What was it about Kowaru that made Shinji fall in love with him instead of Asuka of Rei?

It's because he's fucking beautiful. I'm straight, but I'd let him give me his grace anytime.

Probably due to being supportive, understanding and being able to hold a conversation.

What is it that made Shinji fall in love with anyone except Misato or Ritsuko?

>asuka: I hate you, you suck, nigger
>rei: ....
>kaworu: I love you, *pats your head*

yee I wonder why shinji fell for kaworu and not the other girls

>What was it about Kowaru that made Shinji fall in love with him
stop this meme pls

no homo tho

The fact that he wasnt abusive, activily cared about him, and wasnt emotionless

Attached: f799e6f6d5b7bd3f778f68e8a3477938.jpg (250x250, 23K)

Anno himself confirmed that Kowaru was written to serve as Shinji's love interest

no he didnt

I thought he was written to be the intentionally created to take Shinji’s interest instantly so it can lead to more suffering for the next half of the episode?

>Anno himself confirmed that...
>Taking Anno seriously
are you retarded?

He was the only one who showed shinji affection and genuine “love”. Shinji would have said he loved anyone, girl or boy, if it meant they genuinely cared for him.

Shinji just wants love.

Asuka was abusive, and Rei is emotionless.

Kaworu made shinji feel needed.

is anno the jk rowling of animu?

>In 1 episode and then dies
>Is now somehow some big catalyst to all of shinji’s feelings and motivation
The rebuilds are what made Kowaru into some bigger thing. The show treated him like just another angel.

He was the only person being nice to Shinji.

>What was it about Kowaru that made Shinji fall in love with him instead of Asuka of Rei?
The fact that he's a male.

He jerked off to Asuka.

maybe his mind was on kaworu

He jerked off to her flat, boyish chest.

Yes, just look at the Rebuilds.

gee

He only liked Shinji as he was worthy of his grace

Confused gay teen trying to assert his straightness.

You can like both

Not if you're as much of a fag as Shinji.

If Shinji liked Kaworu so much, why didn't he kiss him the way he kissed Asuka and Misato?

That's just a myth

Bisexual men are always the bigger fag in a gay relationship

Because you don't treat your pure love like those cheap sluts.

>since humanity in eva universe is a mistake that shouldn't have happened.
The mistake was 2 moons hitting one planet, humans were always meant to happen.

the "I like you" part. It's literally the first time in Shinji's life that anyone said that to him.

The point of Kaworu was not a love interest; but to act as a comparison to Gendo.
The whole betray me aspect.

but viewers say "he's gay ...lol..." missing the point entirely\

its grating

Attached: 1481172897506.png (637x477, 610K)

>i like you
It's "i love you" netflix shitter

"skeet"

boy o boy. in a srs way we are gonna get soo many translation threads now. If they even exist on Yea Forums anymore

girls can but guys can't.

Attached: 1519758915700.jpg (1440x9193, 2.5M)

Why are you like this?

Wasn't that just Kowaru's job? If a spy/assassin is a fucking cunt, no one will let their guard down around them.

Instrumentality's just a metaphor for a socialist utopia. It's not worth losing your individuality just so you can feel comfortable with everyone. You need to be stronger than that.

experience.
if a guy says he's bi he is just gay or trying to be edgy lol.

Days later and I still laugh at these

skeet means like and love user. Learn some basic Japanese

He didn’t. He just liked being liked. It could have been anyone.

It's because Kaworu is genderless

Attached: 1481172674947.png (603x407, 130K)

He's kind, beautiful, has a seductive soft voice, and he plays piano

How can thots and whores even compete

Attached: 1499211833601.jpg (1378x2039, 352K)

Inaccurate translatiom.

You ever think that anecdotal evidence doesn't count?

>tfw Misato is literally the only person who sticks with Shinji even to the bitter end

I love the relationship between those two. It's so important, everything else in the show revolves around it.

Attached: a93faa8096c1df58dd8cc5fecb8b214b--neon-genesis-evangelion-purpose.jpg (600x324, 44K)

>The fact that he wasnt abusive,
Neither was Rei
>activily cared about him
I wouldn't say actively, he was just a nice guy.
>and wasnt emotionless
A small step up from Rei, but not a huge difference.

Attached: 1561394743793.jpg (2700x1496, 520K)

If you read the drafts, Kaworu was written as a parallel to Kaji for Misato so Shinji could learn what it feels like to have someone you love die

This is also why Kaji and Kaworu act so similar in mannerisms

Attached: Nagisa Kaworu.jpg (1080x1160, 209K)

Attached: 1520397839077.png (704x528, 370K)

Well Shinji and Misato are the two main protagonists, after all.
It really is about their story.

kaworu was to act as a comparison to gendo

Inaccurate and irrelevant out of show content.

okay
There isn't any empirical evidence that male bisexuality exists.

thats not a draft but a fan discussion forum

Because he got him at his most emotionally vulnerable point after literally everything else fell apart on him.

In a sense yes, just like rei with shinji's mom
Kaworu and Rei are a father and mother to Shinji while also being a father and mother to their own races (Angels and Lilin)

But Kaworu and his relationship with Shinji also share similarities to Kaji and his relationship with Misato. This is directly stated in the first draft, so Shinji can better understand what Misato's going through by going through it himself.
This is also why Misato is so harsh to Shinji at the end of the episode about Kaworu's death. She's projecting her own anger and hurt at Kaji leaving her.

Attached: 03746039476.jpg (704x480, 108K)

Shinji literally says that kaworu is the only person to say that he liked him.

Misato said nothing in responce cuz she didnt say that. instead offered herself.

atpic related

This. They even flashback to it in EoE

Attached: hands.gif (492x662, 121K)

most ppl gloss over this fact. You get 2 character dynamics at once.

including misato's love misunderstanding problem

ASUKA instrumentality screen time: 46:21 (forty-six minutes and twenty-one seconds)
KAWORU instrumentality screen time: 00:07 (seven seconds)

>ASUKA [to SHINJI]: If I can't have all of you, I don't want anything from you.
(EoE)
-
>SHINJI [to ASUKA]: I want to help you. I want to be with you forever.
(EoE)
-

>ASUKA [to SHINJI]: (quietly) Do you love me? (...) Do you really love me?
(see youtube.com/watch?v=PcXGgjyV4WA)
-
>SHINJI: No one needs me, so they should all die.
>ASUKA [to SHINJI]: I need you.
(see boards.fireden.net/a/thread/174627893/#174638241)
-
(lyrics)
>Did she promise you the world and did that
>>>Girl just throw your love away
>Leave you like a lonely solitaire
>With just despair for company
>Do you think you'd find revenge so sweet
>Make it so you hearts will never beat
>Squeeze the very last and dying breath from
>Everything you've ever dreamed
("Everything You've Ever Dreamed", author: Hideaki Anno)

Meanwhile, on the losing side of history:

>KAWORU [to SHINJI]: I don't love you "that way".
(EoE)
-

>KAWORU [to SHINJI]: I'm sorry... I don't feel that way about you.
(draft)
wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:Episode_24_Draft_1_(Translation)

Attached: that way 2.jpg (1920x1080, 906K)

Kaworu is incredibly boring and doesn't belong in Evangelion.
He is a character who has nothing wrong with him. In fact, he's an impossibly perfect character, a genuine Gary Stu. The only person he could ever appeal to is a chronic normalfaggot.

He shows up for one episode and you still managed to not understand him

In the episode Shinji says Kaworu is the same as him, do you think Shinji is a gary stu as well?

Attached: Suicidal.png (1014x1542, 1.81M)

Reminder that Kaworu killed 3 billion people and is responsible for all of the suffering of the Eva cast, including Shinji's.

>In the episode Shinji says Kaworu is the same as him
That's called Shinji projecting on the only person who was nice to him. Kaworu is a fucking alien god, of course they're not the same.

Imagine being so insecure about your ship you have to spam the same posts over and over whenever Kaworu is mentioned
Which means you admit the very existence of Kaworu threatens your ship.

Attached: 1485849516990.png (250x219, 60K)

You're a retard screaming that 2+2 equals 10 and you're getting corrected that it equals 4. You are delusional.

Here, for example: Kaworu is not even homosexual, per this dialogue written by Anno. He likely has no sexuality whatsoever.

Attached: homo boy.jpg (1284x428, 308K)

Do you think either Shinji or Misato manage to overcome their troubles, in the end? Like when Misato sacrifices herself for Shinji, or when Shinji's in the midst of Instrumentality? Or do they end the series no more capable of connecting with people than they were at the start?

Attached: jToiX0U.jpg (1920x1080, 119K)

Being an alien god is irrelevant when even the episode showcases he has his own set of flaws

Plus Rei says he was human in the next episode

Also Kensuke and Toji were nice to him but Shinji never projected on them or thought he was stimilar to them.
Shinji outright says Kaworu was like him regardless of him being an angel.

>even the episode showcases he has his own set of flaws
Could you list them?

You're seething so hard you assumed that I ever claimed he was homosexual.
You say Kaworu doesn't belong in Evangelion because he threatens your ship and makes you feel uncomfortable.

Eva is about facing the uncomfortable, it's not a safe space like your ebin harem animes. Stop hiding from reality user, this is what Eva tells you to do.

Shinji mind dived with a Rule 63 version of himself, I think it's safe to assume he's different afterwards.

>I ever claimed he was homosexual.

Then what are you arguing with me about? My posts say that Kaworu is not gay and Kawoshin is not factually correct. These two things are objectively true if you know even a little about Evangelion. What are you replying to me for?

His complete disregard for his own life is the biggest one.
How can you watch the episode and miss such a glaring flaw? Misato herself points it out at the end.

Attached: 948.jpg (500x724, 259K)

That's not a flaw you fucking retard, that's another Gary Stu strength: "Kaworu is so selfless that he would rather kill himself than let the protagonist die!!"

You responded to me first in a deranged frenzy. Maybe trying actual reading the posts you reply to and stop getting triggered over Kaworu.

Attached: 24108.jpg (480x640, 79K)

He never said thay

not me btw

shinji definitely did. Misato no.

Also for those that think we are calling bullshit about the Gendo Kaworu comparison gif related

Attached: 97960e9310afdc7bfb56a7bc8253e12d152c9ed7_hq.gif (500x374, 985K)

Shinji learned to love himself, he took the most important first step.

Even when Misato died protecting Shinji she was still manipulating him, I don't think she'll ever change.

>You responded to me first
No, you replied to me here , you just didn't quote me. Are you retarded?

He was the hedgehog who decided it was worth getting close to another hedgehog. For Shinji, he was the first person to do that.

Attached: 1542246898682.jpg (1200x883, 113K)

Definitely not when Misato frames it as a bad thing.
He straight up says he doesn't care whether he lives or dies, he sees no value in living. That's not portrayed as selfless, that's portrayed as being incredibly pessimistic about life and outright suicidal.

Attached: 00h37m48s686.png (1440x1080, 1.52M)

>He was the hedgehog
Kaworu is not a hedgehog, there's nothing wrong with him.

Were the previous Angels 14 years old, too, Yea Forums? Sachiel, Ramiel, etc?

No, it means he's a literal immortal god who has died several times before already. He knows about souls and he knows about instrumentality.

It's true though. Kaworu's very existence infuriates you for shipping reasons, despite whether they're canon or not.
You try to cover it up with some bullshit like >durr he doesn't belong in Eva!!!
but we all know that's a farce.

btw
>shinji definitely did. Misato no.

gif related

Attached: 1474365866440.gif (500x282, 930K)

He was the only person to show Shinji unconditional emotional support
and was a hot piece of ass to boot

Of course he belongs in Eva because Anno put him in the fucking anime and films.

no they existed in the earth along with adam for a long time

You mean guys who fuck both women and men, who exist in fairly large quantities and can also be found on pornsites creating visual evidence you can see with your eyes?

Can you explain what your post has to do with my post? I appreciate your deep psychic analysis of me as a person, but how is that relevant to what I've posted? Kawoshin is factually, objectively untrue () and Kaworu is not even gay (or sexual whatsoever )

>it means he's a literal immortal god who has died several times before already
Yes, and? That doesn't disregard anything in my post.
The fact that he doesn't care about his life is framed as a bad thing by Misato, a bad thing for Shinji because it emotionally affects him, and a flaw for Kaworu that continues to follow him through later iterations.

That's what Shinji fucking does for the entire series.

So I'm not a pedo? Thank you.

I don't give a shit about this ambiguous Misato line you keep talking about but never quoting. Kaworu is a Gary Stu, he is a flawless character in a series of horrifically flawed characters. You are a genuine Grade A normalfaggot if you chose Kaworu to obsess over.

No need to analyze, when you've made the same exact post 100+ times based on a look at the archive I know you've got an obsession with Kaworu. No one comes to be obsessed with an Anime character to this degree for no reason.

Attached: tumblr_n29d8nlnoK1s3x41po3_r1_250.gif (245x230, 506K)

I guess you give up. Just let me know when you have an argument for anything I've said.

>kaworu fans are just one person
not even that guy, just wanted to let you know that you're schizo

He is not a god; he's adam just as rei is to lilith

Don't bully me, Marifag. I just like hentai of human Angels

If you can't even remember what happens in the episode I don't think you're ready for a discussion on Eva's characters.
Maybe you should rewatch and then come back, user.

Attached: misato.png (1253x1905, 1.96M)

>He is not a god; he's adam just as rei is to lilith

Yes, and they're FAR seeds (gods of their respective species)

He's not a kaworu fan.
He claims to hate him, but it just comes off as being obsessed with him.

Mari fag here; you done want to know what i've seen

Attached: Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_785.jpg (500x409, 33K)

kaworu was pure

Misato is just waxing emo about her father there. I don't understand why this line is important to you, or why you thought it influenced the audience's perception of Kaworu. Kaworu went out as a "selfless hero" who sacrificed himself for Shinji and humanity as a whole. AKA: more Gary Stu shit.

Remember the message of Eva is to face reality, not to cling onto fantasy.
Your behavior on Yea Forums seems to lean towards the latter.

Attached: Anno and Ikuhara.png (650x804, 863K)

Angel cunny

honestly wasn't even reading the thread properly and replied to the wrong guy.
haha baby brain had babby's first anime go over his head

Attached: 1458419831846.jpg (500x379, 28K)

You are that homosexual guy who spends like 14 hours a day on Yea Forums searching for validation for your mental illness in Evangelion. I think you need to look in the mirror.

how can i know which one is reality?

This faggot thing where they assume all straight people are secretly fags is the biggest projection cope Ive ever seen in my life.

No they are "God" if they combined into the abomination; separated they are nephilim and can turn into stone should God demand it.

Attached: W4GAVv2.png (1920x1080, 1.59M)

The fact that
A. Shinji was at his lowest up to that point
B. Kowaru flat said he loved him, and Shinji latched onto it like a drowning man.

At that time Shinji would have jumped at anyone said they loved him, not just Kowaru.

OK, I understand, you don't know anything about Evangelion. I'll stop replying now.

>At that time Shinji would have jumped at anyone said they loved him, not just Kowaru.
this and Kaworu knew it.

Shinji-kun is cute.

He wasn't a total bitch or a clone of Shinji's mother.

Kaworu also deliberately misled him. He knew what he was saying.

coming to think about it
>shinji
>damaged kid
>father is absent
>girls have better shit to do
>guy shows up
>says he loves him
>is betrayed
>gets mindfucked
Is Anno basically saying that fags are mentally unstable?

Im not talking about the damn sega games user. Who cares for that crap.

Anyways in the sega game it said that the closest thing to the FAR is a combination of an adam and lilith. (black and white moons/eggs)

>Misato is just waxing emo about her father there
Maybe. I see it as her also projecting her lingering anger over Kaji.

>why you thought it influenced the audience's perception of Kaworu
Because it blatantly paints Kaworu's thought process as wrong?
A gary stu would have seen through SEELE's plan, in the first place. Kaworu gets completely duped by them by heading down to dogma.
So not only is he extremely naive, he doesn't even value himself enough to care that he's about to get his head snapped off.

Eva is about living on and surviving, Kaworu does the opposite and gives up - it's not portrayed as a good thing.

>that pic
as a kaworu fan this is heartbreaking. sigh...

I pop into Eva threads every once in a while, not even posting most of the time.
You on the other hand, have posted the exact same set of posts over 100+ times in these threads according to the archive, take your own advice. You're insane.

he was pure, shinji was trying to corrupt him with his faggy fantasies

Attached: Kaworu and Shinji bathing.jpg (1437x1079, 238K)

My man just wanted to hold hands with his friends but Shinji had to go fag it up by getting scared

Attached: 1458208929303.gif (498x340, 998K)

I personally never took Kowaru's confession as romantic in nature, but I can see why others would and why the merchandise pushed it so hard for those that did. I always saw it as a christ like love for another life in general. I figured Shinji just ran with it because he was desperate at the time. Shinji obviously didnt love himself enough to truly love someone else even if that person said they "loved" him.

But thats just me.

Attached: 1352923049185.jpg (2262x3199, 2.5M)

Could you post the archive link? There's no way you could be fibbing is there?

He's not a transphobic bigot

Attached: tranny shinji.png (901x896, 855K)

>instrumentality is a metaphor for a socialist utopia....
That seems pretty incongruent, I don't think it's a methaphor for anything more so just the suffering caused by people's relationships, be it by understanding or lack of understanding.

Attached: ssssssssssKYAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.png (640x464, 262K)

Does anybody except for Shinji actually learn or change at all? Everybody talks about Asuka changing, but I don't see it, I think she just exchanges one delusion for another. Shinji seems to be the only person in the show who's actually changed significantly from the first episode to the end of EOE.

Attached: sample-36973fc0f55c3686edb437e87f4f2a7e.jpg (850x850, 127K)

>Shinji obviously didnt love himself enough to truly love someone else
This is the biggest dumb normalfaggot cliche I've ever seen. I'm so tired of seeing it everywhere. It's meaningless pseudo-profound tapioca pudding that you would hear recited at a self-help group or some bullshit.

Then counter it

>Everybody talks about Asuka changing, but I don't see it
Asuka's entire character in episodes 8-26 can be summed up as "I don't need anyone else! Not mama, not Shinji, not anyone, I swear!"

By the end she finally admits that she does. So yes, she changed.

Attached: SEETHING.jpg (969x1615, 917K)

Kaworu just wanted to talk about life and philosophy but Shinji just kept blushing at him and making the scene way faggier than it needed to be

Attached: Blushing shinji.jpg (640x512, 17K)

>an angelic being who chooses self sacrifice is a Gary Stu
thought this was an B& the first time I read it but now I'm pretty confident your serious and retarded

Attached: are you serious.jpg (1442x1076, 238K)

The females were cunts to him while Kaworu was loving from the start.

Love is an instinctual feeling that exists to create bonded pairs and assist in reproduction. There is no chore you have to do to be capable of it. Just being born is enough.

>try to talk to your bro after a post-mecha training sesh
>he starts blushing and arching his back
wtf is wrong with Shinji?

Attached: 1460651605969.jpg (1520x2167, 538K)

We never see this so-called development though. We never see what Asuka is going through in EoE as herself, she's offscreen.
Unlike Misato and Shinji who we clearly see develop and flesh out.

^this...

upboat

Attached: good man.png (532x398, 367K)

>We never see this so-called development though.

Yes you did? Even if you didn't notice the picrelated there is plainly visible development even on your first watching. Pre-instrumentality Asuka would have never stroked the face of someone choking her.

He straight up waited for Kaworu after his test like a creepy stalker.

Attached: He waited here for 5 hours.jpg (708x540, 38K)

Anno devoted one single episode of budget to "We need the faggots' money" and it worked better than he could have ever imagined

The point is we never see HOW she changed from the beginning to the end, because she's offscreen for the entire movie after her death.
With Shinji and Misato we clearly see how they developed from point a to point b. With Asuka there's no such thing.

Look at this walk, nigga gay

Attached: 1459987377087.gif (500x374, 659K)

You're imagining things.

Attached: Shinji's curves.png (1440x1080, 2.18M)

How can form relationships with others if your own sense of self-worth is so low that you can't even conceive of being desirable to someone else?

He devoted one episode to his crush on Ikuhara which creeped the dude out and he never talked to anno ever again

Episode 24 was a mistake

Attached: Anno and his Ex.jpg (640x480, 28K)

Imagine being such a brainlet you missed the entire point of Kaworu and think it was homosexual. Glad you fags got BTFO by Netflix.

Yeah, Shinji does come across as a bit faggy, I'm not going to deny it. You can picture him moaning girlishly as Kaworu shoves his dick up his ass.

Asuka has the second most screen time in instrumentality next to Shinji. She doesn't get an easily digestible case-by-case analysis of her problems like she did in the TV ending, but we see her and Shinji tangling and confronting each other and their issues are all in there blended together.

If you really try to decipher their dialogue in "pre-instrumentality" you'll understand more about their characters. Everything they say in these scenes has a meaning.

Attached: understand.webm (1280x720, 2.92M)

But there are different kinds of love, he'd not experienced much of any kind by then. Yeah he cared about him, a lot, but for him to claim he loves this guy he just met after being in the mental state he's in comes off as weak at best. I think he could have gotten there given time(as with any of the others), but the him of that particular time was miserable and was just reaching for anything to make him feel better about himself.

I would have liked the character a lot more if he wasn't so effeminate. I guess he is 14 tho.

You're projecting. There's nothing gay about this.

Attached: soa36034673.jpg (537x720, 70K)

He liked Shinji, no strings attached.

I'm not arguing with you about the characters (I think Shinji was just addicted to the strings-free affection Kaworu gave him), just the retarded 'can't love if you dont love yourself!" platitude

That’s on you, dude. Shinji is only shown to be 100% straight.

Luckily, shows like Zeta Gundam have real /m/en

Attached: autistic girl.jpg (960x720, 91K)

asukafag arguments
>"Look at this scene from the show"
>"Look at this one as well
>"And this song written by anno"
>"And this title screen in the show here"

kaworufag arguments
>"look at this ad"
>"look at this tiffany grant interview"

Yep. Or MASSIVE projection into a scene with minimal homosexual subtext.

Nah, that actually goes to Misato.
Also it's not really Asuka in a majority of those scenes. It's Shinji's image of Asuka.

This isn't even actual Eva merch, it's fanart printed out and made to look like an ad. Lol.

>this is how Asuka treats Shinji across the entire show
>people are shocked, shocked, that Shinji wants to strangle her

Attached: 1515345114079.jpg (700x400, 52K)

every time kaworufags post the scene where shinji blushes at kaworu, i should post the one where kaji makes a sexual joke at shinji and he blushes

both of these scenes are clear, deliberate fujo/faggot bait for money, but they actually think it's real lore stuff and shinji is totes gay

I don't think anyone was seriously arguing with you, they were just laughing at how mad you get whenever Kaworu is mentioned

Attached: eva199.jpg (542x765, 129K)

>a shy boy blushes at direct acknowledgment from someone he respects

HOLY SHIT MY ASS IS LITERALLY A PENIS RIGHT NOW

Yeah that would really help your argument that Shinji ain't a fag

Not him but I think it has some merit. If a given person hates themself then I imagine they wouldn't be able to trust the positive feelings someone might have for them. Like "I'm trash, why would this person like me at all, this cant be legit?"

How did this boy get such nice curves?

Go through the Montage during her mind rape in EP22'. If you go through the Montage frame by frame it paints a clear picture of this realization of hers, whole also visually showing what she actually wanted.

Warning: you have to not be a brainlet to understand the visual composition and meaning

That was one of the best comedies Id ever seen, right up there with Cross Ange

>Prove Shinji’s innocence
Not how it works. YOU have to prove he IS a fag. You have nothing but projection and mistranslated out of show interviews.

We have EXPLICIT heterosexuality towards every main EVA girl, none for Kaworu.

She's saying something nice to him there in a roundabout way.

Don't look at any one of the lines independently, look at them in relation to each other and in relation to the flashbacks on the screen. It's instrumentality, they're communicating at the speed of thought. They have ethernet plugged into each others' minds.

At the start of the scene Shinji accuses Asuka of hiding herself from him, so he has no way to understand her. Asuka replies that Shinji masturbated to her without her knowing, so he did exactly the same thing (hiding his feelings.) She finishes with "If I can't have all of you, I don't want any part whatsoever." The line is very exact, what she's saying is that she doesn't want him to hide any aspect of himself out of shame.

To be fair, you need at least a 300 level IQ to understand Eva.

Attached: 1411045830719.jpg (600x1066, 201K)

>look at this tiffany grant interview
My one and only time at a con had me dealing with this fujo who threw this and some other stuff at claiming that they were always meant to be gay. Never again, fujos are legit aliens.

You only say they're mistranslated because they disprove your headcanons about Eva.

Pic related you have Anno saying that Kaworu was the kind a person Shinji couldn't help but love.

Attached: someone loved by anyone.jpg (500x579, 73K)

"If you don't love yourself you can't trust that others love you" is completely different from "If you don't love yourself you can't love others"

You can love someone completely regardless of how they feel about you, real or perceived

Now post the source, the original Japanese and the person translating.

Even then it’s out of show content, thus irrelevant.

You’re the one with the headcanon, my understanding of Evangelion only concerns the facts.

When did he ever want to fuck Ritsuko? No but really I'm just messing with you bro, why are you getting so worked up over what fat japanese girls think about the show?

Attached: did she die.gif (498x217, 888K)

That's true, but those scenes ARE all from the show. People wonder why it's not a slam-dunk case that Shinji and Asuka wind up together, and they fail to take into account the fact that Asuka spends the entire show being a huge cunt to Shinji. If Eva is supposed to be a "realistic" anime about real people, it's important to note that IRL a tsundere type girl would end up a bitter old hag who never marries because she'd drive away every man in her life. And Asuka's not even a tsundere, she's a hateful nutjob who's been fucked in the head since she was a kid. Nobody actually wants to date someone like that, not when there are genuinely pleasant people out there.

Attached: Evangelion+is+like+the+evangelion+of+evangelions+_f22a30b6233b0e801a93042e33e19fa2.jpg (720x480, 32K)

>implying Shinji/Kowaru isn't delusional yaoi faggirl shit.

>Asuka replies that Shinji masturbated to her without her knowing, so he did exactly the same thing (hiding his feelings.)
Also, to make her point, literally says 'Jerk off in front of me, I don't care"

People think this is a taunt and she's angry at him, but she actually means it

Because retards don’t deserve an inch, lest they breed more. Kaworufags are not welcome in serious discussion.

best girl (male)

>retards don’t deserve an inch
>posting this in an eva thread

Attached: 1459273145578.jpg (776x600, 77K)

Fixed subs

Attached: EvaTranslation.jpg (1178x1971, 746K)

I honestly never cared about kawoshin before this kaworu spammer guy started ruining every single Eva thread, including ones that had nothing to do with Kaworu. He would go into Asuka threads and literally make hundreds of posts of retarded spam. Now he plays victim when people scienced kawoshin out of the lore. It's weird as hell.

The kaworu spammer cries out in pain as it strikes you

>hurr we’re ALL retarded so every viewpoint is valid
Nope.

Based ADV!

You would do the same if there was an interview of Anno saying the same thing about Asuka and Shinji's relationship.
Unfortunately for you there's no such thing, as he's only ever talking about Shinji and Kaworu's relationship in interviews.

You can't just claim Anno's words are irrelevant and then spam lyrics for a song that wasn't even used in the movie and was based on a poem that Anno wrote, not directly written by him himself.

Attached: groundworks.png (1002x712, 1.04M)

Could Asuka's chin in 3.0 cut an AT field?

Attached: hold me closer magma diver.png (1920x814, 2.67M)

Anno directly wrote (not in an interview, but in the series, and in its songs) that Shinji and Asuka love each other. Man, it feels good to be right.

No, dealing with retards is part and parcel of talking about evangelion online. I'm happy for you though, you've somehow missed the masses of normalfaggots that claim evangelion is the first and bestest anime evar.

Attached: hi.jpg (640x480, 45K)

This.
People like to flaunt how realistic Asuka is but immediately hide behind the >s-she's just an anime tsundere!
defense once you try to equate her to reality.

>hurr LCL means the pilots don't physically age

This is the most disgusting thing I've ever encountered, and proof that Anno has sold his soul in the name of selling merch. If Anno really still cared about Eva as a work of art he would have given us grown-up Asuka. Fuck, keep Shinji and Rei the same age, because they've been in the LCL all that time. But age Asuka up, for God's sake. But of course he didn't do that, because twentysomething Asuka would be less marketable than 14-year-old Asuka.

Attached: 1XdoAQF.png (956x453, 298K)

>you would do the same
Nope. Don’t project. I would focus on the show, as is always intended. When did I ever imply I ship Asuka and Shinji by the way? Sure they have sexual tension and chemistry (unlike Kaworu and Shinji) but that has no bearing on my opinion on how absolutely brainlet-tier coming away from episode 24 that Shinji is gay is.

>I don't love you "that way."
>KAWORU: (interrupting him) I'm sorry, I don't feel that way about you.

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
KAWORUBROS
NOOO

I wasn't really seeing it from that perspective. I was working based on if you cant truly trust the person you couldn't give enough of yourself to love them. Maybe Im overthinking it or thinking from the wrong angle, but I'll let it rest for now.

>normalfag opinion
>imgur filename
>click the imgur 4chanx link
>it's from reddit anime board
Kill yourself

I've been in a good chunk of Eva threads since the 3.0 camrip, I've never seen a Kaworu spammer. Care to provide evidence?

>he's a hateful nutjob who's been fucked in the head since she was a kid
Remember kids, dont stick your dick in crazy

Who in this thread has said that besides you?
Why did you reply to yourself, by the way?

Realism is a spectrum. You aren’t suddenly perfectly logical or perfectly illogical. Asuka is called realistic because she’s more on the realistic side of the spectrum, that doesn’t mean she still isn’t a romanticized ideal of a person like almost any fiction worth its salt.

Kaworu loves Shinji like God loves all of mankind.

Shinji is the only horny faggot who doesn't get it.

>not in an interview, but in the series, and in its songs
You have yet to provide evidence for this.
Nowhere in the series do they say they love each other and no song used in the series says the same thing.
Everything you've ever dreamed's lyrics are based on Anno's original poem, but not written by Anno himself. Regardless they don't even say it either.

Just search "kaworu spammer" on fireden

Shinji couldn't beat the cock

Imagine having this little empathy. Imagine completely losing your protective instinct because you hate women.

That's the point. She's a representation OF reality which is why Anno puts them together at the end. Rei and Kaworu represent Instrumentality, basically pure unconditional love with little to no strings attached. That's why Shonji HAS to choose Asuka, she represents reality. She is flawed and causes pain to Shonji as a result of her own individuality, but both of them realize that it's better to live in reality than in the orgy soup of LCL along with all of the pain and happiness it brings.

>You have yet to provide evidence for this.
Wrong. See Address each point specifically or accept your default loss like you always have.

>the "I like you" part. It's literally the first time in Shinji's life that anyone said that to him.
What kind of fucked up version of japan do they live on?

nice cop out, bitch.

I did, and all I found were your posts talking about him. I have yet to see any evidence that this guy exists.

You got it half right, Shinji never shows sexual attraction to Kaworu, unlike his attraction to Rei, Misato and Asuka.

Newfag or Kaworufag.

>Shinji is the only horny faggot who doesn't get it.
This. Kaworu is straight and pure and Shinji's actions made it gay.

I'm right and you don't want to admit it. Fuck, imagine the end of 3.0 with all three of them wandering across the hellscape, only now Asuka's an adult who has to take care of two teenagers. It would be really interesting because we'd have gone full circle, from Asuka who needs everything done for her to Asuka who's forced, by virtue of literally being older than the other two, to be the adult, the mother figure, in a time of crisis. It would be neat and it's the sort of thing I would want Eva to do.

i thought kaworu was meant to personify the thing shinji wished he would be

>She's a representation OF reality
How?!
Asuka spends THE ENTIRE SERIES running away from reality. She can't deal with her past, she can't deal with herself, and she can't deal with others.
She literally sits at home and plays video games all day in the end of the series because she can't face reality and breaks down.

She's as far away from being a representation of reality as you can get.

>Kaworu loves Shinji like God loves all of mankind.

I don't think God loves humanity.

Attached: Moses_genocide_women_children-320x207.jpg (320x207, 27K)

Here you go
boards.fireden.net/a/thread/171819079/#171830351

He used to make batshit insane spam posts 24/7 in Eva threads. His favorites were

1) " is for cuckolds!" and/or false flagging as fans of that character and making cuckolding posts
2) false-flag /pol/ spam ("Asuka is for refugee niggers!" etc x100) - I assume this is because he's gay and hates /pol/?

I remember several Eva threads where he would get banned and dozens, sometimes hundreds, of these posts would instantly disappear. His phone got rangebanned so now he just quietly posts about Kaworu. He's the guy who's always posting those Kaworu ads, the interview of Tiffany Grant saying Kawoshin is best, etc.

Why is it that ppl dont like that? Kaworu literally was saying that Shinji was a fragile piece of glass.

I say he tried to sway the last remaining Eva pilot into not killing/stopping him when he tried to get to lillith; killing off all lillin (humanity) and replacing them with adam-lineage.

Shinji literally said kaworu betrayed him @

This is ACK-tier autism, I don't think those are all one user dude.

I'm a Misatofag, but after spending years in Eva threads I've noticed that Asukafags tend to have the best grasp of the show, and Kaworufags the worst. Reifags are somewhere in between, with some having a great understanding, and others being completely delusional autists.

They definitely are, you'll have to take my word for it if you're new to Eva threads. Every time the spam posts would get purged in a "delete all posts from this user" ban, kawoshin interview posts would get deleted with them.

Yeah that's the point of the show. The two show attraction towards each other throughout the airing of the series, but are both too mentally fucked and traumatized to actually express their feelings or give the other true emotional support.

I always saw EoE and EOTV as the two of them learning from their past mistakes and learning to accept themselves, and as a result now they are able to accept one another, as symbolized by the "one more: I need you" and face caress. Obviously it's ambiguous as to what happens afterward but it always left me with the feeling the two are now on the road to recovery and can actually support one another emotionally now instead of just being selfish and using one another for emotional support with nothing to give in return.

Attached: 1436932059270.jpg (600x274, 76K)

gotta ask; whats ACK?

Newfags get out.

Because she acts like a real human being with real flaws and trauma that she has a hard time overcoming as opposed to the obedient idealized Rei and Kaworu. I don't think you read my post.

So you think only one person on the entirety of Yea Forums is insulting your waifu asuka? I'm pretty sure there are more than one person that don't like her and shitpost in eva threads.

Attached: 1472935473532.jpg (540x581, 52K)

Eva threads used to be quite slow, it was easy to identify most posters in them.

Why did anno ruin eva for us gays.
Why.
Why couldnt we have this, just this one thing for us
He had to take it from us.

So do Shinji, Misato, and Ritsuko

Difference is Asuka actively avoids reality and runs away from it. She doesn't represent it at all.

boards.fireden.net/a/search/image/U09RMQLFQVUbGUsvQwIieQ==/page/1/

this.

keep in mind that in /c/ for the Rei and Asuka threads; its the same 60 posters for a while now; its gotten to the point that they made separate discord servers.

I don't think shinji is gay, he seems more bisexual or bicurious

boards.fireden.net/a/thread/169016010/#169038777

vintage kaworu spammer. boy is he subtle or what

Oh nononono hahahahahahahaha

You never had it, bucko. Just enjoy your non canon crackship.

Same shit. Shinji has absolutely no same sex attraction in the show. There is no evidence for it. Rei gets evidence, Asuka gets BOATLOADS, Misato gets some, Kaworu gets LITERALLY NOTHING.

So you think anyone that's ever said anything negative about asuka is this one guy?

boards.fireden.net/a/search/image/feg5R0ILLjIG2JcNGZROMQ/

more breathtaking kaworu spammer subtlety

I’m starting to think you’re the Kaworuspammer.

The glory days of Yea Forumsdrawthreads.

Attached: 1557360528282.jpg (450x600, 57K)

What do you consider a good indicator of sexual attraction?
We can tell Shinji is sexually attracted to Asuka when he blushes from her flaunting her boobs, from example.
Do you not consider Shinji blushing at Kaworu to be in a similar vein?

he does this every time someone posts the words "kaworu spammer" in an eva thread, it makes him sweat

Asuka did better than a 7-1, she 13-1'd SEELE's lackeys.

I'm starting to think you're ACK

Objectification from the perspective of the attractor. Shinji admires the breasts of Asuka, Rei and Misato. Kaworu gets no such attention for his chest or ass or anything else.

Shinji blushes because he is being directly addressed and complimented by someone he respects, not for any explicitly homosexual reason. The show does not portray Kaworu in a sexual light, unlike the girls.

Attached: 1510812385858.jpg (595x841, 437K)

Link me fanfics where kaworu gets absolutely btfo.

Here's a good one

nyaa.si/view/831686

Attached: 1545326964411.png (327x407, 791K)

I don't get the point you're trying to make. You're trying to say a mentally unstable 14 year old girl going through puberty, who's mother hung herself and a doll which her mother thought was her daughter, all the while completely failing to establish a deep relationship with another human being is unrealistic because she has flaws, fear and trouble dealing with other people. That is what MAKES her realistic, just as it makes Ritsuko, Misato and Shinji realistic.

She isn't an altruistic Mary Sue and has her own trauma she deals with in her own way. She represents pain, fear and frustration to Shinji, but also a light at the end if the tunnel as he realizes that all the suffering is part of the yin and yang of living life.

>Objectification from the perspective of the attractor.
I don't agree with this definition. If I'm sexually attracted to someone that means I'm automatically objectifying them? No way.

Shinji blushes at points where Kaworu is walking into the hallway and looking at him from his bed. If the creator's intention was to portray Shinji's feelings as those of strictly friendship and platonic, why include the blushing?
We only see him blush like that in sexual/romantic situations.

Attached: blush compilation.png (2000x1271, 2.34M)

I'm not saying Asuka isn't realistic, I'm saying she doesn't represent reality because she actively runs away from reality in the show.

If the point of EoE is for Shinji to stop running away from reality and accept it, then Asuka is the furthest away from that representation because she herself was running away from it more than anyone.

SEELE was going to end him anyway, might as well end your own life by the hands of someone you love instead of greedy jews.

It was clearly homobait, just like the kaji scene. It doesn't mean Shinji wants to fuck kaji. It's marketing.

>we only see him blush like that in sexual situations
Incorrect. See “toothpicks”

Once again, the show does not portray Kaworu as a sexual THING. Through the eyes of Shinji we see Misato, Rei and Asuka as sexual. Through Misato’s eyes we get Kaji being sexual, but nothing from Kaworu. The scene completely lacks the sexual tension of any other scene you could compare it to. You’re creating leaps in logic that no other relationship needs.

No, it doesn't mean Shinji wants to fuck Kaji. But the blushing is coming from a sexual situation.
Since it's the same blush being used in his scenes with Kaworu, this includes an element of sexuality.

>Through Misato’s eyes we get Kaji being sexual
Kaji being sexual in what way? There's no focus on his ass or body either, or do you mean because he makes sexual passes at Misato?

isnt there a rei and asuka pic that's in those exact positions

So when Shinji blushes at a girl it confirms his sexuality but when Shinji blushes at a boy it doesn't and it's just homobait?
Don't you think that's a bit biased?

Him tapping her leg, focus on his hands and lips. Rewatch Evangelion. Kaji is objectified like a woman would do it, no question.

Yeah I think both images were used in the flaps for the VHS tapes back in the day

Attached: Rei-Asuka (1).jpg (604x768, 56K)

The girls have more than blushing, and have explicitly sexual aspects to the scene where he blushes. Stop equating the two.

Is there anyone, ANYONE in Evangelion who comes even CLOSE to the powerlevel of Green Dress Asuka?

Attached: asuka tsunbathing.jpg (1440x1080, 886K)

Why would his feminine side offend you? He's just a kid and isn't doing anything wrong

Anyone else actually love Rei/Asuka shipping fanfics? They're my guilty pleasure, even by fanfiction standards. And I have this half-baked idea that Rei and Asuka lezzing out together would be weirdly fitting.

False.

It’s perfectly natural for a man to have contempt for another man being feminine, especially a man that has responsibility.

I just finished a complete watch this past weekend on Netflix, so it's still rather fresh in my mind.
I do not recall any focus on his hands and lips that could be considered objectifying/sexualizing, could you direct me to which episode that happens? I don't recall any fanservice shot for Kaji like the girls in the show got.
We know Misato is sexually attracted to him even early on in the series because she blushes when he arrives and then straight up lets him kiss her in the elevator.

The only thing more crack than Shinji and Kaworu. Literally ridiculous.

>fanservice shot for girls
You still don’t understand what I am saying. It’s not about fanservice, it’s about the show portraying characters as sexual beings within the viewpoint of other characters. Look at the scene where Misato sees Kaji for the first time again on the boat, and when he walks her home drunk. Now compare how he’s portrayed there to when he’s giving advice to Shinji on the melon patch.

Anno doesn’t use the camera as an objective observer but pushes it through the lens of the main character in the scene. This is why Kaworu X Shinji makes no sense. We get an angelic feeling from how Kaworu is portrayed, not a sexual one.

I must equate them because that's what blushing signifies in the show.
Shinji blushes like that when he's embarrassed or in a sexual situation.
He blushes at Asuka in a swimsuit, and we can see that blush evidences his sexual attraction to her.

In the case with Kaworu, Shinji blushes at him when he walks through the door or is talking to him. There's no instance of him being embarrassed here, so I can only assume it's the latter and Shinji is just attracted to Kaworu.

You’re looking too much at Shinji and not enough at the situation and what is done with the object of his attention.

Kaworu is given no moment to be sexual. It’s purely attention based.

I don't know if you know this but angels have been sexualized since the book of Genesis

You just told me that there's focus on Kaji's hands and lips. There's no such thing in the show from what I remember.
There's no shot of him being objectified like you claimed must be the criteria for sexual attraction.
Yet we know Misato is sexually attracted to him because she gets embarrassed around him and lets him kiss her.
He doesn't have to be portrayed as sexualized in order for us to understand that.

Likewise despite what feeling you yourself get from Kaworu, Shinji's blushing at him automatically presents him in a sexual light.

You’re missing the fact that all Kaworu has is a blush and all the girl characters have way more including what is accompanied in the scene with a blush. Another example of ALL X CONTAIN Y SO Y MUST MEAN X line of argumentation. Trash.

Rewatch the show.

I still don't understand what you deem to be 'sexual'.
Do Anime characters have to do sexual things for us as viewers to consider other characters being attracted to them as sexual?

Since 2012 I avoided making this claim but fuck off Asukafags and Kaworufags, both the same branch of insanity that keeps shitting Eva threads with falseflagging or meta posting.

Attached: 1559412281292.png (680x414, 256K)

I think we're arguing two different things. I meant 'realism' in the case of Instrumentality for Shinji. Rei/Kaworu are stand-ins for Lillith/Adam here and represent the singularity. Even before EoE, Kaworu and Rei mostly act like altruistic idealized archetypes who easily are able to 'give' with no strings attached or commitment from the other party. This is why Shinji falls for Kaworu so easily, he is mentally broken at this point and his selfishness in looking for love and acceptance has driven Asuka and Misato away as he expects support from them is not able to offer any emotional support for them in turn. Kaworu literally has a god-like UNCONDITIONAL love for Shinji where he expects nothing in return for his compassion, which is what Shinji is unknowingly looking for at this point.

Asuka is the reality that being a life without pain, suffering and frustration is basically nothing more than a dream. She makes Shinji suffer at times, as does Shinji make her suffer, but this is all part and parcel for life. She isn't some Mary Sue who is perfect, has no trauma and who is able to offer unconditional love and understanding. She is her own person with her own needs that will at times butt heads with those and possibly make them feel pain. The pain that the two must suffer with each other in their relationship IS the representation for reality, as is the realization that pain and the ups and downs of life is what makes reality worth striving for.

... I think

Attached: misato_boomer.png (1280x720, 613K)

The girl characters have been in the show for 23 episodes, that's only natural.

I'm arguing that the blush is enough to indicate Shinji is on some level attracted to Kaworu, or else there would be no point to add the blush.
There's other actions like them holding hands and Kaworu asking if they're going to bed together that also make the situation sexual.

They do in a series that explicitly is directed that way in every instance BESIDES the one you are arguing. This is how Anno portrays sex and attraction. The show does not tell us there is anything sexual at all, the fact that you have to interpret simple blushing from a character like Shinji to be sexual means you don’t understand how Anno directs, nor Shinji as a character, or you do and wish to ignore it because gay boys make your pp/clitty hard.

Not flat but smallish. And only around 50% of the time.

That's not an argument. You need to provide proof of your claims or else I can't take you seriously.

You only need two seconds. Misato’s first frame is sexual. So is Asuka’s. Rei’s is arguably, though i’d argue it focuses more on the protective instinct rather than the sexual.

If you’re too uneducated to hold a conversation you haven’t met the minimum requirement to argue about this. I’m not going to spoonfeed you if you can’t remember the show we’re talking about. You’re grasping at straws with the blushing and ignoring what isn’t convenient. You’re being ridiculous.

>in every instance BESIDES the one you are arguing
But you've failed to evidence the instances I bring up.
With Misato -> Kaji where is Kaji being sexualized?
With Hikari -> Toji where is Toji being sexualized?
We can tell Misato is sexually attracted to Kaji and Hikari is sexually attracted to Toji JUST based off their blushing, no sexualization needed.

And what about a way more subtle example like Maya -> Ritsuko? We never even see her blushing yet people argue she is in love with her. Do you agree with this interpretation despite no clear sexualization taking place?

>hmmm don't remember the exact frames I'm referencing? Guess I win

The blush signifies Shinji’s platonic affection for Kaworu, how much he matters to him and how much this attention and words of endearment affect him. It has nothing sexual in the scene at all, unlike with the girls. Honestly nothing even close.

Yes, I agree with you that they're sexual.
But can you respond to my point:
>other actions like them holding hands and Kaworu asking if they're going to bed together
How is this not sexual? Especially the last one?

I just rewatched the show this weekend, I'm certain if something like Kaji being sexualized as you claim is in the show I would remember.
If you can't even give me an episode number or proof then what is the point?

It's not a debate if you can't provide evidence for your claims.

Learn more about Japanese culture.

I’m not gonna write you an essay, man. If you can’t see basic shit like this it’s not worth my time. Those reading who actually digested the show will understand.

>The blush signifies Shinji’s platonic affection for Kaworu
No offense but this is a stretch if I've ever seen one.
When in Anime has blushing ever been used to convey something platonic?
If Shinji's feelings were going to be portrayed as platonic, they wouldn't have had him blush in the first place. Period.

Blushing in Anime is often used to denote embarrassment or attraction.
There's no reason to think otherwise with the scene with Kaworu.

It’s not worth it to argue with a speedwatcher. I’ve already given you two scenes and if you can’t work with that than you are a complete waste of effort.

Lol fag has no proof, just load up the episode and take some screenshots

Asking if you want to go to bed together with someone has nothing to do with Japanese culture.
That's a straight up sexual comment.

>I’m not gonna write you an essay, man
Then why engage in conversation in the first place? Either back up your claims or concede.

>he wont humor my idiocy, he must not have proof
Bye retard. My advice? Stop speedwatching.

Just my two cents, anyone married with a girl like Asuka (who didn't go through therapy) would probably end up commiting suicide. She's not the perfect definition of reality, reality isn't that severe. Yes, there are toxic, rude, obnoxious and violent people like Asuka but they're not supposed to be your definition of actual human contact, for a healthy lifestyle you need to avoid people like that. There are good and bad people, not everyone is that severe. You don't need someone like that to show some dose of "reality", your reality can be much happier than that if you cut ties with people like that.

Really, some of you love to justify absolute insane bitches just because they're hot. If they're willing to improve themselves then it's okay, but otherwise it's just emotional decay.

Attached: 1521064038092.jpg (236x390, 25K)

You haven't given me a single scene of Kaji being sexualized.
You haven't refuted any of my arguments and now you're taking the cowardly way out because you're losing.
This is pathetic, I expected more from you user-kun.

Rewatch the show and learn more about Japanese culture. It’s not my place to take you from a level of 1% understanding to 100%. I thought I was at least talking with somebody who can remember the show we’re arguing about. I was wrong, obviously. Not worth it.

I agree user.
I think Asuka was shown as the absolute extreme of what you can expect from reality, not the norm.

I submit, your intellect is far too great for us mortal user

who initiates the kisses

You have no arguments to refute. You have a head canon response to a blush, a brainlet tier interpretation of an explicitly asexual scene, mostly coming from your puritanical American sensibilities, you can’t remember the show we’re talking about and then you think by asking me to write you an essay on every single sexual scene with the girls you’ve won because i’m not gonna spend an hour doing that shit.

I expected nothing and i’m still disappointed. Rewatch the show.

You're taking a cop-out and you know it.
This entire thread you've been mocking people who interpreted Shinji's feelings for Kaworu to be romantic. Now as soon as you're challenged you bow out?
If the answer is so clear to you, you would be eager to prove it in debate. But now you're just running away like Shinji.

Attached: 034870437.png (910x808, 1M)

I'm
And I agree. She's really fucked up. I always saw Instrumentality as the 'therapy' you were referring to though, and saw the caress she gives Shinji as the representation of her acceptance and road to recovery.

>With Misato -> Kaji where is Kaji being sexualized?
>With Hikari -> Toji where is Toji being sexualized?
>We can tell Misato is sexually attracted to Kaji and Hikari is sexually attracted to Toji JUST based off their blushing, no sexualization needed.

>And what about a way more subtle example like Maya -> Ritsuko? We never even see her blushing yet people argue she is in love with her. Do you agree with this interpretation despite no clear sexualization taking place?

Answer these and then explain how Shinij's blushing to Kaworu is somehow different and needs a million more justifications. You're definitely not biased at all and looking for a constructive debate.

Attached: Freude trinken alle Wesen.png (1435x1079, 1.85M)

No cop out here, I expect a minimum level of knowledge to engage in a serious debate. Kaworu has no basis in fact, and i’ve detailed exactly why. If you want to play dumb that’s on you.

>and i’ve detailed exactly why
You made radical claims and refused to provide evidence when challenged on them.

If you were actually in the right you'd be eager to prove me wrong with screenshots and rebuttals. Instead you've been made a fool of by a lowly Kaworufag, for shame.

>where is Kaji being sexualized?
Already addressed

>where is Toji being sexualized?
We’ve never been through the eyes of Hikari

>We can tell Misato is sexually attracted to Kaji and Hikari is sexually attracted to Toji JUST based off their blushing, no sexualization needed.

Incorrect, see above

>And what about a way more subtle example like Maya -> Ritsuko? We never even see her blushing yet people argue she is in love with her. Do you agree with this interpretation despite no clear sexualization taking place?

Debatable, it’s the only moment we get Maya’s perspective.

Now fuck off.

>radical claims
Lmao

>you said Shinji pilots Eva Unit One! That’s a RADICAL CLAIM!

>Already addressed
Nope, you've failed to provide evidence of Kaji being sexualized.

>We’ve never been through the eyes of Hikari
So what? So because we've never seen through her eyes we can't determine if she's attracted to Toji?
She straight up likes Toji, anyone can tell you this - and we know from her blushing.

>Debatable, it’s the only moment we get Maya’s perspective
And yet that one second scene has more evidence of Maya's same sex feelings than Shinji's? I find that terribly hard to believe.

I understand your point, user. If said girl is willing to improve herself and trying her best, I wish her all the luck in the world.

It's just so tiring to see some desperate nerds marrying absolute insane bitches because they're hot, there was a reason most of the other suitable ""chads"" didn't want them. In the end she'll end up pregnant with 5 of his kids (and 3 more from some other desperate ex-virgin), hitting you daily with a bottle of cheap wine and you won't have not a single drop of self esteem, which can lead to suicide or just unhappiness all the way.

That's not worth it, there are better people in the world who truly want the best for you. There's no "but I'll cure her with muh dick", it doesn't work most of the times, unless your dick is made of mental treatment.

Attached: 1557687936057.png (272x340, 149K)

tl;dr
>Shinji blushing at Asuka is sexual attraction
>but Shinji blushing at Kaworu is platonic friends only not gay at all haha, you're gonna need about 1000 more arbitrary conditions to meet for it to be considered anything else
>also all of the staff/anno interviews and drafts suggesting otherwise are not canon
>but the unused lyrics to this song are canon
>i'm not biased btw haha

Attached: 42108.gif (500x375, 1014K)

>EVIDENCE!
Watch the show and/or actually follow the conversation, you were given examples above.

>so what?
We are talking about a scene seen through the eyes of Shinji. The way Anno sexualizes characters through the lens of another is explicitly relevant in this case.

>that one second scene
Yes, of course. She’s the object of her instrumentality affections, I need you, the way she hugs, her character acting, her voice, Ritsuko’s eyes.

Maybe you’re autistic and you don’t understand what attraction looks like? Very strange.

Shinji doesn’t just blush at Asuka, false equivalence.

Every other interaction meets those “1000 criteria”, Kaworu expressly doesn’t.

Out of show content is not canon and you’ve provided shitty mistranslated out of context excerpts like Kaworu spammer

Your bias is massive

NOOO GAYBROS

>you were given examples above
And you were questioned on those examples. Provide an episode number or screenshots or else you'll be called on your bullshit.

>We are talking about a scene seen through the eyes of Shinji
And I'm telling you that we don't need to see through the eyes of Hikari to know she's sexually attracted to Toji. We know just based on her blushing. Likewise, we know the same for Kaworu to Shinji regardless whether he's sexualized or not.

>She’s the object of her instrumentality affections
Oh gee whiz, and guess who the object of Shinji's instrumentality affections was!
>I need you, the way she hugs, her character acting, her voice, Ritsuko’s eyes
All way more subtle than Kaworu and Shinji's actions together.

Attached: Kaworu brings down Shinji's AT field.webm (848x480, 1.58M)

>Every other interaction meets those “1000 criteria”
See: Misato -- > Kaji, Hikari -> Touji, and Maya --> Ritsuko
The middle one is provided only with blushing, the last one has the least evidence of all but none of them are debated. Tell me how Shinji's feelings towards Kaworu are different.

>Out of show content is not canon
Maybe not, but Anno's words are a good supplement to the text and his intent.
>shitty mistranslated out of context
How? Please elaborate.

>muh screenshots
Not my job. If you want to be right so bad you can check them out yourself, faggot.

>we don't need to see through the eyes of Hikari to know she's sexually attracted to Toji

Are you ESL? Is there a language barrier here? THE SCENE IS THROUGH THE EYES OF SHINJI, SHINJI NOT HAVING ANY SEXUALIZATION TOWARDS KAWORU IS DAMNING EVIDENCE THAT SHINJI DOES NOT SEE KAWORU SEXUALLY

SHINJI IN THAT SCENE IS NOT A FUCKING BACKGROUND CHARACTER LIKE HIKARI AND MAYA, AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO COMPARE THE WAY THE SHOW PORTRAYS BACKGROUND CHARACTERS TO SHINJI IN A SCENE DIRECTLY CENTERED ON HIM IS INCREDIBLY TELLING HOW LITTLE YOU UNDERSTAND HOW ANNO DIRECTS AND HOW INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST YOU ARE.

>Oh gee whiz, and guess who the object of Shinji's instrumentality affections was!

Not the same process.

>All way more subtle than Kaworu and Shinji's actions together.
Completely incorrect, but feel free to provide your own reasons otherwise.

>Not my job
It is your job to provide evidence for your claims.
If I were to claim Asuka has brown hair it would be in your right to ask for evidence.
Now give me evidence for Kaji being sexualized, an episode number, scene, anything. It's extremely easy to do and you've refused to every single time. Perhaps because we both know failure to support this point makes your whole argument crumble.

>THE SCENE IS THROUGH THE EYES OF SHINJI
Calm down and read, autismo.
We know Hikari likes Toji based on her blushing, no sexualization is needed.
Likewise, we know Shinji likes Kaworu based on his blushing, no sexualization is needed.
Claiming that there needs to be some when we see other relationships without them is false equivalency and you grasping for straws.

>Not the same process.
Rei takes the form of whatever the character loves most to break down their AT field.
Hyuga sees Misato
Maya sees Ritsuko
Fuyutsuki sees Yui
Shinji sees Kaworu

>but feel free to provide your own reasons otherwise.
Because this is the only scene Maya gets hinting at feelings towards Ritsuko. A similar scene has Shinji seeing Kaworu, ON TOP of all the shit that occurs between them in episode 24.

Fuck it, i’m out of here. This has been a tremendous waste of time. I’m gonna go watch anime. Kaworunigger, you have nothing. Bye.

>still can’t/refuses to follow basic logic
Yup:

Thanks for conceding, I guess.
Why get so triggered by people stating the fact that Shinji loves Kaworu romantically if you're just gonna back out of the argument when you're finally called out?
I don't get you user, I thought you'd be happy to put me in my place and prove me wrong. But I guess the canon just doesn't agree with you.

Attached: Gay and Rei.jpg (5401x3949, 2.76M)

There was no such concession. You are literally a waste of time and have no basis in reality whatsoever.

I got one:
Describe to me your entire understanding of the show and how it’s directed. Won’t do it? Guess you concede :^)

I'd gladly do it user, and I'd even provide evidence for any claims I make too.
Maybe you should do the same next time you decide to engage in a debate.

Enjoy your anime, friend!

Attached: shinji being a faggot.jpg (5432x4372, 1.5M)

No, do it. Do it right now. Go on, since you want to be right so much.

I can't believe kaworu never loved shinji "that way"... sigh. Evangelion is such a disappointment.....

It's not about being right, it's about showing you how to engage in constructive and healthy debate.
You need to show evidence for your claims and put effort into the conversation to reach an understanding of value.

Since you seem to have conceded on the Shinji-Kaworu debate, I will gladly talk about my understanding of the show with you if you're interested.
But first, take a breather to cool down and watch your anime - I need to go walk my doggo.

Attached: banjo kaworu.png (1007x796, 1.17M)

The Fatal Disease

A cowardly soul. A heart full of want. A desire to be loved.
Ikari Shinji.
The day he headed for the land of destiny was coincidentally the day of the first Angel attack in 15 years.
His father’s order. The adults’ expectations. An injured girl.
“I mustn’t run away.”
He repeats like a spell and pilots the Eva.
Sortie. Berserk. Battle. Defense. Strategy. Defeat. Ambush. Crushing. Retreat. Berserk. Destruction.
He has several meetings of chance as he continued to battle the Angels.
Ayanami Rei — Bandages. Mysteries. Indifference. An object of interest. Mother.
Soryu Asuka Langley — Girl. Perplexing. Formidable. Indecipherable. Sex.
Katsuragi Misato — Adult. Superior. Meddlesome. Soldier. Family.
Ikari Gendo — Harsh. Commander. Hatred. Anger. Father. Father. Father…
Many words and looks were directed at him.
But, he closed himself away in the deep, dark depths of his heart, and simply hid himself.
Just staring timidly from the shadows…
But, the words “I love you” cleared away the darkness in his heart.
Nagisa Kaworu. The Fifth Child. A kind boy.
The first person he opened his heart to.
But, Kaworu turned out to be an Angel. The enemy of man. Something not human.
Betrayal. Despair. Regret. Anger.
He gets in Unit 01 and wrings out those complicated emotions as he kills Kaworu.
The first person to tell him “I love you.”
The first being he opened his heart to.
With his own hands…
-Evangelion: Death & Rebirth (Special Edition) Theatrical Program Book

Attached: Ode to Joy.jpg (512x384, 17K)

You don't have constructive anything on here user. You type into the ether and it eventually disappears.

But I still want to form connections with people, I want to reach out even if we hurt each other, even if there will be nothing but pain I still want to be with the anons on Yea Forums(nel)

Attached: file.png (500x322, 197K)

>HE CAN’T EVEN DO IT HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

see how retarded this is yet?

We could have had a healthy and constructive debate if you were actually properly educated on the topic of discussion, or took the care to educate yourself when provided the means to do so. If you respect the debate so little as to either: A. Not know what I’m talking about going in or B. Not know it is your responsibility to be educated about the show before discussing it, we can’t have a meaningful discussion.

>y-you’ve conceded
Is that your cope? Pretty pathetic to be honest. You’ve not addressed any counterpoint you’ve been given and hidden behind your own ignorance as a barrier to entry. Downright embarrassing.

Both of them are Leo...

I'll let you take a breather before we re-initiate discussion. Cool your head and come back on a fresh slate.

Cope.

>socialist utopia
Now I'm mad.
Read Joseph Campbell's The One Thousand Face Hero and then say that again, faggot.

>But I still want to form connections with people
That doesn't happen on Yea Forums user get a healthier hobby

If it is the tv series Shinji isn't with anyone it is about accepting himself and that he can be happy anywhere.

If it is EoE it is the same but with Asuka who among many things is about facing reality in that it is something that can both hurt and love and all that exists in living.

I guess if someone wants Shinji Nagisa watch like 3.33 and hope that it goes that direction in 3+1, 4 or whatever it is called now.

Anno is homophobic. I will not accept this

Man, EoE really shows how thoroughly un-Christian Eva really is, despite its use of Christian imagery. I mean, it's the end of the world and nobody does any praying at all.

Kaworufags don’t really care about what actually happens or the meaning of the show. Just let them simmer and laugh. They are the dancing organ-grinder monkey’s of the Eva fandom.

Based and bipilled.

?Maya Ibuki?

Kowaru made Shinji's girly kokoro go dokidoki

Attached: tumblr_ms24cnA8IE1sq1iu3o1_1280.jpg (800x700, 188K)

Sorry user, but my dog takes priority over your feelings. I'm sorry for neglecting you but I'm back to give you attention.
Now do you actually want to continue our previous conversation on Shinji-Kaworu by acting like an adult and supplying evidence or have you completely conceded and want to discuss something else?

Eva's imagery is mostly from Kabbalah Judaism. Lilith never shows up in Christianity/New testament iirc.

>tfw if Shinji was a grill this thread/debate wouldn't even exist

Attached: C-dhi4HVwAEoI9V.jpg (1080x1080, 100K)

Did kaworu really said that?

I'm not sure if I'm happy that Anno made Shinji a boy and got him to crossdress
or if I'm angry that Anno made Shinji a boy instead of a girl like originally planned

Attached: 1446155985015.jpg (500x901, 95K)

In the drafts? Yeah. Shinji was full on yandere gay for him and Kaworu friend-zoned him.

>SHINJI: To tell you the truth, I was avoiding you. Next to you, I'm such a pathetic excuse for a person…… I feel like I'm going to go crazy when I'm with you, but, when I can't see you…… I feel so, so anxious…… And when I thought about how you shouldn't spend your life with someone as pathetic as me…… I just felt like dying……
The sky is dark, their figures are in complete silhouette now.
SHINJI: I can't see your face now……. Kaworu, I……
KAWORU: (Interrupting him) I'm sorry……. I don't feel that way about you.
SHINJI: –––
KAWORU: Let's go home separately. I don't want to hurt you any more.
Kaworu leaves by himself.
Shinji stands there in a sea of despair.

wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:Episode_24_Draft_1_(Translation)

Yep, in EoE during the quick flashing scene. Same line was in the drafts

porn is acting. some men fucking both sexes does not demonstrate bisexuality.
the bipill must give you some sort of really fucked up std

From what I understand it was Sadamoto who convinced Anno to change Shinji to a boy, because it would have been too much like Gunbuster 2.0 otherwise

But ironically we still got Gunbuster 2.0

Attached: totally not shinji and kaworu.jpg (259x194, 12K)

Because he literally gave everything Shinji wanted from someone else.

worst. (or best.) decision. ever.

Attached: 1544939752114.jpg (1024x768, 333K)

>Shinji freaks out when he sees giant Rei
>calms down and drifts into a blissful dreamstate when he sees Kowaru
What did he actually mean by this

I think it was not so much convince by anyone as he already had a main character who was a girl in Nadia and feeling like Tomino had boy main characters in his series

Attached: DtLbp1EWoAAyzq7.jpg (492x488, 74K)

why couldnt they have just made Shinji a tomboy Nadia

Attached: 1554516783813.jpg (1446x2046, 1.36M)

I honestly have no idea

Attached: this is some gay ass shit.jpg (800x2073, 649K)

Because Nadia had an awful personality whereas Shinji is sweet and soft

because Shinji is about Anno deciding to continue to be a director and animator

>implying sweet tomboys aren't the best

The show wouldn't work if Shinji wasn't male, with the attack on otaku escapism being a core theme.

shinji cant even be a regular boy let a lone a tom boy.

The show could exist if Asuka was the main character like originally planned it would just be completely different.

Shinji could totally be a regular girl trying to be a tomboy (but having too sweet a personality) tho

Attached: 1544918728112.jpg (550x811, 139K)

>Shinji is so psychological ruined that someone happening to mention he loves him and being nice for a few days makes him want to drop his pants for that person
Imagine thinking kaworu is fucking gay. Imagine thinking this show has any deeper meaning then some fucking idiots leaving the fate of the entire earth to a fucking kid with mommy and daddy issues. Congratulations

Attached: 802F353F-20A8-4700-94E7-CC7E75E041EA.jpg (888x1076, 424K)

There's nobody left on earth but fucked up people by the time the show starts, because Second Impact was the Rapture and all the people who were good and healthy and normal got Tang'd when it happened.

Based Anno dabbing on fags.

Did misato actually have any issues? She seemed incredibly sane compared to then the fucking freak show around her

I just want to know one thing...who is on the top and who is the bottom?

Attached: 1558055529851.jpg (720x736, 45K)

functioning alcholic

Imagining Shinji dropping his pants for you.

not at all, shinji is too much of a pussy to be a regular boy.

haha imagine getting Shinji to crossdress for you haha

Attached: 1544918224856.jpg (706x999, 440K)

I really wish this was isolated but trannies think this is what shinji os supposed to be....

>a total /r9k/ newfag (AKA no so bitter about everything)
>3dp girls
>the only one who doesn't treat like shit happens to be an alien boy
gee, I wonder why

boards.fireden.net/a/search/image/94LvUK7_Su1gDxCNYLjdmg/

lust=/=love
holy fugg

Attached: 1554428488354.jpg (1280x720, 52K)

I love maid Shinji.

Shinji powerbottoms, obviously.

Attached: ou.png (816x625, 625K)

it wouldnt but changing genders just because of the current politics isnt love either.

Oh yea. That never seemed like much of an issue but im sure her liver was suffering.
That’s gay as fuck nigga

I got through half this thread..

Attached: 1545231075459.jpg (246x246, 27K)

Attached: br.jpg (841x2190, 596K)

same

I mean I dont think wanting Shinji to have been a girl like intended has much to do with the TQ
but he's cute as a crossdresser so w/e

Attached: 1548922295073.png (497x750, 209K)

>intended
i know you are fucking with me but common now.

Very gay.
So cute.

Attached: 2d7e053991f5aaf8afff03908794b02e.jpg (607x802, 205K)

I thought it was the other way around? Did I watch a different version of the show?

The majority of characters in the show serve to flesh/give depth to Shinji as a character.
By showing how he responds to characters of different personalities Shinji is made even more complex and intricate. Therefore, removing any character from the show also removes a part of Shinji.
Shinji is the glue that holds Evangelion together, he is the star of the show, thus what the other characters contribute to his own is just as significant.

Okay, that's my Shinjifag autism for the week.

Attached: CWwpHJoUAAAABe5.jpg (400x517, 36K)

Correct.

The main theme of Evangelion above all else is to love oneself.
Therefore Shinji's best waifu is himself.

Attached: love yourself.jpg (1073x878, 179K)

You fuckers only like Maya because we never see what she's actually like. You think she's "normal" because we don't pry into her personal life, other than finding out she's a lesbian in EoE. I guarantee she's just as batshit as anyone else at NERV. Nobody at NERV is normal, they're all fucking crazy.

>kaworu getting double cucked

Attached: 1485911199996.jpg (844x720, 102K)

it was heavily implied during the series. The way she looked up to ritsuko.

no really
he was originally supposed to be a girl

Attached: tumblr_m2lfikOXuS1rtgc19o1_500.jpg (500x750, 118K)

She could do her job professionally all the way, show emotion, and didn't want to end the world.
Good enough for me to consider sane among all the others.

says who? because Anno just redrew and old female character and made it a boy? Anno went on record to say shinji was his self insert.

it was just what was originally planned for the character

Why do even expend the effort to be a retard? Clearly you have to try—So why do it?

where is the source on this?

the early, productions documents had Asuka or Asuka like charecter as the main character but it also had a final fight on the moon so it doesn't mean

I thought it was a metaphor for human's relation to the infinite. A human even in the infinite is stll just a human. No matter where they end up. Your relation ship and archetype must be fulfilled to fully close your story.

where are these early documents, where is the proooooof. None the less shinji is a guy and a little bitch.

clearly bait

>loving is without chore
>just be you

who's the normalfag now?

Google it

Attached: earlyeva.jpg (412x599, 99K)

how else can you attract the girls?

I am in fact elated that Netflix fixed this line. No gay-erasure here, cause there was never any to begin with.

Anno and Sadamoto have talked about this in interviews and books about the series.

Attached: asuka.jpg (412x599, 82K)

/thread

Yes Shinji liked the Angel in a human form that liked everything that he did and just accepted he existed. It was like a mothers love as he saw it unconditional which like his mother went away. It wasn't exactly sexual and it wasn't exactly real either.

That's fucking easy.
>Rei
>Daddy gives her all the attention
>"..."

>Asuka
>constantly needs to be rescued
>"WATCH ME WATCH ME BAKA SHINJI"

>Kowaru
>"Sup dude, how you doing, you ok after last mission?"
Oh wow, like it was that hard to win a guy over.

>not an actually response
Begone Netflix nigger

Attached: 0A4046FA-5C4F-4032-A09C-79B4B64BD19E.jpg (480x360, 26K)

Asuka was cuter as a brunette

Nah Sadamoto is just a great artist and all of them look cute to see being slightly differently

Attached: evasadamoto.jpg (600x387, 82K)

Kaworu is hot

Kaworu loved him for his flaws, not despite his flaws
It’s not unconditional, just extremely pure and genuine

and that says what?

really looks like they just showed concept art for auska here

Kaworu or Adam loved humanity as it was space Jesus. It was drawn to what it assumed was it's own body. In finding out that it was tricked it choose to have Shinji to end its life. This was because it didn't want to end Lillith's kids by recreating life on earth in its own image. Didn't seem to care that much about Shinji.

This is why 3.33 Kaworu is different though without 4 it isn't exactly clear how. Kaworu might not be adam but just an angel or Kaworu might be able to understand that the series events have happened before the "this time I will make you happy" line.

koworu is adam. Thing is there are like 4 vessels of the adams. Basically his former body or at least perfect copies of them.

why are you gay?

But it’s because he cared about shinji that he gave up his life in the first place
I think shinji was his first real interaction with a human, SEELE don’t really count

Kaworu in the tv series is Adam. It hasn't been revealed if Kaworu is Adam in the rebuilds.

Kaworu says he’s the 1st angel in 3.0

>But it’s because he cared about shinji that he gave up his life in the first place

No it was discovering that the body in terminal dogma was not his own body but that of lilith and or also the presence of God Rei that he asked Shinji to take his life. He wasn't going to let Shinji stop him when Shinji was crying for Kaworu to stop.

he also says he got knocked down to the 13th all because of gendo

Kaworu said this time he was demoted to the 13th angel. I don't know exactly what this means but it adds to the idea that Kaworu is aware of the tv events and or that it is not the same this time being the 1st angel.

/thread
What Shinji wanted was someone to explicitly care about him, but Rei was too shy and Asuka was too tsun.

shinji was already the lead by the time of the proposal

the lead being a girl was very early on, like pre-plot early

I thought this was just Rei pretending to be him

at that point lilith and adam were fused, so its both.

faggot