What was the last anime to use cells?

...

Imagine all these skilled proffesionals being fired to be replaced by photoshop kiddies...

I honestly don't think they feel all that about it.
FotNS animators were treated worse than dogs

*all that bad

>boy I sure love being unemployed instead of a slave
said no one ever

The shit animators put up with is crazy. A lot of them would be better off working as casheirs and janitors. I guess if people actually enjoy their job and don’t just come here to get paid, you can get away with a lot.

you think well see any changes to the censorship laws during Reiwa?

>he's never heard of the US of A

I'm sure there are hundreds of third world countries I never heard of

Pretty Sure Code Geass had Tits in S1.

I CAN'T BELIEVE 2007 WAS THE LAST TIME ANIME HAD UNCENSORED TITS

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Why did cels always have warmer comfier colours and lightning as opposed to todays rougher brighter colours that hardly mesh well together. Its not like the same palettes cant be recreated digitally, so what gives.

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Interlinked

Galaxy Angel's first season was cels and then they switched the digital.

It's all about saving time (and therefore money).

I know mazinkaizer used cels until the vs great general of darkness epilogue ova, and those were like 2001 and 2002, indeed dynamic pro was one of the last studios to utilize it, even during the mazinger z 30th anniversary short film actually used both cel and digital at different times, kind of shows the border when it was ending.

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Too bad the blu-ray looks like garbage.

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It's an improvement over the DVDs at least

Too bad Mahoromatic is trash other than the animation itself.

Does anyone have the webm where it shows them drawing that super detailed background from Akira thats used for all of 3 seconds?

I think it was also the fact people had limited pallet for cel coloring. Same with anything with limited constraints. Artist have to interpret and make appealing with what they had. Once you have every color at your disposal things can get retarded and perhaps less thought put into things.

The thing is about this is that it would probably only take one pretty well obsessed programmer to come up with a way to recreate cel style colors and imagery effortlessly, but no one has jumped on that train.

They didn't in a lot of cases, low quality sources just made it look that way. Example: DVD...

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Vs remaster.

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They did a few tricks with the color palette and outlines in G-Reco and it looks nice imo.

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I liked it but at least you appreciate something about it.

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Yeah, G reco is brilliant cause the tricks are really simple, like that broken line filter they have all over the shop

because director was able to bring in his old Boomer buddies for a pet project.

Problem with 'just make tools' is that it won't work. If you have a shitty budget show, slapping inconsistent line tools and fuzzy filters like Reco would just make it look worse.

Attached: stylizied.jpg (1280x718, 167K)

Is it really that hard to just use the "pick colour" tool on MSpaint lmao.

I'd rather watch the DVD there

On second thought a still is probably a better example than a webm
There were even a few battles where they really blatantly moved around a bunch of the grunt suits as if they were painted on a single cel and I get the feeling it was intentional

Attached: [OZC]Gundam Reconguista in G E11 'Charge in! The Space War' [1080p].mkv_snapshot_19.29_[20 (1920x1080, 309K)

The recent boom in neural network based image fuckery gives me hope. Not my area of expertise but Im betting someone could feed it the enormous amount of training data we have and it'd do a pretty good job altering CG work.

Don't be silly

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Have you seen this man?

>Don't be silly
I'm serious.

>Problem with 'just make tools' is that it won't work.
That's like saying a shovel doesn't work cause you gave it to a crab. Money is merely an incentive, any person sufficiently insane enough can make great work without that motivator. As it stands, tools to make such a thing as effortless as cutting through warm butter don't exist yet.

Nice

Came here to post this

Yeah, this darker palate is a VHS depreciation thing, isn't it?

Too bad EG only encoded half the show and then dipped

Think it's partly caused by shitty artists and partly by series being more flashy and moe nowadays. You don't even get women like Deelit anymore either.

No TV anime in the last ten years has had colors like these though.

This is actually quite the eye opener.
I definitely like DVD more though. Darker/warmer colours make me feel cozy. Like im wrapped in a blanket by a camp fire.

And dreadfully distinct.

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Will we ever get a series in which the robots are the actual characters instead of just vessel mecha for a retarded high schooler?

Transformers
About half of the Braves franchise
Giant Robo
And many more

>janitors
Why would they wanna work for free?

Attached: OG.jpg (1920x1080, 287K)

What?

Except that the animators knew about the difference from cel to broadcast and colors were adjusted accordingly. the DVD example is how it was expected to look. They used overly bright colors on cels to achieve that look in broadcast, because they expected the dimming.

It actually isn't

it took me some minutes to get it..

Of course, I was just clearing up his misunderstanding that the cels themselves were what contributed to the warm look.

You sound like you've watched TTGL, Eva and Code Geass and now think you're a mecha aficionado. There are a lot, try looking for yourself

The dimmer colors look infinitely better.

I guess this is semi-related:
Can anyone tell me what happened to Episode 16 of Outlaw Star? It seems to me that there was an extreme drop in animation quality compared to previous episodes, or am I just imagining things?
Did they lack time or just change animation technique mid series?

Well I agree and I like at least two of those but I meant anime of the last and next 10 years. At least something like Casshern would be nice again.

You're a dumbass

Concrete Revolutio
Seriously dude you haven't even been looking

>misunderstanding that the cels themselves were what contributed to the warm look
But they do. More specifically, the fact that the colors are achieved by real paints is what gives them are far warmer and textured look. There's also the fact that there are physical layers of inks and paints layered on top of each other, giving real depth. The natural variation of a paint/ink is simply too difficult and time consuming to achieve in animation with the digital medium at this point in time.

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Will the likes of this ever be seen again in any great quantity if Japan has another miracle economic boom?

Were theatrically released films exempt from those measures because they were screened using projectors?

I actually watched that. How was this a robot series? I am not talking about a series containing a humanlike character that is a robot but a series in which most characters are robots, especially if they do not look like humans.

Yet you're still probably thinking of humanoid robots instead of industrial robot arms and the like.
Anyway, have you tried Gundams on Motorcycles?

Each case is different, Domon was just a good example because of the obnoxious red of his cape. It's mostly TV shows that often only use one layer of paint with no shading, like a lot of Gundam, where the contrast will be greatest. Extremely detailed shit will of course benefit immensely from remasters.

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Remember when animes was art?

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There's also the fact that the encoding and color balancing in the remaster rip is trash.

Why is it always mostly /m/ goons that comment in these kinds of threads? Do other people just not go back and watch older stuff? That's scary to think about

No

One of those endless running early evening tv series no one in the West knows or cares.

I think other people just don't obsess over the cel look as much. It's one charm point, not the be all end all of animation quality.

Didn't Toei claim this ep of DBS was animated with cells?

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Hataraku Saibou.

because /m/ watches anime
while Yea Forums will watch any tripe as long as there's cute girls init

Because greater Yea Forums is pretty satisfied by any anime regardless of art quality as long as it's not 3D, regardless of the fact that a digital anime looks good at best 80% of the time anyway, with the majority only getting up to 30%.

Mecha anime really dominated for a long time so most of the well remembered older shows are mecha.

It's mainly a stylistic choice. A lot of anime now is intentionally washed out or hazy. When shows don't do that on purpose they look different. MGX from a few years ago had a very '90s high-contrast thing going with the character design despite it being an average modern show.

>because /m/ watches anime
I've been on /m/ for a very long time, and like everywhere, they're still pretty autistic. /m/ defends GGG Final for christs sake That being said I'd still rather watch it than whatever flavor of the week is on

Just what's wrong with GGG Final?

GGG Final is split down the middle of having some of the most amazing shit I've ever seen, and also some of the most embarassingly awful character drama and story I've seen. Unless you have a big hard on for super robots, it's impossible to recommend it

>/m/ goons that comment in these kinds of threads?
The overuse of shitty CGI mechs have destroyed their minds, spirits and taste.

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isn't /m/ just the gundam containment board

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dump anus

>isn't /m/ just the gundam containment board
And Gundam's some prime cut shit. Don't knock it till you give it a try

Can't believe no one here has mentioned Sazae-san was still using cels into the early 2010s.

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>Do other people just not go back and watch older stuff?
I mostly haven't bothered because so much of it seems to be action, mecha or sci-fi, which I have very little interest in watching.
Also, even though it's mostly down to character designs I generally think they look worse.

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I've never heard of that

Even if you have no interest in those genres, you owe it to yourself to go back and watch 80s movies and OVAs. Productions actually having the money to invest in talent and more staff comes across very strongly, and 100% makes it better.
There's also the fact you're going to realise where a lot of tropes/genres/archetypes have their roots. Media is always paying omage to their references, and having that lost on you is dissapointing. Kill la Kill for example, has so many visual references there was a massive spreadsheet back in the day of everyone compiling what they found. Don't know where I have that saved, but I'm sure someone in this thread does

I've watched Gundam and Z Gundam. That was about 100 episodes of Char waving his dick at everyone.

I already watched Akira and GitS in the 90s and rewatched them at some point in the past 15 years to see them as an adult, as well as the standard older Ghibli stuff. No amount of looking good will change me preferring newer types of series and I'd probably rate Tesagure above a lot of them despite the look.
I know I'll miss some references but I'd probably be better off going through things like Sazae-san, Doraemon and Chibi Maruko that seem to be standard knowledge for Japs.
As for KLK I dropped it by episode 7 because I was so bored. I doubt getting the references would've offset the boredom. Knowing how boring I often find action series like that is part of what puts me off trying too many of them, but I'll still probably try some OVA due to the lower time commitment.

/m/ consists of anime fans who everything from all time periods
Yea Forums consists of reddit memers who just want to shitpost about the latest fad title

Wasn't it a Pokemon movie?
I think their mid 00s movies were animated in cels.

>No amount of looking good will change me preferring newer types of series
This is just what it comes down. I value aesthetics over almost everything else.

>better off going through things like Sazae-san, Doraemon and Chibi Maruko that seem to be standard knowledge for Japs
You probably already know more about these series than you think.

>As for KLK I dropped it by episode 7 because I was so bored. I doubt getting the references would've offset the boredom
KLK was just the biggest example I could think of off the top of my head, I wasn't nessecarily saying its made monumentally better by getting references.

>Knowing how boring I often find action series like that is part of what puts me off trying too many of them
There's plenty of anime like Kare Kano and Tenshi no Tamago without any. I don't know what level of action you're talking about, but if even Lupin, You're under Arrest or Uruseri Yatsura are too action heavy for you, I don't think there's gong to be that much anime at all for your tastes. Shutting action off completely means missing classics like Gunbuster and Urutsukidouji.

>but I'll still probably try some OVA due to the lower time commitment
You should do that anyway. With home video all but dead, the art of the OVA has been lost. OVAs were where most of the quality anime of the 80s/90s comes from

>This is just what it comes down. I value aesthetics over almost everything else.
It does seem to be what a lot of these threads end up being, and neither side is wrong in the matter.
While there are plenty of series where aesthetic elements can add to it I've just seen too many good series that barely have any animation or just look bad to view it as essential.
As for action I liked Flip Flappers enough to know I can deal with some, it's just that all the best parts of them aren't the action. It generally just preferred the character bits and some of the overall style, like the designs for episode 5 or the colour use in 6.
I'll go through some OVA soon to give it a try anyway. It took me 16 years of putting off Evangelion because I didn't expect I'd care and I liked it enough that I'm willing to give more things a go.

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Flip Flappers is actually a great example of the merit aesthetics can have. Of course there's going to be some episodes that look worse than others, but at the very least I was always looking at something interesting, and it actually adds to characterisation more than any of the dialogue. The washed out greys of the real world giving way to the vibrant winter wonderland of the first dreamworld sold me on Cocona's character more than any of those conversations she has with her mother

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Those were some kino sex scenes.

What anime is that? Google says its "retro anime face" so technically correct I guess.

Not saying you are wrong, but you can see random anones around the world digital editing these modern series into looking exactly like old school cels, my point is, if a random user can do it digitally, why someone in Japan doesn't do so for a show?

Kite

Ed, Edd, n Eddy

how is mody ,pgery anma animeate if ylkeir m,oy yruikng cekks> is it all dome digitally?

Thanks.

Dumb strokeposter.

how is modern anime animated if not using cells? is it done digitall?

that wasn't actually intentional, i've got a new keyboard and i accidentally typed everyhing one key to the right. i don't tend to proofreed my posts

Watch gundam the origins new opening they did some scenes with what you are describing

I know the the Shin-chan and Pokemon movies used cels into the early 00s but is probably the best answer ITT.

Filters will make digital coloring blend better but idiots still shitpost against them.

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>because /m/ watches anime
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Yeah Pokemon movies were using cels up until 2006
The tv anime used them until 2002

>mindlessly posting a haha funney and not even reading the thread
>made in the first few posts
This place is shit.

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I was at the doc and he said I have abnormally huge amount of white blood cells.
>Imagine all the ara ara~

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>Why is it always mostly /m/ goons that comment in these kinds of threads?
Because /m/ consists first of foremost of ironic weebs who hate modern anime. They don't watch anything and they have the knowledge of a seasonal newfag. Most of them didn't even watch anything beyond the most acclaimed titles of their favourite subgenre. And they aren't /m/ goons. They are /m/aggots.
>Do other people just not go back and watch older stuff? That's scary to think about
Oh, you're a falseflagging crossboarder. Should have just said so.

What happens when they make a mistake? Do they they just start over?

Came here to post this

>Except that the animators knew about the difference from cel to broadcast and colors were adjusted accordingly. the DVD example is how it was expected to look.
Yea, exactly. Which is why the hair is blue but shows up as black on the DVD. Because the animators and artists wanted to achieve black hair they ordered blue paint. Working as intended, bros. Nothing to see here.

Came here to post this

Blue often is used as a substitute for black, yes. So is brown.

If they weren't accounting for the eventual broadcast and distribution quality they wouldn't have used such harsh colors otherwise.

zoomers love bright and flashy stuff. Just look at jojo or hxh

Came to this post here

Because most good mecha anime are old and most good old anime are mecha. And Yea Forums only cares about waifus in seasonal anime

Sazae-san

I am glad you were on the production staff. Always good to have someone around who actually worked on the projects.

>Because /m/ consists first of foremost of ironic weebs who hate modern anime.
That's where you'd be wrong. Go on /m/ before making statements about it. Almost nobody goes there for anything other than gunpla/plamo threads. If not for the fact /m/ was made before /toy/, there'd be little need for it to exist.
>Oh, you're a falseflagging crossboarder. Should have just said so.
>can't think of anything witty or funny to say
>just say he's a crossboarder
We can see how big your dick is user, we're very proud, but adults are talking, and we'd appreciate if you were quiet for two minutes

Damn that's beautiful.

Obviously in this day and age using complete hand drawn visuals would cost far too much. Can you get away with it for only key visuals without looking too jarring?

Came here to post this

Not sure if anyone else has said this, but came here to post this

How did it feel?

As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

Studio Pablo still makes hand drawn backgrounds. That part of the art form is still very much alive

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As a whole?Probably Redline. But even nowadays a lot of background artist still do things the traditional way

>But even nowadays a lot of background artist still do things the traditional way
What anime or studios are you talking about? On the whole backgrounds have moved to digital, and look shit for the most part. There are of course traditional background still being made, but they're definitely not the majority

Thank you based Studio Pablo and 3Hz

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I'm sure lots of them are still good at hand drawing stuff.
Don't quite a lot of them scan drawings and the main digital element is the colouring and layering?

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...

you're alright

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How did Sunrise go from this to IBO (strictly in terms of animation quality)?

>hand drawn visuals
Describe and define what do you mean by "hand drawn". Some shows still have physicaly painted backgrounds or still frames. Hell, Mob Psycho used glass paintings and it wasn't jarring at all.

Attached: mobbu.gif (540x300, 2M)

Yes, that's one example, and in my post I said there were still examples, but it wasn't the mainstream.
>But even nowadays a lot of background artist still do things the traditional way
I might have misread "a lot" as meaning the majority, but if you just mean at all, then sure, you're right. I didn't disagree with you there though

Sunrise has multiple studios working on several projects at once. G-Reco was done by Studio 1, the guys who also worked on Unicorn and Thunderbolt, while IBO was done by Studio 3, the guys who also worked on the Build Fighters series and AGE.

I think it's different from studio to studio. I only know that for Sunrise Turn A Gundam was the cut off point.

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>bro I wish we still had hand drawn animation
Is this the most ironic weeb statement anyone has ever uttered on this board? How do these people modern anime are being made? By someone drawing shit on a wacom?

But the first season of Big O was after Turn A and it was cel

Attached: [HorribleSubs] Ueno-san wa Bukiyou - 11 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_06.23_[2019.03.23_03.08.21].jpg (1920x1080, 205K)

it had female masturbation which is much more based.

Learn to read baboon. The thread is about animation cels, not the concept of hand drawn anime. If you think those are the same thing, you've outed yourself as an ignorant imbecile

It's complicated and without reliable sources I can find I can pretty much talk out of my ass, but basically the work on Big O started as early as 1996 until it finally aired in October 1999. As far as I can tell Turn A is last cel anime Sunrise greenlit.

Read the thread imbecile. Half the niggers who posted in it do think that's what it means.

No they just actually tried for once. Maybe the Broly movie went back to cels though? Don't remember

There was one post talking generically about "hand drawn" visuals. Most other mentions have been about backgrounds, which I think is an acceptable use of the term. Most backgrounds are 100% digital, which ARE created by hand, but not on paper

Hatching looks really bad when it isn't real.

within cells interlinked
withincells interlinked
with incels interlinked
OH MY GOD

This dumb incel meme is forced and unfunny.
>"you like something and care about it? What a faggot huhuh"
fucking die

This looks like Owari no Seraph. Season 3 when?

Because cel animated mechanics are HOT.

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the liking for /m/ go beyond time and space. which makes people got dig older /m/ shows. and watching old /m/ shows ends up making you search for older anime in general.
Yea Forums cares about MAL and whatever is the newest anime meme
a bunch of /m/ anons go dig up old obscure shit for the sake of preserving the anime sharing with people. things that not even the japs remember

What happened to uncensored tits anyway? Why is there so much censorship nowadays regarding that?

stupid newfag
really stupid newfag

because they wanted to rise the sales of BDs. when ATX started going full retard in 2010 it was the cutting point. all this happened because the value of anime airing on tv reach rock bottom

>a bunch of /m/ anons go dig up old obscure shit for the sake of preserving the anime sharing with people. things that not even the japs remember
Embarrassing post.

>What happens when they make a mistake?
they get immediately replaced.
Animators had to deal with borderline slavery back then.

because modern anime is all pastel colours and pastel colours are gay shit.

>gundam gets a containment board
>we'll never get a containment board for fateshit, shounen and waifufaggots

bravo user

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>back then
Cute.

this is where the quality happens

There is one, you're posting in it

you could've just said you wanted to make Yea Forums a SoL containment board.

Came here to post this

The boards cannot contain the nasu parasite, it infects even /vg/ with two separate generals

Fate has been a part of Yea Forums culture since this site's inception

How can you even be this new?

That's Yea Forums.

Wow. Didn’t realize I have an iconic piece of anime history. I got this 6 years ago.

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by being born post 2000

Post the total amount of pre-2000s anime you've seen to prove that you're a true boomer. 785 here. Pre-2000s anime were truly were gruesome and watching them was very enraging.

And I am not even a pre-2000s specialist. So if you've seen less you're in no position to comment on japanese cel animation!

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Literally almost 20 titles.

cels had that color palette due to technical limitations of the process of scanning to film.

with the digital process artists have more freedomg. Which they use by cranking up saturation, slathering mood lighting on top and applying bloom filters to make things look softer.

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>doesn't post actual example
>implies that all dvd encodes have proper color correction
>his monitor probably isn't even calibrated
>further implies that animators have no idea things looked different on tv than they did on cels
Fuck yourself, retard.

Hol up I don't remember this part.
BDs add anything else?

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>Fate has been a part of Yea Forums culture since this site's inception
Newfags say the darndest things

More thunderbolt fucking when?

>cels had that color palette due to technical limitations of the process of scanning to film.
That's not true. Digital is the format with a ton of technical limitations on coloring, linework, etc.

No you

>Digital is the format with a ton of technical limitations on coloring, linework, etc.
LMAOAOAOAOAOOFEMFOEMOFSMFOSEMFOSOFSEF Does this nigger understand how screens and computers work?

My profession is graphic design. I work with digital visual formats every day. Great post, btw.

Film may have a wide gamut, but digital formats can in principle use Rec2020 now. But it doesn't matter, because it's not about the theoretical limitations of film. It's about the limitations of the combined process of painting something (substractive pigment colors) and then scanning it onto film.

No, Redline was done in digipaint. It just had a massive number of hand drawn frames.

I can't believe it took me this long to get it.
God I'm retarded

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>not even japs remember
is false but, there's a museum thread where all the old shits are preserved

Mecha was the beachhead of cgi. They've suffered under it's oppressive anti-art tyranny the longest.
Some of my earliest memories of Yea Forums were absolute shitposts about Macross Zero.

also, G-Reco had veterans that are friends with Tomino that got tired from modern anime artstyle so they tried changing it up.

>bullsh... oh

Im not sure if it was the last, but for sure it was one of the last anime on Cel.

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It sure would be nice if people read the fucking thread when the answer has already been posted
Instead of saying "I'm not sure but here's something that isn't it".

It's so alive that every major studio that used to have an art department doesn't and on the rare occasions they need something painted they have to outsource to the single vestigial holdout called Pablo.
Sorry anonymous. Not buying it.

Such an embarrassing claim. Maybe watch more anime, newfag. Pablo works on no more than a show per season. Yet there are dozens of anime with properly painted backgrounds per year, especially movies.

don't be upset.

I'm a bit jelly.

>sometimes they commission individuals instead of Pablo
Wow you sure showed me anonymous.

nice

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this

That's some nice goal post moving, user.
I hope raging at the imagined downfall of art is entertaining to you, because I don't think that you're going to convince anybody with transparent nonsense like that.

Please post a single modern studio that has an actual art studio.
>imagine
If your eyes can't tell 3d, from photoshop, from paint then I guess everything sane people see would seem imagined.

cels¨*

I've thought about this too.

Thank you. It’s one of the many pieces of Big O merch. My crowned jeweled.

Damn, anime looks like that??

There was a time when shitting on /m/ was not only acceptable but also understandable. But for 2019 Yea Forums to think it has the legitimacy to shit on any board is just pathetic. This board has been a complete embarrassment ever since m**t decided to open the floodgates to bottom of the barrel shonenshit and anime discussion became saturated with forced memes and seasonal shit. Not only are there better anonymous boards alternatives out there, I do question if even reddit isn't better than this absolute embarrassment at this point. I mostly only come back for /pc/ now and topics with a modicum of interest like this one.

Holy shit dude good job

>What is Sazaesan, Alex?

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I'm not from /m/, and I'm quite happy with the current state of cute girl shows, which is my main preference, but am only lurking for general information.

>it's just that all the best parts of them aren't the action.
The action in the Yuri Road episode was great though.

>But for 2019 Yea Forums to think it has the legitimacy to shit on any board is just pathetic
Yea Forums is still one of the better places on this fucking site. Let that sink in.
>forced memes and seasonal shit
I won't argue it hasn't been worse, but Yea Forums has always been full of terrible jokes and a fascination for whatever's new.
>there better anonymous boards alternatives out there
Yea Forums is still the only place you can make a thread with certainty it will get attention. There are much better place to have discussion, but it can nice to get so much response in such little time comparatively.
>I do question if even reddit isn't better than this absolute embarrassment at this point
Reddit on the whole might be better than this place at times, but not /r/anime. Most of that place is filled with people that think 2007 anime is "too old"

It was Sazae-san in 2015. Easy to Google

>Needing to google it
So what is it? Do you think you sound smart admitting you were a retard 5 minutes ago?

CGDCT slice of life is a genre that generally enjoys good animation and direction. And the genre itself only rose to prominence during the age of digital animation. So it's natural that you feel less affected by this than mechafags.

curious, can you post more of it, or at least tell us what big o merch you have.

>Yea Forums is still one of the better places on this fucking site. Let that sink in.
This was always one of those truisms that you'd hear all the time. But lately I do question it. Yea Forums has been almost unbearable to post, this board has become almost Yea Forums-tier.
>I won't argue it hasn't been worse, but Yea Forums has always been full of terrible jokes and a fascination for whatever's new.
Sure, memes and bad jokes were always board culture. But know you have this plague of disyllabic memes like "COPE", "SEETHE", etc. that are just noise. And the noise to signal ration keeps increasing. And, sure, Yea Forums always appreciated novelty, but there was always deep reverence for past shows. For the longest time, the worst nostalgiaposting was about toonami shows but there was always parallel discussion about this or that other 80s show. Nowadays those topics are promptly ignored.
>Yea Forums is still the only place you can make a thread with certainty it will get attention.
This used to be a much less populated board. I think phoneposting has had ruinous effects in many, many boards, but the most dolorous symptoms of thi plight are perhaps felt in boards like Yea Forums. That coupled with m**t having legitimised the shonenposting the one-two punch this board needed to KO.
>Reddit on the whole might be better than this place at times, but not /r/anime.
I don't give a single fuck about reddit. I only mention it because any semblance of peace and order immediately (and erroneously) conjures up the image of r/anime or whatever the fuck. And this is the true tragedy of Yea Forums, people have a corrupted board culture now and aren't even generally able to funpost appropriately, because most people have an anachronistic Yea Forums or Yea Forums tier style of posting. With very few exceptions, this place just isn't fun any more, unless you're watching a relatively obscure show like Guru Guru with fun threads an lovely posters or if you're into niche stuff like Pretty Cure, you'll just have to endure the idiocy.

>we'll never get a containment board for fateshit
it's called /jp/

CELLS

Hopefully within the next hour. But I have figmas of Roger and Dorothy, box sets of season 1 & 2 (both signed by Steven Blum), the entire Blu-ray box set, the 1st Soundtrack, the entire manga series, including the 2 bonus volumes that never made it to the US, photo copied 9x11 production sketches, and an episode/character guide book. If I had the money, I would’ve gotten a LOT more!

>if the thread is still alive, i’ll post.

Nice

Actual best OP coming through, shame it was used on a filler arc but its just too fucking good
youtube.com/watch?v=aJRu5ltxXjc

>This was always one of those truisms that you'd hear all the time. But lately I do question it.
In all honesty, I think its gotten to a point I'd rather go to /jp/ than here, but its still leagues ahead of Yea Forums. Yea Forums has a shitty, perverted version of its board culture intact, but Yea Forums literally doesn't resemble the place it used to be in any way
>but there was always deep reverence for past shows
I'm not entirely convinced, or maybe just still want to believe, that's not completely gone. Even something like threads like this getting attention are indicative people still care, to some extent.
>This used to be a much less populated board
This is true of all boards, and largely a result of the internet becoming much more mainstream in the past 15 years. Yea Forums has always been, at least to my knowledge, the most populated anime dicussion center online.
>people have a corrupted board culture now and aren't even generally able to funpost appropriately, because most people have an anachronistic Yea Forums or Yea Forums tier style of posting
Boards in general have become too self-aware. There's an active effort to post memes for their own sake, instead of genuinely finding something funny or endearing.
>With very few exceptions, this place just isn't fun any more
I don't really disagree with you. I consider it a good day here when I don't get physically angry at a single thread.

Shit wrong thread, meant for But while I'm here damn this is really sick

>KLK
>Boring
Please explain

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>With very few exceptions, this place just isn't fun any more
What is the alternative?

Jumped the shark after the first tournament arc, should have been one cour.

No one ever gives a proper answer to these questions. I don't think anyone knows, considering everyone gives a different answer.

>"they can easily, they just don't feel like it"
>"they can't, its not possible with digital"
>"they can, but its really hard"
>"they never did, VHS makes it look like that"
>"they can, but the audience doesn't want it"
>"no difference then vs today hurr durr"
etc.

How would you know if you didn't get past ep 7?
Also that doesn't explain the question, you can complain about plenty of things in klk, but boring isn't one of them.

>I think its gotten to a point I'd rather go to /jp/ than here
I have to introduce more /jp/ to my diet. I think that the last time I went there was to shit on m**t in a train thread and before that was when the Japanese learning generals were moved to there. I don't have a good opinion of that board to be honest, for me it's "that board where they try to contain all the fateshit".
>Boards in general have become too self-aware. There's an active effort to post memes for their own sake, instead of genuinely finding something funny or endearing.
For the longest time, there was this idea that Yea Forums influenced Internet culture, but that dynamic has shifted to social media and YouTube. Yea Forums now is a memetic dragnet scouring social media and amplifying it while producing very little original content. And while these following board are not immune to this phenomena (quite the opposite in fact), I would say that the only boards that have a noticeable cultural impact on the tubes are /pol/, Yea Forums and maybe Yea Forums. Yea Forums was always thought of as the biggest anime forum online but I don't think it holds the crown now; old Yea Forums used to be very elitist and exclusive but now criticism is frowned upon... it's quite strange to think that this place used to be a Mecca for anime elitism.
>I consider it a good day here when I don't get physically angry at a single thread.
Hear hear. Even threads of comfy shows like Hitoribocchi have become infested with disgusting shitposting and user behave like teenagers. It's disgusting.

>What is the alternative?
If you're looking for other boards, try the other anime boards or go to infinity channel which also has good (better) anime boards.
If you want to keep posting on Yea Forums, just try to avoid threads about popular shows and always strive to be the type of poster you would like to interact with. Avoid meaningless input, posting unfunny cancer, and at the very least learn to sage when posting off-topic stuff as common etiquette.

Yeah, I agree with this. Not exactly that it jumped the shark but it became rather repetitive. The high school wars bullshit would have been cut off from the show completely.

>Jumped the shark
I wonder what you were expecting. Even if the first 12 episodes weren't a giveaway it was going to be crazy, nothing Imaishi has directed would make you think he would make anything other than batshit lunacy.
Saying something "jumped the shark" is also more or less the exact opposite of "boring" anyway

here, showing my collection, because asked.

>1/5

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>I do question if even reddit isn't better than this absolute embarrassment at this point.

For all the issues of some boards.
Not even fucking close, you cannot discuss things on 'popular opinions expressed only withing the PC Ultra Left confide' garbage website that is leddit.

Discus what? "I liek thing." Is the best you can hope for.

2/5

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3/5

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Inuyasha did until like 2002/03

4/5

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5/5

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>all this money that could've gone to the Catholic Church
Nice figmas though.

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That's pretty neat, never seen the big O, been on my to watch list for years. Maybe I should get around to it, since you seem to be a big fan could you tell what about it appeals to you so much?

Honestly digital animation just needs to adapt a couple more tones to reach the next level.

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>replying to bait

i wish, but mods are so lazy they wont even move all of the /soc/ threads that take up 80% of the board to /soc/.
there's no chance of fatefags being banned to /jp/ or /trash/ like they should be
it'd free up 20-30 something spammy shitty threads across a bunch of other boards easy.

Not him. For me there is nothing quite like Big O, it's a bit of an oddity. The art style is glorious, very reminiscent of 90s Batman (the similarity is not incidental by the way) and the music is also great. Speaking of which, OP:
youtube.com/watch?v=s7_Od9CmTu0

Just don't expect it to be extremely profound or anything. Just go expecting to watch a nice little show with an intriguing and pleasant art style. Dorothy is top moe by the way.

> I don't have a good opinion of that board to be honest
Its understandable, but its not that bad. Its not big enough to attract more attention than it needs (If Touhou ever gets really popular with the mainstream you can kiss that goodbye), and most threads actually have a purpose.
>For the longest time, there was this idea that Yea Forums influenced Internet culture, but that dynamic has shifted to social media and YouTube.
Internet culture used to be its own distinct section of overall discourse, but now its just become the means by which everyone uses to communicate. Modern "internet culture", if such a thing even exists, is homogenised to an extent it resembles the rest of society more than anything uniquely its own.
>it's quite strange to think that this place used to be a Mecca for anime elitism
How the tables have turned. I'm still not used to it

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Collector poster here.

is correct. There’s a lot of symbolisms and metaphors. The first season is fantastic with its cyberpunk, film noir setting, it’s dry humor, well written dialog, and clever character designs. The mech fights are amazing, and the soundtrack is very solid.

The second season is mediocre at best, and confusing at worst. The animation takes a dive, since sunrise got enough money from Cartoon Network to make a second season. The reason it was able to get a second season is because it was a huge hit with western audiences. Their budget was VERY limited, so to cut costs, they outsourced their animation to South Korea so it could be animated digitally, therefore saving time and money. but the end product was pretty rushed, and the ending wasn’t as clear cut as the director would’ve liked, but he dealt with what he was given.

The manga isn’t too bad either. It’s similar to the anime, but different events take place as sort of a parallel universe. But, the ending of the manga fell flat for me, leaving me with a “that- that’s it?” Feeling.

/jp/ is 2hu containment you fool.

>When you enter a thread and 50 other anons already laid claim to your obvious joke
OK.

Man Im already missing that Lodoss thread from the other day

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>obvious NEET who doesn’t have income to support loli fetish

Jealous much?

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Good taste user! RoLW’s artwork makes me so happy.

>785 before 2000
seems pretty damn unlikely unless you're both old and from japan
post your list?

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>they did the ACCA 13 backgrounds
Man that was a comfy time.

I hate, hate, hate Owari no Seraph, but that is some gorgeous background art. Top tier.

Because cels use real color and lighting whereas digital is limited by technology.
CRTs had the advantage of "real" lighting and anti-aliasing, where digital is simulated. Digital TVs must simulate what CRT did inherently. Most Digital TVs have shit lighting / black levels and color range so every Digital remaster like are brightened / heightened / recalibrated to compensate for technical limitations of Digital TVs.

Now that raytracing is a commercially available technology we might see better looking digital products.
J/k, publishers and TV makers are cheapasses and won't do anything innovative as long as they can mass-produce garbage.

I fucking hate old mecha but watch pre 2000s stuff almost everyday

Modern coloring just feels like it's too neat and flat. You can tell it was all done by a fill bucket.

With incels interlinked

I'm pretty sure high school dxd has uncensored tits

It depends on the network. A lot of DXD broadcasts where censored to fuck.

Well it still had uncensored tits

Came here to post this

>considering everyone gives a different answer.
Just because people have different explanations on the cause of the Global Financial Crisis doesn't mean they're equally correct.

Came here to post this

anyone can make mindless craziness though, brainlet. It was boring. Watch more anime, hell, watch more content in general.

Was Patlabor 3 one of the last cel anime films?

it came out in 2001 so it probably was close

>Modern "internet culture", if such a thing even exists, is homogenised to an extent it resembles the rest of society more than anything uniquely its own.
How do we get out of this hellhole that the riaju have created

I think what bothers the most about modern anime, more than the whole cel thing even, is just how "Self aware" shit has become. Characters and series are custom built to pander to archetype to a point where we even have said series call out when a character is a tsundere or whatever. Nothing can sit without having everything else point and go THIS IS X CLICHE! We have people who are so "trope" obsessed that they can't look at a story as a whole without breaking it apart like a jigsaw puzzle to find the one meme they can reference on shit hole websites.

People rush through a show hurrying to get it over with so they can add a feather to their MAL cap. "Monster of the week" has died for the sake of LORE fags and nobody can just sit down and enjoy an episode for 20 minutes a week. People refuse to get into stuff they claim to want to be fans of and either stop short or ask people what's okay to skip.

The whole fandom is just as bad as the industry.

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First season of Big O was fucking great, S2 was weak

It had it's moments

>reading comprehension

>I have envangelion cell, this specifically.
>Living on my own
>Mother makes a surprise visit
>Wants to help me clean since it looks like a shithole by her standards
>According to her she just threw unused papers and scribblings to the burner

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I got a bunch of cels from shows too. Most Nadesico, Iria and some Bubblegum Crisis 2040.

Came here to post this

I wanna say it was a Miyazaki movie.

>Its not like the same palettes cant be recreated digitally
They actually can't.
You can't replicate an actual brush digitally.

That looks completely different to the coloring in anime today.
Organic color is much different from sterile digital color.

>the DVD example is how it was expected to look
Retard no.
That's now how it looked on TV when it was original broadcasted.
DVD's usually are trash releases from shitty aging degraded Video Tape masters.

You're wrong though.
DVD looks like shit, the character's hair blends in with the background completely. It's garbage.

Remaster doesn't seem impressive either but it's at least decent compared to the DVD version.

>CRTs had the advantage of "real" lighting and anti-aliasing
This is dumb shit invented by hipsters who don't understand CRT's or tech in general.

That and the higher resolution.
Most anime nowadays is still produced in SD and the movies which are done at 4K all use that shitty style with thin lines.

>Obviously in this day and age using complete hand drawn visuals would cost far too much
It wouldn't cost much more than it back then actually.
The industry just prefers to produce mass quantity of shit nowadays instead of a handful quality anime every year.

The colors look digital? Or is it just me?

>It wouldn't cost much more than it back then actually.
It's a matter of 80s japan economy and 2010s japan economy being completely different

I'd say it's less the economy and more the need to rush out material at a more rapid pace because the gluttonous masses consume media faster than they stuff their gobs these days.

Absolute Kino, visually.

>785
How the fuck is that even possible?

>post your list?
Nice try, tripfag. What's supposed to be unlikely about it? Pre-2000s stretch all the way back to the 20s. There's so much content that requires virtually no time investment (Toei movies, OVAs) it's not hard to reach that amount. There's like 50+ anime every year I haven't seen and likely won't ever touch. I've just checked 1986 and '94: each year has over 110 works still left to watch.
>The industry just prefers to produce mass quantity of shit nowadays instead of a handful quality anime every year.
See above. Shut the fuck up already, mongrel. The anime industry went for quantity over quality ever since the early 80s.

That ain't cel.
That's digital.

Twelve Kingdoms is actually digital, though it's definitely one of the best looking anime of that era due to it being produced natively at 1080 (something very rare for an early digital anime, even Stand Alone Complex didn't have that luxury). Which is why a lot of people can be fooled into thinking it was animated on cels since it carries some of the coloring style of pre 2000 anime.

They switched to digital in recent years.

They weren't and they still do the same work. Nobody was fired. Anime is still drawn on paper.

>very reminiscent of 90s Batman
It looks more like Batman Beyond and The Batman(2004) than TAS.

Most of the greatest /m/echa all aired prior to digital animations take over.

I forgot to add that the native resolution it was produced at is also why its BD remaster is the only remaster of an early digital era anime that doesn't look like fucking shit. Also, SEQUEL FUCKING WHEN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH

I'm not trying to call you out or pick fights I'm genuinely curious how much is actually out there, and you seem to be keeping a relatively accurate count at that.
but if you've actually done it you'd know how much stuff has been lost to the ages

are a large portion of it mecha and sports anime?

>Batman invented art deco.

Casuals.

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>The anime industry went for quantity over quality ever since the early 80s.
You're 100% wrong.
TV Anime never went for quality but the 80s and 90s had like 10 to 12 shows at most per year compared to the 50-60 we get nowadays so because of that the quality was higher.

It's simple math.

>50-60
I am kind of worried about a crash.

I think a good crash is what we need and this goes double for Vidya.

>Which is why a lot of people can be fooled into thinking it was animated on cels since it carries some of the coloring style of pre 2000 anime.
It looks nothing like pre-2000s though.
It looks like most early 2000s anime.

People forget that prior to the HD craze of 2006 where every anime tried to be excessively bright and shiny that digital anime in the 2000s mostly had duller darker colors.
Just look at shows like Monster, Love Hina and such. Heck even shows like Beyblade, Digimon, Yugioh etc. while colorful...they weren't going for those very bright colors.

I'm talking about the character designs.

Yes, it is almost like The Big O had multiple influences. Well done, user. You goddamn pseud.

Honestly this, as much as it sucks.

Drawn in papepr but coloured digitally.

Meh it won't happen.

Back lighting, color palettes, film, and probably a few other things.

Okay? You're still wrong.

Absolutely wrong. Anime industry went for quantity over quality after it switched to production committee model in 00s from anime being produced by tv stations.

No?
Look at Big O's character designs and tell me they don't look like DCAU designs from 1999-2007.

They really look like Batman Beyond and The Batman designs.

More Tomino was like "you guys all work like morons." and everyone there treated it like they were being sent to boot camp while working on it. He even put the actors through their paces because he thought that they all sounded the same.

This tbqh.
Digital anime changed everything.

Hey there fellow ledditors

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While its color pallete is definitely on the bleaker side there are quite a few late 90s anime with similar color palettes, Blue Gender and Bubblegum Crisis 2040 come to mind. Though I agree that to the experienced eye Twelve Kingdoms is definitely digital.

No, they took clearer inspiration from Tetsujin 28 and Giant Robo with strong influences from the workings of Issac Asmimov. There is nothing Batman TAS about it. Not the pseudo realistic designs from the first part and certainly not Timm's lazy copy past bodies from the latter half and Justice Leauge.

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It’s not digital, they’re just that good

How do people working on digital get around the lack of infinite texture variety that you'd get with physical brushes and paints?

Yes. Just compare it the BD version.
The DVD version is a shitty transfer from an old VHS Master Tape...the guy's hair blends in with the background and the background is completely destroyed.

It's the same case with the Hunter x Hunter 1999 DVD transfers. They look horrendous. Only retarded hipsters with no eye for quality think they actually look good when in reality they're just shitty versions that have aged like crapped due to being on a crappy VHS tape for years.

A shame it was absolute dogshit in every way except for animation. I hate mecha but I'm not averse to watching a mecha series if the plot and characters are okay.

>There is nothing Batman TAS about it
Which is what I've been saying all along retard.
I said that it looks like Batman Beyond and The Batman(2004 cartoon).

Batman TAS was 1992 to 1996-7ish
I said that it resembles character design from DCAU 1999-2007(Batman Beyond, The Batman, Teen Titans(2003), Justice League etc.)
Although I would say that the art-style change in Season 4 of Batman TAS is a sort of early prototype of that art-style.

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I dunno, something seems off.

>derides user for supposedly not knowing about Art Deco
>as if knowing about it was some kind of major accomplishment
>posts Metropolis (as if Fritz Lang had invented Art Deco)
>posts an image that doesn't even feature Art Deco
This is quite embarrassing.

If I remember right, some places announced Turn A Gundam as the last full series that used cells.

A bit tragic but a fucking Pokemon film was the last animé or one of the final to use cels. Manaphy and the temple of the sea released in 2006/2007. Though it related heavily in cgi in backgrounds, everything else was done in cels.

Fucking Pokemon, of all things, was the last, RIP cels.

So the main thing that digital can't achieve is color depth? And perhaps the use of alternative colors due to broadcast limitations which contributed heavily to the quality of hand animated cels?

>10 to 12 shows at most per year
'94 had 31 television shows listed on the database I use. '91 had 33. '88 had 30. But nice try. The amount of staff has also increase, similar to the amount of studios. More people work in the industry. Quantity over quality would imply same staff, more anime. But that's not the case.
>but if you've actually done it you'd know how much stuff has been lost to the ages
But it's not even that much?! If you use Nyaa, rutracker, AB and PTP, you can find most of the works you're looking for in at least some substandard DivX encode at 80mb an episode. Was even easier when ADC was still around. It's rare for me to not find what I want to watch, and is usually limited to some obscure shorts or works that never received a home video release.
>are a large portion of it mecha and sports anime?
I don't know. Depends on what you define as mecha. For example: are works like Tetsuwan Atom, Casshern, Gatchaman mecha? I'd say no, but many people will say yes. Sports anime I rarely touch, and if I do they are terrible (Princess Nine, Tiger Mask, Dragon League, any Adachi). There were more than now, but I am not sure if I'd consider that a large portion. It's all relative.
Maybe you should actually watch some anime. You clearly haven't seen a noteworthy amount of all the garbage they've produced during the 80s and 90s. Garbage with no noteworthy qualities of any sort. Stop consuming animation based on rec charts.

The funniest thing is that it has absolutely jackshit to do with the character design.

You see, it’s funny because the OP was talking about hand-drawn animation, but in a clever bit of misdirection, this poster posted an anime that almost certainly uses digital images over traditional cels but is about “cells” as in the human body, which is a homophone and therefore a play on words.

*incels

>Sports anime I rarely touch, and if I do they are terrible
Preach it, brother. Tiger Mask is campy, campy fun though.

Unlike the other shitpost, this made me laugh. But you should have started your post with "TL Note:"

>I said that it resembles character design from DCAU 1999-2007(Batman Beyond, The Batman, Teen Titans(2003), Justice League etc.)

Except Big O came out in 1999 as well. And really? THE Batman? Not only did that come out in 2004 it was also hot garbage.

>'94 had 31 television shows listed on the database I use.
What database?
Though thinking about it that might have been 10-12 anime per season(these were numbers from the late 90s btw) which explains your numbers(i.e there were about 6-7 shows per season in 1994).

In 2018 there was almost 200 anime produced and that's just TV Anime.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_in_anime#Television_series

I just said that it resembles it not that it ripped it off autismo.
And Batman Season 4 and The New Batman Adventures came out in 1995-1997 period..somewhere along those lines.

In any case it's clear the art-style is very western inspired compared to the average anime.

Noir is nothing new

It's because the painting is muddy. If you look at it at thumbnail size it's not really readable, there are no clear shapes except for a dark blotch at the bottom which is actually an unlit side of the bridge rather than a key point of interest. There are two highlights but the most prominent one is just one of the many identical streetlights and pulls the eye away from the castle entrance. Muddiness plagues digital era shows regardless of the tools used to make them.

Starjewels.

sounds like a lot of it has been resurfacing then, which is fantastic.
I've been watching anime since the bootleg tape days and had more or less given up on getting raws for a lot of pre-80s stuff little less subbed.

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I think that's right, Redline was drawn in cels but coloured digitally. The Pokemon AG films were cels 100% with some use of CGI with certain stuff.

While not the last, I think 2003 Astro Boy is a great example of early 00's cel.

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What's wrong with the green colours?

>What database?
Anilist, so it's likely even more since their database is dogshit.
>In 2018 there was almost 200 anime produced and that's just TV Anime.
Yes, but there's also like X times the amount of people working in the industry now. Back in the day, most movies had a single sakkan. Now they have 10. Back in the day, animators also created cult followings by animating entire episodes on their own, e.g. Takashi Nakamura drawing all the key animation for various Gold Lightan episodes on his own. Amount of people working in the industry drastically increased over the decades. There's more people, and therefore there are more anime. It's a stagnation in quality and an increase in quantity. The distribution simply is a tad different. Nowadays televison animation is of higher quality, but movies are hit or miss. Albeit shovelware shit like Legend of the Millenium Dragon is still more impressive visually than most pre-2000s films.

There's a lot of false information being spread. For example: People always claim for hand painted backgrounds to be less common now because of a lack of budget. But that's not true. Hand painted was the norm back then, because it was a) cheap and b) the only method available.

Nowadays it's a stylistic choice. Miyazaki has his backgrounds handpainted, and Takahata had a lot of them digitally edited for Kaguya because it allowed him to test all the different color palettes. Shinkai doesn't need to pay attention to budget, yet his background are photoshop shit (iirc). Directors even change this up depending on film. Yuasa's recent Otome had flash backgrounds, while Lu had handpainted ones. And they were released during the same year.

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Again, has nothing to do with the character designs aka the drawing style you idiot.

There're various fansub groups dedicating their time to some lesser available works. It doesn't matter to me, but it's still nice to see. A lot of stuff has gotten Bluray remasters over the course of the past few years, one of the reasons why I actually bothered to watch more pre-2000s anime. If what you're looking for are old anime, AB really has most of them.

Although there are still a lot of television anime that are only available as some prehistoric DVD/VHS rips, movies and OVAs have received a lot of love recently. Even shit like Creamy Mami OVAs did. And those are by no means good, nor do they sport any noteworthy animation.

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>Redline was drawn in cels but coloured digitally
That's not cel animation.
Cel animation refers to stuff painted by hand.

Redline is digitally animated.
Drawn on paper and colored on computer just like modern anime.
The Pokemon AG Films were digital too.

Do you even know what a cel is and how it was used in animation? It doesn't sound like you do.

Why was early digitally animated anime(2001-2006/2007)were too dull or too saturated in the colours?

>but there's also like X times the amount of people working in the industry now
Which means fuck all.
The overall budget isn't any higher across all of these shows.

Point is that if 50 million dollars were dedicated to 35 shows back then, now you get like maybe 80 million dollars dedicated to almost 200 shows per year. And let's not forget that seiyuus are more diva than ever and get paid more than they used to.

>Point is that if 50 million dollars were dedicated to 35 shows back then, now you get like maybe 80 million dollars dedicated to almost 200 shows per year.
[citation needed]

Because the world didn't go crazy yet and we were still using CRT's so they didn't feel the need to make everything obnoxiously garish/bright looking.

It was an example not specific numbers.
But that's what basically happened. It's not like the anime industry is thriving nowadays or anything.

NAYRT but yeah, Lucario and Manaphy were digitally coloured and that it was just a rumour because of the bizarre colouring, only Deoxys and Jirachi and their corresponding shorts were made with cels I think.

Lati@s were also digital too so I don't why they went back for cels for those two.

[citation needed]

I heard early digital is a pain in the ass to remaster.
Is that true?

Jesus that's smooth.

More like: It's impossible to remaster unless you have the drawings. Cel animation was shot on film, hence the cels could be disposed of afterwards. That's why you see them being sold in online auctions. If you want to remaster the thing, all you need is the film. Storing the film takes no more than a few cm on some random shelf. Digital anime are drawn on paper and then colored on a computer. Their resolution is limited by the available scanner technology. That creates a problem. If you want to remaster them, you need all the drawings and rescan them at a higher resolution. Have fun storing a hundred thousand pieces of paper for 15-20 years and avoid any of them being damaged or lost. Borderline impossible, especially because of studio mergers etc. Studio 4C can remaster all thier shit because they've been around for 25 years and, apparently, store and archive their works appropriately. Most others didn't.

>Maybe you should actually watch some anime. You clearly haven't seen a noteworthy amount of all the garbage they've produced during the 80s and 90s. Garbage with no noteworthy qualities of any sort. Stop consuming animation based on rec charts.
I didn't say there weren't some lousy shows back then, I said the industry went quantity over quality after it switched to production committee model and started mass-producing anime. There's ten times as many studios now and ten times as much anime being made as in 80s and 90s, and most of it is absolute garbage with no vision, soul, passion or purpose.

Ahhh,this is why the SEED remasters sucked ass.

Pokemon Advance (the TV anim not the movie series) is digitally animated yet the Japanese DVD and broadcasts have a bizarre filter added in up to AG103 where noise and grain has been purposefully added to make Pokemon Advance look more like Kanto/Johto. It's very obvious because they FORGET to put in the fake noise and fake grain when there are cut-in shots or in the opening/endings.

From looking at images of the AG movies, they look very cel-like with warmer colours (Jessie has red hair like on the cel animated episodes yet in the TV show she has purple hair) and there's a huge noticable change between Manaphy and Darkrai, the latter is obviously digitally coloured. And several wikis state that M08+9 were made with cels so I guess that Manaphy and Lucario were indeed cels for some scenes, it must be difficult for it be 100% cels with all the shitty CGI in those films.

>some lousy shows
Again, actually go and watch some anime instead of shitposting on Yea Forums. There weren't SOME lousy shows. Most of them were dogshit on all fronts the same way they are today.
That's why most digital bluray remasters are nothing but them applying some sharpening algorithm, yes.

pre-production cels are not the same.

this thread is mostly about animation where you can see the 'grain' of the film
though there are some that are digitally recorded while on cels like spirited away, the majority are very easy to tell since they're from before the 5~ gap where everything switched over to digital.

plastic little was already very nice and smooth, I forgot the name of the technique used there but it's basically a digital re-rendering technique to add in 'averaged out' frames, like an auto-inbetweener of sorts.

Attached: plastic little the best breasts in anime.webm (720x480, 2.7M)

You need to be 18 to post in this board.

Moot was like 16 when he made this website. That rule has never been relevant.

>Their resolution is limited by the available scanner technology
This is not really a problem anymore these days.
Could easily get 8k or even 16k scanners now but anime companies are cheap and still produce most anime in 480p or some shitty meme resolution like 900p.

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are you under 18 user

>I forgot the name of the technique used there but it's basically a digital re-rendering technique to add in 'averaged out' frames, like an auto-inbetweener of sorts.
Interpolation. Yeah, I would be very surprised if it wasn't.

Character designs are 100% noir are you a daft retard?

>Japanese DVD
I'm pretty sure Pokemon doesn't really get released on DVD's in Japan.

Darkrai is Diamond and Pearl territory what are you talking about?

Sazae San is the last IIRC.

IIRC, the industry standard is around $250k per episode, so it's more like 600m for 200 one cour 20 minute per episode shows, not counting the marketing budget which I know nothing about.

The fuck does that even mean?

Should I watch Legend of Lemnear?

>the industry standard is around $250k per episode
I'm very skeptical about this.
If it even is that sum...how much of it gets spent on the voice actors and merchandise?

I think what that user meant was that DP (Darkrai-Zoroark) is where they started to use digital colouring. There's indeed a big difference in the look of those films.

The Pikachu shorts stopped cels after Gotta Dance but came back for that bizarre haunted house short then back to digital colouring since.

Also AG was pretty much 100% collected into DVDs. The same for BW being collected into DVDs.

Maybe I am 12, maybe I am 40. Who knows. I'd still like this clown to stop spreading false information he pulled out of his ass. That's the problem with this board: People are proud of being ignorant. They call the pre-2000s great, yet have seen 20 anime. They claim for handpainted to have stopped existing because it's more expensive, when it's still very much being utilized but entirely depends on the stylistic choices made by the director. Most of them don't even realize that digital animation is still drawn on paper.
I was responding to a post asking about early digital. And no, the phenomenon you're referring to doesn't necessarily exist because they are cheap.

1) many anime have cleaner looks and higher resolutions for their bluray remasters, this gives people an incentive to actually buy the discs
2) sometimes it's artistic choice, like the retarded director of Megalo Box who purposely produced his show at 200p because he thought it'd emulate the feel of the 70s or something

>Legend of Lemnear
not for the story but I quite enjoyed most of the visuals
45 minutes isn't much wasted time

>i am 12
seeya kid

I always thought the AG films looked like shit.
Heck the AG series as a whole look like shit and was boring too.
The Lucario movie was the only good one.

DP was such a massive improvement...especially in the movies.

Came here to post this

Personally only Jirachi looked good, Deoxys looked really outdated (and is a really shit film even by Pokemon standards), Lucario is good both story and animation wise and Manaphy is same as Deoxys. I agree with you, the DP series was such a gigantic improvement because at least the film's didn't look like they came from the 80's. The human designs got shit during gen 4 IMO.

As for the AG animé, the Hoenn part was good except for Magma-Aqua arc and Battle Frontier was a big trainwreck.

>Implying Pokémon could compare to any other animé

Mods, you fucks, what is wrong with you?

Cells at work.

>The human designs got shit during gen 4 IMO
You mean Gen 5?
DP was Gen 4 and I thought humans looked fine there. Dawn is a favorite of mine(best Pokegirl imo).

Deoxys and Jirachi both look cheap, almost TV special quality.
As for Manaphy and Lucario films I'm very mixed on the colors of those movies. They just look too brown if you know what I mean.

Funny I remember liking Battle Frontier the best out of the AG stuff but that's just me.

The humans were alright in DP just not to the standard of late gen2-gen3.

Deoxys especially looks really really bad. I know that the international release of Lati@s as well the the AG films had horrible quality compared to their Japanese version, I really did like the Jirachi film's look though. The Lucario movie looks far better than the English DVDs of you watch an altered version of them or the Japanese versions. The Battle Frontier had some potential, it started out more like it was going to be a longer arc and after Noland it became hyper speed with good contest/Frontier episodes but fillers rivaling Johto.

I have no idea why they went with cels when they had finally moved to digital colouring in the Johto league arc. You'd think it'd waste talent and money.

Hello

Bye

Don't they make cels for anime movies then give them away with the movie tickets for the premiere? And then they get sold in eBay for an arm and a sibling?

Any comparison shots?
I just remember them looking very brown when I saw them on Cartoon Network.
I still jacked off to May in a bikini though.

I'm amazed modern anime don't do it now and then for marketing hype like the recent wave of practical effects in film. Must really be a dead art.

God awful resource consuming is what it is. Comparing anime to multi million dollar film budgets is a stretch

Too concerned with cheap labor and immediate profits from cutting corners everywhere they can. But also the budgets are not the same. But what is more frustrating is companies like Disney with infinite budget and time not doing this. Could be making modern masterpieces and instead their only concern is making quick money.

or you can hire a shitty animator for 5 yen, make a shitty idol anime and sell merchs

Nice strawman. Just because anyone could direct in any style doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to gleam what the general feel of an anime is going to be from looking at who the director is.
>watch more content in general
I hope you're not talking about western Yea Forums crap. Pre 2000s movies can be a great time, but I can't think of a medium more insipid, vapid and contemptable than western live-action television

As others have mentioned, there's simply not the budget, but there's also just not the audience. Merchandising, as you probably know, are where the majority of revenue comes from, and the group that spends the most on it is always teenagers. I'd find it very difficult to believe the average 15yo cares enough about animation inherently to support a production on the basis of it using traditional techniques. I doubt many even realise a difference between cel vs digital aesthetics

theres only one studio that comes to mind that could do that, but even ghibli doesnt

>implying tits with actual nips on them

>making these assumptions
>probably hasn’t seen Batman the Animated series.
>tfw this post

He was talking about animation styles, you retard.

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Since you mention them, I've noticed this weird frame jutter that happens in all the post-digital Ghibli rips I have, almost like they were still scanning film prints. I don't think it's a problem with my computer because it only happens on Ghibli films.

Attached: Ghibli frame bobbing.webm (1000x386, 2.04M)

Why they ALL use cells.
Cells are a part of every living organism, and living organisms are what make anime, including the organisms that have no life like most anime fans.

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which film is that from? it's looks like it has film grain

The Wind Rises.

It was a while ago that I watched it but it just felt like that aside from the actions scenes it had nothing interesting, and not liking action meant it had nothing interesting to me. In the end all I recall is a collection of dull or annoying characters and a story that amounted to nothing more than a group of bad guys being faced in sequence.
It feels like the amount of stuff happening on screen was supposed to be interesting, but for me I just found it boring.

Japanese version

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International version, zoomed in and has yellow/brown tint. Lat@s film intl version has blue/green tint and heavy jitter which really damages the film since the original is so pretty.

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didnt have that one on hand so i'm downloading it now
>8gigs
might take a while, kinda annoying but at least it'll be good quality

got a time stamp for that bit? also looks like some animation errors on the corner of that table

Time stamp doesn't matter, it happens for the duration of the film.

Would you watch a new idol anime if it was a high budget cel production then?
I'm sure most of the people that complain about it wouldn't watch half of the series coming out even if they were all made like a high budget 80s OVA.
While I'd be interested to see what a modern CGDCT anime would look like done in that style I doubt it would change many opinions on either side.

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The animation isn't the only reason. First the economic slow down in Japan meant less big budget OVAs and more trend chasing single cour shit. Superflat shading became popular the same way 3/4ths profile became popular in Hanna-Barbera cartoons. S-Video and LaserDisc never gained mainstream adoption so we never realized that our digitized encodings of old VHS were super washed out. You can see this when you find photos of the original cels and they're all very vibrant. Finally modern studio apply heavy filters to maintain uniformity which really does wash all the vibrant color out. Only in big budget movies do animation directors even second guess these practices.

Last the thing people mainly appreciate about cels is that with analog painting/drawing even a flat shadow and linework will have some granularity from pen/brush strokes and thickness, and most will not go out of their way to emulate that by adding irregularity to their brush tools settings.

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Yes but there will be a metrosexual little boy in very tiny shorts running around for the target audience to stand-in for so they can sell toys.

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You're applying a strange double standard. I'm sure some people would watch that hypothetical series, but just because someone doesn't support a production that has one particular thing they care about doesn't mean they're a hypocrite. If the aesthetics were the ony thing people cared about, there's more than enough existing anime to last, if not a lifetime, at least a very long time

alright, would be helpful if you know the rough timeframe even though, I'm basically trying to guess if they're just using filters to simulate the feel of the older films
or autistically inkjet printing out every frame onto cels
if you look at the knee it's a bit of a guess on that webm if its an alpha layer or a smudge of paint
the tables corner changes size repeatedly, which would be very odd for digital, sloppy even
they'd have to manually erase in each frame when they could just block out that area once
it would strike me as very odd if they were still using cels to some level and not having it well known
I know they hand draw stuff, ponyo had 170000 frames
but even if they were to record the frames with film, and digitally colour afterwards I shouldn't be able to see film grain on spots digitally coloured, even if they used removal techniques to slide in the backgrounds.
if they used filters that would mean film grain would be thicker on some parts than others
so that would mean they'd have to either like
print out the cels after colouring them and then record then make the interns slave away manually recording each frame to get that grain and wobble
or purposely digitally add the wobble just to fuck with people and use a negative technique to counter the film grain filter (which I highly doubt given the table corner)

Attached: this kind of shit makes me feel like I have autism.png (3596x1080, 2.15M)

I wonder if 10 years from now pathtracing will make CG not shit?

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Came here to post this

>Hol up I don't remember this part.
>BDs add anything else?
BDs add teeth to her nipples

I took it from 1:00:14.

I'm just talking about the entire frame bobbing up and down, fix your eye on any one point in the image in a static shot and it bobs up and down like it's made with a telecine.

The same thing happened with Cowboy Bebop, whether or not the original cels were like this, the BD release had much brighter, more washed out colouring. Incidentally, the new colouring originated from a DVD rerelease before the BDs even came out.

Will there ever be an anime made with cels again? I feel like it has the possibility of making a comeback somehow.

Haven't rewatched it in years, when does that happen?

table-kun, come on user

>If the aesthetics were the ony thing people cared about
Some of these threads do make me wonder. While I know some of the "visual medium" posters are trolls I worry some are actually being serious.
Also while it's hard to judge the amount of people that only care about aesthetics we can at least see lots of people that will instantly dismiss series due to 3DCG to show how big a factor it can be for many.

In Japan, it was Sazae-San in 2015. In America (Canada), it was Ed, Edd, and Eddy in 2004.

Cel animation was draw with real colors,with real texture, by hand, in real textures like cel or paper, real lighting, back lighting and separated layers.
Digital anime is made in a shitty computer screen, with shitty fake colors (normally just using the bucket tool in an area) and using crappy filters to hide how hideous it looks. Also they are using more and more 3D and rotoscoping crap which makes it even worse.

man this shit is whack
the filmgrains composited over the whole film but you can see it being on the wrong layers at points
can even easily see in stills, all the colouring has the grain but the back ground is missing it entirely.
the jittering you noticed does happen the entire movie and is in a consistent pattern that loops just under 4 seconds to make the film look like it's.. Breathing?
this is actually very interesting thank you for bringing it up.
they must have spent a fair bit of time figuring out how to do this after, or even during, spirited away.

when disney tried it with princess and the frog it was a pretty big flop
they obviously wanted it to flop because of costs or else they'd have used a different movie to test the grounds

Attached: filmgraininconsistencies.png (1920x1040, 3.32M)

If someone wanted to make a modern cel anime as a passion project how hard would it be?
Aging skilled experienced staff would be an issue but how hard would it be to get all the materials and equipment?

Its not though there are literally cel errors in it you retard especially that screenshot

>a consistent pattern that loops just under 4 seconds to make the film look like it's.. Breathing?
I'm glad I'm not crazy then. Also noticed it in Marnie and if I'm not mistaken it carried over to Ponoc's new film as well. Makes me motion sick to be honest.

So you specifically dislike action but you decided to watch a show that gushes action and spectacle from its pores. Odd choice my friend, maybe you didn't know what trigger makes. Sorry you wasted your time.

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It's expensive as hell. Hundreds of thousands, at least.

I'm willing to give things a chance as I've been surprised by things outside of my usual tastes before. By now I know that a decent indicator for me not liking something like that is when the terms hype and badass are used a lot to describe it.
I don't feel it was a waste of time to find out if something that is highly regarded here does anything for me though and it's valuable to know that I can just wait for trigger to make something like LWA again.

Attached: Flip Flappers 03.webm (1280x720, 3M)

Wasn't the MUNTO OVA CEL animated?

Brilliant

Path tracing has been industry standard for years. I work as adtech engineer, we make CG tv spots among other things.

The issue is the custom tooling. You spend tons of money on maya, plugins for whatever subfield you're working on, rendering engines, material libraries and a whole render farm but you still would be leagues from actually being able to crank out anything.
Artists need support to have their common workflows scripted, terabytes of assets have to be managed and the render farm needs to be used efficiently.

If your shop only consists of artists and other grunts you're dependent on the knowledge they bring and what you can acquire on the market and will fall short of what's technically possible or do things inefficiently.

TL;DR: most anime studios are too small to use CGI to its fullest

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>Odd my today's standards.
I'm stealing this.

There's more to it than the palette. Look at the tips of her hair to the lower left. There's some red-brown paint inside the lines. Now look at lines of her hair, first over her hand, then over her forehead. Conclusion:
>Cel-shading was actually cel-PAINTING
All caps because it seems like everyone misses this point.

Obviously but could they get and do everything they needed to if they had the money?
Obviously film is still around but do the camera systems for the cels still exist?
Are cels still easy to get? Paint? etc
I figure if you have the money for a new cel anime why not shoot for 70mm film

>Cel-shading
Stop misusing terms

>Cel-shading was actually cel-PAINTING
Cel-shading is a term that's never used for actual cel animation. Its used for 3D animation for shading styles that delibrately try to repilcate the look/feel of cel animation

As bad as Yea Forums is, at least its not Yea Forums tier. At this point Yea Forums is a lost cause from every angle.

Niche animes and mangas are the only reason I still visit this place.

Came here to post this

Maybe not inception, but its been around long enough for the people who remember the Velox comics and Fall Semester Mike to be considered oldfags.

"CEL - shading" is also used to describe that non-photorealistic, blocky shading. Even popular fan artists like Hyanna Natsu use the term that way, newfag.

youtube.com/watch?v=rylWAD6i0Mc

Big O's style looked similar to the "Gotham Knights" episodes of Batman TAS. Hell the outsourced episodes were made by the same damn studio that made Big O.

youtube.com/watch?v=aGZ4Z1L49_o

>fan artist
Well EXCOOOSE ME. Far be it from I to criticize the usage improper use of terminology by fan artists when the term has always been specifically been used to describe a style of 3D texturing.

>Even popular fan artists like Hyanna Natsu use the term that way
This doesn't make it any less wrong of a term. Does literally not mean literally now because use the word instead of figuratively? Is the phrase "could care less" correct now because people erroneously believe it to be right?
Even if fucking Hayao Miyazaki, Mamoru Oishii and Walt Disney used the term cel-shading this way, it wouldn't make it right

>hen the term has always been specifically been used to describe a style of 3D texturing
What is the style the grading this technique is emulating? That is also what the term is used to describe, even if informally. You know what people mean, stop pointless arguing over semantics.

It's especially telling because nobody brought up one of the single most important factors:

Cels used actual paints and not just a random RGB color. Actual pigments put into binders, and then lit up and shot with a camera. This, on so many levels, limits color vibrancy. Simply put, getting 100% saturation for a frame of digital animation is trivial. Click, done. You not only have red, you have a red so saturated that printing it on paper would require special printing equipment. And while screens suck at displaying blacks and whites these days, they've gotten really good at displaying color vibrancy.

Getting that same perfect red for cel animation requires having a pigment that saturated (which will invariably, at the very least, be very expensive.) and then having the gear for it. Have foreground layers? Congrats, the clear plastic will cut the saturation and diffuse the cel below it just a little bit. Lightbulbs for camera too warm/ too cold? That'll throw it off. Paint was left to oxidize for too long? Sorry buddy.

In some ways it is the laziness of modern animation; "I want Red so I'm picking the Reddest Red!" versus animators painting on cels knowing they're chosing whether they want Cadmium, Cinnabar, something else or a mixture of several different pigments. It's inherent to the decision making process for painting on cels that yeah, you're probably not using the pure color. This also leads to a lot of time spent making batches of consistently used paints, like the paints you see used for Domo's headband.

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I don't think anything you've said is wrong, but I don't think the other arguments like "its because of VHS", "its because of CRTs" etc. are nessecarily wrong. All these elements worked together to create that color aesthetic we're familiar with, so I think to fully attribute it to only one facet of its creation (even if it is the largest) wouldn't be right.

What's the time period this documentary is set in?

if someone wanted to make a short 30 second animation, it would be equivalent to painting an entire art gallery by yourself.
the materials have never been expensive, and the equipment needed never really was all that bad either
it's the man hours and the space it takes to efficiently produce something

if you remember the 90s 3d animation show 'reboot' it was expected that someone working on that show would be producing 30 seconds of footage on their own per week.
that means it took 40 people one week to produce 30 minutes of extremely janky animation
youtube.com/watch?v=6X7CFlJK0z4

so I really cannot fathom how long it would take a single person to do a passion project with fully painted traditional animation cels.

the crt argument is one used by gamers trying to sound smart
look at the pixel animation done on crt's and compare them to on an lcd, it's accurate in this case, but no not everything works like mario

what that user said is the entire cause
to know that all you need to do is look at a cel
the colours will be just as the media, with the only differences being the lighting of the photo

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Makes sense. I was thinking along the lines of non-proprietary raytracing should become viable on desktop graphics hardware in just a few years. The first place that's going to be utilized is game engines. With that, making professional grade CG should be as easy as using SFM or Gmod.

It's not the display, it's the storage and encoding method. NTSC and composite video are terrible for color accuracy, and most people have no idea how to get interlaced videos to display correctly on modern monitors.

Is all of Redline drawn? which bits are cgi? I assume all the cars are at least partially cgi

Came here to post tits

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I'm not sure if you understand what I meant. It's not really about the speed or the hardware needed at which you render something to a certain quality level. I mean sure, it also matters, especially when you need to redo things in a late stage of the pipeline, but it's not the biggest of all bottlenecks. And I suspect even less so in anime where scenes aren't super-complex.

In the day-to-day work it's mostly about automating the stupendously small and repetitive steps.
I can't comment much on where exactly the difficulties lie for anime, our VFX guys mostly deal with inanimate objects or use mocap or greenscreens when they need humans. One good example comes to mind though, stitches on rendered clothes. We had to write a plugin that instances geometry for every single loop. Textures and normal maps didn't cut it for closeups. Now they can simply drag a line over the base mesh and it creates the stitches, saves them a ton of manual work.
It's this kind of workflow optimization that increases productivity, but you can only afford to do that when you have enough people. There also are other economies of scale, e.g. reusable assets, better utilization of your render farm when you have a steady project pipeline.

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There isn't going to be an incentive for automating until the shitboxes animators work on can handle it. I agree it's less hardware and more software.

Oh, I totally forgot I had that image in the buffer. What I wanted to add, most of the time artists work on a simplified preview of a scene that's just rendered with OpenGL. They don't actually do raytracing on their boxes all that often. Some still use CPU-based rendering, which can take a minute or so to even show something (grainy) on a complex thing.

So RTX acceleration is welcome, and might change how people work, but right now the artists mostly work in GL preview mode, occasionally in RT preview mode. RT full quality renderings don't happen on their workstations, that happens on the renderfarm.

None of the cars are cgi, unless you're counting paint, which is why its such a beloved movie

Thanks for the clarification!

Redpill me on cells. How do they work and why did they stop using them?

user, you're using cells right now.

Digital is cheaper and easier to use. That's why they stopped using cels.

>all these retards pretending to know what they're talking about
It's literally because of the film stock used to transfer the cell animation

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Do cells look better?

Sometimes

Oh okay. I personally don't notice I guess. I do however prefer hand drawn animation. The overabundance of CGI is ruining anime

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>Do cells look better?
Red blood cells are kinda cute. But cancer cells are quite ugly.

How much for the Ren and Stimpy VHS?

why is she so beautiful bros.

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This thread has convinced me that the cels vs digital argument is 100% subjective.
You guys keep going on about how warm it all looks but all I see is a muddy, desaturated mess. I'll take modern digital anime over cel stuff any day.
Though, I have to admit I miss when backgrounds had more texture to them.

You're visually retarded.

it is subjective, but not all opinions are equal, and yours is shit.

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>This thread has convinced me that the cels vs digital argument is 100% subjective
No one apart from idiots claim their taste is objective. Especially when terms like "warm" are used, which is the most non-descript adjective you can use to describe visuals. Literally all you can learn from something being described as "warm" is what half of the saturation scale its on. No-one prefaces their posts with "this is all my opinion by the way" because that much should go without saying

Any non-shit artist in digital medium already builds a palette of colors though, none of which are going to be #FF0000.

I really wanted to like Thunderbolt outside of the art but it was pretty dogshit.

But that's still not going to change the tendency towards higher saturation in digital artwork.

>How do they work
You paint on clear plastic, and overlay that to make animation happen. Character sells go on top of the background and that way you don't have to repaint the whole background every frame when animating characters.

That's a big part of the topic of discussion. It's ultimately subjective and depends on the anime and how it's used.

Theoretically, CGI could look great. It's being used to save costs, though, and like with the switch to digital over cells, the best artistic use would probably be to combine multiple methods while considering which is best in which situation.

Not necessarily, but it definitely has the possibility to restrain it from the extreme example he described.

Any anime running in the early 00s would have been transitioning. Episode 260 in 2002 of pokemon was it's last one that used cels. Ed, Edd n Eddy was the last Yea Forums show to use cels.

Will japs be able to understand this level of wordplay

What's so bad about pokemon being the last one?

The extreme example I described still happens though. Christ I have a degree in a similar field and getting people to behave about not using heavy saturation takes a beating man.

Beyond that it's not a response to the notion that everyone uses it excessively, it's a response to why colors used to be more warm. Back then muted palettes wasn't even a choice. Then on top of that add incompetence.

>babies first ntr

Its less about it being bad, and more anti-climactic. Emotionally you would want the last fully cel-animated work to be a glorious send off to the style, an encapsulation of all its greatest strengths as a last hurrah. It sounds romantic in your head, but the likelihood of reality lining up in that way is pretty slim

that's life

>that's life
>the likelihood of reality lining up in that way is pretty slim
Was I not clear or something?

you were, calm down dude

>so I really cannot fathom how long it would take a single person to do a passion project with fully painted traditional animation cels.

heres some kinomation its done with paint on glass rather than cels 80% of the animation was done by one dude the film took two years too complete
youtube.com/watch?v=NNCxNntn2yc

I always like seeing japs hard at their work.
even when they're being treated like literal slaves and they do their work so meticulously you'd mistake them for actually loving what they do.

>two years
Meaningless without knowing how much time he put in during those years, though. What matters is manhours.

HIV does that

How is it anticlimatic? When Pokemon is what made weeb shit popular in the west? It's the reason this place even exists.

This shit apparently used Cel's into the early 10's.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sazae-san

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>Pokemon is what made weeb shit popular in the west
Hello, newfag. Are you sure you're old enough to post here?

>When Pokemon is what made weeb shit popular in the west?

Is this nigga serious? I know pokefags are retarded but this is just special retardation.

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This has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. Did they actually used to draw every single frame of the anime from scratch? God damn. That’s just lame and it would hold back so many good ideas. There’s be so much less anime if this was still a thing and modern animation can imitate that style either way so it literally doesn’t even matter.

>Because /m/ consists first of foremost of ironic weebs who hate modern anime. They don't watch anything and they have the knowledge of a seasonal newfag. Most of them didn't even watch anything beyond the most acclaimed titles of their favourite subgenre. And they aren't /m/ goons. They are /m/aggots.
That's actually Yea Forums

>would hold back so many good ideas.

I'll bite. Like what?

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I see you've been on /m/, which is great, because weeb scum belongs to Yea Forums

>This has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. Did they actually used to draw every single frame of the anime from scratch?
welcome to animation before digital. it worked because the economy could afford it.
>That’s just lame and it would hold back so many good ideas.
such as?
>modern animation can imitate that style either way so it literally doesn’t even matter.
not with current technology it doesn't.

>Like what?
Well, look at the "great" ideas prevalent in anime right now. Like ... isekai and moe stuff and isekai and sounen adaptations and isekai. You couldn't have any of those with cels!

never*

Ironically, anime was much more imaginative in past decades. Congratulations, retard zoomer.

>we're getting children so young that they don't even know the absolute basics of how animation is made
christ.

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Moe is practically dead, unless you use it so broadly as to basically mean "anything about cute girls". Isekai's prevalence at the moment reflects in increase in light novel adaptations and a change in the way light novels are created, it doesn't relate to changes in anime other than that.
Shounen has always been the dominant demographic, especially in terms of viewership and therefore money invested, but we're actually seeing an increase in anime of other demographics these days. There's even a josei anime made nearly once a year these days.

He's clearly trolling, I can tell from some of the verbage and from having seen quite a few trolls in my time.

>Moe is practically dead, unless you use it so broadly as to basically mean "anything about cute girls"
Different user, but moe has always been a very vague term that's changed a lot throughout anime's history. Now its used to describe general aesthetics, but it can also be used to describe specific reactions towards individual character/archetypes or just towards a character in general. The "moeblob" style might not be prevalent anymore, but that's not the only place that feeling can surface. As long as audiences continue to like cute girls, "moe" as a term will too

Yes, user, that was the point: None of those are actually "great" ideas. That's how irony works.

Post here to came this

That was the point, and the post you're responding to is indicating that it's a stupid or at best misleading point, since the examples range for irrelevant to untrue.

That's called passion, something Americans used to have at 1 point. Even Walt Disney leased his own house to pay for the production cost of one of his movies, the animation industry in general was super series back in the day. People would put their entire life's work into animation for something that probably wasn't even going to do good.

i came on this post

You haven't understood a thing. But that's okay. Keep being retarded.

>That's called passion
Caring about what you work for goes a long way, perhaps the most notable example in recent years being One Punch Man's consistent animation quality being the result of proper scheduling and passion rather than an increased animation budget, but I'd argue the bigger factor is money. Its a fact I don't think a lot of people are comfortable with acknowledging, but money flowing generally makes things better. During Japan's economic boom in the 80s, production comittees could just throw funds around to basically any production, since they had enough of a safety net with spare funds and a wealhy customer base, that if even 1 of 10 (I don't know exact numbers obviously, its just a figure of speech) productions were successes they would make their losses back. As soon as you take that out, a higher ratio of productions have to be commerical successes to keep studios afloat, and so there's less room for creators to actually make what they want. That may more or less just be the same thing as passion under a different name, but the semantics are actually important enough to compartmentalise these two things.
>thanks for the history lesson everyone already knew user
Judging from the responses in the thread, what may be common knowledge to you and me might not be for a lot of people in this thread, and there's never been anything wrong with saying something for posterity's sake

>>"they can easily, they just don't feel like it"
is the answer, obviously with digital colouring you can choose any colors you want

Well, ease is a vague concept though. It's easy if you have the artistic skill and judgement to do so, but judgement can be considered one of the most difficult things to learn and to evaluate for when hiring.

well okay, it's not EASY, it would take some effort to reproduce what anime looked like with paints and cells accurately, the point is they can do it, because digital means you can do anything you want, there just isn't any point in doing so
old anime has its own vibe and they did generally spend more time on the animation but you can't really say the coloring itself is objectively better, there isn't any reason for doing so outside of nostalgias sake

>but judgement can be considered one of the most difficult things to learn and to evaluate for when hiring
This. The entire cel aesthetic could be perfectly replicated, warts and all, with film grain, dust caught between cels, smudging, scratches, visisble brush strokes and more limited color palettes etc., but there's few people that actually would do that. Even if those perceived imperfections are aspects people like, its going to be hard to justify re-creating those things when they all were either mistakes or limiations, and you have all the possibilities of digital effects that literally couldn't be done before. Even knowing for certainty that audiences would respond positively towards it, I don't think many people would go through with the decision

>The entire cel aesthetic could be perfectly replicated
No it can't. Also, you're being beyond obvious with your assertion that the only difference between cel and digital is that cel has a bunch of imperfections and limited colors.

>No it can't
not him but it can probably get 99% of the way there if you tried, theres just no point, the way light and color works and reproducing it digitally is very well understood

There's a difference between passion, and letting people walk all over you while burying yourself in your work and pretending it'll all turn out ok. Japanese shouldn't accept getting dogshit pay because they're afraid they MIGHT make someone mad, they're being exploited and taken advantage of and that should piss them off.

Disney is also a bad example because his movies clearly had a huge reward to risk ratio, as leasing his own house was a part of a business investment. These animators aren't getting an appropriate pay off for their hard work.

>No it can't
There's a big difference between possibility and likelihood. Maybe the technology doesn't exist yet, I'll concede here, but there's no reason to doubt with time even the physicality of paint and lighting couldn't be recreated digitally.
>Also, you're being beyond obvious with your assertion that the only difference between cel and digital is that cel has a bunch of imperfections and limited colors.
My point wasn't that the only differences are in flaws, but that recreating the cel look nessecarily requires recreating those things too, which no-one is going to do because it sounds stupid on paper

The vibe achieved by the old coloring is a distinct one though, and could be worth it in some cases. Drifters took a palette that is pretty similar to that old soft one, and used it effectively. The new Castlevania anime has many scenes that are close as well.

it's not just the coloring, it's the whole process that contributes to the look
you can pick a washed out color palette if you want but it's just not done most of the time because objectively it just doesnt look that great

What aspect couldn't be replicated?

Also he was emphasizing those as aspects that people generally wouldn't want to replicate - although I like visible brush strokes in many cases, personally. Not fake ones, but when they convey the directionality of the artist's motions, they carry a part of his intent. This is also an important part of calligraphy, especially eastern calligraphy, so considering that context, it's obvious that it has potential merit.

For all the fetishism that surrounds cels, a lot of people don't seem to know what they are or how they were used in animation production.

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>Maybe the technology doesn't exist yet, I'll concede here
Okay. Discussion over.

Well, there are definitely aspects that you wouldn't want to recreate, but there are also positive elements. And I reckon there ought to be some cases where they're superior, though often in those cases people go for paint on glass instead.

If that was the only point you were trying to make, it was an utterly banal point.

the positive elements all exist because they had more money to spend on the animation production, I'm not sure if there's anything about the way analog anime looked that's better than what can be done with digital

the technology does exist

heehee

>although I like visible brush strokes in many cases, personally
A lot of people do, myself included as well, but you have to think in terms of the general audience. Most people are massively uninterested in the actual production or technique, and consider "seeing the strings" a bad thing

That remaster fucking hurts my eyes. I really hate BDs.

I feel like it might have something to do with the the conversion from CRTs to LCDs/LEDs along with some of what other anons have said. That color palette looked a lot better on older televisions and monitors than it does on modern ones.

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>"we can replicate the look of cel"
>no you can't
>"well the technology doesn't exist yet"
>yeah, no shit

The software doesn't exist, but it would only take a few skilled and dedicated programmers to make it exist. If all it takes is a few skilled and dedicated professionals in an entire industry, then to say it can't be done is not meaningfully true; it is at best a semantic point.

>it would only take a few skilled and dedicated programmers to make it exist
You obviously have no idea what programming is or what an algorithm trying to immitate a style (without looking like shit) would need to look like. So you better just shut up before you embarrass yourself any more.

I believe you

Merely replicating the look of a cell with software has no soul. No existing material object, no human hand touched it, no scratches and grains of dust as proof of its fundamental existence in the same world we were born into.

You don't have a soul.

This thread was so nice for the longest time, but in the past 6 or so hours its gone to complete shit

Me and my soul are both laughing at you.

Although it's true that I don't know the details, I do know that lots of impressive video algorithms have been made by small numbers of dedicated professionals in other fields (including video games) and that the algorithm wouldn't need to be all that processor efficient since video is already rendered and baked before being distributed.

Yeah, there's s reason it hasn't been done, and I think if it was, outside of one or two shows using it well, it would be generally unpopular.

>Although it's true that I don't know the details, I do know that lots of impressive video algorithms have been made by small numbers of dedicated professionals in other fields (including video games) and that the algorithm wouldn't need to be all that processor efficient since video is already rendered and baked before being distributed.
Seldom have I read this much rambling without any substance.