyone it's related to him, most importantly Yoh didn't gave a fuck about the whole tournament thing, basically was forced to fight and train and in the end the villain wins. Those aren't that common tropes in shonen manga, where the main character always win, and always train and they never directly fight against their friends.
I was trying to remember how many deaths there were:
Yoh died when the Gandharas sent him to hell
Ren died twice: one by Nichrom and revived by Jean and the other was the Gandharas
Chokolove: it was one for the hell training
Lizerg same
Horo horo same
Everyone revived in the end, but meanwhile no knew what's is going to happen.
And call me cheesy or whatever, but i liked the soul train thing.

Maybe not top 10 manga but the Yoh/Faust fight certainly was

poor Manta

>but before they have to fight all the patch officials and the manga ends, if i recall around the first plant... With the final panel suggesting that Hao symbolically it's a princess and is about to be rescued by the heroes, just like that.
You know the real ending was finished long ago, right?

Yes, but for a long while that was it, and it's like the annoying part. I was happy with the kan zen ban end.

Power level bulllshit is what made the foundation for all of this.

>was
It's still ongoing

What happens in flowers?

>Shaman King was a good shonen
Nope

>How come it didn't go down in history as a contender for the top 10?
Takei had a nervous breakdown and flubbed the ending...twice. Then he gave us a shitty sequel that got canned which made him so butthurt that he quit Shuiesha to start another shitty sequel that retcons everything. He also turned down an anime remake which would have revived interest in the franchise because it wouldn't be made by the same staff so now Super Star and the other spin-off are getting no press despite how much he tried to hype up the 20th anniversary last year while his former mentor Watsuki has hit gold with the Kenshin sequel in Jump Square despite being outed as a diddler. In short the series its the best example of wasted potential as a result of the creator's incompetency so nobody really cares.

>It's a lot better than most shonens in general
Nope.

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You said generic but now switch it to "good/bad".

>He also turned down an anime remake which would have revived interest in the franchise because it wouldn't be made by the same staff
I'M STILL
SO
FUCKING
MAD

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wasn't it because his favorite voice actor wouldnt be in it that was in the original? and it's his work he can choose if he wants an anime or not

ok can some one just spoil this for me I just didnt care to finish

I really have to question his fucking mentality to do that especially given how nobody cares about Shaman King anymore and since he's not getting the Shuiesha bucks anymore the series gets no more promotion. I mean there were so many people asking for Yoh to be in Jump Force only for them to be reminded that Takei took all his assets to Kodansha.
>wasn't it because his favorite voice actor wouldnt be in it that was in the original?
No its because it wouldn't have the same staff involved.

>and it's his work he can choose if he wants an anime or not
Yeah and now nobody gives a shit about Super Star. Its not even an integrity thing its just him being a fucking retard.

In chapter 77 Anna and Yoh slept together and then a few months later its reviewed that just's preggers.

Anyways who cares since both Anna and Hao were shitty characters in which Takei was way too attached t.

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People bring up the sex all the time but i don't remember it being shown or even implied, people only figured it out in either the final chapter or the sequel when the did they maths of their kids age.

Yoh was just a chill Mc and that was pretty cool

no I wanna know how the ending is

It was because he wanted all the VAs to come back and to use the same soundtrack from the previous series.
>and it's his work he can choose if he wants an anime or not
You're a god damn genius! This is the most outstanding answer I have ever heard. You must have a goddamn I.Q. of 160. You are goddamn gifted, Private Gump!
He's a fucking moron, no way around it. How do you say no to getting your series updated by the fucking people who did Ushio to Tora? Jesus, they should've given that shot to someone with a fucking brain.

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Im just saying can't be mad for not wanting an anime but only at the reasons for not wanting one. I mean I heard that yotsuba's author didn't want one because he/she didnt want to see porn of her

Yes I can be mad, why the fuck couldn't I be mad? They already did one Shaman King adaptation and it ended up not being faithful enough to the original, we could've had a --more faithful AND with the new real ending-- anime adaptation from the anime that brought Ushio to Tora back from the 90s but no, Hiroyuki Takei is a retard. Why can't I be fucking mad, you goddamn idiot?
>I mean I heard that yotsuba's author didn't want one because he/she didnt want to see porn of her
God you're probably some imbecile ESL who came here from hispachan or some bullshit like that right? Azuma did doujins, he started off his career doing doujins, an artist who did Yotsuba doujins now draws the fucking Railgun manga which is fucking published in the same fucking magazine as Yotsubato you complete moron.

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Hao gets the great spirit and fucking kills everybody and they have to bring his mother in the soul world to tell him what he is doing is wrong to which then he actually revives everyone and allows them to live.
Later on, the the adult main crew say Hao was kinda right and they weren't able to change anything in the world.

I can see why us adults would like this manga, not because of no change but because of how real it is

It aged pretty well i think. It's one of those series that just feels sort of distinct and has it's own unique tone to it which is it's biggest strength. Gets a bit too preachy at times for me though (although all the most popular shounen are extremely preachy too so I guess it's just a formula for success?)

Bitch, please. Get back to the cave you came from, chilango.

youtube.com/watch?v=R5PM09ylB94

He's referring to the way the anime ended, user. Not the ending theme.
ESLs please leave.

Hao was established as basically invincible halfway through the story, to the point when everyone else ganging up on him wouldn't even come close to being a threat to him.
I'll take him winning over some last minute powerup bullshit anytime. The plan was never yo beat him up, it was always to talk him out of killing everyone.

wow thats kinda dumb

did takei get really good as it progressed or did he hire someone else to do the drawings for him?

I tried reading it a while back and after the initial chapters, which were really good, it started feeling more and more like a fever dream. I think there was like a tournament where Hao was in it and there was a fire spirit? That's where I stopped, anyways.

Yeah that's really fucking lame. No wonder the ending was so fucking shit.

This is joke right? As an adult I can see why people hated the ending ad why it doesn't work.

best boy coming through

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> the ending ad why it doesn't work.
>the world doesn't change and humans don't suddenly stop being cancer because a few people go around the world trying to make peace
I don't get how it doesn't work, its like saying neji wasn't right

It's not genius or exceptionally good by any standards but it's got the bleach aspect of representing the sort of punkish style of that time so it'll always hold a special place in my heart even if it kind of collapsed near the end. What seems like generic plot devices nowadays were much less common before naruto and shaman king really took off, although its understandable that people who got into manga more recently are turned off by it

someone answer this pelase (nto same guy just have same question)

The villain's invincible. I don't mean he's a difficult fight, or there's some left-field way to defeat him. I mean he's LITERALLY invincible. He's so powerful that at the end of the story, he gives the protagonists the powers he was previously using.

They can't stop him, because he's basically God.

I don't see why not.

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>power creep so bad you need to retcon an extra stat halfway into the story

Man, even though Flowers and its related content is pretty subpar, I still want to see Hana's new O.S.

It was for the first half then it turned fucking vulgar and way too naco for my tastes

WSJ? Wall street journal?

It took YEARS for the ending of the series to appear, by which time people already lost interest. The shitty generic anime-only ending of the anime adaptation didn't help either.
>I, Hao-sama (fuck off "Lord Zeke" and your shitty dub, though the OP can be tolerated) waited for hundreds of years and feel very confident about my chances to win, but now a few days/weeks are too much for me and I'll just go on a murder spree and break the rules even though I would have won anyway! I am so smart!

>Also IIRC Hao winning is still quite a controversial point, many people didn't agree.
I think it works because the central conceit of the story is that only one person can become shaman king. But then you realize that a lot of the main cast don't have dreams really worth elevating themselves to God status as they can solve them on their own.

Chocolove just wanted to atone for his crimes and spread laughter, he served his prison sentence and got out.

Horo horo wanted to maintain his people's land, he became a farmer. But also got shafted more thanks to flowers but I guess Red Ice is giving him something better as a spinoff.

Lyserg just wanted revenge and much like Ren had to learn to let it go.

Ren wanted to break the cycle of death and hatred his family created and did so by the 1/2 point of the series.

Ryu and Faust both just wanted to help Yoh since the former just kept pursuing his happy place and Faust wanted his dead wife back.

Yoh just wanted a peaceful life but also needed to fullfill his life's purpose of stopping Hao. He did the latter and is working on the former.

If any one of them had won it would create issues with who "was more right" and really, none of them were the right material to wield godlike powers. So Hao winning fits because he's insanely strong from the get go but misguided much like any other shaman in the series. Talking him off the cliff and then having everyone return to living to try and eke out their purposes to me is more satisfying although there could have been a longer epilogue to not leave it on such a somber tone and show us a bit more of what everyone was doing.

>Literal God is told by his mom that he's a badboy and should stop doing what he's doing
>Y-Yes mommy

Why do all old villains in the medium have such a crippling mommy fetish? What is going on.

I can't actually kill all the humans Yoh, I'm being vetoed by the shaman king council

Hopefully too many people didn't die to try and get this role

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That's the point of the Great Spirit though, that's why everybody wanted it.

>literal setup for ragnorok
could be fun

We haven't had a shaman king thread in a while

I'm glad

>join tourmament to be god
>turns out you just become one of a couple gods and don't get to do anything anyway

Yoh gets killed by a helicopter with machine guns

>Anna is a bitch with no redeeming qualities
>Not well executed
Why am I not surprised. Anna is literally one of the best characters in the series and one of the most competent, powerful women in shounen in general. How often do you get a villain that seems to fear the heroine more than he fears the MC?

Her relationship with Yoh was also great. Sure Anna is violent and she doesn't like to show affection in public, but she's always the first to acknowledge how much she cares for Yoh and the one that believes in him most. And yet they're far from being a stereotypical couple just like Anna's far from the typical tsundere.

Come on Yea Forums.

That said yeah, Takei's a retard.

Mankin is too patrician.
It's the second best only after Dragon Ball.

Ignore faggot plebs like this

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All of these are dirty speedreading brainless shonenspics who like terrible capeshit shonen like BnHA and can't into philosophy/religion.

Also, Hao was not invincible.
Reminder that Yoh could have gotten strong enough to kill him while he was training in hell but he chose to not do that.

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Horrible non-ending.

That's a 10/10 page there I must say.

dirty spic

>Remember when death was kind of a big deal and it was painted as a realistically tragic event
you mean in the series where literally every character was able to talk to the dead?
I do remember that one character who was entirely motivated by the tragic death of his wife before the others went
>y'know, we can just bring her back

FPBP

The magazine admitted the ending was rushed.

Flower&Superstar is fucking Cashgrab because
Author is fucking greedy

I'm convinced all of these retards never read Mankin in their entire lives.
Yomi cave was established early on in the series ffs.

Mankin is a battle of philosophies masqueraded as a Battle Shonen because Takei's first work Butsu Zone got canned because it wasn't "typical shonen" enough.
It's all about the author's beliefs(Yoh is his self-insert basically) and Shamanism is traditionally referred to the practice of traditional medicine men so Yoh is supposed to be the kind of protagonist that heals/saves others not the kind that destroys them.

Shonenspics can't accept this because they apply their capeshit "objective" moral compass to conflicts of cosmic proportions.

>The magazine admitted the ending was rushed.
Nah Mankin was canned back in the day.
Kanzenban ending 4 years later was good enough.

The sequels are because of japanese retards who demand them and considering Takei's other works aren't that popular he has to do something to put food in the table I guess.

Forgot pic.

Also would like to add that while Death seems meaningless if you view it in hindsight on this series imo Mankin does a great job with it.

Who can forget moments like Horohoro going apeshit after that bear gets killed?
Or that one moment where Ren lets himself get killed because of his guilt for having killed Chrom?

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>Who can forget moments like Horohoro going apeshit after that bear gets killed? he went apeshit because they killed the bear just for sport and were going to leave it there

>he can choose if he wants an anime or not
Yes and no. He has the right to decline an offer to get an anime, but he can't go around requesting to have an anime made of his series. Studios choose which manga gets adapted, manga authors don't. If he turned down an offer to have mankin made into anime, well he fucked up because he aint getting another.

Is that the face you make when your gf asks you to get her preggers? Fucking yoh

messed up my green text
>>Who can forget moments like Horohoro going apeshit after that bear gets killed?
he went apeshit because they killed the bear just for sport and were going to leave it there which is great because he was supposed to be an ainu rep

I've been following this series since I was a kid and as an adult I think that's fucking stupid.

His art has really progressed, but sadly he only wants to draw gundams.

Nigga the author was so obviously on Hao's side by the end and it shows. By the end is less about how Shamans and humans can coexist but more about how humans are cancer and are irredeemable evil. It's such a childish view and it obviously tips the story towards shamans=good humans=bad. Of course Hao was going to be right if the author makes the story bend to Hao's views.

Nah mate I can name other female characters from shonen who are way more sympathetic than Anna an equally or even stronger than her. But I guess each to their own, abusive tsundere was never my thing.

Well that makes it even worse.

It switched Magazines so no one really knows what it's place in history is. If it was still SJ you'd at least see them pop up in like...anniversary games and shit and people would be like "Oh right! Shaman King was the shit!" like they're doing with City Hunter now.

>The sequels are because of japanese retards who demand them
Nope. Shaman king is Takei's only successful series. In the 20 anniversary event he stated that it was his wish to keep bringing the series to future generations, meaning "I'm going to milk this motherfucker until it runs out of money" in mangakaspeak. I guess he's trying to do something similar to Boruto, except mankin was never nearly as popular to ensure someone would give a fuck.

Yeah, that moment is very brutal.
Horohoro is like
>"wait at least get Apollo and eat him/make clothes off of him, don't let his death be in vain"
The hunters be like
>"wtf we were just having some fun"

Takei really portrayed the selfishness of humans so well in that one chapter.

Why do you think that those subversions of typical shounen tropes make it good? Yoh and Anna sleeping together had no effect on the story at all and Hao's victory isn't that big of a deal when he agrees to go along with the mc's wishes.

I tried reading it but gave up before the tournament even started.

Kinda funny this is a manga that likes to shit on humanity so much for their greed, meanwhile the author refuses to end the series because it's his only cash cow.

He knows that he will go on a journey after this which might mean he will never see Anna again.

That shit always hit me like a ton of bricks when you see him the next morning smiling to his friends just before heading for America. This page when they're on the road always has me feeling gloomy..it has this very bitter feeling to it.

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Doesn't Anna show up in America as well? What was the point?

Why is Yoh such a bro?

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People complain because it takes tension away from a story in which death is supposed to be a huge story element. By the time yet ANOTHER character died and got revived again nobody gives a shit, specially if it's done to further the power level system which is ridiculously broken.

>main characters take advantage of a broken power system
>still lose
TAKEI == GODS

>His art has really progressed
I think it has gotten less appealing imo.
I prefer his rounder style from his early days and I miss his pre-digital work in general.

>Nigga the author was so obviously on Hao's side by the end and it shows.
LMAO retarded spic detected.
Yoh is Takei's self-insert not Hao.

The final message of the original series was that peace is not a thing you take for granted and that you must work hard for it and that the struggle basically never ends. It's a pretty Japanese message but not one you'll find often in shonenshit which is why it stands out among the rest.

Retarded speedreading spic.

>I guess he's trying to do something similar to Boruto
The other way around moron.
Flowers started around the same time Naruto ended ffs.

Takei really doesn't want to work on Shaman King anymore but it's the only series of his that sells I guess.

That's because it doesn't shit on them for their greed you speedreading retard.
That's only Hao's extreme views which pretty much nobody in the series agrees with.

Yoh's grandpa for example says that he understands the needs of the humans but that the humans shouldn't forget about nature also. Basically that there must be some sort of balance.

Shaman King may not be the best shonen but it sure has one of the best shonen protagonists

That doesn't invalidate anything.
Yoh is still going on a journey from where he may never return again...whether he'd die or become Shaman King.

>People complain because it takes tension away from a story in which death is supposed to be a huge story element.
And it is a huge story element.
Resurrection is a thing in religions...particularly in Shamanism. It's stated very early on that Hao invented the resurrection technique. And then later on detailed that he defeated all 67 lords of hell and Enma Daioh in order to deal with Taizan Fukun which enables him to control his rebirth. This is all based on Buddhism and other various Asian faiths and whatnot.

The conflict in Shaman King is about differences in world viewpoints/philosophies.
A major point of conflict is that Yoh's worldview is controversial even among some of his team members and that even Yoh struggles to maintain his beliefs when he sees the terrible things that happen throughout the series but ultimately he's able to succeed and stick by his guts.

It's a story about a person whose beliefs are challenged.

Yoh is the best shonen protagonist hands down.

I love yoh too but hands down is a hard sell.
>zatch bell mc
>tarzann mc(animal land)

Shaman king's sasuke was a lot better done as well

I really think Shaman king is a good series that stands above shit like Fairy tale or the fucking demon devil one

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>>zatch bell mc
>>tarzann mc(animal land)
Who?

Fairy Tail is bottom of the barrel trash. Even Naruto and Bleach are masterpieces in comparison.
Never put that garbage in the same sentence as Mankin.

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mc of animal land. basically tarzan

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It's a show about spirits and shamans. Honestly "death" sounds like a pretty tame subject and not an endgame kind of deal in restrospect

>mfw I stopped giving a shit about MC dying after watching Kamen Rider Ghost

Now that didn't went well

>>mfw I stopped giving a shit about MC dying after watching Kamen Rider Ghost
>actually managing to watch ghost
jeeze user there are better ways to get stomache aches

Never heard of it.

not really surprising since it doesn't really get threads

You mean devilman?

Neither does Shaman King.

If I wanted to read about conflicts in ideology/morals I would watch fate/zero.

But no, seriously, there are other series who does the same shit much better.

>Revival is ridiculous! It shouldn't be in this story!
>Who is Faust again?

Nigga just controls skeletons using furyoku, those niggas aint alive.

Who got it better:

"Yoh/Hao" or "Vash/Knives"?

Having a DBZ power system in a world with cheap revival techniques just seems poorly thought out, how are only like two people abusing it to be demigods

And? Did you forget what the ultimate goal of his is?

Most audience were Toonami(Naruto era) kiddies. So they wouldn't know about shit like Shaman King

vash/knives is simple and completely unrealistic from vash's pov , whatever it was, only the mc is able to able to be a perfect shot where his weapons are guns and somehow nevger kills anyone,not even with a stray bullet.still like it though. and knives was just murdering sociopath

Obviously the shaman king himself should have some control over life, but it turns out everyone anyone with decent furyoku could attempt it, pretty sure Yoh nearly pieced it himself just dying under a tree.

It came out before shonen hit mainstream.

That was just an assumption made from ignorance. It's like a reformation-era scholar saying that communication across multiple continents in less than 1 second is fundamentally impossible.

You're arguing against your own strawman here, nobody is claiming revival isn't unfeasable in the world of shamans and spirits, it's just real boring to have all the protagonists die and power up through it in completely unrelating circumstance.

Not very convincing when the protagonists dying would mean the end of the story (or feel like the time reading about them had been a waste), while on the other hand the protagonists never dying would make them overly lucky Gary Stues.

Begun to feel pike it was trying to hard to give fig and card game companies enough material to launch a franchise. Characters stayed pretty 1d for most of the series, and fights were never really that interesting because they revolved around fighters with smaller numbers outlasting fighters with bigger numbers, no real stratgy involved in them. Though I will give Shaman King credit for being one of the few shounens I've read where the bad guy wins halfway through and survives the heroes attempt to usurp him at the end.The heroes "win" by being lucky enough to have the bad guys mothers ghost show up to slap reason back into him after a Hail Mary team attack AND Talk no Jutsu fail

Hao was fine. He's the definition of a good villian with his own agenda and understandable motivations.

Been awhile, but that later shit with some religous group or something was aweful. It just did the ending like Naruto did it with poorly introduced villains and whatever. They should've just focused on exploring and shaman battles, that was the core appeal.

>fate/zero.

Remember that one elite Patch tribe fighter who was an honest to God, hand-on-the-Bible, grey skinned, egg head alien? That was weird

until we see it was just a helmet a girl was wearing. sad thing too since the great spirits look kind of extraterrestrial

Her spirit was still an alien and the patch got their tech from a crashed Grey.

Superhuman sense of perspective. Also, weed

I wish the fights retained the psychological warfare angle they had going on in its early chapters, where Yoh would find and exploit some past trauma or weakness in his opponents spirit fighter to compensate for his low Furyoku. That was pretty boss. And Faust, zombie cyborg Bruce Lee, should both have gotten a bit more screen time, they had some of the more unique and exciting fights

Not true, not how revival works in the series.
If you're too late then you're shit out of luck.
Eliza had been dead for years, only the Shaman King could truly revive her.

Wait...
WHAT

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Literally not what happened you retarded speedreader.
Yoh spared Hao instead of killing him like Matamune/Yohken did.

1d?
Fuck out of here. Shaman King has some of the best characters in shonen by far.

>Yoh spared Hao
Really now

>Characters weren't 1d
Ice guy remains a hothead retard who wants to make Ainu paradise on earth til end of manga
Ryu remains a vaguely homosex pedo delinquent with a heart of gold til the end
Lyserg and Hao remain the same flavors of twink they become til the end of the manga
Chocolove is le funni black man comic relief with weirdly dark backstory til the end
Yoh is chill
Fairly static characters with one or two instances of development. They're still charming and interact well with each other though.

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I asked this last thread but never got an answer. Didn't the same that asked him team went on to make the Houshin Engi anime? That shit was badly rushed.

I dunno, I'm just jumping aboard the rage train because I'm just heard that he actually had the balls to turn down an anime for the first time

>Really now
Did you speed read the ending chapters where Yoh explicitly says he discovered a way to defeat Hao but chose not too?

Hi

See pic in retard

Horohoro faced his past and got over killing his girlfriend.
Ryu...are you serious? He went from a huge street punk that had a reputation for being feared in the beginning to a respectable guy.
Lyserg literally was obsessed with revenge and gets over that.
Hao is a villain and even he in the end changes a bit.
Chocolove too faces his past and willingly goes to Jail to atone for his crimes on top of sacrificing his eyesight.
Yoh is not just "chill". He too is a very dynamic character, his idealistic views constantly get challenged throughout the series(even by his own teammates). He gets mad at X-Laws for the way they do things, He gets mad at Redseb for killing Chocolove and threatens to kill his sister.
Of course there's the whole Faust episode as well.

Character development is usually for mediocre underwhelming characters(or for bad guys turning into good guys).
Most of Mankin's cast are very memorable from the get go so they don't need to change their personality.

You don't understand what a 1 dimensional character even is. Read a 4-koma...that's 1 dimensional.

Hao was an interesting character and a very unique villain. The payoff was pretty weak, unfortunately.

Read it up to and including volume 20, then drop it like it's hot.

He literally says that he could have become strong enough to overpower Hao while in Hell in here Hell, the whole Osorezan Revoir arc is so blatant at hinting the ending.
Which lines up with Yoh's personality as seen from the very beginning.

The series is about Yoh not Hao.

Retard.

I just remember some team was looking to adapt old shounen manga and SK was one of them, that got turned down and shortly after we got the really shitty Houshin Engi anime which was badly rushed and skipped whole character arcs. I think they also went on to do the Karakuri Circus anime which was also rushed. If all this is true, we really dodged a bullet because that new SK anime was going to be shit.

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to be fair, for karakuri circus the author was on board, did the cutting and changes and I believe it was mostly a passion project cause they felt circus was never going to get an anime but they only had enough money for 39 episodes

Fucking bullshit. Does he ever explain HOW he could have gotten strong enough to solo Hao or are we just supposed to take this at face value? Because I find it hard to believe his other teammates, who've also been to hell, just missed this one nebulous ephiphany that was key to defeating Hao

Did the author of that thing get sued by the Moomin creator yet?

this shit is just hideous who draws feet like that anymore?

>where Yoh would find and exploit some past trauma or weakness in his opponents spirit fighter to compensate for his low Furyoku.

What a woman's tactic, kek.

>or are we just supposed to take this at face value?
yes
>Because I find it hard to believe his other teammates, who've also been to hell, just missed this one nebulous ephiphany that was key to defeating Hao
Yoh and everyone went to different parts of hell and Yoh specifically was trained by his ancestor, and also one of the reigning demons in hell. As well as being Hao's twin and having some advice from Masamune. Of course he can have found something different from everyone elses.

>If he turned down an offer to have mankin made into anime, well he fucked up because he aint getting another.
wasn't the Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer author like this too? he had crazy demands or some shit

Its basically what he did to Faust, to bait him into losing his cool and committing to huge attacks like a retard

Baiting someone to lose their cool is fine, but using emotional manipulation against them is below the belt and is a female tactic usually used because of lack of substance in arguments.

>or are we just supposed to take this at face value?
>Yes
Thats stupid. I'd be fine with it if it was something that was a Chekovs gun that I just missed, but its some vague "thing" his ancestor showed him. Who's to say that would even have worked against the Hao of 1999? Doesn't he get stronger every time he reincarnates? So where does Yoh get off claiming he could have soloed Hao with some technique or weapon his ancestor beat Hao with a hundred or two hindred years ago.
Its stupid and I don't buy it, sorry Yoh.

Only thing I remember is that Yoh had Brock's voice

Hell is basically Room of Space and Time in Mankin.
He could train for years in hell and it would only be a few minutes in the real world.

If Matamune and Yohken/Asakura Clan did it twice before then Yoh could do it too.

Shit art

Faust opened up Manta's stomach and was experimenting on him. Manta was about to die, I don't think Yoh gave a fuck at this point.

>Takei's word is stupid but not mine
Yeah no fuck off.

Stick to reading my reddit academia and one reddit man kiddo.

Okay, okay fine. Lets say given enough time in Hell, with the right training, he would SOMEHOW have advanced his Furiyoki and general abilities enough to actually kill Hao. And he didn't take this option, why? Because he pitied him? Dude, fuck pity that guy is totally going to kill you and all your friends if you don't do whatever you can to guve yourself an advantage. He's basically admitting to resigning his friends to death because he didn't want to be mean, and I hope he got called out like a motherfucker for that

Who cares?
Either do it right or not at all.
All he requested was the original cast and music, if they can't do that much then they can fuck off. The adaptation would likely be as sterile as Madhouse's version of HxH anyways.

Yuko Sato is Yoh
Megumi Hayashibara is Anna
Minami Takayama is Hao
Romi Paku is Ren

Other voice actors would ruin it.

Sorry, I'm a Shaman King fan too, but thats the epitome of telling and not showing, which as any highschool senior will be able to tell you, is shit writing.

This shit is basically the same as Joseph claiming he had an ace in the hole to defeat Kars easily all along, but just chose not to use it because it'd make him feel sad.

>And he didn't take this option, why?
Read the damn manga you retarded spic.
This is the same guy who let Tokageroh possess his body and he didn't even try to control him or anything.

Throughout the whole series Yoh always tries to help/save people.
He literally befriended Ren who was a sociopathic murderer at one point.

Takei's word >>>>>>>> yours
And if Yohken and Matamune killed him twice before in the last 1000 years so could Yoh.

Jeanne and Anna had each like 600K+ Furyoku by the end of the series and could have killed Hao if they joined forces so it's not a huge stretch to think Yoh couldn't have raised his Furyoku in Hell.

You're viewing it too much like a Battle Shonen when the series is just a battle of philosophies/religions masked as a Battle Shonen so Takei doesn't give a fuck if the power levels make that much sense or not.

>but its some vague "thing" his ancestor showed him
No you idiot. I'm saying that in hell Yoh had the benefit of his own area in hell plus the place he was sent to find the spirit of earth. I don't know if Asakura prime showed it to him but Yoh found a method to overpower Hao and chose not to take it.

But aren't battles of philosophies better solved by Talk no Jutsu?

Unless one of the sides is defending some flavor of "might makes right", it seems like any philosophical battle should be decided by the winning argument talking the losing argument into submission.

Whats tripping me up is that he basically condemned his party to die through his inaction, and fucking admitted to it. They were as good as dead before Haos mom showed up. Letting his friends die simply to spare his conscience the pain of gainining power like Hao did doesn't sound like this guy to me

>An anime remake of Shaman King with the QUALITY of actual animes, rushed story and new VA that maybe some of them might be good, maybe not.
Yeah, no thanks.

>But aren't battles of philosophies better solved by Talk no Jutsu?
Yes, Yoh basically invented that shit and used it throughout the series.
Have you read the damn series?

Honestly how much of a speedreader are you?
Hao loses to everyone's hearts and for the first time in 1000 years he can't read minds anymore because he's not alone anymore.

Lady Sati outright hints that it's Hao who summoned everyone inside the GS too in a desperate attempt at seeing his mother again.

Even before then Opacho was about to jump on the Black Hole Hao had created earlier and Hao closed it at the last second, showing that he still had some good inside him.

Yoh was fucking right, Hao was lonely and after 1000 years his chapter needed to be closed.
Yoh was the first person to offer him unconditional love. Ohachiyo deserted him and left him alone, Matamune turned on him.

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>there are other series who does the same shit much better.
Okay, tell me.

I find it odd how they just gloss over hao's mother was burned because she was accused for being a witch and make it seem like hao was just being extreme

Studio VOLN did not work on Hoshin Engi 2018

Because Hao was extreme.
Part of that is because of the Reishi which end up cursing him. That really made him hateful of humanity to the point where it fucked his mind badly.
The irony being that Hao is one of those same humans he hates(remember when Ohachiyo says "In the end you're nothing but a human" in the Mappa Douji chapter)

Hao took revenge on the priest who killed his mother but that didn't brought him happinness or his mother back and then proceeded to suffer for the next 1000 years.

Hao saves SK from being a generic shonen like BNHA

Shaman King was unique before Hao was even introduced.
Yoh makes Shaman King much more unique than Hao ever could.

Only hardcore nostalgiafags would care. Let's be honest, we all watched this shit with the English or latino dub, nobody could give a shit about the original Japanese voices. And as for the japanese fans, this shit is really old and nobody cares either. Devilman had a whole new cast for the 2018 anime and no one set netflix on fire.

>Yoh basically invented that shit
HAHAHHAH No. Yoh is essentially hippie Kenshin, the original chill mc who dislikes violence and prefers to talk things down.

>become evil because mommy died

Shit that's some hardcore mommy issues

Doujins when?

P.S., anybody else reading Super Star?

Loving the war-machine theme so far, and I think it's cool as hell that Hana's ghost partner is a WWII pilot

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>>Flowers started around the same time Naruto ended ffs.
>Flowers started in 2011
>Naruto's ending in 2014

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I kind of agree, while Shaman King might not have been anything special, it feels like its one of those series you don't truly appreciate until its gone. Back when it was running, it felt like there was an endless sea of battle shounen going on at the time so you could easily see why people call it generic and I'll admit, it was but it was the little things Shaman King did right that people took for granite.
>the art style(opinions may differ)
>cool unique powers and or weapons that isn't just punching shit or generic swords or main character with the power of making flames
>a non screaming, whining, or retard MC
>everyone and thing not always focused on the MC
>main side characters actually get develop, change, and get stronger throughout the series
Probably lost people with this one
>even with a large cast of character in a manga that's nothing but one big tournament arc, majority of them still got developed
>1 set goal throughout the entire series of stopping the main villain
>no new villain who was behind the previous villain who was behind the previous previous villain
I swear if Shaman King was made today it would probably have none of these things.

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Because it didn't get a proper ending until a shitload of years later

I don't know if that's true, but Houshin Engi's problem was the producers only giving them two fucking cours to work with. It was doomed from the start in that sense. It's really sad because the show actually looked nice even with the limited animation, had a stellar cast, and the scenes that weren't rushed and cut to hell were really good.

It felt like the team knew what they were doing but were restricted by the lack of episodes. I feel like if Shaman King was rebooted it'd suffer the same fate, and Shaman King is actually even longer than Houshin Engi.

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Yoh doesn't dislike violence, what the fuck?

His literal motivation for even joining the tournament was that the prize he would get is getting an easy life where he never has to stress out about anything

He doesn't talk anything down, he's just pretty weak so he tries to bait people into getting mad and wasting their soul energy or doing something stupid to give him an advantage

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>The sequels are because of japanese retards who demand them
Nobody wanted a Shaman King sequel hell nobody even gave a shit about the Kazeban releases because the original versions was such a fucking shit show. Takei saw that his career was going nowhere and everything he had done after SK had failed so he went back to it hence why we got the Remixes, Zero, Flowers and now Super Star in recession.

>Yoh is Takei's self-insert not Hao.
Imagine being this retarded

>It's a pretty Japanese message but not one you'll find often in shonenshit which is why it stands out among the rest.
Except even Japs hated that bullshit because they realized how backwards that type of thinking was. Even as much of a hack Takei is he admits that the endings were not his best but it was the only thing he can come up with. Also Flowers and Super Star render that ending fucking pointless anyways.

Nope.

Are you retarded?

Not the same studio dumbass. Mappa was the studio that was interested in a Shaman King remake. Karakuri was done by VOLN and Houshin Engi by C-Station.

Maybe a streaming service'll buy the rights and make a Brotherhood style adaptation. Imagine a Shaman King anime with Amazon money behind it

There you people go again, playing with that monkey's paw. Also I'm pretty sure it needs Takei's approval first which he already denied because reasons.