Lineage and bloodline doesnt mean anything, hard work and dedication are more important

Don't forget that he's literally the reincarnation of a demigod

underrated post

Lee was a better protagonist considering he actually had to work really hard for his shit

That should've been obvious when it was made apparent his father was the 4th Hokage

>So that's a pretty terrible example.
It's a bonus he didn't work for. It's like a kekkei genkai, an ability he simply possesses that nobody else has, so the analogy must apply.
>but Naruto (and Lee) had nothing
Again, that's wrong. From chapter 1 onwards, Naruto was special. And by the time he used the fox chakra for the first time the audience knew for sure that his special status had a positive impact on his powers. Just because Kishimoto never spelled it out for you doesn't mean that it wasn't there. You can be special yet still be a hard worker who never gives up. The latter being his most important character trait. Honestly, if by the time he beats Neji you still think the shows theme is "hard work over lineage", despite him winning the fight because of the power given to him at birth, you're literally too retarded to understand battle shounen.

why doesn't naruto train to open the inner gates with his shadow clown hax training. seems to be pretty op lol
why didn't Guy just use a shadow clone to open the last gate lol

>a bonus he didnt work for
>same thing as a lineage of powerful shinobi
>goalposts.jpg

This is like saying trailer trash dropout being dropped into college can compete with ivy league trust fund students on equal footing. The whole idea is that Naruto had no talent and was considered a loser; all the other lineage shinobi were raised as such.

Using the kyuubi chakra at any point before Jiraiya showed up to fix the seal was considered dangerous, and naruto could only control it up to a certain point. Again, he trained to fight and that other thing you neglected to mention from my first post, determination kicked in. Naruto did not have a "bloodline" kyuubi, and it was still considered volatile to use at that point. It was that he was willing to use it that determined his victory against Neji.

You can try to pretend it was always about bloodline or whatever, but it clearly wasnt. I dont know why you think the Kyuubi is supposed to be Narutos bloodline/ special ability when its considered a curse by everyone else up to a certain point in the manga, and being jinchuriki was considered a bad thing.

And insulting me only proves that you have nothing else, so it's time to attack the messenger.
Pretty sad imo, when I'm just trying to discuss anime.

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Madara did nothing wrong

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nobodies in the grand scheme of things
which is a shame because rock lee would have made for a much more compelling and endearing protagonist

>4 replies in and they already show up with unrelated shit
never change narusaku niggers

Stop speedreading. Hard work and dedication to get strong was Lee's arc, it was never a part of Naruto's arc. His arc was to be accepted by people around him
>lol just kidding, he's literally the decendant of two hokages, and a prodigy
That's literally doesn't matter because he didn't inherit any powers from his lineage. Rikudou says that when they met

This, why the fuck does Naruto act like he's been treated like dirt, Rock Lee and guy lee have been treated worse because they don't have chakra. But they managed to overcome their weaknesses by mastering taijutsu. Rock lee would have made a great protagonist.

two weakling side characters

Why do people continuously repeat this meme? It's literally shoved in your face constantly at the start of the series that Naruto is starting out as a nobody aside from the kyuubi, with the kyuubi being painted as a curse in most regards, and an unstable, calamity risk of a boon at best.

Why do faggots still keep drawing good porn of this show, the women aren't even good looking or designed well.

Especially porn with this giant turd.

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There isn't any porn of Madara fucking me and I am very upset

Naruto has been treated like dirt, PLUS shunned by the entire village. Hes treated like a burden more than anything else. At least Gai and Lee are acknowledged at all by people in general. They were simply underestimated because their lack of ninjutsu.

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Doesn't the kyubbi only run in the umizaki clan?

Theres no rule, it just happened that it was passed from one Uzumaki to another. And it wasnt a direct parent > child passing either, again just happened that way with Naruto and his mom.

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I want to sleep in Madara's six paths robe. The fabric looks so soft. I know it's made of chakra, so I hope it doesn't disappear when I take it off of him.

A cursed power is still a power. He lacked finesse (failed bunshin no jutsu) but had raw magnitude of chakra (easily masters tajuu kage bunshin no jutsu).

You both lay down to go to sleep, but he doesn't want to disappoint you and let it disappear, so he keeps one eye just slightly open, concentrating, watching you fall asleep. He can't help but think how cute you are when you're asleep desu

It's been said multiple times in the manga that the reason why naruto was so proficient at jutsu and shitting out chakra was because of the bottomless pit of raw chakra that is the 9 tailed beast. This made it possible for naruto to keep working out without ever getting tired.
This is a bait and kuso thread.

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Naruto is a force of supernatural evil and the Raikage is Satan. It gets porn because the show called Naruto makes it a easy mark for incels to self insert as fucking hinata or tsunade.

>a prodigy
No Naruto just has a very large amount of chakra but hes complete garbage at ninjutsu(but but the rasengan! Fuck off), taijutsu and genjutsu thats why Sasuke who had a smaller amount of chakra still made a better ninja than him.

M-my goodness. That's so adorable. You made me tear up a bit... be still my beating heart. I'm going to imagine Madara watching over my sleep with his third eye... I'll feel so safe.

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A power that also was stated to have made it so difficult for him to learn things in the first place, and that most of the upper ranks didn't just worry about getting unleashed and causing mass devastation as he tapped into it, but expected. Kishimoto may have gone away from that to adorable internal foxchan that means no harm and gives bountiful magic energy forms, but let's not pretend it was that way at the start.

Sasuke is sakura tier in taijutsu skill without the sharingan to show him how to dodge.

This.

>Sasuke is sakura tier in taijutsu skill without sharingan
Nope he was good at taijutsu prior to sharingan its just Lee is a genius when it comes to it so Sasuke looks bad compared to him.

That literally wasn't the point of the series in any time lmao.
If it was the point then Rock Lee should have won against Garaa but he didn't.
The point was just because you aren't born special that doesn't mean you won't be able to accomplish great things.
Might guy is the biggest example of this in the series.

Because he was treated like shit.
There are people from his village who literally wanted to kill him.
Lee atleast wasn't an orphan and was able to find a good teacher who cared for him since he was a little child. Even if he didn't become a ninja he would still be able to live a Normal life.
Naruto can't do this,he can't live a normal life because of the demon inside him. He had to become a ninja and he took alot responsibilites upon himself just to make his people acknowledge him.

two hokage? isn't he just related to another but not a descendant?

OK those are some dope pics.
Good points too.

I think hashirama is his great grandfather in some sense but it really doesn't matter.
His father being a hokage was never usefull to him and didn't affect his life in a positive or negative way.

he got enormous chakra reserves cuz of his mommy/uzamaki bloodline, and yea he's got prodigy genes from daddy

Eh
It's pretty funny considering the theme, but it's something that comes with the territory of shonen series, so honestly, I'm not surprised that this happened.

Can anyone name a battle shonen series where the main character isn't revealed to be the Super Specialest of an elite group, just because?

Shit, even YYH hit us with the Demon Yusuke bullshit.

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>prodigy
How is Naruto a prodigy? Lets recap Shippuden Naruto in Base can:
Use rasengan
Use kage bunshin
No genjutsu
Very awful at taijutsu
Fuinjutsu profiency is nonexistent
Average are weapon throwing

Yet hes a prodigy supposedly.

>made it so difficult for him to learn things
No, only time he had trouble is when Orochimaru put an odd seal on top of his even seal during the forest of death. After that Jiraiya released it and he could walk on water immediately.

Today's Moon is still at 100% illumination. Very visible. In all its glory. Look up at let's go, okay?

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inherited his willpower from his dad or some dumb shit. and yea he mastered those "advanced" techniques because of his talent.

Naruto didnt master rasengan until he became an adult, the guy is so shit at chakra control he needed a shadow clone to do it when Kakashi who has much much less chakra than him could one hand it.

naruto was able to learn rasengan as a kid and shadow clone jutsu as a kid because he's a prodigy. sucks but that's how it is. he has some magical ability to just learn what he needs to when he needs to apparently.

Its states hes a descendant of Senju, as Sasuke is the descendant of Uchiha. It's when they're talking to the sage of six paths I believe. Either way, the First is big daddy Senju, so Naruto is basically a descendant.

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There was no defined idea that this was about people without natural ability and talent overcoming everything with purely hard work.

He fucking learns a forbidden jutsu in the first episode.

Also the idea that he's special was spelled out from the beginning with the opening showing he had a fucking demon inside him.

You can't expect a guy to have a demon inside him and just beat people up purely on hard work without any help or advantages outside his own merit.

>naruto was able to learn rasengan as a kid and shadow clone jutsu as a kid because he's a prodigy
No because of plot, kage bunshin aint shit it just rapes your chakra supply and hes got alot of it so he can spam it I mean its literally one fucking handseal. Rasengan's difficulty makes me wonder if Kishi fell on his head because the top tiers of this world do shit that make rasengan look like play do and in less time than in HURR DURR IT TOOK 3 YEARS TO create a mini maelstorm in the spare of a sphere in the palm of your hand. You wanna know what would have been a better technique? Releasing that maelstorm devastating the area around you instead of that retarded ball hand strike Kishi added to create a contrast to Chidori which is another stupid technique if people can shape the fucking chakra.

Yes, after being neglected and called a loser because he had never shown any drive or talent. Literally hes the underdog, which as has already been stated, pretty much a staple of shonen storytelling. The only point being made in OP, is that it was implied by several other Shinobi being part of an OP lineage overshadowed the other kids, which Naruto was able to overcome with sheer will....

...until it turned out he was part of a powerful lineage, thus throwing the previously laid theme out the window. Rather than Naruto being strong simply because his "will of fire", turns out "lol hes Senju, one of the two most powerful tribes in existence."

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In the very first chapter he does a Jonin level Jutsu easily. Everybody always uses the fight against Neji to talk about how the series was about hard work beating talent but Naruto never even brought up hard work, what he did say and nobody mentions it was "You ain't the only one who's special"

A forbidden jutsu is not forbidden because its hard to learn, its forbidden because its harmful to your body, dividing your chakra equally into multiple shadow clones is very dangerous for a normal ninja hence it is forbidden but since naruto has a large pool of chakra he can spam shadow clones.

Kakashi isn't aware of the Orochimaru's extra seal or what it's doing at this time. He's strictly saying that the Kyuubi must have made it difficult for Naruto to deal with chakra since the beginning, either because of the sheer volume or the foreign presence constantly affecting his chakra. Orochimaru's seal exacerbated the problem beyond what Naruto was capable of dealing with, but there's always been a detrimental effect.

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>kage bunshin aint shit
it is. it's harder than that substitution jutsu shit which naruto struggled with. he could learn shadow clone because while he fucks up a lot of things he just as some weird hidden ability to learn advanced techniques when he needs them. like you said, plot. but it's made possible by le epic heritage, same with the sage mode.

>Naruto is starting out as a nobody
He was absolute not a nobody. Everyone knew him. The problem was he was hated by the whole village.

woah so naruto really was a prodigy but just hampered by some stuff in the beginning which he later turned into an ultimate weapon

Naruto doesnt know Substitution because it kills tension
>OMG HIS ATTACK IS GONNA HIT ME PSYCH JUST GONNA REPLACE MY BODY WITH A LOG FROM NOWHERE WHILE IM TELEPORTED A DISTANCE AWAY

Go back and watch the Neji fight. It’s almost insulting how hypocritical naruto is in it

I've reread it a couple of days ago and Naruto spends the entire time just saying "Who do you think you are telling other people can or cannot do?", don't think he mentioned hard work once

>Kakashi isn’t aware
Exactly. He doesn’t have all the info so he speculates. Jiraiya reveals the truth.

gateway.txt

He strongest source of power was kurama.
He was able to control kurama not because he's an uzumaki or a senju or his dad being a hokage.
So in the end Naruto will, hard work and personality was able to make one of the strongest and most frightening demons in the series his fucking pet.

>would have died trying to damage Madara and failing to kill him until Naruto came along with his superior chakra reserves and Sage power he was given by someone else.
Might Guy and Rock Lee just reaffirm the actual statement by showing us that you can be the strongest normalfag in existence but someone with better genetics than you is going to tank your reality-warping kick, regenerate through it and you're going to need someone who is also genetically gifted to save you.

"Gee Naruto, I know I've been with you for your entire ninja career, explicitly seen your limitations with chakra, and trained you in how to control it, but you've gotten especially bad at chakra control in this last day and I'm pretty sure it's because of the kyuubi you've had this whole time."
My dude what are you even

Naruto main counter argument wasn't that hard work can beat talent, It was about changing your destiny and choosing your own way.
Neji was wrong because he said people can't change and destiny decides everything.

neji was actually right because the illusion of having choice is itself part of your destiny. naruto didn't choose his destiny. it was always his destiny to be the hokage. kishimoto got it all wrong smdh.

>this meme again
Fuck off. Naruto was never about that

>choosing your own way
>Naruto is the reincarnation of Ashura and his destiny is to clash with the current Indra reincarnation as Hashirama and Madara did before him and the pair before them ad infinitum.
You can't even say Naruto went against the destiny by succeeding either because Ashura was trying every single time to get Indra to stop being a fucking edgelord.
Also you forgot the entire "Child of Prophecy" thing, Naruto is literally destined to be great.
In summary: Neji was right, Naruto is a fucking liar.

He has never seen Naruto fail at chakra control. Naruto and Sasuke took the same amount of time to master tree climbing, which is the only chakra control he teaches.

He saw Sasuke naturally start off higher than Naruto, and Naruto make virtually no progress until getting advice from Sakura. He knows Naruto's history in the academy with basic jutsu. He's clearly making a statement about Naruto since the beginning, not just the passed hour or so that he's seen him. Don't be obtuse.

It is better than being strong out of nowhere.
Also talent is nothing if there are no effort anyway.

It's kinda funny how he apparently failed the basic clone jutsu for over three years but when he actually puts effort into it, he can learn Shadow Clones in such a short amount of time

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But Naruto the only one to break the cycle and end the fight forever.
No point in the story was destiny something that was denied but neji said it was something you can't change but he himself fought to change his destiny.
Neji called his destiny the destiny of hatred because him being from the cadet branch meant he was supposed to be used by the main branch therefore hating it.
That's the destiny that neji was forced to obey but he didn't because in the end he choosed by his own will like his dad to protect hinata not because he's forced to as a result of being from the cadet branch but because he loved her and by saving her he actually didn't do shit to the hyuga Clan because hintat was no longer the designated heir of the main branch, hanabi was so hinata wasn't important to the clan any more.
Neji himself who you call right proved himself wrong.

>By the time they fight Haku and Naruto unleashes his fox chakra you should have known that lineage is everything
Back then we didn't know the 4th Hokage was Naruto's father, also the Kyuubi wasn't really connected to Naruto's lineage, it was seen as a negative thing he had to surpress or control, which is a typical thing in shounen. The theme of "Naruto has to become a better ninja" was very much a thing in the early days

Then later we realize his dad was the Hokage and his mom was from a super lineage that has super chakra and that Naruto's a fucking reincarnation of a god and it's like come the fuck on.

Come on user, it was fucking obvious Minato was his dad.

The nigger is fucking ruining Hinata,Hinata is the only girl I fap to in Nardo and now I have to use filters to find her porn. Why the fuck is she a popular pairing with the nigger anyways?

There's a landmine of contrivances just to justify rank and file chuunin knowing that Naruto has the kyuubi sealed in him, while also somehow not being able to comprehend why that's necessary and how he can still be a normal person, despite them also having some level of a working knowledge on the theory behind sealing and a gag order that should have kept it between the higher ups. Naruto having blond hair doesn't stop him being Minato's son from doubling and tripling down on those contrivances in some awful ways.

cucking is incredibly popular, particularly interracial cucking.

Naruto to Neji in exams- "you are not the only one special here,I'm more special than you are"

The point was that Naruto was defending Hinata's ideals that coincided with his own. It wasn't about hard work vs talent,It was about if Destiny is predetermined or not,if people can change or not. Hinata changed thanks to Naruto on her confidence issues. Neji was wrong by the fact he called Hinata that she can't change. Neji was a hypocrite because he called other people can't change yet constantly trained so fucking hard to change his own fate.

t. tobirama

He was marked as special from chapter 1 onward. In the first 5 pages we see the fucking leader of the village being informed about his actions. Do you think if a random kid in any city paints graffiti on a monument the major of that town is told about it? Do you think random kids around the world gets to act out by committing minor vandalism repeatedly without being thrown out of school?

Then we see him breaking into the office of the Hokage and steal city property. He doesn't get punished for that, in fact by the end he is rewarded. Then on page 29 it's explicitly said that for the entire village there is a special rule only concerning him.

And then finally how does the chapter end? By the first "asspull" of the series with him channeling the power of the 9tails to use a technique better than anyone else we ever see use the same technique for the rest of the series after he has been unable to do it for half a day.

Yes, everyone's aware that he's a walking demon bomb that can power invoke, with an exposition only risk. That doesn't make the beginning being everyone hating him and being completely alone not a farce with "you're of the utmost pedigree and never should have had anything to worry about, and everyone who ever called you worthless is a moron"

Naruto literally, LITERALLY inherited no power from his lineage.
Read slower before shitposting, thanks.

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Pocky!

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But it sets up that he is special. You think anyone is retarded enough to put a nuke in a random child? First page tells us that the 4th Hokage sealed away the 9 tails fox. By the midpoint we are told that it was sealed inside him.

From that are we supposed to think the 4th Hokage popped into the local orphanage, picked a random baby and put a nuke inside it? And after that, are we supposed to believe everyone else would just let that orphan run free with a nuke inside of them instead of keeping him under constant surveillance?

The only way to think that Naruto wasn't special before the 9tails was put in him is if you believe everyone in charge at the village is a complete idiot.

>everyone in charge at the village is a complete idiot
I mean...

Not sure if user thinks he has a point or not.

WHY DOES MY SHONEN MC HAVE PLOT ARMOR REEEEEEE

What happens to the 9 tails after Naruto dies?

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>But it sets up that he is special
Great, but that's not the point. And you do put the demon in a random child if it's one of those rare times when your wife hasn't just given birth and you're going to make everyone pretend he's neither related to anyone and doesn't have the demon in him to begin with.

It dies but reincarnates later.

Sadara will take over

It reforms over time.

>son of hokage
>born with the ability to make 1000 clones
>has the most powerful chinjerky sealed inside of him that he can activate anytime his plot armor is threatened

The only "hidden potential" meme more cringy than this is when they gave Deku the most powerful quirk in the entire show on episode 2

Will it be aware of it's time with Naruto or will it go back to rampaging?

No one knows as one has even killed the bijuu.

>lineage and bloodline doesnt mean anything, hard work and dedication are more important

How is this not about being special? The fox gets put into Naruto the day he was born, the only thing that could make something think he would be special would either be a prophecy or lineage then.

And no, you don't just put the demon in a random child. Minato had other options but he chose to put it in Naruto, in fact Naruto being born was how it was released in the first place.

But let's pretend it was a random child it was put in, do you let that random child run free without keeping constant watch over him?

Only half of the nine tails is sealed in naruto

A guy who never won a fight and a guy robbed of a righteosly earned victory against the main antagonist

But wasn't Neji's destiny to die protecting the main branch and he did? Plus didn't he say that hard work alone wouldn't make him the hokage?

Because the OP says something specific and you're trying to refute it with something entirely different?
And finding out hundreds of chapters in that Naruto being born was part of the reason that it got released doesn't suddenly make it obvious at the start.
It didn't change anything that it was put into Minato's kid or not. They still shat on him, kept an eye on him at a distance, let him become a child soldier and mostly raise himself. At the start of the series, Minato having a kid that day is a lot more contrived than Naruto being a random orphan.

Transferred out into the world or into a new host before Naruto croaks.

On that note, fuck Boruto, I'd gove my left nut for the adventures of Old Man Naruto (around 55-60 years old) in the twilight age of ninja. A world that takes the tech advancement plot device Boruto's using now to new levels and really expands on it.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding my points or are we just talking completely past each other? My first post was a reply to OP who implied that Naruto started as being about hard work and determination but it was changed to be about lineage and that's just wrong. I then pointed out a few of the many things in the first chapter that tells us that Naruto is special. In my second post I talk more about information we learn throughout the series that tells us WHY he is special.

The reason I bring up information we learn later on is because it's an example of it us learning more about why things happened, instead of as OP implied that they are contradictory.

When did they keep an eye on him? When he was vandalizing the Hokage stone faces? Nope. When he broke into the Hokages office and stole the scroll? Nope. Also I guess I need to point something else out, the majority of the village didn't know he was the son of the 4th Hokage, all they knew was that he had the 9 tails fox inside him.

Your points are just irrelevant. Straight up, he didn't have to be Minato's son to have the kyuubi. At the very beginning, there's no reason to even believe Minato had a newborn son at the time. The only reason people shouldn't know Naruto is Minato's son is explicitly to also hide that he has the kyuubi, the actual secret that mattered, but it's the thing that actually got gag ordered for the sake of drama. The kyuubi at the start didn't stop hard work from mattering, it gave him occasional plot padding.

Oh for fucks sake, can you just stop trying to change the arguments I'm making? When did I ever say the first chapter meant he had to be Minato's son? Or that it's not a problem that so many people in the village knows Naruto is a walking nuke? Or that hard work didn't matter?

OP was claiming that hard work and dedication mattered MORE at the start of Naruto when that simply isn't the case in chapter 1. My only fucking point was that chapter 1 clearly set's up Naruto as being special. It doesn't focus on him working hard or being dedicated.

>also the Kyuubi wasn't really connected to Naruto's lineage
It's still connected to his genetics and the same as a kekkei genkai. This hairsplitting semantics bullshit only makes you people look more retarded.

Hajime No Ippo
History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi

>chapter 1 of Naruto
>performs Hokage like feat by summoning hundreds of shadow clones, something nobody has ever done before or since, Jounin level jutsu to even summon a single one, he fills an entire forest after reading the scroll for 3 seconds

>Haku fight
>fox chakra allows him to heal and fight a highly superior opponent who's more experience and has a hacker kekkei genkai

>Forest of death
>gets called interesting by Orochimaru and utilizes his fox powers to beat a train sized snake to a pulp

>Bunta training
>uses his Kyuubi chakra to summon Bunta, was unable to do it without and Jiraiya specifically throws him down a cliff to force him to utilize it

>fight against Neji
>wins against prodigy because of Kyuubi chakra that allows him to bypass kekkei genkai hacker abilities like they are nothing, despite them being THE STRONGEST IN THE LEAF

>Bro, but at the start of Naruto, the series was about hardwork, Kyuubi was never treated like a kekkei genkai or a special ability itself and it had a drawback haha.

You people are genuinely fucking retarded. Maybe pay attention to the drawings next time, instead of relying on nothing but the dialogue. Manga are comics for a reason. The author shouldn't need to spoonfeed you every single conclusion or detail.

>fox chakra
Stopped right there Kurama is not Naruto's genetic power you dumbshit.

I'm stating the logic of the OP's argument, not your argument, because you're arguing past it this whole time in the first place. You saying he's "special" doesn't matter. Very early Naruto was clearly making a point with lineage at the start, then it backtracked.That's the goddamn point of the OP, and constantly saying he's "special" doesn't change that.
I get that you're hung up on the "hard work" part and want to make this a big thing that Naruto never had to depend on effort, but the OP is specifically talking about the point of the pedigree here, and it isn't like they kyuubi wasn't supposed to come with flaws. So to make this really simple, you can't argue against the contradiction of the sudden embrace of a secret lineage with "he had demon sealed inside of him." It's a bloody non-sequitur no matter how much he got out of it.

>Sasuke is sakura tier in taijutsu
Then how come he was the only one able to fondle Kakashi's balls?

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Here's the thing, from getting the scroll to Haku, various ninja way more experienced with Naruto literally expect the kyuubi to break out at the mere provocation of Naruto using certain techniques. Naruto releases a bit of Kyuubi chakra? Kakashi thinks the seal has completely come undone.

Come Sasuke's arc? It's a prototype chakra mech that Naruto's basically using in a stable way, without even losing his mind. Come the end of the series, the kyuubi itself is a plushy selling mascot that just wanted to be friends and has absolutely no risk, and it was the humans that were bad. Don't pretend there wasn't incredible story degradation along the way to transition from one stage to the next. There was supposed to be some legitimate risk to even partially releasing kyuubi chakra at the start, and he glossed over it for power level wank

OTK Naruto had no control though, in early Shippuden he bijuued out trying to access Kurama's power without Kurama being buddy buddy with him.

Pretty sure he got whole nine tails in the war

What logic in OP's argument? Linage is shown to matter in chapter 2. Hell, Sasuke is practically defined by his linage the entire series. The reason we aren't shown Naruto's linage at the start isn't because it doesn't matter, it's to leave it a mystery for the audience to engage with. WHICH THEY DID.

I can only think of 2 characters whose linage isn't a major part of who they are. Sakura and Lee.

When in the series were linage not integral to the characters? And I never said Naruto didn't have to depend on effort, for all of the series Naruto is clearly shown to be trying his best and putting in all of his effort. But his success and victories aren't defined by his hard work or effort. Name a fight that he wins by having worked harder or put in more effort.

His linage being revealed isn't contradictory, it's explanatory for WHY he ended up in the situation he is in chapter 1 and also HOW he changed it.

>Sasuke is practically defined by his linage the entire series.
This is called a foil. It's a device where you contrast one character, in this case Naruto, to another, Sasuke. Did you not realize this happens a lot?
>Name a fight that he wins by hard his hard work or effort
Question is, are you going to say it doesn't count if he used the Kyuubi at all? Or that no fight counts, because the kyuubi naturally gives him more chakra, even if it also made it difficult for him to control chakra? Because while most of the time I'm willing to argue that Kishimoto's sense of hard work is a joke, he's clearly trying to give some serious merit to it having Naruto literally dig his way, fingernails bleeding, to punch Neji, even if he needed the kyuubi to do it. But without even tapping into the kyuubi? Straight up not being intimidated by Kakashi getting trapped by Zabuza, and despite being completely outclassed still going balls deep into a plan knowing whatever he came up with had to contend with getting defeated several times over. Or against Kabuto, failing to produce a summon, failing to produce the rasengan twice in the fight alone, being told several times by several different people he shouldn't even be there and to leave it to them, only to keep trying to think up an even slightly plausible way to pull it off. I think there's a basis there for it, and no need to lean on lineage as a crutch.

So, like real life, and like real life you're salty along with your shitty character Lee.

All those examples are fights where he wins through his ingenuity and decisiveness.

>shonen is real life
holy shit

Continuing through countless failures, being told you can't, while training constantly, still not being productive when needed, and enduring past the point of complete embarrassment to tap into that ingenuity isn't hard work?

That's not the definition of hard work I would use. But more to the point, do we not see other characters do those things too? What makes Naruto succeed that others don't have?

Lee is a much better example of what you just described than Naruto is.

Because Lee has less, Naruto being hard working is invalid? I'm willing to say Kishimoto's concept of hard work and the respective payout (Kage Bunshin in a single night) is meme worthy, but every time something was put in front of Naruto from KB and tree climbing to summoning and the rasengan, Jiraiya and co specifically state that he tries nonstop until exhaustion. It doesn't suddenly strip Naruto of the fact that he tries, or the level of work he put in. And we get implications on how hard most people train, and you would assume most of them train constantly with their lives on the line, but we're not showed much of anything and in the case of Kakashi, we're shown that he at least believes he's slacking. Sasuke obviously thinks the same of Sakura for good reason, and Asuma says as much of his team. But the bigger point is how much Naruto fight through failure, not just how much time he puts into self improvement. The typical background narrative we get is that at least until they need to actively be productive, most of the others don't have to try nearly as hard to simply be passable

How do you "people" still misunderstand Naruto's main theme to this day?

>Back then we didn't know the 4th Hokage was Naruto's father
Only a literal brainlet couldn't have figured that out from the first chapter/episode.

In the very beginning he learned a S-Rank jutsu with no assistance in a single evening.

No but it mean's the story isn't about hard work and dedication. I'm done after this reply because it seems even though I've said it several times you still don't get it. Naruto working hard does not make the hard work what the story is about or the thing that makes him succeed. That's why the first line in OPs post is wrong, hard work and dedication was not more important ever in the story.

I never once said he doesn't work hard. I've never said he doesn't try his very best.

It's a requirement for success but it's not, and has never been, the deciding factor in Naruto's fights, nor the story overall. If it was then Lee would be the protagonist of the story.

>Why the fuck is she a popular pairing with the nigger anyways?
It's literally one guy paying for the artwork from various artists.

But it is a power from his LINEAGE, passed down from both his powers in this case.

What happened to all the tailed beast after Naruto beat Sasuke?

They fucked off to wherever they originally lived before they were put inside jinchuuriki.

he is like a japanese Ghost Rider

Naruto befriended Zarathos(?) a la Little Prince. (geddit? a fox)

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>it just happened
No. The uzumaki have high amounts of chakra and great sealing techniques. It's the best option Konoha had for containment

Dude, Naruto was able to use a technique from a super dangerous scroll that was bullshit powerful in the first ep.

He was never a loser. Just hated.
Also he never actually trained hard or asked for help to learn from anyone.
Espescially the third.

user, the most powerful and destructive ninja in all of the leaf kept a close eye on him.
Fucking ramen man was apparently known as one of the most deadly and horrifyingly brutal Anbu to ever exist.
The sand have a legend about red sand being dangerous because of him.

>Fucking ramen man was apparently known as one of the most deadly and horrifyingly brutal Anbu to ever exist.
huh

Teuchi was the mastermind. Soon the name Ichiraku shall be known throughout the universe.

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Hard work > talent was never the point. Rock Lee got fucked.
Naruto being the child of prophecy/Ashura meant that he was destined to change the world, but that didn't mean he was destined to change it for the better.
That was the whole point of hugging edgy Naruto at the waterfall. Accepting the negative side of yourself/reality and choosing to create a positive future rather than letting it destroy you like Obito did.

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would it have been better if maito guy ended the war with 8th gate?

It does when people literally point it out and make a big deal of it in universe. It may not be a well represented theme in actual execution at times, but plenty of exposition went into at least showing it was author intent. Your personal feelings on whether it went far enough or not don't really matter.

It would've been incredible if he killed Madara in a blaze of glory and Naruto and Sasuke were just standing there with their six paths power ups and their dicks in their hands.

Well being on the villages shit list all his childhood didn't help his development.

Neji was right

>everyone in charge at the village is a complete idiot.
Pretty much all these villages had wars over these monsters some even kidnapped people for them and then you have the leaf which got the strongest one in a young child who they could raise into the perfect soldier ready to defend the village or even attack threats and if he learns to control said monster makes him even more valuable but instead they treat that kid like shit all his life they are lucky he didn't grow into a mass murder cause if him and Kurama felt the Leaf needed to become a parking lot they done it already.

It would have been trash because it would mean that the villages could spend almost all of their resources in training Taijutsu specialists capable of the 8 gates instead of all the other bullshit they train for. Might Guy being comparable in power to a 10 tails jinchuriki Madara was cool, but a horrible decision in retrospect that amounts to no significant end result for the story other than introducing a huge logical flaw.

They can't do that because not everyone can open the eight gates, it's implied to be the stuff of legends. Even Madara who knows about the red vapor says he's never actually seen it. Plus even if hypothetically you can train anyone into mastering the eight gates, it's guaranteed suicide.

Saskue has always been a better hand to hand fighter than naruto pre- sharingan.

Why in the absolute fuck would you spend dozens of years training a bunch of fuckers to maybe, if you're lucky, get one or two suicide bombers?

It's a brutal truth pill, kill yourself if you're a talentless hack. Genetics predetermine everything, nothing disgusts me more than unsuccesful and ugly people.

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>descendant of 2 hokages
??? He's only the descendant of one.

Sasuke certainly has skill over Naruto, but Naruto's brawling is pretty good.

Good thing you're not a writer, retard.

Uh... Red Sand was Sasori's nickname.

>lineage and bloodline doesnt mean anything, hard work and dedication are more important
Was that EVER actually the theme?
Also, TWO Hokages?
Objectively false
>harmful to your body
Technically, that's just one reason a jutsu could be forbidden. Others include techniques that fuck with the laws of nature, like bringing dead people back to life, or for causing too much collatoral damage to not kill a bunch of civilians, like that spinal nuke from the anime.

Madara maybe did one thing wrong. And that is not watching his back.

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direct descendant of minato, and (stretching it) is related to hashirama because of chakra from the otsutsuki squabble between indra and ashura and shit like that

>left the village at age 15
>meaning by the time he was a teenager he already had the nickname "of the red sand" for all the enemy blood he spilled on the battlefield
He was pretty cool.

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See

her family has appeared in filler and a moive

Yeah, he killed a lot of people in the desert during the 3rd war.

Based.

What's with eyes being so powerful? Why couldn't it have been the shape of your nose or the color of your hair? Just an excuse to draw cool patterned eyes for all the cover portrait shots?

And he preserved his body as a cute boy. True art is eternal.

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Eyes are the window to the soul

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He's not really related to Hashirama, Uzumaki were a related clan to Senju but distant enough that Hashirama could marry Mito.

Can't wait to destroy his boy pussy

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I still think that Kishimoto originally planned to end everything sooner after the Pain arc, but he was forced to keep going with all the success his series had. It would have made way more sense thematically and it wouldn't have been too hard to tie the loose ends there, but instead he pulled reincarnation justu shit out of his ass and everything went downhill.

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That doesn't answer the question. It explains genjutsu that need eye-contact, but not people having special eyes that give them specific powers.

What's better than Rikudo Madara? Two Rikudo Madaras.

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Eyes are cool and mysterious

Eyes are appealing. Anime and manga often exaggerate eyes by making them larger and putting extra effort into shading and reflections in the eyes. So yes, the magical eyes trope is just an excuse to draw cool eyes in close up panels and on covers.

Not going to comment on the underdog thing but I also don't like how shounen animes connect main character to everything else that's happening through lineage.Oda fucking does it, Kubo did it too.Japs are crazy with this.

I recently started Shippuden. I really don't like Sai. Does something very bad at least happen to him to make dealing with his scenes better?

Naruto makes him less of a dick and he pretty much becomes irrelevant afterwards

lame

I liked Sai 15 years ago because I thought dick jokes were hilarious. On a recent reread/rewatch he just came off as a jerk though.

>I have summoned the grim reaper that will bring your souls to the afterlife, you will never be able to be reanimated as powerful zombies ever again
>lol, here is this shack walking distance from the village that everyone forgot about that can reverse this effect.

>This, why the fuck does Naruto act like he's been treated like dirt
Did you not see the first episodes?

To be fair, Sai was beyond autistic. He had no idea on how to make friends, and was learning from one of those shitty dad-joke tier books.

>Why do people continuously repeat this meme? Kishimoto neither said nor ever implied it.
Naruto's entire speech to Neji
Neji's entire character

>don't have chakra
Gai and Lee do have chakra you monkey. Lee just can't use it externally, and Gai just likes to punch people in the face too much to use any ninjutsu besides summoning.

He is introduced in possibly the worst arc in the story and existed only to create a link to a minor villain.

was that the arc were they spent 5 episodes on a bridge

It was only reversed because Orochimaru found the mask in the ruins of Uzshiogakure and studied the seal itself. The shack itself was just where they decided to do the job.

The mask is in a shack next to the village, where they do the job is Naka Shrine.

By working really hard. And it was forbidden because of the chakra requires. Something that he has in abundance.
All the other times he had to work hard and sweat for everything, constantly overshadowed by sasuke and others

... okay fuck that's weird then... maybe it was a shack Orochimaru used? I don't know.

Neji was done so dirty because Kishimoto knew he would be the elephant in the room at the end of the series because his destiny talk was basically proven right.

It was the Uzumaki clan's Shinigami mask storage warehouse or some shit. It was outside the village but not as far as Uzushiogakure. Orochimaru also had a scroll with some research on it. Even if the mask was close by he still needed the knowledge that he would need to slit his stomach as well as the knowledge that the mask was relevant at all.

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Yeah bro because everyone can just open eight gates.

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He probably studied Uzshiogakure and the Uzumaki.

>guy lee
Might Guy

The only reason kage bushin is a "hard" jutsu is because you cut your chakra in half (or however many pieces as there are clones you make) for a one hit point wonder. Regular people can maybe manage to use it a couple times a day, so learning to use it would be a long process, but Naruto essentally has endless chakra and can trial and error his way in a day and then effectively use it in combat on every occasion while the fox dumps chakra on him every time he runs dry.

>I'm basing my judgements on stuff characters say, not stuff that occurs
>I'm confused

Living proofs that no amount of hard work can overcome a serious genetic disadvantage. You know, like in real life.

>Having the kyuubi has nothing to do with lineage though.

Not only it in fact does, if you look past the purely genetic level, the difference is purely technical. It is an inborn advantage a character just had.

Obito should have been the protagonist

This

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Based. I love Obito.

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It's been almost 25 years and I still want to sex Naruto as the first day I saw him. Help me Yea Forums.

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Cutest guy.

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Cutest guy.

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Rin? More like Bin....TRASH BIN

This, substitution is such bullshit

Delete this.

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Whats so special about her anyway. Just another support thot

Naruto is ugly af bro

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Madara is much more special...Obito should've chosen HIM instead

She's cute, very kind, highly supportive of her friends, and extremely talented. She had no sannin training but can perform organ transplants at age 12. Obito/Kakashi/Rin >>> Naruto/Sasuke/Sakura.

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Madara is super special, but he is already married to me

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If they were so much better why did 2 of them DIE

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Because Minato is a shitty leader who knew 12 year old Kakashi was reckless and shunned teamwork but put him in charge anyway.

Now, who thought being a good combatant meant good teacher or administrator?

Idk some idiot. Village system was a mistake.

YAMERO

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no u

>Village system was a mistake.
Madara knew that. He wanted to change it completely. He did nothing wrong.

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>nothing wrong
He killed Rin and gave Kakashi PTSD. Leave my children, Team Minato, alone.

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Lee and Guy don't really reaffirm the genetic disadvantage thing, though. They reaffirm a spiritual disadvantage, because they became two of the strongest characters that didn't have some crazy reincarnation going for them. You still have Kakashi but Guy doesn't lag far behind him, even without using the 8th gate.

Village system was better than what they had before. Making a suitable, and good system of government when your population mainly consists of hired killers is a long and arduous task.

I agree, that was pretty mean, but I am sure Obito would be able to forgive him if Madara showed remorse, because Obito is such a good boy.

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No he wouldn't. The man Obito became would, and most definitely does not forgive what Madara did to him.

Too good for this world, which is why he dropped his Susano'o and then exited stage left.

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Look at him. How can you say that he is ugly?

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He would. I wish we got a Madara redemption arc

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Naruto is p cute, ngl.

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Adult Naruto is ugly

Die Madara.

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The post-Pain arc filler gives you a glimpse at how lonely he actually was as a kid. Ngl, it made me shed a tear.

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He never said that you faggot. He only said be urself

Madara-chan tried his best...

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His best? Look at the house he made them live in! Apologize.

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Madara was a 100 year old criminal with no salary, what do you expect of him? He gave Obito a bed and 2 new friends! I want to smell Madara's chair/throne though. He probably never got up from it.

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Even if you can get one or two people capable of opening the 8 gates out of hundreds of potential ninja and they effectively become suicide bombers that die after their use, that's enough to devastate enemy villages. It would be a ninja arms race that surpasses the biju, and we know the ninja world is capable of creating Shinobi that are tools of war (like Anbu root and effectively what the Jinchuriki were meant to be in the first place). And to answer that rebuttal before it's even stated, yes one theme since the Zabuza arc is to show that ninja are inherently human and not just tools of war, but that's only after Narujesus gives them a stern talking to - suicide bombers exist because they are brainwashed into killing themselves and causing as much damage to the enemy as possible, not because they rationally think it through without any sort of influence, pressure, or insanity.

When did Naruto push the idea of hard work > Talent? The main theme of their debate was the ability to change your destiny. Besides, it's not like characters like Sasuke and Neji sit on their asses all day long and only rely on their talent to do something. they do train every and improve themselves.

Now how about this
>villages start working in genetic research, focusing on creating serums that allow people to work harder, rest less, effectively making it easier for people hit the 8 gates
The problem is that no one but Guy,Lee and Dai took the 8 gates seriousely, they could've made experiments to try and make it more feasible.

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Neji was right all along kek

How does Madara smell like?

you can solve that by commissioning me ;)

He was by far the best taijutsu user in his class even with no sharingan.

But Naruto didn't change his own destiny of being a hero that would save the world

Flowers and blood.

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>Neji tels Hinata that she should quit being a ninja
>She actually quits being a ninja to become a housewife

It's still a hax power-up that only he is allowed to have

>Jiraiya and co specifically state that he tries nonstop until exhaustion.
Except when it comes to paying attention in ninja school

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Why would he change it though?
Neji believed that his destiny was a bad one and it was forced upon him as a member of the cadet branch and he called his destiny (destiny of hatred) but in the end instead of being used as a tool for the main branch he actually surpassed a member of the main branch and choosed by his own will to save hinata who was actually wasn't important for the hyuga clan anymore because her title was passed to her little sister at that time.
Neji did change his destiny as a member of the cadet branch.
Just because Naruto is destined to be great that doesn't mean he has no choice or a hand in his future.
Naruto did learn the sage mode and made one of the strongest demons who was feared by all in the series his friend and used his full power to save the people who matter to him because he's a good hearted guy.

>Having the kyuubi has nothing to do with lineage though. It exists outside of his family, and has nothing to do with being Senju or Namikaze.
You’re right, it has to do with him being an Uzumaki. Uzumakis had a 100% success rate for becoming jinchuurikis because of their bodies.

No, it would have shat on all the build up about Naruto and Sasuke coming together to face a bigger threat and would have been nothing more than fanservice for a popular character and subverting expectations.

However, replacing Madara with Kaguya was even worse writing.

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TobiMada's kinky hatefuck would be pretty hot.

Very nice

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It wasn't his fault, we fucking saw him creating nigger Zetsu out of his own powers. Yet apparently it was Kaguya's child all along.

No it would not. I made that post. I want Madara to fuck me. Even though I'd probably die, it'd be worth it

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I bet that the memory of creating black Zetsu was false and put into Madara's mind so he'd trust him

>I want Madara to fuck me
But you are weak woman, aren't you? And Madara wants to be fuck by strong man, so only Senju bros can do that.

Madara wants to FUCK anyone strong probably.

I've always hated him for just being a fujobait replacement for Sasuke in fillers and filler movies.

Ironically, the dick jokes were the most interesting part of his character.

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* wants to be fucked
Pretty sure Madara is bottom, he is Yin after all.

At least Ino sort of cured his autism.

Why does Naruto feel the need to lie about his past to random little girls even after becoming the fucking president?

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Where's the spoilers for the latest chapter of Boruto?

Not when fillers always have him hang out with all the other kids who apparently had no problem with him

Naruto is still sort of immature at heart.

If Naruto is a 10 then Sasuke is a 9.5 who can absolutely hang with Naruto on his level and maybe possibly win against him, now just imagine if Naruto never had the fox. Sasuke is a fucking monster when you think about it.

Without the 9 tails, Naruto would be a lot lower down the power tier list which serves to make everyone near his level seem even more monstrous.

It's like they are both overpowered reincarnations of ninja gods or something like that

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I am. B-but wouldn't he take pity on me and protect me? Madara's little bro was weak too and he loved him. If I form a strong bond of love with him, he'd overlook my weakness right?

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>It's like they are both overpowered reincarnations of ninja demi-gods or something like that
Fixed

So what's was the point of Kaguya?

What's her personality?

Fuckin A I always forget that somehow. Difference is the one Naruto is the reincarnation of was a giga chad compared to Naruto sans fox.

>Madara's little bro was weak
What? He wasn't weak, just unfortunate enough to face Tobirama on the battlefield.
>overlook my weakness
Never. Weakness disgusts him.

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>Final boss is too charismatic, let me replace him with a wet rag so I can focus the final fight on team 7 and Obito instead

I'd argue that Naruto was in the lead against Sasuke until after Orochimaru died.
Sasuke got rekt by Kage bushin when Naruto went to impersonate him. Rekt by Rasengan when Kakashi stepped in to stop them fighting each other. Even his "win" when he tried to leave the group consisted of getting rekt multiple times and getting a random new power up until Naruto decided not to kill him.

Post Shippuden Naruto was somewhat consistently a powerhouse while Sasuke is just trying to be edgy while gaining random eye powers and getting wailed on.

Sasuke spent the entire series jobbing just so Naruto could look better which is why I don't understand why people call Sasuke a Gary Stu.

I think the idea was to put him in a position that forced teamwork instead of Kakashi running off and ignoring orders.

I meant that he was weaker than Madara. He protected him!
>Weakness disgusts him
Yes, but... but... I am in love with this man, he is all I want and all I need, what do I do? Would he laugh at me if I told him how I feel?

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Probably due to the way the narrative was treating him.
Sasuke gets handed powerups he didn't "earn" or train for like candy while everyone praises him for being an amazing ninja. His losses come off less as him not being "awesome" and more like when people writing Mary Sues try to disguise the fact that the Mary Sue is one.

TLDR because the writing is treating him like he's a Mary Sue and he sets off many Mary sue red flags, he is treated like one by the readers.

He always came off as a huge dick to me in that scene at the end of Kakashi gaiden where Kakashi wakes up and Minato tells him "I teleported to where you were and killed all the enemies by myself, sorry I didn't do it earlier... by the way Rin is traumatized now"

Because when he actually trained he just kept jobbing because he wasn't as special as Naruto or Itachi

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Why does every Naruto thread always devolve into a Madara/Obito wankfest?

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It's because I am here and I am in love with Madara. Then sometimes Obitoanon joins too.

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Setting the bar at Itachi is way too high. Itachi was the maryest of sues. He was actually pretty "special" by general Uchiha standards from what I can tell.

I like to eat my salad with creamy ranch dressing.

I want to wank Obito.

Madara and Obito were the heroes we needed. They are so based that words ail me in expressing how based they are.

Salad is a slut.

And I love sluts.

indeed

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True. imgur.com/a/aRjpCi0

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tfw no Salad cheating gf

Sasuke should have been the MC. Naruto is so boring.

To add depth to Rikudo Sennin

Adult Naruto and Sasuke are overpowered as they are still not using their reincarnated powers like they did years ago in Shippuden.

He would have actually been a better final boss than Kaguya since he had actually been mentioned many times before and it would have fit in with the pottery of the sage's two halves fighting the sage

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>all this arguing over boruto and sumire or boruto and salad
>this picture now makes me want sumire to eat the salad instead

Best OP
Best ED

All Uchihas are pathetic degenerates. Senju pride world wide!

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OP6
Shippuden OP6
Boruto OP4

Why the fuck would anyone care about kumo so much?

Anti Sasuke and Naruto fans love raikage, blasphemous I know.

Kumo's where all the blacks are in universe. So cuck/bestiality fags always use them.

Why did he struggle with Lee then? Why didn't he literally defeat Gaara in his own bijuu mode? Why was he having difficulty following the movements of Naruto without his Sharingan activated.

Sasuke would never beat toneri or fight a Bloodlusted momo and live, so he's fairly weaker than Naruto at full power.

>Why did he struggle with Lee then?
Because Kishi had show that even though Sasuke was the best in his class they were all still far behind from the other chunnin exam competitors

>Why didn't he literally defeat Gaara in his own bijuu mode?
Because he had to job so Naruto could be the one to defeat him

>Why was he having difficulty following the movements of Naruto without his Sharingan activated.
Because fox hax is ridiculously overpowered

Naruto beat Toneri with a single punch without even using his Jesus mode.

She's a waste of an abortion and ntr fuel narutards use to envision making Naruto better than sasuke. If I had known Sarada would be so much hentai fuel with Naruto, I would stopped getting into this fandom earlier. I'm stopping now that's for sure.

Poor Sasuke, he's a laughing stock of the entire male Naruto fandom community, and they have to use his daughter as proof of their headcannon of making him a beta cuck to Narutos Chad.

They lame and boring blacks, they come of as diversity cues for the series from actual black fans, and look like fan characters that class with every thing prior to the Itachi fight with Sasuke, they are the poochies of the series and are the biggest mistakes in the series.

>So cuck/bestiality fags always use them.

Or just one guy, but regardless I quit the series because they were getting more porn than Uchiha men with women. Unforgiveable.

The first a guy with lots of potential but got pushed aside.
The second a cool guy that got his spotlight and last stand stolen by naruto and now is just a cripple

You forget that he also has:
Uzumaki Bloodline (Long Life, and Massive Chakra reserves)
Kyuubi (who's strong enough to fight 7 tailed beasts at half power, infinite chakra)
His mentors are two legendary fighers (Jiraya and Kakashi)
Literal reincarnation of Asura (the hero of the generation)
Literal child of destiny

how would Sasuke react to Nardo dicking Sarada?

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>reading Boruto

Neji's eyes could indeed see the future. He was just bad at interpreting of what he's seeing.
>You share the fate with Hinata
>Only those destined to be Hokage becomes Hokage
Just like how Momoshiki saw that Boruto's eye will bring him both power and misfortune. Momoshiki is just better at interpreting the future he sees.

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It's a good thing Kishi never preached that.

Are you retarded? Those guys are nearly useless. they are not even in the top 10 most useful naruto allies.

...

He did after Rock Lee became more popular then both naruto and sasuke combined.

I swear some yall watch Naruto half asleep. It explains a lot how ppl misconstrue the themes of Naruto

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Did you miss the part where that didn't mean SHIT? He was bad as a ninja, never learned more than 2 jutsus, no one even knew he was the hokage's son (and if they did, they'd all think he was an embarrassment to his family and the 4th's reputation would have been semi-marred), and he got no special treatment or even respect until he saved the village. Even the Kyuubi hated his fucking guts and was just waiting for the opportunity to take over his body til he worked hard enough to build a friendship with him.

As much as it pains me to bring this up, Guy was the only one to be able to do this much damage to Sage Madara. I had to close my eyes multiple times during that fight. Do not harm the cute Madara please.

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Are there any comfy doujin with Madara teaching Obito?

I'm afraid most of it is either untranslated or shit like Madara teaching little Obito how his male parts work...

Post body faggot

Too bad. Are the untranslated ones scanned at least?

I do not know. Try searching ''madaobi'' in the manga partt of pixiv

>Not reading Boruto

Then why is he drawn more in fanart than sasuke? It's blasphemy!

Because sasuke sucks (literally) and is only good for being passed around by stronger men

More like sucking at everything doesn't matter. Quit crying and get gud was the overall message.

He's kill them both, hentai artists fail to capture Sasuke's hatefulness and emotional impact on sheer despair when making sakura and sarada whores for Naruto.

I want 1000 quality Rikudo Madara fanarts on my doorstep right now. There is probably that much of Sasuke. You don't have it so bad.

Sasuke couldnt kill nardo

They lubby chudder. Killing salad is believable tho.

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They should of. Especially when it came to Guy's incredible strength. For someone who has far less ninjutsu in his arsenal than his peers, you'd think this would catch the attention of anyone.

Sasuke fan arts are poorly drawn shoujo shit. Sasuke has no real talented fan artist that dedicates hentai and fan service to him.

>Sasuke/narutos get cucked by Raikage/kiba/faceless blacks
D..don’t they realize those two are demigods?

Oh hey it’s the fag self inserting namecuck

>>lineage and bloodline doesnt mean anything, hard work and dedication are more important
Not sure why people act like this was a moral Naruto tried to push. It was always there but Naruto's beef as a character wasn't about not being a special snowflake, it was about being an outcast. This aspect was never really done justice since people like the Third Hokage knew about Natuto but still let him be treated as a pariah, but it never really tried to push an anti-bloodline message. The entire series is built on clans and bloodline techniques, even the minor characters are part of this.

You still have it good. I save sketches of my beloved Sage and cherish them forever. Draw something yourself if you judge other people's work so much...

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Uzumaki clan is extinct so you cant use that to say Naruto has an OP bloodline, his power mainly comes from Minato his mom is a worthless jobber.

lineage and bloodline are important, even in real life.
But in Naruto they take it to extreme, you're irrelevant if you dont have a demi god as your ancestor. Guy doesn't count because 8 gates are one time only.

There’s plenty of good Sasuke stuff.
Well before someone edits it to narutos face.

Completely worthless in the grand scheme of things.

Japan is literally incapable of fathoming a hero who doesn't draw at least a fraction of their power from their lineage/blood/heritage, this goes back to their deeply ingrained xenophobia.

If a hero can be a literal mutt born from nothing then that forces them to admit that anyone can be great, even the white/black/etc gaijins that they consider inferior to themselves. It's a clash of ideals that in incompatible with their values.

>his power mainly comes from Minato his mom is a worthless jobber.
Minato was the useless one here. He didn't do shit except sealing 9 tails inside Naruto which he learned from the Uzumaki.

Minato was a kage so he wasnt a weakling, and the fact he could keep up with Obito is a decent feat.

Kishi did a fuckterrible job of depicting that though. If Naruto's abilites had been completely different from both his parents' then maybe your point would stand, but instead he fucking makes his daddy's own jutsu into his own signature and gets trained by all the people who know/were related to his parents.

>after Rock Lee became more popular then both naruto and sasuke combined.
?

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Definitely not useless, but yeah his bloodline wasn't special.
Actually that's funny, Minato should've been the typical shounen protagonist in this case.

>daddy's own jutsu into his own signature and gets trained by all the people who know/were related to his parents.
First shonen bro?
Roshi trained Son Gohan who was Goku's adoptive father.

Is she orgasming?

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Ashita no Joe
Saint Seiya?

Smug.

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>Saint Seiya
Wasn't whole main cast all bastard offspring of the old guy that raised Athena?

Yes but only in manga if I'm not wrong.

Neji was goddamn right. Kishi killed him off because he knew too much. In the world of Naruto hard work does not pay off. Unless you are a Senju or an Uchiha, don't even bother.

Gai was a fucking monster, remember that time he OHKO'd the entirety of akatsuki and broke Itachi's legs?

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I can't speak for anime, because I couldn't stand watching it due to it being redistributed by the French, so had French dub. And French censoring, which is the worst censoring in existence.
Also, manga always takes precedence over anime when it comes to determining canon.

>Naruto allegedly does't inherit any powers.
>Naruto gets multiple significant power ups in the span of couple days because he's the reincarnation of a demigod
makes sense

THAT'S ILLEGAL!

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Not my fault she was literally born to be a breeding sow.

>aving the kyuubi has nothing to do with lineage though.
Wrong. Kyuubi was sealed in two Uzumakis before Naruto, so it is a sort of inheritance.

But what do you like about her personality?

So you are saying if I lay my nuts on your mother's forehead then lay them on yours you are inheriting nuts on your forehead.

Reminder that an elite like Kakashi needed 2 of Obito's eyes to become relevant.
Fuck Kishi.

They're big, about DD size. Probably milk filled till recently.

Such is life as a nonclan untermensch

They didn't achieve anything. They worked hard and people laughed at them because of it, the end.

H-her back must hurt

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Guy did get to beat one Akatsuki, though it was mostly because he wasn't aware that you could make giant laser tigers without using chakra

Ah, do I see a person that hasn't looked at the moon yet?
(You)

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>Fucking ramen man was apparently known as one of the most deadly and horrifyingly brutal Anbu to ever exist.
source on this?

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user do you not read when they told you that Lee's team was basically their senpai?

Why is nardo part 2 art style so fucking ugly? The very definition of soulless.

Loser pandering. Talented > untalented.
They want to sell the bullshit that "but if I work more hard than them then I can be better!" totally ignoring that the talented can work as hard as untalented, and they will benefit for the hard work even more because they are talented.
If an untalented can work 24 hours a day a talented person can work 24 hours a day too, so the gap between them will only be bigger.

Am I the only one who prefers the cleaner art of part 2? Also the character designs are better.

No. I want to send Kishimoto a personal letter, thanking him for drawing the perfection that is Rikudo Madara. Every decision about his design is just so good. I love every single line. It's like he was made for me. He has everything that I like and more. I still can't believe. Rikudo Madara is my reason to live.

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Jesus christ did you just finish watching Naruto yesterday or what

Pocky
without Itachi
is BLASPHEMY

Was he even born then?

These were never themes of the series. Naruto was about hard work, and he had to work hard to take advantage of the natural abilities that were initially handicapping his progress.

They were fighting a god. Becoming relevant at all is a feat, he was actually not just relevant but quite useful.

gai killed kisama

But Neji was right. He died to save someone from the main family and Naruto became an incredibly powerful ninja thanks to being the reincarnation of Ashura.

Hagaromo gives him hax for being the reincarnation of Ashura right after this.

Prove it.

Ugly!

You're ugly

I want to kiss Madara's cute horn

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Take this with a shaker of salt, but this is what have been leaked so far:

>Boruto and Mitsuki return to the village, while Sakura tells Sarada about Hagoromo.
>Jigen appears where Naruto and Kawaki are at and attacks Naruto.
>Kawaki’s appearance changes briefly with a horn Sasuke saw jigen’s original form have.
>Sasuke doesn’t appear in the chapter.
>Next chapter is Naruto vs. Jigen.

So what is going on in Boruto? I haven't watched since the cuck arc.

>Neji was right, Naruto is a fucking liar.
Naruto isn't a liar, he's a retarded child sure, but not a liar. He honestly believed in the things he said.
Not really sure why Yea Forums keeps going on about this when believing in being able to change your destiny or whatever would be exactly the thing that an inexperienced underdog reject would come up with.

I tried drawing him for you but i spent all my artistic energy on making a card for kyo...

I hope you like it anyway.

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That doesnt mean he had those powers the entire time.

Yeah, he should also have better lewds than Naruto!

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Oh godness, he's so adorable! Thank you Ratto! I respect people who can draw. Pic related is a Madara I drew the other day. P-please don't laugh at him, I tried my best!

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Sakura got better then she deserved even now. Wed to a human Act of God everybody hates but can't do anything about because muh power levels. Effectively a single mother rasing her brat alone while Naruto and Hinata broadcast their glorious breeding across the village. JK rowling really needs to kill her off and things will at last be perfect

A cute.
Im sure if madara saw it, he'd love it.

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Thank you very much...!

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Its funny how people remember this fight. If you actually reread it, its mostly Neji lecturing Naruto until he gets riled up enough to respond.

Agree absolutely, it was a confusing and ultimately disappointing change and a betrayal of the core aspect of Naruto's character.

There was also the whole conversation between Jiraiya and Orochimaru during their fight. Their differences in world view and training ninja philosophy came to the forefront.
This also very much. But it was all Part I. Shippuuden kind of feels like some alternate timeline or different dimension.

>Naruto is a fucking liar.
he was wrong yes but he wasnt lying.

>why I don't understand why people call Sasuke a Gary Stu.
It's easy. The Naruto fanbase has a lot of retards. It's arguably the dumbest international fanbase compared to other Shounen oriented stories.

Itachi is like a kid who mastered quantum physics at like 7 years old. Sasuke was like a high school level genius at 5 with no assistance and everyone was like "Aww too bad he's not Itachi~" as if he wasn't already better than every other kid his age.

just like real life
you need to be amazingly talented(op of the 1%) or have pedigree not to be an npc

>Madara was a lovable chuuni
>Itachi was fucking naked snake
>And aliens
The ending of Naruto was kind of kino.

Yes but he was a baby. He is like 9 years younger.

Minato: "How convenient, My infant son, who is half Senju, is genetically predisposed to containing literally half the power of god is right in front of me. Let's do this"

The problem is that you're wrong.

Naruto being Naruto, without Kyuubi would have lost the fight against Neji, proving Neji's opinion correct. Not only that, second round would be Neji vs Sasuke, which would determine the winner, as Shino and Temari couldn't have possibly won against either of them.

In other words, it would come down to Uchiha genes vs Hyuga Genes.
Only thing that changed it was the existence of Kyuubi, not anyhow any kind of grit or determination.

I would be. Why are all the teams cute MMF teams?

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Naruto is a gateway anime of the worst kind. It's a bad series, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive shipping faggotry and DARKNESS. The normal user can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the series itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.

However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for aspie, unsociable underageb& faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The superpowered characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the jutsus, peculiar, colorful clothes, the whole ninja faggotry and everything about the Naruto world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on revenge, and overall preachiness of the series make it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes little kiddies and underageb& retards eat this shit right the fuck up.

Naruto is basically THE series to attract the most hated anime fanbase known to Yea Forums, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every user to troll the fuck out of this show and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Naruto threads ever encourage the newfriends to show their faces here.

They are Japanese after all
Unless a revolution happens to overthrow their shitty Kingdom nobody will change in their mentality
Similiary to the Brits of today

Fuck off narutards

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Theyre all the same teams

One is the loudmouth powerhouse
2nd one is the quiet genius
3rd one is healslut

>hugging edgy Naruto at the waterfall
This part was so damn stupid. Naruto's "dark side" was never shown in the series. Anytime he went into malicious rage was Kurama-induced, other than that he was basically a saint at all times. The edgy side felt like it came out of nowhere.

Thats because Kishi made shit up as he went along

To be fair, you don't have to show a dark side to have one.
But in fiction, it does help to establish it before doing something like that, since it wasn't built up at all.

A few.

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Hinata and tenten weren't heal sluts. Ino learned healing that she rarely ever used. I don't know if Konan knew how to use healing.

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Embrace it user, Naruto is just objectively sexy AF.

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I meant it in a non-serious manner, the "support" girls

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who?

In filler sandaime says the one girl is to encourage competition between the two guys so they improve.

>watched
Read it instead.

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Secrets revealed.

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Obitobi

I want to live in the Kamui dimension.

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A calm place to where you can teleporn whenever you don't want to deal with anybody? Yes please... until Kakashi sends in a nuke.

>Teleporn
I've made a grave mistake

Maybe he will teleport in some porn.

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Kakashi is a bro

But Naruto hardworked to reach where he was. He trained hard every day.

He married to the girl that had a crush on him since the first fucking series.

Go put a building on fire you waifu shittier.

Funny despite how much training he went through he couldn't archive anything with it. Sasuke shat on him, Pain curbstomped his ass..
Most of his victories were using gifted powers.

Thanks for the book Kakashi, but why are the pages stuck together?

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He did still work hard. Rasengan, Shadow Clones, Summoning, etc. He had great genes and luck by being born with an endless chakra factory in his body but if he was a lazy doof then none of it would have mattered.

>2019
>people still question neji

shame on you

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>hard work and dedication are more important
This was never a thing for Naruto himself. He was always about muh nakama and power in others and inspiring people.

In the Land of the Waves, what resolved the conflict? Naruto's words were able to reach Zabuza who was convinced to betray Gato and kill him. Even afterwards, Gato's men were armed and can cause trouble but Naruto's actions inspiring Inari enabled him to rally the entire town to chase those men out. Now those men would think twice before attacking Inari's people after this story arc because they've grown a massive pair of balls and now are willing to fight back. This wasn't hard work that solved the problem. It was individual cases of Talk no Jutsu and inspiring little kids leading to a domino effect of motivated adults who altogether team up to solve the problem. It's a combination of inspiring others and becoming strong through unity. It's present elsewhere too. Hinata was inspired by Naruto's ability to never give up and fell for him, becoming one of his greatest supporters. Shadow Clones are the epitome of doing more as a group than a single person can. Naruto was always muh friendship inspiring people and uniting to achieve greater goals than what can be done alone.

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Was neji literally capable of seeing the future?

exactly. WHO?????

Adding to this, this is almost shoved down the reader's throat with Asura and Indra's story. Asura was a talentless guy and while he had hard work, what everyone kept on emphasizing when describing Asura was the way he got others on his side while Indra was a loner. That was what got him chosen as the Sage's successor. Asura's defining thing wasn't his hard work, it was what he could accomplish with his own efforts plus the efforts of all his followers.

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Is it Ashura or Asura?

He was a scholar and a prophet at age 12.

>Zabuza who was convinced to betray Gato and kill him
Gato had already betrayed Zabuza and announced his intent to kill him, but otherwise yeah.

Imagine a Naruto story where Lee is the protag and slowly unlocks the gates through dedication to his training. Before finally sacrificing himself to defeat Madara at the end of the story. Fuck the alien shit off too

Naruto worked hard too.

Up until they made him the chosen one, sent straight from heaven to save the world

>hard work and dedication are more important
>This was never a thing for Naruto himself.
I kind of disagree. That message was more encapsulated by Lee, which Naruto strongly empathize with. Also Naruto was strongly presented as the underdog within the narrative, an archetype often associated with the "hard work/strong will get you through everything" etc... I'd also argue it become a thing for Naruto once he decides to get serious and train with Jiraya. It changes later when the story began to focus on his lineage.

>Naruto's characterization was all over the place so naturally it ended contradicting whatever messages you associate with him most.
He's a looser, demon's vessel, has zero friends, low charisma, he's awe inspiring, he's compassionate, he's egoist, he's a great friend, he works hard, everything is handed to him because of who he is, he preach teamwork, he never do teamwork unless it's with Sasuke, he's a gary stu, etc..

English Asura, Romanji Ashura.

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So it's like Indra and Indora, got it.

I want Obito to read the icha icha books to me.

This

"muh hard work" was just rock lee's thing, not a core theme for the series as a whole

This time I'm going to replace the Uchiha stone tablet with one that says I am Madara's wife and he is going to believe it. Perfect plan!

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Sometimes retarded autists think that Lee isn't just a side character who lost every fight he was in. Maybe they relate to him because they're such losers

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Why do almost every shounen do this?
>propagate that your whole story depends on never giving up, try as hard you can and go the extra mile effort so you can do everything!
>the realtiy oof the manga:
>MC (and his rival/friends) has broken inherite or acquiired power
>Is related to the top dogs in the world and knows them
>is trained by the best

like i dount care its for "kids", every 12 year old sees how retarded this is.
Imagine naruto being a no name inzuka. yeah bro have fun defeating kaguya with your piiss arround technique

>not a theme
>the protoganist and other characters literal says bloodline doesnt matter several times in the manga, just skill
yeah bro why do people keep harping arround that! what try hards!

And yet the picture show you something else and every single fight Naruto wins, he wins becasue of birthright. Did it ever occur to you to reach between the lines? Naurto isn't literature. The information you have access to is not limited to the dialogue.

Kiba spinoff when

>And yet the picture show you something else
what are you even about dude, the characters SAY THIS
IN UNIVERSE
i don't care about your feelings or your Yea Forums interpretations you fuckup
> every single fight Naruto wins, he wins becasue of birthright.
factually wrong
>Did it ever occur to you to reach between the lines? Naurto isn't literature
First: ??????????????????????????????????
Second: Doesnt even know what literature means.
>The information you have access to is not limited to the dialogue.
Nobody say that, doesnt have anything to do with i said
You seem mentally challenged reading a simple battle shounen, i would neck myself in your case

>SAY THIS
>IN UNIVERSE
And the events show you the opposite. Guess you lack the necessary braincells to understand battle shounen. Quite unfortunate.

In the Infinite Tsukuyomi!

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Thanks Madara, I will surely look into the moon tonight!

>and the event are the oppsoite
BUT THATS THE POINT YOU MONGO, THE CHARACTER SAYING IT WHILE IT DOESNT HAPPEN, THATS WHY ITS BAD AND DOESNT MAKE SENSE HOLY SHIT YOU BRAINLET ALSO GOOD JOB ON DODGING EVERY OTHER POINT WHERE YOU MAKE INBREED OF YOURSELF HOLY SHIT YOU SHOULD BE SHOT ON SIGHT

Ya fume? Ya seethe? Ya boil?

that sounds more like the author fucking up. From a narrative perspective naruto was absolutely presented like an underdog with the odds stacked against him by both the author's words and the people in-universe, but the reality was the complete opposite. Sometimes writers fuck up their messaging and presentation. It's similar to how shitty and forced naruto's and sasuke's "friendship" was or sakura's love for sasuke

Ohh yes...!

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>THATS WHY ITS BAD
>YOU BRAINLET
Glad I am not this dumb.

>presented like an underdog with the odds stacked against him
Tell me, why is it impossible for an individual who has a birthright to still be a hard worker? What defines Naruto as a character is his will to never give up. His willingness to improve and become a better person and ninja instead of exclusively relying on what was handed to him. The story never claims for birthright to be irrelevant, but rather for it to be one of various factors. Naruto was an underdog, but he got rid of his underdog status by properly utilizing what was given to him. At no point during the series did it ever imply for hardwork to the end of all means. Hell, even Gai only learned about the gates because of his father. And he's supposed to be the "muh hardwork" character of the series.

The problem is that double digit IQ posters like this guy interpret his status as an underdog as the authors claim for birthright to not matter, when that was never stated. Naruto isn't admired for who he was born as, but for who he became and despite who he was born as. Kishimoto puts focus on this multiple times throughout the series, most notably through Itachi by telling the audience that an individual needs to be acknowledged FOR THEIR ACTIONS before they can become Hokage, not the other wayround.

People simply are too fucking retarded to understand that the story has never bee pro hardwork and contra genetics. It's been pro hardwork, pro mental strength, pro genetics. (Apparently) the average contrarian lacks the mental capacity to find actual fault with the series. Your accusation doesn't even make any sense. If what you claim was a fuck up on the writer's end, then Kishimoto would have had fucked up in CHAPTER 1. Because back then Naruto's birthright already allowed him to preform Hokage like feats.

>this guy has double digit
>people are contrarian
>Itachi telling the audience
>Itachi told the audience that bloodline doesnt matter but skill, but that doesnt count
>im smart btw.

Literally who

>Itachi told the audience that bloodline doesnt matter but skill, but that doesnt count
Too dumb to comprehend that A mattering doesn't automatically mean that B doesn't matter. Besides, while Itachi says this Naruto, is his utilizing his birthgiven chakra cloak, provided to him by the strongest force of nature available to man. His genetics/birthright are what allow him to perform the actions required to become Hokage.

tldr for mentally stunted spics, teens and contrarians
actions matter more than genetics
but genetics are required to perform actions

The man who almost took down Madara (as much as i hate to say it)

>the time itachi say generic action line to naruto is he talking to the audience
>the time itachi is talking about combat skill as one of the top dogs in the world doesnt count and he diidnt actually mean it
continue pretending cumbrain

blog post btfo, kek

people really just need to accept that neji was right

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God I wanted to jump in front of Madara to protect him from Guy's attacks...

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Yea, it's a shame that he becomes such a pussy afterwards and is irrelevant for most of the series

>tfw when you were right from the start but get turned by a underwritten shitter MC because shitter writter and plot
feels bad man. Imagine neji working to the top and being hokage, redpilling all the dreamers

It no surprise really, japs love their "I (mc) have a dream/objective/hobby, like probably many others, however, I (mc) am the CHosEn ONe and secretly(/or openly) posses this one special trait(/or multiple traits) that will propel me (the mc) to higher glory & success then what anyone else(the rest of the cast) could possibly dream of"
It's very simple, according to the unwritten, "japaniversal" rule of shounen media, only the protagonist or protagonist + deuteragonist can really face off the Final Boss, other members of the cast may provide assistance at best, but the one achieving the Final Form to deliver the Final Blow to the Final Boss always has to be the protagonist or protagonist + deuteragonist which may have been a villain earlier or is the protagonist's sexual interest character.
naruto's creator was crazy about dragon ball, so that's what naruto is, just in a different setting with a different plot but the same narrative of get OP, steamroll the enemies, get even more OP when previous power-up isn't enough, face off the the threat, then face of the planetary/universal scale level threat that was behind it all, win, have descendants, repeat.
It's the nipponise gold making formula, its success is mostly guaranteed, throw in a couple of waifus for the harem factor, some memes and your set, their audience, no, the world has been eating up that crap since the 70's.
In the end, if you aren't a Saiyan/descendant of The Ones/inheritor of the ancient artifact/spirit/force/entity or the recipient of some in-universe god genetics, you can't go "super saiyan XVII god almighty omni-ultra-hypermode ultimate final *GOLD* with magic miracle eyes and the most attention grabbing hairstyle magical girl form" and that means your stats will be suboptimal and therefore irrelevant at the end of the show.
That's shounen anime/manga/games for you, and westerners have been increasingly introducing this rule into their stuff too, as expected after years of exposition to it.

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>when you realize toriyamas bad writing and powerlevel wwank and audience pleasing money chasing tainted shounen forever
how does he get away with it....

That's how he got redeemed.

He wasn't right about everything

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Incorrect. Sasuke held all nine Biju (1-8 tails and the Yang half of Kurama) hostage.

Literally no reason for the other half of Kurama to seal himself inside Naruto after Naruto saved them, half of him is already in Naruto.

Sasuke he's really cool

Wrong. Both halves of Kuruma are inside Naruto now. Who do you think Sot6P told to get the fuck back into Naruto? The half that wasn't inside of him anymore. Post war Naruto has the entirety of the Kyuubi and chakra from all the other tailed bests which is why he can still access the Sot6P hacker mode.

tobirama was the best hokage and neji was right, change my mind

Because you need to explain why your teenage MCs are stronger than every single battle hardened warrior that has come before them.

Madara the beautiful

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Tobirama was the best hokage, the Uchiha are scum and the series would've been better without them and their fucking eye hax

Boruto Spoilers

Naruto vs. Jigen HYPE

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Madara and Obito should've been the only Uchihas. An ancient, strong clan. Only 2 dudes remaining. There were too many of them in the series.

How the fuck did that guy teleport into Naruto's house?

Yea they were fine. Fuck gary stu ass Itachi though

>There were too many of them in the series.
There were only 4 of them as relevant characters.

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Through Kawaki's Karma, guess Jigen literally meant it that it was impossible for Kawaki to escape from him.

I think the bee fight proved this notion wrong, Sasuke was above average compared to his peers but not other ninjas that specialize in kage level skill.

>bro 10tails out of nowhere
>bro random ass monkey character has the power to control the 10tails something not even Madara or Kaguya could
>bro I can also use Obitos hacker ability
>bro I can just absorb chakra from it
Fuck this fanfiction author

It's hilarious how later zombie Itachi is perfectly capable of keeping up with Bee despite not being a sword user.

What a fucking gary stu.

Sasuke had the most humiliating defeats in the series, I felt Kishi made him a equal to the hero out of pity for making Sasuke look like a tool and the ultimate loser after Naruto pretty much achieve Jesus hood first and for most while Sasuke has lost every thing.

He would probably do an asspull to survive gai going 8 gates on him for fucks sake

How the fuck being focused on making one a Gary stu? Sasuke had to match all the power of the ninja world and end of series naruto somehow. World building wise, he basically was more exposition into different sides of the world and was was babysitted in surviving it and barely, a true Gary Stu would have had no problems fighting and winning against each opponent and basically would have been a invincible super kage level force that the main villain would have fucking been intimidated by, but this wasn't the case.

Ugly.

The only really humilliating defeat was Bee.

Everything else was just the regular Vegeta-tier jobbing of "oh you are really strong but not strong enough as MC-kun". He managed to wound Gaara twice and Haku forced him to take a bullet for Naruto because otherwise he would have lost to the sharingan but he still needed to lose for Naruto to be the hero.

>3rd one is healslut
No, 3rd one is useless girl

do not forget sasuke is a confirmed cheatiing drugged up hormon cum dumpster while training with oro. That is canon

Temari son a best

>The only really humilliating defeat was Bee.
>Everything else was just the regular Vegeta-tier jobbing
user let me let you into a secret how vegeta is seen in the db fan scene....

Nothing in Boruto the anime is "best"

Did vegeta lose to a borderline gag hero that wrote rhymes and good around while proceeding to whoop his ads til he decided to throw the fight to go on vacation.

Vegeta defeats where by focusing serious end game opponents.

Sasuke loses to 2 nearly goofy heroes(rock Lee and killer b) that proceed to get the worf effect after nearly beating Sasuke making Sasuke a double loser.

>Did vegeta lose to a borderline gag hero that wrote rhymes and good around while proceeding to whoop his ads til he decided to throw the fight to go on vacation.
He lost to Recoome

fucking keked user

vegeta pulled an visual novel speech and blow up himself only for pink bubblegum to forget about him 2 seconds later

>freaking recoome
Oh snap!

He really got you there, user. What do you have to say to that?

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