Steins;Gate 0 ruined Steins;Gate

>plotholes/deus ex machinas in original Steins;Gate

Examples?

Not for first time. For first time, finish Steins;Gate. They are different works.

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this pretty much summarizes my thoughts
youtube.com/watch?v=jyODPI_hTRE

How can you be this much of a brainlet?

True Route ZerOkabe appearance. Literally Deus Ex Machina.

0 VN did a good job.
I was ready to be disappointed but it was well done. Maybe not necessary but it didn't affect the first one so I'm okay with it.

S;G 0 does a poor job as an interquel. Just finish the original.

>anime tubers
kys
How do you mean user? I know they are different but is what is basically S;G part 2 really that different from 1 or 3?

>brainlet YouTuber misinterprets original characters and gets mad when sequel builds on top of his fan fiction

Yes, that's the obvious part. What else?
How was it different from the show?

explain

Why didn't Daru just marry Suzuha? He could've had more Suzuhas with Suzuha.

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that might cause a paradox

Watch S;G

No such thing as paradoxes in the S;G worldline model you dumb fuck. Or at least there shouldn't be if they actually followed it.

0 VN > S;G VN > S;G Anime > shit > 0 Anime

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>No such thing as paradoxes in the S;G worldline model you dumb fuck
Meeting yourself is paradox in S;G worldline model.

Reminder germans are close to dethroning S;G as best time travel series with Dark.

Grand Father paradox is brought up as a possibility by several characters, if I remember correctly. Even if there isn't really, WL convergence would just "correct" any possibility like that. Like when Okabe thought about raping Suzuha but it didn't really happen.

No it was just a letdown.

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>Grand Father paradox
Literally impossible in the timeline jump model of time travel. Any cases of them suggesting this are either in universe deception/misunderstanding or bad writing.

Based

Steins;Gate 0 is a full-length work. It has its own tone, introduces some new characters, has its own plot arcs. Steins;Gate was written and paced to be self-contained, Steins;Gate 0 was written to be interquel (and expects that you have finished Steins;Gate).

No. Rintaro observes himself. There is no logical reason for it to be a paradox.

How is season 2? I can't remember shit from the first one and don't wanna rewatch if the second is shit.

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Dark would have been kino if it was a self contained story, as was clearly originally intended. But they went for the sequel and ruined their own model of time travel.

youtu.be/U0vUIrNyzTs?t=389
>don't meet past yourself
>it will cause time paradox
It was also mentioned in SG0 VN, SG Phenogram(Suzuha story)

I did. I thought the whole point of 0 was that Okabe takes a different route after accidentally killing Kurisu by giving up only to eventually go back to searching for Steins Gate. How is that not independent of the route Okabe takes in S;G?

Finish Steins;Gate. Also, time travel makes the chronology of stories non-linear.

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In the S;G worldline model meeting the rintaro from the original timeline wouldn't cause a paradox, it would shift you to a new timeline just like every other change. Stop being a brainlet.

Not it's time paradox in first place that might destabilize worldline.

Because Okabe hadn't previously seen himself. Events had to happen as they did in his memories.

You mean, it made it 10 times better, right?

I've seen S;G three or four times, and I still don't see why 0 can't just be disregarded since both S;G and 0 both arrive at the Steins Gate timeline.

Honestly you can ignore 0 completely and not really lose anything other than Maho and Leskinen.

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it was great, you definitely should check it out if you liked s1

*TIPS*

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I liked 0 a lot until the second half or so. Can't remember exactly where it jumped the shark.

Live action dethroning animation? Really nigga?

vn was pretty kino
dont know about the anime
only read true route though, I don't care about "false" routes

Explain why then.

The time leap machine was already doing the exact thing thay causes time paradoxes in the typical loop models, altering "the past". The d-mail from future okabe would cause a time paradox in such a model too. It didn't and doesn't because what happens instead is a shift to a new timeline where there is a new okabe doing something new. The worldline shifts the instant something changes, the reason there is no reading steiner jump is because you are not experiencing things from the perspective of future okabe.

They went the separate worldline route to avoid having to think about paradoxes to begin with. Why suddenly introduce the idea in the last episode with no logic to back it up?

When it gave everyone helium tit implants?

At worst, you would get shifted to a new worldline.

Obligatory.

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and yet Kurisu was beloved by God.

She should trade that for the love of her father.

The Okabe having to avoid seeing the old Okabe thing makes sense because they want him to do everything exactly the same way as before, believing Kurisu to be dead, so that when he comes back he is still on the right wordline. The d-mail from the future is what shifted him to steins gate timeline, not the saving kurisu bit - because this was already the steinsgate timeline and kurisu was already saved by the same okabe. Seeing himself would dump them on a different timeline that isn't steinsgate and predicting what happens then is crapshoot.

I just came here to remind you that 0 anime was an brilliant adaptation of the vn. Though it was really hard to put everything in a single timeline, they somehow did it and even fixed the only problems the vn had. The new soundtrack is also very good. Pretending a masterpiece and one of the best anime of all times is somehow bad, you only make a fool out of yourself. Stop trying to fit in the contr/a/rian shitfest, toss moe aside and start appreciating true art.

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Maybe it was compensation for being the focal point of two mass killings the likes of which the world has never seen and having to grow up with Shouichi.

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I liked S;G 0 mostly because I like the setting and characters. The plot was decent, I didn't really expect a masterpiece given what they had written themselves into. But some of the story decisions were rather disappointing and difficult to rationalize.

Please don’t remind me of the rooftop trainwreck, user

Ask Suzuha, she literally tells with japanese accent "Time Paradox".
Also it was somewhere mentioned in VN about destabilizing world line because of this kind of paradoxes, but i will struggle to find it anyway.
I shown you literal proof already.

The thing is that the logical interpretation is - they would end up on an unfixable clusterfuck of a timeline with two okabes.

Maybe that's what they mean by time paradox? I cannot come up with any other explanation.

Reminder that unless Okabe doesn't save Mayuri and Suzuha 0 can't be canon because you still experience time while time travelling and going from 2011 to 13000 BC would take 70 days, Suzuha and Mayuri died while time travelling and Okabe did too. Then if they somehow survived trapped in a little ass machine they would still need to experience 70 days again but now going from the past to 2025

As for Suzuha saying things, Suzuha is a character written by people. It's possible for things she says to not be consistent with the established setting. Because people can make mistakes. These are known as plot holes. But I think the rationalization I made is somewhat satisfactory.

So how does Reading Steiner work? Suppose 2036 okabe sends back suzuha, and the worldline jumps to steins gate. Does his mind and memories assimilate the okabe who had lived in the timeline up until that point? So he is literally killing the selves from the timelines he jumps to with reading steiner?

Because at no point are we shown him assimilating the altered memories of the versions of him that live on whatever worldline he currently is.

By going to save Kurisu, Okabe essentially signs his own death warrant in a few decades. The character we followed in S;G gets killed and consumed by the one in S;G 0

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He fucks off in 2025 specifically so that doesn't happen.

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okabe disappeared from 2025, reading steiner doesn't replace steins gate okabe

doesn't he intend to bring them back? why would he do everything he did if he has no intention of actually going to the steinsgate worldline?
He was shown meeting Suzuha and Mayushii. I assumed they went back?

Are you baiting? Did you not watch or read the original at all user? Why do you think Okabe got that video from his future self that made him try saving Kurisu again at the end of original S;G?

he goes back with a battery for the quantum computer in suzuha's time machine, he wasn't planning on taking them with his machine, they don't fit, he went back to cheat the universe but then don't forget

Bullshit. S;G can stand on its own feet, S;G0 can't ruin anything.

His story is a sad one that can simply not end with him surviving and the happy ending he creates can only be experienced by a different Okabe. He only has a battery for Suzuha and Mayuri and is not able nor plans to return himself as that would cause him consuming the memories of the SG worldline Okabe.
If there's any consolation to it, my headcanon is hoping his existence just gets erased/overwritten since it's dependant on the actions of the future and he doesn't have to die alone and tired there.

Suzuha disappeared in the original when she returned to the point her existence would no longer make sense (the point where the timeline shifts). I assume it's the same in 0: Okabe can travel together with Mayuri and Suzuha and when they reach the steins gate start point they all disappear.

The 70 days thing notwithstanding, why wouldn't he go back? To not destroy the other Okabe? That was never mentioned. And what about Mayushii and Suzuha? What exactly was his intention?

>If there's any consolation to it, my headcanon is hoping his existence just gets erased/overwritten since it's dependant on the actions of the future and he doesn't have to die alone and tired there.
That isn't how steins gate universe works. He dies, and since he is long dead there is no memory transfer to the protagonist okabe. Or alternatively he comes back, and then he shifts to the mind of the other okabe, taking over and killing the guy.

not really, Okabe left before luka sent the d-mail, if it was even possible for them to survive in the machine without oxygen or food, they could arrive moments after Okabe disappeared and even then they could still live until 2036 because the worldline won't change until the Suzuha from that worldline travels from 2036 to 2010, if Suzuha isn't there then the worldline can't change

He could also just get erased since the beta worldline is no longer active when SG is achieved. He should simply not exist there similar to how Suzuha never comes back to the past in the original/

If there is more than one worldline "concurrently" that means all those horrible fucked up realities still exist, user.

What happens to his consciousness?

But what about Amadeus?

did you (You)ed wrong person?

Too confusing to enjoy

It was simpler than the first one though...

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But that future will no longer exist. How you put things, the Suzuha traveling from 2036 to 2010 should also be able to live after 2010, yet she disappears.
The way I see it, physical time travel should follow the same rules as d-mail. When they send a d-mail and manage to change the wordline, you have an anomally, a mail that basically came out of nowhere (nobody sent it) on the new wordline. Same thing with time travel, for example steins gate will have an "outworldly" Suzuha that came out of nowhere in 2010, because the real Suzuha in this timeline no longer travels to the past. The only extra problem is what happens after. With mail, the data is saved on your phone and that's it, the original signal that traveled no longer exists, you don't have to worry about it. Meanwhile, a person is still there after making the changes, so what happens with it? And this is where they came out with the rule that it disappears at the moment the timeline starts diverging, so it only exists for a short time. With the 0 Mayuri and Suzuha, there should be the same thing, they should disappear at the same moment as the original Suzuha. The problem here is that they're stuck in a distant past so they can't reach the point of disappearance. So in the steins gate wordline, an extra Okabe just gives these two extra Mayuri and Suzuha the mean to end their existance in the proper way, without starving to death (ignoring the 70 days thing). And I don't see why he wouldn't do the same for himself. Anyway, that's how I understand it and what I think the reason for this final time travel is.

The thing is that the Suzuha in the original S;G is not the one from 0, the Suzuhas from 0 have no idea of what operation skuld is because that didn't exist yet, however the Suzuha that Okabe meets in the original knew that he was going to get a message telling himself to watch the TV and also that there was a video message he had gotten a while back. Operation Skuld Suzuha (worldline 1.123581) has to go from 2036 to 2010 or the world line can't change. The point is that the future won't disappear YET if they arrive before 2036.

This is the suppoed true explanation but it's no use trying to make sense out of it beacuse the writers put no thought while making S;G 1 and 0 so why would I waste even more time trying to come up with ideas that will still end up contradicting each other because not even the writers knew what they were doing. This is especially noticeable when you read the Q&A from amadeus script

But why should that literally mean "time paradox (concept)", rather than that contradicting what has and must happen to reach the S;G worldline?

Steins; gate was never good

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t.

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It really shouldn't. I'm not that guy but I think the closest thing to what they could mean by time paradox is the scenario described in

lemme guess
Boku no Hero fan?

Anime ruined Steins;Gate.

No, but anyone with good taste knows that Steins; gate is bad series

Good thing it's part of the Science Adventure series, then.

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>flanderises its main chatacters
Great sequel

I liked the jumping perspectives, but did miss the cheery suzuha.
Routes are all over the place, but that was part of the fun.

But steins gate 0 was kino, not as kino as the original but still kino

0 vn and anime go hand in hand and make up for each others short comings

It was one of the worst shows last year. I don't see how anyone could enjoy it.

>It was the best show last year. I don't see how anyone could not enjoy it.
Fixed, now fuck off contrarian.

and why was it the best

>Improves on the game in some areas
>Answers the biggest question left from the original
>B-But S;G0 is b-bad!

Using monoculture terminology is generally a warning sign of bad taste. Though in this case I agree with the zoomer, 0 was still pretty good compared to most other shows, it just wasn't as good as the original (and could never stand on its own).

>shit art that is constantly off model
>shit animation
>shit pacing from trying to adapt every route in 1 storyline
>shit directing, who thought getting the Qualidea Code guy was a good idea
>the action scenes
There was probably more things wrong with it but it has been a year now and I can't remember it that well.

you forgot
>ruins every character previously established
What they did to Mayuri was a crime

Eh, I didn't enjoy it, but there are plenty more shows that are far worse than S;G 0

Last few seconds and that one episode made it passable to me.

>that one episode
which

>I don't see how anyone could enjoy it.
If you weren't here for S;G you didnt.

Are you saying those that weren't here for S;G didn't like 0?

I watched S;G and S;G 0 just recently and I enjoyed them.

what the fuck are you talking about. I went in there for more steins gate and came out with the characters i'd grown attached to completely fucking destroyed

Too good I dropped it after 3 episodes

So why did the steins:gate shows get 24 episodes while chaos:head/child only got 12? Only read chaos:child but that could have been easily as good an anime as steins:gate had the not had to rush through everything

C;H anime flops, thus they're not willing to spend more on its sequel. They just gave it 12 episodes and call it a day

Head got 12 because they had to rush. (Same reason that NoAH exists).
Child got 12 because they (the production committee, though Mages apparently thought this as well) didn't want to do more. The anime was apparently intended to be more of a highlight reel then a proper adaptation.

Can you imagine how the C;C anime could have been if it was longer and got some of the delusion triggers in

What are you guys talking about the chaos series never got an anime

This
In fact, anime being linear is a huge upgrade over the vn

That's because the Steins;Gate 0 anime isn't an adaptation of the VN, contrary to what the name suggests. It's an adaptation of the Steins;Gate Phenogram Light Novel and Manga, and the Arclight manga, and they just repurposed some elements from the VN to pad out the episode count.

Epigraph, not Phenogram. Fuck these wordy latin names.

>Steins;Gate Phenogram Light Novel and Manga, and the Arclight manga
If this was true then why are the designs from the VN?

No, Phenogram is totally unrelated to 0

I mispoke, meant to say Epigraph, which the Steins;Gate 0 VN is also loosely based on.

...

If it was an adaptation of Epigraph Okabe should have locked like this.

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Okabe didn't really look like that in the light novel though

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I wouldn't say ruined but it was really disappointing.

Okay? Except the actual sequence of events literally follows Epigraph's telling with relatively minor deviations, meanwhile it's not even close to the VN's telling (nor should it be)

So what happens to the "native" Steins;Gate Okabe? I don't mean the one who went with the timemachine that disappeard part-way in transition and "somehow" ended up in the Steins;Gate timeline with his self-inflicted injuries and all that, but instead the Okabe who "started off" in the Steins;Gate timeline to begin with. Since Alpha worldline Okabe appearently didn't timeleap, there should have been at least 2 different Okabe, no? I say that without having seen the ending yet though, so if it's actually explained in the VN or anime, then it's fine.

I don't understand what Okabe you are refering to.

I think he means the Okabe in the very beginning that saw the fake dead Kurisu and ran off then started the whole event while the Okabe that experienced everything went back in time and created the timeline.

Finish the story first, there's no way to answer your question or correct any mistakes you've made without major spoilers.

I think it should be 0kabe

The anime, yes. The VN, not really.

The VN just canonized a bunch of borderline-fanfiction that already existed in spinoff material. It doesn't even contribute to SciADV's overarching battle against the Committee of 300. Basically, it's skippable, therefore harmless.

How is this even possible?

The anime is so bad it could taint your overall memory of the series.

No, I mean how can the anime ruin it and the vn not?

The VN has some passable arcs in the mix. The entirety of the anime is trash.

You haven't played the VN if you don't think that the anime improved on the visit to alpha, 3000 time leaps and MWC

Ok, so no argument, totally unexpected from a 2 digit iq monkey.

The way the anime present the story is awful.
It adding some good stuff doesn't excuse that.

I have and I don't. The 3K time leaps didn't even matter, the return to the alpha world line never made sense either. Taking already bad/neutral thinks and making them slightly less annoying doesn't count as a substantial improvement.
There's nothing to argue. The VN has Moeka x Maho, The Soviet arc. Leskinen has motivations and a goal that actually make sense instead of wanting to explode the world with a paradox or something like a retard. That's just off the top of my head.

Wouldn't it be funny if someone thought we were actually being serious with all this 0 hate

If they saw the threads as it was airing they would know that we're serious.

I was only talking about those sections, learn to read.

That doesn't invalidate what I said.

Let me put it like this:

OG;Okabe, the guy who we followed throughout the original Steins;Gate VN

0;Okabe, the guy who we followed throughout the Steins;Gate 0 VN

Steins;Okabe, the guy who was born and raised in the Steins;Gate timeline to begin with and sort of should still be existing since OG;Okabe physically got into that timeline instead of time-leaping

What happened to Steins;Okabe has been bothering me since finishing the original Steins;Gate VN. It can't be that OG;Okabe who saved Kurisu by stabbing himself "replaced" the Steins;Okabe, since he physically got transported into that timeline in some strange way where the timemachine succeeded in bringing him to his destination while the machine itself also disappeared (which sort of contradicts that timemachine travel always slightly changes the worldline). So since OG;Okabe arrived in Steins;Gate timeline physically with his wounds from his self-stabbing still there, Steins;Okabe should still be existing, logically speaking. So where did Steins;Okabe disappear to?
Does S;G0 give any answers to this? Just a yes or no, or a "it gets sort of hinted at but never explicitly explained" answer please.

It's just a plot hole. Hhe should have Steiner'd into the local Okabe as soon as the timeline was firmly off of the Beta worldline.

Only one WL is physical at once the others are only possibilities, there is only one Okabe,the only issue was that to get to S;GWL 0kabe had to get rid of himself since RS would fuck with moving over to S'GWL hence MWC

>Only one WL is physical at once the others are only possibilities, there is only one Okabe,the only issue was that to get to S;GWL 0kabe had to get rid of himself since RS would fuck with moving over to S'GWL hence MWC
That makes no sense. At the end of the original Steins;Gate we see that two Okabe can exist at the same time, since Okabe could observe his past self, which proves that "physically moving between timelines via timemachine" = "local version of oneself can still exist at the same time and doesn't get erased" and the only exception to that is for multiple timemachine-traveling Okabe to meet each other, since every jump slightly changes the timeline to prevent that from happening. But since OG;Okabe used the timemachine at the end to get to the future of the Steins;Gate Timeline PHYSICALLY with his wounds and all that still existing, which the local Okabe wouldn't have, so the "local" Okabe should also still be existing, but instead gets completely glossed over. So what happened to that local Okabe?

But OG;Okabe and Steins;Okabe are the same person. The wordline only becomes different when he returns with the time machine. The whole point with "deceive the world" is to change only the future, so there's no reason to jump into a different present.

Steins;Gate has plenty of plot holes and squabbling about them is pointless desu.

When I say one Okabe I mean along one world line, if you wanted Okabe could travel back to one point in time from diffrent points in time and there could be 100 Okabes in one room, but they'd all be from the same world line

On your other point, Okabe has to get to SGWL by getting himself stabbed there's no way around it since SGWL doesn't exist until the events of the story play out to move onto that world line

No that can't be. Jumping in timer ALWAYS causes a slight deviation in convergence meter, which, for example, prevented OG;Okabe at his second attempt attempt to save Kurisu from meeting his self that made the first, failed attempt.
In addition while Okabe returning to 2 or so weeks in the future made sense before reaching the Steins;Gate timeline, it doesn't make any sense when he DOES reach it, since it made the Time Machine non-existent, hence in that timeline there is no logical reason for the local Okabe to disappear, since he couldn't have "left" in the first place due to no timemachine existing, and probably never having been involved in any timemachine antics to begin with.

I think the time machine still exists in the s;g timeline, it just pops out of nowhere, takes Okabe to the past, then back and it disappears. D-Mails also exist in the recepient's inbox after timeline shifts, though on the new timelines nobody sent them.

>I think the time machine still exists in the s;g timeline, it just pops out of nowhere, takes Okabe to the past, then back and it disappears. D-Mails also exist in the recepient's inbox after timeline shifts, though on the new timelines nobody sent them.
No that couldn't be. Remember the jump Suzuha made back to the future after the second attempt was the last one the fuel would allow and Okabe literally saw the timemachine dissolving from the inside. It would have been ironic if Okabe instead of arriving in the Steins;Gate timeline would have been stuck in the event horizon of a Kerr Black Hole instead.

You know the one, that one.

Amadeus a cute, but she's essentially just Kurisu.

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I don't think you can make perfect sense out of it, but I see the "timemachine dissolving from the inside" as a rather poor thought, convenient way of just saying something like: Okabe returned and the machine disappeared at the same moment. The first travel has the same problem, as you said, the timeline slightly changes so again you could argue that there should be another Okabe and Suzuha there when they return and there should be the same disappearance phenomenon.
Anyway, in the steins gate timeline, Kurisu knows about Okabe saving her, so the time machine and Okabe's travel have to exist for that to happen. The timeline doesn't make sense without the time machine poping out of nowhere, just as the rest of the timeline don't make sense without dmails popping out of nowhere.

>Kurisu knows about Okabe saving her
That's just her own Reading Steiner kicking in. The end of the OG (and several parts of 0 I already read through) suggest that many people have Reading Steiner, but only Okabe got it to the extent that his whole consciousness gets maintained and overwrites the new timelines' while for others it appears more like Deja-vus or dreams.

WHICH ONE

sorry I am mildly autistic

Ahem, MAHO A SHIT. JEALOUS ASS STINKY BITCH.

Shut the fuck up. Maho is precious.

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>ywn have a Kurisu gf

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