Post unpopular dragon ball opinions

In that case, the series should have ended with Freeza's defeat and Goku maybe dying on Namek.

"Humans" special ability should have been the ability to learn the greatest variety of fighting/ki attacks. A jack of all trades race, but master of none.

I don't see why the series has to end there though. The series can continue with the humans and gohan has the leader.

I'd argue Vegeta is the only character with actual development throughout the entire series

This. It's no wonder that tecniques like the kienzan, taiyoken and the sokidan come from humans

And piccolo?

An alien with a freaking power level of 120,000,000. A bunch of robots made in a cave shouldn't be that strong

GT isn't nearly as bad as it's hyped up to be, in fact it's genuinely good in places.

It was. But at what cost? All the character of vegeta becomes retarded in the cell arc and half of the things that happen in that arc are his fault

People mostly shit on gt because it was boring. Outside of that though, it's not that bad. People that shit on gt but like super are utterly retarded to be honest

There should either be a hard reset on powerlevel or some kind of rebalancing. You have the super dragon balls and you have the omni-king, they could figure it out.ainly I just want it all to not depend on the saiyans. I'd even accept Bulma doing some research on Vegeta or Goku trying to figure out how they're so strong so she could make some kind of injection for the other Z Fighters that increases their power level.

Honestly, the only way i can find for them to fix power levels is to reboot the whole franchise and fix all the fuck ups that toriyama made in the story. Of course, that it's never going to happen but one can dream

Future Trunks and Vegeta both get the most development out of all the characters in Z, which is depressing when you consider that Future Trunks was only featured in one arc.

The problem with GT is that it's not as bad as people think it is, but it is still exceedingly mediocre at best, bad at worst. It did some cool things but it did many more awful things.

What kind of character development did trunks get?

>After being killed by frieza vegeta should have stayed dead.
I agree but I don't know how unpopular of an opinion this is. He was better as a villain/anti-hero.

>His character arc (getting revenge on frieza)
Now this is what I disagree on.
His character arc wasn't to get revenge on Freeza. That was just some shit the dub added.
He just wanted to surpass Freeza and be the strongest and immortal.

Broly is a shit.

It wasn't. It was cringe.

even without taking the dub into account vegeta begged to goku to avenge the saiyans. Though toriyama as always been inconsistent in vegeta pride about the saiyan race. Vegeta first talks about how powerful saiyans are but later says that he didn't give a shit if the whole planet died

Cell Arc should have happened before the Frieza arc
Androids built on earth should not be stronger than the emperor of the universe and the super saiyan. Especially when they were built to kill a Goku with a powerlevel of sub-1000. Do you understand how overkill 16, 17, and 18 are? And this is just me but Frieza's army is way weaker than they should be. The story also tries to dump the leadership role on Gohan out of nowhere. I think SS Goku dying on Namek is a better way to do that.

Vegetto in his candy from beating the shit out of Super Buu was the only good thing about the Buu saga.

It's not character development. Vegeta is a completely different character from the Saiyan/Namek days.
Toriyama ruined his character by making him obsessed with Kakarrot after the Freeza saga and he never recovered from that.

>Dragon Ball Kai image
Kill yourself you zoomer trash

dilate

>Especially when they were built to kill a Goku with a powerlevel of sub-1000
Now that you mention it, it's funny how the last battle that dr gero recorded was against goku vs vegeta, both of them with a power level between 8,000 and 18,000 and even then gero ended up making androids even stronger than a super saiyan

BS dude, his arrogance leading to Cell's perfect form was a solid twist and his fall driven by his desire to best Goku and his subsequent sacrifice was the best part of the Buu arc.

He's a more interesting protagonist than Goku, I just wish they'd let him get a W for a change. Goku actually going down for real and Vegeta using his brains to outwit a stronger opponent would be a great change of pace for the series.

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This should have been the main supporting cast throughout the series and Yajirobe should have joined the other Dragon Team in the Saiyan fight along with going with Krillin and Gohan in Namek. I felt he could have been a good foil to Krillin akin to Yamcha and Tenshinhan.

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Every single one of Dragonball's potential endings have been the same except for the potential "dies with Frieza" and "gohan no gaiden"
Every other ending is this
>goku beats the bad
>but doesn't kill the bad
>bad's still out there, a rival to keep him sharp
>goku will keep fighing
>*end card*
It's all so tiresome.

This. Death has become so meaningless in DB Universe at this point that his sacrifice doesnt account for shit, both figuratively and literally (even without a reset button we still got confirmation of the afterlife so if you die protecting earth you KNOW that what you are doing is going to be rewarded one way or another). Its Jigoku Shōjo all over again: if you get the doll then you KNOW for a fact there is an afterlife, people are actually hold accountable for what they did in life and are punished for all eternity in Hell, so why the fuck would you sacrifice your immortal soul just to get even with some douchbag?

It's kinda complex. I think most people misunderstand Vegeta's character.
He doesn't care that his race/planet got destroyed but he's still proud to be a Saiyan and his primary motivation as one who is the prince of the Saiyans(a warrior race) he wants to be the strongest person in the universe.
Killing Freeza is a secondary motivation. He wants to kill Freeza to prove that Saiyans are the strongest not to avenge his race.

Anime adaptation ruined this too. In the anime he seems to pathetic while crying and begging to Goku while in pic related(the manga) he doesn't seem as pathetic.

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I think it was cringe because Vegeta being a good guy in general is cringe.
He went to shit after Namek.

He just doesn't work as anything other than Villain/Anti-hero.

>his arrogance leading to Cell's perfect form was a retarted twist
FTFY

I like the Faulconer score and generally prefer it to the original score, with the one big exception being Gohan going SSJ2 where I do think Faulconer really failed to make that moment stand out as significantly as it's supposed to.

I don't think Linda Young did a bad job as Frieza. It's a fair criticism that her granny voice certainly wasn't true to the original spirit to the character, but think her performance gives Frieza a different, more openly sadistic characterization that I kind of like. Like the Nakao and Ayres do Frieza in a way where it's a villain who's pretending to be polite to lower people's guards whereas Young did Frieza in a way where it's a villain with only the absolute thinnest veneer of politeness and he knows you know it's a veneer and he's just doing it to fuck with you if that makes any sense.

cont

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Toriyama wanted Yajirobe to be part of the main cast but his editor didn't liked him.

>his arrogance leading to Cell's perfect form was a solid twist
You can't be serious?
It was the laziest writing ever.

The localized script for the Bardock special was heavily changed even by Funimation's standards for the time and cringey licensed music aside, I think I like it better that way. One of my favorite changes was how they had the psychic alien guy who gives Bardock his powers a bigger role. In the Japanese version, Bardock only ever has flashbacks to what the alien says before he dies, but in the American version the alien has like left a part of his consciousness behind in Badrdock's head so that he can taunt Bardock from beyond the grave during his visions of seeing the Saiyans get wiped out. Bardock also has more of a character arc in the dub, he starts off as an unrepentant killer saiyan like in the Japanese version but over the course of the dub seeing his own demise coming kind of changes his outlook and by the end of it he wants to kill Frieza not just for himself but out of repentance for what he and the other saiyans have done under Frieza's orders. In the end it's too late for him to redeem himself as the alien guy has been telling him the whole time, but he dies knowing that he get it though his son, born without his fathers sins. In the Japanese version of course he goes through no such epiphany and only wants to kill Frieza out of revenge. Maybe it's more cliche and moralistic in the American version but I don't mind it, just as I don't mind the dub's generally more heroic characterization of Goku. Call me a pleb but I like the idea of Goku being kind of a moralfag instead of a sociopathic retard who happens to like fighting villains.

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I wonder if the Android arc would have been salvageable if Toriyama went with his original plan of having 19 and 20 being the only villains of the arc?
God know it would have been better that with that bitch 18 ruining Krillin forever but...

Torishima had to put his nose in...

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I won't even ask for a source because I like that fat bastard so much I'll believe it given how much the editors meddled with Dragon Ball.

>BS dude, his arrogance leading to Cell's perfect form was a solid twist and his fall driven by his desire to best Goku and his subsequent sacrifice was the best part of the Buu arc.
While i can agree on the buu part i don't see how vegeta causing cell perfection does any good to his character. Outside of his son trying to stop him what vegeta did his never bringed again. That's my whole problem with vegeta in this arc really. He is the one that causes most fuck ups but the characters never do anything about it. It's not like if they can stop him but nobody mentions vegeta has the one that makes the situation even worst. In fact, even after training with trunks one whole year he still tries to attack him and it wasn't until the cell games that vegeta suddenly loved trunks

These are popular opinions, just not in here.
Go back to Gamefaqs or whatever normalfag board.

The final of dragon ball z it's not like that though

He's 100% bullshitting.

>These are popular opinions, just not in here.
Yeah that's why I posted them here.

Normals aren't even aware of the Bardock script changes though.

Buu reincarnated as Uub so you're wrong.

>Every single one of Dragonball's potential endings have been the same except for the potential "dies with Frieza" and "gohan no gaiden"
Dragon Ball was originally planned to end with the Pilaf arc when they first find the Dragon Balls.

It should have ended with Vegta being revived, but being the one to deal the final blow to Freeza after Goku spares him. Then Namek explodes with both Vegeta and Freeza on it and neither are ever seen again.

Okay i accept it but i always liked the fact of goku being a master and teaching someone his tecniques and stuff

Vegeta should've stayed dead on Namek
Super Saiyan should have stopped at 2
Super Saiyan 2 should have just been referred to as Super Saiyan grade five
Buu shouldn't have had his fat, "pure evil," or kid forms, he should have been "Super Buu" from the start
The humans and Android 18 shouldn't have stopped training
Dead Zone and World's Strongest should be canon and take place before the Saiyan saga
Goku should've gotten with Bulma instead of Chi-Chi
Zamasu should have taken place in U7, cut Goku Black, and have him be a new apprentice to Shin, who is trying to rebuild the Kais again
Non-Namekian fusion shouldn't have been introduced
I like Caulifla, but do still think she was handled terribly
Goten shouldn't have been a thing, same with Bra (or Bulla) and Marron (Krillin and 18's daughter)
Piccolo should have stayed as Goku's main rival throughout the series
Uub shouldn't have been some random Indian kid
Faulconer score is okay, the Japanese score is okay
Piccolo should have taken Chi-Chi as the pride to his "demonic" slug prince

Dragon Ball should have ended with Namek really.
Everything after that was bad.

No

I agree with you, but at the same time I don't. The big issue with Vegeta "winning" is that he's established to be a villain, and having the villain win a shonen like DBZ is unheard of. Once Vegeta is the sole Super Saiyan, what happens? He conquers Earth and reproduces with humans to revive his race?

After Freeza, Dragon Ball wasn't even Dragon Ball anymore.
Androids/Cell don't even give a shit about the Dragon Balls and the series becomes about Goku an co. fighting threatening aliens and not much more.

Prove me wrong. You can't.

>Once Vegeta is the sole Super Saiyan, what happens?
He goes to search for Earth's Dragon Balls to become immortal.
This is what he logically should have done after Namek Saga when he went to Earth but his character is suddenly changed into him becoming obsessed with surpassing Goku.

>Uub shouldn't have been some random Indian kid
He is the rencarnation of buu though

>Androids/Cell don't even give a shit about the Dragon Balls
So?
>the series becomes about Goku an co. fighting threatening aliens and not much more.
that's literally what happens in both the King Piccolo, Piccolo Jr., Saiyan and Frieza sagas when you boil them down to it. Not my fault you need every villain to be looking for the Dragon Balls. If that was the case, it'd be redundant even faster than you're already claiming it to be.
Don't reply to me. You've been thoroughly BTFO.

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>He is the rencarnation of buu though
Yeah I know, he should be a weird humanoid majin, not someone who looks like a direct descendant of Nam.

Dragon Ball was better as a gag series, the minute it took itself seriously was when the series started to go downhill.

Go read Dr. Slump

>So?
It defeats the entire point of the series.
Up until that Freeza the series was based around the villain searching for the Dragon Balls to become immortal(or in some odd cases...General Red wanting to be tall) but starting with Cell the Dragon Balls are put in the backburner.
>hat's literally what happens in both the King Piccolo, Piccolo Jr., Saiyan and Frieza sagas when you boil them down to it.
Wrong.
King Piccolo was after the Dragon Balls and he got his wish(Eternal Youth because he thought he was the strongest and nobody could ever defeat him and then he fucking killed Shenron when he was done with the wish)
Saiyan saga: Vegeta and Nappa want the Dragon Balls for Immortality so they can fight forever(also threaten to destroy Earth after they're done with finding them). Raditz arc is just an excuse to make Goku an Alien.
Freeza wants them for immortality as well.

Piccolo Jr. is the only one that doesn't look for the Dragon Balls and just wants revenge on Goku which is justified because of his past history.

have sex

Making Goku and Piccolo aliens is stupid, Goku was a mystic monkey boy and Piccolo was a demon, fantasy and sci-fi shouldn't be mixed

To be honest, dragon ball has since always a problem with the dragon balls being relevant. Even more if you take into account the whole year long gap between using them. If i was toriyama i would try to make dragon balls more relevant and without the one year long gap rule in them

That's what a rencarnation is though. Your soul being in a body that is not the one you had in your past life

Here's an unpopular but true opinion, Dragon Ball was never good, other shonen that has been released since then has surpassed it, the only reason it's still relevant is because of nostalgia, without that Dragon Ball would have nothing.

DB should've ended here. The galactic overlord of the universe defeated, but at the cost of Goku's life.

Not an unpopular opinion on Yea Forums, but it is in general so I think it counts.

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The original dragon ball is pretty good though. Even the first two arcs from z are good. Until the androids come and everything goes to shit

>in general
No offense but even in the normiest places people pretty much agreed that dragon ball should have ended there

Dragon Ball hasn't done anything that other shonen hasn't done better.

The series was better when Goku was a kid, he should've stayed a kid forever.

>No arguments
Zoomer Reddit Frog BTFO

Imagine being this much of a contrarian

enter CHADREN

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>one year long gap rule
Never a problem since DB often has time skips.
He just forgot about the Dragon Balls entirely after Goku turned Super Saiyan.

The DB's were the central point of the series and it's not a coincidence that when they stop being the central plot point the series went to utter shit.

Goku shouldn't have died. Vegeta should have remained dead.
Goku should have just returned to Earth after defeating Freeza and the series should have ended with him searching for his grandpa's Dragon Ball in Earth a year later.

This is not an unpopular opinion.
This is a cringey popular from cringey "mature" western animu fans who think they're sooooo cool and edgy.

He's right though, modern shounen has surpassed Dragon Ball.

That doesn't mean Dragon Ball is bad, which is the original post up this chain. "Dragon Ball was never good" is flat out wrong, even though shounen has surpassed it.

Comedy
Artwork(God-tier paneling and God-tier drawn action scenes which other shonen have never even come close to)
Pacing
etc.

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>modern shounen has surpassed Dragon Ball.
I really hope you don't think FMAL, RedditXReddit , My Reddit Academia or JoJo are anywhere near as good.

The only one that has come close since then is Shaman King.

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In my opinion saying other shonen surpassed Dragon Ball is flat out wrong too and anyone who says otherwise is an edgy contrarian

>Shaman King
If it wasn't clear from your three uses of the word "Reddit", now it's certainly you're trolling.

I would've preferred Vegeta to not cuck Yamcha and either get with Lunch or a new female character to make Trunks

>or JoJo
>Modern Anime
Jojo influenced dbz, my guy. Why the hell are you using that as an example of "modern" anime.

>After being killed by frieza vegeta should have stayed dead.
No Vegeta = No Dragon Ball.

SS2 Gohan is overrated.

>jojo influenced dbz
Look, i know that's it's normal to day that old anime inspired new anime but in what way did jojo inspire dragon ball?

The dragon balls should have more uses than just being used to revive people.

The dragon balls should be relevant in every arc. Even in the tournament arcs ones. For example:
21th budokai tenkaichi arc: while goku and krilin are training with master roshi, pilaf and his gang would search for the dragon balls. Pilaf gang would often clash with the red ribbon army who are foreshadowed this early before their own arc.
22th budokai tenkaichi: pilaf and his gang are searching for the dragon balls again after a talking rice cooker (later revealed as king piccolo sealed thanks to the mafuba) tells them that if the use the dragon balls to release him he is going to help them with their plans.
Etc...

Goku should've stayed dead in Cell arc with Gohan becoming MC and then the manga goes on for another 100-130 chapters and ends with Gohan reviving Goku so chi chi isn't alone. The end. Super is complete dogshit.

>Jojo influenced dbz
Other way around.
DB came before JoJo.

DB has the best fights, adventure, comedy, artwork etc.
Mankin has the best characters, writing, story.

>Goku should've stayed dead in Cell arc with Gohan becoming MC
This is a popular opinion you filthy toonaminigger.

It was fine. The arch for Vegeta was the redemption Arch. And he did after sacrificing himself to defeat boo (or trying to) knowing that he would never see Goku in heaven.

>Feeza must die by the hands of a Sayan
>instead he died by the sword of a Sayan
Pottery.

Other Shonen would be incredibly different if it wasn’t for Dragon Ball.

I don't know which DB opinions are popular because I'm not a Brazilian. I wish it never got popular at all, for as much fun as it was there was a lot of shit that it did that really sucked. The fights got fucking terrible fast, there was basically no variety between the Ginyu Squad and the first few times Goku used Ultra Instinct.

Cell should have been a much bigger threat because he had Piccolo's tactics and Goku's skill. But by that point it had all been power level scream beams.

Super Saiyan should've been a transformation that represents the Saiyan biology, instead of just being a lazy way to use less ink.

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Humans and Piccolo should've learned Kaiohken and Genkidama since they reached Kaioh faster and were already stronger than Goku.

The third transformation of Freeza is fucking useless, they added it only to show the hierarchical proportion to instill fear in the spectator by showing him a huge opponent but he was already big in his second transformation.

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Vegeta is the best character because he's not the focus of most fights for the series. He gets to develop outside of it and isn't kept retarded to make him more fun and appealing to Toriyama.

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this

Goku and Vegeta should go halfsies on the Earth's women. Humans are too weak to defend Earth from even pipsqueaks like Nappa.

Humans should have begun to gain more abstract powers that would allow them to stand up to far stronger opponents that are just ki monsters. Honestly the concept of magic in the dbz universe was horrendously underutilized. Even a JoJo stand like Scary Monsters could level the playing field.
>turn Goku into a dinosaur
>now he can't go super saiyan or use martial arts so all he has is lots of ki and a body he's not used to (remember he almost fucking died on Namek when he had to fight in a different body)

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vegeta and launch
based pairing

Honestly, my biggest pet peeve with DBZ is how insignificant death is. Once a character dies, everyone's like "it's okay, well just bring him back later." Which negates the finality of death. And this removes all Stakes and hence all the tension is when fighting any villain is gone.

My other biggest problem is how they kept hyping the Super Saiyan, only for it to literally become irrelevant and inadequate in the very next arc.

The Earthlings in Dragon Ball are already weird enough as it is, so why not make most of them meta-humans with super powers that are almost or more bullshit than the Super Saiyan transformation.

The androids commited a crime against all mortals when they killed Dr Gero, a genius that created technology that could stand up to the oppression of ki-capable races.

Frieza was only created to lose and die in Vegeta's place.

Jiren is the weakest character in the series.

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