How long will take until this studio have the same fate as Hanna Barbera and gets assimilated by one of his competitors...

I don’t think having millions of illegal showings in Mexico and Brazil count.

Don't get me wrong, I think Dragon Ball Super's a piece of shit, but I'm pretty sure most people turned around and started loving it after about a year.

the first true hype moment DBS had was Goku vs hit fight, and when it came it was too late to recover the potential fans the series could have

Toei is a studio built around long runners and old classics. They won't die anytime soon because they can still dredge those older properties up when in doubt.

The problem with Super was that they started with two slice of life episodes that the DBZ fanbase HATED, and then they re-animated two of the movies. And then the first original arc was a tournament arc that didn't really take itself too seriously. Once Zamasu rolled around though the normies started eating the series up and only the bitter autists really still cared about it's overall quality.

If I had to point the primordial problems DBS had was both Toei underestimating how relevant the Dragon Ball brand still was, and Toriyama by wanting to revive the series but being too lazy to do the hard work by himself and allowing ghostwriters with no prior DB knowledge to write everything based on a short draft he wrote

I would agree. I'd also say Toei underestimated what fans wanted from a new DB series. Like personally something like the Tournament of Power where other characters get to shine and evolve is something I wanted to see, but a lot of DB fans were far more concerned about power level consistency, and having someone like 17 come back and stand on equal ground with Goku and Vegeta was not okay with them.

I think Toriyama's biggest regret was making power levels so much of a big deal until the end of the namek saga. That made the entire fanbase completely obsessed with power tiers as if the fighters were MMORPG playable characters. The Ultra Instinct being power up that does not multiply the user's strength is probably an attempt to fix that

The big problem with the ToP was that half the damn runtime is devoted to looping the exact same exposition every single episode. You could legit probably cut that arc down to less than 20 episodes if you had the patience for it.

Yeah. And I think high-stakes world ending monsters like Frieza, Cell, and Buu interested fans more in the end then no-tension tournaments and that's not really something Super did well. Likely because Toriyama regretted it.

It kind of reminds me of GT in a way. One thing I like about GT is that it at least tried to recapture the more adventure-esque tone of the original Dragon Ball in it's first arc and since that's the arc most fans seemed to like the least back in the day in favor of the Baby arc which follows more traditional DBZ-style story telling. Super is kind of in the same boat. It wanted to recapture some elements of Dragon Ball, but fans just want more Z. And I do think both series failed at various things over all but the spirit Super's original stuff wanted to capture just clearly wasn't what fans wanted.

I agree with that but that doesn't change the fact that power leveling was a huge issue a lot of fans had with the fights.

>Toriyama by wanting to revive the series
user,
Let me tell you how this shit went down.

Toei wanted to make another DB movie. So they shat out the script for Battle of the Gods.
Goku's god form and even beerus was completetely different.
Saiyajins didn't do anything wrong and were good guys, ebul lizard made them evil or some shit.
They took it to toriyama and he threw that shit in the trashcan and made the BoG that we knew.
Only thing that he kept was the 5 good saiyajins thing which was probably mandated for some raison.
The God saiyajin thing? Straight up nod to Nozawa and her red hair.
The rest of the movie was basically Toriyama having fun with him shitting on the very notion of a saiyajin god, saying he doesn't want that retarded bullshit in HIS story, upgrading ssj1 so that he can use god tier power without needing to do any form hacks, and expanding the universe so that goku could look forward to greater battles.
Perfect end.

Then Toei wanted more.
So they hired some retard to shit out those god awful costumes, that utterly retarded as fuck ME NO TRAIN EVAR bullshit, that even more gaudy retarded golden frieza thing, and that story...dear god that terrible terrible fucking story.
Want to know how I know this was Toei mandated? The blue hair.
It was a clear fucking nod to thier failure of a show called Toriko.

That's when the clusterfuck of poorly conceived ideas and retarded nonsense and cheap IP killing bullshit that is DBS started.
Not by Toriyama, but by greedy fucking suits.

Look at it. Look at all of it.
Big giant clusterfuck of nonsense written by people who dont' even understand the basics of DBZ and how to make it work.
Just throw a bunch of retarded bullshit in there to sell shitty toys and costumes.
Problem is that without the series being any good there's no reason for people to BUY any of that shit.
It's abusive trash.

>Toriyama's biggest regret was making power levels so much of a big deal

user, powerlevels were a thing in DB since before the frying pan mountain arc and become a thing during his training with master roshi...which perfectly coincides with the BOOST in popularity of the series.

DB was on the chopping block before powerlevels and fighting took over.

Apparently the Baby arc wasn't even originally planned when GT started being made. It only happened because the audience at the time hated the grand tour arc so much Toei felt forced to make a Z style arc to save the ratings

I meant numerically measured power levels, this is something the series got rid of when scouters became obsolete after namek

Im still interested in one piece but thats 100% stockholme syndrome at this point.

Toriko is also one of the reasons why I despise Toei. The manga is basically One Piece with Fist of the North Star levels of hotbloodness and gore but the anime feels like a 4kids adaptation.

Well there is some validity into the power levels argument.

The biggest being, how is Roshi supposed to be stronger than Tien despite not training at all during the second half of DB, all of DBZ, and essentially all of DBS up to the point it was convenient to bring him back to being more than a comedic perv character.

Even if we where to just ingore the exponetial retardation of power levels. There should be no way that Roshi should have been able to compete. Cell, Tien, Gohan, Pikkon , and even Yamcha would have not only been more reasonable, but more satisfying to the fans.

user, they made numbers meaningless during the saiyajin arc.
It was used as just to hype people up and then discarded or ignored.

It's been that since the fucking Saiyajin arc.
You people are WAY too fucking tied to something that objectively became just a way to hype the audience and had no real bearing on anything in practice.

You people also are the type of people to handwaive such objective retardation as Master roshi doing anything in the motherfuckign ToP except dying to a stray energy blast or while being too close to a namek ssj1 level nobody who was powering up in the first few goddamned seconds.

Toei would be the one eating its competitors, not the other way around

At least they pay their animators and fellow workers well.

Well, they are responsible for the shit show that is OPM Season 2. Or so I've heard.

Where the fuck did you hear this? Is JC Staff outsourcing to fucking Toei?

Read the manga

Yeah all 2 of them

Super always made great ratings, even when it was rehashing the movies. Ditto, the F arc had lower ratings than the Bills arc and the Champa tournament arc but that was expected and then Super was beating One Piece at ratings with the Zamasu arc. Basically Super started with great numbers, then it got not-so-great but still pretty good, then great again and later fucking great. The crash happened with the ToP.

For me the real problem was too many cooks in the kitchen. Toei execs wanted the Goku and Vegeta show, Bandai wanted to shill the new characters for potential merchandise and games, the staff wanted to use the old characters like Gohan or Piccolo and Sakurada, pic related. Maybe the ship could be saved if Toriyama got heavely involved in the production but he didn't care

Attached: Hiroyuki Sakurada.jpg (449x1200, 137K)

Taking in consideration pic related was personally greenlit by Toriyama himself, you can take it as him giving huge middle finger for the part of the DB fanbase that is completely obsessed with power levels

Attached: KA KA KA KACHI DAZE.jpg (649x1018, 174K)

I love this page.

>For me the real problem was too many cooks in the kitchen

Fucking this. Pic related is also a long running battle shounen that ended decades ago and recently got a revival that takes place just after the original ended, and it does right everything DBS did wrong. The reason why it is because the revival is made by the same artist-writer duo that created the series in the late 70's so they have complete creative control with no exec interference.

Attached: kinnikuman11.jpg (300x450, 42K)

>Maybe the ship could be saved if Toriyama got heavely involved in the production but he didn't care.

Toriyama hasn't written a competent story in decades (except Jaco for some reason?) so I doubt that m8

You forgot to mention the most stupid thing that happened in RoF

Attached: goku laser.png (628x662, 568K)

Too long.