Why are isekai writers so obsessed with crop rotation?
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It’s easy to explain. Makes no sense that this would be a revelation though, since nearly all civilizations have some sort of way to maintain soil fertility.
Babby's first future tech to make the haremettes worship him as a genius.
What isekai do even feature that? I feel like people exaggerate the frequency of it happening
Easy thing to understand and explain, making everybody involved feel smarter than what they actually think they are, specially the author.
cause you don't need to be a member of 4H to learn about it in public school
Fuck that shit just grow one type of potato lol nothing could go wrong.
t. Victorian English landlord
it's easy to explain. and it's usually what medieval europe clone lacks
It's like the Schrödinger's cat bullshitery.
It's one of those babby's first specific knowledge pieces plebs got so they reuse it for their OC fanfic. Some isekai fag started with it and everybody else copied it because they think knowing this makes them look smart.
They probably explain that shit in school along with schrodniggers cat and those guys can't be bothered to research anything that won't give them extra points in a exam so that's your answer
I still blame Maoyu
ITT retards that can't name the crops used for crop rotation yet think it's child's play
Nah, Maoyu introduced a lot of stuff that no isekai bothers to copy.
In a 4 year cycle:
1) wheat
2) onions beans
3) cannabis
4) free college tuition
Such as?
I wonder how many other entry level "science" thingies exist that manga and LNs use frequently.
Because isekai authors are as bad as Fallout 3's writers.
Based, checked & redpilled
At least they understand crop rotation, most uses of schrodinger's cat in fiction piss off everybody except for the "I fucking love science" crowd
Yeah it's ridiculous. You would assume one of them googled it once and actually read about it but nah.
Potatoes. Classical liberalism. Entrepreneurial capitalism. Land rights.
A lot actually, especially those that focus on nation-building
>MC bring agricultural revelation era tech to sengoku Japan and increases crops yields so much it disrupts the economy
Why don't more authors put in more research into their subjects?
E=mc^2 is the original "slap that shit on for some extra science points"
same reason every fucking math scene involves substitution
Why are isekai writers so obsessed with recreating Japanese rice in a western themed fantasy world?
Because asians love rice
Probably related to the Medieval boner.
>it's another episode where MC creates a hot spring and everyone loses their shit because fantasy medieval European peasants never heard of baths before
Because most LN/isekai writers are overgrown chuuni brainlets.
I think that it's actually pretty realistic for someone who's been isekai'd (or in any other fish out of water scenario) to want some of the comfort foods and other shit they're familiar with from their past life.
The question is how far they push it; putting significant effort into finding something so unnecessary might be unrealistic (especially in a faster paced isekai; it's pretty well justified in something like Mushoku Tensei), but trying to make 'japanese style' dishes after finding the right ingredients would be highly plausible.
Like dude what if the cat was alive but like it was also like dead because we don't know which it is. Science is so cool man, like you ever see the pictures of space
youtube.com
To be fair, you can do some incredibly clever things with substitution
worst girl
Shit taste
Realism is a bad thing, don’t try to use it as a standard of what’s good or not.
Most of her agricultural inventions are developed later within the same century anyway, including shrooms.
All other inventions are already known well in western world and china.
They're less of lack of research, but convenient contrivances.
Breaking the suspension of disbelief and being a pseud author is even worse.
gusu-kou a cute. A CUTE.
The only thing an isekai never show is capitalism.
Causality meme
Feudalism is Capitalism: Beginnings.
Worse, Schrödinger's cat stupid to begin with. Guy used it as criticism but it went over other scientist head.
Why would I care about what seems pseud to some low IQ normalfag when the real world is complete garbage that shouldn’t even exist?
I don't think you even know what pseud means, which is pretty funny and ironic.
>Isekai has slaves
>It's ok because the MC is nice to his slaves
>MC knows how to make gunpowder
>MC has an over powered ability
>World has MMO stat screens
I’m sure it’s completely different than your other normalfag buzzwords like “generic” and “edgy” and totally means something other than “I don’t like thing” user.
>>MC knows how to make gunpowder
what's wrong with this
>pretending to know about things you don't actually know about
You're literally being a pseud, nigger
The box was filled with helium?
Kill yourself you generic normalfag retard.
Once you know how to make black powder its super easy, but the problem is what kind of normal japanese would know the process for making it? Even most gun nuts wouldn't know this shit.
>>It's ok because the MC is nice to his slaves
It's okay because slaves make my dick hard and the story is being honest about what the audience wants out of a harem.
>says "generic" is a normalfag buzzword
>calls someone generic
Can you get more ironic?
>since nearly all civilizations have some sort of way to maintain soil fertility.
Explain Africa or Haiti.
Making gunpowder is easy. Describing sulfur and nitrates to people in a new world is the hard part (or isolating them from known compounds by hand).
>MC is a dexfag with a Katana
>Fire magic, "I know combustion, you burn oxygen, make CO2 rite?" Kaboom
>Saltpeter+Charcoal+Sulfur=Gunpowder
>A hectare of rice feed more people than a hectare of wheat, otherwise potato is more practical than rice.
>Paper+wood block printing
>Water closet. Unlike normal toilet, you can flush and spray your bum!
>Water pump mechanism
>Wagon- Slaps on ball bearing and shock breaker.
>"This is steam engine. You burn things inside, and the piston goes up and down."
>"This disease caused by small creatures called bacteria." proceed to invent antibiotic.
>Electrolysis aka gold plating
>Carving and bloodletting wild game.
>MC singlehandedly makes changes to the societal structures of the world that should take ages in a few weeks
Fuck japs and their Great Man bullshit, man.
Funnily enough the same idiot authors namedropping Schrodinger's cat also pull some "quantum physics affects macro objects just like subatomic particles".
Try googling something you don't know before embarrassing yourself.
Average isekaifag.
But you’re literally being generic as fuck right now user? I’m using the word exactly as you would use it user, crying about things you don’t like.
You normalfags embarass everybody else just by existing, user.
he said civilizations
>that isekai game thats been out for 4 years and in the first day protagonist finds something no one else has ever found and so becomes OP
How many isekai ignore the sheer hordes of players who min max until their dying breath and somehow the mc lucks into a bunch of bullshit to defeat things with muh feelings
When the fuck has that happened in isekai?
LMS is the only series I can think of that happening in, and that's a korean or chinese VRMMO LN.
>modern knowledge doesn’t affect a less developed world quickly
Okay retard.
>nation-building
this reminds me of The Prince by Machiavelli
Quantum Mechanics is magic in solf sci fi. Actually magic often make more sense than it.
>Fags said Overlord is about Nation-building
>MC is dumber than farmers of his new world
He’s the boss and lets his subordinates think and work while he makes final decisions like all bosses do.
Didn't Britbong farmers only work it out a few hundred years ago?
The hard part of it is getting the materials, saltpeter is a difficult material to obtain.
No, there is a more recent version from only a few hundred years ago where they removed the fallow period, by including clovers(for animals to graze on) and turnips. Which rather than clovers and turnips in particular it's about the addition of deep rooted vegetables and nitrogen fixing plants, clovers and turnips were the ones used at the time. It was part of the british agricultural revolution, but it was not the introduction of crop rotation to britain.
No. They just came up with a better and more efficient crop rotation.
Of course, sometimes civilizations intentionally forget crop rotation. The American Dust Bowl was partially caused because American farmers gave up crop rotation in favor of trying to pay down their crushing debt to the bank. They hoped that a few years of soil depletion could end their lending woes, and then they could make up for the damage once they were debt-free. It didn't work at all.
No, people have been doing crop rotation forever. I think even the Bible mentions it. The British just figured out a really good meta in the 1600s.
>CEOs of top firms can allow themselves to be dumb and lazy
This is your brain on isekai
yes, they can.
we're watching disney cannabalize themselves with poor creative decisions that will most certainly negatively effect them in the future.
What do they do? they make the decisions and some desk work which ainz also does.
It's all about connections and power, you don't work yourself up to ceo you get picked out by friends and family.
>He thinks Capitalism puts people in charge based on merit.
Why doesn't he just put his underlings in charge if they're so much better than him?
>He thinks Capitalism is about putting the best people in charge instead of yourself profiting off their work.
They are in charge of most things, big business owners just command not works his ass off.
Can he even make them angry?
>Isekai protagonist defeated by workplace harassment
To be fair, they were all kids. I don't remember any scenes where he introduces crop rotation to the King at least.
>get summoned to another world
>sneeze
en.wikipedia.org
>That Time That I Reincarnated into a Shithole Full of Niggers.
It took a while for ancient humans to realize human poop as fertilizer might not be such a good idea, like a really long long time before everyone realized it.
What is worst is the human societies that used pig toilets and thought it was a good idea to later slaughter the pigs used in pig toilets to feed people...
Human poop = Bad took centuries later for the idea to take hold.
Civilization isn't possible without slaves though. Human empires and public works projects wouldn't exist without slave labor.
Rome's famous roads were made by slaves for example. All those farms to support empires required massive manpower as well.
It would be selfish to ban slavery in an isekai world and then not think about the consequences.
>human poop as fertilizer might not be such a good idea
why not?
I can honestly say I know about crop rotation, gunpowder, steam engines, and electricity, but it's all superficial knowledge and I would not have the slightest idea in going about recreating any of those things with my shallow surface level grasp of the aforementioned subjects.
Probably has to do with the old saying don’t shit where you eat
It's pretty much going to be filled with disease and parasitic worm larvae if it's not composted.
Diseases, parasites and human waste has heavy metal which are bad for fertilizers.
>All of Africa is starving
Last famine was in Libya in 2012 I believe. There isn't much starvation in most of the place. Haiti is a shithole though.
Neat I was gonna go
>Corn
> Onions
> Green beans
> Peppers
Since that grows well where I live.
I mean, it's not like carving and bloodletting is hard to do with wild game, shit skinning a squirrel is kinda like peeling a banana, it's not hard. I imagine some person who's never done it before could just hack his way for some workable meat.
Fertilizer can diffuse into the groundwater and human feces can host a wide variety of notorious diseases and even in small concentrations could cause an epidemic via wells. Give thanks to modern water treatment.
>World has MMO stat screens
This bothers me the most. I vomit a little every time an RPG status screen pops up.
>The only thing an isekai never show is capitalism.
KonoSuba, though.
So you are not bothered by adventurer's guilds, random unexplainable monster wildlife, classes, random stupid abilities and different races also unexplained.
>Implying slaves make sense when there shit like magic
Why bother enslaving a 100 people to build a road when you can just hire one wizard for a day? Why bother with sex slaves when things like succubi exist? Slavery is inefficient compared to how easy and quick magic is to pick up in most isekai world's. Also making sure they don't run away or revolt is a pain.
>Inb4 magic collar
That just opens up the way for slave armies and evil overlords super fast.
Those overly abused cliches are still nto worse than overt video game mechanics.
>salad monster invasions with each worth a small fortune, harvested by outsourcing to expensive mercenaries
>solid gold apples grown on big turtles not constantly farmed by professionals with specific tools for the job
Man, isekai humans are fucking stupid.
>This disease caused by small creatures called bacteria
You'd have to start with a microscope first to prove your point. Also as shown in Dr. Stone, you have to get lucky and find the right mold to get penicillin or have enough chemistry know how and available chemicals to create sulfonamide.
And protestant reformation, 30 years war.
Everyday people spitting in the face of the laws of thermodynamics/gravity?
>MC knows how to refine sulpheric acid and to use cotton to make better bullets.
What about india? or are their bodies super tough since they have been enduring the shits for millenniums?
India has a massive humanitarian crisis everywhere with no infrastructure and clean water though. The Indian government fights against societal norms exactly for this reason.
It's fine as long as the setting is well-crafted. Better than everyday people talking about skills and stats and levels and status screens as part of normal life. Or the fucking item box.
Not that user, but India has so many problems and every now and then some kind of health-related crisis that the only reason they are still alive is because they have a metric ton of children, so that some can survive.
Also underage marriage for obvious reason.
nationalgeographic.com
>At least a quarter of girls age 10 to 17 in the region are married
Not shitting on your food is basically the number one way to prevent the spread of human parasites like tapeworms and ringworms. Having tapeworms and ringworms, especially as a child, does not bode well for your development.
A lot of Isekai that does it makes no sense economically. They have low food production yet maintain a huge surplus of food that allows for professional armies and a lot tradesmen
Could a group of Yea Forumsnons survive and thrive if iskai'd?
If the setting has magic bullshit, I'm sure enough of us means that we would find a way to game the fuck out of it somehow
>rotating crops
AHAHAHA how absurd!
Next you'll be telling us to wash our hands before doing surgery? Or eating citrus fruits on long sea voyages?
Is there a such thing as "good isekai"? It all seems like a mindless powerjerk.
Too broad of a question to answer.
you mean hookworms, "ringworm" isn't an actual worm, it's just a fungal growth.
We've been rotating since the bronze age user
That is just evolution taking a different path than our world. Even magic can be rationalized as making use of a power source that we cannot - on the flip side maybe they aren't able to ever harness the power of electricity or something, the atoms just work differently in that world.
But stat screens are not connected at all to nature or the living world. Unless you are specifically in a videogame, there should never be a state screen to level up at. It makes no sense from a realism perspective.
>It makes no sense from a realism perspective.
You deny the fundamental building blocks of nature readily, but get baffled at the notion of numbers popping up on a screen. Are you a catholic cardinal from 1400 AD?
>ctrl+f “tax policy”
>0 results
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
Taxation is theft, why would you bring theft to a thief free world?
its kinda cute but there every obstacle she faces ,she solves with a single attempt.
80 to 90% of medieval people were 10/7 farmers
I would watch the fuck out of a peaceful Fukuoka-style natural farming anime.
The more you change from reality in a setting, the more grounded other things have to become to be taken seriously.
If we say that you can be transported to another world, and if we want this setting to be used in a semi-standard fantasy manner like most isekai are, you have to keep that world grounded.
Changing too much separates the viewer from the setting. Unless you are deliberately going for a surreal experience then staying mostly grounded outside of your premise is the best way to keep interest going in your plot.
Making it so that the situation in that world can be explained rationally allows the reader to comprehend and then accept that it is possible to end up in a parallel world - one that is different than ours, but also one that seems like an actual world.
If we say that there are hellmonsters running around in 2015 Australia then outside of the premise that 'there are hellmonsters in 2015 Australia' the story should remain realistic. Otherwise the setting makes less and less sense and the reader can no longer relate to what is going on.
If you want to have stat screens and menus just say that they are trapped in a videogame. That solves all of your problems.
A female Dr. Stone
because it's like schrodinger's cat, or that one einstein equation the guy in that rick and morty anime has printed on his shirt
it's a clever/interesting(once) thing that fucking everyone knows, like lowering taxes increasing revenues in some situations
They should do one about croc rotation and building living machines out of alligators.
You can't really go farther from reality than getting transported into another "world" via magic/god/resurrection/etc, that's why I think it's baffling to complain about stat screens but believing "magic" is anything better.
it might be forgivable if the MC in an isekai novel had any reason to know about this particular form of crop rotation and crop rotation was already a thing in the almost invariably JRPG-esque medieval fantasy setting most of these stories take place in but instead it's always seen as some revolutionary idea that no one in the history of anything has ever thought of because the best way method a stupid writer has for making their protagonist clever is making everyone single digit IQ mouthbreathers. It's such a shame.
Stat screens are mainly an abstract of real life skill grouping that couldn't actually exist in actual people.
As an example let's say you have a strength stat of 30. Is this strength stat evenly spread throughout the body? If you're in the real world no, some people have proportionally stronger arms or legs etc.
It gets even worse when it relates to thing like intelligence or wisdom, how is there an objective stat for wisdom? Magic can be seen as a energy source, a tool, or like air but instead of making smoke when it's cold out you can maybe breath fire if the mana is right or some bullshit, but stat screens are purely by authors being so stuck in videogames that this is less fantasy and more a manga about a hacker in a MMO
don't drag your dadrock autism into the new world
Like I said before, you can think of magic as them just harnessing an energy source we cannot.
Maybe the 'Ether' as a concept actually exists and specific manipulations of that created different effects. In our reality specific manipulations of electric pulses (electron movements) are what powers a computer, and thats more impressive than what people do with magic in most settings.
Magic could be based around taking advantage of another particle or force or anything really.
the hardest would probably be refining sulfur (and even then it's not strictly necessary depending on what you're doing), though if you're not concerned about consistency you can literally make saltpeter out of your own piss
it's not really hard, it just takes a long time for the reaction to happen
If there was a physical screen in a temple or tavern rather than a floating transparent window that can be brought up anytime, I would probably complain less. Or they could get creative like Danmachi and have the stats tattooed in an ancient language to people's backs.
I get it, you -personally- don't like stat screens.
According to your -opinion- it's unnatural and breaks your suspension of disbelief.
Also according to your -opinion- magic is less impossible than stat windows.
However don't try to act as if these 2 things are anything different from a scientific standpoint, they are not. We are just born in a time where videogames heavily changed our perspectives from an early age. I just want to point out that what you are doing is having double standards and if we were to be born 10 years earlier or later then our opinions would differ.
the thing about stats screens is that it relies too heavily on manmade constructs like
>language
>numbers
>names
those things aren't civilized.
Many fantasy magic uses incantations, circles or other artificial BS.
just watch a life cycle of any parasite
when does the MC get raped?
>Born in a time when videogames changed our world perspectives from a young age
I think you didn't actually go outside often enough as a kid if you think shoving a statscreen into your daily is normal. Sure magic is weird and unnatural, at least if done right, but it still doesn't answer to the fact that
>Physical attributes are not anywhere sole enough to be just strength or dexterity
>Wisdom and intelligence as a single stat are dumb
And no I'm not having double standards for differentiating between
>If you learn to chant these words correctly from a book as well as have bat dung and spider eggs, you can chuck a fireball. Also if you don't wrong you can catch on fire
To
>If you kill a dragon you can just level magic from the exp you get and become able to cast level 88 spells.
You should be able to see the difference between these two things.
Step back, take a deep breath and re-evaluate what you think normal is.
Also take some reading comprehension courses.
I would watch it
>A statscreen that lists everything in your daily life is normal
That's dumb, and the more I stop and think about it the dumber it gets. If you disagree you could at least point it out from the points I made rather than trying to act smart about reading comprehension when you can't even read or respond to the points presented in the post above you
I did and I'm tired of repeating myself to people who misconstrue my words deliberately to fit their perspective. Casting shit out of "muh mana" by doing hand gestures, incantations or pissing circles in snow is just as stupid as a stat screen, but please do act as if you are "too smart for stat screens".
You didn't answer any of my points regarding
>Physical attributes are not anywhere sole enough to be just strength or dexterity, they are vastly more complex
>Wisdom and intelligence as a single stat are dumb
And I've come up with another issue with statscreens, EXP from kills. In real life if you want to get stronger you have to generally do strength training. But in MMOisekai all you have to do is kill something to get really strong. This is good videogame logic, but the disconnect you'd have to have from reality to think if you grind and stab a 100 bunnies you'll get stronger than say if you did a month of strength training is retarded.
Also what entity or data stores the statscreens, but that can just be handwaved by say a god of record keeping.
If you read about early America you’ll realize that just introducing the idea of crop rotation isn’t going to effect a major change. Most farmers in the late 18th century U.S. were simple hayseeds who didn’t want to change their way of doing things because an educated person told them too. That’s why Washington had to specifically recruit a Scottish farmer to run his plantation, and even that guy wouldn’t stick to the rotation if Washington didn’t constantly monitor him.
Long story short, rural people have always been idiots.
Modern farmers are pretty terrible with their rotations since they can use fertilizers and other agrochemicals as a crutch and also because many of them lease the land instead of owning it and usually don't get to manage (or even know) the rotational context of the field they use for more than a few years in a row.
At the same time research is pretty clear that sensible rotations can achieve many of the same objectives as repeatedly nuking fields with agrochemicals at a lower cost, but the patterns of aforementioned structure of land management in the West preclude implementing this on a wider scale at present.
t. agronomist
mega-satan pls
>Long story short, rural people have always been stubborn.
ftfy nigger
I never defended stats for a second, you just assumed I did I guess. Believing in magic and ridiculing stat screens in the same sentence is the same as medieval catholics believing in the bible's stories but denying the possibility of lightning not being a tool of god punishing unbelievers. Zero facts, only opinions, hence my post
And no, I'm not trying to personally attack your intelligence.
>>Isekai has slaves
>>It's ok because the MC is nice to his slaves
I never got this complain, especially when people act like being ok with slaves is something crazy.
Most people ARE ok with slaves as long as they don't see it happening. Slavery in everything but name is still happening in sweatshops and no one cares, same thing happens with illegal immigrants working in agriculture. Just pay them something, then force them to buy food and shelter from you.
The biggest one is prostitution will illegal immigrants.
Most people don't really mind slavery.
They were smart tbqh, most 'modernization' in farming followed the pattern of aggressively pushing the need for it, getting the farmers in heavy debt to carry it out (buying machines, hiring advisors), then taking over the land when they couldn't pay the debts, which either happened naturally or could be forced via pricing (as the people carrying this out usually dealt with trade, and could lower the going rates to an extent if they could profit by bankrupting the farmer and taking over their land) or by legal means (destroying the commons infrastructure bas happened in England).
So it's subsist using the old way or get tricked into paying for modernising the land then getting it taken away.
Stat screens are dumb because 1. one of the worst ways of "telling not showing" 2. they represent an objectification of something that is needed in tabletop and videogames but is not needed in books/anime.
That's all there is to it. It's not even videogames' fault to, those stats are just shounen powerlevels with even less shame
It's also true that at first rotation happened because you kinda needed to separate your crops.
Take your field, plant 3 different things, and you are safer than having one single crop.
It wasn't really for the sake of the land.
I don't know what that means
In our world we throw some objects together in a certain fashion and make them do entirely different things. We mix flammable and temp sensitive materials together to create explosives, we use a set up of metal and acid to create and store the energy to move electrons and then use those electrons to make things happen, apply certain chemicals to a material and completely different properties are created - mix an hydrophobic explosive metal and a toxic highly reactive gas and you get the most common ingredient in cookery.
Magic isn't really any different than that. If we assume that there is a definite energy source for a spell or even more 'realistic' a ritual, than manipulating that energy source to change the properties of something is entirely in line with our understanding of the world. If I use mana to alter something in the same way that I could theoretically do so in our world thru different methods, than magic is acceptable. Even things as esoteric as animation of inanimate objects can be justified as being analogous to electric circuitry and programming in our world.
What is the real difference between magically creating explosives and chemically creating explosives so long as the same amount of energy is used in both, anyhow? So long as the general laws of physics are followed and the magic system has definite rules than a rational person can accept that magic exists in this setting. When magic is totally unexplained and unjustified then people have issues accepting it.
We don't really know how it started, crop rotation (primarily between legumes and cereals) predates written history by thousands of years.
It fits in the story, which isn't an isekai to begin with.
>stat screens exist
>meaning that understanding anything about your life you have to be able to read
>but people didn't create the stat screens
>how do they know to read the screens without reference point
that too. how often do isekai bother to show this aspect of rapid change?
>energy
magic usually breaks this concept very hard.
Because they played age of empires once like all of us, and when the isekai is about town building they think in terms of videogame skills that can be unblocked
I'm less bothered by that stuff than by the complete lack of understanding for how and why historical systems functioned, and that more often than not they were actually very effective and perfectly utilized the means at the time.
Most of the time you couldn't just transplant individual later solutions simply because the manufacturing / infrastructural base to support them doesn't exist and they are simply not viable in the new (old?) context.
Only because the concepts you're trying to apply don't account for it.
You are pulling out Clarke's first law to justify magic in isekai, but the same can be applied to stat screens. Both require logic to bend over and fuck itself.
Magic requires completely reworking physics from the ground up to be even remotely consistent. Usually it's just some vague bullshit about mana or something that doesn't interact with the world physically unless someone makes a scream attack.
I said something similar to this earlier in this thread. How could society advance to (and I assume medieval now because that's the average isekai) medieval levels with uber monsters, goblins, demons eating the average joe while humans still can't stop beheading each other? Absolute stupidity and hurr its magic levels of retardation.
>Magic requires completely reworking physics from the ground up to be even remotely consistent.
So would any novel type of physical interaction.
>isekai where protags insist on finding ways to develop onions sauce, mayonaise, rice, miso etc in their new world with their own food culture
It's like watching people go on vacation looking for their own respective country's cooking instead of trying out new things.
>onion
Huh, pretty sure I typed S_O_Y.
pretty sure Yu-gi-oh snatched up that one for a PS2 game
>getting isekaied from reddit to 4channel
>He doesn't know about Norton Lorist
Magic can be tied into the natural world, like I've said repeatedly.
Just say that the people in that world just so happened to tap into a power source we never did. You know there were quite a few tribes in Africa that jumped over bronze, brass, tin and the like and went from copper and stone to iron? On in Mesoamerica were they built cities on the scale of the Old World's largest with stone and copper tools?
Well in this world one can imagine that the people stumbled upon some hyper-advanced or hyper-powerful energy source but the rest of their tech is far behind ours. That's literally all you need to do to justify magic.
'These mages tap into the Ether that surrounds us and use that force to manipulate matter and energy'. That is simple to understand and coupled with proper explanations justifies the existence of magic.
Stat screens however are totally artificial. There is no basis for them in reality nor do they even accurately represent it in almost every case. You can imagine magic naturally arising in a world, doing so with stat screens is much more difficult.
>Chapter 1: Lessons about crop rotation
>Chapter 2: The crops are dead
>Chapter 3: They shanked me for my shoes
>~Fin~
i have to agree with the other guy, stat screens really are no different from magic, it’s trivial to explain them away anyway with reality warping creators or lost civilisations with advanced technology. people only dislike them because they carry the connotations and aesthetics of video games. i can’t even say they’re less creative than magic because a billion writers have used magic systems in their settings
chapter 3, but they just brush it off, it's never mentioned again, she doesn't even think about it
>>Stat screens are mainly an abstract of real life skill grouping that couldn't actually exist in actual people.
Why not? Stat screens are not all encompassing. By your logic dashboards in cars couldn't actually exist in vehicles because it doesn't cover up every trivial detail of the automobile. You're intentionally being stubborn for the sole purpose of being disagreeable.
Face facts, you're just another one of those fags who wants your fantasy to stay mystical and unscientific because you want that mystery and fantasy vibe the remain, just like how chink medicine doctors ramble excuses on acupuncture and funky medicine like mercury.
You gonna defend chink medicine now? Thought so, nobody here dares to do that on Yea Forums, even if they were a chink themselves. So stop being hypocrites.
Just man the fuck up and admit it's your own shit taste about what you want in fantasy and mystery. This is no different than the damn case of Boruto where traditional ninjas gotta deal with technology replacing them, only instead of traditional ninjas feeling threatened because of the status quo, you are feeling threatened because the world of fantasy that you've grown attached to will resemble the modern world more. That's fucking it, that's the real reason you're arguing, that's your real feelings on the matter, and everyone who isn't blind or missing half their brain can see it.
And there's nothing wrong with that, it's your shit taste, and you are entitled to it. Many people even feel the same way, or even if they disagree they can appreciate such a view. So stop arguing about semantics and reasoning that isn't even true to what you actually feel, cause it's all an excuse and that makes you no different than a politician who campaigns for free. For FREE.
Just man up bitch. This shit is merely subjective, and if you are too much of a pussy to defend your subjective views subjectively then chop off your dick right now cause it's impotent.
I think what bugs me is how so many writers got this strange idea that premodern society where all a bunch of mongs when they're the ones who invented more with less than any society that came after. I feel like if anyone DID get isekai'd and started acting like hot shit because of this everyone else would just look at him like the tard he is, maybe hand him a cookie and go back to building a fucking canal.
Farting thunder makes a great deal more sense than having a built-in graphical interface that quantifies fucking everything and creates information out of nowhere. They're several levels of abstraction apart, and every single anime, novel, manga, or any other form of media that has in-universe game mechanics is irredeemable trash bar none.
Didn't that basically happen in the beginning of SAO? I definitely remember something about "muh dual wield" but I admit I dropped it pretty quick.
Lets not go around accusing people of being american, now. Most complaints I've seen haven't been
>there's something bad in a manga, please someone protect my virgin eyes
but that it's a lazy way of attaching an unconditional dicklicker to the MC with no risk of him being shot down or otherwise getting hurt. It's a wankfic power dynamic, just look at trash like shield hero. And it's just way too overdone at this point.
it's a native isekai
nobody wants you people here
fuck off
Why is it that in worlds where magic exists, mages/sorcerers/summoners/psychics arent in absolute control of everything? How can a plebian even match their might? Why would a Superior Being be enslaved to a magically blind normie?
Take the idea of strength for example. What is strength? Strength is the ability of you muscles to pull off your skeleton and achieve movement against some resistance.
You cannot measure something like that for one's entire body with one stat. Even if you say that stats can only be increased by doing rather than by just experience points, you still end up in a situation where just doing squats makes it so that your entire body is stronger as a whole. This is too separated from reality. Its no longer a measure of a person's actual strength.
Or the scenario that wisdom and intelligence are often if not always one stat. These are two separate but linked concepts and measuring them together doesn't capture the actual idea accurately. Even then theoretically knowing a lot about one or two topics would be enough to increase one's intelligence stat, when someone who's done that irl is actually pretty limited on overall wisdom and intelligence due to their specialization.
Then there's things like charisma, which are built around one's traits and personality rather than anything that can be taken on its own. Its entirely possible to be very uninteresting and have a high charisma stat in these settings, which is missing the idea of what charisma is.
The human body and personality is not made up of statistics and attempting to measure it so is very inaccurate and unsatisfactory.
Because it gives +150 food to farm, which is very valuable to conserve wood since it allows farms to last longer
This is mainly due to writers/mangaka not being smart enough to properly balance their world. You either have to keep magic as strong as it normally is, but limit it to a small group of people. Or make it generally weaker than is normally depicted.
Otherwise like you said the world being ruled by anyone not a magic user doesn't make sense unless you are some kind of medieval democracy.
Anyone who wants stat screen to be gone is my bro
We already have min/maxed real life. Magick is a new realm.
You get isekai'd with your 4channel friends.
How fucked are you?
How long until you get an harem?
Describing a fight without and
>If the Hero's strikes were like a relentless sledgehammer, the Demon Lord's were like an flashes of burning lightning.
>Even the Hero's eagle-like eyes could no longer follow her fists, which had turned to flashes of light. The Demon Lord's movements were now so instantaneous as to be entirely invisible.
>Fortunately, the Demon Lord is still taking the Hero lightly. Or rather, she is lost in the joy of her first duel in twelve thousand years. Controlling the direction of the Demon Lord's punches by deliberately leaving fatal openings, so as to then parry or evade them, is still within the Hero's capabilities.
>Of course, if he does not, he will die.
Describing a fight with and
>"Secret move! !"
>As soon as the fight started.
>I used my strongest [Skill].
>With this-!
>But not only was my EX-rank secret technique powered by my 9001 STR blocked, it was _turned back_ by the girl's frail arms.
>"Kuahahahaa! Did you think a mere EX rank strike was enough to break my technique and my 9000AGI? How naive! Oraoraoraoraora!!"
>She starts throwing J*jo-like punches at me!
>"Kh!"
>This is bad.
>"O wind, grant your all-encompassing presence unto my senses! !"
>I cast and expand my spatial awareness. With this, I can at least control where her punches come from-!
Fighting when yelling skill's name is as old as the Earth. Jojo do it all the fucking time.
Read how DnD players do it. They roll dices and then describe how the situation unfolds
>carry the connotations
That's an awkward way to say that they're a 100% straight ripoff from video game GUIs.
And you forgot to mention they add nothing, and are a perfect tell with not one false positive as of yet for powerlevel wank shonenshit. That might have a little something to do with people disliking it. Literally every single work featuring it being complete and utter shit.
But that author did researched
That's what they meant, that they want more authors to do the research like that one did.
Because realistically it is one of if not the only thing that people in the modern era would be able to replicate if sent back in time/another world.
Why are Chinese isekai writers so obsessed with making their MC the recipient of massive class-based privilege and secret hidden cheat powers straight from birth and then acting like it's all okay that there are people starving to death in the streets from their genetic inadequacy because the MC "worked hard" their entire life even though there are thirty other characters who've also worked hard their entire lives and the only reason the MC is better is that they got some fucking hyperbolic time chamber in their brains that allowed them to train since they were literally in the fucking womb?
Because that's how China works?
You don't need to say it out loud when showing it visually you sperg
>defending stat screen
wojakposter living up to their reputation
way to go, champ, you fucking idiot
Because it's one of the easiest things to do to advance a civilization. So easy that even a middle schooler could explain and implement it. Other stuff would be stuff like printing (slow) or steam engine (fairly complicated). For shit like that you need characters like Senkuu who lives for science, but those aren't your average high school kid that usually get transported into another world.
Wrong, dipshit. Feudalism is Mercantilism Rising.
>deliberately leaving fatal openings
>Eye of the Mind (Wind)
Fucking fatefags
So I skimmed a wikipedia article and sounds like they where doing crop rotation as early as 6000 bc. They didn't know WHY it worked but they knew it worked.
there's economic incentive not to stuff all your eggs up your asshole
>Read how DnD players do it. They roll dices and then describe how the situation unfolds
They say it because they have to communicate to the DM what skills they want to use. And a good DM will narrate how it goes depending on the dice roll.
>I want to cast magic missile
>Good roll: You send a bolt of pure energy hurdling towards the beast, a bright light exploding on impact illuminating the dark dungeon halls.
>Bad roll: Your magic fizzles out barely registering so much as a mosquito bite on the ravenous monster. The only thing you succeeded in was getting the monsters attention as it know looks upon you with hungry deadly eyes.
Saying your attack name is a means to an end to make the game mechanically viable. It's not a requisite for story telling. The big problem with including game mechanics into the setting is that it makes the story look like a game which dilutes the tension and drama by making your fiction look all the more fictional. Even your make believe is make believe.
Is there an isekai where the MC doesn't just stop at basic technological advancements, but completely and uncompromisingly industrializes the means of production and builds the foundation for a socialist restructuring of society?
Connecticut Yankee
pretty much every isekai with an actual story has the MC fuck up at some point, yeah
Fucking retard.
Capitalism always fucks up, I agree.
Stow it Engles
In all my DnD sessions, my character has NEVER named his attacks and shout them while performing them. Nor has anyone I played with done that.
So I'm gonna guess you never played DnD.
There are none, because that would require skills to write and draw when it's much easier to just add harems and forced drama.
You'd all die of starvation without tendies and gibs.
Jojo is one of the only seinen that does that. It is a bizarre adventure. Also the characters almost never yell the name of attacks.
The Conrad Stargard series from the 80s is about a Commie bloc military engineer accidentally sent to medieval Poland where he ends up trying to stop the Mongol invasion of Eastern Europe which is due to happen in ten years.
It's still a bullshit power fantasy although the tech bits are nice and I liked how in the end the Mongols still almost wreck their shit through superior strategy, sack their capital, and capture samples of all the new tech for reverse engineering before retreating.
fucking thank you
I'm surprised that Doctor Stone hasn't brought up crop rotation yet in the Manga.
Shit, now I wanna read about hyperteched Mongol Utopia.
One of the biggest problems I see with fantasy these days is people who are just completely unable to separate the necessity of game components and the actual narrative. For a game to work you just have to "ignore" certain rules and limitations. A character may GROW through hardship but that number level is only a representation it's not a diegetic part of the story. They grew because they worked hard, not because they got 1000 XP.
Bitch Africa is one of those continents that never got the wheel right outside of 4 settlements.
Many didn't develop agriculture and animal husbandry was often destroyed by tribal warlords killing the few individuals that knew how to do it just to pillage and eat everything.
Africa was the ultimate Shithole.
you’re arbitrarily applying realism rules to ostensibly magical stat screens while giving other forms of magic free pass. for all you know, stats could simply be a symptom or representation of some reality bending, universal magic system that supplements your muscles with super strength or allows your neurons to fire and communicate faster
based and horse archer pilled
is it available in English?
Okay, hold it right there. You're an idiot. When people say "REALISM" they don't always mean OUR WORLD REALISM. What they mean is creating a believable environment with it's own sense of logic and consistent. What magic can and cannot do are key. How all these elements actually effect the world in question. You can't just drop something into the middle of the setting and say LOLMAGIC and call it at that. It is SUSPENSION of disbelief not REMOVAL.
Any isekai where super smug or stoic bad guy that obviously been planning for his evil plan for a long time BTFO by MC the first time they meet instead the bad guy's having too much plot armor that he manage to get away or survive from MC despite the difference of power between them?
It was written by an American so yeah. Fair warning: it's a guilty pleasure and full of the MC broing it up with utter asshole noblemen and fucking village girls of questionable age.
Doctor Stone is a strange case, on one hand it covers very specific advancements that are often ignored (lathe, loom, textile, antibiotics) but at the same time it skips over basic advancements like architecture and food production. The characters still live in huts and eat mostly hunter-gatherer products. There is only one chapter on farming with limited scientific knowledge involved. The characters were desperate to have a cook that can prepare tasty food despite the fact they should have a very limited choice of food. They only invented bread and some horrible knock-off pseudo-ramen. They didn't even industrialize the fishing industry, which should be the no-brainer choice in that situation.
People can't survive with only fish dude.
>Go to adventurer guild with your harem of yamato nadeshiko beauties to register
>Suddenly, a wild adventurer appears!
>"Hey you girls, I am the son of this place's lord, and also a A rank adventurer! Come join my party and abandon that weak looking boy!"
>Adventurer tries to grab main waifu but moralfag protag interferes, adventurer gets irritated as fuck and shouts like a retard
>"YOU ARE COURTING DEATH!"
>Onlookers gossip about "there is no way this weak-looking dude could possibly beat a A rank adventurer, the match is already decided! No need to even look!"
>Moralfag protag sends the adventurer flying in one punch, all the onlookers go "HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE!? He beat a A rank adventurer! That can't possibly be! Who is that guy?"
>Old man, seemingly a beggar, but actually is the nation's king, who watches at the scene amused, scoffs at the unconcious adventurer
>"He had eyes but couldn't see mount Fuji."
>Suddenly the voice of the adventurer's father, who is the noble lord of the territory resounds through the entire city
>"HOW DARE YOU HURT MY SON! THERE WILL BE NO RECONCILIATION! I'LL MURDER YOU, AND ENSLAVE ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES!"
>Moralfag protag goes on to expose the entire noble's wrongdoing because of "MUH everyone that oppose me must be evil and corrupt!"
>As moralfag is about to deliver his final chuuni line to the noble, the noble cries
>"Fool! Our family is just small fry in comparison to the noble we are subordinate to, which is the the Y Noble, who are in turn subordinate to the Z Noble! You'll never have a peaceful life again!"
>Moralfag protag shrugs
>"Shikatanai!"
>And so moralfag protag finishes off the noble but never gets into conflict with Y noble (or Z noble, because the king saw his action and power and make him noble ranked higher than those families)
t. 90% of japs isekai novels
reading comprehension
Thermometers, speed-o-meters, scales with weight-display, etc. should also be "unrealistic" and break suspension of disbelief for you for quantifying aspects of reality, then. I mean why is it so hard to believe that numbers are assigned to certain aspects of reality. We already quantify distances, sizes, areas, spaces, time, temperature, etc. so why is it such a stretch for a person's vitality, agility, etc. to measured too? The only reason we don't is due lack of tools to do that, but fantasy settings got stuff like "appraisal skill/magic" so they don't have that limitation. Heck, even we DO measure such things at time, e.g. we measure STR by how heavy weights we can lift, VIT by body-mass-index, STA by how long/far we can run, etc.
So what exactly makes it so hard to believe in a fantasy-setting with stuff like appraisal?
The actual one:
>Go to adventurer guild with your harem of yamato nadeshiko beauties to register.
>Suddenly, a wild C rank adventurer appears!
>"Hey you girls! You should ditch a weak looking guy like him and join my party instead!"
>Adventurer tries to grab main waifu but MC interferes, adventurer gets irritated as fuck and shouts like a retard
>"YOU ARE DEAD KID!"
>Onlookers gossip about "there is no way this weak-looking boy could possibly beat the C rank adventurer, he is MOU SHINDEIRU!"
>Moralfag protag sends adventurer flying in one punch, all the onlookers go "NANI!? He beat the C rank adventurer! MASAKA! Who is that guy?"
>Old man, seemingly a beggar, but actually the nation's king, who watches at the scene amused, evaluates moralfag protag and his relationship with the princess who is one of aforementioned beauties
>"Hmm, strength-wise that's quite good, but I could never let a man have my daughter until he beats me personally!"
>Suddenly the voice of the adventurer's father, who is the lord of this territory resounds through the entire city
>"HOW DARE YOU EMBARASS MY SON! I'LL HAVE YOUR HEAD AND WILL SELL YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR PARTY INTO SLAVERY!"
>Moralfag protag goes on to expose the entire noble's wrongdoing because of "MUH evil corrupt nobles!"
>As moralfag is about to deliver the judgement, the noble cries
>"Fool! Our Viscount X family is just small fry in comparison to the noble family we are subordinate to, which is the Marquis Y family, who are in turn direct subordinate to the royal family! You'll never have a peaceful life again!"
>Moralfag protag shrugs
>"you'll lose if you mind it"
>And so moralfag protag delivers judgement to the Viscount X but never gets into conflict with Y family because he accidentally saves the nation anyway and becomes a noble/royalty ranked even higher than Y
t. 90% of nip isekai novels
better than my pasta except for the Shikatanai.
9/10, need loli slave harem and crop rotation
isekai writer sounding smart
>dude crop rotation. and also uhhh you make a pump for the well and now you always have water without using a bucket on a rope!
Meow Meow writer sounding smart
>dude the water in the fishbowl intensifies the tiny beam of sunlight that passes through it and it becomes strong enough to melt the soft putty your blacksmith/metallurgist father plugged up the cabinet's keyhole with.
A more honest approach:
youtu.be
I want to fuck that cat.
Shikatanai indeed sounds better, but "you'll lose if you mind it" is the standard catchphrase about common-sense breaking OP MCs. You know like:
>"How did you do that? This makes no sense! Everything I believed to be true is now proven to be false!"
>"Oh I just... well you'll lose if you mind it! tehee-pero~"
>"You... well it's ok... it's ok... hehehehe, yea that's right. It's MC-kun after all, yes that's it! From now on I'll just say 'it's MC-kun after all' everytime something 'strange' happens, yup, my coping mechanism is now perfect!"
how does he deal with the church?
Africa is a huge continent you know
Heck Egypt is in Africa
"Africa" is almost always shorthand for "Sub-Saharan Africa". Not that it really matters to most people anyway.
RIP Azik
>Many didn't develop agriculture and animal husbandry was often destroyed by tribal warlords killing the few individuals that knew how to do it just to pillage and eat everything.
This isn't quite true since for the bulk of African history human life was very valuable. Worst you had was wars as a show of potential force where maybe 1-3 people died. A tribe losing a large portion of their male workforce was devastating to both sides.
That was until European crops came around and increased the crop yields, meaning you needed less farmers to feed a village. That combined with the formation of the Zulu tribe that was perfectly content to kill people who didn't join with them is when Africa started to get very bloody very quickly. The time of chaos caused by the Zulus warmongering ways is referred to as the "crushing."
What also happened around this time was the mapping of Africa and the creation of dividing lines that did not exist before. Sometimes forcing enemy tribes to live in the same country or split up friendly related tribes from each other.
>This isn't quite true since for the bulk of African history human life was very valuable.
Of course Africans think human life is valuable. That's why they do slavery. My favorite aspect revisionist history is the funny part where less than 0.1% of african-born slaves ended in european-centric civilization but we all pretend that african slavery isn't a thing.
Saltpeter can be made from urine and grass. It's super easy to make once you know what it's made of.
>This entire process is long and is greatly influenced by the temperature of your climate. In the south it will be much quicker than in Michigan! In the south it might take 7 months. Up north it can take a year.
This is the part that itches. The process itself requires simple tools but if takes a year to produce something then it can't be called easy or convenient.
>Statscreens are like car indicator lights
I can't upgrade my car by running over and killing people user. My car doesn't having horsepower doesn't take into account things like load or suspension and how that can affect driving either. In fact using a car dashboard to compare to a statscreens is also dumb because the main point of a car dashboard is to tell you
>How fast you're going
>Mechanical issues
>How much fuel you need
I've never seen a car dashboard try to tell you how much horsepower you have or how it can be upgraded and you can gain gain new driving skills like drifting just by driving it in a normal fashion to level up
>I never defended stats even once
>I'm just doing my best defending statscreens
That's stupid, and you still haven't addressed how leveling up differs from actual improvement in reality vs video game logic
It took Senku forever to implement agriculture. He spent months at Ishigami village, but he didn't bother teaching everyone how to grow crops until they'd beaten Tsukasa and taken over his territory.
They also didn't implement proper animal husbandry until months after they started agriculture.
It's like Senku doesn't realize that having a food surplus is what allowed humans to create civilization in the first place. Everything else is secondary.
>ZA WARUDO
?
It takes a year to get started, sure, but saltpeter plantations were really common back in the day. The Swiss used to pay a percentage of their taxes in saltpeter, so every farm and household had a compost bed they maintained for the crown.
The manga doesn't care about food production because everyone is mysteriously buff and healthy and sometimes even superhuman.
Don't forget that Byakuya could have used one of the 100 stories to teach his descendants that farming was possible, but he couldn't be bothered to do so, thus dooming them to millenia of hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
Well they are about to clash with Tsukasa, no time for that.
Also the animal around before they found the goats are lion and bear.
>everyone is mysteriously buff and healthy and sometimes even superhuman.
Inbred mutations to hell and back.
>Thermometers, speed-o-meters, scales with weight-display, etc. should also be "unrealistic
Those are objective measurements used to designate a man made concept of a physical phenomenon. You are making the mistake of thinking if one thing measures something and something else measures something, they're the same.
Let's use a weight scale as an example
A weight scale you put something on the scale and it tells you a measurement on a human designed unit of the pressure gravity exerts on it.
Now let's take strength. Please tell me a human measurement or unit that can ac
encompass all the thing strength is related to in a physical setting. There doesn't exist such a unit cause it's too difficult to find a complete score, the closest we have is the Wilk's score used by weightlifters and even they admit that is under specified circumstances using a specific form and on barbells only.
Although really this user brings up a better point than anyoneManga is a visual medium which makes it stupid easy to do show not tell, which makes it worse when it does happen. Also can't recall any isekai except the spider girl on where stats mattered worth a damn
the confederates had a guide about multiple methods to make saltpeter since they needed all the gunpowder they could get.
Reminder that the slave meme (and to a minor degree the maid fetish) carries a different connotation in the east in comparison to the west with all the human trafficking stuff brought by the euros and the black vs white shit.
Neat.
He's attacking it moron
>DUDE JAPANESE FOOD IS THE GREATEST SHIT IN THE UNIVERSE, EVERY ANTAGONIST SHOULD EAT THIS AND ALLY WITH ME
I said almost never. The yelling in Jojo fights mostly involve ORA ORA ORA, MUDA MUDA, WANNABE, or some italian words (some of them nonsensical). The World is the name of a stand and doesn't specifically refer to stopping time. However the catchphrase that follows it, "this time is only mine", is sometimes said during time stop and could be compared to the concept to yelling an attack.
EMERALD SPLASH!
That one is a proper example yes. Only took two tries.
Low tech farming is a step big BACKWARDS compared to hunter-gathering in terms of quality of nutrition and requires much more labour. Its advantage is supporting a higher DENSITY of population, which means agriculturalists can wipe out hunter-gatherers by vastly outnumbering them, but they're still malnourished manlets in comparison.
The village has all of Japan to themselves, they have no reason to engage in agriculture. Even if they were to do it, the most sensible approach for them would very extensive - burn down a forest, grow crops on the newly fertile ground for a couple of seasons, burn down a different forest and so on.
Assuming the writer knows what he's doing Senku is mostly setting up farming for experimental purposes and for the future and many more people being un-stoned. For Ishigami village itself farming makes very little sense.
Not the guy you're responding to. While I agree more with him and the sentiment that status screens in isekai stories are dumb, I understand your point about how we assign value to aspects of reality.
But my hang up is the fact that many stories never try to explain the status screen. Once the status screen appears, once the character see it, they completely understand it and what it represents. Worse the story assumes the audience understands the status screen as well (which just further highlights the gaminess of the story). If these stories had better in world and in depth explanation of the status screen and what each value represented, they would be more acceptable.
An example I can think of was brought up earlier in the thread, Danmachi. In that story characters have stats, but they are more believable and consistent with the world in the story because they are explained thoroughly. The status screen is called the Falna and are tattooed on the characters' back. It is a power granted to them by the gods in the story, and they must gather excellia to raise their status and get stronger. Just by explaining the way status screen and giving it justification within the world it becomes a hundred times more acceptable.
That's actually a good point and I agree with you. My biggest issue with the village is how they have this super defensive terrain despite being the only humans alive anywhere. Maybe there was a civil war once.
I suppose they built it there so they can see dangerous wild beasts trying to get into the village. The beast does need to cross the bridge and can easily be seen.
These works are for people who actually play video games why would we care about being more acceptable to normalfags? Danmachi shit is retarded why would a god even be able to lock the ability to see ink on someone’s back and even have ways to do it improperly so that others can still see it? Only good it does is being able to see Ais’s back.
>Low tech farming is a step big BACKWARDS compared to hunter-gathering in terms of quality of nutrition
Absolutely false. The food is unreliable, weak in calorie content and very unsafe. Hunted animals are full of germs. For the majority of human coexistence with nature, eating a pig would kill you. They don't do that anymore only because we modified what nature normally offers. Surviving on hunter-gatherer food is catastrophic for civilization.
>Even if they were to do it, the most sensible approach for them would very extensive - burn down a forest
Jesus christ what the fuck am I reading. You vaguely heard that a forest fire is good for the soil and you went a mile in that direction and assumed that the first step of an agricultural revolution is mass burning, and you legitimatetely believe that only you are smart enough to realize it?
The worst offender still is schrodinger's cat
They are stat screens there is nothing to explain, do I need to explain how to wear pants?
>full of the MC broing it up with utter asshole noblemen and fucking village girls of questionable age
youtube.com
If they are clever engineers they can tweak the construction of the bridge so that most animals are physically unable to cross it. Something like a cattle gate. It would prevent animal attacks but the major advantage would be to prevent large scavengers (foxes, raccoons, bunnies, wild dogs) from getting into a food storage. Sadly it won't stop rats.
I did not accuse anyone of being american. It wasn't my intention.
difficult? just make a bunch of bat roosting boxes and harvest guano
What are you talking about? Meat is just protein (with the calorie content of carbs) and fat. It's massively nutritious. And we do have the figures on height. Wasn't until something like the early 1800's that we caught up to the cave-dwelling, shitflinging, literal fucking spear chuckers in terms of height. Farming was dogshit for quality of life and saw early adopters lose something like 6 inches of height. On top of hunter-gatherers already not being of that impressive stature for our fatass selves.
it's because bokujyou monogatari is popular here for many years
>You get isekai'd with your 4channel friends.
Probably will kill them before they do something stupid.
I minmax into poison immediately and gas everyone, notin personel.
I then abandon my humanity to get demon wings and fly away to powerlevel and rape.
Slightly strange comparison because they aren't bad in the same ways, but I can't ever disagree with an exceptional hatred for it.
>You gonna defend chink medicine now? Thought so
you're embarrassing yourself
>Jesus christ what the fuck am I reading. You vaguely heard that a forest fire is good for the soil and you went a mile in that direction and assumed that the first step of an agricultural revolution is mass burning, and you legitimatetely believe that only you are smart enough to realize it?
Nigger people do this in places like Brazil to this day. I'm an agronomist.
My point wasn't about making these stories more acceptable to normalfags, rather that these authors should make a better attempt and blending these blatant video game conventions into the world of their stories. Sure if the world is literally a video game world, sure a status screen will make sense there. But if the author is attempting to create a serious fantasy story, isekai or not, and expects readers to take it seriously, they better explain that shit and why it is consistent, and fits in the world.
Basically I want authors to put more effort into fitting status screens into their stories if they are going to have them.
>Meat is just protein
Yes and animals don't naturally have a lot of it. An animal you hunt will have between 10% to 30% of the meat/fat of a farmed animal. That's just the size, the quality also suffer to the point of causing sickness, which means losing additional calorie content due to puking and diarrhea. Many animals found in nature are just skin and bone, not even worth attempting to eat. Some will always make you sick. All civilization starts from farming. The difference between farming and not farming is the difference between a population going from 10k people to 100k people in 100 years, compared to going from 10k people to 11k people without farming. Look up the population growth of tribal population and then come back to me if you still want to argue.
Only third world countries practice mass crop burning and it is not desirable at all.
1.Clover
2.wheat
3. Jackie Chan
Damn it!
Boeing and RyanAir are now lying together in the bed they made for themselves.
You'd have to take this question at literal face value to give a meaningful answer. As in, "could a group" rather than "a given group"; just the possibility of it under ideal circumstances. And the answer is yes and yes, because there are users of Yea Forums with incredibly, incredibly specific skillsets that only rarely get mentioned because of their irrelevance to the subject of Anime & Manga.
Because there are probably like 1000 people in the entire world who could actually make a firearm from scratch that works and not fucking die in the process. Just about anyone who finishes reading this post got whisked to fantasy Europe and wanted to make guns, most of them would get stumped on the materials, how to get them, the proportions or how to mix them safely. The rest would kill themselves trying to recreate some shit they read online because almost no one has the advanced metallurgical know-how and skill to actually forge a gun
>Those are objective [...] specific form and on barbells only.
All of that can be explained by appraisal magic/skill, which is basically the magic version of a CT scan, only even better, so I see no problems about this. Perhaps "luck" stats might seem weird, but hey, magic already got tons of esotheric aspects anyway, so not really that unusal for it to be included among all the other occult stuff.
>Although really this user brings up a better point than anyone
That's a 100% meta argument and is unrelated to any potential in-universe explanations that might exist, e.g. the appraisal results show up "in the form most familiar to the user", e.g. RPG stats for isekai'd people, livestock for those from a ranch, crops for farmers and magic circles of different complexities for live-long wizards. I do agree that if it's otherwise a excessively low effort "open status" with zero explanations case, then it's indeed lame lazy writing, but it's not a general rule. That meta argument of "it's like a game, so it's always bad in a fantasy world" is just a case of association fallacy anyway and not even worth discussing.
>Manga is a visual medium which makes it stupid easy to do show not tell, which makes it worse when it does happen. Also can't recall any isekai except the spider girl on where stats mattered worth a damn
Of these "isekai manga" 95% or so are adaptations of LNs though, which are text-based. To be fair, the manga should take care to "port" it in a way that fits manga if possible, with admittedly most (WN->)LN->manga adaptations fail to do most of the time, baring exceptions like Slime, which only ever lists a single power-system as a "list", which are the notable Evolutions and all the Skills (and only in the WN/LN), but these are thoroughly and convincingly explained in-universe and there are no numerical stats (WN had an "energy value", but it was removed in the LN). Meanwhile the manga adaptated the material perfectly for visuals.
Dust Bowl was also contributed in large part by the 30s being a crushingly hot and dry decade in the US.
It was ridiculous when kirk did it to beat the gorn
It's a perfectly serviceable and very low-labour approach provided your population density is low and people have done it all over the world for thousands of years.
Ishigami people have all of Japan if not the world to themselves.
What you say isn't wrong. I wasn't saying that "status screens can't be presented badly". I was only saying that " 'status screens = always and without exceptions shit' is false".
>Hunted animals are full of germs.
...and humanity had stronger immune systems as a result. I mean if what you said is the case, then all carnivore species would already all be long dead by now.
>'status screens = always and without exceptions shit' is false"
that's a nice, empty statement
You want some russian isekai novels, they exist and they're fucking insane.
It is not serviceable. No modern country do this. The long term disadvantages are great.
en.wikipedia.org
>The consequences of slash-and-burn techniques for ecosystems are almost always destructive
>When biomass is extracted even for one harvest of wood or charcoal, the residual soil value is heavily diminished for further growth of any type of vegetation.
>Large-scale erosion will usually ensue
>An example of desertification, and no further growth of any type may arise for generations.
>Slash-and-char is an alternative that alleviates some of the negative ecological implications. However, the endgame - unsustainability - is the same as for slash-and-burn.
>unsustainability
>unsustainability
>unsustainability
>In industrialized regions, including Europe and North America, the practice was abandoned
Senku is supposed to recreate civilization, not reproduce its mistakes.
Slavery in everything but name is not happening in sweatshops or on US farms. Factories and other workplaces with poor conditions are a necessary first step towards getting ones with safer conditions. You can't build a maximally modernized, automated and air conditioned MRI factory in the middle of Papua New Guinea which isn't even 30% electrified and not run your enterprise straight into the ground. Sweatshops happened in the West in the earlier decades of industrial revolution; they'll happen in other places as they get out of grueling pre-industrial poverty. Farm work is extremely low margin and labor intensive and isolated from other parts of society by its nature, but the illegal workers are free to leave the same many of them came: walking. And many seasonal farm workers that might do berry farms in Michigan for a couple months, bell peppers the next, and so on do own their own car and go where they please.
Where slavery is still happening is in places like the UAE where migrant workers are invited, have their travel papers taken away, and are forced to work and live in ghettos with an arbitrary debt from "travel fees" or what have you put on their shoulders. They're straight up forbidden to leave because the Middle East is still backwards and barbarous with debtors' prisons and shit.
no shit it's unsustainable, that's why you pack up and leave
and of course literally torching the entire fucking ecosystem isn't good for it, that's now what you were talking about, that's not what anyone was talking about
it's low labor
that's all, that's all anyone's said, that's all he's argued. It's a low-effort, lazy way of growing quite a bit of food. Not that it's great if you want to stay in one place. Not that it's the best in terms of yield per acre. Not that it keeps fucking pandas fucking.
Just that in terms of labor in - food out, it's efficient, and they've got everything they need for it(a whole lot of space to pack up and leave to), you illiterate mongrel.
Ishigami village is not a modern civilization. The question was why did Senku's dad teach them agriculture.
You came to an incorrect conclusion. If what I said is true, that does not mean carnivores would not exist. That means they live in poor conditions. It's true. They won't create civilization. You need extra resources to create a civilization, which which you don't get if you don't farm. I illustrated my point by comparing growth, by saying that a hunting population can have a growth of 10k to 11k in the same period that a farming civilization goes from 10k to 100k. It cannot be said that I argue that surviving on hunting automatically causes extinction, I say exactly right here that the meat eaters survived, albeit poorly. If I wanted to argue that a carnivore way of life causes automatic extinction (?) then why do I say the strict opposite, that they survived?
>Just that in terms of labor in - food out, it's efficient
It's not. It's really not. I don't understand why I need to repeat this in so many worlds. No modern country do this. It's not sustainable, it's not efficient, it's not useful, it's not smart. Farmers don't this. Farmers don't want this. Yes, that includes a farmer in Senku's situation. I'll give you a little hint for deductive reasoning. If nobody in a modern country do something, if we're talking about a practice that was completely phased out of industrial existence, it's because it was a bad idea.
It's something they learned without any effort and can spout off and act as if they did any research. Crop rotation has been around for millennia, though it was improving all the time and very rudimentary at the time. Crop yields from ~800 AD were around 1:2 to 1:3 ratios which meant there was very little spare food left over after the nobles and churches got their share. Around 60% of the yield was used for either taxes or as seeds for next year, leaving only 40% to the farmers. After the 9th century is when crop rotation started resembling the method in OP's picture where they began rotating, beans onto wheat fields and allowing them to fallow, sometimes letting cattle graze on them, but what I can't see is where they mention that this was done using three separate fields and allowed the harvesting of three separate crops per year. Also I doubt there's a mention that the true MVP was the heavy plow and appropriate harnesses for beasts of burden being developed which allowed for such sophisticated field arrangements. This allowed them crop yeilds around 1:5 or as high as 1:7 depending on the crop. And around the 14th century they had gotten as high as 15 bushels of wheat per acre. (For perspective, modern farms average around 70 - 75)
Considering this is from an isekai I'm going to go ahead and assume that there are massive centralized cities despite them being apparently stuck in a 8th to 9th century level of technology, even though such a thing could not physically exist until the advent of better farming techniques because there simply wasn't enough food to go around as over 90% of the population had to be farmers just to feed themselves. Cities only arose as food became more abundant, and trade as we think of it only arose from the freedom that better food supplies offered and people could actually leave the farm and pursue other things without needing to worry about starvation.
It all starts from the availability of food.
>Slavery in everything but name is not happening in sweatshops or on US farms
that's because it's been rebranded as 'human trafficking'
en.wikipedia.org
Is it? I could likewise say that farming just neccessiates infrastructure far more than hunting&gathering does and only due to that leads to civilisation instead of "because germs".
They are not!Etrusker and the MC is turning them into "not!Romans+".
It's perfectly sustainable provided your population density is very low. Forest fires are normal, there are even animals and plants specialized in exploiting post-forest-fire conditions whose populations have suffered in areas of high density human habitation because we stop even natural forest fires for our purposes.
>what is rome with 500K-1 million population cities
Nigger, they have magic too so the agriculture is fine plus the huge monster and beast meats.
Magic can make water and food too, most famine in isekai is due to war and corruption.
Tell me you didn't just conflate Rome at its peak with 9th century Europe.
And yes, the classic, "It doesn't work in practicality so it just works because magic" If I didn't make it clear, I haven't read this shit and am just broadly criticizing.
name one modern farm where land is not a constraint
You could say that but you'd be wrong. People don't create the infrastructure of a civilization to sustain farming. Other way around. I have suggested in an earlier post that anybody who has doubt on the subject should google information about the population growth of non-farming civilization. I will recommend it again. Please do so. It will answer your question whether it is farming or civilization that comes first.
Please consult all the words written in green in this post which explain it doesn't actually work at doing what it's supposed to do. Population density is a non-issue.
It is a bad agricultural practice even when land is plentiful. It is also not a technique that only works when land is not a constraint. It just doesn't work. That's why people stopped doing it. The soil is slightly enriched for one harvest, you have heard that part correctly, and then the soil is permanently crippled by a far greater amount. Mass deforestation causes desertification. It is a phenomena that is the opposite of what farmers want and extremely costly to undo.
How is a practice that has been sustained for thousands of years unsustainable? It's only unsustainable in the modern economic context.
>It is a bad agricultural practice
And nobody was talking about the general case, so again, what you're saying is entirely pointless.
It has some serious drawbacks, yes, no one is disputing that. No one ever did. They don't apply here. It also has one great, big boon. It takes fuckall labor. Something that, when they're trying to leapfrog through about 5 millennia of tech, is in short supply.
Anyone translating this?
Otaku no Tonari wa ERUFU Desuka?
mangadex.org
by the Hajimete no gal author
Magic isn't a catch-all for your problems.
I can't stand people that treat it as such.
Again, it's has been done for thousands of years. Forest fires are a natural phenomenon, Ishigami village adding a few hectares every few years to the MILLIONS which burn naturally every year makes no difference.
It's no way to to run a settled, dense population, bit it's perfectly good for a lone tribe with much of the world to itself.
slash and burn is ok for breaking new ground but not for repeated use, you lose too much sulphur
Then neither is technology or you gonna be a hypocrite now?
I'm suspicious of claims of human trafficking in the US after that Florida massage parlor ended up with basically nothing but prostitution charges with no evidence presented that anyone was being forced to stay.
No, that's "diversity". Trafficking would be the sex trade.
>africa
So you're say you can literally truck-kun yourself into isekai? (assuming you're in the old world)
Because rice & egg are the Japanese staple crop & protein.
It's like Americans with corn & chicken. China's rice & pork. And whatever eurofags eat.
If you were a black american and got isekai'd to some asian isekai world with no corn or chickens. After a while you'd also want to recreate cornbread and chicken waffles with shit that's similar.
No technology is the application of the physical properties of materials in such a way that it benefits you.
Magic should follow a similar pattern if it is to be believable to the reader.
Magic doesn't do 'everything', it is just very powerful and works in a manner that can be explained to the reader. Someone can explain a computer chip to a layman and have them understand it reasonably enough, magical spells/rituals/enchantments should be similar. Even if it is complex, it still follows rational principles.
Yeah, of fucking course it isn't. You're not plowing a field with a damn smartphone. You're not tilling the soil with magic fucking missile. If you go out of your way to introduce the stupid fucking magical equivalent of a damn tractor, then all the more to you, but don't just handwave most of your civilization because some schmuck out there can breathe fire and shits thunder.
The principle is mana gets use or turned into things and spells.
You're one of those that think high tech can beat high magic.
It wasn't sustainable back then.They didn't know better. Then they learned better and stopped. The real reason it's still practiced in certain parts of the third world is because it clears a lot of land quickly. It's not done because it's a clever way of permanently enhancing the soil (it's a bad approach for doing that), it's done because it's faster and cheaper than investing in proper agricultural equipment. As such, the only real argument why Senku would use this outdated farming method is if he couldn't build a tractor. But Senku built a tank and he can certainly manage a tractor.
and I thought you were stupid before
Dude konosuba wilderness is so dangerous actual bandits do not exist as you can only live in a walled city
Thats not an attack
>Again, it's has been done for thousands of years.
en.wikipedia.org
Genital mutilation was done for thousands of years. Still a bad idea. No modern country do slash and burn, it has it's own a wikipedia page, it describes why it doesn't work and was abandoned. What more do you want from me? Will you read the wikipedia page if I print the URL on a postcard and send it to you?
>Magic should follow a similar pattern if it is to be believable to the reader.
not it doesn't. While it does converge toward the same "reality warping" as technology and science as it grows further (Clarke's Third Law), the "lower" levels at which most fantasy stuff are, usually clearly differentiate themselves from technology. Often it's something like "using mana as a medium to project your mental image into the world as a supernatural phenomenom". While the usage is same as science with energy, the output is completely different, since science only transforms energy into another form of energy to fulfill a certain purpose, i.e. it's something more "objective", while magic is more inward and mind-based, hence "subjective". That assumes normal technology on the science-side, of course, and not ESPers, since those work very, very different from each other based on each individual sci-fi setting.
There aren't any humans in those area
You don't think Senku can make a tractor? That's harsh. He seems like a clever fellow.
Why are you ignoring the magic that can benefit agriculture and produce nourishment or the nature of the magic world itself? even germany now wants to ban all industrial farming, stop overrating farming.
Thats applies to every other shonen as well tho, in fact you just described naruto
What magic? Fireball? Polymorph?
life/holy/earth magic sometimes have spells that can increase vitality and/or growth of plants.
maybe don't discredit the entire problem from a single news article. you'd have to be pretty fucking retarded to see an article about a false drug bust and come to the conclusion that there aren't drugs in America.
and you can easily find stories of trafficking victims in the US trapped using the same tactics as you'd see in the UEA.
Why are isekai writers so obsessed with painting holy institutions as corrupt/evil?
oh wait, this isn't even isekai
There's no rape, retard
Then that's good. You've magic horseshit. Maybe even some bugspray. Point still stands, going
>lmao who cares, we's gots magic!
at everything is retarded. Someone literally throwing balls of fire around isn't going to help you till a field, and no, neither will a smartphone. Technology doesn't work that way either. If you have the tools for the job, fine. If not, who fucking cares what parlor tricks you have up your sleeve?
>we've got THIS magic
great
>we've got magic
who fucking cares
>As such, the only real argument why Senku would use this outdated farming method is if he couldn't build a tractor. But Senku built a tank and he can certainly manage a tractor.
We're not discussing why Senku doesn't do it you illiterate moron, but why Ishigami village didn't have agriculture / Senku's dad didn't teach them (note that it's possible that he did teach them but they stopped). And the obvious answer to that which I providedback in is that agriculture in general makes no sense for Ishigami village circumstances, and labour intensive (as opposed to slash and burn) agriculture makes even less sense.
Isekaifags need to get it through their thick skulls that the highest tech solution is nit automatically the best solution; the best solution depends on your circumstances. Even in Senku's case, as I pointed out, introducing modern agricultural methods only makes sense due to the prospect of a rapidly increasing population (through unstoning) and for research purposes.
If it was Senku and maybe a couple of compsnions on their own trying to re-invent everything with no prospect of population explosion, hunter-gathering or slash-and-burn would likely be the optimal choice for them as well since it requires less labour and leaves more time for inventing.
Why wouldn't high tech be able to beat high magic, or the other way around?
They are both systems of using energy.
A basic bolt-action rifle is better than like 90% of battle magic.
Magic isn't something god-like, no more so than highly developed technology.
>maybe don't
ugh, like I literally can't even, either
because they generally have been and still to this day cover up some really nasty shit that their people do
Then let me present you, the ultimate fantasy isekai utlity object:
MAGIC TOOLS™
>Magic isnt a catch-all
It can be. That's why good magic is difficult to write cause it can be anything from almost useless to godlike.
I like how the Fate system for magecraft works. Technology and magic does the same thing, but with different tool. Real magic is magical because technology have no way to produce them and there aren't many people who can even wield them to begin with.
Because they were pretty shitty. Some still are.
Because it's something that has a huge impact but is really fucking simple.
Other stuff is much harder, black powder for example. Could you right now, without looking it up, tell me the components and ratios you need to make it? Probably not. If you were thrown back in time you'd know that it's useful but you couldn't make it without a lot of experimenting.
You could introduce crop rotations easily though.
One difference is that the practice is perfectly legal in the UAE; the government even operates debtors' prisons. While in the US it's simple kidnapping. I've seen a lot of stories about girls in poverty turning to prostitution out of desperation, whipped up into "human trafficking" busts by local police eager for federal task force money. The end result usually being that the "victims" end up with a criminal record on top of being poor. I don't think I've seen any articles about outright captives being held against their will. Got a link?
Funny enough electricity would probably be easier than gunpowder, at least if you could get your hands on copper wire
just stroll down to home depot
This. The whole thought experiment was meant to show that their way of trying to detect quantum effects by observing macroscopic properties is retarded because obviously the cat is never both alive and dead at the same time.
No one bothers to actually read his letter though, where he explicitly explains what he meant.
Because Isekai writers a based and redpilled tobacca' spittin' rootin tootin ranch boys
>I cast [physical immunity] [perfect invisibility] [all knowing radar]
Magic can do anything, the only time tech even gets a chance is when the magic level of the world is nerfed to some barbarian tier shithole like GATE
doesn't brazilian farmers slash and burn the rainforest all the time?
>We're not discussing why Senku doesn't do it you illiterate moron, but why Ishigami village didn't have agriculture / Senku's dad didn't teach them
I thought we were discussing whether slash-and-burn is the optimal approach to primitive farming.
>If it was Senku and maybe a couple of compsnions on their own trying to re-invent everything with no prospect of population explosion, hunter-gathering or slash-and-burn would likely be the optimal choice for them
>slash-and-burn would likely be the optimal choice
>slash-and-burn
>optimal
There we go.
It's not. It's not optimal. It wouldn't be the optimal choice. It's a bad idea. It doesn't work well at what it's supposed to do. It does more harm than good. There is a wikipedia page that explains it's not optimal and that the modern world has abandoned the practice. Have you read it? I recommend you read it.
1d nobles and churches are easy villains to create that don't require much effort to pull off.
Yes third world countries do it. It cause wanton ecological damage, loss of soil quality in the long term due to desertification and even deaths in local population due to raging fire hazards. People are trying to convince them to stop, it'd be nice.
Isekai but you are a farmer and dont tell anyone about crop rotation and run everyone else out of business so you get them big bucks to support your harem and 47 children
Mega satan speaking the truth
yeah, it's k
Source user. Reverse search just doesn't work these days.
when do you realize that the existence of [levels], [hp numbers], [rarity system for items] is a construct within a video game that could not be founded in the reality of magic and monster and fantasy. Even dragon ball with its genres so spreadout nowadays explains their powerlevels initially through a computer that calculates killing intention and aura in a way that the viewers can accept that.
the dimensional box the size of another realm or instant language translation and recognition is something that can happen due to the existence of magic and godpowers. It's bad writing but it's plausible enough to accept. But stat screens popping out of thin air, gesture controls, ... this is unacceptable.
Nobody's talking about the general case.
>It doesn't work well at what it's supposed to do
And what, exactly, is that?
>It does more harm than good
How?
Do you not understand what an argument is? All you're doing is making empty statements and repeating yourself as if that lends them credit.
And then bandits flock onto your house like ants to a dropped sugar cube, stealing all of your shit because you're the only rich guy around.
Not that user, but the magic spells you listed, if they truly have these effects ad infinitum (e.g. physical immunity even "block" something like a hyper nova or even a big bang) then it's on the level of conceptual magic, which is already past the convergence point of Clarke's Third Law which makes magic and science indistinguishable from each other.
For example having an "infinite-perpetrual-energy forcefield generator" would have the same effect as physical immunity, an "anti-observer veil" that prevents you from being seen as an observable object of reality would be equivalent to perfect invisibility, and an infinite quantum sonar will resonate with all of reality and show you even the smallest of details in the whole everythingverse.
>A hectare of rice feed more people than a hectare of wheat, otherwise potato is more practical than rice.
Can't forget the centuries of selective breeding that went into that so if MC simply gets some wild crops it won't be very good.
But I'm the protagonist in an isekai so I will drop them like flies without breaking a sweat. After I will go inside and be just in time for the 5 o'clock orgy
>While in the US it's simple kidnapping
how is kidnapping a person and selling them not slavery? do these people have to be wearing chains and a potato sack for it to count to you?
>I don't think I've seen any articles about outright captives being held against their will. Got a link?
don't know what you're getting at. this stuff is easy to google.
youtube.com
theatlantic.com
Dungeon Defense, MC introduces communism to a country to cause unrest.
Germanese Not an Isekai
You just imagine that Magic can do anything. You want magic to do anything. And there is no reason to think that it could.
That is like saying that Technology can do anything, reality has limits. Magic doesn't break reality because it is part of it in setting in which magic exists.
en.wikipedia.org
>Slash-and-burn agriculture, also called fire-fallow cultivation, is a farming method that involves the cutting and burning of plants in a forest or woodland to create a field called a swidden.
>the consequences of slash-and-burn techniques for ecosystems are almost always destructive
>the residual soil value is heavily diminished
>In industrialized regions, including Europe and North America, the practice was abandoned
Nah. It'd be Re-Zero, but without the Re-
>>In industrialized regions
it's not one
>the residual soil value is heavily diminished
which is why you go somewhere else
and you still haven't said a single word on what's actually being argued, the labor required, or its yield
>how is kidnapping a person and selling them not slavery? do these people have to be wearing chains and a potato sack for it to count to you?
Lets look at what he said, then.
>One difference is that the practice is perfectly legal in the UAE; the government even operates debtors' prisons. While in the US it's simple kidnapping
Kidnapping is a crime, for the record. I think what he was getting at, when he was saying "One difference is", immediately followed by saying it's legal in the UAE, may have a little something to do with that fact.
What do you think?
The difference that science will have a limit, magic can change that force field generator into something else or bypass it entirely since some magic cannot be hurt without magic or specific things.
That sonar will not detect perfect invisibility either and that's not even counting in skills and other systems.
Why shouldn't it? magic still has a source and with it it can do anything, that's why it's magic.
The problem here is that his criticism actually WORKS when taken seriously instead of as a criticism.
It's like going:
>If you're so desperate, why don't you drink some of that rotten grape juice?
Then mankind discovers alcohol as you impotently scream that you're not supposed to let food/drink spoil.
>and fucking village girls of questionable age.
Nice.
Parasites have to come along and ruin everything. Otherwise it would actually be a pretty good idea.
I want an isekai manga where a female MC buys slaves. Its always a bland male MC, boring as shit.
What different would it make?
This. Also, reverse harems are worse, since all of the targets look almost the same anyway.
Isekai writers are a bunch of braindead fucktards so they can't explain concepts Grug in 8000B.C. didn't know.
Electricity is actually very easy to generate and use with just a little bit of mechanical-electrical know-how but like I said, they're braindead fucktards who think writing big titty waifu harem and generic self insert MCs for lowest common denominator makes them fucking Tolkien.
Are there any reverse-isekais where fantasy people get transported to the modern day?
Cop Craft.
Crop rotation isn't as straight forward as it's made out to be when isekai MC's explain it and there are lots of crop that don't need to be rotated at all.
new worlders and the bantus figured it out, their plants grew better in places they had previously put their waste
Many of them did especially in east Africa where the earth isn't as fertile and they didn't use natural fertilizers like in the new world and west Africa were they just use agroforestry instead of clearing excess land and losing good topsoil so they don't need to put a ton of work into irrigation.
devil is a part timer
See this is where we run into a disagreement.
To you magic can do anything, because if it was limited then it wouldn't be magic.
My perspective is that magic like any other system of power and energy has limits. It can be fantastical, but it can also be rationally broken down and analyzed.
>Rapes everyone they’ve ever loved
uhuh
But what about those isekai that have different physic than our modern world.
>Just read an isekai where mayonaise is poisonous
not a single developed nation is without it
That's a geography problem. You can't maintain regular crops in areas without consistent rainfall. They maintained them in areas that did have proper conditions.
that it's a bullshit argument and it's either a troll or a fucking retard.
it's just playing around with the semantics without addressing what people are actually doing. it's not even that the UAE is officially recognizing certain people as legal slaves. it's about piss poor labor laws that people are taken advantage of (on purpose or otherwise), fundamentally the same problem in first world countries, just to a lesser extent.
>read an isekai where mayonnaise is poisonous
That's kinda a wee bit fucking retarded
Art imitates life.
Every civilization has figured out some of the basics.
And you need to do that, if you fuck up soil quality then you get no food, you starve, and then somebody invades you for shit and giggles since thats still FREE LAND.
Mostly parasites.
Its basically a good idea because its A LOT of hard ground nutrition, even more so from herbivores multiple stomaches and long intestines.
The downside is that you need to treat it somehow, where the more popular method seem to be to dry it. Its still pretty common, because its great.
But you can't just use it, you need to do SOMETHING.
It's not even the most retarded thing
Why does science have limits? I just told you about the "infinite-perpetual-energy". Science being "limited" is only because you deliberately limit your imagination. There is no proof whatsover that science is limited.
Also science can result in the invention of an "anti-magic pulse" that destroys ether and causes any active magic to explode. Check mate.
Lack of knowledge, easy to explain and make a scene of, and fits the world of most isekai where they're reincarnated into a shitty world with even more shitty characters.
Hell, I don't expect an isekai author to be able to have the character know how to generate electricity and make appliances/tools that could make use of said electricity. That's like Release That Witch 2.0 and that shit is not good.
What was the most retarded
You didn't answer the question. Stop playing stupid. What do you think he was getting at? What was the "one difference" he was talking about?
>Whole class get summoned
>Him alone get 5 super special skills while the other only get 1 normal skill
are you having a stroke? the only question was "what do you think?"
What if Albert einstein was the one that got isekai'd?
No, the ability he had was fundamentally different. The other got their ability as "cheats", but the MC appearently had his abilities to begin with or something like that, most of it was just dormant or something.
Then he did it wrong.
It is a perfect tool to destroy a country
Well, as long as you just wash or cook what you eat, it's not a bad idea. Death from starvation because your soil is depleted is a much bigger deal than any minus. You HAVE to return nutrients to the soil. Farming in one place and shitting somewhere else removes nutrients. Pasturing and pannage is just a method of moving nutrients from common land to crop land. If you don't do either of those three options you're reduced to slash and burn. Real "fallow" land does not regain all the nutrients removed from it after a single year just by being left alone by itelf, in reality it is being fertilized from various external sources. A medieval town was a source of concentrated high grade fertilizer, and its night soil was a valuable commodity.
>an isekai where mayonnaise is poisonous
What series?
What can he do? He was a scientist, not an engineer. He can't make shit without modern tools.
Because those people implemented it wrong. The right result will be an utopia.
Blessing from the Goddess and Transfer to Another World! ~No Thanks, I Don’t Need a Special Ability~
We could kill that.
Thank user.
become a theoretical macicist.
In fairness, in the Sword of Truth all apples(all red fruit actually) are poison because the bbeg used some mega artifact to make them poison purely because children like the color red, and that's kinda cool. I'm always up for some dumb shit like that if it was because of mustache twirling evil-for-the-sake-of-evil dumb shit.
would've been funnier if he cursed cherries because he was short, make them grapes actually sour
I mean in isekai land my man. I imagine copper wire might be bit difficult to get in medieval isekai land, although it might be super easy. Who knows?
You are confusing magic and sorcery.
Sorcery can be explained by science, magic cant.
>Who knows?
Common sense? Medieval people had plenty of copper and they knew how to make wire.
Major issue with fucking around in physics is that it usually means people can't actually be alive often. Say you have a no nitrates for no gunpowder rule, well the nitrates cycle being completely shutoff kills pretty much all life in existence
Fucking cavemen knew about crop rotation, jesus christ. No civilization can get far without it
No, it's usually the other way around. Magic is science, sorcery is magic. It depends on the setting of course, but DnD is essentially this, with magic being teachable and learnt and sorcery being anything else that is not learnt and teachable. And DnD is basically the root of most derivative fantasy. Tolkein doesn't even go into any semantics about this topic, so don't even try.
He might last a while but he's got no tools, what can he do?
I want one where the male MC is one of the slaves bought.
>Could you right now, without looking it up, tell me the components and ratios you need to make it?
Yes? I'm sorry that I have a dick.
They read it in a book a long time ago in a picture book somwhere and want to look smart. TFW it was known since 6000 B.C.
Just cause they know how to make wire doesn't mean it's easy to make nor that it's cheap. Nails were very expensive in the middle ages for a long time, dumb wojak poster.
>magic can create earth
>magic can create water
Surely they can't have problems with food when they can terraform a desert, right?
How does "crop" sound yummy?
Depends if magic can make nitrates and other nutrients? Although if it CAN generate nitrates that explains fire magic
Being able to teach and learn it doesnt mean it follows science laws, which is what we are discussing.
Magic is the power to use supernatural forces to make impossible things happen.
Sorcery is the application of supernatural forces by following scientific studies.
Egypt you dumb fuck
nails are easy as piss to make
Everything was expensive in the middle ages. Making wire is simple, unskilled labor that also does not require any special tools or equipment that requires skilled labor. So by middle ages standards, it would be a cheap for a finished product.
Source: My ass
What about wizardry, witchcraft, and curses?
Also what's the difference between Sorcery and ESP-based powers?
Post nails you've made from raw ore
>making an omelette is easy
>w-well, can you breed chicken?!
The difficulty doesn't come from shaping it into nails. That's easy.
Post nails that you've shaped then
/tg/ attempted to answer that question once and it degenerated into the abomination known as Harem Knights
A few isekai have it work a bit like that.
In Hello Work the MC mixes earth, water and fire magic to create better quality soil for his little fief.
>Heck Egypt is in Africa
And you see what happened to it.
>Isekai protag learns about the Macedonian Phalanx and uses it on his isekai country.
>Don't hold formation.
>Don't even really hold the line.
Please stop.
They learnt from the best worst
I swear japs are incapable of doing research. The most they'll do is accidentally hear one tidbit of trivia, run to their drawing boards and fill in the blanks with their shitty imaginations.
that's how everyone does things
Is electricity dependant on the fact that the Earth has a magnetic field?
I fail to understand what would ever make you ask such a stupid question.
Why would a person ever say something like this?
>Author shill a novel
>Readers go read that
>It's bad
>Readers come back to complain to the author about making them waste money on a bad novel
I love chinks.
They should study soil science. Crop rotation has been known since ancient times. The Mesopotamians practiced crop rotation 6000 years ago and the Bible instructs the Israelites to let the land 'rest' every 7 years.
What destroys civilizations is not whether or not you rotate crops it's how you preserve your soil. The Greeks realized too late that all their fertile soil was replaced with bedrock after a couple centuries of farming. The Romans salted Carthage after it was sacked to prevent them from ever growing food again then were forced to use Carthage as their main food production later when their own soil was lost to erosion after only a couple centuries of farming.
And guess what? We're doing it to ourselves all over again. Yay?
scientificamerican.com
It's easier to explain but a lot harder to fix, and Isekai authors don't study soil science so they go with something so baby tier it was practiced 6000 years ago as if it's something new to medieval civilization. Pure laziness.
I'm surprised the thread didn't end here. Isekai writers are near-universally fucking awful about selecting which future-tech shit is used too.
>world with magic and high grade steel
>nobody's even thought of a gun yet
>not even a matchlock
>Isekai protag decides to teach everyone the glory of japanese cuisine while soldiers die in droves to monsters because they can't use magic and swords+arrows aren't effective unless you're the MC
Pathetic.
Is RTW on hiatus or something?
The only acceptable implementation of a stat screen in isekai is when only the MC can see it and it only applies to him and maybe his teammates. As in, he sees a stat screen to help him use his powers because that's how his mind chooses to contextualize them in the setting, but it's not like that for anyone else.
It also means you can have the funny scene where the MC tries to explain something stat related and everyone laughs at him for being a retard.
>Is RTW on hiatus or something?
I heard something about it being finished and that the ending was very rushed or something.
IIRC it had something to do with the "People's Republic of Indecent Web Novel Content Purge" a few months ago.
God fucking damnit fucking commies. it didn't even have any adultery or polygamy! Author should've slutted all witches to Roland if it would come to this anyway.
I think cancelled because China didn't like the content.
Crossfire Hurricane and Red Bind too. Weird how all attack yelling in JoJo (not stand cries) happen in part 3.
Reminds me of that Ordinance in Tokyo that ended Kodomo no Jikan and Aki no Sora.
I don't care what you say Yea Forums, I could absolutely make black powder and direct even bronze age people's to cast cannons.
They weren't stupid, just ignorant.
>brendel chops off a bad guy’s hand in their first meeting and throughly and publicly humiliates the guy, ruin their evil cult plans and leaves the guy for dead in their second meeting, then aggros a train of monsters right to the guy while turning invisible with his magic cape in their third meeting.
lol, love that face slapping
fuck that furry fuck
Only crop rotation has effects in seasons, and soil erosion takes effects exceeding some natural human lifetimes.
No one is going to care to fix something they won't live to see collapse.
There's also "hamon overdrive" in part 1 and 2 that gets yelled a few times.
>My heart is burning with the heat of a raging fire! Feel the pounding beat of my pulse! SUNLIGHT YELLOW OVERDRIVE!
It's not just writers. Plenty of people think that anyone who lived before, say, widespread electricity and modern media was essentially a moron living in their own shit. Objectively we may possibly be better educated in the sense that we have all of humanity's accumulated knowledge to guide us and more or less compulsory education in first world countries for people of all economic levels.
Then again I'd struggle to say that some retard on Yea Forums or dipshit taking a bunch of college classes is actually smarter than, say, James A. Garfield or Marcus Aurelius.
I want to see an isekai bring modern tech to Rome while dodgeing assassins, poisoning, disease, and the occasional emporor having a bad day murder everyone who's name starts with B
Wizard was learning and memorizing a spell and only using it once, you then have to learn it again now a wizard just means a smart guy who learns magic.
Mage is like a lesser version of wizard, not necessarily smart.
Sorcerer is the chad version of wizard that uses magic based on pure instinct, fate and genetics, Abra Kadabra.
Witches are women who use rituals to make pacts with demons and make potions which is witchcraft, has magic too but not necessary, men who do this are called warlocks can be a sorcerer too.
Curses are spiritual based and different from magic.
ESP is the sixth sense and above, spiritual and mind based.
literal underage
>Wizard was learning and memorizing a spell and only using it once, you then have to learn it again
charges are a D&D thing and you don't need to relearn the spell as its based on vancian magic where its limited on a per day basis
Wizards need intense studying and knowledge to perform magic
Sorcerers have innate magicka that they call upon
Mage is basically jack of all trades in regards to magic
because they are
take away their tax exempt status already
>I want one where the male MC is one of the slaves bought.
this
It would have to have a female owner who is similar in personality to the standard male mc. Gunota had the mc bought as a slave as an arc, but that's not enough. I want one bought by a perverted virgin female.
>Plenty of people think that anyone who lived before, say, widespread electricity and modern media was essentially a moron living in their own shit.
Chinese writing must make this even worse for east Asian writers. I mean, damn, that shit is intentionally hard to learn and it harshly reduced the literacy rates of commoners for most of their history. That'd amplify bias against the illiterate, and it'd still be projected onto their pseudo-western-fantasy isekai peasants.
Just as Mark Twain wrote "A Yankee in King's Arthur's Court," so too did Americans get there first.
>The Man Who Came Early
>During a violent thunderstorm, an unexplained phenomenon transports the titular 20th-century American US Army MP back in time to Ospak's homestead. The American, who becomes known as Gerald "Samsson", is an engineering student drafted to serve at Keflavik during the Cold War between the U.S. and the Soviet Union.
>Although his engineering background gives him many ideas of how to improve life for the Icelanders (such as advanced sailing vessels), his lack of practical know-how, and his oversophisticated ideas when set against the nature of 10th-century life, lead to none of his suggestions being implemented.
> Knowledge of 20th-century metallurgy does not endow him with the highly specialised skill needed to work in a 10th-century smithy, and his attempt to do so ends with a costly fiasco. Also, knowing the theory of how to design a large metal bridge is not a sufficient base for constructing a small wooden bridge over a rivulet with medieval carpentry tools.
>Then, Gerald guilelessly mentions that his family owns no land and lives in one apartment of a big house where many other families live - not realizing that he has just plunged his social status sharply down, as in this rural society a landless man is far down the scale. And when he boasts that the United States is a free society, but admits that US citizens may be called up for military service even at harvest time, his shocked hosts conclude that the US is the worst and most monstrous of tyrannies - since in their economy, calling up the farmers in harvest time would doom their families to starvation, unaware that in modern times far fewer people need to farm.
>In order to avert his host becoming entangled in a blood feud, Gerald departs on his own - which leads to his being outlawed and hunted down. When making his last stand, his ammunition runs out.
> [x] is a native isekai
Haiti really fucked itself, but most famine in Africa is because of war fucking everything up.
It’s like saying Germans were just to dumb to farm because of the famines in WW1.
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How far stuck up your own ass do you need to be to write something like this
Do you not understand jokes?
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