How do you write a tournament arc well?

give characters clearly defined reasons for their involvement in the tournament
set up strong dramatic rivalries
give to the participant a set of unique powers and aesthetics and match them up in order to showcase how they play off of one another

You don't write one.

This

Baki managed it alright, the manga moreso than the anime

The absolute foundation of a battle shounen is the battle. To make the battle interesting you need to hit a few check marks.

1. Firstly and most importantly the fight itself needs to be interesting. That means it looks good, that means it flows well from panel to panel, that means it's exciting and full of twists and turns, that means it's clever and leaves the reader always on the edge of his seat.
2. Secondly, the context for the fight needs to be interesting. That means we care about the characters on both sides, that means it has a valid reason to occur, that means it has consequences, that means it's internally consistent with the rest of the established rules.

Everything else flows from here, great world building is to set up the fight, great character work is to provide emotional catharsis during and after the fight, great art is to make the fight enjoyable to read. The answer to your question is that this - the execution of the tournament arc itself is irrelevant. If a series is good then it's tournament arc will be good, if it's bad then it won't be.

Don't have the main character win just because he's the main character. So long as every fight is interesting and varied, a tournament arc can easily be the highlight of a series. But too often it's just a case for the MC to show off.

>hype up the tourney and don't have it being a lazy asspull
>make the fights interesting
>have characters that wouldn't fight against each others in normal circumstances fight in the tourney (Naruto failed at that)

Was the UA sports festival a good tournament arc?

Attached: 25105635163.jpg (1200x673, 147K)

Fuck no

>everyone bitching about MCs winning
What the fuck shows are you watching? Even Pokemon doesn't do this shit. Only one I can think of off the top of my head is Yu Yu Hakusho.

Attached: 1497644840737.jpg (1080x1080, 774K)

Literally just copy kengan asura

Only certain people should be allowed to touch tournament arcs.

Sasuke vs Neiji, Naruto vs Gaara. Sakura vs Hinata. Ino vs Shikomaru, Lee vs Shino.
lol

Attached: saradams.jpg (1280x720, 102K)

Pokemon tournament against summoned beasts.

tournament = waste of fucking time

Attached: 1557404504022.jpg (800x567, 88K)

Fate/zero did "battle tournament" the best I think

youtube.com/watch?v=qck7Jh-CDhw

I wonder why they decided to skip over the Shino and Kankuro fight
I guess Kishi couldn't really think of a way they fight could be interesting with bugs vs puppets, or if he just wanted to speed things along to get to Sasuke vs Gaara faster

Attached: 8923749823798728394.jpg (640x480, 45K)

The same way you make gambling manga interesting. High Stakes.

Attached: ebceca1737d4c3f1c77a7532a802e452.jpg (800x1165, 148K)

It wasn’t bad, it knew to not overstay it’s welcome and kept the less relevant fights short or offscrened.

I liked the Shino Kankuro fight.

It started out interesting when it was actual sports festival activities instead of 1v1 meme battles.

How do I make someone win and or lose convincingly without the word asspull being thrown at every decision?

It was better than the Black Clover Tournament arc, but that's not saying much.

Attached: 10.png (1762x1300, 941K)

My guess would be to foreshadow or introduce what helps them win the fight before. Like if a swordsman was dueling another swordsman and they have a rule where they’re only allowed their swords. Suddenly, he stabs him to death with a knife while their swords are locked. I would guess people would call that an asspull, but if you foreshadow it before that the guy had the knife the whole time, then it isn’t an asspull. You lose the element of surprise, but people are dickheads and call any surprise an asspull.

Ah yes, the last good arc Naruto had. Everything after that is a gradual downhill slide.

Attached: 18237463612.gif (480x270, 266K)

Fairy Tail iirc.

Don't write one at all.

Also if you know the audience doesn't care about the characters, then either skip the fight or make it really short. Half the battles in the Chuunin Exam tournament are either like 10 seconds long or occur offscreen

A good tournament is defined by its brutal violence against females.

Attached: c4fuvsm0.gif (496x278, 384K)

>The arc isn't full of literally who's, but instead the cast the viewer/reader is already familiar with, new characters are allowed but they shouldn't be the majority
Naruto did this right
>The reason for a tournament is actually justified and not just shoehorned into the plot just because.
Literally fuck off BnHA.
>Characters have a good reason to join the tournament and want to win it.
Aside from that, just needs good fights.

Have someone who has watched the Rocky films write it.

You gotta have shit happening outside of the matches too. Good tournaments tend to get interrupted by something.

Ye the best tournaments never finish. Honestly a smart way to go because a large segment of fans will always be pissed when their favorite doesn't take the win

You turn the series into one big tournament.

Attached: 78356832743265.jpg (357x300, 43K)

Unironically the best tournament/competition arcs are in series like Kenrantaru and Sesuji because they're used as vehicles for character growth as you watch them put together the things they've been learning up to that point combined with personal revelations.

Battle shonen largely lacks good tournament arcs because it's a mostly trash genre and tournaments are pretty much filler used by lazy writers to put one or two characters over and pull new techniques out of their asses.

Don't let it take 120 chapters to finish it.

Attached: 1398828996345.jpg (1280x720, 82K)

Dark Tournament
Kengan Annihilation Tournament
and all the Budokai tournaments say otherwise.
Sure things didn't always go to plan but they still finished and they're some of the best tournaments ever

this is the best tornament arc in all of manga

Attached: XEoimQ3.jpg (2952x2276, 442K)

tournament*

Do it like Kengan Asura

I fucking love tournament arcs

make it so a badguy is going to destroy the Worwuld if he wins the tournament, and also make the price the valuable medicine the hero needs to save his grandma

It was aiiiiite.....

Never have I been less hype for a tourney arc

I mean to say Prize, but that actually makes the stakes more interesting

The key is generally to make the fights good (in entertainment value, character development, plot progression), but also have things going on besides the fights to prevent things from getting stale.

only dragonball did it right

Attached: 1557828082779.png (376x685, 134K)

I think World Trigger does it nicely

Attached: Ordinary_day_for_agent_Mikumo.jpg (784x1145, 297K)

It was a good arc but it barely qualifies as a tournament arc. It's more of a quick showcase of the cast's capabilities. Shinsou vs Deku, Todoroki vs Deku, and Ochako vs Bakugou were the only fights with real weight behind them. The cavalry section was a means of opening up other students as well as Class 1B.

I like World Trigger rank wars.

Dragonball ends up using WT as a filler setup to showcase how the characters has been training offscreen.
And it shows moderation in doing that, unlike a lot of series.

And according to you BnHA had a worse excuse than Naruto?
No, every tournament arc ever in shonen is shoehorned. What was Naruto's reasoning? To show off and see who would become a Chuunin? That's as weak as any other.
I guess at least there was a reason, in HxH I can't even remember what was the excuse, so that makes it worse by default.

Let's see... Tournament arcs with no reason at all:
>Hunter x Hunter
>Yu Yu Hakusho
>Dragon Ball (lol)

The best way to go is to not have a Tournament arc at all, that's why Bleach is the patrician's choice

>in HxH I can't even remember what was the excuse
They went to Heaven's Arena to get money for a Greed Island copy. They also learn about nen there.

That's why it's okay though. It serves a purpose for the plot and for the participants, but it doesn't pretend that actual world-changing events are occurring via a sports competition. Later BnHA contest arcs sink time into overdeveloping filler cast and shoehorn clumsy extra motivations for winning. Sports festival is solid.

I... sort of remember this one being okay. The suspect evil kingdom hosting it for nefarious reasons was good and it had a justification in that it was theoretically showing us guilds from far afield. The degree of jobbing was as bad as ever though.

Paneling

Holy shit what a godawful idea, this literally makes every other fight jobber fights and undercuts the focus of seeing characters with different specs duke it out.

I see some anons has beaten me to it.
>High Stakes.
So, have the tournament be just a proxy for high stakes corporate rivalries? We got that one, and on the way to second.

Attached: 1549558333229.png (203x287, 63K)

> What was Naruto's reasoning? To show off and see who would become a Chuunin?
no it was to see whothe qualities of being shounen through intelligence, information gathering and whether they had the strength to carry it out but it's not executed well in all 3 aspects but doesn't mean there was no point

Create actual tension and conflicts there. That's a key. Since Naruto is here, lets just remember all the conflicts between the kids in the 1 vs 1 third tour preliminaries ALONE:
>Sakura and Ino hating on each other over Sasuke and other reasons
>Temari insulting calling TenTen and calling her trash
>Lee standing up for her and attacking Temari
>and for that Gaara insulted Lee and his sensei
>Kiba thinking Naruto is pathetic and Naruto hating on him for that
>Neji hating on Hinata because of her family and almost killing her
>Naruto almost attacking him for that
>Naruto feeling angry after Gaara crippled Lee

MHA's style of "healthy and respectful rivalry" (unless it's Bakugou, but he is in his own league) is good, but really, really boring to watch.

Interrupt it at the semi-finals

Yes, pretty good

Attached: 1540595696863.webm (854x480, 2.72M)

World Trigger

wow, they are so powerful, that mean that it is actually good

Attached: 1556846297404.png (621x702, 56K)

You finish it.

Bc tournament arc was great

Tournament Arcs is pretty cliche at this point, but it all depends on how the author takes over. In my opinion, it needs some factors to make it worthy:
>give the character's reasons for fighting
"prize money" is a cliche excuse that works, especially if you consider IRL tournaments, but its interesting to see personal reasons
>make the tournament credible
this is the hardest one in my opinion. most of the tournaments we see don't have a real meaning behind it except for being a UFC or just an underground fight club
>plausible outcomes
i'm tired of seeing ppl being 1HKO in tournaments just because "muh powerful contender" or guys that give up because "its too tiresome".
>actual consequences
most of shonen series put characters in tournament arcs that don't have real consequences. rock lee was crippled but returned to fight later on. deku fucked up his arm, but went batshit crazy later against muscular. gon was beaten by spinning dude, but came back alright later.

>most of shonen series put characters in tournament arcs that don't have real consequences.
some of the reasons you just listed ARE actual consequences or rather results just because they get heal later doesn't make their loss any less meaningful or consequence

You don't interrupt it and actually let it end

but the plot moves slowly if its not interrupted

I think the best tournament arcs are the ones in which you can not predict the outcome of every single fight. If the tournament is just a few main characters vs random jobbers we have never seen before then it just becomes boring.

Include interesting battles against a variety of competent characters. Pic related.

Attached: 9bbdaffd6add4d3fc54fb37c477f6857.png (780x440, 313K)

>single tournament arc lasted for more than half the manga
>still not over

Attached: wt.jpg (670x419, 92K)

Why did they stop letting Ash and other characters use their older pokemon for league tournaments after Gen 4?

Dark Tournament Arc from YYH.

Everything else was/is shit.

What is the worst tournament arc you have seen in manga/anime?

Tournament Of Power from DBS.

Yes it does user it retroactively makes the loss lose impact especially in deku's case since the time to heal was so short atleast with Rock Lee there was drama built up on whether or not Tsunade's operation would even work but the point still stands

What annoys me about BNHA is that it tries so hard to be so different but it just boils down to shounenshit fighting in the end. It wouldn't be so annoying if it wasn't praised like the second coming of jesus.

3. don't write asspulls, show the training regimen of every contestant with a training arc. That means no cheating.

Steel Ball Run shits all over Dark Tournament.

Say whatever you want but this is how you do a tournament arc.

>cool random brainwashing ability
>random characters show off cool powers in random fights
>MC loses
>winner has to be forced to accept award
>inner conflict during tournament but also doesn't stop the whole tournament from still happening
>great animation

It was perfect.

Attached: Q8ZJu3Z.jpg (1920x1080, 1.44M)

It happened in the forest a bit later anyways

too fat

No monoma

Fairy Tale, when they introduced new main rivals who's whole shtick was "I'm you but better" just ups and give up just from watching the main cast fight other guys.

Attached: 1533883327235.png (985x1400, 182K)

Tail*

This really. Well, the first one with Toguro. Not the second one.

That wasn't a tournament arc, that was a character arc just to power wank and show off only 3 characters.

Bleach is one giant tournament. At least pick a series that didn't rely on desperately sprinting from one solo fight to the next, instead of pretending like the ladder is the problem.

That's not even a tournament, it's a different type of competition.
Jojo doesn't have a tournament. The only thing that came close was in part 6 during that all out brawl in the prison with Survivor

This. for a manga that's literally half tournament arcs, it does them very well

the strongest enemy in the first or second round

Attached: slamdunk29 89.jpg (600x435, 254K)

Ash doesn't have to win every major league, but he sure as fuck shouldn't have lost every major league.

Shino has bugs that eat chakra. Puppets are controlled by Chakra string. Seems like this would end rather quick.

By saying that your MC will win because of hard work and not genetics but then you reveal he is the ultimate ninja genetic super weapon like Naruto does.

Good thing Naruto never said the MC will win because of hard work then.

You mean like every tournament arc?

Filler tournament in OPM.

mods. posts were reported for spam, trolling and being off topic a long time ago. fucking do something instead of letting spammers destroy threads.

Attached: 92832842383402545.jpg (800x600, 260K)

You 100% need a joke character that inexplicably and ridiculous lucks victories right up and into at least the quarter final.

>a loss only has impact if the loser permanent stays injured
you're dumb

Yeah if you mean the glossing over most of your own tournament arc, character fights, characters, and character development in general just to show off 3 character's 1-2 major fight in the whole damn tournament then yeah, like most tournament arcs. Its clear as day the author only had a final fight between 3 characters in mind when writing that arc and everything else in it was just pure filler.

to be fair most tournament arcs only have a few fights with "real weight behind them".

Interesting matchups is key
Bakugou vs uraraka is one of the most interesting fights in shonen

they should have made the calvary the finale, it was the best part honestly, I like the idea of a school festival being a tournament , they couldve added one or two more school festival battles like the ball tosses and the scavenger hunt but make the searches also riddles

They tend to feature more detailed fights for characters other than the main hero. They're also usually longer.

The arcs are usually fast paced so he obviously sped past them on purpose. He also at least showed all the fights instead of skipping them out right and even then you got four memorable fights and the race with the cavalry battles as well.

You don't.

For Yea Forums anything they don't like is an asspull

...yes? Are you retarded? Of course that an injury only matters if it's permanent

I loved it. MC loses in semis and the guy who beat him throws against the rival? gold. Given the setting I might also try to force the fight.

Look at the chunin exams. Only two fights worth a damn and only one more after that in the second part.

Some of them may have weight to them but they don’t mean shit after the fight is over.

You know they fought later on, right?

Learn a thing or two from Dragon Ball

>Thousands of latinos gathered to enjoy this tournament
By far the greatest anime tournament of all time

Attached: tournament_of_power_stage_by_ricardorodrigues92-dbd5333-758x426.png (758x426, 407K)

I can’t wait for Ash vs Guzma in the Alola league.

>Be in a RACE
>Decide it would be good to pick up a LARGE HUNK of metal because "Hey it MIGHT be useful!"
>Ice kid decides to freze a giant robot just enough so that it would drop on the kids that follow him
>Good thing the two kids who got dropped on both happened to have hardening powers or else this competition may have to be stopped or something
>Ice kid decides not to just breeze through the field of landmines by making an ice path and win the race with ease because the other kids behind him would also be able to use this path, even though it wouldn't matter as long as he keeps his lead and wins the race. Even though the kid right behind him, Bakugou, has already shown that he can fucking FLY.
>Bakugou stops flying to fight it out with Todoroki while running on foot over a field of landmines even though this is a race
>Deku is able scoop up 20 landmines without even 1 of them exploding even though he's doing it with a LARGE HUNK of metal
>20 different explosions from 20 different landmines is treated as if it was 1 big explosion from 1 big landmine that conveniently drops Deku between Bakugou and Todoroki who are somehow still in the same position as they were when Deku got there
>MHAfags then loudly cheer "WOW Deku, you're so SMAAART unlike these other loud shonen mcs!"

It ruins all your characters over time or it removes injuries completely. There's a reason this sort of shit is effectively banned in D&D.

so realism makes it bad? then this isn't the right medium for you

Good list. Naruto v Garra fight last and destroy the stadium as tailed-beasts.

HxH, DBZ, OP, and OPM should’ve never attempted tournament arcs. Just leave it to Pokémon and Yugioh since they actually have a few that feel like you’re watching one.

>Giant chunks of concrete sent flying into the stadium crowd

Why does your post look like it was made by an idiot who needs to lurk more?

HxH was possibly the worst tournaments both times they did them. The exam arc one was utter shit, and the Heavens arena arc was pretty much a no stakes affair as they could leave whenever they wanted, and weren't set to really lose anything.

DBZ ruined tournaments with power creep. Gone are the days of a random dino or smelly guy being a contender.

Kinnikuman tournament arcs are great

>most characters have unique abilities which makes every fight unique
>used for character development
>no 1-sided fights, so even the jobbers end up looking like total badasses despite losing
>tag tournaments are fun, allow us to see lots of fun interactions and most of the time the tag teams are different so it's not like they are stuck with the same partner all of the time

Attached: Q20 (1).jpg (760x1161, 508K)

end with the tournament being interrupted ofc

That's more a Battle Royale

when was anything in his post even close to being called realistic?

Why there's not a BR anime?

They stopped making the anime?

It's called the 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi. It literally hasn't been topped, not even by the series that contains it. That was peak shonen, but the tournament arcs in series like Baki, Garouden and Kengan Ashura worked really well.

They were both shit because there weren’t even any actual fights in them except for Gon vs Hisoka. The ToP could’ve actually been good though since Goku’s, Jiren’s, and Hit’s team should’ve been fighting eachother.

That would’ve been enough for a good tournament but then again there was no strategy and barely any animation to speak of.

I'm still mad

>>MHAfags then loudly cheer "WOW Deku, you're so SMAAART unlike these other loud shonen mcs!"
Back in 2014 when this series was still relatively new I thought that part was really neat and didn't think much about all the contrivances that were going on.
What made me drop it a couple chapters later was the part where Deku was fighting someone in the tournament and he caught a glimpse of some random shadows emanating from his power. It looked like a red flag for intense power creep down the line and I really didn't want to deal with that.

You don't
Alternatively, you give the other fighters a decent amount of setup and motivation, and you don't just throw them in and give them a long, expository monologue or flashback in the middle of their one fight and pretend like that's enough to make the audience care. The MC also shouldn't be the defacto winner, since there's nothing exciting about a tournament where you feel as though you already know how it's going to end

no asspulls

Do all you can to win

Attached: american tournament.webm (656x480, 1.48M)

That's retarded though. Not saying it's bad if the MC doesn't win but if you think that's what it takes to make it good then that's dumb

No

First 2 rounds were pretty good, especially the Calvary Battle, but as soon as it got to the tournament it was pretty bad. The worst part is that people praise it just because the MC lost even though it was the most predictable thing ever. This is far from the greats despite what Reddit might have to say about it

I wish I had your foresight man. Do you know what's happening in the story right now? Deku was just revealed to have a potential seven quirks to unlock. I used to love the series and looking it was never that good but I swear after the AFO arc, everything goes downhill

Attached: tumblr_plioicJ9g71wzk3f4o1_1280.png (1280x594, 432K)

Then it doesn't matter. If a character makes a mistake and then suffers an injury that only lasts for an arc then it's a plot device at best and meaningless at worst

>There's a reason this sort of shit is effectively banned in D&D.
False equivalency, D&D is a game and it wouldn't be fun if your character was too crippled to do anything, a story is a completely different beast entirely

O MY SEVEN QUIRKS was all over the catalog and ToC threads for weeks so I have a gist of what’s going on.
It doesn’t technically sound like a complete asspull, but it reeks of the kind of writing that turns me off from most battle shonen series nowadays.

Liked that series and it did a lot of things right but I also can't deny it did a lot of things poorly. That said it was surprisingly good for a series that 90% tournament arc

You wouldn't even need to show the knife, just subtly demonstrate to the audience beforehand that the guy in question is not one to follow rules. People might call it an asspull at first out anger if they liked the loser enough but getting the audience angry at the cheater is probably the intended effect

Not really. People favour certain characters in a story. RR Martin is writing himself into a corner by killing off all of the good guys. Lots of people loved Rock Lee, I'm sure it was popular demand that brought him back.

In any case if it's a main character what are you going to do? reverse power creep to maintain tension? Nobody wants that. Shounen almost always favour failed secondary objectives instead.

By the way there is an approach to story writing that lets you cripple and kill off the good guys. You maintain the multi-perspective approach of Martin, but introduce new characters at a faster rate than you kill people off (ala Steven Erikson). But that resets your character development, which I'm sure would result in huge dips in popularity polls resulting in cancellation.

Is there a good way to approach this in manga? I think not. Nor can I think of an instance when it has been attempted and gone well.

I've wondered this myself and the answer that makes the most sense to me is the subject matter and the source material is too grisly, too grimdark, too fucked-up. I don't think it would get greenlit, its too edgy and dark.

The book is one thing, but the manga adaption takes the material and amps up the gore and perversion to 11. The mangaka made Mitsuko have a horrifying past where she was raped as a child by her stepfather all the time. The mangaka also made the gay guy a total femme drag queen stereotype, complete with a scene where a troupe of hardgay club dudes trick some guy into fucking them. It's weird.

And the mangaka reveled in showing close ups of cute girl's faces having bullets rip through their eyes and mouths, having their faces and heads explode inward in slow motion.

There are a lot of cool fights from the manga that I would love to see animated tho. Having the martial arts battle between Kiriyama and Sugimura animated would be great. It's actually a really good and well done fight.

Attached: 1525715492498.jpg (960x960, 46K)

The HxH tournament arc was hardly a tournament arc though, it was a training arc in a tournament setting. They went there cause they needed money and to get stronger so it it dealt with both of their problems. It was even played as a joke because the creator made this entire tournament but he couldn't show any of it so a character is trying to explain everything to them and they literally don't care at all and just when start punching people

A sweet spot where the stakes are high, but not so high that the main characters have to win or the story would be effectively over which makes it obvious the protagonist characters win it or there's a "twist" where the tournament is voided in some way.
Alternatively, there is a reason in the protagonists motivation that doesn't necessitate winning the tournament, so that as long as they accomplish that goal it doesn't matter if they win the tournament proper
The side characters introduced are actually interesting while not being self-contained to the tournament arch. So it the tournament is just a vehicle to introduce more of the main cast/major characters.

>Not really. People favour certain characters in a story. RR Martin is writing himself into a corner by killing off all of the good guys. Lots of people loved Rock Lee, I'm sure it was popular demand that brought him back.
Nobody's saying that they need to be taken out of the story just that the injury should hold some weight. Rock Lee's for example acts as the perfect roadblock for his character arc as it shows how he reacts to him trying his best not being enough. I have a major critique with how it was handled in BnHA as it was told that Deku couldn't just use his power all willy nilly but he then proceeds to do just that and instead of suffering any negative consequence, he just gets healed back every time. The one time where it almost showed some relevance was after his fight with Muscular but instead of learning his lesson he decides to destroy his legs instead of his arms and eventually he just gets his arms healed back to. I honestly don't think Hori knew what he was going to do with that

Do it early, make it short and use it as an excuse to introduce the supporting cast instead of a long fucking slog most tournament are

>>cool random brainwashing ability
That immediately loses cause the MC can asspull his way out of that situation. Shisou should've won that and I'm still pissed

>>random characters show off cool powers in random fights
Most of the fights were glossed over and only focused on the important characters

>MC loses
Not an inherently good thing

>winner has to be forced to accept award
Also not necessarily a good thing

>inner conflict during tournament but also doesn't stop the whole tournament from still happening
You mean like all tournament arcs?

>great animation
I'll give you that. It was pretty Kino

I agree with the first part but the second part? How?

Have the entire story be one giant tournament arc, that's how

Attached: gash04l.jpg (1024x768, 362K)

That's more like a Battle Royale. Which are cool as fuck

Naruto's was the best one in shounen.

Gon vs Hisoka was the best animated and the least bullshit as in they almost never even talked, but that was hardly a tournament arc.

To give some tips:

Make it a good mix of interesting and fun. Make it so people are actually invested in the tournament itself as well as give people something to talk about even after it's over

If possible don't make it just about fighting (Pic related is a good example of that)

Make sure there are stakes but don't go to hard with it. If the price for losing is the world being destroyed nobody is gonna be on the edge of their seat wondering if the MC will win

Make sure there's a good reason that everybody is there in the first place

Don't just have robed characters that are clearly gonna job. Hype up everybody at least in the top 8 so that people don't just dismiss anybody

Focus on the side characters, not just the main ones. To do otherwise is to miss the appeal of a tournament arc. Nobody expected Shikamaru to be such a badass and it's one of the best moments of that arc

Interesting arena's

Have a lot of matches that develop the characters as opposed to just mindless fights

Don't just have it for the sake of having it, make sure it makes sense. Having it be a goal for the main characters to get to or mentioning it a lot towards the beginning can make a huge difference

Make sure the characters are able to use their powers to the fullest or have them challenged in some ways

Make matches so that the arcs of the characters can play off of each other

Try to make things unpredictable but don't let it fuck over everything else. Trying to hard to be unpredictable can ruin the story and easily open the doors for asspulls. Nobody likes it when things just happen for "Le epic twist"

And most importantly, the rule that takes priority over all of the others, make sure that it's satisfying. Don't just have it be interrupted by the bad guys or something. That goes for the fights to, don't just make it so that one guy is winning and then his opponent kicks him in the leg once and then wins like in Kengan Ashura. That'll just make everybody unhappy

Genetics won every fight,how the fuck do you miss that?

It's neat because it steals a lot of the elements of your typical sports manga and gives it a sci-fi action reskin. It also helps that it uses a round robin format instead of an elimination tourney so that the protagonists can afford more opportunities to learn from their mistakes without nuking their chances of winning after just one loss.
Only downside is that it's pretty damn long and it can be a huge slog if you don't like tournament arcs in any capacity.

Not the Chunin Exam. That's for damn sure.
It ripped off Hunter Exam and didn't even get the best parts: the winner has to force the loser of each match to surrender (since every contestant is seriously about being a hunter for one reason or another, that was an extremely sadistic move on Netero's part), and candidates with more potential are given more opportunities to fight.

>and candidates with more potential are given more opportunities to fight
retarded

Hell no. The Calvary battle was the only thing decent about it.

The point of Hunter Exam was to find quality candidates to be hunters. Only the absolute best should pass. Giving someone like Leorio equal opportunities to pass as Hisoka or Gon would have been stupid.

You do this.

Attached: tMD1qL1.jpg (640x960, 131K)

Chunnin exams were inspired, not a ripoff. Learn the difference. Even if it was, it was a damn good ripoff.

Chuunin exam arc is the most memorable battle tourney in shonen, every fight was really well done and back when Part 1 didn't go to shit after the Sasuke Retrieval arc. Interesting new characters, lots more depth and character development in the fights and had a good plot.

YGO is a close second

A lot of shit didn't make sense because it wasn't fully thought through.
>Nobody tells Naruto at any point that his dad was the 4th Hokage. There is no risk or downside in telling him
>People treat Naruto like utter shit despite his dad being a Hokage. In turn Konohamaru could get away with a lot of shit just by being the grandson of the 3rd Hokage. I get that they feared the 9 tails, but everyone in the village sans the 3rd and the ramen vendor wanted him to just die
>People pretty much ignore that Sauske's clan was destroyed, and him and the sharingan are treated with reverence despite his clan being persecuted against to the point of them attempting a coupe, and suspected as being the cause of the 9 tails attacking them
>Naruto failed his exam multiple times, and had been held back; but he wasn't older than anyone else
>Byakugan was hyped the fuck up and turns out to be the weakest doujutsu that is easily outclassed by simple experience as a ninja
Really the only person who I think should have been preaching hard work over genetics would be Lee.

>People treat Naruto like utter shit despite his dad being a Hokage. In turn Konohamaru could get away with a lot of shit just by being the grandson of the 3rd Hokage. I get that they feared the 9 tails, but everyone in the village sans the 3rd and the ramen vendor wanted him to just die
which is fucking stupid cuz if Nardo dies the 9tails gets out, they should be thankful of Naruto

Attached: 1554791385181.jpg (208x294, 17K)

cam we call it a real tournament? i mean the only character that had any power was suiryu and we pretty much skiped to the end of the tournament by him and saitama just one punching the jobbers

the tournament was more a set up fot suiryu vs saitama, suiryu getting destroyed by the monsters and the validation of heroes at the end

Naruto and Gaara were the only Jinchuuriki treated like shit by their village. Gaara made more sense because he was fucking insane from lack of sleep, and being betrayed by his uncle and father. Though shukaku being able to come out anytime Gaara went into a deep sleep made him just a ticking time bomb. Naruto though made little sense. People say that him being the 4ths son was only known by a handful of Ninja, and they didn't tell anyone because it would make him a target. Which I think is a bullshit reason, because him having a chakra monster inside of him already made him a target.

Not really true. Gaara vs Lee, Neji vs Hinata, Ino vs Sakura, Naruto vs Kiba, Naruto vs Neji, Shikamaru vs Temari, and Sasuke vs Gaara are all pretty detailed fights. It's not a comparison in the slightest.

Naruto was honestly so fucking good up until a point. Fuck I miss ninjas.

There are many ways to write a well written tournament arc.
>Have it act as a vehicle to slowly develop the villain through their own fights and the fights of his crew/the protagonist's crew
>utilize it to show the strength of the current arc's main villain through his battles
>have be a downtime arc after a major arc to show where the character's stand in terms of power and technique
>in addition to the above, have it showcase the fruits of off-screen training (great example being Dragon Ball's 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai)

You'd be hard pressed to argue that Kishimoto didn't take A LOT of inspiration from the Hunter exam but the Chunin exams were better and I'm saying this as a Hunterfag. He did kind of rip it off but he made it his own and the finished product was a high point of the entire manga. It really was an amazing arc too bad the rest of the series didn't live up to that...

Was looking up about missions Jiraiya seems to have completed the most. Looked up the currency conversion and 1 ryo is 10yen so 10 ryo in 1 usd. Going with the average of each mission he'd have had made $13,800,000 usd. I think he left that all to Naruto. So not only is naruto genetic ninja jesus, but he's rolling in cash. Naruto's dad has about half the missions of Jirayia, but there's no listing of the number of missions Naruto's mom has. I'm going to assume it's on par with Minato since they were on the same team, which would make their joint income on par with Jiraiya. So that put's Naruto in the ball park of 27 million usd in inheritance cash.

Literally every fight in the Dragon Ball's 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc had weight to it.
Just because your tournament arc sucked doesn't mean every other one has to.

>Ino vs Sakura
no

What? In what way it tries too hard to be different? Mangaka literally asked Kishimoto for pro tips for his tournament arc.

BNHA has things worth criticizing for, but trying too hard to be original is not one of them and has never been the case, don't be retarded.

Dragon Ball did it in its last actual canonical tournament arc (U6 v U7 and Universal Survival suck balls and Super doesn't exist)

Longer and more character focused than any of the fights in the BnHA tournament arc besides the main three listed. This is not a knock against that arc, just that I stand by the comparison not making sense. Almost all the fights in it are about as detailed as the anime version of Tenten vs Temari.

Dr. Stone, although there are only two real fights.

It only really did that once in the third one.
The first one was more about gags and good choreography.
Second one was to introduce and develop new characters.
Third one was to wrap up Piccolo and solidify Yamucha as best boy.

>four memorable fights
I can only remember one of them and that was because Herotards spammed about how great it was when it was literally just "I can punch hard" vs "I shoot ice AND fire"
HeroAca is the lowest form of tournament arcs. There's no characters to care about in addition to the mangaka being unable to make interesting fights.

Not even close. Hunter Exam blew my mind with its grasp on subversive progression. In the arc, there are so many things the audience expects and wants from a shonen battle anime: an explanation of the powers in that universe, development of our protagonist and his friends through tough battles with meaningful match ups, establishment of a rough powerscale by seeing people like Hisoka fight, clear winners and losers, etc. ToGODshi as you call him understands all these things and just does whatever he wants with them. Netero trolls everyone with the set up and rules, Hanzo demolishes Gon instantly and still “loses,” Gon passes out for the entire tournament, Kurapika and Leorio don’t fight, and we still have no idea why Hisoka and Illumi are so strong. And yet we still love it and it still lays the ground for the story because we end up getting all the results you’d expect from a tournament arc: protagonist and his friends need to train, rewards for clearing the challenge, new information to help the characters reach their goals, and the set up for a rescue arc (which is also subverted in a different way). This is evidence that deconstruction of a tournament arc is superior to a generic tournament arc like Chunin Exams and the other trite being paraded ITT.

Attached: 1495807058857.png (280x250, 44K)

based

There are no good tournaments or training arcs in Boku no Shitdemia.

This. I was flabbergasted by the amount of violence and subversion in the introductory arc of HxH. Hunter Exam was filled with interesting competitions that delves into the human psyche like the questioning of one's morality, Path of Majority Rules and prioritizing which tags one must acquire in phase 4. The fact the last phase wasn't about who's stronger but who's less willing to surrender was brilliant.

I'm not convinced that the Chunin Exam was anything but a shitty ripoff that didn't get what made the original work. Just look at how much time Naruto dwells on unironic 1v1 fights as mentions instead of crafting an interesting competition like the Hunter Exam.

HxH is a deconstruction of shonen genre.

It was a great arc and an even better introduction arc but the Chunin exams was literally God tier and had so many iconic moments that still get me hyped when I think about them from the Forest of Death to Lee vs Gaara to the masterpiece that was Shikamaru vs Temari. And I say this as someone who didn't even watch Naruto as a kid, I'm sure if I had nostalgia I'd be jizzing my pants

That being said despite my praise for that arc it still falls short of HxH's later arcs such as Chimera Ant, Yorknew and the current Succession War. Can you believe an arc like the Hunter exam which is better than most shounen arcs is one the lower spectrum of HxH quality? Togashi is a genius

you could say the same shit in a different way about most tournament exams desu,subversion or more violence doesn't mean it's better. It's a matter of preference,some of us love the regular troupes no matter how hard they are hammered rather than trying to subvert the expectations.

Hardly any of the characters had conflicts(inner or with others) or memorable fights stop acting like HxH something more than a regular shonen,it just chose to explore better themes and reach out of the mold a bit.

dont have the tournament stop mid way with a bad, or big bad fucking things up halfway or near the end
end a fucking tournament, swear to christ the stoppage of one is one of the bigger tropes i hate

what exactly were the subversions in HXH?

See editors forced him to do it,shikamaru was his original winner.

Even if it is or isn't a complete asspull, it's trash nonetheless. Deku just getting more and more and more handed to him. Feels like Naruto.

This. The highest point of Eyeshield 21 was having to face Naga in the first round.

Which would've been cool as fuck to see. He also made him scrap a bunch of arcs, seriously fuck that editor

But he is the reason why we have sauce.

And again we see shitposters pretending to be hunterfags.

Can we just no discuss which exam was better? The thread have been entertaining so far.

>Protag final fight with rival, super close battle
>Protag's berserk ability suddenly kicks in and nearly kills his rival before he's stopped and taken down by dozens of guards
>normies and teammates watching horrified
>protag detained until they can figure out what to do with him, which doesn't last long because they suddenly get attacked and have to send him

>There's a side discussion that I don't like so stop

Naruto's powers didn't appear out of nowhere,he gained SOP6 when Obito reimplanted part of the tailed beasts inside of him. Same with Sasuke,Kabuto gave him all of his sage chakra and moulded him with his sage enhanced cells.

Remove Hagoromo completely from the picture and it still makes sense.

boys accidentally grabbing girls chests

Attached: maxresdefault.jpg (1280x720, 91K)

>it's a healer/support character actually manages to take down someone considerably stronger through clever thinking fight

What are the examples? All I can think of is Sakura vs Sasori, but it doesn't fit entirely and is not a tournament arc

Chiyo did most the work.

Instead of jobbing to Kankuro, Edo Tensei Sasori should've had a 1v1 rematch against Sakura.

That was literally Shikamaru during the Chunin exams. He was even originally supposed to win the whole thing before the editor made him stop the tournament. Imagine that fucker beating Sasuke. Would've be kino as shit

Based

Prince 1/2

Shikamaru defeated a jobber sound ninja and another support/strategist.

bump

Thought both Baki's and Kengan Ashura's tournaments were more enjoyable than DB's honestly, setting nostalgia aside. Fights were just more interesting and entertaining I felt.

>Do's: Have most participants within the same power level.
>Have winners be determined by who is the better and/or creative fighter.
>Give the audience that goodshit such as respect between martial equals, a fight where the better fighter is outclassed in power and loses after fighting his heart out, cheater taking out a fan favorite only to be btfo'd by the gag character.
>Don'ts: ToP

nice

Basically this

naruto is shit

The only coherent reply.

shonen is shit in general

>Is there a good way to approach this in manga?
Keep the series short, the reason a lot of this gets out of hand is because the series go on for hundreds of chapters instead of maybe 150ish. More of these manga need to be short and sweet

>Any arc in MHA
>Good
No user

Attached: 1559364263148.jpg (500x436, 37K)

Only include the fun fights, skip over ones that the viewer isn't invested in
Character interaction between the matches is important
Don't let it last too long
Show characters developing or becoming stronger as they overcome the challenges

Attached: Chapter_092.jpg (1066x1600, 208K)

Do you really thing Naruto was planned out, I guarantee you Kishimoto was making shit up on the fly and completely forgot what he wrote 100+ chapters ago

>>People pretty much ignore that Sauske's clan was destroyed, and him and the sharingan are treated with reverence despite his clan being persecuted against to the point of them attempting a coupe, and suspected as being the cause of the 9 tails attacking them
to be fair, only the 3rd hokage and a few other high ranking ninjas knew about the coup. To everyone else, it was just one ninja going batshit and killing his entire clan, so of course sasgay was treated like a victim

Attached: Tsunade.jpg (800x1099, 186K)

guys how do you write a clever fight

Still more than enough people would have shared Tobirama's view of them, seeing as it was their supposed resentment that turned them to plotting treason. The village knows that they're emotion driven psychopaths, and should have shunned Sauske out of fear like they did with Naruto, which in turn their kids would pick up on according to kishi's hack writing.

Attached: 1558792720475.jpg (695x900, 86K)

Take things each character (or each one that we know about) has done before, and use them in a new and directly understandable way.

The Shounen exam is fine, the biggest problem is how non-sensical it is.

Really, they should have let everyone become shounin once they pass the Forest of Death.

If they really wanted that final tournament, at most they should have used it as a retard-filter, i.e. let everyone pass unless they perform exceptionally badly during the tournament fights. I'm thinking Tenten, Sakura, etc.

I meant chuunin btw, i don't know why i wrote shounen/shounin.

Oh god no please no. This was my greatest fear reading Kengan Asura, but it absolutely trolled the audience into thinking this was going to happen

>Yuyu dark tournament
>early dragonball tournament
>pre sound invasion of the chunin exams
These were all good tournaments
There has to be something important at stake for the characters to lose. My Hero Academia failed at this with their tournament arc; but some could argue that it's a school festival arc despite it having a tournament. There needs to be some form of order to the bracket; no HXH bullshit. There needs to be build up to a tournament, as we need to be invested in the characters growth up to this point to care if they pass or fail. Once again no HXH bullshit of having the very first arc be about op children becoming Hunters with little to no backstory other than Gon caught a large fish. Opponents need to be memorable. DB, YuYu, and Naruto had memorable battles in their arcs. The only parts I remember from HXH is Gon getting punched a lot till his opponent took pitty and gave up; and Killua's brother using a mind pin to make his brother give up, and those weren't memorable for the right reason.

Attached: 1559416242071.jpg (500x667, 87K)

If Joey actually won then yes otherwise we don't need another 'villain almost loses to side character but side character passes out/dies before finishing him'. Fuck that shit it's cheap

Shikamaru is the best character in naruto