Wall of text incoming, but I'm gonna have to explain myself.
I'm turning 40 this year and have followed Gainax since the very beginning. My dad took me to see Gainax's first film Royal Space Force when it premiered in LA back in late '86, which screened the (now lost) shitty butchered English version called Space Quest or Star Quest, I can't remember. Royal Space Force returned to me again in 1995, now in my mid teen years, with a proper English dub. And to this day, I believe it to be Gainax's only worthy material. It featured a heavily streamlined, pseudo-realistic, and down to earth visual style, with a subtle and humble script pertaining to social frustration, geopolitics, and space exploration. It was true mature animation, and an impressive technical feat which I could appreaciate in my older age. Of course it ended up bombing and forgotten to history. What did Gainax do in response? Abandon everything that made Royal Space Force great. I pursued every other piece of Gainax media I could get my hands on in hopes they would pursue and develop their vision. Nope. It only took them a year following Royal Space Force to shift to this new, fetishized, otaku oriented style in Gunbuster. And it continued. From Nadia, to NGE, to FLCL, to Diebuster, to Gurren Lagann, and then Panty and Stocking. This new Gainax resembled nothing of what they once were in their early years, with the young, wide eyed ambition to innovate within its industry being gone in favor of wacky randomness, sexualized children for otaku losers, and references to older (and better) media. It's particularly ironic, seeing as how many of the same artists and animators that contributed to Royal Space Force also did so for Evangelion, FLCL, Gunbuster, etc. And now, Gainax hardly to be heard of. At all. The studio was never good. They squandered any potential they once had early on, when the film they specifically founded the studio "Gainax" for was a blunder.
Honneamise has the depth of a kid's pool and I'm glad they abandoned that failed attempt of copying life to improve upon it and make it more dynamic like animation is supposed to do. I can barely name one character from that bore, the scene that stuck with me was that completely out of place rape attempt.
If all of their following works followed that formula they would've been forgotten way earlier. Thankfully they found a better path.
Blake White
>How did people ever like them? Dude did you see those titties? Woah. pubes!
Brody Phillips
Gainax started with the Daicon shorts, not with Honneamise, retard. And those were clearly in the spirit of all the rest of their stuff, it was Honneamise which was a weird detour. It's also a not stellar movie, too ambitious for it's own good and frequently tonally deaf.
In 86 i was still watching Gaiking, Starzinger, Koutetsu Jeeg and thankfuly for me, Yamato was airing for the first time around these parts.
Easton Ward
If you're really 40 years old, I'm wondering how you feel about anime now compared to back then?
Blake Moore
Its the works following Honneamise that have the depth of a kid's pool, consider the appeal of what everyone raved about later in Gainax titles. Its always the superficial stuff. Honneamise was anything but copying life and is far more dynamic than their later attempts at animation, having created an _entirely_ fictional (yet practical) world from scratch. It took full advantage of its medium to achieve this task in ways unimaginable to conventional filmmaking. All without relying on the random autism of the later titles. Honneamise had much to say about morality relative to ambition, scientific advancement, and the military industrial complex. No exaggeration and autism is required to do such a thing in animated format.
It's not a perfect film by any means, but one that found a sublime new style compared to its contemporaries that, given some time, could've created a true masterpiece. The later works rely solely on crazy motions and random scripts to give a false sense of substance while hindering on otaku material to catch the appeal of the audience.
Isaac Baker
>wacky randomness
Opinion fucking discarded. But good to know that smoothbrained contrarians can be of any age.
Joshua Young
They hadn't assumed the name Gainax yet and had spent nearly 5 years creating Honneamise. I didn't say it was perfect, but unique if given more attempts to refine its efforts. But compared to the later works, it was most assuredly a masterpiece by comparison If you are a grown man and obsess over that stuff, consider growing up. In the 80s there was a lot of the same going on, where there was lots of potential and money floating around that was never truly realized to its greatest potential. The 90s had more successes, but to the chagrin of many failures. The 2000s continued down this path and now the industry is a walking corpse of an outdated business model. People won't stick with it much longer and it will crash if the excess in material is not quality.
Christian Richardson
Gainax staff themselves admit to the fluff people write video essays about is meaningless dribble left for interpretation and is usually just for aesthetic appeal. I can't credit an author for a script they don't write.
David Garcia
I think Gainax represented everything wrong with the industry: Otaku pandering and incestuousness
Ian Diaz
>consider growing up >makes OLD GOOD NEW BAD threads lmao
Is Honneamise really supposed to be realistic and subtle? There are some really cartoony and comedic parts in there, in case you don't remember. And saying that it's not otaku is just not true. It was entirely created by people who liked sci-fi and military stuff and totally comes from that same scene. Plus, it was a really big effort to create the film, so they probably weren't going to do it all the time. Fact: it was biggest budget anime of all time until Akira came out 1 year later, and yest it was ahead of everything by Ghibli until Kiki's Delivery Service came out. The film was a big bomb financially speaking.
If I'm being honest, I think that Nausicaa is less otaku centric in a bubble, since it was produced by Miyazaki and is purposely supposed to be something of an old tale. NGE has otaku overtones but it is entirely different and critical of a lot of what it was presenting. As for Gainax's other old works (before the 2000's) I think it's safe to place them in the category of being very self-aware and enjoying the anime scene of the time. In the 2000's, they carried on the mindset of creating things that (what appears to be) the creators making products that they enjoyed or wanted to see. But, come the 2000's, the otaku culture had shifted quite a bit, and as a result Gainax had adopted almost a unique approach in what they created, which paved the way to things like FLCL, Diebuster and Panty and Stocking.
Anyway, what I don't entirely understand is what your problem with this is. The fact that there aren't any anime around to pioneer more serious material? Well, Gainax is pretty much the opposite of serious, be at least you can sleep knowing that someone is making a difference.
Kayden Bailey
>People won't stick with it much longer I was with you up until this part.
Oliver Roberts
There was hardly any comedy in Honneamise. There was some humor sprinkled in like the locker room brawl, yet the humor stayed in line to the dry tone of the script. I don't care the film was made by otaku, that isn't a bad thing at all. Their passion for military and aviation was appropriate for the script and was one part that contributed to the whole of the work, rather than the entire appeal of it.
My contention with Gainax is their abandonment of a method with great potential in favor of traditionally otaku-oriented material being on the forefront of their script and visuals. And now they don't even do that and are entirely absent from the anime scene.
Strawman, actually try to address my points.
Jack Mitchell
People have short attention spans, if they aren't given any original material they will stop caring.
Jackson Flores
Are there people who actually liked honeymayonnaise? I mean it looked pretty but it was awfully bland.
Juan Adams
Most were turned off by the sexual assault scene, so no. Some elements of the script felt copypasted from Rocky but the direction and world building was anything but.
Ryan Powell
youtube.com/watch?v=-840keiiFDE Peak Gainax wasn't even technically Gainax, they declined before they were even formed. Now their bastard childs are pushing out even more generic pandering garbage than they did in their prime, sad state.
Ethan Green
i dont know man, seasonal waifubait shit generates enough revenue to sustain itself and im happy with a few fun shows every year, a few decent anime every years and one or two great anime per decade, its not like i can change anything. lets see in 20 years when im 40 to see if anime is truly dead (as an industry) or not
Oliver Robinson
The current business model isn't sustainable enough to continue down that road that long. The truth is the industry's primary focus is generating enough cash to pay for its own life support. And it does so by sinking to whatever lowest common denominator seems interested at that time. Nobody is truly competing to one up one another like they did in decades prior, which is what drove the quality of product and amount of interest up in those time. Today studios aren't competing, often being held by the same parent companies after frequent subsidization to account for losses, as the current model isn't equipped to account for Japanese GDP losses without needing life support. People will get tired, the same types of shows in such unprecedented quantities won't arouse attention much longer. A handful of decent titles on occasion is not enough to sustain the industry.
Juan Peterson
That type of competition was driven by the JP bubble economy and the massively expensive home video market in Japan at the time. Neither the economy nor the technology that facilitates anime distribution is what it was, and it can't support the same industry ethos. The bubble was great, but it's over, and if you think the current state of affairs is a choice by creators you need to open your eyes.
Bentley Evans
I never said it was the result of creators, I quite literally said in the first sentence its the result of an unsustainable business model. The home video market boom had also had an impact but its not as significant as some say it was. It was partial and only relative largely to the OVA formats creation. That exists separately from the act of opposing studios competing against one another, rather it was a sought incentive. If the industry is in the state it is now and another home video boom happened, it wouldn't automatically be saved, the lines are too blurred between competitors.
Luke Powell
>Daicon IV >Honneamise >Gunbuster All masterpieces by the master Yamaga
Japan's decline will open the door for Korean, Chinese and SEA to supplant Japan's animation and pop culture position in the region. Much of the Japanese youth have moved on to Korean entertainment already. The anime industry's collapse will be a whimper rather than a bang.
Christopher Martin
>Gainax was never good except when it was But yeah Royal Space force was good
Jordan Perry
What an awful thread
James Evans
>honneamise >masterpiece fuck off cuppy.
Leo Ramirez
>everyone just pirates or streams new shows for free online >most anime nowadays is generic girly shit with a slightly different flavor ontop every year >"this industry is failing!"
Not enough good source material for good anime nowadays and half the audience doesn't pay for the product
Gavin Campbell
TTLG and NGE are objectively Gainax best stuff. Honneamise is a fucking piece of shit, almost as crap as Flcl. If I wanted to watch better piloting drama I would go with macross PLUS,, wich is average but at least better, or something decent like Area 88
Isaac Peterson
bwahahaha the web novels that created the modern isekai bubble were popularized nearly a decade ago on narou, keep projecting
Levi Nguyen
>he thinks aesthetic appeal is shallow wew, sure didn't go to art school did you?
Aiden King
In defense of Gainax, they were literally formed by a bored group of yuppie otaku, thus it would make sense for them to pander to that demographic
Andrew Rodriguez
>humble script pertaining to social frustration
Ahem...Attempted Rape.
Noah Bailey
You are not wrong, but they at least are talented. Very talented. They know why are imitating other animators and yet they were capable of experimenting and sucefully trying new things. Gainax always do anime for the sake of anime. They could care less about the themes. They only wanted to do cool shit and surpass the looks of other works. If anything they become victims of their own sucess becoming the ones that dictate the trends and not following them.
Jordan Sanders
>become anime legends >go on to animate Panty and Stocking
Have Gainax even done anything since Panty and Stocking?
Is them making Panty and Stocking supposed to be a bad thing? >Have Gainax even done anything since Panty and Stocking? A few adaptations and collaborations, but nothing big.
Oliver Foster
Gainax was effectively dissolved after the tax scandal while the talent either joined Anno at Studio Khara and others fled to reunite with former Gainax employees at Trigger.
Oliver Jones
Panty and Stocking is languish Gainax. The peak Gainax is probably 1997-2004. That was the moment when they probably produced the most cool looking shit of their time. Other studios wanted to do collaborations with them. They were thinking they could be part of the new "Eva". That never happen of course.
Ryder Thompson
No, Panty and Stocking was fun but, it's no Eva
Charles Phillips
would you believe me if I said the brilliant minds at 1999 Gainax thought it best to spend 1.5 episodes of KareKano as recap clip shows
Matthew Lopez
> the scene that stuck with me was that completely out of place rape attempt I didn't think it was really that out of place, it just wasn't explained with that blunt-force-trauma style that we're all used to now. The MC was basically a nobody working for a joke organisation who was suddenly forced into the global spotlight as both a hero for his nation and a prime threat to his nation's enemies. I took the rape to be a desperate attempt at trying to claw back some control over his own life.
Jason Cox
Jesus this thread is pretentious. Gainax was always about using animation to it's full potential to make stuff the creators felt strongly about. Which is obvious as far back as Daicon. If you actually think a sci-fi plot is more important than anything else in anime Ganiax was clearly never for you. Watching anime for plot is about as dumb as you can get.
John Hill
>Watching anime for plot is about as dumb as you can get
Even dumber than watching silent movies for their OST
>focusing on pretty colors = full potential >greater than some of parts = pretense >its just not for you
retard spotted
Jack Hughes
Difference is a niche isn't the same as a mass market. The niche you can always fall back on but a mass market is bipolar about its desires, and they are trying to appeal waifushit to mass markets. It will only last for so long.
Jace Ward
Aesthetic appeal isn't necessarily shallow on its own, if you're an artist, but its just one part of a whole work. Chalking up quality to single elements, personal niches and supplementary interests is relativism.
Cameron Diaz
aesthetic appeal IS shallow because its aesthetic. surface level stuff. ie shallow. you can write millions of paragraphs about why its deep or why it appeals to your personal biases but that isn't everything, nor does it mean anything beyond pretentious overthinking because of dishonesty.
Christopher Long
>Thinks wanting anime to look good = dumb >not realizing that OP is the 'greater than sum of parts' fagging with his political plot fixation >not understanding that different things attract different audiences
hur dur retard spotted
Christopher Martin
C3-bu and Pleiades Also a lot of Medaka Box, but I assume you meant anything worth watching.
Blake Evans
Megalo Box was pretty decent though, never even heard of the other shows/movies
Jose Ramirez
the attempted rape scene completely destroyed the chances of this movie becoming a classic, so fucking unneccesary.
why are nips so obsessed with rape? serious question.
Aaron Lee
NANKING
Angel Diaz
The same reason incels an polcucks are: they're so repulsive to women they know they couldn't have sex in a real relationship, and paid sex doesn't flatter their power fantasies.
