Berserk

He's never been a villain, just a man with ambition.
Everyone he sacrificed to become a godhand would've died for him willingly in battle for him to reach the same goal. So what's the difference? Had he not sacrificed them every single comrade's death before the sacrifice would've been in vain.
For the sacrifice to be valid the victims had to be people he genuinely cared for too, he's far from a psychopath.
And as proven by every single action after his ascension his goals were virtuous.
Even the raping of Casca wasn't out of malice, it was so she could bear a son which Griffith could later reincarnate into. Again the act itself might be considered evil but don't the ends justify the means?
This is ultimately the dilemma Guts will be faced with when he confronts Griffith, he knows Griffith is not an evil man.

For what purpose? I might need to reread some parts but what does fucking over souls forever do? Give strength to the godhand?

You forgot
>rape Casca

>Again the act itself might be considered evil but don't the ends justify the means?
So if i rape you for whatever reason you won't ressent me right ?

There's a lot of flaws in this line of reasoning. Those men followed Griffith not because they WANTED to die for him or even thought they would. There was a risk, but they still chose to follow because they saw him as a worthy, admirable leader. Part of a leader's job is to keep his men alive as much as possible. If he sacrifices them for his own purpose, why are they following him at all? They would have run away immediately had they known Griffith would do that.

>he knows Griffith is not an evil man

I'm pretty sure Guts hates him with a burning passion and would drive his entire sword into his mouth if he got the chance. Maybe Guts doesn't care about "good and evil," but I'd be surprised to see Guts give Griffith any sort of humanity at this point.

If it gave millions of people a better life I might still resent you but I'd understand. Probably even cooperate.

It’s been so fucking long since that i dont even hate griffith anymore

Yeah, hes literally the anti christ.
OP will go to hell when the end times comes because hes dumb.

>They would have run away immediately had they known Griffith would do that.

This true, but the end result would've been the same.

>I'm pretty sure Guts hates him with a burning passion and would drive his entire sword into his mouth if he got the chance. Maybe Guts doesn't care about "good and evil," but I'd be surprised to see Guts give Griffith any sort of humanity at this point.

You're right here. I should've said Guts will have to decide if Griffith is evil from his own perspective after facing him. Just as Griffith let Rickert come to his own conclusions after showing him his convictions and all that came to be from sacrificing the band.

No, thats only for the branded

Breakserk

>sacrifice all your friends to be a literal demon god and rape your best friends girlfriend and make his kid your own demon spawn baby
>i-its okay griffith was in the right

This is unironically about as cucked as you can get. not even meme shit like you are actually a cuckold

If you had the chance to sacrifice 100 people in exchange for:
Giving tens of thousands a better life
Immeasurable godlike powers
The capabilities to further conquer and improve the entire world

Would you take it? Griffith had the opportunity, immoral as it may be, and seized it.

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You think like a peasant, Griffith thinks like a king.
Enjoy your life eating shit in your hovel while Griffith conquers the entire world as a god, improving quality of life for everyone.

Yea, improving the lives of everyone, by making magic monsters able to interact with the world like normal creatures, and causing mass deaths, due to unleashing monsters on the world, but making sure that his nation is safe.

He's planning to expand his empire across the entire world like the skull knight did before him.

This is how Berserk should end.
With Guts at home with Schierke, giving her his fifth baby.

Baseless speculation

>Yea Forums waiting for Berserk to end.

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Berserk's theme philosophy is deciding if the end justifies the means. In the end Guts will be the one to judge Griffith. My guess is he will understand his ambitions and respect him but still lob his head off for his own reasons.

It's been foreshadowed plenty.
Can you give me an example of Griffith doing something evil without greater purpose? I never claimed he was morally right. Just pointing out how Griffith is insanely misjudged by fans.

Miura sacrificed us to become a real idolmaster.

>Everyone he sacrificed to become a godhand would've died for him willingly in battle for him to reach the same goal. So what's the difference?

The difference is dying because your leader needed your sacrifice to achieve victory, and dying because your leader is incompetent enough to ruin everything you and him have built together.
Griffith got triggered over Guts leaving and no longer being willing to suck his dick 24/7, Griffith went full retard because of one rejection, getting himself jailed and tortured for two years, this is the guy who wants to be king, the guy who wants to decide the fate of thousands, and he cant handle a single rejection?
What if Guts had died in battle because Griffith made the wrong choice? Its very likely he would go full retard over Guts death and destroy his own chance at becoming king.
A king needs to be strong, he cant get triggered every time people dont suck his dick or things go wrong.

He even sold his own ass to some pervert king to secure funds for the band. A very complex character.

Every person has a "spiritual presence" known as Od, and manipulating one's own Od allows spellcasters to do things like elemental possession. People with powerful Od tend to have forceful and magnetic personalities, and Griffith, as Femto, has such an overwhelming and powerful Od that people in his presence tend to be overwhelmed by his existence, viewing him as a living legend or savior, even if they never saw him before.

The result is that almost every single Apostle and just about all the normal humans in Midland worship Griffith, and even Guts felt his wrath slip away when they met again for the first time since Griffith reincarnated. It's a very powerful ability.

In a recent interview with Miura, he stated:
> I feel like i'm going to the end of what has been, for a very long time, an unenjoyable process. I joke with my editor sometimes and say, "maybes I should just have a panel which reads, 20 years later, showing the ending, showing where the characters wind up, who lives, who dies *laughs*. Come the end of Berserk, I wish to start a new series called, "The Game" which tells readers how to lose it."

Doesn't look promising.

He's officially the second protagonist. Miura agreed, don't bother him about it.

I agree Griffith fucked up there, but doesn't this prove my point? Griffith was so human and compassionate he almost threw away his dream because he lost his best friend.
I think Griffith has proven without a doubt he now has enough conviction to rule the world.

And everyone who got caught up with demonkind. Do you remember who Griffith fucking is?

How can you miss so damn hard at everything?
>Even the raping of Casca wasn't out of malice, it was so she could bear a son which Griffith could later reincarnate into
Nice headcannon, you dummy.
>This is ultimately the dilemma Guts will be faced with when he confronts Griffith, he knows Griffith is not an evil man.
Dilemma lmao.

He is a literal antichrist and it was also prophecized that he would, and did, bring an age of darkness to the world

It’s tricky because he’s basically simultaneously a hawk of light and darkness but ultimately he is an agent of the god hand and evil deep down

He proved his conviction by doing the opposite of throwing a tantrum because Guts left.
Sacrificing the band, his beloved family, for the power to rule.

>Griffith was so human and compassionate he almost threw away his dream because he lost his best friend.
The delusion is real.

>Even the raping of Casca wasn't out of malice, it was so she could bear a son which Griffith could later reincarnate into
The kid ending up in his vessel was a complete coincidence you goddamn speedreader.

>the god hand is evil meme, the ultimate boss is the idea of evil lul lmao

Plebs out.

Yes, he's talking like he knows shit but... Oh the cringe.

How is it headcannon? It's been proven Griffith is the child of Casca and the moonboy who visits them.

The dilemma is Guts' desire to kill Griffith for killing the band conflicting with him realising Griffith did everything with, what is now proven, a greater good in mind. Guts has always respected Griffith's ambitions.

You're just stating the obvious. I read the manga; I know what Griffith chooses to do. Of course the end result creates some ambiguity. We can argue with hindsight, but the fact is that Griffith didn't appear to have any idea of what he would eventually do in the moment, and yet he still, for his own personal ambition for power, chose to sacrifice everyone. A better question to ask me is, "If you had the chance to sacrifice 100 people for your own personal gain...?" That is assuming I didn't realize that my personal gain would also result in saving the world or something. I might do it, and I might eventually save the world, but I don't think I'd consider myself a good person.

>How is it headcannon?
Because he didn't even know Casca was pregnant and Read the fucking manga and fuck off.

Are people really this dense and rword?
I can't talk/write to you like a normal person would, you just amaze me.
Wake up, user, you're living in another world.

What are the odds of these two ending up fucking? I think they're really cute together..

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>rword
What the fuck are you doing you retard?

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0, they're like family.

How old is Erica right now?

>So what's the difference?
They are burning in hell for eternity user

>Probably even cooperate
That's not how rape works

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Looks like she's about 10. Once she starts going through puberty, she'll be all over Rickert.

>Even the raping of Casca wasn't out of malice
guts was forced to watch tho

>A better question to ask me is, "If you had the chance to sacrifice 100 people for your own personal gain...?"

I guess you're right in that but as far as Griffith was concerned him being given god powers = another chance at his dream. And I'm happy you say I'm stating the obvious. That's all I was trying to do.

Can you tell me what I'm wrong about? And it's okay, you can call me retard.

Good point! That's definitely evil.

Maybe some kind of petty revenge for Guts leaving the band? Makes it at least somewhat human-like but still definitely evil.

Sorry user, I guess those millions will now die but my ass still hurts.

>be leader of a merry gang of mercs
>make a bunch of friends
>get captured and tortured
>get rescued by all your friends
>immediately make a deal with the devil and rape your best buddy's girl

so sympathetic and misunderstood

>builds everything he has on a mountain of corpses, the mortar of his empire is the blood and sinew of thousands of people he sacrificed for power, and even countless more innocents who payed the price for his ambition

>He proved his conviction by doing the opposite of throwing a tantrum because Guts left.
>Sacrificing the band, his beloved family, for the power to rule.

Wrong, he threw a tantrum because Guts was no longer his betest friend forever, almost got the entire band killed for it, ruined years of everyone hard work, got tortured by the dwarf freak, and in the end he got bailed out by God hand.
Even then, Guts and the band came back to save him, and how did he repay their loyalty? He back stabbed them to undo the consequences of his own mistakes, no one but Griffith was at fault for what happened to him, he made the wrong choice every step of the way.

Him raping Casca wasn't about Casca in any way whatsoever. It was about punishing Guts, hence why during the entire ordeal Femto didn't look at Casca even once, his eyes were firmly locked to Guts'. Guts' despair was what he desired from that, and Guts' child being born a half-demon is further despair to be piled on that. The baby becoming part of the Egg-Like Apostle when Griffith was reincarnating through him could be fate, or could be just pure chance that Griffith didn't account for.

what about all the innocent people who died as a direct result of his actions? He tore the fabric of reality apart and merged the spirit world and the physical world. Those who can't evacuate to Falconia are torn apart, eaten alive, raped, and tortured mercilessly by supernatural beings, all because of griffith. Those people would never willingly lay down their lives for his ambition.

He only killed those who chose to not follow their own dreams.

Probably the human sacrifice that got him there

I just hope the IoE stays retconned

>all those innocent civilians who died because he wanted a kingdom
>all those innocent people who were following their dreams who were killed by trolls and shit

Brainlet

You are right about this. I sympathize less with him now but still definitely respect his ambitions.

This is true. I suppose it can still fall under the umbrella of "do the ends justify the means", but it is definitely another black mark under the means category.

Thanks for the discussion anons, I'm going to bed now and look forward to reading your replies tomorrow. Or you can call me names if you want.

this, people are too dumb to understand that griffith became an god hand member in order to save humanity, griffith is literally a hero

Fuck off,Sonia.

>Sonia
no, I will not fuck off, because there is place for you in griffith's dream too !

Hes doing all that to attract more people into his slaughter house. Whatever the reason, griffith will sacrifice all of his subjects and kingdom again. Everyone there will die.

The literal incarnation of evil is never a good guy user

He made a deal with demons and raped a woman and killed his entire Band of the Hawk. Nice bait.

I LOVE SLAN

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Why do you keep chasing Griffisu when you have a handsome knight like Mule right beside you?

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It doesn't matter, this plot already got dropped like the other ones.

Dont you mean nword or cword, not RETARD

I really liked his sword grave.

What?

Shit comeback Kiddo.
Explain hin going Full retard after getting Beaten by Guts in the duel not being his fuck up

he's a good person, killing a few people to save and improve the lifes of millions, that's what means to be a leader, I would give up my life for griffith

Griffith didn't have any of that shit in mind when he sacrificed them, nor did they have an illusions of giving up their lives for some greater good. They only accepted Griffith as their leader because they thought they'd benefit from it, not be slaughtered and eaten by demons.

>Whore Princess of the Uterine Sea
>Offering a condom

He didn't cry because he got bested. He cried because losing meant parting with his best friend.

His fuck-up is that he's hypocritical to his standards of "friendship" that he laid out to the princess which Guts overheard

>best friend.
I'm pretty sure it was a lot more homo than that. A LOT more homo.

No, you fujo piece of shit. It wasn't friendship to Griffith, but neither was it homo. It was about his possession rejecting him and fucking off. His ego couldn't deal with it.

I mean, he sacrificed the remaining fraction of his soldiers.
In the position he's in accepting that your soldiers will die is probably the first thing he learned early in his career. It would make sense to sacrifice a fraction of one army for his dream, since the alternative lead to way more people dying. The way I see it, he's sacrificing a few hundred one time, instead of recruiting new members, seeing them die, and killing a few hundred in battle over and over again.

As for raping Casca. I got nothing for that, he's definitely in the wrong there.

I'm not even a fag enabler, but you're fucking blind if you didn't see any homoerotic subtext at all on Griffith's end.

because the whole thing is a larp for him
he could get rid of the monsters and apostles with a swipe of his hand, he's just playing at being hero and king until the Godhand gets bored and decides to sacrifice 90% of the world population again

this, I can understand griffith because i'm narcissistic faggot too, I got fucking angry when my "best friend" left my side because he belongs to me, he's mine, it's about pride.

Griffith is a sociopath, he doesn't give a shit about human relationships. Everything he has ever done to others has just been him using them like tools and now one of his possessions just stood up, slapped his face and left.

and the result is an utopia, based griffith.

Also remember only Falconia is safe right now the rest of the world is being terrorized by fantasy monsters because of the roar of the astral world, or whatever it was termed when Griffith killed Ganishka

>implying Falconia isn't about to get FESTIVALED

I haven’t read Bessel but I’ve heard the person is OP’s pic related is a bitch. How true is this?

>Grants free education for all children regardless of background.
>Integrates kushan immigrants
>Not racist
>Build roads and infrastructure

>meanwhile the monsters he brought to the city are eating people inside falconia during the night

Bessel huh, I havent read that either.

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>destroy the entire fucking world
>create a sanctuary for people to be safe from the hellscape you created
>wow, I'm such a good guy!!

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>offers condom
>secretly pokes holes into them

based

Ah I see. I really like the lore that's been written. I hope the IOE becomes canon one day. That was my favorite part of lore. Thanks for your detailed response user

>It's a Griffith chapter

typical leftist. betray everyone who you pretended to stand for and import millions of low iq brown serfs to create a new mullato empire.

Gotem

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Left and right-wing politics have always been about classist conflict, not racial, regardless of what the american/capitalist media wants you to think.

Can’t wait to see Sonia’s face when Femto rapes her with his fat demon cock.

That depends. What is Griffith's tax policy?

>hell
There's no indication that the Berserk world has any other afterlife than the Vortex of Souls.

He would actually have a tiny shota-cock,since he is using a mere vessel.

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>this all came about cause Guts was the only man who wanted to find his own dream
Griffith is a hypocritical bitch who holds people to standards he doesn’t even hold himself to.

Incarnated Griffith will become a schizoposter and separate from Godhand Femto entirely.

>I lived long enough to see user say Griffith did nothing wrong but unironically.

>Even the raping of Casca wasn't out of malice
kek, i'm always amazed to what lengths griffithcuck shitposting goes to

Nigga his vision in the eclipse is him realizing he forgot about his dream because of him cherishing guts , the only reason he went to jail was because he got depressed and went to fuck the princess

>Not Racist
Sounds pretty evil to me. That just means anti-white.

That's the price of freedom

Dio hates white people confirmed

So all white people are racist?

Against themselves apparently.

Damn. Thank god im not a pale wh*Toid sub-human.

>WE

ARE VENOM!

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>1 chapter in the last 12 months

Why does Miura keeps saying that even though he's in his 50s, he's still working the same amount of hours he did when he first started?

Eddie Brock is white as hell.

Thanks for the laugh

Only after he was reduced to an irreparable husk of his former self. If I recall the torturer severed all his muscles or something so he couldn't even move. I think he lost his tongue too.
So his choices were basically sacrifice everyone else or kill himself. Because there's no way he'd want to keep living in that state.

It's not morally justified, but if you were in that position you might do the same. It wasn't so much "furthering his own agenda" as it was "saving his own neck".
Plus there were probably only like 5 people in his group he was actually close to. Most of them were just nameless pawns.

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That's a total alpha move

the berserk(2016) is kinda growing on me. in my opinion more anime should be made just like that

There's a difference between sacrificing yourself for someone else and being fucking murdered by them.

Imagine your friend jumps in front of you to take a bullet. He dies, and that makes him a great man, and a true friend to you. Now imagine you stick a knife in his fucking throat and he dies brutally and in pain because of your fucking greed. That is not a selfless act from him, but an evil, merciless, selfish act from you.

Even little kids can understand this shit, but I suppose autists take longer to develop.

How was he to know the nature of what he was sacrificing them to? He might have hoped it would be painless.

You mean that 3d animated abomination? I had to break my rule of always watching at least 3 episodes of an anime before dropping it for that one.

Welfare state is a sure sign of villainy

t. Brit who voted Remain and knows nothing about America beyond what BBC tells him

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We already knew that, why else did /Pol/nareff(introduced as one of his minions) join the side of the heroes?

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Griffith should be the one on the main track, with the five others on the side track

Yeah, I realized that right after I posted it.

Bro, it's murder no matter how you slice it, your only falling back on the degrees of how bad it was.

Murder is murder, senpai. A knife to the throat would sure as fuck be more painful than a bullet to the brain, but I'm still going to die cursing the fucker that murdered me either way.

I mean, his plan for charity is just standard modern era methods of government consolidating power, even if it might be nice for the people griffith also benefits a great deal. Maybe his plan is to conquer the world, which he actually does and everything goes smoothly to that point until there's nothing left to conquer and he gets post-goal depression and does something heinous again

You may not, because you might immediately merge with a version of yourself that avoided the bullet. You would still be you but you would also be you too.

He wants to be a god. Right now he's only the hand of one. If he had to claim the souls of hundreds of his friends and loyal followers to get that, what will he have to do to gain the next level?

Is this canon?

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Well your consciousness anyway.
You'd still die here.
You may have already died once or twice before.

Well, that goes without saying.

still, the question is what happens when he wins. His entire character is based on a desire to ascend higher, what happens when he reaches the top?

He betrayed everyone that ever trusted him and he's going to do it again

1: He caused the event that flooded the world with monsters and shit

2: The entity he serves, that created him, is LITERALLY the very Idea of Evil. A being created by the human subconscious to act as the reason behind all bad things. He's GOING to fuck all this up somehow, he literally has to.

3: This is all probably just part of some grander scheme. none of these people mean anything to him.

Miura didn't want to limit the story so much so he didn't include that episode in the volume, making it not canon. The big heart still appears on the previous episode as the entity that reincarnates God Hand members.
Maybe limiting the story is what Miura needs to start getting to the point.

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So it wasn't canon, but it will be?

I still think that Moon Child is basically the part of Griffith that retained the demon fetus' essence, and he purged it from himself to finally be free of any concern he had for Guts and Casca.

>mfw "'Til Next Time!"

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Well at least im like 99% sure the next chapter is Guts and Casca.

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What is canon is there being something that rules over the God Hand, the exact explanation of its nature is what Miura wants to keep vague. Although a lot of the lore he's introduced since they meet Flora kind of alludes to some of the ideas mentioned in the retconned episode, like human emotions influencing the astral planes.

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What if it's a Rickert and Kushan pals chapter instead?

At least it won't be another Griffith's tax policy chapter.

Fell out of the series a long time ago is Casca still a vegetable?

Yes and no.

True. Even if it's a Griffith chapter, it should be whatever was urgent enough to slip out of the window for. I read the series from beginning to end for the first time, and that process took less time than it takes for a chapter to come out. I wanted to wait until Berserk ended to start it, but now I suffer with you all.

You would have been waiting forever. Berserk is the Song of Ice and Fire of Japan.

Finally caught up with the manga yesterday. I kept delaying it for years in hopes that it would at least reach near the end but it doesn't seem likely. Anyways, good story so far with the Golden Age arc still remaining my favourite. I am glad to see Guts is not alone anymore and has comrades he can rely on. Schierke is my new favourite, she is the best and I also like Farnese ChadRickert what a great moment. Last, I was really happy to see Casca was back to her usual self but I am worried she will remember what happened during the Eclipse and it might break her again.

You can like Griffith as much as you want, he sure is an interesting character but don't excusing his psychopathic bs. He did it once, he will do it again as long as it's an end to his means and shit doesn't go according to his plan. Even if once we could argue he had empathy for the ones he wanted or viewed as his objects, those days are over. He is Evil reincarnated.

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You already said why he's the villain yourself.

>Not racist

I never thought of it that way, but you aren't wrong. I'm glad I went ahead and read it. Somehow I avoided most spoilers outside of the eclipse, so most things were a surprise. I wasn't ready for a lot, there are some things that just shouldn't be done to a person. Can't say I've read anything like it though.

>Just some losers hanging onto another man's dream.
>One of them leaves to find his own dream
>"AAAAHHHH WTF WHY AM I BEING CASTRATED AND LOSING MY DREAM!!!!!"

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He sacrificed not even 500 guys to make the world objectively better so he is very very bad I guess

> to make the world objectively better

>80% of the world's population either dead or in suffering as slaves or playthings to God knows what.
>rape trolls, giants and dragons tearing everything to pieces
>only one safe place for humans
>nothing makes sense
>leader of humans is literally a chaos god

What the fuck does "better" even mean to you?

And he thought about Guts AS he was fucking the princess. Hence, homo.