Literal vs Liberal Translation in Anime

THIS.

I speak japanese, don't care.

Fuck EOPs and their “literal” faggotry

Truth. Liberal translation aiming to preserve the general mood and meaning while making it sound completely natural has always been the gold standard of literary translations.

That's backwards. EOP, especially normalfags, would love liberal Commie/4kids/Netflix tier subs.

The literal translation is why the line delivery is so rushed. People don't naturally use so many words at such a high speed.

I don't think you can do both at once.

Literal because I'm not an uncultured pleb who wishes to Americanized everything.

I do.

If you care enough to be bothered by one or the other, you care enough to fucking learn Japanese. Quit being lazy.

>literal and translation are mutually exclusive
t.monolingual

Translating only a few words while having 3000 translator notes in every episode explaining what each word means.

But the Netflix subs in this case are the overly literal and stilted ones.

As literal as possible. Ideally not commie or 4kids tier.

>netflix
>literal
Wut

THIS

Did you even read the OP?

>If the translator is competent and actually understands not just the denotations but the connotations and subtext of the languages he's translating between
Liberal

>if the translator is not any of the above
Literal

Unironically this.

It's funny, but I remember when people were complaining about overly literal fantranslations back in the early to mid 2000's.

You don't know what liberal translation means.

For most things I'd agree with you, but when it comes to stuff like "shooting fish in a barrel" and other proverbs, they are tricky to translate and you DO essentially pick one over the other

Liberal is for uncultured brainlets. As literal as possible, with only minor concessions for naturalism. If you need the 4kids treatment on everything you watch, foreign media isn't for you.

based and redpilled

Literal. If you want the americanized version, watch the dub. Most of the emotional impact comes from the delivery and visuals anyways.

Right sounds a colloquial line English speakers would say. How do we know OP isn't mistaken?

the worst part of either translation is the exclamation point

How much translation experience do you have?

right sounds like something you'd hear on Sesame Street, left sounds much more natural to a native speaker

Literal translations are not even translations. They do not 'translate' concepts into another language.

Dubs should be pretty literal too. The new Netflix Eva dub, for example, blows the pants off the old shitty 4kids style dub.

7 years fansubbing.

Liberal translations are not even translations, they're just reimaginings.

Anyone who supports literal translations is a brainlet who probably knows 1 language and has never travelled outside their country
Every language ever requires context for full translation because barely any word can be used literally, it isn't something exclusive of the Japanese language as memes made you think
Go try to have a conversation with a native speaker of another language while ignoring the mood and context of the situation you are in and see how it goes

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Khara micromanaged the dub. That's probably why it took 6 months from announcement to premiere. They didn't want Netflix to bungle it like Funimation did to 3.0.

That's what a translation is. You have to re-create the story.
Literal translations for a context-based language like Japanese is a thoroughly idiotic concept.

Proof?

Why did they go with 'like' anyway? You don't see 'learn to LIKE yourself!' in advice columns. 'LIKING yourself so you can LIKE others' etc..

I would say it's better if we're talking in terms of the dub quality
But the translations for some scenes sound very unnatural and weird
"I'm so fucked up" vs "I'm the lowest of the low"
If the left is too liberal, then the latter is still too literal and doesn't portray the scene any better. A line like "I'm the worst" would work much better.

Shinji and Kaworu are nothing but platonic and nothing you cry about will change that :)

absolute YIKES

I'll take 5% imperfect over 60% imperfect any day

Or 'I'm a total scum'.

you all know 'literal' doesn't mean with completely trashed grammar right?
I can appreciate this discussion on an idealistic level, and it would be amazing if anime translators were adept enough to find the perfect balance, but they're not, at least it's impossible to maintain quality control across that many differing skill levels.
How much does CR pay their subbers? how much work are they assigned every season?
I'm against liberal translations on principle because once you let some 25 year old asshole in a cubicle translating a show he doesn't even want to watch change the script because THEY decided it sounded more natural then why bother watching something japanese people wrote in the first place?

I don't give a fuck about what some american thinks it SHOULD say, I want to know what the studio/mangaka wrote.
Giving translators creative control is an extremely dangerous precedent.

> :)

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Because in japanese you don't say "love" unless you mean romantically and then some brainlet at netflix looked at his dictionary and decided that it needs to be that way. Or some stupid reason like that.

>I'm the lowest of the low
but this is a completely normal sentence that anyone who has ever been really ashamed of themselves might say???

I'm not sure, a lot of the translator's decisions are weird.
The word used in this scene is 好き, which is translated to like or love depending on the context.
You can say I like pizza (好き), but look at any romance anime where the girl confesses I love you (好き) to the guy. It's the same word but is translated from like/love depending on the context. The translator seemed to forgo the context for a more word-to-word translation.

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Based. The art is what is important, if I don't get it, it's up to me to learn about it, not have some asshole spoonfeed me a shitty americanized approximation.

It sounds like something spoken in a theatrical play. Unnatural. Especially for a teenage boy.

No, the liberal translation would be "but maybe I can unlearn my toxic masculinity one day and #showup for racial justice"

>in japanese you don't say "love" unless you mean romantically
But in English we do, so shut the fuck up.

Translations are translations. Localization is localization. A translation that emphasis on localizing for the sake of convenience, that is, make a Japanese character suddenly speak/use Western concepts/idioms/cultural values for example, will most certainly will stray furthest from the original meaning.

This is why formal equivalence exists, and FE is best for anime and manga translations where the majority of the targeted audience are generally familiar with basic Japanese cultures, but more important is they are familiar with the otaku culture and the sub-cultures within. Translation that caters to that group will have a more positive reception.

Based

The context was not one of a romantic confession. If you can't handle Japspeak maybe stop watching anime?

Yep

>early to mid 2000's.
No you don't, kid.

The context was too misleading. Based Khara clarified the true meaning.

I don't think Danslation is exactly literal. There are some liberties taken, so it would be best to call it liberally literal. If you want some real ass literal translation then here it is:
andromeda.animanga.com/scripts/textesgb/eva1.html
Translated by several otakus in the mid 90s. They were complete novices in English so there's plenty of engrish there.

>if I don't get it, it's up to me to learn about it
absolutely, I meant to also include this, thank you
maybe people will never agree about this specific line because it honestly just doesn't feel unnatural to me, but I would argue that a lot of scenes in eva could be called pretty theatrical

The context is Shinji coming to the infinity that he can stop hating himself and learn to like/love himself.
In English, the word love best conveys the impact that this line has and like seems too weak/unnatural.

To translate word from word consistently throughout the entire anime despite that same word being used in different contexts is ludicrous.

>was not one of a romantic confession
Right, but in English, "love" is a term that can be used for familial love, love like friendship, love like god, etc. Not just romantic confession. It carries the intent of the scene much more, and Shinji saying "Kaworu said I was worthy of being loved" makes way more fucking sense than "Kaworu said I was worthy of his grace" like a fucking nonce

+translator's notes and this is fine
idioms are a bitch and sometimes I'd rather they just be swapped when the culture gap is too wide to be comprehensible, but that's just laziness on my part

My level of Japanese is probably higher than yours. It's only newfag weebs who display this sort of zealotry 'LITERAL OR ELSE!!!'.

Whatever method produces the masterpiece that is "Eoten Onslaught"

The worthy of grace line in particular makes no sense
好意 means good will/affection

"You are worthy of being treated well" is what it would literally say, I'm not sure where the translator got grace from.

>That's what a translation is. You have to re-create the story.
You deserve death for that, gommie.
Liberal translation can be done well by high iq people very well versed in the cultures, that is NOT the liberal fansubber.
literal trad**Doki*balanced trad****liberal trad*commie
Only early vivid was able to do that in their time.

Just because you weren't alive back then doesn't mean anybody else wasn't

I doubt it, considering you're crying over an unburgerized script.

You only feel that way because we've had the other way for so long. He isn't "loving" himself, he's "liking" himself. Two different meanings.

Of course it could, but in this context, it wasn't clear enough what it can mean. Like is far more appropriate and ambiguous while leaning on the intended meaning, unlike Love.

A translator should aim to interpret the meaning and feel of the original script. Japanese and English are different enough in how they express things that moving between the two is a creative writing process. If you try to go overly literal, you'll wind up sucking the personality out of it.

What you shouldn't do, though, is start writing your own script. If you have your own script ideas, then go write your own story.

They want to beat you over the head with the fact that Kaworu is an angel and his love is of the divine kind, but it's Shinji's line and he doesn't know that about Kaworu, so it's not just clunky but also really unfitting and basically ruins the scene.

The irony is that shinji's actions in that episode are anything but platonic.
What's weird is why Shinji would care so much about a dude that only said he likes him, it just seems too weak of a word to properly convey the impact the 'suki' had.

He doesn't have to know it to feel it.

Ship goggles. Completely, 100% not sexual.

>Like is far more appropriate and ambiguous
It isn't supposed to be ambiguous. That is the entire point of Kaworu. Lots of people in Shinji's life "likes" him with ambiguity and conditionalities, and Kaworu is the first person to give him unconditional respect and love.

What usenet group were you part of, then?
Cause it sure ain't on Yea Forums, toddler.

But 好意 doesn't mean grace in any Japanese dictionary I'm aware of. So doesn't that make this a liberal translation rather than a literal one?

Localized for American audience.

Not sexual on Kaworu's end, but Shinji is confused, lonely, desperate, and pathetic. I think it's really ridiculous to deny the homosexual or at least bicurious undertones of their relationship.

I would agree with you if not for the line where Kaworu asks if they're going to sleep together and Shinji blushing at him
That's the direct opposite of platonic

The ambiguity is in the homosexual subtext, there are light tinges there, but nothing that actually exists, unlike the original line which inaccurately paints the scene as far more homoerotic than it should.

>Undertones
Perhaps, but nothing ACTUALLY. Shinji never wanted to fuck Kaworu.

A SHY BOY BLUSHING? HOMOSEXUALITY CONFIRMED!!

>liberal translation
fanfiction is the word you want

Translate the meaning litterally, orhanise the flow liberally.

put me in the screencap, herkz!

Anno says himself the episode has some homoerotic elements in it.
And I don't think the new translation affects it, what it does affect is why Shinji got so attached to Kaworu - because he was the first person to say he loved him.

citation.

At this point you're simply trolling. Find better us of your time.

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From the anno interview he did with the yaoi magazine

>Interviewer: Who worked on episode 24?

>Anno: A person named Satsukawa (Akio)-san did that. Satsukawa-san is better at—this is bad to say, but—he’s right on the mark when it comes to homoeroticism. *laughs*

So he straight up says homoeroticism was an element in the episode.
I don't think it means they wanted to fuck each other or anything sexual, but to say it's 100% bros being bros like Shinji with Toji and Kensuke isn't right either.

Because he's a retard that looked up "suki" in a dictionary and saw it meant "like", so he wrote that. It's literal to the retarded kind of degree that just gives the wrong impression.

Newfag pls. It's like you watched Eva for the first time only yesterday.

Is the nexflix subs still good enough overall or should I avoid it?

>Literal vs Liberal Translation in Anime

I once seen "God you piss me off" translated into my language literally, rather than as an idiom so i would say liberal translation.

A translator is supposed to tell me what they mean, not to butcher the foreign idioms and jokes.

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I couldn't care less, if you're dumb enough to consume translations, you'll literally take anything you can get.

The overly liberal translations of today were a reaction to overly literal translations in the past.

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Avoid it. See what they did there:

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If you want to watch Eva, you really should just torrent it. But if you can't for whatever reason it could possibly be, they're serviceable.

I would argue the like/love line has nothing to do with the nature of their relationship.
You can argue they're just friends, like brothers, or like lovers all you want.

The point is that Kaworu showed Shinji was he desperately wanted, which was love - no matter what kind of love it was that you want to argue. And that's why Kaworu's death hit him so hard. I think translating it to like lessens the impact and therefore makes Shinji's reaction to Kaworu's death out-there and exaggerated.

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Yea Forums wants more of this.

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#
#
#
>hurt durr If a gay guy comes on to you and you get flustered that means you're also gay
All of you need to go back to Tumblr ASAP

>yellow subtitles
Who actually thought this was a good idea?

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>#

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literal

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It's not, but thanks for asking.

It's actually a better choice than that Netflix abomination with no outline.

Translating suki as love or like is not about being literal or liberal it is about understanding the context.
In the OP pic it should obviously be love since that makes the most sense in English.

>posts a picture that laughs at a mistranslation
What does that have to do with your post?

I feel like you're too much of a brainlet to have a serious conversation with, so I'll just leave it here.

Not really, but thanks for notifying me of your preferences?

I wish the Netflix movie referenced that meme.
>This is going according to my keikaku, which is the Japanese word for plan

kek
Thanks. That made my day.

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This.

Any translation will do as long as it's in yellow

No problem. Go with green subtitles whenever possible.

All the memes that came out of this is the best part of eva coming to netflix

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At leas that makes sense.
>I want to help you
With what?
She looks like she's having tha most terrible constipation right there and he didn't even bring an enema.
>You can help me
Help you do what again?
Who speaks like that?

The 14 years old me couldn't rell heads from tails in that dialogue, what is even going on?
You gonna help her?
Like give her a really good hug so she immeadiatelly forgets that kaji just died? Relly?

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Are there more memes? Post them.

shinji acted more gay than kaworu in that episode

Get the fuck off my board, tranny.

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not everyone was born in 2002 like you

Thanks for the blogpost, tourist!
Remember, next time it's TWO (2) Years (365 days) before posting!
And remember, you're a faggot!

>>You can help me
>Help you do what again?
>Who speaks like that?
This really doesn't seem unnatural to me. It seems way more natural than the forced out of nowhere confession on the right. Have I just watched too much anime?

Dan did nothing wrong. Some asshat decided to pull two lines together will omitting the rest in between.
>I want to do anything I can for you. I want us to be together forever!
>Then don't do anything. Stop bothering me.
>All you do is hurt me.
>Asuka, help me!
>Please, you're the only one for me, Asuka!
>Liar.
Shinji doesn't mean they are to love each other forever, but how only Asuka can help him.

Oh, it's that shitter again. Crapping all over /m/ is not enough for you?

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If we want to get literal. The Japanese would never address themselves in a statement like this while saying "I" is proper to do in English, it would be unnecessary to do in Japanese. In Japan they would be under the assumption that they are speaking for their self. Also you would never start a sentence with the words But and Maybe together, it's one or the other. Shinji isn't yelling or speaking with enthusiasm in the scene so an exclamation point is just added nonsense. If it were a literal translation it would sound almost more like a jew asking a question. Like "Maybe learning to like myself one day"

Literal translations just sound weird.

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He try to oldfag but fail so hard at it.

Came here to post this. I can't stand when something is so liberal it may as well be its own thing entirely.

This thread proves that Yea Forums is full of low functioning retards. About 80% of you need to kill yourselves.

Which group worked on this? They didn't even have an editor.
>on accident + accidentally
>will + was

Isn't it possible for a translation to be so literal that it loses its meaning?

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English is grammatically rigid and omitting I just makes no sense, without I it's not i fucking sentence anymore.

There are other languages that give you a lot of wiggle room and they often have a much more elaborate grammar that allows placing word in any order and omitting the obvious.

And those are fuckhard to learn.

Literal translations with notes regarding the meanings of idioms, cultural subtext behind certain words/phrases, and wordplay involving things like alternate readings of characters. Anything else is trash.

Not with the idioms and jokes.

Imagine translating "god, you piss me off" to other language.
It's either a statement about urination, or you replace it with some other idiom that means "to annoy a lot" in that language.

All that information takes away from the viewing experience. I want my eyes to fixate on the visuals foremost, not fly from bottom to the top with only a sliver of chance to ever notice what has changed in the shot. If you want subtextual information go read books.

Okay, so there's a balance between liberal and literal, having either extreme is bad. Take the opening lines of “Love is War,” which starts with “mou yukiba ga nai wa” which literally translates to “this place has not is.” A liberal translations would be “I have no place to go.”

Back in ye olden days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and anime was carved out of stone, I remember watching subtitled shows that were so technical and literal with their translations that my eyes would glaze over in boredom watching them.

Because they were doing a literal translation.

Actually, the literal translation is 'there is no destination anymore'.

Could have just said you are retarded and save some useless typing.

isn't it true that the netflix subs don't even translate on-screen text?

Read books.

They don't translate any on-screen text, the episode titles, and there's a lot of grammatical errors in the subs

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Why not just “I’m scum”?

Title cards, such as in the dialog sections of episode 26 are translated. Episode 14 recap cards are also translated. Japanese Episode titles are meant for Japanese eyes only, so they shouldn't have been translated ever.

I didn't specifically say that the notes should appear at the same time as the dialogue. In other formats, you often see this actualized through notes pages appended to the work. With anime, there is a secondary possibility (besides including a text file of notes to scrutinize before/after viewing) in creating a second subs track which includes the notes during the episode and thus facilitating multiple viewings for greater comprehension or for people who can read quickly.

>Japanese Episode titles are meant for Japanese eyes only

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>they translated the title cards in the recap episode, but not for the episodes they actually appear in

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It's dumb though for people to view this as a literal translation though. I thought that a lot of the comparisons would be like when ADV peppered in filler to fill gaps. Like the one scene in Japanese has Shinji say "Father did that" while ADV has him say "Bullshit! My father did that?"

I think localization is getting a lot less flack these days due to people starting to understand that even subs are localized because Japanese means nonsense when trying to simply form it into English. Still people seem to still have issue with the concept of a literal translation vs a localization that still captures the impact of the original dialogue.

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Localization in itself isn't a bad thing.

A GOOD translation would explain what the Japanese mean without having them sound like americans instead.

>I think localization is getting a lot less flack these days due to people starting to understand that even subs are localized because Japanese means nonsense when trying to simply form it into English.
It's mostly because we've moved away from the kind of yukked up dubs where entire conversations no longer have anything to do with what was talked about in Japanese anymore. "Liberal" used to mean "just make shit up".

Platinum Subs > Netflix Subs (Is better in a few scenes) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Netflix Dub >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ADV "Dub"

B.A. in Translation here.
Literal translations are garbage. Overtly liberal translations are not bad in the context of the arts, as art has to be functional and aesthetical rather than literal. Octavio Paz translated many a Japanese poem books into Spanish very liberally, and they were not bad translations simply because they weren't completely true to the original. Same thing with Tolkien and his translation of uh... what was it? Gilgamesh?
Function is utmost.
Personally I prefer translations that let the original language shine through as well though, my interest in Japanese came from many-a translations that did not simply involve localizing every single aspect of the original language, but such is not the case for the let's say "average" consumer of media. You translate for your audience, and as far as movies, tv shows, and cartoons/anime goes your audience is the minimum common denominator, so don't take chances.

>watch a comedy anime with horriblesubs/crunchy/funimation subs
>it's unfunny

>watch it with liberal fansubs
>it's actually funny

Translation should be figuring out whats being said and then converting it to something natural. People who believe the exact same prose can be translated across languages are idiots.

"Love" is a broader term that can possess multiple meanings besides just romantic feelings.

It's the ideal word in this situation so the "like" translation is literally retarded. Nobody refers to such concepts like "love yourself" or "love between friends" as like. Love is literally the more vague, flexible term.

>A GOOD translation would explain what the Japanese mean without having them sound like americans instead.

that's not localization.

I-I was born in 2001, k-kike!!!

Just learn Japanese

Too Literal > Too Liberal

FACT.

That's less about being liberal and more about being competent. Humor requires carefully worded translation to stay funny.

Netflix is just distributing Eva, you fucking retards, they had nothing to do with the subs. It's Khara that's being hands on.

The story with that started all the way back with Evangelion 3.0

>the dub was met with some laughter in the US
>not sure if this premiered at a con or in the theaters, but someone can correct me there
>general consensus is that the original dub was bad, and this lead to Khara getting involved in the translation
>khara ended up making their own subtitles for the funimation blu ray release, iirc
>not much was actually changed in the dub as far as dialogue goes - there's a rumor going around right now that the whole thing was redone, but it's bullshit
>people are assuming that's the case because it took a long time for 3.0 to get home releases
>in the first dub of 3.0, the performances were flat, especially with Misato
>there's also a rumor that Kaworu was "gayer" in the first dub, and that the dialogue was hammed up to remove any ambiguity - this is also bullshit

>the real reason it took so long for 3.0 home releases is due to a legal battle for Khara to get full control of the IP

The Kharasubs are actually incredibly helpful as a supplement to the series, it really helps inform Anno's true intent.

ANNO HATES LOSERS AND OUTCASTS !!

FAASTO CHIRUDOREN

bad liberal < literal < good liberal

>they were not bad translations simply because they weren't completely true to the original
Any translation that fails to inform the audience of the original creator's full message or which deviates from that original vision is utter garbage and should be considered shameful to produce. As in all other matters, liberalism is cancer.

Being true to the original =/= literal.
Go back to school

>just eviscerate meaning and expect nothing of your audience because marketing
You say that like it's news to me when it's something I've both understood the motivations for and hated for the near entirety of my life.
>the audience probably doesn't understand this cultural reference
>better delete it
Look mom I'm "translating".

There are simply too many variables to go into a black or white mindset like this; inflection, prose, wordplay, double entendres, figures of speech, metaphor, etc. All of these types of discourse have no single specific way to be translated 1:1.
Consumer's money rules the world, user. No money, no cultural exchange.
>mom why is this Japanese person so angry that this other person didn't call them "-san"
>here honey let me pause this 21 minute episode to take another minute to explain Japanese manners to you

And now little Billy learned something about other cultures. Is that a bad thing?

Learn Japanese.

>I want to know what the studio/mangaka wrote.
Learn Japanese if it's that important to you. No matter what some things are lost in translation.

But how? Khara sent their in-house translator, not Anno himself.

>implying he learned anything
He would simply stop watching a show which piles up too many things he cannot understand.

Little Billy only speaks one language and already ignores anything with subtitles. In order to sell him this big-ass foreign license you paid for you have to make sure his ADHD doesn't make him change the channel because words are appearing on the screen, so you go with a more liberal translation, yes.
It's not pretty, it is what it is.

He'd have stopped watching ages ago then, since his brain would struggle to figure out why all the people in the class are wearing the same clothes.

If every "translator" was like you the only cultural exchange would be via learning the language for yourself.
Imagine every single Bible translation replacing every single pastoral allegory because we don't live in a bronze age pastoral tribal confederation now do we anonymous better fix that right up.
It's obscene and you're a hack. I get hacks have their place but that's what you are.

America was a mistake.

Cope. Khara represents Anno's interests the closest.
>Anno himself didn't directly translate so it's not more accurate!

>watching anything with captions
I'm fucking glad I've moved out of that hell. All translations are garbage since Japanese can never be conveyed 100% in Western language structures.

Being literal and providing the notes necessary to understand the context of the script is the only way to be true to the original. As soon as you stray from that, you're just a poser putting his own interpretation over the original work.

Of course there is a way to translate them 1:1. Words have meanings. When they can have multiple meanings, you make note of this for audiences who care to understand the actual work itself instead of your opinion on what the work is. Where conceptual words are used which have no direct equivalent in the new language, they must be left untranslated and accompanied by notation explaining the concept. The same for figurative language which doesn't have the same effect when translated literally due to differing cultural contexts. The character of the prose should be indicated to the reader through the use of supplementary material highlighting key passages accompanied by explanations of the word choice, rhythm, etc. Ideally, this is done with every passage. After all, a competent translator must make these notes in order to understand the work in the first place.
Anything less than this is just fraud.

>mom why are these Japanese people bowing to their teacher?

Are you saying every single scene that contains something non-American should be cut too?

So is Anno's interests?

Implying mom would have any idea either.

That isn't Netflix subs.

How would you translate this dialogue to be literal but still make sense?

"Batta batta (sound of someone hitting the floor) tear and throw away, tear and throw away these yakuza."

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Literal for subs, liberal for dubs. Any dub that uses literal translation is just a sign of poor scriptwriting. That said, though, I feel Netflix was a little TOO literal with their translation. Shit like "Third Children" is absolutely unacceptable, even if Khara approved it.

Gee wee I guess we should've just translated the Bible literally, seeing as there is no wordplay in it, no sir. Surely nothing bad will come of it.
Ah yes, translators notes. Because you don't live in the one country where a subtitled movie getting the #1 box office spot was a big holy shit moment. Translators notes take so much time and effort they stopped publishing Zetsubou-Sensei cause of them, user. Do you want your favorite manga to stop being published in English too?
You tell me, do you need a subtitle appearing on top saying "TL Note: Japanese people bow in school to their teachers"?

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I'm talking about no translation of on-screen text or episode titles

Retard. Third Children is a codename, it makes perfect sense, and you are an asshat for not understanding that.

>When they can have multiple meanings, you make note of this for audiences who care to understand the actual work itself instead of your opinion on what the work is.

This is unrealistic. You'd end up with a dictionary worth of explanations on just about every line.

No it isn't. It makes no sense. How is it a "codename"? How is it more fitting than "Third Child"?

stuff being absent does not in an way contradict the point that was made about the stuff that was there.

Because it is not a phrase. You are not "a Fourth Child" you are "FOURTH CHILDREN".

That doesn't explain anything.

A codename is just a nickname for a person. How does Fourth Children make sense as a nickname for an individual?

It does though, taking the line "But maybe I can learn to like myself" vs "But maybe I can learn to love myself" for instance, the latter is superior because it better captures Shinji's feelings and the impact of the scene.
I don't think Anno's intent was to undermine the conclusion to the series with that scene.

>Because it is not a phrase. You are not "a Fourth Child" you are "FOURTH CHILDREN".
But I'm user.

Liberal but only if the person doing it actually gives a fuck and can be bothered to be creative. There are too many phrases in Japanese that don't translate cleanly that you're going to have to infer what to make them in English based on the context
Crunchy's work with Jojos recently, and the Ciocolatta fight especially, is what happens when you don't have a single spark of creativity going for you. And that's on top of it being flat out wrong.

Attached: bad translation.png (1596x1310, 3.08M)

Then you are an ESL or literally retarded.
If you are CODENAME: PINKS, you don't correct your codename to PINK, just because it makes grammatical sense in a non naming context.

It's a classification, not a nickname, an officially sanctioned name by NERV. Are the Angels LITERALLY Angels? No, but that's OK, because that's their codename. ____ CHILDREN is the codename as designated by NERV.

The show wasn't about learning to love yourself, it was about liking yourself, incredibly different connotations.

Get in the EVA, user.

>The show wasn't about learning to love yourself
Says who? You? Are you Anno?

Are you trying to hang noodles on my ears?

Can we all just accept that the English language is fucking stupid? I mean seriously, it has like 2 words to describe “love” feelings. I feel bad for translators because they have to deal with this shit.

I don't give a shit about re-published works which are garbage tier because translators are lazy faggots working for greedy kikes. The entire Western side of the industry should collapse and translations return to being something only undertaken by hobbyists who care more about the integrity of the work than reaching an audience. That goes for the speed translating pirate faction only in it for revenue as well.

>The show wasn't about learning to love yourself, it was about liking yourself, incredibly different connotations.
????

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Was Jehu the main character of Genesis D?

Says the original Japanese and the accurate subs. Anno is not nearly narcissistic enough to imply that you need to "Love Yourself". In fact, you can "Love Yourself" without even "Liking Yourself", as seen by the type of person Asuka was attempting to emulate.

You can love yourself without liking yourself. Shitty Narcissists do it all the time.

If it's a codename and not a phrase, why do they use it like a phrase?

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It's called SELF-LOVE not SELF-LIKE you literal retard

Shinji saying he can like himself instead of love himself is pantsu on head retarded. It makes no sense and ruins the severity of the scene.

> I mean seriously, it has like 2 words to describe “love” feelings

Wrong.

thesaurus.com/browse/love?s=t

As free as possible and as close as necessary. Try to convey the meaning, but don't go full retard with the localization.

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>The show wasn't about learning to love yourself
BUT. IT WAS.
Even the ED spells it out for you.
>IN OTHER WORDS, PLEASE BE TRUE.
>IN OTHER WORDS, I LOVE YOU.

Being boastful and prideful is not self-love.

not possible. Japan as a language is formulated completely different from european derived languages.
You can't be literal because there are just functions and meanings that don't translate over at all without sounding stilted
The explicit purpose of a translation is to make it sound more natural to the reader of the given language.
Additionally, a translator that is capable of interpreting Japanese perfectly should also be able to discern how it could best be translated, so being as literal as possible would only serve as a kind of self wank
If you want literal, learn japanese yourself

>thesaurus.com

user, where do I even begin...

>The entire Western side of the industry should collapse and translations return to being something only undertaken by hobbyists who care more about the integrity of the work than reaching an audience.
Surely you started watching anime from a Japanese issue of Shonen Jump that you found at a market and could read instantly as a kid, user. You're right.
No but Drive Like Jehu is my favorite post-hardcore band.

Not just the ed, the whole fucking show:
>IN OTHER WORDS, I LOVE YOU
>I'LL NEVER LOVE AGAIN, MY WORLD IS ENDING, I WISH THAT I COULD TURN BACK TIME...
>EVERYBODY FINDS LOVE IN THE END
But no let's change all those loves to likes because context doesn't matter in translations anymore.

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What you don't like the Master Swordsman Zolo?

I like you
I love you
I value you
I treasure you
I'm infatuated with you
I have a crush on you
I cherish you
I lust for you
I respect you
I'm devoted to you
I'm fond of you
I yearn for you
I adore you
I idolize you
I care for you

>, it has like 2 words to describe “love” feelings
did you even finish middle school?

That's a perfectly valid way to use a classification. She is THE Second Children. There are no other Second Children. For example "The Arbiter" or "The Lieutenant Colonial"

It's called Like yourself not love yourself, retard. You only think it lessons the impact because you're a brainlet.

It certainly is a form of it. It's one way to say "I love myself", Liking yourself is totally different and way more specific.

Irrelevant.

Basically all of your complaints can be boiled down to DIFFERENT BAD EVEN IF IT IS MORE ACCURATE I MISS BEING WRONG

I feel affection for you, user.

Nope. I'm sure you're not even a native speaker.
Synonyms for love
>cherish, adore, long for, enjoy, be fond of, be attached to, worship, treasure, value, prize, fancy, revel in, dote on, venerate, dig, lose one's heart to, savour, cotton to, have a soft spot for,

You begin by reading and understanding why what you said was fucking stupid.

I use this site when I machine translate manga. No one's seemingly noticed yet.

yesjapan.com/YJ6/question/1003/does-suki-mean-like-or-love
>[the Japs] say "I like you" instead of "I love you"
Woah, it's almost like different cultures use words differently!

Are you the nigga who kept making threads on google's image ocr?

Wow it's almost like they went with the word that more directly means what they say and not an extremely multifaceted word like "love"

like this

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That's why "Translator's notes" are useful, because they provide explanation for things that are difficult or impossible to translate.

One could argue that it takes you out of the show. Like, it breaks your immersion. But if you're watching subbed anime to begin with, you probably don't care much about that.

>approaches crush
>I’m infatuated by you
>????

BRAVA! 10/10 translation!

>It's called Like yourself not love yourself
On what fucking planet.
Practice self-love, learn to love yourself, they all use the word love not like.

What point are you even trying to make here

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love and like mean the same thing in the context of appreciating yourself
and that's the crux of translations. English is FAR more context based than Japanese

>But maybe I can learn to dig myself

Speaking of. What are the best machine translators to toss the lines into?

Right now is use google and collinsdictionary as my primary two, but I really want to find a good third choice.

Who is this kisama they keep mentioning?

This one.
>Boy, I sure have realized after this spirit journey, that I really do LIKE MYSELF.

"love myself" can mean SEVERAL different things, INCLUDING like myself, whereas Like myself is incredibly direct and easy to grasp. Good change, no question.

That 90% of the words that you just posted are useless for translating dialogue such as the one from OP.

Are you an idiot? Please read the entire conversation before chiming in.

Wrong. LIke means one thing, Love CAN mean like, but it can also mean many other things.

(You)

No one should care, since machine translation is the future. It just needs better AI in order to improve its understanding of context.

And how many of those would you use in a confession setting user? That is, without looking like a fucking retard.

That's exactly what that means yes. A crush is quite literally a fleeting infatuation
Are you not all right in the head?

What is love?

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>What are the best machine translators to toss the lines into?
You're crazy if you think a machine translator is gonna give you an answer to this.

Go confess to your crush by saying that, user. You’ll look smooth af.

Anime is not real. The Japanese don't even use in daily conversations the language you encounter in anime/manga. So your point is meaningless.

No one says that in English.
Again, it's called self-love, not self-like.
No one ever says they're learning to like themselves.

I think you're seriously misunderstanding what this conversation is about.

The first poster said that there are limited words in English for "love" feelings. There are actually a shitton of words for love feelings depending on the context, because it's a multifaceted emotion and word. But obviously not every fucking synonym is going to be proper in every situation. That's not what was claimed.

>I've had my eyes on you for the longest time Sakura-chan. You're the moest girl at our school. Please go out with me.

> Love CAN mean like, but it can also mean many other things.
Right, that's what i said. In the context of saying "I _____ myself", like and love are interchangeable with no actual loss of meaning or any room for confusion.
Only an autist like you would be daft enough to say "Now when you say you love yourself, what do you mean by this?"

>having a crush
SPOTTED THE OUTSIDER
Get out.

>It just needs better AI in order to improve its understanding of context.
There will never be a perfect machine translator, ever. And if it ever is, a new vernacular will be already coming in so it'll have to relearn shit all over again.

Shinji says neither self love nor self like. He says "Like myself" a different phrase entirely.
>N-nobody says this
Says you.

Is it? Japanese has more homonyms than English, why by definition, makes it more dependant on context to figure out what words and sentences mean.

TRADOS and actually knowing the language

Why? I usually just figure out what the gist of the lines are and just rephrase them to sound good in English while taking what's happening in the manga panels into consideration.

>smooth af.
I'm not underage anymore, unlike you. crushes aren't a thing to me anymore

Bing translator.

Only an autist would say "they are perfectly interchangeable, so i'm going to complain when it is interchanged"

The context is ever so slightly clearer by using "Like" by the way, so the choice was right.

exhentai

tl notes get shit sometimes cause of crap like this but I tend to really enjoy them, and are really the best way to translate some things while keeping it faithful

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english isn't japanese, it can't be converted 1:1 this is why Kojima dialogue is fucked after the first game too

I can't think up of any Japanese examples as I'm only an N4 and haven't done any Japanese translations yet, but put this into a Spanish to English translator and then try to make sense of it:
"Aguas con ese hoyo."

>The context is ever so slightly clearer by using "Like" by the way, so the choice was right.
On the contrary, the context doesn't change at all between them. It's not "clearer" whatsoever. However Love has more impact than Like, and befits the scene more when translated to your native language
Do you understand what translations are now?

WHAT'S SHE DOING TO KAJI'S COCK !!@???

You don’t actually believe this, right?

Is English your first language?

it threw up this: around niggers never relax

Nice try, but I've already found sites that provide translations of expressions that a regular machine translator wouldn't be able to translate.

Wait I thought up a good Japanese example:
"人間は小さい。"
Show me.

translation means translation
if you're going liberal, you're doing a localization
don't be ignorant, be smaht

thesaurus.weblio.jp/

Is great for translating expressions. Just google translate the results.

>They are equal
>EXCEPT NOD REALLY REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Nope. A bathroom is a type of room, to say Shinji went to "The Room" and "The Bathroom" may both be technically correct, but "The Bathroom" helps inform the scene better.

Like is a type of Love, you can say Shinji Loved himself or Liked himself and those are both technically correct, but Like myself informs the scene better.

>B-but it needs to be this "interchangeable" yet also "Higher impact" (Contradiction) line or else I'm gonna sperg out!

Of course, is it yours?

>but Like myself informs the scene better
It doesn't.

Epic LARP.

>I’ve never read anything on the topic of translation theory at all.
translat’d

Alright, if you don't understand basic language or the ending of Evangelion, you wouldn't be the first, just stop responding to me.

Liberal as long as it doesn't change the meaning of the scene.

awful thread just end it

dump anus

Why thank you, I feel strongly about you too!

I machine translate and when I can't figure something out I just reach deep and pull something out of my ass that seems to match what's happening. Most people who read English translations of manga don't understand Japanese anyway, so not like they'd notice. Meanwhile people that do know Japanese just assume I "localized" the line.

The common usage is love myself / self-love
Like myself sounds weird and too weak to sufficiently portray how significant the ending scene is.

You don't seem to understand what "literal translation" means. Languages are systems of enconding information with rules. What you produced is not a valid bit of English, it's garbled nonsense.

The translator's job is to take the information encoded in one representation and encode it in another one. Expecting similarities word for word in languages as radically different as English and Japanese is like expecting a png and jpeg to look similar bit by bit.

you are citing basically the commie of bible translations to make your point.

>16 Sic enim Deus dilexit mundum, ut Filium suum unigenitum daret: ut omnis qui credit in eum, non pereat, sed habeat vitam aeternam.
>16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
these are literal translations used by millions of people. let's see how the message bible does it.
>“This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life.
forget commie this is the 4kidz of bible translations.

pretty much
translations is have brock eat riceballs
localization, aka being liberal, is to turn them into donuts

>but Like myself informs the scene better
It doesn't because no one says they like themselves in that context.

Well i'm gonna air on the side of the objectively more accurate statement rather than some nebulous opinion that "Different scary, less powerful"

Get out more.

I'm not sure that quite counts

you are not translating. you are like an archaeologist who digs up a stone dildo and imagines it was a weapon because it was buried with a helmet.

Everyone in this thread except you can agree that "Learn to love myself"" is said more often than "learn to like myself"
Love in this instance is better because it has impact and is more common in English.

You say like when you like the color red, you use love when you're finally realizing you have a purpose existing in the world.

KJV was written in 1611 dipshit, no one uses begotten, whosoever, believeth anymore
Language change and need to be updated too

Someone post the english dub screencap of Kobayashi's Dragon Maid

I make sure my made up lines match the pictures, so I don't think I've made any mistakes that noticeable.

next level shitposting

>appealing to pleb "majority"
YIKES

not being noticable doesn't mean it's a good translation, it just means you're getting away with bad translation. it's like those dinosaurs we discovered actually had their heads where we thought were their asses because the guy who dug up the bones put them together wrong and no one knew any better to call it out.

I wonder if 2chan bitches about this when they dub over Western shows into their language.

this is only a problem when translating FROM an inferior language
english to japanese is fine since english isn't shite

When the argument is about which phrasing is more common, yes, appealing to the majority is a welcome tactic.

I agree, but no one else was translating it and I thought a less than stellar "translation" was better than nothing.

Being a narcissist does not mean you love yourself; it just means you're vain and self obsessed, which is entirely possible without loving yourself. I'd venture an uneducated guess that most narcissists DON'T love themselves, hence their constant preoccupation with how other people feel about them.

You can be vain and self-centered without being very happy about who you are. In fact it's generally a coping mechanism to deal with that.

>just learn the language it's that easy
Fuck off back to Yea Forums

NOT AN ARGUMENT

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>And the watchman told, saying, He came even unto them, and cometh not again: and the driving is like the driving of Jehu the son of Nimshi; for he driveth furiously.

Not you OP, I'm talking about the retards in this thread.

it's up to the OFFICIAL translators discretion

>english isn't shite
You wish. You have bullshit spelling and grammar rules. In a perfect world, this stupid language wouldn't be the world standard.

Then why are you using it? Why have you learned it in the first place? Stop typing.

it's that easy
amerimutts aside, knowing at least 2 languages is a bare minimum, with 3 languages being the average

Through the dark lord, I'm so fucked up.

>Just because I use it, doesn't mean I can't criticize it

Sorry, but it's the only way to communicate to retards

yeah, I know

how it it even possible to not know at least 2 languages?

No works of culture should ever be produced in this mongoloid language lacking soul.

Nobody asked for your contribution in the first place. Leave.

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So it should get a pass if it's a shitty translation because it's labeled OFFICIAL?

Cry me a river.

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I dunno, ask the americans, they can barely manage learning just one.

this

WHOA

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yea fuck Americans! Im American myself but fuck em yeeehawww

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I hate this attitude because actual translators will look at it and say "this already has an active translation I'm not going to look at it." the strike witches ovas that came out years ago still don't have real subs because everyone thought the mtl was "good enough." there are so many machine translations these days especially for games that I've completely lost confidence in non-official work. there are still niggers on Yea Forums who swear the zero no kiseki translation isn't mtl even though it's complete gibberish.

>there are still niggers on Yea Forums who swear the zero no kiseki translation isn't mtl even though it's complete gibberish.

Gamers just want the bare minimum to understand playing? What else is new?

If something remains untranslated for a certain amount of time it likely means that no real translator has any interest in picking it up. You mention Strike Witches, well the Misfits novels haven't been completed and it's been years. And even though it's been months nobody even started translating the reboot novel of it. Seven Seas is beginning to seem like my remote only hope.

I used to think I enjoyed literal translations, but nowadays I prefer a slight bit of localization. I changed my perspective after I stopped watching anime and moved onto manga, where literal translations are just incomprehensible to follow, especially during text dumps. I don't even mind it if the TL decides to localize a joke, as long as he adds a TL note explaining what the original joke was.

ADV's translation is fine, but if it was something Commie tier then I wouldn't like it. You just need to find a good balance between making it retain the same meaning, but not being stilted.

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Any translation that doesn't include honorifics, that chooses to render all first and second person Japanese pronouns as just "I" or "you" into English instead of leaving them in Japanese, or that makes no effort to preserve the sentence structure of the original text is shitty. A translation that does not do these things is unnecessarily sacrificing meaning for the sake of appealing to normalfags.

>I didn't cringe when watching Gundam IBO
Go away.

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I can't read that much Japanese I'm sorry user.

Not in show content and also not relevant.

>Liberals

Wipe them with FACTS ans LOGIC

>ADV held the same meaning
LMAO

W-WHOA!

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nope

That's why he said as literal as possible, it's a trade-off.

The ADV subs are fine.

Yes? If anything the translation on the left is more accurate than the translation on the right. Translating everything straight from a dictionary like a machine translator isn't good.

>Literal vs Liberal Translation
False contradiction. Bar maybe very short phrases between related languages, you can hardly translate anything literally. However, that does not mean that your translation is "liberal". A good translation will stay as true as possible to the meaning of the entire work not the individual words.

When you grow up in an English-speaking country, the majority of the world learns your language to communicate not just with you, but with each other. Thus the need to know additional languages is not as great.

As an American, I was pretty much forced to learn Spanish as a kid anyway, because my country is currently being invaded by beaners. I stopped speaking it after high school though, because I refuse to accommodate unwanted invaders. Instead I taught myself japanese, because it's actually a cool language and I consume a lot of japanese media and music.

Eat your hamburger Apollo

>literal translations are just incomprehensible to follow,
how does this even make sense? literal doesn't mean illegible. it just means not throwing in slang where it didn't exist before or making up lines like dragon quest translations.

As someone who saw both dubs of 3.0, this post is bullshit. There were noticeable script changes, with the second (released) one being MUCH more literal. And it absolutely was redone, as Funimation and the English VAs have publicly confirmed, and that was the exact reason why the dub premiered in 2013 while the English Blu-Ray didn’t come out until 2015.

>it just means not throwing in slang
Who said anything about slang and overlocalization? I agree that it's shit and most jap->eng video game TLs suffer from it, but that's not really applicable to the OP image.

What was redone? Any examples?

>literal doesn't mean illegible
Most translators seem to view literal as being stilted and awkward. It also reads very dryly in most cases and that's not good for series that are supposed to have dramatic moments.

The other things they changed was rewording stuff like 'four-eyes' to 'four-eyed-crony', nothing significant was actually changed.

They removed the baloney pony

that's because most translators who work on anime shit aren't actually fluent in both languages

Rewording much of the dialogue in the film, even if it was only slight rewording, is a significant change that required significant time to implement!

People who defend and desire liberal subs are literally dubfags.

That's a really good translation.

just because you're paraphrasing stuff, it doesn't mean your translation is "liberal" you mong. I swear most of you dumb baboons don't even know what "liberal" and "literal" translations mean.
Borrowing products from other boards as examples, literal is Persona/modern Yakuza series, while liberal is Trails series and the more extreme ones (fanfiction-tier) are Fire Emblem/Ni no Kuni series

Off the top of my head, at the beginning of the movie the first dub had Asuka call Shinji an “asshole”. The redub changes this to “brat”.

Most of the changes were along these lines, but some of them were more drastic (and sounded worse in English) than others.

>The redub changes this to “brat”.
Ehh. No teen calls other teens 'brats'. Load of bullcrap.

I am. In fact, I'm only not one when the dub VAs just aren't a good fit for the characters, like female Shinji.

Reminder to let Khara know DIRECTLY about your issues with the Netflix release:

khara.co.jp/contact/

IN ORDER FROM TOP TO BOTTOM:

• Problem
• Name
• Company Name
• Department Name
• Prefectures (on this drop menu, select the "Outside Japan" option)
• City
• Street Address
• Phone Number
• E-mail address
• Confirm E-mail address

Messages limited to 400 characters.

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I understand the reasoning for the change: “brat” conveys that this version of Asuka is “grown up” due to the time skip, and specifically demeans Shinji by calling him childish. Academically - like, to someone who understood the English language from STUDYING it more than actually SPEAKING it - it makes sense. As actual spoken dialogue in a movie, it lacks impact, like changing “I’m so fucked up” to “lowest of the low”.

The one where the translation says what the character says, without putting words into that character's mouth, while still sounding intelligible. Preferably without localized humor.

Literal = boring, dry dialogue

stupid burgers

Attached: localizations.png (1609x797, 90K)

In that case neither dub is acceptable. One is too localized while the other has too many awkward lines.

> some words don’t have exact equivalents in the target language so you should leave them untranslated
Imagine if professional translators in literally any field except weeb media felt like that lmao

>hich one does Yea Forums prefer in their anime subs/dubs?
Subs are just romanji. Top of screen filled with TL notes.

He does have kind of a point though, in that there's no cultural equivalency for honorifics.

Tone of voice does it pretty well, we don't need honorifics to codify our relationships as we talk to people. We just fucking talk to people and figure it out.

Tone of voice doesn't indicate any of the 5 things he claims to serve as the purpose of honorifics.

Liberal while maintaining the "spirit" or general intention of the original, with translation notes if needed
Pic not related

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>turning a desperate plea to fix things into a heavy-handed confession of love
yikes

Ever heard of titles? It's not a direct equivalent, but it's close.

>The point is that Kaworu showed Shinji was he desperately wanted, which was love - no matter what kind of love it was that you want to argue. And that's why Kaworu's death hit him so hard. I think translating it to like lessens the impact and therefore makes Shinji's reaction to Kaworu's death out-there and exaggerated.
This. Minimizing it solely to "haha GAY" dismisses the issue at hand to an extent, but minimizing to friendship and merely "liking" one another ignores it altogether

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realia_(translation)

The correct order of priorities are:
1. Maintaining the spirit of the original.
2. Sounding natural.
3. Maintaining the literal meaning of the original.

Despite being the lowest priority, #3 is still important.

Literal unless the literal wouldn't actually make sense (such as idioms, euphemisms, etc.), in which case the English equivalent should be used.

My personal stance on honorifics is just put context into thought.

If the series takes place in Japan or heavily Japan-based setting, go ahead and leave them in because using them is part of the Japanese culture, and trying to translate them to an "equivalent" English honorific would sound unnatural.

Series takes place in modern America? Probably just drop the honorifics entirely. Ye Olde Western Fantasy setting? Things like Lord/Lady Sir/Madame work there so you can use those translations fine. Military setting? Rank/Given name/Surname can be used to show familiarity or amount of respect.

user please you're making me blush

「I NEED YOU」

You should learn to love yourself, user.

You guys shouldn't be complaining, they used memes on the portuguese translation

What is the great autist's opinion?

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Liberal translation doesn't strictly equate to localization.

youtube.com/watch?v=-0ciUssLpwo

there are zero written languages that are so inflexible.
You're just a terrible writer. Stop projecting your talentlessness on languages you EOP piece of shit.

Except they do, in basically every language except English. For some reason English translators feel the need to heavily localize everything. Did you know that CR doesn't bother localizing in any language except English? I was using Erai-Raws for a couple shows this season and accidentally switched to German subtitles and found out they had the honorifics left in, they also used correct Japanese name order. This was also the case with Portuguese, Italian, and Spanish subtitles. It's pretty much only English speakers who think translation = localization of everything.

Liberal, unless the work benefits from a more literal translation. Even in those literal cases don't use terms that actively work against the language being translated into. (Eva"s Children thing for example.)

I need the full list of his misdeeds.

>Well i'm gonna air on the side of the objectively more accurate statement
>air
That's enough, ESL-kun.

The also google translated the Italian version

Can we now proclaim with no trace of hesitation that, yes, CR saved anime ?

This is the correct way to do it, unfortunately Yea Forums is populated by autists who hate context-driven solutions and demand everything to follow an absolute logical standard.

He's not a translator so his opinions are no more relevant than the average user's.

See
I might be an autist but the older one just makes no fucking sense in my head.

I want to kill that translator

English speakers?
user, it's loser ass english major elitist american translators who have a wild motherfucking hair up their ass about this shit.

The fantranslators were doing just fine with translating this stuff and even understood the context enough to localize jokes to something just as funny to a large audience or to a small audience of geeks who would be the only ones who would be into it.

Those cocksuckers even localized Nakama.
Why would the localize it instead of just leaving it as it is like every single translator out there?
Because they are fucking english elitist fucking losers that's why.

>nakama
nothisshitagain

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Come on user, he's keeping things "exciting," haha

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both are fine as long as the characters voice isnt modified or altered.

The literal. I don't wanna hear some translator or editors opinion on what is the western English equivalent of what they're saying, I just wanna be able to tell exactly what they're saying in English.

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>I just wanna be able to tell exactly what they're saying in English.
That's impossible given how Japanese is often phrased.

It's best not to use translation notes. You don't want to force the viewer to have their eyes dart up and down the screen in order to read both the dialogue and translation notes. Localization isn't just about translating. You also have to keep things convenience for your target audience. Subtitles should also, ideally, be as brief as possible in so that slower readers don't have to pause the video to read everything. Ruining the flow of the show is unacceptable.

I prefer a conservative translation.

Just as the master Anno, always intended.

Imagine being a translator for Joshiraku, Hoozuki no Reitetsu, Monogatari or any other anime that heavily relies on Japanese culture and figures of speech.

A conservative translation is a reasonable request, but people who most likely don't know Japanese think exact translations are possible when in many cases they aren't without the text not making any sense. It's even normal for Japanese sentences to omit part of what the sentence would contain in English.

There are also very vague sayings in Japanese that can have a multitude of meanings and are heavily context dependent. In fact, even with context certain lines can have several entirely different meanings. There will always be some interpretation going on when it comes to translations.

joshiraku's TL notes are actually still up at notredrevie.ws and they're pretty interesting

Ladies and Gentleman
I give you one of the english elitist cocksuckers who killed anime for the entire english speaking western market.

Let's give them a hand.

(Kisama)

It's kind of a problem, yeah. I guess what you could do is make the TL notes optional or something. Thing is if you have TL notes constantly, it could force some people to pause the video just to read it. Subtitles in themselves are already a compromise, so TL notes are just plain obnoxious.

Isn't the western market Cartoon Network and Viz media?

Hiro should implement it for April the 1st.

and yet makes perfect sense literally.

Depends on the line.

Translate どこの　誰にも when the character says that he's sick of his mother, sick of working at his current job, and wants to move to a new city.

>Somebody once asked could I spare some change for gas?
>I need to get myself away from this place
>I said yep what a concept
>I could use a little fuel myself
>And we could all use a little change

ITT: herkz
Has everyone already forgotten the Eoten Manifesto?
pastebin.com/7ieHykVh

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>I have tried to be faithful to the original source material
>but I also intentionally made things ambiguous because it's more exciting

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And I should probably mention that it doesn't mean 'To anyone anywhere'.

This is true, BUT. Many people who say this have such lax standards that sometimes I wonder "what the fuck doesn't count as preserving the original mood and meaning?"

To use Dragon Quest as an example

>Japanese version
>Enemy names being puns are a recurring thing, though this probably doesn't account for more than 10 percent of any given game's bestiary
>Occasional puns for spell names and important character names; you could probably count such instances on one hand
>Dungeon and town names are normal
>Dialogue is normal. NPCs speak like normal human beings, serious scenes are played straight.

>English localizations
>The name of roughly 80 percent of the enemies are puns
>Almost all NPC names are puns
>Dungeon names and town names are puns
>Every second or third line of dialogue has a pun or a cheesy joke

Dragon Quest fans tend to counter anyone who insults the localization style with "but the original games were the exact same way!!!" even though that's patently untrue, and give the tired old line about how translations are simply supposed to preserve the original intent and meaning without being overly wooden... while defending translations that barely have a single god damn thing to do with the original, and thus don't "preserve" much of anything at all.

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It wasn't just Maidragon.

>Prison School
A character makes a comment to another character about not being a "Gamergate creep"

>Maidragon
A character complains about "Patriarchal societal norms"

>Interviews With Monster Girls
A character is called a "social justice warrior" for standing up to bullies for another girl.

>Hajimete no Gyaru
Rants about guys being misogynists

For Funimation's dub scriptwriters, "liberal" apparently means "shove as much out-of-character hamfisted political garbage in as possible". I'd rather take a dry and uninteresting script over something so blatantly made-up.

>It's even normal for Japanese sentences to omit part of what the sentence would contain in English.
why do people keep bringing this up like it means anything? do they think that a literal translation of english to a language with no definite article would leave the word "the" untranslated?

Retards will always pick liberal garbage, people that have enough brain cells will always seek for not butchered translation or watch it raw.
That's really simple. Localization is made for literal idiots and that's the root definition of it. Localization is a form of censorship as well.

>would leave the word "the" untranslated?
Japanese can go further than that.

You're always in tatters vs. You always fight until your in tatters.

This. Burgers are the most ignorant and xenophobic society in this world.

You're an idiot. Netflix subs are a cancer. Always. They are literal in places where they shouldn't be and liberal or even completely americanized in places where they should stay as as close as possible to original.

LOL

Not gonna read this thread entirely before posting, but I want to point out something a lot of modern subs forget:

Subs that can fit on one line of text are better than subs that can fit on two. People want to watch the anime and just get the general feeling of what's being imparted, rather than told the meaning of every word uttered in Japanese.

OP's pic is a clear example of saying too much of no extra value.

I always end up seeking your mom to fuck her raw

Literal translations are only good for scholarly research, and even then only actually useful when weighed against various other good translations. If you want literal intended meaning, learn the original language. There's no way to get it otherwise.

This. The translation guidelines for our national TV station even explicitly says to keep shit as concise as possible

This

Fuck off

Literally kill yourself

No they don't. Liberalfags have no brains.

This.

Here we go again. Made up meme image from subs that doesn't exist.

It's correct as fuck. This is what he said and if you actually watched this scene, you would know what is he talking about. Of course they could've rephrase it to "people should stay dead when they were killed" or something like this, but it isn't wrong as it is at all.

Does not compute.

the more literal the better, you can lose important artistic nuances if you start watering things down to accommodate low level readers

Liberal.

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Kill yourself. Failed novelists have no voice.

I don't see the problem with your example. Would you prefer a wooden word-for-word translation?

You're an idiot.

Expand on the original user's point for me then.

Literal, I want to do the interpreting, I don't want the translator to give me what he thinks they mean.

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Literal. I don't know how much you know of Japanese honor and culture (I'm an expert) but its considered one of the greatest insults when these lowly translators "reimagine" a work to fit their own desires.

TL Note : this image is a meme made by cartelfags. It doesn't exist.

ok

If he did that then there'd be a ton of lines that wouldn't make sense.

I can read Japanese, but I wouldn't want to translate it due to how the lines just wouldn't be the same in English no matter what.

A literal translation is not a translation. A translation should convey what the audience is intended to understand, not just the syllables coming out of the character's mouth.

No, he is meant to talk in a romantic tone, which is why Asuka is rejecting him like that in the first place. It wasn't just a generic plea for help, but an insincere confession. The new translation works much better.

Here's a question for everyone who wants a literal translation. What about when a character is supposed to be hard to understand and has a thick accent? Should they be very hard for the reader to understand on purpose in your literal translation?

You just described average idiot who is using services like Netflix.

>What you shouldn't do, though, is start writing your own script. If you have your own script ideas, then go write your own story.
Writing your own script works once every blue moon.
youtube.com/watch?v=bXiJYcK4-GU

fuck off rosetta stone casul, if people are too stupid to understand that's their business

Yes.

Crunchyroll with subs like Hitoribocchi had is literally saving the subs.
Hitoribocchi subs should be an example for any manga and anime publisher.

People arguing for literal translations are the ones who don't actually know Japanese but want to feel satisfied because they could connect a word read on screen to something they heard said by a character.

They feel smarter because of this. It's self-fellatio.

Crunchyroll subs are always too focused on localization, not translation

T. Herkz

Why would a company trying to make money do something that would frustrate viewers like that? And even then they'd screw it up somehow by making the character sound like Boomhauer from King of the Hill.

Its a fine balance to walk. On the one hand you have to respect the authorial intent. On the other you don't want to alienate your viewers. I don't have a good answer.

Translations are the least offensive kind of fan fiction. Necessary, authorized, but still mere imitations of the original work. That's why they're so polarizing.

>but ends up making scenes emotionless/robotic in comparison to previous translations.
>because characters were vibrant wellsprings of emotion originally
Literal is better, case in point. OP is an anime where everyone acts like robots 90% of the time and screaming autists the rest, it suits the characters to come across as robots in their dialogue since that's how they're portrayed.

This is the real reason people want honorifics in most cases. It's about the only words they can recognize.

People who only know a few words of a language are the real posers, since they don't know it but cling to the tiny bit they do in order to feel special.

Crunchy is literally the only anime publisher with watchable subs. Sometimes they are hiring some part time idiots from groups like commie, GJM or other trash, but usually their subs are the only watchable official subs.
And watch Bocchi, then you'll know what I mean. It was perfect.

He probably doesn't even like Chomper.

>Unfortunate

Honorifics should be treated as a part of the name. Exactly like it's in Korean or Chinese media translations. It's rare to see ommited honorifics even in local TV. They are just treating it as a part of their names. People who know what they mean are satisfied and people who don't give a fuck just don't give a fuck.
I don't understand why only Japanese is treated differently.
Same with name order reversal. It's even more retarded than cutting of the honorifics.

please respond

Just look on modern Yea Forums or twitter. Everyone says "NANI ?", kisama or baka to a silly degree because they feel in-the-know.

As someone who has spent a significant portion of his life living in Japan yet still occasionally watches subtitled media, I'll say there's nothing more annoying than a literal translation being ever so slightly off from how I'd literally translate it. It just pulls me out of whatever I'm watching. I much rather watch something liberal that conveys the meaning, rather than something produced by someone with a TOEIC score of 750.

Unfortunate is way better choice than loser. And it fits all contexts and scenes perfectly unlike to loser.

that was LIBERAL, not liberal

Ya know even fucking Korra was afraid to show gay people kissing, but that would be the solution to all this dumbass subtext argument.

Show the gays kissing.

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No. This si what localization and liberal transaltion mean. It's always damaging the media because that's the definition of localization. Localization = for idiots.

IIRC Koreans and Japanese use honorifics, Chinese use pronouns

Hey American

It makes perfect sense why they respect China then. It's the year 2019, so gotta use the proper pronouns.

No one respects a language that sounds like screaming autists at a psyche ward.

Literal because liberal translations are turning it into something completely different from the original's intent.

Watch you fags, in a few years everything is gonna be translated into non binary pronouns use non offensive words. They're already doing it with spanish, when the entire language is based off masculine and feminine speech.

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>Unfortunate is way better choice than loser.
It isn't. It only works when Nako says "how unfortunate", but in any other context it sounds terrible and barely conveys the idea.

Fansubbers do a better job than professionals 99.99% of the time
Not just translation but also typesetting which is virtually inexistent in professional subs

So after really nice Persona 5 TL Atlus is going shit again?

Don't worry, the top autists will use Adobe Audioshop to fix any changed lines.

>Why would a company trying to make money do something that would frustrate viewers like that?
You'd have to ask the company that made the original that way.
Boomhauer is a good example. Middle aged men from Texas can be quite taciturn. Boomhauer's stream of consciousness mumbling bridges the dead air without sounding like normal dialogue. He's kind of a comedy version of the chorus from a Greek play.
King of the Hill's scripts are very symbolic, and none of it really matters to the plot until Hank says god dang it about something. In a different show where every line of dialogue is important, Boomhauer would be a terribly annoying character.
Interestingly, in the Japanese dub Boomhauer talks at a more normal speed:
youtube.com/watch?v=2GSMGl9P1D8
Though he's still hard to understand.

>fansubbers do better job than professionals
Citation needed

That's your opinion. Unfortunate all the way.

These times are a thing of the past. Name 1 group except Nii-sama, SNSBu or some single anons which is doing watchable subs nowadays.

Anitoki and Melodysubs

I've also seen translations that try to add nuance when the original work didn't really have any. Take for example a generic harem isekai that tries to give its cast deep dialogue in order to make the work seem higher brow than it is.

Never heard about them. What are they translating?

Indo subs don't really count here.

Western shows are all shit so only westaboo retards care about them.

>Gatsu

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I miss the 90's dubs and translation.
That shit was fun.

To add some more fuel to the fire: go watch a Hollywood movie that includes a second, subtitled language. Monsieur. Senorita. Herr. Nobody bat's an eye that it's untranslated and italicized. Everyone thinks it's fucking fine except fucking anime translators.

Anons what's a good way to learn japanese?
I have Kana memorized and I've been using Tae Kim's guide and Jisho to help with simple words and sentence structure
I recently learned about jouyou kanji and how the characters are made up of radicals
Should I use something like WaniKani, KanjiDamage, or RTK? Does anyone have experience with these?

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This one still fucking persists and I hate it so much. Even worse than Horo the Wolf.

>GJM
Uber trash
>Commie
Uber trash
>DDY
Trash with some exemptions. Anyway, they made meme subs track as default track so it's automatically making them as retarded as commie. 2nd sub track was still way worse than official subs
>chyuu
Trash
>vivid
Trash
>Asenshi
Trash

>Everyone thinks it's fucking fine except fucking anime translators
Not good anime translators, though.

>garbage westaboo series get accurate translations
>patrician niche nip series get rewrites and fan fiction tier translations
Why does it work out this way? You would think it would be the opposite with who these series are pandering to.

T. Herkz.

One bit of advice: hand-write characters as you learn them. Not hundreds of times or anything, and you don't have to do it for every kanji. But those radicals are extremely important, and writing characters containing them is a surefire way to learn them by heart.

Read the OP of DJT on /jp/.

They are all equivalents for existing western honorifics. If you're comparing it to Asian honorifics, you're literally retarded.

Yeah, I started learning stroke order with kana and realized how important writing by hand can be.
Weird, I checked /jp/ for a thread like that last night on my phone but completely missed it. Thanks user

Yes, you could literally translate them 1:1 and lose literally- LITERALLY literally- nothing at all, and it's still acceptable not to do that and leave them in. If you think your translation needs to be scrubbed clean just because one person in the world doesn't know what it means then you should probably be translating textbooks.

Onii-chan
Onii-san
Onii-sama
Onii
Aniki
Aniue

These all mean older brother. Depends on context and who is using it they have slightly different undertone.
Now "translate" it as CharacterName like every dub company and retarded services like Netflix are doing and still think it's okay.
Don't forget to kill yourself afterwards.

>tfw you're actually disappointed Atlus is fucking up the MtF Ronald McDonald in your preferred MGTOW Tetris game

>Now "translate" it as CharacterName like every dub company and retarded services like Netflix are doing and still think it's okay.
Fucking hate this shit so much, I've even seen it with Sensei too

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That's not a trap?
Dropped like a hot potato

Its unnatural in the west for a brother/sister to call each other brother/sister constantly.
This is fine localization.

It's not really clear, but what is clear is that Eric"a" was a normal dude in highschool. Maybe not a normalfag, but an actual man. Trap Erica would be hot af, but it's not how I read the character, considering that the young kid fucks it at the end of the game. There was no mention of lights on/off, front hole or back hole, or it any additional lubricant was required/distributed.

even if that were the case you shouldn't do it when I can fucking HEAR the motherfucker say a different word

As I said, kill yourself.
By the fucking way.
Japanese series about Japanese people in Japan. Why the fuck retarded American simpletons are unable to understand that people in Japan are referring to each other differently? Is it really beyond of your little brains capability?
What the fuck is unnatural?

So it's fine to do in manga then since you can't see the original text on the page?

I wouldn't appreciate it if I knew it was being changed, but I'd be less likely to notice as opposed to getting both simultaneously with anime.

Stop asking retarded questions. It's obvious that it's not okay and anyone who is doing something likes this with translation deserves to die from atomic bomb strike.

What if the anime isn't set in Japan and is an isekai series? Why would people from not-medieval England be using Japanese terms?

Because medieval England is big on the whole hierarchy thing. I dunno.

There's is no "what if". It's Japanese series made by Japanese people and writers. Everthing is soaked with thier culture and tropes. And almost every isekai series is based on Japanese culture anyway (sometimes with different setting but it's still only location).

Or a series like Carole and Tuesday that's set in space. Do you really want to see people clearly based on Americans calling each other onee-chan and oji-chan?

>Everthing is soaked with thier culture and tropes.
Except when the author is a huge westaboo.

Why does every TL thread have to devolve into some debate about honorifics?

Do you address your boss the same way as you do your drinking buddy? Even "egalitarian" burgers still have a concept of seniority.

If Japanese writers want to simulate western setting, they aren't using Japanese honorifics and terms.
Also, if western media is translated into Japanese, it's rare to see Japanese honorifics in their translations. They aren't using Surname Name order too, but they are writing names as it was in original work.
I don't know, maybe Japanese people are generally more smart and that's why they are able to understand that Western people have their own quirks.

Because people who don't know any other Japanese have no other leg to stand on when talking about how translations "should" be.

anata
kimi
omae
kisama
otaku

These all mean you. Depends on context and who is using it they have slightly different undertone.
Now "translate" it as (you) like every dub company and retarded services like Netflix are doing and still think it's okay.
Don't forget to kill yourself afterwards.

We have only seen 2 directors like this which are Kojima and Watanabe.

Series can be westaboo, authors may or may not be they could just be pandering to those retards because they think they’ll get lots of money from them.

>Yes, Mr. Smith, I'll get right on that.

>Hey, Toby, we on for drinks tonight? No, I don't want you to bring Yolanda with you. That bitch be crazy.

but people translate kisama as 'you bastard', not 'you'

It's simple. If subs have honorifics, you can tell that the rest will be done right too. And it's true in almost all cases.
When subs have honorifics ripped out or even worse - localized, it's almost clear that the rest of TL will be nothing but garbage.

This normalfag politically correct rainbow trash with garbage westaboo character design shouldn't be even consider as anime in the first place.

T. Herkz.

There are plenty of impolite ways to refer to someone in Japanese. Sometimes they can just be teasing a close friend, but just going 'you bastard' all the time when intended to be an insult is just repetitive.

Nice to know. So now when I machine translate manga I can just leave the honorifics in and people will assume I did a great job.

>imagine being so retarded

literal in subs and slightly liberal in dubs.