Just finished watching Rebellion for the 10th time: since I'm indescribably devasted at the realization we'll almost certainly never get a continuation that's not gatcha-derived I thought I'd make a thread for one of my favorite anime.
Help me alleviate my pain, anons, please!
So, in short, PMMM thread
Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Sebastian Young
Josiah Ward
If it’s your favorite anime, why in the world would you watch that terrible movie more than once? Let alone ten times!
Isaac Scott
>rebellion
>terrible
it's easily the best thing since Eva Q
Joshua Lewis
>imagine actually thinking that Rebellion needs a sequel.
You should know that by now. The sequel to Rebellion is... Rebellion. After you finished watching it, the thing you should watch next is Rebellion, because no matter how many times you rewatch it, you will always get more value out of it. It's just like some people read the bible every day tbqh.
kill yourself, heretic.
>it's deefinetly the best thing ever
fixed that for you
Noah Collins
Rebellion has one single fault:
It's too deep.
For example, a lot of people are simply incapable of comprehending what is displayed on OPs picture.
And that is one single scene.
Jack Howard
>imagine actually thinking that Rebellion needs a sequel.
Yes, I do, in fact, think Rebellion needs a sequel.
There's no need to kid ourselves, everyone can agree on the fact this story needs closure.
And, as things are, what we have is absolutely not what we need.
Unfortunately, what we'll get is a okay-ish gatcha anime adaptation. Let's just pray it'll sell enough to convince SHAFT to begin working on the real deal
P. S. I want to see more of the Clara Dolls. This should be non-negotiable
Jordan Long
ehm, user. Do you also think that the gospel needs a sequel?
Well, then Jesus defeats all evil and the kingdom of God lasts eternally... and then? What ThEN?
That's how it sounds when people say that Rebellion needs a sequel.
What possibly could follow a victory that lasts for all eternity?
What possible conflict could there be in a world that was already redeemed?
If you truly understand Rebellion, and what makes it so unique and amazing, then you will see that the enemy that Homura defeats is nither QB, nor witches, nor herself - not even the world.
It's Postmodernism itself.
It's the concept of Deconstruction.
That is also why Madoka is not a Deconstruction btw.
So I ask you: What bigger threat could there be then the destroyer of frameworks itself?
The only thing you could do is to have Madoka and Homura make up somehow - ignoring all symbolism and metaphors, and sacrificing all infinite layers of symbolic representations and abstraction that Rebellion set up in order to deliver us this triumph of triumphs.
Gen Urobuchi refused it with good reason.
Only a fool would dare to do that.
Xavier Fisher
TLDR: Don't tamper with divinity, mortal.
Leo Gonzalez
Now, elaborate shitposting aside, you can't seriously believe Rebellion doesn't need a final act to complete Homura's tribulations, right?
It is painfully clear that Homu still needs to find salvation from herself; she needs to regain the clarity of mind she partially lost at the end of the 3rd movie, and more importantly, she needs to peacefully reconcile with Madoka and the others.
I simply can't accept a Homura forever damned to endless remorse, self-loathing and perpetual frustration (and all of these fundamentally self-inflicted, no less!)
Grayson Green
I can't wait to see what happens when thew MagiReco anime airs and people have to wo0rk out where it fits in the Madoka lexicanon.
Xavier Bell
easy, it doesn't. Good that this mystery was solved!
Evan Taylor
>when thew MagiReco anime airs
Yeah, you said that right: WHEN it airs.
The anime was announced, what, 12 months ago? And since then, we got no other news about it.
I'm starting to think they forgot they had to work on it
John Garcia
youtube.com
Have you noticed?
That the truth only exists in the past,
Hopes, dreams and the future,
Are just egoistic tales of a faraway silver garden.
>a Homura forever damned to endless remorse, self-loathing and perpetual frustration
I would say she isn't.
Homura managed to create a silver garden for Madoka and the others, and that is all she ever wanted.
Do you think Homura looks particularly self-loathing in the Epilogue?
They are so far beyond happy endings at that point that the very concept is ridiculous.
Like, perhaps I can explain it to you:
Tell me, what SHOULD happen?
What should be the result? The world that Homura created is a world that sacrifices truth for happiness.
Do you want Homura to join Madoka in her happy world and forget the truth?
Homura is the guardian of the innocent. When Homura cried here:
Or what do you want?
You see, everything Homura wants is to protect Madoka, and if possible save her other friends, too.
Why do you even think that the state of that world is so bad for her?
She has lot's responsibilities and duties, but why is that such a bad thing? Responsibility and duty are not bad.
Carson Rivera
Let's hope this is the case.
GOOD RIDDANCE!
Mason Clark
Rebellion ends with Homura commits the ultimate act of responsibility:
She cast her WILL onto reality.
There is not higher triumph possible, this is something characters only dream off, but it usually fails - with good reason.
Kiritsugu wanted to do this - but his holy grail was cursed and exploded in a sea of fire.
Like, at this point you just need to go on a higher level of abstraction:
WHAT DO YOU VALUE?
Seriously.
That is the most important question here.
Is fooling around with your friends in middle school for a few years really that valuable?
Is growing up valuable or would it be better to remain in a perpetual state of now?
Like, the thing that Homura has is ultimate power over reality itself and has the satisfaction of protecting her friends.
Perhaps a good allegory is Faust:
Faust asked the devil for a moment of perfect happiness, the devil should win his soul if he managed to show it to him.
Yet at the end of Faust 2, Faust finds meaning, not in a perfect moment - but in service to other people, and so he dies happy, but the devil does not get his soul.
And that is very much what happens to Homura, she finds meaning in Protecting her friends, and that is the nature of her world and happiness.
"Even the pain was dear to me" - YES, because it makes you happy to help others.
At the end of Rebellion, Homura is happy because she has a JOB. Don't take away her job.
Ryan Walker
>Faust
get with the times gramps, rebellion is more nietzschean than faustian.
Isaac Moore
Rebellion is E V E R Y T H I N G
Isaac Smith
Then you realise there will be no Rebellion anything before MagiReco.
Ian Harris
It is alright. Without Rebellion forcing a sequel there would be no MagiReco.
Josiah Reyes
You are correct about everything.
The entire point of Rebellion is that it takes the opposing relationships established in madoka and twists them until it results in a contradiction which leads to the Hegalian "Aufhebung" of this adversarial, conceptual relationship.
This is deeply postmodernist in itself as it is how a Derridan deconstructionist critique of a text functions.
Wyatt Lee
Oh, please, Rebellion is a synthesis of many things, not only Nietzsche.
I could have said that Homura became an Übermensch and by that forced her own values onto the world, and it is by definition impossible to let a character like that lead a normal life without degrading her.
But that was already said many times in the past and is frankly quite abstract and difficult to follow, so perhaps the Faust analogy will suffice.
Owen Moore
>you will never fully understand rebellion
Joshua Nguyen
>Aufhebung
YES! Finally, someone who understands!
At the end of everything, Akemi Homura is the ultimate Magical Girl of Love and Courage - in the truest and most literal way possible, overcoming all previously established contradictions
>This is deeply postmodernist in itself as it is how a Derridan deconstructionist critique of a text functions.
Yet I have never seen this executed besides in Madoka Magical Rebellion.
I would wager to claim that even if this was intended, the usual approach of critical theory is to just deconstruct everything into nihilism. If you happen to know other examples I would be more then happy to be proven wrong in this regard.
Samuel Gomez
Good Riddance once again!
Justin Adams
You are the unusual fan who dislikes both Rebellion and the gacha.
William Sanders
No, I LOVE Rebellion, but there shouldn't be a sequel.
I just don't want it to be desecrated either way.
Ayden Ortiz
Puella Magical is Faustian.
Rebellion is Hegelian.
Magia Record is Marxist Diadetic.
Ryder Lewis
There is going to be a sequel one day problem is they are scratching their heads about how to do it so they gave up and wrote a gacha.
Jeremiah Collins
>Yet I have never seen this executed besides in Madoka Magical Rebellion.
Because generally doing deconstruction in the form of fiction is difficult and not really rewarding unless you invest the effort to establish something first.
Which is why Rebellion works.
>the usual approach of critical theory is to just deconstruct everything into nihilism
The idea of structuralist deconstruction is that you take tension points in the text and just push them until something breaks. Usually you apply this to "real" metaphysics, which is why things end up just lost and empty. But in deconstructing fictional metaphysics you can do more interesting things.
A tension point in Madoka Magica would be the relationship between the Magical Girl and the Witch, it is a strict binary, opposing relationship. Rebellion addresses it in many possible ways.
Sakuya is both, Bebe is a Witch that isn't a Witch and Homura seeks to not be either of the two and transcend by overcoming this binary relationship.
In this process she overturns another of these relationships, the binary between God and Satan (the adversary). She becomes God, in the truest sense, but only through the motivations, goals and qualities ascribed to Satan. Madoka falls from the role of God to the position of Satan, while still embodying all the positive qualities of God.
You see what I mean, when I say "fictional metaphysics allow you to do more"?
Elijah Hernandez
Why didn’t Madoka just rape Homura back?
Jayden Ross
>fictional metaphysics allow you to do more
You are saying that regarding the nature of their world and the way narrative structures work tweaking aspects of it might lead to a more interesting conclusion, then if you were to apply this to reality for example.
However, I think I am getting too far ahead of myself, as the examples you put forth are more physical aspects of the world than anything.
the Magical Girl and the Witch, for example, are fictional states of existence that are entirely divorced from reality, and thus deconstructing them leads to more interesting results.
But in this aspect, the metaphysical value structure of the world still remains the same as the real world.
I would say that fictional metaphysics come into play only after the whole cosmic horror of the situation shatters the framework of the social fabric, and thus renders all common metaphysics irrelevant.
And this last point is also why I would say is actually below the bottom line DOESN'T have fictional metaphysics: The full revision of the value structure is also something that is applicable to the real world. And that is precisely what makes it so brilliant and valuable.
>Madoka falls from the role of God to the position of Satan
I don't think she does this one thing, but this is ok I get your point. I also like to generalize things in Rebellion in particular when I notice patterns until some puzzle part stops fitting.
Like it would be tempting to say that the magical girls clearly represent philosophical positions until you start wondering about the ideological difference between Sayaka and Mami.
Patterns definitely do exist, but almost exclusively inconsequential, which - in a way - makes the whole even more beautiful, as this itself is a pattern, a meta-pattern about the nature of patterns which also applies to itself.
Carter Walker
I guess, my question would be where do you draw the line between fictional concepts being physical and metaphysical?
Evan Jenkins
is there romance in this?
Lincoln Reed
Because Chadmura is always the one doing the rape.
Bentley Edwards
Thomas Robinson
For example, the concept of magic itself is in a way metaphysical.
However, it is entirely possible to use it in a way that is entirely representative of real-world circumstances, for example, if magic exclusively takes the role of guns in the universe.
Therefore would a world like that have fictional metaphysics or not?
I would say that any fictional situation that has a real-life analogy does not have fictional metaphysics at the very least.
Also, why would a situation that is still applicable to our values like the state of witches and magical girls - whose analogous situations could theoretically be constructible(I'm talking genetically modifying people and other hypothetical contemplations) - have fictional meta-physics?
Ironically the part where I actually DO see fictional meta-physics is the existence of Karma and Time Loops, which get shoved under the rug by Rebellion btw.
Why I can see your point, I think that fictional metaphysics will most of the time just be a proxy for extraordinary situations under real metaphysics.
I think the reason why Rebellion feels as if it has fictional metaphysics is not the existence of concepts like witches. It's the radicality of the situation: The world has already been rewritten, there is a whole of 4 worlds presented, and so "real" metaphysics become unrecognizable in the face of such problems.
Levi Ross
Also, feel free to correct me in case I have misunderstood something here.
Those are just my spontaneous thoughts on this topic, I have never contemplated the idea of fictional meta physics in an articulated way before now.
Sebastian Gonzalez
There you have it user, Rebellion does not need a sequel because of something something Hegelian Dialectic, Faust and Nietzsche.
Ethan Clark
>tfw we will never see the Love doll
JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP, Urobutcher.
Nathan Price
Who rolling for SayuSayu?
Lincoln Reyes
I thought it was confirmed for this year.
Chase Harris
I'd watch a sequel where it's just the Clara Dolls fucking around the entire time.
Zachary Allen
Ibari and Usotsuki best girls
John Allen
You mean like Magi Reco?
Owen Fisher
No.
Hunter Cook
It is, the game is also apparently coming to the west soon.
Carson Butler
Homura herself is the Love doll.
Aiden Peterson
twitter.com
Yeah, I'm thinking they're back.