Luffy's behavior during the Water 7 arc was completely out of line and should have resulted in a complete mutiny by his...

but Luffy was right, Usopp was a retard

Luffy was hurting as bad as Usopp was, he was just more pragmatic about it

Bump

>the shipwrights had clearly stated the merry was a lost cause
The shipwrights that Usopp hadn't seen and didn't hear from. From Usopp's perspective they came back after he had failed and were ready to just throw the ship away (the ship is an obvious placeholder for Usopp; discard it if it doesn't provide anymore). Once he actually sees the full extent of Merry's damage Usopp stops denying that it can't be saved. Usopp standing up to Luffy was about him fighting for himself, not the ship and not just against Luffy's command.

Yes, he was out of line and that's why Zoro insisted to Luffy to wait for Usopp to apologize before allowing him back on.

>the "dumb retard that get angry by dumb retard things".
Luffy's always had a realistic and upfront attitude about injustice and bullshit. He calls Vivi out for expecting their war to have no casualties, stakes his life on his ideals and protects them, and can actually grasp the meat of a situation. Look no further than the recent chapter, where under suffering the prisoners are "forced" to obey, and Luffy just takes on exactly what they're experiences and calls them all weak for not retaliating. Luffy isn't ignorant to the weight of the things he says, he just believes that if it weren't worth doing it isn't worth saying. He stands by his convictions and challenges people on their oppressiveness and bullshit.

Usopp was being a pussy
Luffy was being insensitive toward his friend
as always Zoro was based

It's just to manufacture drama.

Everyone except Usopp thought the Merry was just a ship. Imagine if the kitchen broke down, couldn't be fixed and Sanji suddenly started bawling his eyes out on how it's absolutely irreplaceable and he'd quit the crew if they just bought a new kitchen. That'a how stupid Usopp looked to everyone else.

Luffy's the protagonist though

>Usopp probably would have kicked his ass if he hadn't been previously hurt,
Or if his ten thousand followers had shown up in time for the fight.

even Zoro isn't attached to his swords as much as Usopp was to Merry. Luffy loves his straw hat though so you'd think he'd symapthize better with Uospp.

Why do you think Sanji was forced to kick him? The reason I continue to have more respect for him than Zoro

your dad was probably a pansy thats why you turned out to be a flaming faggot

That scene had more development for Sanji than the whole supposed to be 'sanji arc'

They both acted like bitches, and even though Usopp was in the wrong, everyone was unsympathetic and acted cold towards him at first.
I liked that Oda introduced the first serious conflict to bring some chaos in the never-ending seemingly perfect chemistry of the crew.

>what is the klabautermann

I can't believe Oda still hasn't managed to top this conflict as the emotional peak of this series even after over a decade later.

But why does he say he's not a hero yet does heroic things?

>He calls Vivi out for expecting their war to have no casualties
That was actually quite good. And very surprising coming from the shonen protag.

How would the argument have gone down if Franky and Brook were part of the crew at that point? Along with Jinbei and Carrot

Franky would cry and Brook would make a joke

goddamnit why did OP have to go to shit

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He does heroic things for the sake of his friends
He has to have established a relationship first

He just repays the favor to the person that helped him. For example, he beat down arlong but not to save the village but to help Nami. If there wasn't Nami but he still heard about it as the village ruled by a cruel pirate, he wouldn't have cared.

He explains it before the first serious fight with Crock.
He thinks that Vivi's world view and expectations are naive and idiotic, but he fights anyway because she does.
From the top of my head I can't remember a moment in shonen where protag agreed with the villain before the fight.
Gave me a pause.
It was an excellent character development.

If Luffy didn't stick with his guns about the ship just because Usopp REEEEEd over shit he didn't want to hear, the whole crew would've lost faith in the captain. Luffy stood to risk losing one of his strongest members of the crew had he not acted like a captain.

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Power isn't the only thing that counts in sea. They were able to go through their voyage (especially sky island) because of usopp and his repairing skills. Luffy was literally fucking around in a barrel and was going to die at the start of the serie.

If it's bait having a debate over one of the most interesting moments of the entire series then I want more bait threads like this

It was the most interesting drama in all of one piece, only ace's death could come close to it.

glad to know I'm not missing anything

Old designs > New designs. Literally like reading a different story. Sanjis a joke, the plot is just go to island and rescue princess/ island from tyrant and 2/4 of the yonkous are jokes that aren’t even funny. Big meme looks retarded and her character sucks. Wants a family but disregards their lives like trash. Sanjis arc was just him crying about his family and life up until the climax where he was just written to get over it. WCI was a yonkou power level wank fest and Wano is some ukiyo styled war I couldn’t care less about.

They're not comparable.
Usopp breaking up with the other Mugi served as a development for him and the crew, and Oda handled it incredibly well. Ace's death is literally a character dying leading Luffy to take some decisions as a consequence of it.

we'll never get that kind of character development from the strawhat crew again

Usopp's repairing skills were amateur. It literally took Franky to body slam his ass to see how fucked the keel was himself. Usopp was selfish.

redpilled

He was in denial. Only Franky's intervention was a wake up call.

Fuck, this is just reminding me how good the whole Water 7 and Enies Lobby arcs were. I want to reread them now.

Not a ship

I miss pre-timeskip franky.

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Why wouldn't he accept? He's the captain and Usopp was behaving like a bitch and questioning his authority.

Oda got old.

Zoro was almost the only one save for Sanji that trully understood.what being a pirate fucking meant. OTHERS WERE PRETENDING WHILE BEING AFRAID OF THE AUTORITY

Implying there is only one definition of being a pirate.

Retarded OP and retarded thread.

>pirate hunter understands what being a pirate means

Reread his introduction. Helmeppo nearly shanked him

Go away negro

Honestly, I'm re-reading One Piece and just got back to this arc and while it's still my favorite One Piece arc, the Going Merry was the worst handled aspect. Oda completely ruined this arc in retrospect (and created a massively contrived "plothole" in the manga as a whole because it never comes up again) by making the Going Merry a living character who is a crew member. It ruins Usopp and is the reason he never became a good character because he was right not to abandon Merry and never had to learn any lessons or grow as a person. He went from being the guy too weak to keep up with everyone on a ship his girlfriend gave them to being the guy too weak to keep up with everyone on a ship the guy who beat him up gave them. He's the ultimate cuckold. If Oda had any actual balls he would have at least had Usopp left at Water 7 and have him reunite with the crew later after he's gone on some of his own adventures as Sogeking or some shit. In the end Luffy didn't grow as a captain either and without Zoro he would have failed completely.

Luffy could have told him to cool down and rethink things and come back a few days later,or maybe ask the shipwrights themselves about the ship's condition if he doesn't believe it.Instead,they jump at each other's throats eventhough one of them is in no condition to fight,making him feel even weaker since he couldn't win the duel.

This. At least in W7 Oda tried to create drama and develop the characters unlike in any future arcs.

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You're painting Luffy to be some asshole trying to hurt Usopp. He gave him the ship so in the end it didn't matter. Usopp also was too weak to come with them on further adventures, so he was doing him a favor while allowing him to feel like a man.

I hate that this is what those two have been reduced to. Brook in particular has potential to be so much more.

I think Oda just realized he can't allow the SH's to grow as characters and be front and center because it would mess too much with the formula (especially since they were now direct enemies of the World Government but years away from the New World even). That's why he quickly dropped them entirely and then when they came back they were just background characters with the civilians of each new island being the protagonists.

tripfagging?! in my Yea Forums?!

it's more common than you think

Remember when Luffy being all happy go lucky despite being a pirate backfired on him big time during Baron Omatsuri and some random family man had to save his ass from the brink of despair?
That was such a good movie.

Senor Pink is the best developed character the series has to offer.

You know, Oda always reveals side characters with bizarre quirks and then does a sad backstory explaining why they ended up that way but do you think he decides the backstory first or the quirk?

That's not what I meant at all,my main point was that the both of them could approach the situation much more calmly,instead of engaging in a duel that ultimately accomplished nothing.

But the duel was wanted by Usopp, not Luffy. There was no downside to having it, there are problems with how it all worked out in the end but the duel was one of the good things. Luffy gave him the ship and showed him he needed to get stronger so both sides won. You're just sounding like one of Oda's female characters that can't understand a man's romance.

Yeah,but it kinda seemed like a very spur of the moment thing from Usopp's side,even Zoro pointed that out.I guess the duel itself and the consequences of it weren't a problem,it's how they approached the matter in the first place.

Water 7 was apex one piece, i never got the love for Ennies Lobby, the Robin scene, Luffy vs Lucci and Sogeking were the only good parts

the formula should be messed with, both because it becomes boring if the same thing happens every arc and because the situation is ultimately becoming much more different from a random noname crew sailing around backwaters, they're getting entangled in all the important events of the world. Maybe his editors prevented him from changing it up too much due to pandering.

I think the implication is meant to be that Usopp is really freaking out about how weak he is after having lost them their money and he isn't really freaking out over the decision about the ship (he's only mad they are leaving it behind unceremoniously in the way he imagines they will leave him). In which case, the duel and going on his own path was the only way to resolve that. Otherwise he would have just been sidelined for the rest of the arc as the crying beat-up guy who was asked to "sit this one out".

Water 7 and Ennies Lobby are the same arc, including the bit at the end with Garp. If you think of them that way, it doesn't make sense to praise one and hate the other. Yes, the set-up for the fights was incredibly generic shonen-tier stuff but it was still fun and provided growth for Luffy, Franky and Chopper at least.

>just been sidelined for the rest of the arc as the crying beat-up guy who was asked to "sit this one out".
To be fair, he was THIS close of bailing out when he fell off the train in EL, and only because he got the giants to help he came back

And that's why i laughed at Luffy when Ace died. His autism, arrogance, impulsiveness, mental unstability, carelessness and stubborness finally bit him in the ass in the worst ways possible at marineford. Not that he changed that much after that. Remember when Sanji "betrayed" the strawhats and his autistic starvation strike so Sanji could forcibly return to the straw hats.

I wonder about all of that, stuff like Reverie really makes it seem like Oda is writing for an audience that hasn't actually read One Piece. I mean, the people he still aims it at are younger than the series itself. He probably legitimately believes it's better to have weak kid protagonists in every arc. Plus, at this point it would mess too much with the series to suddenly treat the world seriously. If he was going to do it, he should have done it with the timeskip.

I've never really looked at it that way.Whenever I read the arc was mainly about the ship's fate by the way the conflict was presented,rather than the other way around.

Because Usopp isn't a shipwright. It doesn't matter if he was an amateur. The fact remains that his repairing skills and his inventions made possible their voyage till water seven. It was due to his care that Merry's soul materialized and allowed them to survive the navy (and the sky islands). I yet have to see Franky's ship soul.

But that's quite arrogant for a leader. I'm still surprised his nakama didn't turn against him and perform a mutiny or gang up to beat the hell out of him, because Luffy's actions and thoughts are actually valid reasons to stop being friends with him.

>W7 is the only One Piece arc with character development

kek no wonder Yea Forums hates this series, they're too retarded to understand it

When the ship is replaced by Franky, so is Usopp's entire value to the crew. He is struggling with reality that he's not actually bringing anything to the table for the future Pirate King. If it were just about the ship, he would have cooled off when he left and cancelled the duel or just asked Luffy for the ship and Luffy would have given it to him. His struggle was clearly internal and couldn't be resolved by just being told to cool off by Luffy. At best he would have just repressed his feelings for another arc or two and exploded later.

He's not their "friend", he's their leader and inspiration. If Luffy dies, the Straw Hats all go their separate ways and most of them never pursue a life of piracy at all.

I sided with Luffy over Usopp. Usopp was being a dumbass. It was physically impossible to fix the Going Merry and he was delusionally insisting it wasn't.

I mean it's not like you have to make it edgy, but the strawhats are basically not relevant as characters anymore, only heroes. And making a third "dude I'm totally betraying you but not really I just do this because I care about you and the villain would fuck you up" arc? Come on.

That's nonsense. Yes, Usopp provided a minor service that was important at the time but it was an easily replaceable skill. If they had someone like Franky from the beginning (they never looked for a shipwright before they arrived at an island of shipwrights), they would have had less problems along the way. Even the flying ship modifications were built by other people. Besides all the characters who bring power, members like Nami and Robin bring actual special skills that aren't replaceable without scouring the world for a replacement. If Luffy had fucked things up to keep an Usopp who was showing him no respect he would have in turn lost a member that was actually irreplaceable. Zoro wouldn't have come begging Luffy to take him back, even now he only sticks around because he sees Luffy is chasing a dream even bigger than his and has the strength to do it.

Do you think Roger would have given up Rayleigh just to keep Buggy?

>Usopp probably would have kicked his ass

Go to bed Sogeking

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He fucking topped it in the next arc at Inies Lobby with Robin

Ace death was also the apex of a development arc for Luffy which started with his nakamas being apparently killed because it did show to him that being dead set stubborn on a specific goal, make COUNTLESS rash decisions to reach for it like engaging into fights, abusing his haki thus shortening his life span and defying the marine despite of not being prepared and being arrogant with the weakest people (a common trait of the D's. Ace died because Akainu humilliated him and Ace rashly charged at him) actually HAVE really nasty consequences. Most of the 1st half of OP was Luffy being almighty and autistic without considering others' feelings and the consequences of his decisions. Usopp ragequitting wasn't a development time for him because he still made some prick decisions. It was when marineford started that we finally came to see the consequences of Luffy's overall attitude. That' s why i was really happy when 1st: Ace died and Luffy went catatonic and 2nd: he snapped and went apeshit after he realized the consequences of his multiple prickish and impulsive decisions and over the fact he wasn't as mighty and haughty as he thought to be.

>Oda strung together Water 7-Inies Lobby-Thriller Bark back to back

150 chapters of fucking gold

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Enies Lobby was the best arc, arguably even better than Marineford. I miss pre-timeskip One Piece.

That is really a retard selfish interpretation.
The reason why Usopp fought Luffy was because Usopp saw the ship's soul. Nobody else did but only him. So abandoning the ship meant effectively abandoning a real crew member behind. He was fighting for a crewmate but the others didn't view merry as such (thus they didn't see her soul). Why it is hard to believe Usopp fought for a member instead of himself? He fought against Arlong's members for who? For Nami. He fought against the pirates alone for the people in the village. He fought gainst the mole and his friends for Luffy, roskong to die due to his injury. Usopp never fought for himself. He is the one always risking his life for the others. His dreams was to be a big brave adventurer of the sea, not risk his life everytime because of Luffy's recklessness. but he still supported the friend.
If what you wrote was minimally true, he would have abandoned the ship after he got it from Luffy but he didn't. He tried to repair it.

Luffy should’ve killed Usopp for insubordination & mutiny. They could’ve easily found another Usopp, his skills were and still aren’t very good.

I mean fine, but remember that Luffy heard the news directly from the best carpenters of the world, they were straightforward and left them no choice but to give up. Usopp was emotionally connected with Merry in a special way, having your friend refer you what some ship expert told him didn't elicit the same reaction and this when his denial kicked in. Honestly the situation escalated because both of them were too immature and unprepared, it was a circumstance nobody was ready to face.

I don't think anyone believes they don't still get character development but they get it subtly because they have become background characters. And the development they get is not necessarily what people originally liked about them. They used to be a family of independent loners and rejects who were going to conquer the world together. Now they are nine (or ten) completely independent people with a vague important personal history together who spend most of their time not actually bonding or sharing any personal moments at all. They are never even in the same area together. They trust each other but they also keep dangerous secrets from each other because they don't really care about each other as individuals but just as vague ideas. At this point you could totally believe they won't all go to Raftel or they will bring random nobodies with them which is very different from who they were before. In WCI Luffy has to rescue the idea of Sanji, not Sanji himself. This worked with Robin because they didn't know her and she inserted herself into the crew previously, but then they got to know her and that should have been the last time that dynamic happened. Sanji could have told them about the Vinsmokes then. But in the very next arc they ask a random guy to join them and never tell him about their history and he doesn't tell them about his. They never actually learned a lesson as a crew in Water 7 or Sabaody, they just reverted back the formula.

Jimbei being more mature would try to de-escalate the situation and get the to talk.
Carrot would be just a character in the background.

The problem with the timeskip is that it made the story no longer about the development of the crew. If they aren't strong enough to take out most of the new world without much strain then it renders the timeskip pointless. As a replacement however you get dressrosa where it's about Luffy and 50 new characters about 4 of which were maybe established earlier in the series. After Marinford and the timeskip if there were any character development moments among the crew it would make no sense as they're already an extraordinarily powerful pirate crew that kept to their promise to reunite after 2 years. Any drama not forced by another character (like in Whole Cake) won't work. Unfortunately that's the cheapest kind of drama and a sizable part of what made One Piece so great was the character moments. Add on top of this the pressures of Oda's fame (whether influenced by publishers or Oda it doesn't matter) and the state of One Piece is obvious.
That all said I still enjoy it. The first half was about forming the crew and learning what it meant to be a pirate and the second half is about being a pirate and getting to the finish line.

Sounds like you're a typical Usopp apologist. If it was about the ship, you are admitting Usopp is retarded because if it were only about the ship he would have cooled off and then come back and talked it out with them and then only demanded they help him put the ship to rest in a respectful way. It wasn't about the ship. It was about himself. The manga makes this very clear and only ruins it in the very end by making the ship a living deus ex machina, thus making the entire arc a joke just to redeem Usopp before he rejoined the crew.

They would have all died at Thriller Bark against Perona.

>minor service
>only one that repaired the ship while others tried to destroy it involuntarily
>literally saves the crew multiple times because he could bring out the ship's soul and its will to adventur
>able to free and save Robin and save Luffy indirectly again in the same arc
???
>Zoro wouldn't have
Zoro is just a swordship man. He is more replaceable than Usopp. Power is everywhere in the new world.
>comparing Buggy to Usopp
Oh, you are a brainlet.

youtube.com/watch?v=somQ0ivElz8 idiot

>literally saves the crew multiple times because he could bring out the ship's soul and its will to adventure
Aside from skypeia and Enies Lobby,I don't think there are any examples of that.So that's what,two instances,three if you really want to count G8 for some reason?

>Zoro is just a swordship man. He is more replaceable than Usopp. Power is everywhere in the new world.
They wouldn't have gotten anywhere near New World without Zoro. He was literally the strongest member of the crew pre-timeskip and is still shoulder to shoulder with Luffy. To say nothing of saving Luffy's life in Thriller Bark.

The fuck are you saying. Did you read my post at all? First, we saw Merry's soul way prior to this event.
And this led to the fact that Usopp viewed Merry as an official crew member. It is as if they were abandoning a dying crew member alone and nobody was really concerned about it. I understand fags like you are emotionally apathetic and thus you try to search for a personal selfish reason for a character's action but Usop isn't like you. While he is a coward that seems to be selfish, he really never ever fought for himself. Bejng brave doesn't mean risking your life everytime.

They're not crewmates, they're friends. While other captains could certainly have killed and replaced him, Luffy doesn't work like that, and you know it.

Jesus Christ, get your head out of your ass. I'm not saying Usopp never did anything good. Usopp can do things and is a relevant character, but he can do easily replaceable things (BOTH as a fighter and as a general member). Zoro on the other hand, while easily replaceable in theory (as a fighter), has a core role that no replacement could replicate in holding together THIS crew. This in part due to him being the first member but also being the only one similar to Luffy in ambition. If Luffy lost Zoro, he would probably lose a lot of the Straw Hats and have to form a new crew. Zoro (and to a lesser extent the later adults from Robin onward) are the only characters who follow Luffy because they want to. They would all have the strength, knowledge and willpower to leave at any time and go their own way (unlike Nami, Usopp, Sanji and Chopper) but Zoro is the only one whose dream really requires him to follow Luffy and he's the only one who really needs Luffy to become Pirate King. His strength is also significant enough that the rest of the crew trusts in it the same way they do Luffy, so having him leave would make Luffy's ridiculous stunts less acceptable.

Look retard. I can accept you believe your theory, but please try to explain it in a way that doesn't make Usopp look bad. Let's pretend it was all about the ship and not about himself. That's great. Now what? The ship was no longer able to survive, should everyone have just agreed to stay with him on Water 7 and not continue their journey so they could stick by their friend? Is that really the lesson you got out of Water 7? You are either saying Usopp was too retarded to accept a ship could reach the end of its life and everyone should have held his hand and lost their lives believing in his delusion somewhere out at sea. OR you are saying he just wanted them to send the ship off respectfully but was too much of a coward to ask them to do that and not at all because he had self-doubts but because he's so perfect and selfless! Do they really not teach you kids reading comprehension in school? There is no way to read this situation with Merry as anything but Usopp's own crippling self-doubt.

>lets ignore the times he saved them because of ??? reasons
Tell me your age pls. Even saving them 1 time is enough because else, the story can't go forward. Other instances are:
>literally saves them from peron that would have killed everyone because nobody was immune at the time to her power
>literally saves them underwater during the fishman's arc
>literally frees everyone from sugar's control and helps the crew fight the war
>literally creates Luffy's grand fleet crew members
>literally saves Luffy and Law from being forgotton forever and thus saves the whole country indirectly
Yes they would have. Zoro is just strength, that is it. There are probably many others that want to become the strongest swordsman like him.

>even Zoro isn't attached to his swords as much as Usopp was to Merry.
Except the Wado.

>minor service
>reattaching the mast
good luck finding a shipwright without a working ship

Usopp challenged him to a duel you retard, it was all on his terms; and he got Merry all to himself after his loss.

They clearly weren't fully committed, though, and their captain's attitude 99% of the time didn't help.
They treated the whole situation like it's a Grand Line cruise while pretending not to notice the whole 'sudden death at any moment' part.

This but unironically

>he was right not to abandon Merry
He wasn't. Merry was as good as dead.

I'm not ignoring the parts where he saved them,I'm just saying that him "bringing out the soul of the ship" helped them a grant total of two times.He might have saved them on other occasions,but the whole spirit of the ship thing isn't as prevalent as you think it is.

>The shipwrights that Usopp hadn't seen and didn't hear from.
Usopp went with them you fucking retard. Thats how the money got stolen in the first place.

>t. brainlet Zorofag
Usopp saved the crew multiple times due to his skill as a sniper. Tell me how many skilled sniper we encountered till now and how many swordsman we encountered. If Luffy lost Zoro nothing would happen to the crew. They aren't there for Zoro but for Luffy.
No, I am saying that Usopp didn't fight for himself but for Merry. Usopp accepted that there was nothing to do at the end faggot, didn't you notice? And it surely wasn't because of the crew members that heped him understand but because a shipwright told him.
Luffy didn't had to escalate the whole thing by saying that if Usopp won't listen to his words and abandon the ship immediately, he would be thrown out from he crew. The thing they had to do was bring Usopp and the ship to an expert shipwright and explain it carefully like Franky did. Usopp didn't trust them due to his nature (of a lier), because nobody saw Merry's soul and because none of them were qualified to say the state of the ship. But he trusted Franky because Franky knew about the ship's soul.

Do you realize we aren't in Dragonball where dragon balls can revive you and even dying one time means it is the end?

Unless you are Brook.

But we are in One Piece where dying is impossible unless it's needed for drama and even then it's often reversed later.

>Zoro is the only one whose dream really requires him to follow Luffy
Honestly, it's the other way around. Nami needs to go to Raftel to map it, Robin needs to get to Raftel to find the true history, and Franky's dream is supporting the Thousand Sunny. Zoro could very easily quit and still become the greatest swordsman, considering Mihawk hasn't been to Raftel either.

You're frankly delusional. I guess I always understood there were people who associated so strongly with characters they couldn't comprehend the rest of the thing the character is in but this is just sad. You genuinely believe Usopp was just too stupid and emotional to hear them out and that this is somehow a good feature. Franky wasn't an ally when they had the argument and Usopp left, if it took Franky to convince him and not the opinion of shipwrights then you're admitting that if they had catered to Usopp rather than letting him leave they would have just kept using the Merry and died in the sea in the next storm.

>be brook
>die by starvation
>50 yrs of solitude
>become a retard
As I wrote, even dying one time means it is the end
And how would have they survived perona?

All Blue is probably near Raftel too (nobody remembers about All Blue though)

You can't read and, as I can see from your writing, you are a pessimist that doesn't live in reality and only thinks negatively of every action people do.
I wrote that Usopp didn't trust their words (of the crew) because nobody saw Merry's soul, not that of the shipwright the he didn't meet. If they had brought him to a professional shipwright that explained to him the ship's condition, like Franky did, he would have understood because he isn't a brainlet like you. Instead, Luffy escalated by threatening him.

All blue will be what happens when the red line and calm belts are destroyed.

Why are you arguing this totally irrelevant point when the fact remained he disobeyed direct orders from his CAPTAIN? Even Zoro called Luffy out for being too SOFT and threatened to resign over the issue.

Nobody remembers Nami wanting to draw a map of the world either

This is a good thread

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Why the fuck would you want to merge the seas with the calm belt?The sea kings will just eat all the fish available,and the fisherman won't be able to fish,unless their ships have seastone on them.

I understand why you could convince yourself it works this way but none of the dreams of the other crewmates are directly tied to Luffy. They have vague dreams that they don't necessarily follow (Usopp and Chopper) or that there's no evidence Luffy can carry out for them (Sanji). Yes, the story will be contrived in such a way that he does help them accomplish their dreams all at the very end when he becomes Pirate King but realistically they could find other ways to accomplish their dreams or accomplish their dreams at his expense. Even the dreams that require getting to Raftel only require getting there for superficial reasons, they aren't impacted by whether or not Luffy becomes Pirate King. Robin can still read, Nami can still record data, Franky just has to set foot there and Brook can still go see Laboon even if Luffy never becomes Pirate King. But Zoro's dream requires Luffy because since Baratie Zoro has been pursuing his dream in part as a promise to Luffy and in Thriller Bark showed the resolve to abandon his dream for Luffy's and finally in the timeskip Zoro already abandoned his dream to serve Luffy's. So, only his dream is fully combined with Luffy as an individual.

Revolutionaries are a circus show.

>he doesn't know about this popular theory

reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/8ux6mv/theory_the_truth_about_the_one_piece/

Again, you keep talking about Usopp's negative traits and spinning them as positive. Usopp isn't a shipwright, he doesn't have some secret bond with shipwrights. If he can't trust his own captain who consulted a shipwright but can just trust any random shipwright he consulted, then he was a bad crew member. I know Oda is bad at writing Luffy as a captain but he IS the captain, in a real situation Usopp is 100% in the wrong. He should be relieved Luffy let him leave alive.

Sinply because Dragon can only get degenerates and fishfuckers

this shit confuses me though. Luffy is all about nakama, nakama, nakama - but then he is also their commander and can tell them to STFU? Does nakama mean "underling" in Nipponese?

and apperantly for Zoro: some narcisstic-egoistical goal to be the greates Swordflinger in the world >> than his desire to stay with his supposed "friends". Are the strawhats all a bunch of assholes?

Sea Kings exist outside of the calm belt, you know that right?

He's all about nakama but he's also the captain.

Nakama means member of a group. He's telling them, you are a member of my group. But it's HIS group, he is the captain.

Have you ever worked? You can be friends with your boss for sure, but he can still fire you for not doing as told

It's a retarded theory, people have rationalized it so much that I almost believe Oda will do it but it would be COMPLETELY out of character for the entire premise of the story and Luffy's ideals as a protagonist. Why would making the world safer and more generic and no longer ripe for adventure be a good resolution to the manga? It's better to have distinct and unique places than every place be the same but Oda's been getting progressively more globalist in recent arcs so he probably is going for the All Blue scenario.

Yeah but inviting even more of them is kinda counterintuitive,no?Especially since we don't know if the calm belts have any endemic species.

The SK in the calm belt aren't locked into the calm belt, they can leave whenever the fuck they want. They like being there because it's easy prey if you don't have seastone ships.

>thriller bark
>good

'Nakama' has more than one nuance.
Strawhats are 'friends' but their friendship is established upon tacit conditions. They aren't selfless, they collaborate with each other to reach their own goal, this doesn't mean they don't genuinely care for one another.

You're delusional, the seas have different climates just like the real world. They are there because it's where they have adapted to be. It has nothing to do with easy prey since obviously people aren't going there unless they know they can survive in the first place. Easy prey would mean every day hundreds of ship full of people get eaten by Sea Kings crossing the Calm Belt. Eventually the world would run out of people. Obviously they mostly eat other similarly large sea creatures.

Hancock has some snakes pulling her ship that can kill sea kings. They aren't completely unbeatable. Hell, fucking Franky built a ship that could do exactly that out of scrap metal

youtube.com/watch?v=gYz6al9vIAA

Sabaody archipelago is better than thriller bark

>being friends with the guy who can kick your ass at any moment and destroy your life.
genuine friendship it shall be.

based morj BTFOing speedreaders

>actual discussion
what da fug

Anime filler does for some reason, her room is full of maps.

It gave us Perona so yeah it was good.

Masayuki Takagi drew usopp and luffy realy good here

*well, really well here

It's because it's an impractical dream that she will never fulfill. She is the only character who can never even get close to her dream by sticking with Luffy and whose personality means she will abandon her dream the second the series ends.

Thanks

if he removed thriller bark water 7-marineford would be an insanely good 300 chapter run

why didnt they just put merry in the sunny and take it with them.

or at least the fucking head of merry so usopp stops whining. Luffy is a cunt.

>why didnt they just put merry in the sunny and take it with them.
They literally did.

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Your safe space generation is doomed. Only coddling a useless crybaby when it won't cost the lives of other people does not make you a "cunt".

>decapitating your friend and keeping head as a memento

>She is the only character who can never even get close to her dream by sticking with Luffy
Because of Luffy she is going to places she would never dare to enter because like Ussop she too is allergic to mortal mortal danger, the fuck you talking about?

>wasting space of the Sunny for a shattered unusable ship
It was time to move on, user. You aren't ready for the harsh life of the sea if you can't let go of a useless piece of wood however important for you it was.

Yeah, good. If you think otherwise, square the fuck up.

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You sound like a cunt expert

You can't really expect every person who would want to sail all blue to have a countermeasure to this like Hancock or Franky doIf we're going by the theory posted in the thread,most people wouldn't be pirates,since the great age of pirates would have ended.They would be normal fishermen making a living.So what's the point?

Does she have an eidetic memory? They don't even explore a good half the islands they visit. How could she draw an accurate map? They didn't even go to half of Totland's islands.

Once Wano's borders open everyone will have better access to seastone.

>ignoring the whole soul thing
Do you have vision impairment and you only see parts of the text?

Usopp's the one who was going ape shit since this ship, which is just a tool that helps them get across the sea, was a lost cause. Instead of trying to work out the situation and find compromise he immediately loses his cool, starts criticizing them and acting like a sentimental baby just cuz his waifu gave it to him. Luffy was completely in the right to shut that shit down because he's the captain. You can't just have your crew members fly off the handle in deference to the captain's orders like that. ESPECIALLY if it's in a situation beyond anyone's control.
Ussopp was the one who decided to cut ties with the straw hats. Usopp was the one who called Luffy out to a one-on-one duel. Usopp was the one who felt such remorse over his actions he couldn't show his face in front of Luffy for a while. Luffy may have been hard on him but they're PIRATES. If they can't get through a decision like changing the ship from the driftwood deathtrap that the Merry had become, sentimentality be damned, then they're not gonna make it in the Grand Line.

>Does she have an eidetic memory?
The fact a grown ass fishman was complimenting a little 9 years old kid's map drawing skills should be enough of a hint.

one amazing scene does not excuse almost 50 chapters of mind numbing boredom

Her dream is to make a map of the entire world, not a map of Raftel. She is explicitly farther from her dream following Luffy because he is not interested in exploring the world and in fact not going very many places or anywhere of value. She wants to map the whole world, something that would make her one of the most valuable people alive and sainted in the history books since this is a world that doesn't have maps and deep knowledge of what all exists out there. But instead, she's not exploring anything until the very end for Raftel. Even some of the places they are going like Dressrosa, Sabaody, Fishman Island and Alabasta or so incredibly important that they are obviously already mapped. Places like Thriller Bark and Zou aren't mappable since they are moving locations. Even Whole Cake Island was mapped and she explored next to none of it. The sorts of places she would need to go because they are unknown are exactly the places she has no desire to see. Her dream only exists so Oda can pretend she has one to fit with the formula. He doesn't write her as if that dream matters (similar to Sanji). Nami and Sanji have childhood dreams that they will give up on as adults, Luffy and Zoro will actually die before giving up on theirs.

>klabautermann

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Based. Zoro is and always will be the best One Piece character.

The fact that Sanji was the only one that took any action made me respect him that much more.

Yeah, cling to your soul argument. I know it's the only thing you have but since the ship died anyway, it doesn't actually change anything. They still had to either abandon the ship or die sticking with it. But please, cry harder.

>he is not interested in exploring the world
Spee D. Reader. You think Luffy's just going to settle down and stop sailing because he found the One Piece?

Still,there's the problem with the sea kings eating a good chunk of the fish due to their massive size.If all blue were to happen,they would need an effective population control method,on top of a way to avoid them.Merging all the seas with calm belt could potentially upset the ecosystem.

>Spee D. Reader
My sides

>He didn't know so that makes it ok
He didn't give them a chance to explain. He just aped out immediately and wouldn't accept what he was hearing. He was WAY out of line. The fact that he put his emotions first rather than thinking of the welfare of his crew shows how narrow minded his viewpoint was. They're not a bunch of kids playing pretend. They're PIRATES heading towards the The New World. You better shape up or ship out.

>Thriller Bark
>more like Filler Bark

>only thing you have
At least I have something to refer in canon when I write. You have nothing but your headcanon.

>t.edgy teen

>thriller bark
>boring
Do people honestly think this. Thriller Bark is probably the most enjoyable arcs in the series from a comedic standpoint. Not to mention having some of the best dramatic scenes and enjoyable fights in the series. I don't understand why it gets such a bad rep.

Luffy literally talking about keeping sailing all over the world after he found the damn One Piece, just at the beginning of Wano.

He's going to die at the end of the manga or go into space. There's no other ending that is in keeping with his character. He's not Roger, who explored everywhere BEFORE going to Raftel and then ended his journey. He's skipping straight to Raftel and has no interest in anything else. He blatantly ignores the interesting places they do go.

A "hero" does things out of a sense of duty. Luffy is a pirate. His entire life is living free. In that way he doesn't wanna be tied down by the label of "hero". He wants to do whatever he wants. Doesn't mean what he does is bad or not what you'd consider "heroic" but he's doing it because that's what he WANTS to do, not because it's something he feels he HAS to.
Like he'd help a little girl's kitty down from a tree and then steal her lolipop in the same breath.

also goth waifu

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You must be genuinely mentally damaged, this is about the reality of what was written on the page. Not some session for you to cry about what you feel Usopp was feeling. I have given you every chance to try and come up with a single explanation that makes Usopp the one in the right and you haven't been able to do it. It's because it's impossible. You compartmentalize every scenario so much that you must live a terrible life of misunderstanding people. Usopp was wrong, the ship being alive doesn't impact that because his solution was still the wrong one.

>He blatantly ignores the interesting places they do go.
What the fuck? Luffy is the first to want to go wherever fancies his eyes.

So you just skipped over Jaya/Skypeia then.

Meanwhile, Sanji called Luffy out for needlessly escalating the initial argument. Usopp was clearly still going through the emotions that the others were able to vent by beating up the Franky family. Nothing constructive was going to come out of arguing with him, but Luffy did it anyway.

This is the same guy that, when Nami explains that there are three islands they can go to next, responds "all three!"

Yes, but he has no interest in places as places. He wants to go to places that other people don't go to, he's not like Robin or other crewmembers who are fascinated with what's actually going on in these places. He can enjoy Wano because it's untamed but wouldn't care if it was a tourist trap. Robin and others would go either way. This is why Luffy traveling the world doesn't make sense. What adventures would he have in places that aren't adventurous? Unless you think he'll become a full pirate and just start stealing and raping his way through every island, it wouldn't interest him to go everywhere in East Blue for example. A guy who went to Raftel is not going to get excitement out of going to World Government Kingdom #117.

Usopp INSULTED HIS CAPTAIN
Do you really think Luffy would have let him get away with that? Luffy said it himself that he was done playing a child's pirate game.

I said he'd go to space. Did you skip over it?

Juan Piss

Enies Lobby is Oda's best arc because everything is set up very well and everything gradually crashes into each other. Each Straw Hat gets their moment at least two big moments to shine and it introduces Luffy's gears, Sanji's diable janbe, Nami's extended clima-tact, and Chopper's monster point. The mess of breaking into Enies Lobby with Luffy pulling a leeroy jenkins moves towards the rooftop showdown with Robin's backstory and the flag burning and that leads into the fights between the Straw Hats and CP9 that gave all the Straw Hats except Sogeking at the time an unprecedented extended fight against people who were at least their equals from top to bottom. After all that, it moves into a fight for their lives against the Marine buster call with Luffy fighting Lucci to keep him from going after the other Straw Hats, one of the agreed upon best fights in the series for its choreography, ability match-up, and ending that finishes right before the Straw Hats are about to be blown into oblivion only to be saved by the Going Merry in its final, biggest moment. It's a crazy arc of a dozen things happening that, if you read it in a sitting, isn't that hard to follow because Oda is damn genius with pacing and framing. It has one of the best flashbacks in the city (I'd say only rivaled by Law and Rosinante), some BIG moments that really move the Straw Hats from being a crew of nobodies entering the Grand Line into being a world threat, and even when it's over and cooling down it reintroduces Coby, brings Garp into the picture who gives a proper introduction to the Four Emperors, the New World, and Dragon, and then gives the entire crew their own iconic bounty poster.

I'm not trying to excessively suck Oda's cock on this but Enies Lobby is really what defined the entire series.

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That's exactly why Nami CAN fulfill her dream by following Luffy.

FPBP

a big part of Usopp's arc in W7/EL was about overcoming his insecurities and contributing in what way he can which is why Sanji told him what he did after Jyabura
One Piece isn't so childish as to just pretend they are a bunch of friends on a field trip, they all have to contribute but in their own way to complete the whole (which is also why Luffy says be can't be pirate king without his nakama, he literally can't)

The whole point is about Nami indeed getting to fufill her goal by travelling Luffy, which she does. Luffy not giving a fuck about "places as places" doesn't matter, the fact is that Luffy so far hasn't refused to go anywhere that he didn't like, when the crew sights a new island, Luffy automatically wants to go to it, Luffy sees adventure everywhere, I don't know where you are getting this "Luffy is only goal is Raftel and nothing else matters".

It shouldn't have gotten to that point in the first place. Luffy should have postponed the discussion as soon as it was clear that Usopp's emotions were running too high to be reasoned with. Instead he did the stupidest thing possible by butting heads with Usopp.

I don't agree with this part about Usopp not growing at all.

Yes, I get what you think you're saying because you're another of these people who ship them as a couple and assume they'll stay together when the manga ends. But her dream is pointless if all it is is her mapping Raftel, especially if those theories about the manga ending with the world becoming a globalist empire (the "One Piece") are true. Luffy won't help her with any of the important stuff which is mapping everything else, Roger could have fulfilled her dream since he went everywhere and traveled back and forth all over the Grand Line but Luffy doesn't do that. I think you could argue that is a mistake Oda didn't expect because he didn't expect the manga to be so long-running and lacking in adventure but at this point anyone can see Nami's dream cannot be accomplished at the end without a huge change in her personality or an asspull.

>it's a fucking shippertard
Nevermind this is your last (you).

How is that edgy? Let's be real here, Merry was simply not equipped for the new world. It's too small, gets thrown around too easy, and above all, was so bashed up by the grand line that if they tried to sail in it they would've all died at sea. Usopp was being irrational.

You LuNa fags will be first to get the bullet.

What the fuck are you even talking about at this point? How you can write these longass paragraphs about tangets and miss the simple fucking point that Nami is getting her damn dream fufilled by travelling all over the world with Luffy, regardless of his motivations behind it.

Is there a character in OP more based than this guy?

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I think my favorite line in all of OP is Sengoku shouting "GARP! IT'S YOUR FAMILY AGAIN!" as Luffy falls from the sky at Marineford. Imagine being one of the greatest marine soldiers ever and your son leads a group of people trying to destroy the fucking government while your grandson and adopted grandson are two of the most notorious pirates in the world.

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Because her dream, unless it's a mistranslation is not to map Raftel, it's to map the WHOLE WORLD. This conversation started over the fact that her dream is forgotten in the manga and I was explaining why it's forgotten. It's forgotten because it's impractical and impossible. Her dream requires a 10-20 year epilogue after the manga ends and there's no evidence she will actually do it because it would be out of character. The excuse you people use to rationalize the fact that they aren't exploring the world is they are exploring the last place but if whatever Luffy does at the end of the manga significantly changes everything, will Raftel still be an unreachable place? Will it be mappable even now? If her dream was to write down adventures into a book like Noland, then yes, Luffy could fulfill her dream. But her dream is to draw a map and given how the manga may end, it may no longer require adventure to do that and he will have actually killed her dream.

They aren't even going to fucking Raftel anymore dipshit, did you read Zou?

I agree that this was probably my favorite arc. Marineford is great but is really only focused on Luffy while this one gets everyone. I think most of the pre-timeskip arcs are more enjoyable because the crew is smaller so more focus can be given.

Oh, so you were just retarded. My bad.

Luffy has the biggest dick in the crew

I love how he kept laughing at Sengoku when he learned all the crazy shit Luffy was doing, I wish he was my grandpa

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Your whole argument is based on the idea that Luffy is just going to quit adventuring as soon as he finds the One Piece, which is horrendously OOC and alongside the fact that you still think Raftel is the end goal means you don't actually read the series.

Not hard when you can literally just blow it up like a balloon, being made of rubber is like tits on a fat girl, doesn't count.

Someone who thinks they aren't going to Raftel should not be lecturing anyone about reading the series.

Well yeah, he is a rubber man, it comes with perks.

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Just admit you skipped Zou because you're a speedreading fightspic.

I'm actually going to forgive this one and accept you have genuinely forgotten what Raftel is. Otherwise you can't possibly be this dumb.

It's funny that the person who basically set this entire thing in motion by brutalizing Ussop not only joined the crew, but also became very close to the guy he beat Seven shades of shit out of.
Just kinda weird that these two especially seem like best buddies now.

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>his skills were and still aren’t very good.
Dude can snipe people from miles away across water with heavy winds, with a fucking slingshot. The guy is basically deadshot. The entire point of Sanji telling him to do what only he can do was for him to realize that he DOES have a role in the crew, and that his view of others seeing him as weak was just him projecting, like many people with self esteem issues do. The fact is that Both Luffy and Ussop were kinda being shitheads. They were both wrong. It was actually a very realistically depicted fight among friends, where people are very stressed and high strung on emotions and say shit they don't really mean.
But at the end of the day Luffy was still the captain and made a decision. I fucking love Ussop but he went against a direct order from his captain. And no matter what, you just can't do that without consequences.

Isn't Yasopp closer to Deadshot?

Luffy did nothing wrong. You could call him an asshole if he did something spiteful like set the Merry on fire after beating Usopp or something like that but there would have been no problems if Usopp wasn't so childish and arrogant.

once it starts speaking to you after autonomously sailing itself to pick you up im not sure i'd call it useless. Just build the sunny around it, they already have so much useless rooms in the sunny as it is.

Maybe but Usopp is the one getting the super sniping Haki right now.

>rewatching the luffy vs usopp fight
>dials
Oh yeah those were a thing

I feel like you forgot why Luffy is looking for the One Piece and wants to be King of the Pirates in the first place. Hell, why would he want to go space or whatever if he literally only went on a straight line with some twists from when he entered the Grand Line. There's hundreds of islands he never got to explore.

Honestly Ussop Comes very close. Hè uses a goddamn slingshot. Give him a gun and he's unstoppable.
He wasnt WRONG. I even say that he's the Captain, and his word is law. He just behaved like a giant asshole because he didn't control his emotions. He was all too happy to take Ussop back before Zoro put his foot down and told Luffy to stop fucking around. It's partially Luffy's fault people even question his tule anyway. The guy barely behaves as a captain, and more like a good buddy towards most of them, and especially Ussop. Yet suddenly he's all "No! I'm the captain reeeee"
He is correct offcourse, but at the same time he was being a fucking jackass. It took Sanji licking him in the face to stop and think for a second. But the damage had already been done at that point.

I know right? I haven't had a true One Piece discussion that wasn't new chapter shitposting in so long.

They are still used in Nami's staff and Usopp's slingshots

If Oda had the rough idea of Sanji being the weak failure in his family since W7 then Sanji is a GOAT character. Actually we know he saved Kinemon since he was moved by sense of fatherhood but I'm actually willing to belive that the reason he was so adamant on helping Usppp despite agreeing with Zoro is becuase of that vinsmoke experience. Usually I'd call this a reach since wsj authors rarely have early grasp of non-mcs but he did mention north blue unnecessarily in jaya.

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Sorry to bother, but anyone can tell me where I can download all (at least to 900(+)) chapters, most likely PDF? Had fairly enough ofg JoJo although it starts getting good - talkin' 'bout Part 6 rn

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Memes aside I'm sure many agree that he's up there with Ussop and Robin in terms of development. The vinsmoke foreshadowing can be true like you said but it's hard to believe considering year gap between WCI and Jaya.

Yeah of course, I'm not saying he'd have the full backstory ready by then or even most of it. Just the idea of "hey this guy was very weak as a child and was shunned by his people for that fact" is enough to give oda the props imo.

Agreed. Usopp, Sanji and Robin are among the most developed characters in op. Hopefully Wano would do Zoro justice because currently he's one of the least developed characters.

You can't develop perfection.

I guess I'm unlike the rest of you in that I don't see a dumb happy ending that makes no sense in the cards for Luffy. Roger became Pirate King after his journey was over and had to disband his crew. What possible scenario that isn't the worst writing imaginable can you see where Luffy is the Pirate King and also freely sailing all over the world having adventures. He either has to go to a place like space where he can chase greater heights and truly explore the unknown, or he has to die like Roger so he can die at the peak of his game when he has achieved true freedom. Any other scenario means he will really only be the Pirate King in a contrived sense where he's not viewed as a pirate at all and is just a random guy who shows up places and does stuff and then leaves with immunity from the World Government which is run by his friends. The second he is not a wanted criminal, he will no longer be the freest man in the world but rather just another Marine like Garp. And if that's all he really wanted, he should have just joined the Marines.

they have a thing for building and art.

I think you're just trying to come up with an intentionally bittersweet end for some reason.

I feel like you are using development to mean arbitrary reveals about shit. Who cares about development if it's not realistic or well done. Characters that actually feel real and have genuine motivations are pretty rare in One Piece outside of maybe side characters (Zoro and Robin are the only two obvious examples in the Straw Hats).

I'm trying to come up with a satisfying end because almost all long-running manga have terrible endings written for the audience in the moment but never for longevity. But please, explain to me a way in which you think Luffy can be the Pirate King and also an adventurer on the same planet at the end of the manga. I think you'll find any explanation you come up with will only have him be Pirate King in a diluted sense of the term. I think you could maybe argue he'd retire in the way Rayleigh did but the only other answer is he's just going to be too strong and he'll be getting chased around by Coby till the end of time in wacky Tom and Jerry hijinks style.

water 7/enies lobby is by far the best arc in one piece and OP is a DUMB retard.

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is it even possible to be an adventurer while you're the pirate king? Adventures require danger, but if he's like top 3 strongest people in the world at that point what's the danger?

Don't think OP was talking about arc quality

It's clearly only a posthumous title, there is no way for Luffy to ever be a real Pirate King with the way the manga is going because rather than Luffy being anti-establishment of any kind and pro-freedom he really just thinks people should be ruled by his friends and in the end he's just going to be a worshiped god to the new World Government after he overthrows the old one. There aren't any statues of Roger, but there will be tons of Luffy. I really don't think Oda has thought any of this shit through. With the introduction of Imu, he's already ruined any subtlety regarding who the bad guys and good guys are.

A new generation of strong enemies coming for your head?

>I haven't read One Piece at all
How naive. Mihawk is the more bored person in the entire series.

> Mr.Prince
Oda knew.

He knew he had a secret origin from the start, obviously, but that doesn't mean he had any idea what that origin was.

Except pretty much every time he interacts with Zoro.

thriller bark had some of the best animation in the anime

Well, at the very least he was toying with him being weak, from north Blue, and possibly a Prince. Which is quite a lot to plan in advance. I'm sure the Crime Sentai homage family stuff came in later.

So basically you think Luffy will become Goku and start training the people he wants to fight when they get stronger? I can see that but that's not a Pirate King thing to do. The big problem with Luffy is really the Pirate King part, everything else could work out with the usual formula everyone expects. Basically the problem with One Piece vs. the similar series where a person just wants to be the number one thing or the strongest is Pirate King is explicitly a criminal and only a hero to criminals and revolutionaries.

Hey guys, 948 chapters in, just recently catching up. Does Luffy ever kill anybody?

the one piece is the original supercontinent that existed before the void century, the 20 kingdoms used giants to pull apart and create smaller continents

They will obviously end up shitting up the World Government in some way. Maybe even expose them. But not really directly, just because of the crews actions.
Because honestly, if One Piece was a napkin with the words "One Piece was the journey with your friends" Luffy would be like. "Fuck Yeah, and this means Im the Pirate King, right?" He doesn't really give a flying shit about what the title means. He just wants to be free and have fun.

He has killed people if we pretended the world was real, but because Oda doesn't write the world realistically, no he has not.

>that's not a Pirate King thing to do
Says fucking who?

I am totally with you on how they will expose the government in some way, though it seems the minority opinion. I don't think Luffy will directly ever fight the government in a great war like most people expect. I think what was good about the series was when the Straw Hats were more like Alabasta where they rescued people but then collapsed and nearly died or got captured in the streets. But since the timeskip, Oda has been going really hard on the direction of them being heroes and Luffy being some sort of revolutionary leader whose going to tear down all the governments and impose new ones with people he likes. Reverie also went hard on the idea that they will somehow redeem the World Government by just killing the bad guy at the top. If Luffy just believes he's the Pirate King but he's not actually, I think that will be a weak ending but I agree that is probably what will happen. Oda's not going to write an end where Luffy is still seen as a pirate at all.

This. He's actually right in that Zoro's ambition equals Luffy's and that this is important, but its for the exact opposite reason he says. Despite having great ambition he could accomplish without the straw hats he chooses to stick with them anyway.

Luffy. He wants to be the freest person in the world. Being stuck waiting for other people to challenge his freedom is not being free at all. In the current manga, Rayleigh is more free than any of the Yonko for example because nobody bothers him. Though on the other hand, the Yonko are more free to control other people but we all know Luffy doesn't want that. Like Luffy probably thinks he wants to be Shanks but from what we've seen of Shanks, he's very much not free and spends all his time manipulating other people to keep the world how he wants it. Even Dragon isn't free because while nobody bothers him, he has to run a massive operation all over the world.

I actually did say that in my reply to that post >But Zoro's dream requires Luffy because since Baratie Zoro has been pursuing his dream in part as a promise to Luffy and in Thriller Bark showed the resolve to abandon his dream for Luffy's and finally in the timeskip Zoro already abandoned his dream to serve Luffy's. So, only his dream is fully combined with Luffy as an individual.

I don't think you really have a firm grasp of Luffy's character.

He's written to be pretty inconsistent for gags, so he is hard to get a read on but I'm really criticizing Oda more than I am interpreting Luffy. I think Oda either didn't understand who he wanted Luffy to be, changed his mind midway through or was pressured by editors.

No, you're just a retard, plain and simple.

That's where I stopped watching

You think Luffy wants to be the Pirate King because he wants to be a hero. I think he doesn't want to be a hero. We'll see what Oda decides in 15 years.

Why?

No, I think Luffy wants to be PK because he loves adventure, you're projecting your retarded arguments onto others despite them not making a lick of sense.

>15
50

>He's written to be pretty inconsistent for gags
Luffy is pretty much the most consistent character in the entire series, the way he acts dumb now is the exact same as he did on the first chapters, the way gives a lesson on freedom and priorities is the exact same he did back in Alabasta.

Usopp was being a baby, Luffy was in the right.

You've got some issues user

Luffy isn't retarded, his real self hides under a merry childish persona

So you are saying he wants to be the idea of a Pirate King because he doesn't understand what it is? He already explained in Sabaody he thinks the Pirate King is the freest person in the world so all he really wants is to be free. The only question here is whether his definition of free involves actually being a pirate or not. With the way the series is going and you want it to go, it seems he's just going to end up a generic adventurer who is respected everywhere, not a pirate. I think that's fine, but it's not a Pirate King and it's really seems Oda decided to go this route midway through the series and didn't originally intend this.

No, killing is reserved for Zoro.

Yes, he's consistently inconsistent. That's not always a good thing.

>it seems he's just going to end up a generic adventurer who is respected everywhere, not a pirate.
Except no? Not all pirates rape and pillage innocent civilians, some only attack the government/other pirates.

It's amazing how you can give this long winded arguments while missing several core ideas the series' itself has presented, like what a Pirate is in the first place, since the very beginning the series hammers in your head that there's no actual definite idea of what a Pirate is in the series, there are many who have differing ideals, Luffy is one of them. Pillage, Rape and Murder wasn't even the set standard in the real world.

Ah I see, you are so utterly stupid that you think a character reacting different in different situations is "inconsistency". Luffy is consistent in calling out people when they defy his ideals, Luffy is consistent is asking if a creature he finds can poop.

Jesus Christ, what a random extreme escalation. I never said I expect Luffy to steal, rape and pillage but he at bare minimum has to be a criminal (against the government). But he isn't against the government anymore and is becoming less so with each arc and if he's going to travel the world freely (that means all of it and not just criminal havens like the New World), he can't be a criminal.

>But he isn't against the government anymore and is becoming less so with each arc
What the actual fuck are you smoking?

He kills someone in 949

I said he was inconsistent for gags, not that he completely changes his character. But as stakes get higher and situations get more serious, those inconsistent gags become more and more ridiculous. Stuff like sleeping through and ignoring serious stuff about people he supposedly cares about and betraying everyone for meat are the sorts of weird character quirks that could lead to him being just as evil as Goku or something.

Did you skip Wano, did you skip Reverie, did you skip Dressrosa, did you skip Punk Hazard, did you skip Fishman Island? Seems like it.

>thinking he is dead.
Pell is the living proof that in One Piece a character is only dead when the cast unanimously agrees they are dead (Pedro) or there's a body and a burial for them (Ace/Whitebeard).

You can't skip something currently in progress.
>did you skip Reverie, did you skip Dressrosa, did you skip Punk Hazard, did you skip Fishman Island
What the fuck do any of these have to do with him being allegedly pro government? Especially Punk fucking Hazard?

Yeah but the thing is Luffy still does everything he does simply because he wants to. Hè doesn't really want to be a Hero. If people see him as one in the end(or as the biggest villain ever) it will not matter to him at all. Het just wants to have fun and become Pirate King.

Why do people think Luffy is Pro-Government at all?

Luffy rarely ever goes directly against the World Government unless it was Robin or Ace. Literally almost every other arc, it revolves around Luffy fighting pirates or warlords or Yonkous now.

Read 1 more chapter.

RIP POUN D. and Monet

*was living proof

Typical speedreader. Pre-timeskip One Piece concluded with Luffy and his crew declaring war on the World Government and the Marines killing his brother in front of him and nearly killing him. They seemed to be the bad guys.

But then, post time-skip One Piece:
>Fishman Island
The entire arc is about Luffy stopping a revolution so that the royalty can fulfill their dream of selling out the country to the WG who wronged them, and then the royalty proceeds to do exactly that even as their Princess gets publicly molested as we all knew would happen
>Punk Hazard
Finally establishes that Luffy is just another rogue Marine in principle as all all his allies are now similarly rebellious employees of the WG
>Dressrosa
While it's fair that he overthrew Doflamingo, and that isn't different from Alabasta, the difference here is he did it as a tool of the government. Whereas before his actions would have exposed them, here was openly used by an Admiral to reform the WG, removing one of the most corrupt things about the WG previously.
>Reverie
This arc very explicitly showed Oda's plans for the WG, we have now fully confirmed that all those royals Luffy helped in the past are going to reform the WG and make them the good guys rather than Dragon successfully overthrowing them. We see they openly collaborate with Shanks who obviously can't be evil and Luffy now openly has many powerful allies in the Marines and WG and the only reason the WG is even seen as maybe bad is because of some random guy at the top rather than the organization as a whole being a bad idea. This has fundamentally changed the entire dynamic of the manga from a grey area to a black and white one where the WG will be the good guys at the end because Luffy reformed them.
>Wano
Well, the whole premise of this arc is globalist garbage. You can bet they'll be joining the WG at the end. Elbaf will be exactly the same too. Luffy's getting these rogue states under control so the WG can reap the rewards.

Pedro isn't dead. You don't honestly believe he's dead, do you? How can simultaneously have the right idea but come to the wrong conclusion. Nobody in this manga has died except people in flashbacks and Ace/Whitebeard. Everyone else will never be confirmed dead.

>and Luffy being some sort of revolutionary leader whose going to tear down all the governments and impose new ones with people he likes.
While this may happen, Luffy isn't going to intentionally do this at all. This is like saying "Luffy is the commander of a huge Straw Hat fleet" and actually believing he rallied all those people to his side when all those people just chose to follow him and he didn't give a shit

Does anyone miss the more innocent days of when Luffy didn't murder people?

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This, except Pedro, Pound, Monet, and Vergo are dead. Dead until confirmed alive.

>that could lead to him being just as evil as Goku or something.
Looks like you don't have that great of a grip on Goku's character either. The fact that you take aspects like Luffy sleeping through serious situations and the like as some kind of detriment really indicates you don't get Luffy at all

>Luffy hasn't faced the WG directly in a while now, therefore he is a full blown honorary Marine.
Damn, what that's some heavy mental gymnasts.

>So you are saying he wants to be the idea of a Pirate King because he doesn't understand what it is?
That is literally literally the point of the journey, did you just completely fucking forget when Rayleigh totally could have told them what One Piece was but Luffy told him not to because that wouldn't make it fun anymore?

>But he isn't against the government anymore and is becoming less so with each arc
What the fuck

Oh my god, I can't believe how hard someone can misunderstand a children's comic

Probably an MHA fan

>One Piece a character is only dead when the cast unanimously agrees they are dead
That was the case for Pell too. And other pre-TS fake deaths.

Ok, I should have figured this out a while back, it's clear you're just a shitposter. Now apologize for wasting my time.

Here have been the final bosses of every arc:

Romance Dawn: WG
Orange Town: gag character
Syrup Village: random criminal
Baratie: random criminal
Arlong Park: WG
Loguetown: WG
Reverse Mountain: WG
Whiskey Peak: WG
Little Garden: WG
Drum Island: WG
Alabasta: WG
Jaya: WG
Skypeia: some random genocidal maniac who probably would have been promoted to Admiral if the Marines knew about him
Long Ring Long Land: gag character
Water 7/Enies Lobby: WG
Thriller Bark: WG
Sabaody: WG
Amazon Lily: WG
Impel Down: WG
Marineford: WG
>timeskip
Fishman Island: anti-WG faction
Punk Hazard: a rogue agent the WG wants to stop
Dressrosa: a rogue agent the WG wants to stop
Zou: a pirate the WG wants to stop
WCI: a pirate the WG wants to stop
Reverie: conflict between good WG and bad WG
Wano: a pirate the WG wants to stop

Face it, the Straw Hats switched sides.

Based.

Not only are you retarded, you are quoting the wrong person

He only has a problem with the alruistic implications of being a hero. This is brought to attention in Fishman Island when he denies being a hero, because a hero is someone who would share their meals with other people.
He's willing to put his life on the line for people he cares about, but not willing to lift a finger for people he doesn't know or respect.

I get these manga are written for children, but that doesn't mean you have to interpret it like a child. Goku is so fucking insane it really made his character intolerable in some arcs. I don't mind Luffy having similar quirks but it can be annoying because it means he will never grow up. There's a difference between sleeping through your crazy grandpa lecturing you (Ennies Lobby) which is funny or sleeping through any serious discussion which leads to you being an unnaturally naive kid (Fishman Island) that's leading armies. It's not really clear Luffy thinks through his positions on anything at all. We accept it because he always ends up in the perfect situation but had he met people who weren't pure kids in all these new places he goes, can you be sure he'd fight for the same side? He instantly trusted Law but what if he had encountered one of the Supernovas or Shichibukai who had bad intentions and trusted them? Doflamingo could have easily pulled him over to his side if he'd met him before Law.

Oda strictly follows the "if it ain't broke, dont fix it formula."

It's why Oda is so damn successful

>a rogue agent the WG wants to stop
By that logic Whiskey peak, Little Garden, Alabasta, and Jaya are the same.

No, the government didn't want to stop Baroque Works or Crocodile. Luffy forced them to by defeating them himself and they covered it up. Total reverse of Punk Hazard/Dressrosa. How can you not see that? It even included the same Marine who was his enemy in the Alabasta Saga being his ally in the Dressrosa Saga.

Also, Jaya didn't actually have a villain in the traditional sense (since similar to Zou it was through flashback) but the villain was the WG who covered up world history so generations of Montblanc's could suffer and try to redeem themselves. I guess if you want to see the villain as Bellamy I could have changed it to "gag character" and I probably should have added WG to Long Ring Long Land due to the end of that arc.

>No, the government didn't want to stop Baroque Works or Crocodile
They didn't know what he was doing because he didn't have a big swinging Celestial Dragon dick and hid in the shadows like a pussy.

>I get these manga are written for children, but that doesn't mean you have to interpret it like a child.
It's more like you take them as seriously as the author intends to.

>It's not really clear Luffy thinks through his positions on anything at all.
Generally yes, that's the idea

>He instantly trusted Law but what if he had encountered one of the Supernovas or Shichibukai who had bad intentions and trusted them? Doflamingo could have easily pulled him over to his side if he'd met him before Law.
I doubt it because Luffy's an idiot but he's generally able to know who's good or bad if only by instinct alone

I can't take you seriously

>No, the government didn't want to stop Baroque Works or Crocodile
You make it sound like they actually knew what he was doing there and just let him continue. You think if they knew about Pluton they'd let him stay?

Btw, "a pirate the WG wants to stop", kind of applies to all of them not Shichibukai

Go back to your containment generals. This is for real discussion.

Says the shitposter

>people just realizing that luffy is a crybaby asshole

They fully enabled Crocodile and in fact the only part they would have had a problem with is Pluton, but they accept that sort of risk implicitly with the Shichibukai system. Doflamingo was openly doing even worse things than Crocodile and they were okay with those (before the timeskip).

The WG doesn't care about random fodder pirates like Krieg or Kuro. Especially not Krieg since in that arc he was attacking other pirates. It doesn't help your point regardless because pirates were almost never the villains in pre-timeskip OP but are regularly the villains in post-timeskip OP. The Straw Hats and the narrative as a whole switched sides, it's just a fact.

It’s about freeing the world you dense fuck. Did you even read the last chapter?

Doflamingo isn't just a regular Shichibukai you dumb fuck.

>Nobody in this manga has died except people in flashbacks
Pedro dying is Carrots flashback.

you know, this is why i wanted bellamy to join the crew since he has an extreme amount of respect for luffy, but isn't some completely useless weakling and understands what it means to be truly weak.

also, he could have some fun fights with his haki and df powers.

> He calls Vivi out for expecting their war to have no casualties

Wasn't that Luffy just being a retard and strawmanning her argument? She didn't expect nobody to die. She just wanted to do everything she could do minimize casualties as much as possible.

I don't think Bellamy works to well as a straight up strawhat. They already have Jimbei and having two previous captains of their own individual crews seems weird. He should absolutely join the grand fleet though.

the funny thing is luffy and zoro would have the exact same reaction if it were the strawhat or wado being left behind.

>They fully enabled Crocodile
Is that why he was hiding in the shadows and didn't tell anyone he was intentionally keeping it from raining?

>but they accept that sort of risk implicitly with the Shichibukai system
No they fucking don't. What other example would you have where that's even remotely the case?

>but are regularly the villains in post-timeskip OP
All of these "villains" are people Luffy was always going to clash with no matter what they were doing

I don't have any memory of this, as important and interesting as it sounds. 2006 was a long time ago tbqh.

Let's face it, Oda hadn't figured out the world yet when he wrote Crocodile but nothing implies they would have ever stepped in to stop Crocodile. It's not really clear what he did that was bad besides lock Smoker in a cage. Drum Island shows the pre-timeskip WG has no problem switching out one royal for another. Didn't Stelly also kill the previous king of Goa?

Bellamy would literally never ever work directly with Luffy

She straight up was trying to say "people won't have to die if we do x". If he was strawmanning, Vivi wouldn't admit he was right

Depends on what x was. You can prevent people from dying if you prevent war from breaking out altogether. I don't really remember desu, Alabasta was written in the late 80s iirc. It's been about 30 years since that story arc.

>nothing implies they would have ever stepped in to stop Crocodile
How about the fact that Smoker immediately gave up his chase of Luffy so he could go demolish Crocodile for him?

More like early 00's.

>It's not really clear what he did that was bad
Run a group of black market assassins? Instigate a conspiracy to cause civil unrest and murder civilians?

can we finally admit that sanji has been extremely flanderized post time skip?

can we finally admit that brooke, chopper, and franky have received zero development post timeskip?

can we finally admit that oda did an extremely poor job explaining haki? why the fuck wouldn't rayleigh at least explain advanced armament haki (a power he does have and showed off to luffy) to luffy while telling him about precognition (a power rayleigh doesn't have)?

All of that the WG was fine with. They weren't even black market assassins, they were bounty hunters you retard. As in, capturing or killing people the WG wanted dead.

>Oda is 100+ y. o.
I don't think so, lad.

>can we finally admit that sanji has been extremely flanderized post time skip?
Everybody thinks that. He was pretty good in WCI as a whole though

Chopper and Brook have more or less peaked where they are. I think Franky still has a role to play whenever they get to Vegapunk

>All of that the WG was fine with.
Proof.

add to this that the crew interaction has been shit post timeskip due to oda's focus on "world politics" and the crew being split up hundreds of chapters at a time.

I wonder what Gangster Gastino is up to

he went with them initially but he never heard directly the diagnosis for the ship

yeah, it became really bloated since the fishman arc, be it regarding the art and the casting. Dressrosa had a ridiculous amount of characters, and I really don't dig Oda retarded design anymore, it's getting more and more cartoony and quirky with each ennemies.
but fuck, I have all physical volume,my autism won't allow me to not finish the serie, it's going to end soon right? right?

We'll get his cover story after Bege.

You're on this ride for life

>watching the anime
I cannot imagine anyone starting from the beginning if they want to get into One Piece, the pacing is shit, it look bad most of the time and it has a ton of filler. I reckon that some people did a list of episode to watch that fit the manga pacing better
at least I'm sure that we will see One Piece ending before Berserk

Friendly reminder that if you're going to use Japanese words, no I'm not referring to actual loan words, I mean your stupid weeb words that you picked up from a children's cartoon, then you should at least spell them in Japanese.
なかま for example. "nakama" is not a word.

Piss off weeb

the WG is fine with it's own agent performing eco-terrorism and flase flag operations to throw a WG kingdom into civil war so national secrets can be stolen from it?

I mean they're probably bitter at Cobra's ancestor for snubbing them and they think he's a faggot. They'd jump at the chance of getting someone like Croc who's willing to play ball in power.

This makes me nostalgic for that PSA at the beginning of Kaizoku-Fansubs episodes that talk about their description to not translate the word 'nakama.' I'm sure that's made fun of now, as cynical as the anime community's become, but at the time (2006) I found it really poignant and fully bought in to what they were saying.

*decision to not translate

if the WG wanted to destabilize alabasta they would already have done so

plus having croc do it on his own initiative is sort of like your office employee waking you up at 2.30 by being inside your home vacuuming, even if you wanted your house vacuumed

Ah, back when the artstyle was full of SOUL

Now unironically laughing at a happy-go-lucky trigger happy autist who never faced any consequence for his countless impulsive actions, constant lookdowns at weaker people than him and stubborn mindset finally realizing his rash behavior and his headstrong approach against the marines had nasty consequences (One of them being his nakama being sprawled all across other lands and the other losing his "brother") is called an issue. user, I bingewatched One Piece in less than 6 months and every chapter i've found Luffy to be sort of an autistic prick who needs to know his place by force. That's why i felt delighted when Ace's death and Luffy going apeshit after realizing the consequences of his actions and behavior and admitting to himself that he isn't better than the weaklings he likes to call out after failing to protect his nakama happened. He needed that reality check.

>that speech he gave to usopp at EL
based sanji

>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA FUCK YOU ZORO ITS JUST A SWORD WHO CARES THE BEST SWORDSMITHS IN THE WORLD CANT FIX IT IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT JUST FUCK OFF

reminder that now, zoro wouldnt do jackshit if he heard about what sanji did

But isn't that the point? The crew slowly forms, you get to know them a bit, they fight some world renown individuals and gain a level of infamy, then everything hits the fan as they engage in events that were always there, just that before the MF it was some brats poking a few bears. And after EL they openly come out in defiance with people on their crew with massive world ramifications. Robin's backstory (and Franky's) cements what the series would ultimately be about. Post TS is just following that through, at the cost of smaller crew moments, because the endgame stakes are just completely nothing like what we thought it was back with say Croc (even though the seeds are fucking sown there)

Yea I'd like more personal moments with crew and (the ever escalating) allies, but then we'd be looking at 2000 chapters.

Because Sanji can actually defend himself against Zoro's bitch fit.

This. Sanji could just tell Zoek to go fuck himself and see how he would like it if hè was raised by a literal Supervillain family who abused him everyday.

just barely. its so obvious that strawhats pirates power level is
>luffy>zoro>sanji>robin (for some reason)>brooks=franky>usopp>chopper>nami
i know so many think zoro and sanji are comparable but silver and bronze is a big difference

Currently finished the las saga before timeskip and it was dissapointing except for the women Island wich was good. Does it ever get good as water 7 again?

And yet again you prove that you can't read or underastand any basic emotion. Did you miss the part about bringing Usopp to a professional shipwright to explain it clearly? It is like you have a best friend (something you can't understand but try to) injured and not trusting your others friend telling that he is gonna die because you want to believe he can still be saved. The best solution isn't for your friends to argue or threaten you because you aren't listening to them but bring a doctor to say that indeed your best friend is gonna die.
Do an autistic test, you are possibly on the spectrum for real.

He lives in his headcanon.

Why are you assuming they will stop adventuring (even alone) after Luffy becomes the pirate king?

Tell that to his new raid suit.

Usopp was trying to save his friend (nakama), the fact you don't understand this means you are edgy or branlet. Choose one. Of course he knew they had to abandon the ship but he didn't want to let go of Merry. At last, he did and became Sogeking because still, he couldn't accept it completely.

>gearth fourth into your ass
Try saying it again.

Fag, the marines are not WG. Even Akainu hates them and might help Luffy overthrow them in the future.

And how do you think he should've handled the ace arc? And don't abuse hindsight like an autist.

People are still reading this trash?

He didn't try to save his friend (nakama). He tried to ignore the problems. If he wanted to SAVE Merry he would've tried thinking of a way to preserve her. Like keeping Merry safe in the port town where she wouldn't be harmed and can be preserved, or if he wants to keep her spirit, reusing pieces of her to build a new boat. He's not holding on to the BOAT he's holding on to the past. And on the ocean where your life is on the line, that sort of sentimentality can end your life. I'm not saying I don't UNDERSTAND why Usopp is distraught. Merry means a lot to him, after all. It was a gift from his sweetheart back in Syrup Village. It holds not only his feelings of his home but his feelings of adventure, the feelings of being a pirate and his memories of all his friends. That doesn't mean he wasn't acting like a baby about the whole thing.

You're coming off as more autistic than Luffy, honestly.

Because heroes share their meat

>OP talks about something that happened over a decade ago in the manga
>still reading
Stop pretending that you ever read it

I disliked Luffy during the first episode. His "I really hate you!" to Coby made me think he was a dickhead.

He's pretty cool, though. He's become nicer compared to the early story arcs.

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Again, you can't understand people feelings and think that you are somehow superior by coming up with an impractical logical explanation to everything from and outside perspective aka
>t. edgy teen

This thrash is pretty fun to read. If you start to nitpick or overthink, you are gonna find flaws in everything but this story isn't meant to be overthought. It is for 13 years old kids that are just there for the adventure and the fun (maybe also boobs).

It's been well over a decade, actually. One Piece began in 1987 and Water 7/Enies Lobby ran from 1993 to 1996. Whenever Dragon Ball ended in 1995, a common reply to cheer up saddened fans was "Hey, at least One Piece is being really awesome right now." I remember; I was there.

I stopped reading it when the long nose dude shot a flag or something. It's basically nothing ever happens the manga. Oda clearly has no idea on how to end it. and the art is dogshit

And you don't have the ability to separate your feelings from emotions. I can understand how and why Usopp is distraught and still find it inappropriate. There's nothing the strawhats could do about the situation and yet he's lashing out at them over their decision. It's like if a doctor told you your friend was gonna die and you start fighting with the family for trying to plan the funeral. I GET that you're mad and frustrated but that doesn't make it right. And if you ask me if you did the write thing by yelling at them and challenging them to a fistfight I'll say "no."

>It's basically nothing ever happens the manga
Why does this mentality seem so pervasive. When people say "nothing ever happens" for stuff like Conan and Ippo where the story literally never moves, it's understandable but One Piece constantly has things happen.

I just assume people don't really read it and just wanna shitpost

Lots of people see long runtime without completion as "nothing happening." Anyone who announces they don't read something can be disregarded entirely.

Yeah, but he's right about the "Oda has no idea on how to end it" He's trying to milk it forever.

No, Usopp never saw the doctor. The first time a doctor told him that his friend was gone, he accepted it and became sogeking.
Nobody is mad here but you can't put into their perspective at all.

>Oda has no idea on how to end it
That's literally the single thing Oda does know for certain.

He even told a dying little boy what One Piece was a long time ago. I personally disagree with that choice; the boy might have just been faking it. Worst case scenario, he might have been planning to spoil the ending online after Oda told - whether for notoriety, or as a malicious troll, or whatever.

And yet, for some strange reason Usopp feels like the straw hats would get rid of Merry for any other reason other than "It literally won't work anymore" and instead of letting them explain the situation or listen to them he throws a shit fit, leaves the crew and challenges Luffy to a fight. The fact that he accepts it AFTER he gets a second opinion really shows how juvenile he was acting.

>He's trying to milk it forever.
I don't think that's Oda's decision anymore. One Piece is so big they have theme park attractions relevant to the current anime. Beyond that, the story has consistently been about taking steps upwards towards King of the Pirates. New World was about immediate alliances and toppling higher powers, and with Zou we have a concrete means of finding One Piece. By the end of WCI we had 2/4 pieces for finding it and we're in an area right now where part 3 can be found. Anyone who says he doesn't know how to end it hasn't been following the story and hasn't seen the clear development.

we'll se in 20 years who's right.

I kind of wish Oda wasn't rushing the series now. Wano feels like he realized he's going to die soon so he's trying to speed it up, but with the way it's paced I think I'd rather him take his time even if the series ends up unfinished in the end.

>Oda has no idea on how to end it
He's had the ending since chapter 1.

>He's trying to milk it forever.
I do think it is running longer than he ever thought but he manages to write One Piece in a way that it doesn't feel that way. There's so many callbacks, references and set ups that actually pay off later that it feels like everything was planned out even if it wasn't. That's what keeps people reading. I also do not think One Piece is a manga that can go on for like 40 years like Kochikame or something, it will have to end at some point. Part of an adventure is the end.

Another thing is that it's pretty clear that we are heading toward the endgame now even if it'll take another 8 years.

>Wano feels like he realized he's going to die soon so he's trying to speed it up
Lol, Wano is gonna be as long as Dressrosa (unfortunately), like are you kidding me? If he wanted to speed it up, he would have had all the Road Poneglyphs at WCI or something.

What are you talking about? He's a healthy and normal 44 year old, isn't he?

but he shared all the food he got in wano

See this reply
It is not a second opinion, man or kid. It is literally a professional that knew about ship's soul that told him it wasn't possible. I already wrote you or some other user the example. If your best friend is injured and your friends tell you he is gonna die because they seek the doctor, you are not going to believe them if you don't hear it directly from the doctor. You pretending to be rational from an outside perspective without really understanding what is going on is what makes you an edgy teen. It is like someone watching people trying to escape a disaster from a tv and constantly complaining that they don't do this or that.
Also he doesn't challenge Luffy for gigs. Luffy literally told him to get the fuck out of his crew if he wasn't willing to listen to him.

The kid probably killed himself after Oda told him it was a giant straw hat that turns into a spaceship.

If Luffy was so bad, why did he tell Sogeking to shoot down that flag?

He didn't know that was Usopp.

He's offscreening stuff that he normally wouldn't.

>once he actually sees the extent of Merry's damage
No, he knew all along. He expected it even before they went to the shipwrights.
As already said, the Merry was not the real point, it was just Usopp feeling useless and no longer wanting to be in the crew because he was afraid he'd drag them down.

He knew the ship had a soul and shouldn't be casually discarded, but for the most part it was just an excuse.
If anything it feels like he's stalling to set up the big final conflict with all these allied pirates and kingdoms.
People are getting tired of "save the royal family" arcs after the New World features 4/8 (and Punk Hazard/Zou are still heavily related to protecting the Kozuki family). That doesn't seem bad, but remember "Return to Saobody" and "Reverie" are like 5-6 chapters each.

I recommend you go read the manga again. He didn't change his mind even after Franky beat it into him and he literally admits he knew Luffy was right all along and that the drama wasn't about the ship but his pride. He doesn't even give up on Merry as Kaku sends into into the open sea. It is incredibly clear Usopp was never going to grow up or admit he was wrong, Oda wrote in Merry as a deus ex machina so Usopp never did have to admit he was wrong and because Luffy is such a weak captain in the end, he accepts Usopp back instantly.

Luffy was so in the wrong that everyone else in the crew stuck with him.

UFO in japanese is written as the will of D. Coincidences? I think not.

That is what literally changing his mind means. He admitted that he didn't do the correct thing at that moment. But I explained you everything.

What do you think of this one guy's thoughts on One Piece? Does he raise some good points?

>At some point I'm gonna have to resign myself to the fact that this completely inexplicable notion is never going anywhere ever, but seriously: One Piece and DB have almost NOTHING in common. Whatsoever. One's a martial arts fantasy series and a wonky pastiche on Chinese kung fu folklore (with sci fi elements eventually mixed in for seasoning), the other is a fucking nauseating and WAY overly long sappy Hallmark commercial consisting principally of characters circle-jerking one another over how awesome friendship is.
>Seriously, the Z Warriors and Straw Hats have just about NOTHING whatsoever in common as characters on almost ANY level. The former bond over beating one another senseless, the latter bond over continually reiterating to one another "I WUB WU SCHNOOKUMS, YOU'RE MY BESTEST BESTEST FRIEND IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD!!!" at just about any and every given opportunity until the audience is forced to wonder what kind of WAY overly strong anti-depressants Oda is on when he writes this shit.
>When it comes to sap, One Piece has no off switch and the dial is always permanently stuck on 11. Not an over-exaggeration by any stretch. I don't like to make this shit personal when it comes to just random creators I don't know who's work I just happen to not like... but going solely off his unbelievably crude and seemingly broken understanding of basic human emotional interactions continually displayed throughout his magnum opus here, the sheer amount of hugs that Oda apparently must've never received from his father growing up, the utter lack of childhood friends of any kind and the stunted development of social skills that go with it, and the amount of anti-depressants that he has to consume on a daily basis are things that I don't even want to fathom.

>I doubt they'll be any more time for stuff like this.
We had it during Whole Cake Island and figures like Blackbeard will definitely force it out of the Strawhats again, but it'll be new conflicts

It's officially three arcs: Water 7, Enies Lobby and Post-Enies Lobby.

>It is not a second opinion, man or kid. It is literally a professional that knew about ship's soul that told him it wasn't possible. I already wrote you or some other user the example. If your best friend is injured and your friends tell you he is gonna die because they seek the doctor, you are not going to believe them if you don't hear it directly from the doctor.
I mean. I would. Why the fuck would they lie or misguide me about that? I'd want to hear it from the doctor's mouth, SURE. But I wouldn't throw a shit fit and accuse my longtime friends of haphazardly throwing something that, at that point, had sentimental value to ALL of them. That's how a child would act.

Don't bully Usopp so much, he's a sweet guy who simply had a rough patch. We all hit rock bottom at least once in our life.

Usopp forgave him and the Franky Family got beat up already and then forgave the Strawhats

Luffy is a literal mental midget and isn't taken seriously by anyone with a brain because he doesn't deserve to be so.
Your own fault, OP

>He treated his best friend like dirt and nearly murdered him
not even true

The way Sanji is framed here while Cricket is talking about how ashamed he is of his family, in the same arc where Sanji reveals he's from the North Blue, is telling.

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Man-hating grown ass fishman, to be even more specific

>Luffy isn't consistent

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>Orange Town: gag character
Give the Thousand Star Clown Buggy the respect he deserves.

In hindsight, its not too surprising because Jaya arc seems like the point Oda had planned out everything that is gonna go down in this series. We are also introduced to the gorosei, the whole shanks-whitebeard-blackbeard plot, blackbeard pirates, bunch of subtle foreshadowing.

because of powerlevel faggots, we don't get the crew relaxing and having fun anymore and inversely, we don't get the crew having any tension or disagreements since every arc is sail to this place with maybe 1 chapter on the boat, fight, fight, fight, sail away to next island.

>can we finally admit that sanji has been extremely flanderized post time skip?
You're retarded if you think Enies Lobby Sanji and Whole Cake Island Sanji are any different

>can we finally admit that brooke, chopper, and franky have received zero development post timeskip?
Brook was the MVP of WCI and talked shit to Big Mom several times, Chopper has accepted being a monster if that can help Luffy, Franky bromanced with Senor Pink

>can we finally admit that oda did an extremely poor job explaining haki?
Nope, it's pretty simple if you're not a brainlet.
>why the fuck wouldn't rayleigh at least explain advanced armament haki
Because he was just teaching him the basics for a year and a half. And he wouldn't have learned those techniques anyway since he wasn't in real fights for those two years. Cracker, Katakuri and now Kaido are pushing him to the limit.

>Wano feels like he realized he's going to die soon so he's trying to speed it up
People were complaining that we were only in Udon for the past six chapters, get your head out of your ass.

zoro was a bigger piece of shit

Usopp was acting overly emotionally and in the wrong, but this thread confuses me with the idea that Luffy being captain somehow made him God-King of the ship. Usopps insubordination wasn't him disobeying orders in comba and outside of combat most pirate ships were run on a semi-democratic basis. Zoro is the guy that swore an oath of fealty, the other just agreed to come along on at at-will basis. Again, Usopp was being an over-emotional twat but Luffy and Zoro were assuming authority which had never been explicitly stated with the crew and making a unilateral decision that it wasn't necessarily in his power to make.

And just to add proof that Luffy's captaincy was vague look at Nami's handling of navigation by essentially ordering Luffy and co. around or the pre-drum kingdom episode/chapters where they look to Vivi of all people as to wether they should get a doctor for Nami or not.

Chose wisely

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>with the idea that Luffy being captain somehow made him God-King of the ship.
That's generally how being the captain works.

Not hard

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>Used goods + gold digger
>Damaged goods + cold-hearted narcissist
>Mind of a child

Am I allowed to pick none?

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Not really pirates usually operate under a democracy (historically speaking)

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What was out of line?
The Merry was unfixable and Luffy made the right call. Ussop can argue against it, but end of the day Luffy is captain even if he doesnt act like it and his word on the ship is law.
Zoro said best at the end of the arc, at times of trouble the crew needs to know Luffy can make the hard choices.

If they were marines sure (even then he would have responsibilities and limits on his authority but w/e) but as said most pirate ships were run democratically with the captain only having total command during combat situations.

>Usopp vs Van Augur

Probably the fight I'm looking forward to the most. Also, I'm still disappointed that Usopp didn't have a sniper battle with Vander Decken. Such wasted potential

Can't wait for the SH-Alliance to crush BBs crew

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We need a whole island of just SHs antics no deep plots or wars just fun stuff , like a reverse levely

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So Davy Back 2.0? I want Foxy back, even Wapol got to return.

t. brainlet

>pirates usually operate under a democracy (historically speaking)

So they chose the captain by vote?

Maybe the Vs Red hair pirates stuff is a David black fight
>Shanks loves fun and has no reason to fight Luffy
>No one will stir shit in his territory (Probably)
>That makes foxy not filler

>that pic

Usopp, Luffy, and Chopper are totally in character, while Sanji and Zoro are reversed.

And yes, Luffy is asexual, but it makes sense here since he often follows Usopp's pace when it comes to shenanigans.

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YES
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governance_in_18th-century_piracy

There was even a republic of pirates in the Bahamas called Nassau totally gonna happen in the series at some point btw

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Typically, but even then major decisions like where the ship was going, which shipping lanes to hunt, etc. were voted on as well. If the captain pissed off the crew then they would remove him from office (depending on how unanimous that decision was it might or might not be a 'mutiny'). I believe it was Black Bart that was a prisoner on a ship but got made Captain after he charmed the crew enough (could be wrong about the specifics there).

If anything, Usopp overreacted. The Going Merry was getting busted up and with the hull destroyed it would be beyond repair. The ship had to be replaced.

BUT NO! Usopp's girlfriend Kaya gave them that ship, so Usopp demanded that Luffy keep it. Luffy knew they couldn't just repair the damn ship but Usopp was being a little bitch. He was the one who challenged Luffy for ownership of the ship. And even after Luffy won, he gave Usopp the damn ship.

>Usopp probably would have kicked his ass if he hadn't been previously hurt, and would have become captain
Umm...no. You see, Usopp's plans for beating Luffy relied on overwhelming him with wave after wave of attack while keeping Luffy from attacking him...and then finally finishing Luffy off by using Luffy's own strength against him. The problem was this wasn't enough. Luffy was strong enough to take on one of the Seven Warlords, so it's only natural that Usopp would go down in two hits. (honestly I'm surprised he managed to survive one...Luffy must've been holding back some)

>consequences of his actions?
Ace being captured by Blackbeard, executed by marines, and Paramount War had would have happened regardless of his actions.
He learned hes not all powerful and needs to get stronger for the new world yes, but nothing he did caused ace to be killed.

>There was even a republic of pirates in the Bahamas called Nassau totally gonna happen in the series at some point btw

You're probably right, considering how Oda has shown he knows the history of piracy pretty well. Dang, I'm hyped now.

Luffy technically might have had to of given Luffy the ship as compensation. Hear me out:
1) Before the arc Nami states that pirate crews split all loot evenly among the crew
2)She then says that instead of this predefined agreement they should use 80% of the treasure to "repair the going merry" which Luffy and the rest of the crew agreed to.
3) The crew finds out that the ship is irreparable and decide to get a new ship with the remaining funds.
4) This is in violation of the previous agreement to use that 80% to "repair the merry" and thus the crew is trying to steal Usopp's share if he does not consent.
5) After the fight Luffy gives him the ship essentially as his "share" of the treasure.

I admit it is somewhat shaky but from a strict view all Luffy was doing was ensuring that there were no debts between Usopp and the Strawhats. But Luffy is a moron so this was obviously not his mortivation.

>If anything, Usopp overreacted

Right, that's what made that conflict so raw.

Usopp knew better than any of the SH's that Merry was on its last legs, even before getting scolded by Franky.

His argument was purely emotional, but keep in mind that he was already aware of the Klabautermann, so his attachment makes more sense than it might seem.

Luffy took the opposite approach, putting on a brave face as captain despite probably feeling the same emotions Usopp was wearing on his sleeve. Arguments like this are not uncommon, and Oda did a pretty good job playing it out through his characters. Plus it gave us one of the best fights in the series

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honestly the only other example i can think of is netero vs Mereum. The former says multiple times that he has to kill Mereum quickly before he's swayed by his arguments and loses the will to fight

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Merry was handled masterfully and you're fucking retarded for thinking that was a plothole. Ussop got ruined and both ussop and luffy didn't get any development? What the fuck am reading.

>We need a whole island of just SHs antics no deep plots or wars just fun stuff
We're too deep in the story for that. Also, there hasn't been an arc like that since Little Garden

Zou came relatively close to that. It was also one of the best arcs in the series.

Zou only came close to that because everything had happened already in flashback. Also that wasn't really SH antics.

>We're too deep in the story for that
We might get one after wano. Everything post time skip has been leading up towards the conflict to kaido and there isn't any pressing issues afterwards. This might be the elbaf arc or an arc focusing on following the log pose towards the final island/finding the last road glyph.

Wano has a lot of SH antics. I have been greatly enjoying the arc because of it.

probably the best conflict of all in one piece

So is post timeskip OP still bad or has there been anything good that's happened since?

It was never bad.

It's worse. Oda has lost his touch.

It's good but in a different way from pre-timeskip.

>Zou only came close to that because everything had happened already in flashback.

Does the reasoning behind its narrative structure really change anything? It's still one of the most breezy story arcs in the series, with no real fighting involved.

But Usopp was doing it because of his insecurities whereas Sanji believed that Big Mom would kill all of the other Strawhats and the Baratie staff if he refused.

Everything since Dressrosa ended has been good, or at least a step up from what was happening before

Same

There will never be a whole island of just SH antics because the New World is just too dangerous to have something like that (remember, only the baddest of the bad get to this point). That said, like the other user said, Wano is loaded with more antics than there have been in a while.

>discarding child mentality
glad to see at least one decent person here
>inb4 horse fetish

What exactly the fuck is wrong with horses you cocksucker?

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When we get to Elbaf and Shanks is chilling with Luffy

>Not wanting to date a child = horse fetish

Explain further