How did they get away with this?

I don't think people turned to ash and had their eyeballs falling out of their bodies during a firebombing.

>I don't think people turned to ash
>during a firebombing.
Are you retarded?

You're right, painless instant death by vaporization is far worse than being slowly burned alive or crushed by rubble.

Because back then nobody had any sympathy for them.

And now the results of which have been instrumental in making Japan a world power.

No they just had every surface of their body burned and melted until they died in unfathomable pain in one of the worst ways possible. Getting instantly vaporized sounds so much worse.

Conquering an island with manpower is more humane than vaporising everyone on that Island from a distance. There's something dystopian inhuman and unnatural about removing something from existence like that.

Start shit, get nuked

one who ran away 50 steps laughed at ones who ran away 100 steps.
you're all ran away.

The children born in Japan had deformed bodies and limbs for generations after the radiation. What a travesty. A crime against humanity

Why do the nips get so assblasted about this?
The US warned the Japanese in advanced that they'd be dropping nukes, but the nips refused to surrender or evacuate their people because "muh honor"

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>Everyone on that island
Have you done ANY research?

It was either that, or get taken over by the vodkaniggers

It's better to get conquered slowly than get your opponent just flipping the chess board and punching you in the face

They didn't
m.youtube.com/watch?v=lnAC-Y9p_sY

>vaporising everyone on that Island from a distance
Wut? The bombs killed pm the higher estimates 150k in Hiroshima and 75k in Nagasaki. Huge numbers, but Operation Downfall had Japanese death estimates in the millions and Americans in the hundred-thousands.

They didn't
But it was a war, Japanese did many warcrimes but nobody knows about them now. Everybody knows about Germany, and some people may have heard about Mao and the PRC but even Japanese historians don't teach about what was going on in Japan at the time.

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Except that's a faulty analogy and not what happened.
Bombing of cities had been happening for the entire war, done by both sides. One bigger bomb killed less in Hiroshima than thousands of smaller ones had in any of the other bombed out axis cities.
The point wasn't the damage the bomb did, it was the threat that the USA could keep lobbing them.

From Wikipdia redarding Operation Downfall:
"A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that invading Japan would cost 1.7–4 million American casualties, including 400,000–800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities."

That's not what happened. But conquering those cities the conventional way is more humane than wiping out civilians. There were less chances of so many civilians dying if this had been done.

You mean the leaflets?
People bring up that they never mention an atomic bomb and the plane looks different on them.
However the plane was based on the one doing tokyo firebombings which are never mentioned ever, and pretty sure they killed just as many if not more than the atomic bombs.
Also the phrase atomic.bomb wasn't in anybody's vocabulary so putting that on a leaflet wouldn't make sense.

Nukes are like chemical weapons. They're a crime against humanity. Why does trump flip his shit when chemical weapons are used?
It's because they're inhumane.

>conquering those cities the conventional way is more humane than wiping out civilians
Tell that to the population of Stalingrad. They were wiped out when the city was taken conventionally.

Because they sent several threats and warnings calling for evacuation saying exactly when and what they would do to the two least populated cities in Japan, one of the most powerful imperial countries in the world.

Read a fucking book without pictures for once

Sure is a whole lot of on topic anime and manga discussion going on in this thread

m.youtube.com/watch?v=M4m_BwYeIRo

Well it was the last bastion of Russian resistance

Israel defence force most moral army argument

Nuke death toll: 225K
Invasion estimated death toll (Japanese): 5-10 MILLION
How the fuck do you think an invasion would be more humane?

>"You've lost, surrender or die"
>Choose die
>die
It's not really that hard to understand.

>he fell for the "nukes are insta-genocide bombs" meme

Dying by a nuke is a horrifying way to die and it's worse than dying by bullets or firebombing.
Both Obama and trump get triggered when chemical weapons are used in Syria for the same reason

>vaporising everyone on that Island from a distance
...and that's why there are no Japanese people today.

Druggie cracker always has an excuse.

Death is death, and both Stalingrad and Leningrad had over 1 million deaths attributed to them each. Hell, Stalingrad is close to 2 and Leningrad is even higher.

>Dying by a nuke (...) it's worse than dying by bullets or firebombing
This might be true, it might not (especially compared to firebombing). But either way you have missed the point. 200k dying by nukes is, unquestionably, far far better than even the lower end of 5m dying by bullets.

Gas-based chemical weapons prevalent today eat through your skin and kill you slowly, in horrible agony. The Syrian and Iraqi governments used them on their own people.

A nuclear explosion instantly vaporizes you. The US government was using them against the populace of a state at war with it.

Can you comprehend the massive fucking difference here?

They should make an anime about the rape of Nanking so I can beat my dick raw to it.

Nuking is a terrible thing to do, but given the alternatives at the time I think it has been proven to be the better decision unfortunately.

But, Jesus, no I'll take death by instanteously getting nuked then burning to death or bleeding out from a bullet wound.

No. There is no difference

Japan got payback with 9/11. Dumbass americans cant stop talking about it.

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So you'd rather have your city, culture and entire family turned to ash than get invaded and have a chance to escape before getting killed by bullets?

Urban combat like you would've had if the US invaded Japan would have been far less humane than the nuclear bombs. It would've been much worse than Berlin.

Vae Victis

Nukes destroy everything in the entire city completely. Invasions are more humane.

Who cares?

>people actually think this
Admittedly, I'd probably think the same if I didn't have to spend some time in and around the white trash states for a while.
But it's not even the really bad ones where you see this. I mean, fucking Ohio is a surprisingly shitty place to be or do anything.

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>Escape
Nope. They were arming women and children to fight the Americans in the streets and in the fields or die trying. Also, nobody was leaving that island. You were going to die starving, die to an MG nest, or die to an allied officer.

I don't think you grasp how bad an invasion of mainland Japan would be. We're talking the most costly and gruesome military campaign in mankind.

>Mainland of a desperately losing, highly nationalistic nation
>Every Door, Window and dirt path is trapped
>Every semblance of humanity has disappeared, every child holds a grenade and every woman hides a gun
>Missiles are manned planes with a three ton thermite bomb strapped to the cockpit
>not just nuking it and being done with it

Try actually going to literally any midwestern bible belt piece of shit "state" sometime.

>having a slow and painful death from bullet wounds is more humane than getting instantly vaporized and not feeling any pain

Tell that to the Russians and Germans. They need a good laugh in regards to WWII.

you're fucking retarded user, it was a power move that worked and as a result japan is a giant economical power
there's nothing more "humane" than instantly ending a war

Imagine how much they suffer when they see the entire world is ending which is probably what nukes feel like.

Not really, for the same result you end up with more casualties on both sides.

Because we're based and redpilled

If it caused less deaths it cant be less humane. The japs didn't deserve humanity after their war crimes anyway

After witnessing what SK and China have become I think the nukes were dropped in the wrong place.

Low interest loans and a culture that adapts quickly are a hell of a thing.

>Let's end them instead of giving them the fight their honor demanded
This is a fate worse than death. Such disrespect

can you imaging the immense amount of rape that would happen
US troops were already raping things left and right just by occupying the country, imagine how worse it would be if it was a no holds barred invasion

Why the parachute though?

Think you meant NK

It's almost like America is a destructive imperialist superpower responsible for the deaths of millions.

Like, is this just the first time you ever heard about actual history?

Americans care more about the nukes getting hurt than Japanese people

But user, I, like the vast vast majority of Japanese, don't even live in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. None of my family was even slightly harmed, when they almost certainly would've been in a full-scale invasion with men, women, and children prepared for a Guerrilla War like none ever seen before. Additionally, my good friend Fuminori who did live in Hiroshima saw the warnings by the US and moved himself and his family out in time, so they are fine too. Of course it is unfortunate that thousands did die, but it saved millions - such as myself - in the process.
Roleplay off now. America avoided a 40s Vietnam by nuking Japan.

Because the bomb was detonated while airborne, not on the ground. They used the parachute for timing.

So you just gonna gloss over Japan ignoring all the horrible shit they did in WWII?

>SK.
That one was 100% America's fault.

>China.
Literally not even the same regime.

After Okinawa the Americans weren't gonna touch Japanese women.

At least they'd be alive to experience it instead of turned to ash

Obviously because America was the good guys and anything the good guys do is justified even killing civilians..... while crying about how the bad guys killed civilians.

>10% of population

I'm pretty sure The *Empire* of Japan was the destructive imperialist power in WWII.

It's very sad how you've got no honor.
Are the Japanese like this now?

Yeah, those poor Japanese who totally didn't commit any war crimes!

...No? Why does pointing out that America are a bunch of imperialist bastards somehow means Japan did nothing wrong? If anything, the only argument you could make in favour of America in 1945 is that they were still not QUITE as bad as Imperialist Japan or Nazi germany.

>I'm pretty sure The *Empire* of Japan was the destructive imperialist power in WWII.
You can have more than one destructive imperialist power in a single conflict. The world doesn't run on black and white morality.

>At least they'd be alive to experience rape
Holy god, how do you think that is a point in your favor?

Japanese people experimented on muslims, chinese and russians just like Germans experimented on Jews and russians and Americans FORGAVE the scientists on both sides.

I'd rather be vaporized than gang banged by invaders and live to recall the memory.

Because you're comparing the only superpower left standing in the immediate postwar to the actions of actual fascist and imperialist powers to commited warcrimes on a massive scale and conquered countless lands.

Why do you think rape is worse than death.

STFU.

Can't kill civilians and then complain about your own civilians being killed (in a much more merciful way compared to your own methods)

>Cowards who throw their families to the fates in delusion to escape judgement rather than shoulder the burden of their failures
>Honorable

I watched that movie 25 years ago and still triggers me.

>besides being the 13% shit
>Chart talks about 50%
Americans were a mistake.

You're right, I totally forgot. I always misremember the history of the 51st state. Oh well.

I'm still surprised Mexico didn't do the same thing, they could've been stronger than Japan, was it because we just slapped their shit instead of nuking them?

>mods still haven't deleted this off topic thread after nearly an hour

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You can't seriously compare the Imperialism of Japan vs America in WWII. They are totally incomparable.

You have to report the thread, itll bump up in their feed

Should have wiped out every single Jap for attacking OUR HARBOR

What a shitty and misleading infographic.

War on Terror 9/11 Larry Silverstein Mikhail Gorbachev The Westington House Scandal Latin American Puppet Dictators Operation Condor Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein CIA Agents The Clinton Chronicles Waco Siege Kinder Egg Surprise The Clinton Blowjob Scandal Nixon Watergate Scandal The Fake Tibetan Protest of 2008 Staged Coup of Colombia Kandahar massacre War on Terror Patriot Act PRISM Edward Snowden The Guantanamo Bay Illegal Occupation CIA black sites Human Rights NSA mass surveillance Warrantless Wiretapping 4th Amendment violations Julian Assange whistle-blower manhunt Ecuadorian embassy refuge Corporate interests worker's rights healthcare rights free education Police militarization incarceration rate fake weapons of mass destruction Petrodollar warfare Israel "special" relationship ban on boycott Free Palestine USS Liberty attack by IDF Mossad cover up false anti-semitism accusations depleted uranium mutinions war crime ignoring the Geneva Convention Agent Orange My Lai Massacre Contras 1973 Chile coup CIA backing puppet dictators Illegal Occupation 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état United Fruit Company Cuban Missile Crisis and the Turkish Missile Crisis Bay of Pigs Iran Contra Operation Northwoods Area51 Saudi lobby American Cover-Up of Trials of Unit 731 Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse MKUltra Tuskegee syphilis experiment Suspension of Habeas Corpus Sedition Acts civil rights Martin Luther King murder Cointelpro Bombing of Libya Bombing of Yemen Bombing of Syria Intervention in Yugoslavia Philippine Genocide of 1900 Choctaw Trail of Tears Andrew Jackson illegal Overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii the Illegal Colonialism of American Samoa Guam and other Pacific Islands the Economic Embargo on Mexico haole invasion the rape of Okinawa Jarhead rapists migrant caravan ICE children in cages Russian puppet president Kinder surprise

>It's not off-topic because the atomic bombs ave been shown in anime!

It's true though. The bombs are shown in anime.

I'm sure Central America, especially Panama, agree.

It's a percentage of a percentage dipshit. They don't actually present any useful data because they know brainlets will eat up big numbers like 50%.

>Because you're comparing the only superpower left standing
This is actually wrong.

>to the actions of actual fascist and imperialist powers to commited warcrimes on a massive scale and conquered countless lands.
While America might not be fascist, they are still imperialist. Committed countless war crimes. And conquered large swathes of lands, often followed by genocide or expulsion of the native population.

The posters turned it off topic. The OP was talking about the movie.

>Chart about illiteracy is designed to appeal to the illiterate
Saw that coming

Maybe this thread might have been on topic if it was actually discussing the anime this webm is from, but that's clearly not the case
The mods need to do their job and delete this shitty /pol/ thread
The OP was clearly trying to incite off topic discussion

Blacks are only 13% of the population so. Even if all the blacks at that age were illiterate. There's still 37% of other races that are illiterate

Why do you fags always turn every board into /pol/? Fucking hell man

OP literally says:
"How did Americans get away with doing this? Why weren't more anime made about it?"
Try reading.

You know what I've always found weird about those bombings? The Army specifically targeted two of the cities in Japan with the highest concentration of Catholics, especially Nagasaki. I remember hearing a story about some Catholic in Nagasaki who survived the bombing and found his wife's body clutching the molten remains of a rosary in her hand. And, of course, there's that one church that survived the Hiroshima bombing and protected all of the Jesuits inside. You'd think the Army wouldn't have chosen two cities with closer ties to the West than most of the rest of Japan. Did the prods just not care?

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Thanks for leaving out the "immediate postwar" bit like a sneak.

Please point out these warcrimes to me while I throw out shit like the Bataan Death March and Nanking.

What happened to free speech?
You're taking away my rights.

Yes. Very on topic desu.

It's called free speech.

>They are totally incomparable.
How the fuck are the incomparable? The only way they differ is that America actually managed to win.

Ignoring war casualities talk, Russia was on Japans doorstep and we would have repeated the same shit that was happening in Germany with Japan being divided between America and Russia. Japan's recovery would have never have been as successful under that state of affairs. So when we say it was the nuke of freedom, we mean it literally, Japan would be unrecognizable for the worse if we didn't.

can somebody please make a webm off all the nuclear bomb imagery form Attack on Titan

...

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They targeted Hiroshima because it was an industrial sector that wasn't hit by a large bombing campaign yet.

They targeted Nagasaki because Kokura was obscured by clouds and Nagasaki had ports in it.

They were only chosen because they were military targets. Bodycount was not the objective of the atomic bombings. The continued threat of more bombings was.

Haven't heard anyone talk about 9/11 in America except as a joke in the past 5 years. Maybe you're just projecting.

The US air dropped pamphlets warning them to get the fuck out and the retarded Japs stayed anyways.

>Thanks for leaving out the "immediate postwar" bit like a sneak.
That doesn't really change anything.

How about the mass genocide committed on most of America's native population?

Something something optimal blast zone

Because Japan conqured entire countries in Korea, China and the South Pacific, killed thousands of serviceman in the Pacific, and did even worse in China where they killed, tortured and executed people in the hundreds of thousands.

America not even once did any human experimentation or mass slaughter and/or rape of unarmed civilians in World War 2 on a scale comparable to the Japanese, nor did they absorb territories as an expansion of their empire.

Haha yellow people go boom boom!!

Nukes are detonated airborn, letting the ground absorb the blast is just a waste of energy. This is why you don't see craters from nuke blasts.

Yes it does, and you're now changing the goalposts because your argument is dead and buried.

With the Chinese hegemony coming, we might see what the perspective was from the other side. I don't think Americans were as moral as you claim. I hope the records weren't destroyed

Yeah and you see tons of white people apologising for it even if it doesn't mean shit in the long run. The present Japanese government doesn't even acknowledge it's atrocities

If I recall correctly America granted Japan immunity when it came to Unit 731 in exchange for the data about it

That's because they never had to. Their war criminals weren't given asylum in USA and shit

OP knew exactly what he was doing and it works every time. Just bring forth a question that clearly has nothing to do with anime and/or manga but "shield" yourself with a relevant image from either

How about the fact that said event occurred massively earlier, at a different point in world history, when views on human rights were less developed?
If we're pulling any random event from history like it applies to WW2, why don't we talk about how the people known as "Japanese" today were originally immigrants to the archipelago who committed genocide against the native Ainu and forced them into Hokkaido?
There's no fucking point, because this is a conversation about WW2 and neither is relevant to the conversation.

>nor did they absorb territories as an expansion of their empire
we should've

>America not even once did any human experimentation or mass slaughter and/or rape of unarmed civilians in World War 2 on a scale comparable to the Japanese
Yes. They still did all of those things, both before, during, and after World War 2.

>nor did they absorb territories as an expansion of their empire.
Not literally, obviously. But they did certainly expand their influence and control considerably following the war. Usually in places that they occupied.

Yeah I don't believe that blacks are responsible for shitty literacy rates. I just don't like shitty data being misinterpreted

Japasese victimise themself with this to make people forget about their war crimes against China and Korea
Also Pearl Harbor was a thing

No way was OP so smart.

The Chinese are more likely to inflate their numbers than anything. Additionally, the Chinese Civil War was a direct result of WWII, which also killed millions and brought Communism to China, which killed millions more.

And hey, I'm not saying the Americans were moral - there is no morality in war. I'm just stating that they did not commit mass genocide, rape and conquest.

>Watched Jap propaganda
>Oh, how could Americans have done something so awful to the poor Japs?
How does it feel to be brainwashed?

>Yes it does
No, the USSR was a superpower right away after the war.

>and you're now changing the goalposts because your argument is dead and buried.
What goalpost? You have yet to make a single argument to discredit the idea that America was fucking awful expect "BUT JAPAN WAS EVEN WORSE!". Something that I freely acknowledge.

>Before
Moving the goalpost.
>During
When? Where? Proofs pls.
>After
Moving the goalpost.

America has done fucked up shit in it's history for sure, but you're clearly trying to change the subject.

>How did Americans get away with doing this?
But that movie was made by Japanese, not Americans.
>Why weren't more anime made about it?
But there's many anime about it.

I dunno there was alot of rape in Iraq and that wasn't even a justified war.

The argument isn't about who's worse, it's about if that singular event was justified

>But there's many anime about it.
Name three.

Japan really knows how to show the Americans about how humane a ground invasion can be.

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>America signed a treaty to invade Iraq if they didn't submit to UN inspections after the Gulf War
>Iraq didn't submit to UN inspections, hid massive areas from inspectors who were discovered to have taken bribes.
>America honors its treaty
Unjustified!

Pig Dog Americans will get their just deserts someday.

>unit 731

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>the USSR was a superpower right away after the war.
Fair enough.
>What goalpost?
The goalpost where the discussion was on WWII. I citied multiple examples of what the Japanese did and you did not cite one example yourself. Probably because no comparable one exists.

>Additionally, the Chinese Civil War was a direct result of WWII
You're not even getting your dates right anymore, user.
And that's only one of the reasons why it's dumb to think that the second world war caused the chinese civil war.

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Plenty of japanese people do acknowledge its atrocities. And even if the modern USA government does acknowledge, it's not like they actually learned anything from it.

>at a different point in world history
America was still massacring it's native population as late as 1873. It really wasn't that far away from 1945.

And again, what is your argument in the first place? That America wasn't a imperialist murderous super power because it was less bad than the japanese?

Iraq is a separate subject entirely. You're just shoving your anti-US rhetoric into a conversation where it doesn't hold up.

>nukes
Lurk more.
Nukes were not dropped, only non nuke bombs.
Japan was in on the nuke propaganda, the emperor wasn't killed and the warcriminals pardoned.
Japan kept their army and weapons despite the treaty saying otherwise because they had enough power to ignore it, it was just for the public to be calmed.

The economic miracle in the 80's led to heavy anti japan propaganda by usa and china against japan something that wouldn't happen if they really were the USA puppets.

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>1873 wasn't that far away from 1945
Do I really need to recount the massive societal changes that swept through Western society between those years? Do you really not know? Are you trying to discuss history when you're that ignorant?

The war had stopped in 1945-1946, but began again right after the Sino-Chinese War (WWII), where the Communists took power in no small part to the Soviets arming them, who has significant presence in the area after moving in to invade Japan.

Then say that WWII had a direct impact on China becoming Communist. But the Civil War was a thing since nearly as far back as the end of the Qing dynasty. Mao didn't just pop up out of nowhere.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateville_Penitentiary_Malaria_Study
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canicattì_massacre

And again, the only one who wants to make this specifically about World War 2 is you. Why, i'm not sure. Considering the point I was trying to make is not "Japan and the USA was just as bad during world war 2".

I'll level with you here.

Excuse me? Mao was created by Soviet wizards in 1940. Get your facts straight, user.

All is right in the world. USA/JP BFF's

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Stalin stole Lenin's phylactery and Trotsky was the only one who knew. That's why he got ice picked.

It's so obvious. How else can you explain the perfectly preserved corpse?

I've heard decent cases made in favour of it being justified and it not being justified. I'm honestly pretty neutral on the whole subject.

Again, I don't remember ever deciding this whole argument was just about World War 2. Since, you know, the point I was trying to make is that America were also imperialist bastards that did terrible things to innocent people. Not that they were somehow equal or worse than the USA.

Do you seriously think the reason the USA stopped killing it's native population is because of societal changes? Like, I don't deny that they happened. But it really didn't have much affect on any of the imperialist powers at the time.

The nukes didn't matter in that case. The Soviets going to war was the main instigator of the peace faction taking control and surrendering before the Soviets could get to the home islands.

Operation Downfall wouldn't of happened even without nukes since the Soviets invaded when they promised to during the tripartite talks and obviously the nukes wouldn't have had an effect on the situation in mainland Asia or the northern islands. Plus they would have starved themselves to death if left alone anyways even if the Soviets and Americans did nothing, no invasion needed. They would have surrendered eventually after internal fighting by the end of the year or become a failed hermit state again, but probably the former.

The nukes were used as a propaganda tool and the cities selected were based on maximum efficiency to test their full capabilities and effects on humans and city centers (flat terrains in between mountain ranges and valleys, relatively untouched by previous bombings with decent population densities and industrialization). Now that they have been let out of Pandora's Box every day there's a chance one person in charge of a nuke somewhere could send the world to hell at any given moment, and we are really lucky to have gone 74 years without it happening yet.

>Unethical, but paid, willing subjects that had no long-term negative effects
>11,000 vs hundreds of thousands
>8 dead men vs hundreds of thousands.

Bad things of course. Nowhere near comparable.

Since chinks are basically illithids, could Mao have been an alhoon

he's not wrong though, and those statistics (except for the last one) are based on unemployment and poverty rates, so general populace don't matter

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Nor did they during an atomic bombing, either.

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Interesting that hispanic rates are the only ones that actually declined between '92 and '03.

One is obviously worse than the other, that doesn't mean they aren't comparable. Like, i'll agree with you insofar that the USA, SPECIFICALLY during world war 2, didn't commit any crimes on par with Japan. But, I could also say the same thing about Nazi Germany in 1938.

>I could also say the same thing about Nazi Germany in 1938.
Exactly. Japan was the worst offender in WW2, and that's why they deserved to be nuked.

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>autosage
kek

Here's something to wake you up from the capitalist brainwashing propagandas.

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>Exactly. Japan was the worst offender in WW2
Debatable. But whatever.

>and that's why they deserved to be nuked.
Fuck off. Their leaders deserved to be shot. That's about all I'll grant you.

Oh so that's why this thread is ðying.

>The Soviets going to war was the main instigator of the peace faction taking control and surrendering before the Soviets could get to the home islands.
The soviets had to actually get there, and had only reached Manchuria. Meanwhile for all they know the US could drop another bomb any given day.
>hey would have starved themselves to death if left alone anyways even if the Soviets and Americans did nothing, no invasion needed.
This makes no sense. You can't win a war without someone surrendering. Japan would have never surrendered if just left alone. They would take it as a sign of weakness and carry on.
The nukes were used as a propaganda tool and the cities selected were based on maximum efficiency to test their full capabilities and effects on humans and city centers.
They were chosen because they were military targets that had no yet been bombed significantly. This is some tin-foil hat shit right here.

Chart sourced from books sourced from Soviet government data about Soviet government massacres. I'm sure that's accurate.

Until Japan as a country and formally apologize for their war crimes without their citizens getting anal about it, they all deserve more nukes.

I'll level with you there. War sucks, people do bad things. Here's hoping none of us get stuck in that shit.

No one disputes the internal data since they had no reason to lie about their own massacre numbers they were never going to share anyways.

You still use the Black Book, something not even the author defends anymore for making up numbers out of his ass?

The sources are from american and british experts, try again.

Americans and the British? How would they know anything about what was going on in Russia? Obviously these numbers are nonsense.

Are you REALLY saying that the US dropped leaflets for the purpose of telling Japanese citizens to run IF they saw bombers and drew diagrams to help them. REALLY?!
HOW THE FUCK IS A CITIZEN GOING TO RUN AWAY IN TIME FROM A FUCKING ATOMIC BOMB.

>The soviets had to actually get there, and had only reached Manchuria. Meanwhile for all they know the US could drop another bomb any given day.
They didn't care about the nukes. To them it, while unusual they couldn't get any contact from the city like they would during a firebombing, losing a few secondary cities of little military or economic value didn't matter to them in their current situation. They were focused on negotiating through the Soviets not knowing they were never serious and we're about to invade.

By the time Japan surrendered, the Soviets were already to Korea and completely destroyed the last remaining forces Japan had any hope of using in the future. The Soviets had already taken the Sakhalin Island and the Kuril Islands and were, to the Japanese, ready to do a two pincer invasion of the home islands from the north and west. If there was anyone that's known the Russians for the previous half century it's the Japanese and they knew what would happen to them if that happened, so they went to the Americans.
>This makes no sense. You can't win a war without someone surrendering
They would have to surrender somehow and they knew it, they were in active talks with the Soviets and Swiss (mediator) to try and find the best way forward without going unconditional surrender and losing everything. Some war faction had delusions like the Soviets flipping and becoming a Japanese ally against the West, but that was obviously retarded unless MacArthur had his way. And they were on a timer since the population was starving to death thanks to famine and a naval blockade blocking shipments from mainland Asia. Something had to give, and it turned out the Allies decided for them already.
>They were chosen because they were military targets that had no yet been bombed significantly
Bullshit, there is declassified allied documents showing your massive ignorance on the matter. The tinfoil hat is on your head.

Why do you feel the need to defend the soviets and magnify their role in the war?
The Cold War is over. The Union collapsed. At this point it doesn't matter how many people Stalin killed or how much they impacted the Japanese surrender.