Dude they're like "normal clones" but real!

And it did nothing.
If it wasn't for the 3rd's own weakness and having someone who knew that weakness they would have been fucked.
Naruto used a Rasenshuriken, which is elementally advantagious to Lightning, and had KCM did fucking NOTHING to him and Naruto was the strongest Allied Shinobi at that time.

seriously, stop watching, it gets only worse from there.

So why are clones good again

Naruto making 1 quadrillion of them just makes him 1 quadrillion times weaker. When they dispel do they give him the chakra back or what?

Doesn't get the chakra back. As Naruto gets stronger he gets better at coordinating taijutsu and ninjutsu using the clones, it becomes his fighting style essentially, and he gets good at it.

Training cheatcode

It's sort of implied that if he releases them manually the power goes back to him but if they are released forcibly (like them getting hit) the chakra expended to make them disappears.

But surely rapidly HALVING your power is a bad style?

I understand this but in a battle sense its pointless

>Make clone of water
>It has water properties, including viscosity instead of hardness
>Make Wood clone
>Wood endurance/tangibility instead of flesh and blood, so sturdier
>Make Fire/Lightning clone
>Literally EXPLODES when its structural integrity is breached
>Make Earth clone
>Sturdier as fuck
>Make wind clone
>Even flimsier than shadow clone

Clones are by themselves terrible, because they got no endurance. Meanwhile most attacks that would destroy a clone would horribly gut a human.
They are terrible because most Shinobi is too weak to spawn more than a few clones. Chakra sharing is only relevant because it means you can't cast it while its active to get more clones, such maths are hard. I.e 1/2 -> 1/4 -> 1/8 -> 1/16. Which is the reason why Sage clones all need to be dispelled before he can make new clones.
There is no sensory sharing either until it poofs either, so if you got no plan you can fuck as basics such as formations.
Caster needs to maintain focus to keep them alive, so its like a breathing technique.

The good parts are:
1. Information sharing
2. Chakra sharing. Which is why the nature chakra thing even works, he essentially uses the clones as batteries
3. More hands
4. Clones can still use Ninjutsu. Including transformations
5. Chakra level by itself do not impact how strong somebody is. Chakra throughput do, which scales with chakra. So 20 Narutos hit as hard as 20 Naruto level people, IF Naruto doesn't make more clones than he needs to pump up his stats. Which by the end of the series was... what 4 clones?
6. Elemental clones are generally stronger than their caster

Depends on how much power you need to have max stats. There is a reason why Naruto went from using 1000 clones, to gradually diminishing the number down to 4.

Attached: cat-is-dumbfounded.jpg (389x263, 17K)

I noticed that the longer into the series the less clones he used but it seems like any clones is pointless. He should use clones for training and ranged attacks only

>1 quadrillion times weaker.
No. Splitting chakra means he has less stamina and can perform less jutsus, but each clone is as stong as the real Naruto, while we know the water clone for example is only 30% as strong as the real ninja.

With enough chakra, Shadow clones are a ridiculous force multiplier.

So, the clones hit as hard as regular naruto?

The real dumb thing was how the first chapter makes kagebunshin this forbidden jutsu that was sealed away to the point it was criminal to try and learn it and then Nardo learns it and spams it whenever with 0 consequences

I remember Kakashi using them for ninja work like gathering intel and spreading out to cover more ground, also if your opponent has a powerful instakill technique he can't use too often it's a good thing to let him waste it on a clone

>forbidden jutsu
Which in Naruto is a codeword for "Noobs can kill themselves if they try to learn this unsupervised"

Naruto has a lot of Chakra, so Naruto can make a lot of clones without diminishing how hard he hits.
Meanwhile Konohamaru is shit tier and can barely make clones.

The problem isn't clearly stated: if you manage to buff yourself using something like Gates, using Shadow Clones would half, third, quarter and so on your actual power level.
If you don't use such moves, its fine.

Member when Kakashi said being able to walk up a tree with chakra was an expert technique that signified you had potential to master literally any jutsu? I member.

The Hokage that ends up being the least relevant in the end is fucking Tsunade.

I only counted up to the 4th,I swear I forgot that Tsunade exists.

Only Nardo can use shadow clones because of his chakra reserves,yes forbidden because normal people die because of it's extreme chakra drain.

They probably agreed on Nardo using it since he has infinite chakra.

>That's the actual shadow clone jutsu and it's not exclusive to Naruto.
People still can't memorize the fact that shadow clone jutsu isn't sealed from public? Massive shadow clone jutsu is the one that supposed to be forbidden.

the only thing that makes sense to me is that they have a small casting fee ontop of splitting the chakra but you also get that chakra back

say you have "500 chakra" and you make 4 shadow clones,say it costs 20 chakra to create each clone, then the rest is split between them so 500-20*4 = 420 chakra that is then divided between 5 people so each person/clone has 84 chakra but as they die/dispel the caster gets that chakra back so hes back to 420 chakra if they all die/dispel.

its the only thing that really makes sense to me because its shown that he recieves chakra from them whenever he dispels sage mode clones, and it still impressive to make a ton of them because it shows how much chakra he actually has if he can pay the casting price for that many and still have enough chakra to fight

thats my autism theory

It was never mentioned before. Fuck Kishi.

Ah right,that's true. The sealed one is Tajuu kage bunshin,so is Kage bunshin a normal jutsu?

it's genius that he made Naruto use the technique only when he is with the clones. It goes with his character too since he was dumb.

Yeah imagine if Kakashi told Naruto to use his Shadow Clones when training to fight Neiji.

I always thought that was just used as a way to explain away how Naruto improved so fucking fast once he learned how to use them. In RPG terms it means he got a 10x multiplier or more to experience gains every fight.

Fuck, imagine not 100 but 10 clones learning rasengan.

Probably waited for the kid to grow up. If he said Naruto it way before,he would constantly use it as a way to train and get lazy. He only told it to him after the akatsuki threatening bijuu.

A good teacher.

Yes, just a high level and niche one, because you still need to burn a fuckton of chakra to utilise it, i.e. make a couple of clones and actually do something worthwhile with them. There's lots of characters who are able to, but the practicality and uses of it is still marginal.
Summoning them en masse would just kill the normal person because even a few is taxing as fuck.

Why is this a forbidden technique again?

Sasuke would survive casting Tajuu Kage Bunshin
The rest of his class would die horribly

>A good teacher.
A good teacher doesn't leave his own mentor's son in the hands of the worst teacher in the village against an opponent who has already attempted to kill someone and potentially against another person who attempted to BRUTALLY kill someone.

It's suicide for any non-Uzamaki ninja because it splits your chakra too much. Most ninja are not as lucky as Naruto to have a large chakra pool to divide thanks to genetics and the Kyuubi. Even the regular shadow clone that everyone knows is risky because you're splitting half your chakra.

There's no reason for it to ever be taught, hence it being forbidden.

Then Naruto learned how to wall through water and I thought he was already a master. But power creep became too stupid

Didn't he say something like "in practice anyways..."

Well Tsunade only became Hokage because there was no one else that wanted to(except Danzo, who's clearly not cut out for it).

the last part didn't make sense.

you forgot one thing
this bullshit lets him learn 3 years worth of training in one day because unlike regular clones the experience of shadow clones go back to the user

...

>theoritically if you can master tree walking you should potentially be able to master any jutsu

it means you can use a jutsu if you learn to control your chakra,fucking basics. How did you miss this?

He was a good teacher he was chosen to teach the hokage's grandson

He just wasn't Jiraiya, one of the best in the world good

Truth is the power scaling mad the first basically god level, and the flashback with the fourth depicted him as basically invincible as well.
Kishimoto lacked the creativity to make the second relevant too so he just said fuck it, he evented all the jutsu.
Third hokage got the short end of the stick.

Narutards, why doesn't Naruto just always spam 1000 clones with rasengans each and defeat literally every opponent? What stops him from doing that? Elaborate.

Doesn't Naruto control how much he puts into his clones once shippuden starts?

remember when Kakashi used all of his chakra to make a fucking lightning clone against Pain? kek

>Naruto
Such a mary sue character...
It's hypocritical how he is portrayed as an underdog, that supposedly works too hard to attain his goals, at the beginning.

Attached: blehh.jpg (1274x720, 97K)

I think that got retconned. Madara's superior, beautiful limbo clones beat up Naruto's shadow clones and they still stand and fight ... a thing he can't even see.

Attached: Madara70.png (1280x720, 835K)

>Method of training that packs both the learning and the mental load of multiple days work into one
>Lazy
Did you even spend 5 seconds thinking about it before you said that because that was a really stupid thing to say.

Name ONE Jutsu B rank or above Ebisu and by extension Konohamaru uses.

They're not "shadow" clones, they're normal clones.

Naruto was going to fight either Sauske or Gaara in the next round.
On paper that's a 50/50 Naruto fights a killer Jinchuriki. To us who have meta knowledge we know for a fact Sauske would get killed then Naruto gets killed

I think that depends on the user. At that point he was running on like 5 different god mode power-ups, so it's not unfeasible to say that clones CAN take a hit, but either need more chakra or a super sturdy user to do so.

>Kyuubi
>allows his host to get killed by punny one tail
>Naruto not summoning bunta in the middle of the arena
>Jiraya not teleporting in an slitting Gaara's throat
Nope

And third was supposed to be fuck-off powerful and above all other ninja that were his contemporaries.

I'm operating under Kakashi's Point of View from the moment he decided to pass him off to Ebisu

The chakara goes back to him when they died.Common is basic naruto tard lore.

ITACHIIIIIIIIII
MANGEKYOU IN DA EYES ONLY SEE DA BLOOD WHEN A NINJA CRIES
ITACHIIII (UCHIHA)
WANNA KILL ME THEN YOU BETTA GET SASUKEEEEEE

YES LOOK IN MAH EYES
SHARINGAN USAH IN DISGUISE
GIVE ME ANY NINJA, VAG IMMA PILLAGE
PLUS IMMA RENEGADE SO FUCK DA LEAF VILLAGE
KAKASHI WANNA HATE WHEN I ROLL
SO I PUT HIS ONE EYED ASS IN DA HOLE
SOME MOTHAFUCKAS JUST WANNA ACT LAME
FUCK AROUND AND END UP IN THE BLACK FUCKIN FLAME
ITACHIIIIIIIIII
MANGEKYOU IN DA EYES ONLY SEE DA BLOOD WHEN A NINJA CRIES

ITACHIIII (UCHIHA)
WANNA KILL ME THEN YOU BETTA GET SASUKEEEEEE

TRY TO HIDE BUT I SEE YA
KNOW DEY CANT FUCK WITH THE UCHIHA
HIDE YOUR DAUGHTAS, HIDE YOUR SONS
'FORE THEY GET TOUCHED BY DA SHARINGAN
SOMEBODY'S POPPIN PILLS
THROW ME A LOOK AND SHE GUNNA GET KILLED
Y'ALL MUTHAFUCKAS WANNA PLAY MY GAME
Y'ALL BETTA LEARN HOW TO SAY MY NAME (WHAT'S ME NAME??)

ITACHIIIIIIIIII
MANGEKYOU IN DA EYES ONLY SEE DA BLOOD WHEN A NINJA CRIES
ITACHIIII (UCHIHA)
WANNA KILL ME THEN YOU BETTA GET SASUKEEEEEE
ITACHIIIIIIIIII
MANGEKYOU IN DA EYES ONLY SEE DA BLOOD WHEN A NINJA CRIES
ITACHIIII (UCHIHA)
WANNA KILL ME THEN YOU BETTA GET SASUKEEEEEE

Attached: file.png (487x375, 267K)

I too, watched Naruto: the selfmade hypcrite

Naruto "I don't believe in being destined to be great and I'll defy everyone who called me a failure through hard work and practice alone" Uzumaki

underdog
un· der· dog | \ ˈən-dər-ˌdȯg \
Definition of underdog
1 : a loser or predicted loser in a struggle or contest
2 : a victim of injustice or persecution

Almost everyone viewed Naruto as a loser
He was a victim if injustice and undeserved hate.

According to the definition of the word he is an underdog.

Their purpose is to be inconsistent.
>die in one hit
>but sometimes can tank multiple hits for dramatic effect/trickery
>anyone can cast it
>acts as a Nx multiplier for learning/workloads, and isn't abused by fucking everyone on their 'off days' when they don't need 100% mana reserved

>that supposedly works too hard to attain his goals, at the beginning.

nice headcanon

No. Making a shadow clone was risky because it permanently shaves off chakra into what ever fraction you're going for. But that again only brings questions into how chakra functions in this setting. What timeframe is required to replenish it? Does it require sleep for 100% back? Characters seem to innately know when they're low on juice (for plot convenience as well), but no one gives a timeframe on 'wait a few hours and I can cast it again', it's often 'I can cast this 3 times a day', and then they do more and don't die because that plot point was forgotten and eventually everyone had nigh unlimited chakra).

And completely contrived.
>child of 4th
>upper echelon have to know he's fox
>fox is a WMD safe guarded by fire as their trump card
>4th suicides just a while after wifey dies
For some absurd reason the child isn't told his parentage, the full truth (as per what 3rd knows) about that night and isn't given care and training for his unique situation, and is instead left to be some inept shitstain attentionwhore. I don't see how he could ever be considered an underdog after the very blunt similarities to 4th (a few blunt references from characters early in part 1, the fact that lineage clearly has an influence on power level/potential) and the reveal his sealed evil is a can of rape ready to rip jounin adults to pieces.

considering that he has infinite chakara, yes

unless he's really organised with them, most skilled opponents could dodge that shit pretty easily, or do some AOE and wipe out all the clones

Bless up

becuz the plot demands it

I've only read the manga since the anime was absolute irredeemable unwatchable garbage, but just in case it was explained/shown there: Who killed Hashirama? Or how did he die?

Kishimoto was constantly throwing Naruto against opponents who were way, way out of his league. Most of them were so absurdly powerful that they could get out of that pretty easily.

Quick rundown on these two?

I think it was implied he just died of natural causes.

That's the whole point. He's a ticking time bomb and association with the nine tails itself is what makes him an outcast. That and don't you see Naruto acting out constantly? People assume that's due to the nine tails influence and not because he wants attention. Not everything in shonen is about power and how he goes from weak to strong. Naruto goes from a social pariah to being loved by everyone.

10/10

That's not canon

Do you love Nagato?

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But it's fucking stupid. He should revered, like his mother. He should be taken care of, not left to be shat on. He's the one person you don't want to ostracize, if he was the one to go rouge instead of sauce, fire would be completely shitting themselves or completely fucked (depending on where he would go/if he would be captured/converted to fight against/killed). Just fucking terrible asset management given what is revealed later in the series. It's not the kids fault the fox event happened, he was just fucking born that night, why didn't 3rd slap the shit out of the populace for incorrectly blaming a fucking child, his fucking father was their saviour in the prior war and the saviour that sealed the fox preventing annihilation of the village that night.

Shadow Clones are different in that they can act independently from the person that created them. Also, you know how Sensui, the last antagonist in the Yu Yu Hakusho anime, learned how to use Sacred Energy five times as quickly because of his split personalities learning bits and pieces of it independently(however the fuck that works)? Shadow Clones are like that too.

Naruto had obscenely deep chakra pools because of lucky genetics on top of having a tailed beast bitch inside his body. When he makes Kurama his bitch, there's no downsides to him using it.

Shadow Clones aren't forbidden. Making a very, very large number of them at once is because it's actually incredibly dangerous to split your chakra a bunch of times. Just making one or two isn't a problem, though.

Those were sage/tailed beast mode clones with six paths steroids working in their favor. The clones being durable enough to survive a punch isn't a crazy idea.

He did it against kimimaro and gaara,later near war arc he does this a lot. In part one he lacked chakra and creating clones took a big toll on his stamina(since no chakra control,he sucks at it) which he overcame easily after kyubi mastering.

Human hypocrisy is the main theme.

Best girl. I wish we got to see more of her.

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justsu's give you a good timeframe(2 chidori per day as stuff)Kakashi is like created to be so as he is constantly compared so it provides you with a basic understanding of potential jutsu uses and chakra one posess.

As you know,3rd isn't really a "good" person. He did a lot of shit in the series. I don't think he cares about Naruto as nearly as much as Konohamaru,which he gave to be under ebisu's care.

He died in the same war his brother died in. That's why they're the same age when Orochimaru brings them back.

A "normal" clone is kind of like a hologram, it's just there to confuse the enemy. It's a concept that was almost never used beyond the very beginning of the manga, probably because of how intrinsically broken it is. But I guess the excuse is that higher level ninja can see right through the clones.

A "shadow" clone has a real body that can actually punch people and perform jutsu. There is a "real" clone among the fakes, but it's impossible to tell which body is real, since chakra is evenly distributed between them.

Other techniques such as water clones and wood clones are pretty much like shadow clones, except they have different properties (for example a water clone will turn into water if you hit it, an electric clone will shock anyone who hits it). Wood clones are introduced as a more powerful clone, which is very stable, durable, and able to operate completely independently. (Of course in later Naruto when the power scaling kicks in we see shadow clones getting completely broken, able to operate independently at long distances, and even create their own shadow clones)

>can spam them for training and get decades of work done in weeks
Yes. Unironically one of the most OP jutsus in the series.

Ame orphans are cute. What the fuck is Hanzo's problem? Don't say Danzo manipulation, he was an adult and village leader not the same as manipulating 12 year olds.

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>mentor's own son
He had the worst mentor in history. His mentor left him in charge of the squad at age 12 twice and one of his teammates died both times (first turned out not to be true but no thanks to Minato). All things considered he took way better care of Naruto than Minato did of him.

Think about your physical stamina, you know innately just about how much work you can do in a day. Chakra is similar in that regard.

And then Kishi fucked that up with Madara and Hashirama.
The first when from a guy who was good at Wood Jutsu and could carve a canyon in the hardest fight of his life to a literal god.
The 2nd went from a guy who taught Sarutobi and was good at water jutsu to another god who also invented every broken technique out there.
The 3rd went from the strongest Kage in his prime to being the 2nd Weakest and basically useless.
The 4th went from inventing two incredibly powerful techniques and being the fastest man ever to be barely adequate and not inventing one of them and getting the idea from the other one from an outside source
The 5th went from being a definite threat and a powerful ninja to being the weakest of the Hokage and possibly the weakest of the Kage in general.

Kishi fucked that series with his shit powerscaling.

I preferred it when the tailed beasts were supposed to be relatively equal. Kurama being so much stronger than all the rest never sat well with me.

It's more that if you can't master that then you aren't going any further as a ninja. It's like why we learn how to read in elementary school rather than college.

why does it seem like niggas never even read the first volume of the manga. or are speed watching naurto? it literally explains this shit in the first fucking episode. he steals the scroll and masters the technique. you can choose to put different energy amounts into the clones. the more clones the less energy in each one. having less clones your clones are stronger god damn why is this hard to understand god damn tards.

Madara, Obito. Black Zetsu, Hanzo, and Danzo royally fucked them. They didn't deserve their fates.

>Worst Mentor in history
First off, that's not Kamogawa
Second off
He at least helped teach Kakashi Chidori which became the linchpin of his entire adult fighting style
Third they were at war time for the first time so he didn't have the novelty of training the trio as often as Kakashi did for NaruSakuSauce (or lack thereof)

>The 5th went from being a definite threat and a powerful ninja to being the weakest of the Hokage and possibly the weakest of the Kage in general.
That's not Mei.
>The 3rd went from the strongest Kage in his prime to being the 2nd Weakest and basically useless
I mean if you really look at Sarutobi under a mangifying glass you do see glimmers of Prime 3rd in moments like him 1v2 Tobimato and the Wooden Buddha that was moment prior fucking up the Ninja alliance, saving Naruto from the God Tree before even Tobirama and Minato, MINATO THE GOD OF REACTION TIMES, could act.
We'll probably never see a true Prime Sarutobi but it's not like he's completely outclassed like Tsunade and Kage Kakashi are

>Chidori
Brings me to another point. On the Kannabi bridge mission, five minutes before they part ways, Kakashi tries to solo 20 enemies with the Chidori and Minato has to save him. Minato knew teamwork was the most important thing and he knew Kakashi lacked it but he proceeds with the plan to put him in charge anyway. Minato is an awful person and a terrible leader.
>linchpin of his entire adult fighting style
Only because Kakashi lost his fucking eye and his friend basically died allowing Kakashi to get the Sharingan. Prior to that Minato tells him not to use Chidori because a frontal attack is too risky.

Eh, Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan but otherwise didn't do anything to them. Obito did nothing to them until after Yahiko died and even then he only asked them to retrieve the bijuu without specifying how. Pain is the one who decided to push Konoha's shit in and died for it and Konan decided to attack him instead of just giving the Rinnegan back.

>Eh, Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan but otherwise didn't do anything to them.
That's what started their downfall.

>Obito did nothing to them until after Yahiko died and even then he only asked them to retrieve the bijuu without specifying how.
Obito further pushed them to their demise.

There is no "doing nothing". Madara planted the seeds for manipulation and Obito nurtured it for his goals.

>started their downfall
By the same logic Madara was manipulated by black zetsu, and Obito was manipulated by Madara and by extension black zetsu. zetsu is the one that started everybody's downfall.
>pushed them to their demise
Nobody forced Pain to shinra tensei the entire village. If Nagato didn't have to rinne tensei everyone he would still be alive, but he specifically went out of his way to make sure everyone shared his pain and suffering. This was not a manipulated decision.

>Second Hokage came up with Shadow Clone, Flying Thunder, and Edo Tensei
Notice how every single one of these techniques is designed to counter the Uchiha's Sharingan

>Shadow Clone
Now you can never be caught in a 1v1 against a sharingan user, which Granny Chiyo said was the key to fighting them. Always have at least a 2 on 1.
>Flying Thunder God
Move and attack so quickly that their sharingan cannot react and counter.
>Edo Tensei
Also gives you the numbers advantage, and your Edo Tensei puppets can save you from a genjutsu if you get caught in one. Also, Uchiha are hyper-emotional by nature, so if you can summon one of their loved ones they will probably go apeshit.

Tobirama was always only thinking about how to fuck over Uchihas.

I forgot to add he mastered Water Style in an obvious effort to counteract Uchiha fire style

>obscenely deep chakra pools because of lucky genetics
this, the uzumaki clan was known for having exceptional life force, I believe that means they have heaps of chakra too. Naruto had 4 times more chakra than kakashi before he was 16 years old and a 100 times more chakra than kakashi when he add nine tails chakra.

it's not that everyone got unlimited chakra, aside from naruto and sasuke, everyone else had a limit, they just used jutsu that were more efficient and lower in chakra cost. Shadow clone jutsu was a forbidden jutsu because of how much chakra it took. Kakashi had a one clone limit, sasuke even is unable to use more than 7 clones. kakashi dies in the pain arc by using the kamui 3 times in one day.

shadow clones are actually forbidden, it's the normal non-corporeal clones which aren't.

Kakashi made 100 shadow clones in the Bridge Builder arc in the Land of the Mist.

What about the 6th and 7th Hokage?

He was bluffing, those were normal clones.

this, normal clones are just an illusion

Kakashi only got that spot because Naruto probably couldn't read or write yet and everyone else that was any good was dead or disabled.
He went from being a good but not great Ninja, just below top tier to being one of the strongest in the series with little evidence he did any training to cause that to happen.

Naruto went from an apparent underdog to a reincarnation of a god that descended from other disgustingly powerful people. He is literally unbeatable for anyone not named Sasuke and should probably be killed because he is too powerful to exist.

6th went from the guy who passed out from using regular Sharingan to copy water dragon no jutsu to the guy who passed out from using double Mangekyou Sharingan Susano'o and Kamui Raikiri to the guy who has no Sharingan at all. At least he brought about a technological revolution to Konoha.
7th went from the guy who made like 100 Kyuubi chakra mode shadow clones fighting on multiple simultaneous battlefields against the strongest edo tensei opponents ever to the guy who can't sustain one regular shadow clone carrying a birthday cake for his daughter.

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Kakashi is even worse, just a placeholder for naruto

The funnies thing is how completely overpowered he made Sharingan. He kept adding on abilities until it was the most broken hax ability in the entire manga.
>can copy your opponent's movements perfectly and predict them
>can copy jutsu after seeing them only once
>can see chakra
>the MOST powerful genjutsu
>mangekyo Sharingan and all the ridiculously overpowered abilities
Kakashi became one of the most powerful ninja in the leaf village just by having limited access to Sharingan in one eye. There's almost no way for a non-uchiha to fight against the Sharingan unless you have bijuu powers like Nardo

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Hokage Kakashi is bad but two sharingan Kakashi was stupid broken and Kakashi had constant incredible stat ups after reviving.

Maybe he can beat Tsunade without sharingan.

Chakra > Hax.

Just overpower the Uchiha shit.

Nothing special, its just that he cheats with his dog powers giving him infinite stamina because he's too much of a retard to learn the basics. So with those powers he can just do over and over to use them to help him doing other jintsuu he can't do on his own because, you guessed it, he's a massive retard.

Little did we know this guy was the most powerful shinobi in all of part 1 and most of part 2.
There's a reason Kishi made sure he wasn't in the village during Pain's attack

Even Itachi went running home crying after just seeing him arrive

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>Itachi
>u-used to much of muh sharingan!
no...we all know why ya puss

Looking back, I'm glad I gave up on this series. Dropped it around the time when they barely beat Pain, and I just couldn't care for Naruto as a character. Sasuke was also always shit and would have preferred to see him killed off early.

mangekyou sharingan > rinnegan
It was almost laughable how weak rinnegan was in the end.

Wait, where was he again?

He was on a mission with his team, and only got back right at the end

Why didn't he stop Orichimaru when he killed the Sarutobi/invaded the Leaf Village?

Orochimaru put a barrier up nobody could get past.

Tobirama was way too fucking based for this shit series

>Tsunade knows that Pain will strike at any minute
>sends her most powerful Jonin on a meaningless mission
why was she so retarded?

>all hokages are revived in their prime strongest age
>the 3rd is brought back in his old state
Was this ever explained? Also didn't he lock his soul away?

Attached: Hiruzen_Sarutobi.png (1470x1080, 1.05M)

She got the job on pure nepotism

All the others died young except him and I'm pretty sure Orochimaru released his soul as well when he did the asspull reaper death seal mask thing to get his arms back

Agreed, which is why it's a shame we got so little of him and he had a pretty lame death for how powerful he was supposed to be.

How come any of the kids never question this though?
How come they never notice Naruto using Shadow Clones means that he has a ton of chakra?

Feels like a retcon to me.

Most ninja die young, only Madara got the super-special new body. Everyone else just so happened to die before 50.

>your Edo Tensei puppets can save you from a genjutsu if you get caught in one. Also, Uchiha are hyper-emotional by nature, so if you can summon one of their loved ones they will probably go apeshit.
It has a few more advantages too - Edo Tensei puppets have unlimited chakra and regeneration, whereas Uchiha tend to have only average or above-average chakra reserves.

So, you can summon your Edo Tenseis, engage them in a battle of attrition making them drain their chakra against your immortal puppets, and then Flying Thunder God in from nowhere and kill them when they're tired.

I also think you could theoretically command your Edo Tenseis to make clones of themselves, which they could do without limitation because of unlimited chakra. Now you are a one-man Uchiha killing army and this move costs you literally zero chakra aside from the initial summoning.

Imagine if he was smart enough to send a group of shadow clones home to run a train on Hinata all day while he was at work.

no damage done to clones of any sort removes them if its enough to incapacitate or kill the clone. thats assuming some one doesnt spam them. most cant make that many clones. its explained like episode 1 that its not for every one and naruto was failing at doing just 1 clone

if you spam them then the energy is divide more. 1 clone is half as strong as the single person and so on and so forth. if they are weak enough a single hit of any sort should break them

>How come they never notice Naruto using Shadow Clones means that he has a ton of chakra?
I thought they noticed that fairly early.

Except his body was pealing and had to regenerate.
He would have died if he was actually alive and not an Edo Tensei

>sending clones to fuck your wife so you could do paperwork
???

>Naruto's #1 job is to be the village's Ace in case of an invasion
>Make him do a job that leaves him constantly exhausted to the point he cannot even maintain 1 clone sometimes
this seems counterproductive
what if an enemy shows up when he's exhausted like this

Naruto should be allowed to chill at home with his family and be fully rested so they can deploy him at a moment's notice. Let literally anybody else do the paperwork part of the job.

Jiraiya was pretty cool too. Glad they didn't desecrate him after his death.

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they still have the potential to retroactively ruin him with Kashin Koji, but I don't buy that theory

>People speed reading this hard
Naruto inherited absolutely ZERO benefits from his mom. Literally said time and time again, and Ninja God confirms it again.
His chakra levels come from his father designing the seal to leak Kurama’s chakra into his every day.

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No it didnt lmfao

Orchimaru sacrified the four white zetsu that were spying on them and used those as sacrfices with his own body by the reaper of death to exchange for the 1st 2nd and 3rd hokAge

He's Kashin Koji in Boruto.

The most retarded thing about that video is how every point he tried to bring up against Naruto he himself countered it within the video.
>hurr durr Naruto use to be about hard work beats talent
>Aktually Naruto had shown immense talent in the first episode

He's referring to the fact that naruto is trash at sealing jutsu and is untalented in general. Literally has nothing to do with chakra levels.

holy shit thats so retarded

Kage Bunshin

That's how "Naruto was about hard work" tards actually function though. The poster child for hard work, Rock Lee, admits that he's no match for someone who works hard and is also a naturally talented genius and people still think the series was supposed to be about hard work beats talent.

Based salaryman

Let's be real though. Kishimoto had no idea where this was going to go and constantly made huge ass pulls to try and make sense of dumb shit.

>sending your clones to fetch pails of water while you're stuck catching crummy pokemon creatures.

He’s literally saying his son was a scrub who was shit at everything and inherited none of his own abilities or skills, and so was naruto.

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But then they can't add artificial conflict

Yeah this was always the stupidest part of the job.

Literally no reason the Kage should be doing paperwork at all.

Not really.
They should be getting surprised he can use that many Shadow Clones, yet they don't even care.

And then you see the senior characters label the Shadow Clone Jutsu as a Jounin-level technique. The writing is all over the place.

>Rinnegan
>Weak
Literally everything Pain did was a Rinnegan ability. It's way better than Amaterasu for example. Kamui is just stupid broken.

>How comes the other kids don’t notice
Because it looks exactly the same as the base clone technique

Seems like a huge cop-out on Kishis part after witnessing Naruto pull all that shit and learning about his family.

We need a prequal, bros. I want to see Hiruzen "God of Shinobi" Sarutobi in his prime.

Based boomer poster

Yea, its a shame we only ever got flashbacks. All the old characters seem cooler anyways, wish we got that rather than Boruto

that's a load of shit, asura inherited hagoromo's senju chakra, indra inherited his uchiha chakra. The translation here is either wrong or the sage himself is a dumb fuck.

Nah they're not that stupid. They know the difference considering Shadow ones behave in comparison to regular ones.
That and Naruto always yells "Kage Bunshin no Jutsu"

This
>KCM1 Naruto can fight a war pretty much by himself for multiple days
>KCM2 Naruto can't handle some pencil pushing

I legitimately think Kiba would have made a fine Hokage.

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Yeah, Shadow Clones are Jonin level, they' kept the instructions for them in a secret scroll for a reason!

based

Does he have a knot?

At the time they all legitimately thought naruto was a retard, so I don’t think they’d find him shouting the wrong name wrong.

why don't they just hire a secretary to do his paperwork? i mean there are a lot of better people than narutard to do this shit

Regular clones have no substance, Shadow ones do.
The difference is obvious. They never say anything...not even a comment despite seeing him regularly use multiple clones.

This question has been asked 6 trillion times over the years and I have yet to see a good answer besides "Kishi is a hack"

>Sasuke in the beginning was adored by everyone in the village even though people knew of the shit Itachi had done
>Naruto in the beginning was despised by everyone even though he didn't ask for the 9 tails to be inside and it turns Minato was loved by the public
Just how much thought did kishimoto put into this?

Why not send the clones to work and go home and have sex with his wife?

Yet the kids seeing Naruto use them on the regular never seem surprised???
It doesn't make sense.

Got to give the little jap kids who watch boruto something to relate to.

He finds that disrespectful or something to the position of Hokage

According to the retcons, the Uchiha were oppressed and so was Sasuke to some extent. And Naruto's childhood wasn't THAT bad anymore - some people were nice to him.

>nardo: good thing I sent that clone home to pound my wife so I can give the office of the hokage the respect and attention it deserves
>random ninja: thank god that shadow clone disappeared after stubbing its toe on the coffee table so I can pound the hokages wife all day

He inherited massive amounts of chakra from her.
Given that Kushina was forgotten even by Jiraya she must not have done much anyways outside of fucking around the village while holding onto the Kyuubi.

>some people were nice to him
Aside from Iruka (after he rationalized the fact that Naruto is not the kyuubi) and Teuchi, not really. Are you guys normalfags or something? Even kids with zero friends who cried themselves to sleep every night occasionally got to joke around with other kids. That was Naruto's childhood. Nobody liked him, but by virtue of just being there, sometimes he got to play too or be involved in the other kids' antics.

Or you know...just have his wife and family not be such spoiled bitches.
You never saw Sarutobi's family being this bitchy...except for Konohamaru.

Kushina was an afterthought.

Hmm IIRC the kids kind of just put up with Naruto but didn't really care for him. Meanwhile most of adults, outside of Iruka, scorned him.

Sarutobi's wife died in the kyuubi attack, and Asuma hated him enough to leave the Village and fuck around with the Daimyo for a decade, whoever Konohamaru's father/mother is isn't mentioned.
There wasn't a family to bitch at him.

>He inherited mass amounts of chakra from her
No, he didn’t. His father is the reason he has lots of chakra. Because Minato designed the seal to leak Kurama’s chakra into Narutos.

Uzumaki are described as carrying large amounts of chakra and this is shown in every Uzumaki in the story.
The Kyuubi's chakra might have mixed into his system but just by eugenics Naruto already had a large amount of chakra from birth.

Because the only other Sarutobi was Asuma who was to busy to bitch about his dad

Literally said multiple times in the manga he inherited no benefits from his lineage.
Him being an uzumaki had absolutely zero benefits for him because he inherited none of the traits.
Read slower.

Poor guy didn't even get the signature hair.

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>Inherited his senju chakra
You don’t inherit senjustu chakra. You train for it and earn it.

senju clan, not senjustsu

I can tell exactly where your iq range lies from this post. How about you think for yourself for once rather than rely on a shitty translation of a manga which has obvious continuity issues.

member when they were doing hand-to-hand combat and throwing shurikens and shit and it actually meant something and wasnt just to fuck around between magic attacks?

>M-my headcanon is more valid than the manga!
Seething brainlet.

This was said by the Sage, the same guy who didn't mention that his 'dumb' son still inherited half of his super chakra - the son that would go on to create the Senju and Uzumaki clans, the ones most known for their powerful chakra. Bit of a slip up there.
Naruto didn't inherit Minato's prodigy abilities, but he was shown to inherit the chakra and personality quirks of his mother. Even then Naruto was still a prodigy when actually trained.

Hiruzen's wife was killed by Obito to be specific.

Konohamaru's parents were mentioned in a Boruto SD. They were Hiruzen's Anbu bodyguards.

Good, that's how it should be.
Boring ass family drama shouldn't have any place in Battle Shonen.

he gets the chakra back, aside from whatever chakra they use up. the same way he gets back all the information they learn
i think that might be the upside, actually. shadow clone jutsu preserves chakra, unlike water clone which takes the energy of making something entirely out of water.

Certain clone techniques only create a smoke and mirrors type illusion, some are more elaborate substitution types, some create a sort of pseudo puppet to act out function, and still yet some are directly controllable or even fully conscious copies of the creator such as the shadow clone jutsu.

The benefit of this is say if you had pre thought out a strategy all your created clones would already have a full understanding of it as well as the ability to make their own decisions and adapt it. Also when they get poofed you get all their experiences from the time they've existed.

You simply lack the ability to logically piece evidence together.
>uzumaki used as jinchuriki for the nine tails. It's been said that the ninetails takes control over the host by pushing aside their chakra, the more chakra one has, the more resistant they are to takeover
>Kakashi literally explains that chakra is the amalgamation of stamina and mental strength. Kushina literally stayed concious despite getting stabbed right through the stomach a few mins after child birth and was still able to hold the ninetails back before she was sealed inside naruto.
>Karin literally healed people by having them bite her and steal her chakra, considering that sasuke went from depleted chakra, to full chakra after his fight with danzo, i'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that karin had more chakra than sasuke.
>Nagato is chosen as the host for the rinnegan and execution of madara's plans, it could've been literally anyone, yahiko showed more qualities of a leader. However no one else probably had the chakra reserves to summon the gedo statue so an uzumaki was chosen.

Was he hyperventilating?

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He probably thought he had hurt or killed a bunch of his friends and the villagers.

I think he definitely was
>notice how he touch the chest with a pain suddenly
maybe this was foreshadowing. stress building up slowly and released altogether in kage summit.

OP, abandon ship. Naruto is only good if you're a little kid. You will only find disappointment. One Piece is where it's at.

dropped it when Luffy was convieniently saved by sanjis sister. Plot armor is too thick and unbearable.

>dog day holiday
Based

Everyone was happier.

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yeah but the problem is in reality they were all slowly being turned into Zetsus to be harvested for Kaguya's chakra-lust
so while it was a nice dream, it wasn't really a great long term situation

also infinite tsukuyomi gave us possibly the worst filler arc in Naruto history which is saying a lot - the 10+ episode stretch of Tsunade reading a made up book that Jiraiya never wrote

Who?

6th - Kakashi
7th - Naruto

apparently Kakashi invented a new form of Chidori called Purple Lightning which didn't rely on sharingan so he was still good enough to be Kage

also he invented the internet

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>Kakashi only got that spot because Naruto probably couldn't read or write yet and everyone else that was any good was dead or disabled.
this is exactly it
Kakashi is explicitly named as a retainer until Naruto is mature enough to assume the role - he has a lot of studying to do despite having the power and recognition required
Gai is crippled
Asuma is dead
Kurenai wants to raise her kid who becomes best girl pic related

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That was the only reason it was bad. When I first heard about the tsuki no me plan I thought it was about casting a regular genjutsu and everyone would be up and about walking around in a shared mass illusion where everyone is happy and peace lasts forever. That would at least warrant consideration, it's like using Kotoamatsukami on everyone to make them play nice.
Attaching them to a tree and siphoning off their chakra until they die and turn into white zetsus is so stupid. It serves only to undermine the entire theme of fixing a broken world, because you can reject any discussion of it outright with "yeah but it summons an alien who exterminates the human race".

Why is this thread still alive?
Stop it now.

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I doubt you'll see this but if you like thinking about the logic of Naruto and crunching chakra costs you'd probably like The Waves Arisen.

They never were, though. Kyuubi destroyed Konoha and required the 4th to commit suicide. Shuukaku was beaten by fucking Bunta. It was obvious from the start for them to heavily differ in power. If anything, most of them got buffed towards the end so they won't look as useless compared to Kyuubi anymore.

No clue what argument you're even trying to make. The translations specifically speak about abilities and skill. A large chakra pool is merely a different term for large amounts of stamina. It's not an ability or a skill. It's neither talent nor combat intellect, either.

Based Hashirama pretending to distribute the bijuu to maintain the balance of power, but keeping the best one for himself.

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ITT: Post things that confused you. I'll start. How could Orochimaru be searching for the Totsuka Blade when it was Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan power?

It could be possible that itachi was the one who initially rumored the existence of such a blade to distract orochimaru from investigating the leaf village and finding a young sasuke. Itachi was playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers

Can smone explain how was uchiha shunned by village as stated by Sasuke during the final arc when while the chunin exams were going on everyone was excited to see sasuke fight? It makes no sense.

Thank you Kakashi for the internet

>why is damage so inconsistent?
Oh boy you're gonna have a great time with inconsistencies in this trainwreck of a show.
Kakuzu, the guy who lived hundreds of years and fought the first fucking Hokage and survived gets bamboozeled by a bunch of shitty shadow clones that every ninja worth his salt can do and gets ambushed with an attack that is extremely loud and flashy.
Bad guys IQ's drop by 100 points when they meet Naruto.

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Yeah,I don't like Naruto too.

I love Madara

A lot of these Dreams are just fucking stupid and lazy, oh, "Shino's greatest dream is catching a new species of insect", or "Ino's greatest dream is having boys fight over her".
Who cares about complexity or anything lets make these characters even more one note. What a fucking hack.

Its highly likely that Kashin Koji is Jiraiya's bastard son from his travels, he might or might not have known of his existence. Wouldn't really be out of character for him either way since he admitted he had a ton of mistakes and regrets in his life.

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>when you're such a brainlet you can't even understand naruto
you should try something simpler like hunterxhunter

Shukaku wasn't beaten, Naruto just woke up Gaara and the possession ended

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Why was the entire Uchiha clan murdered if that meant losing a powerful ally in a war-ridden world? It's like asking the outside powers 'PLEASE INVADE US'.

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Kishi just copied Togashi too much with that, only the main family would've been enough

Gaara's dream is the most wholesome thing

The Totsuka blade was not part of Itachi's original powerset. He acquired it somewhere, at some point. Orochimaru was still searching for it because he didn't know Itachi had already claimed it.

How can anyone even consider Madara a bad guy?

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you're welcome

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Bunta only held Shukaku back for a minute until Naruto could wake up Gaara. Even then it was implied that there was more power in Shukaku than was shown.
Then Kishi fucked it up and made Naruto even more powerful compared to everyone else by making Kurama the strongest Biju of them all by far.

Kakuzu was spared, Hashirama was a child soldier and he hated it, so he spared another child soldier called Kakuzu, even if we ignore the power creep, he got stomped, since he didn't had the tentacle monster jutsu yet, he merely boasted about it.

Kakuzu got fucked up because he didn't understand that a shadow clone could disperse and transfer the killer-jutsu along with it

he got mixed-up by the new generation mix-up artist and there is nothing wrong with that

he wasn't even dead afterward, kakashi had to finish him

Kashin Koji is a clone, or a cyborg, based on Jiraiya's DNA

KARA took his body a long time ago, which is why Kabuto couldn't Edo Tensei him

you have to be at least 150IQ to understand kage bunshin

Kishimoto got sick and was forced by his editors to end the fight early
he has gone on record as saying he regrets how short-cut the Kakuzu fight was

whenever naruto appears his enemies are retarded and get redeemed as good
whenever sasuke appears his enemies have 5 alternative plans and almost kill him
thus I like sasuke better

There are no Lightning, Fire, or Wind Clones.
Kakashi used Lightning Shadow Clone, which was regular Shadow Clone that would electrocute the hitter due to being filled with Raiton chakra. Itachi's Explosive Clones were not Fire related at all.

Also, from what we know, non-Shadow Clones lacks independent thought and are controlled consciously, and the user knows what is going on with them without dispelling them.

Naruto's clones were downed by mere punches only when Neji, whose fighting style is all about beating chakra pathway, organs, and chakra constructs.

Because Konoha doens't care. In case you still didn't realize: All other villages are virtual slums compared to the hidden leaf. Konoha has all the hacker ninja and hacker clans. Other relevant kekkei genkai belong to small swamp villages, rather than the big ones.

And yet the got wrecked by Orochimaru's new village.
Pretty short-sighted, if you ask me.

Don't think too hard about OG Naruto.

Kishimoto retconned the shit out of it.

Just think of it as the origin story of some characters and the plot of Shippuden.

>got rekt
Ahem, Orochimaru lost his arms, that allowed Sasuke to kill him, which allowed him to stay himself, which allowed him to kill Danzo and lose to Naruto
All according to plan. Konohoa didn't "lose" anything.

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More like whenever Sasuke appears his enemies get a terminal illness