So serious discussion, exactly what was wrong with Shirou?

Ok well I guess I'll read the VN over time then. I've gotten through the prologue will it start picking up now?

>So serious discussion, exactly what was wrong with Shirou?
Not Enough Justice

Autism

> is it ok to be an anime only?
yes user. stop caring about the opinions of nerdwankers on Yea Forums lol
live your life
t. ultra fate/fag, it's not that serious

Ok thanks, is the correct order fan edit 2006 > UBW > HF I > HF II > F/Z?

F/Z is before any FSN, apart from that it's okay

>watching a prequel that spoils all of FSN first

F/Z is meant to be experienced after FSN VN. But for anime onlys I guess it's okay to start with F/Z since FSN adaptations are a mess.

No, first you watch the infodump episode from F/Z, then you watch episode 2 and 6 from 2006, then season 1 of UBW, skip season 2 then watch HF 2 and the second half of 1.

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survivor's guilt

this looks good to me

He's functionally retarded

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how the fuck can a prequel spoil what comes after it? it literally defeats the purpose of it

Is this bait? F/Z was written after FSN and it casually spoils pretty much everything from FSN aside from redman's identity.

It's okay if you shut the fuck up and never participate in Fate Discussions.

Imagine watching Star Wars prequels first and knowing who Darth Vader is from the beginning. It completely changes the way you see the original trilogy because it spoils most of the major twists

but archer doesn't even appears in the F/Z, what the hell man
this is exactly what happens when you watch Fate for the story and not for gazing *sparky sparky blades boom boom*

> but archer doesn't even appears in the F/Z, what the hell man
And that's why his identity isn't spoiled like I said.

the only thing spoiled is that Kotomine is a bad guy and you'll know the reason why Illya is such a fucking demonic prick to you

>Urobuchi: I thought that Fate/Zero was a story you couldn't understand without playing Fate/Stay Night. Surprisingly, there are people coming to Fate through Fate/Zero. However, because it's a story that plays with the spoilers of Fate/Stay Night, unless you read Stay Night first there is a lot presented you won't understand or identify. That's why, for a while, I declined allowing anyone but Type-Moon books to publish it.

Rin and Sakura thing is spoiled like 5 minutes in

>the only thing spoiled is that Kotomine is a bad guy
And Sakura's situation and true nature of the grail and Zouken's being a dick and Rin's father's fate and Saber's identity and Gil's existense and who Kerry truly was
>and you'll know the reason why Illya is such a fucking demonic prick to you
You find that out it in FSN too

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hey witty nigger, I only watched it for the fights

>you will never be the one to save Shirou from himself and settle down to live a quiet, peaceful life where he cooks delicious food for you everyday and does his best to make you happy

Feels bad man

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is Archer the Shirou from the Fate route?

It's supposed to be a Shirou from a route similar to Fate, but failing to bond with Saber. Like they never fall in love, and Saber never changes her wish.

>be a shitty magus
>get dragged unwillingly to a HGW
>fall in love with your 10/10 servant
>fail to get her to reciprocate
>donate your soul to the counterforce to become a hero
>become a metaphysical timeless slave hitman instead
>get summoned in the same time of your 10/10 servant
>she almost kills you the first time she sees you
Kek, Archer really is the Guts from Fate series

Where does this sudden agressive and sociopathic behavior comes from?

i like redman but i hate shirou

He had sword fetish

In the original anime series, he got chickenshit when he saw Saber naked instead of boning her.

redman is basically stoic Shirou

I get your point, but to appreciate someone you also gotta appreciate where they came from. Also Shirou is just a kid.

why is Archer so weak compared to other servants?

He likes worms

He's not some demigod, not from from age of gods, not famous at all, didn't become heroic spirit through purely his efforts.

Because he's just a regular guy with no legend behind him. But he's a jack of all trades and pretty damn clever.

>didn't become heroic spirit through purely his efforts
But that's exactly what he did dude, didn't you see the explanation of his Mind's Eye that he built from scratch?

He made contract with the World and that's why he's heroic spirit. Mind's eye is indeed ability he earned himself but it's not related to him becoming heroic spirit.

I don't know
I don't have any fucking idea how his fight with Kojiro Sasaki ended in a draw, ffs Kojiro is supposed to literally blitz him with his A+ agility

you can't become a real hero in the modern age where firearms exist

because this Holy Grail War happens before Shirou even had a legend about himself, and fame/hype/legend boosts a servants power

I wish this was part of the true end

plot asspull
you know that Gil has transcended precognition, right? he is supposed to know he is going to lose every time and still not take his enemies seriously

The fundamental, baked in, cannot be escaped, heart of Shirou's problem in Fate Stays the Night is that he isn't even "a" character at all. He exists solely as an amorphous narrative device for Nasu to was his idiotic thoughts on heroism.
"He" or rather the 5 or so modes of the MC-head has always been the absolute worst part of the whole shebang.

he spent too much time with Miss Poopy-pants Tohsaka and not enough time with Luvia-sama

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is Shirou getting raped by Rider when he has a wet dream about Tohsaka?

Pretty much. Maybe it's Rider's anus that was defenseless in the end.

Rider's H-scenes were truly the best

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is it really canon that giving a magus an enema is going to depower him?

you've been reading too many Rin fanfics
pastebin.com/JNrEh6fF

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Shirou never believed in saving everyone. The moment he had to kill Shinji to save the students inside Andromeda he did so without any hesitation

Because he doesn't use his bow, UBW is hilariously broken and Archer could've easily won the Fifth if he actually wanted to

Rider's scenes in general were the best.

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>weak
>casually shits A class fake noble phantasms

>casually shits
Sasuga Rin’s Servant.

His stats are trash though.

ohohoho!

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>what was wrong with shero?
we could start with `not fucking the illyas`

He should have chose Illyas.

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Ironically that was introduced after F/SN which makes his fight with Shirou and every subsequent loss even dumber.

it's wrong to fuck your sister, user

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It will never be okay. Secondaries have caused too much harm to the franchise and its fanbase as a whole for them to ever be forgiven by the rabid remnants. You either read the VN or accept you will forever be a fag and deserve everything done to you.

why is the "strongest servant" such a jobber?

Is it true that Luvia started all the incontinence and fucks-old-men rumors about Rin so that no man would court her, so she'd have no choice but to accept Luvia's marriage proposal?

When Shirou snaps, he SNAPS. He's ready to even kill Saber and Rin if they get Taiga killed.

Because he's got a ton of fancy gear but can barely use it properly. If EA wasn't such a simple to use yet massively strong weapon he'd be considerably less OP.

Because of a series of unfortunate narrative choices
>Nasu had him lose to Shirou for a narrative of the weakest overcoming the strongest
>Uro got high on his own farts and /k/ memes and overwanked Lancelot to let him stand a chance against Gilgamesh
>Natural powercreep in the franchise showing more and more impressive servants makes readers question how the comparatively understated Gil is stronger, forcing retcons to make him more powerful and his prior losses make less sense
>Shitposters can't read CCC so they take his losses out of context

Just sword spamming would be enough against most servants. But he doesn't even bother to do that properly unless he's up against his gay clay friend.

Nigga just read, it won't kill you

It sucks that the writers forgot Gil actually knew how to use his weapons in SN and clowned all over Saber by pulling out a different weapon with a different ability every time he swung.

I would rather save Medea desu.

> Uro got high on his own farts and /k/ memes and overwanked Lancelot to let him stand a chance against Gilgamesh
It isn't farfetched for serker Lancelot to be able to survive 16 gates sword spam. Narrative made it clear that if Gil opened more gates, Lancelot would be dead, but Tokiomi used command spell before that. Gil can open thousands of gates at once like he did against Enkidu.

Being in the presence of Shinji will do that to people.

Is Kojiro really that good? Especially when it comes to fighting somebody that has, you know, a bow.

Lancelot competing with Gilgamesh as he was wasn't the problem. The problem was that Lancelot shouldn't have had any of the abilities he was granted; other servants did all the exact things he was given A++ Noble Phantasms for, yet they didn't get any buffs or abilities at all from them. It's some blatant writer's pet favoritism.

It's okay if it's NBR

He only jobs in FSN and FGO though. In Zero and CCC he's pretty much unbeatable.

>FGO
How does he job in GO? He took on the entire roster of the 5th HGW at once and stomped their shit, just as a test to see if the master was competent enough to keep his interest. And in Babylon he's able to contribute enough to the Tiamat fight to keep in the running with two Grand Servants.

yes

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>How does he job in GO?
Paperwork.

He was a bit scared of letting her get in melee range when she was Rin's servant so he probably can't play around like that against top tier melee fighters that are not nerfed by terrible masters.

of course
Luvia wants Rin all to herself, so some pretty crazy measures had to be made such as keeping her chained up in the basement

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No

>How does he job in GO?
Even ignoring the training grounds. You kick his ass all the time in events, usually pretty easily even. He certainly has his moments, and is a very good servant. But he's nowhere near as OP as he's supposed to be.

I can sort of see that, but usually when he's jobbing isn't it in joke events like Gudaguda and Gilfest?

Well, for one: it's Emiya.
He's fighting a sword user below the level of heroic spirits who brings only raw skill to the table.
Like, "Trace, on" why not? Caster wasn't helping any time soon.
That match in particular naturally ends in a draw.

The thing is that all it really takes to counter sword spamming is either a strong enough move that allows for multi-countering while you close in or enough speed to close the gap. In actual melee Gil is far from the best, so if he doesn't have EA and if the other servant isn't vulnerable to enkidu he's fucked. If herc wasn't divine then he would have died unless he took out EA from the get-go.

Fate adaptation when

You also kick his ass in the Fate Zero crossover and I THINK the CCC event.

Didn't they unexpectedly ganged up on him with Saber, Lancer, Berserker, Waver and Mashu to beat him in Zero collab? I wouldn't really call that jobbing.

I guess? Still, shouldn't he have been able to win that fight lorewise?

Eh, not really. Waver planned the whole thing very carefully with the strategic prowess of Zhuge Liang to kill Gil before he had the chance to fight back, and he makes a point that Gilgamesh is the biggest threat in the war that will be a huge problem if they can't kill him before he can react.

After the Rin x Luvia scat adaptation

Even Gilgamesh can be taken down if he's ganged up on by a bunch of servants who are good matchups against him.

Agility isn't speed. It's a combination of your dexterity, swiftness, and speed.

>UBW is hilariously broken
And then it's stated by word of God that most decent servants could easily counter it. Archer's real strength is in his ability to make multiple Broken Phantasms whereas most servants could make on or two tops, and they'd lose their trump card for the rest of the war by doing so. UBW is impractical for direct combat. He has to read off the chant, spend an exorbitant amount of mana to activate and maintain it, and pray that the opponent isn't a pinnacle of martial prowess, which many servants are, that can just no-sell his shittier version of the Gate of Babylon. It only surpasses it in the speed with which it can draw weapons while active, but loses out on weapon quality and variety. Most servants would absolutely smoke him before he even gets it set up. The only reason it works on Gilgamesh is because of his massive hubris in thinking he can just take on everything by throwing a pile of shiny weapons at it. Going down the list of the 5th war alone
>Saber
Faster and stronger than him. Actually has a decent chance of swatting away weapons and will likely kill him before he even activates UBW
>Lancer
Much faster than him, more skilled in melee, is damn near immune to projectiles, can just carpet bomb him with Gae Bolg's second attack. Hard counter.
>Rider
Much faster, can freeze him in place with Cybele.
>Caster
One of the few he has a chance against simply because he saw through her tricks already. Not much way to deal with spam unless she's in her workshop.
>Assassin (Kojirou)
Would probably get fucked because he lacks a magical weapon to deflect weapons with and he loses his terrain advantage once he's in UBW.
>Assassin (Hassan)
Hassan is quick and resourceful enough to probably never let the fight progress to the point that he can use UBW. Dies once he's in it.
>Berserker
At best, EMIYA may score a double KO, but Berserker almost took down Gilgamesh if not for Enkidu regardless of the spam he faced.

He repelled every single Servants who tried to enter Ryuudou Temple. Even Berserker.

States usually aren't that important unless it's direct fight with no gimmicks. What really fucks Archer is that he's outpaced in skill by other fighters. He can have as many trump cards as he wants, but other servants only need their one or two Noble Phantasms to cover the ground. Having several NPs doesn't really matter if you aren't a master of it like your opponent is of theirs. And even with Rin, it takes Archer a decent amount of time to use either a Broken Phantasm or UBW.

Wait, what?
When did that happen?

That's more because of the terrain advantage and backup from Caster. It was stated that she came out to help with Berserker when he showed up by using her magecraft to weigh him down since she knew how much of a problem Hercules is thanks to her living experience with him. Illya eventually got bored and just left.

He didn't die when he was killed.

And that's just not healthy.

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If you're asking about when he snaps at Shinji, that's Fate route. If it's about Taiga situation, that's in UBW in the scene where she rule breakers Saber.

An injured not fully recovered Archer took down 4 lives from berserker when they fled the castle before the Rin and Saber sex scene. UBW needs tons of mana but the whole point is that the weapons he summons use much more power than he is capable of actually outputing.

If Shirou can beat Alter Saber using Archer's arm in Sparks Liner High, Archer can probably fight Saber well enough.

Archer can stop Gae Bolg with the shield, and the very first fight scene during the prologue is Archer pulling out swords and fighting him to a standstill.

"One of the few he has a chance against" for Caster? The one he canonically murders in his route? Stop huffing paint dude.

>took down 4 lives from berserker
6 lives actually, that's very impressive
> Sparks Liner High
Alter has worse agility and instinct than vanilla, so it's questionable if that combo would work against her normally
>Cu
Archer can barely survive in melee against him when Cu isn't under command spell effect. He blocked Gae Bolg but received a lot of damage and spent tons of magical energy in the end, while Cu came out without a scratch in that fight.

Archer's good because of his versatility and knowing weaknesses of his opponents. But in raw skill and power he usually outclassed. It also doesn't help that 5th war servants are all generally of very high tier.

What a pleb.

While you have a point about Berserker, he still likely gets stomped even at full health thanks to the fact that Hercules can damn near take down Gilgamesh if not for Enkidu, something Archer lacks. Whatever Archer throws, Berserker will eventually regenerate from and keep charging. Archer only has so many A-rank Noble Phantasms as well.
Regular Saber is more mobile than Saber Alter and Saber Alter deliberately never fired Excalibur against Shirou in Sparks Liner High, only engaging in melee combat even though Saber Alter's biggest advantage over regular Saber is the fact she can spam Excalibur as much as she wants and that she has a strong mana defense.
Archer can stop Gae Bolg once, and it leaves him incredibly injured while Lancer is left without a scratch on him. The first encounter where Archer was "fighting him to a standstill," was only because Lancer was forced to hold back in their first encounter by Kotomine. In melee combat when Lancer can go all-out, Archer gets tossed around like a ragdoll like he did later on in UBW route until Lancer decides that he wants to finish things with Gae Bolg, which still ends in his favor. Getting Lancer into UBW wouldn't do Archer any good either since he has a skill that's a direct counter to shooting weapons at him.
As for Caster, I already gave you that point. She's one of the few Archer stands a decent chance against. She has a couple odd possible ways to beat him, and none of them are in a direct fight. She's a Caster though, it's not exactly impressive to be able to beat her in direct combat.
The point is that Archer's greatest strengths are his trickery, guile, and versatility. He doesn't do well in a straight-up fight with traditional servants, but he's great at goading his foes into unfavorable circumstances. That's why his true trump cards are Broken Phantasms. They're almost guaranteed one-shot attacks that he's sneaky and patient enough to setup.