8/10 of these are isekai. 7/10 of these have rpg-mechanics. All of them are absolute dogshit. I don't even remember the battle harems being this low quality.
Is this representative of what's being produced by Japan or just of what's being translated?
Other urls found in this thread:
mangadex.org
lhscan.net
1d4chan.org
google.com
en.m.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
flavour of the month yadda yadda yadda
It's been way more than a month since the Isekai trend kicked off. How long did the battle harem trend last?
I think calling isekai a flavor of the month genre is wishful thinking. As OP points out it is frequently combined with LitRPG conventions and represents a sort of merger of video games with LNs and manga. It can't be compared to, say, battle harems since an isekai could also be a battle harem. ANYTHING could be isekai'd (or reverse isekai'd). It is more like rock bottom escapism than a normal genre that runs its course (though the generic medieval fantasy setting so many isekai use could run its course eventually).
Isekai won't fade until it's replaced with something even more escapist.
I'm surprised people keep translating these
The battle harem LN trend kicked off with Infinite Stratos in 2010. It's one of the rare cases where you can tell exactly where it died, with The Asterisk War in 2015/6 due to an extremely expensive marketing campaign around it and then it being a giant flop, alongside two other battle harems that aired int the same season that also flopped. The trend continued for a bit but you could tell it was pretty much dead as a trend at that point.
Isekai will need it's own catastrophic flop like that to stop. Or something else gets more popular
>I don't even remember the battle harems being this low quality.
They were
>Is this representative of what's being produced by Japan or just of what's being translated?
Both. Honestly I'm surprised so many isekai are being translated
>Is this representative of what's being produced by Japan
Absolutely not
reminder that if you hate isekai, you are the shonenfag who thinks jojo is good and has a mal page
>produced by Japan or just of what's being translated?
Both but the latter has a lot to do with it. Too many groups and people almost exclusively translate isekai for some reason, guess because its what gets them views
Why do people care what the most read chapters on sites are? Is it forcing you to read those too? Just go read what you want.
I don't hate isekai. I hate poor quality LN shit isekai. There are plenty of decent isekai out there that aren't strict adaptations of tropes
Isekai is fine. It's been a staple genre in anime for decades. RPG mechanics though, that needs to die. Especially those with floating status screens. And 'cheats'.
>MC has a broken power that makes him better than everyone else but people still underestimate him
>has a harem of girls that worship him but is completely obvilious or is a faggot
>other males are either presented as completely irredeemable or joke characters
What’s the the difference between isekai and battle harem other than the setting in the first place?
And "skills"
And "adventurer's guilds"
And "I was an average NEET until ______"
Also I love when a title has the word "cheat" in it's name.
>browsing manga site
>karate autist got isekai'd
>no cheats, just go full karate
>it werks
>only one chapter
I wish these niggas drop the rpg stats menu. Shit's too annoying and cop out for explanation.
>Just go read what you want.
>when the market is flooded with at least 80% stuff you don't want
What are the odds of user finding a genre he wants to read that has decent works in it? Pretty fucking low I wager.
>another stop liking what I don't like thread
There are plenty of translated manga for you to enjoy, why focus on the top ones which are for plebs
Start diversify pleb. I read pretty much everything except shounen ai or yaoi
>>when the market is flooded with at least 80% stuff you don't want
Read the 20% you like then. Learning japanese also introduces you to many works instead of relying on the flavor of the month 90% of scanlators focus on
>The shittier daily life becomes
>The more people seek wish-fulfillment escapism
YOU'RE BLOWING MY MIND RIGHT NOW
I don't mind isekai. Don't like it itself per se, but I am a huge fan of medieval fantasy, even a generic medieval fantasy setting, so I like how the isekai boom has created an explosion of such stories.
>Battle harems
>One is a dad and his daughter
>Another is a dude with a cute wife and a pet rabbit
I hope more gets posted. I love the fuck out of this.
Kind of ruins it when every world is teaspoon deep and there are menu's popping up everywhere while characters talk about "leveling up" and activating cheat codes.
Yeah the litRPG stuff I could do without. Some are more obnoxious about it than others. Probably the only one whose such mechanics I actually enjoy is Death March because of the sheer autism makes it interesting.
>but I am a huge fan of medieval fantasy, even a generic medieval fantasy setting, so I like how the isekai boom has created an explosion of such stories.
The thing is that medival fantasy means nothing if the worlds are like 90% the same concept and structure and work on RPG video game logic. I like medival fantasy too but if they were all literally like Dark Souls and nothing else, I'd hate it
Tsuki ga's are nice because they are mostly irrelevant in what we see.
Meh, it depends on how it's presented. Skills being performed like in fantasy series are usually good, its when there are 'level ups' that makes me hate it. Adventurer guilds are the same, good as a worldbuilding info, deplorable when infodumping what ranks and quests are for the zillionth time.
to be honest i like the premise of the one where the step-mom is an ancient dragon that got op powers from a demon. Low bar for isekai sure but i'll take it
>I don't like it so it must be shit
It's pretty pathetic to bash an entire genre without giving it a chance
Tonikaku Kawaii is comfy.
Is there a reverse isekai about some universe saving hero from a fantasy world who gets reincarnated into the body of a fat otaku shut-in loser and gradually turns it around?
Isekai existing doesn't make other manga not exist. And even if these mangaka were making other kinds of manga would you really expect them to be any better than the isekai trash they're currently writing? Even if 80% of manga is isekai (which isn't true) you still have 20% of manga to read. To me this is no different than a lot of manga I want to read not being translated. I just find things I want to read that are being translated.
There's nothing wrong with isekai per se, but why do all of them have a medival setting? Isn't that, like, cultural appropriation? (yes we Europeans can do that too)
42 year old "shachiku" (company slave) Matsuda Takeshi gets worked to death, as is customary in Japan. His one dying wish is to work for a decent enterprise, not the black company he had been working for. His wish is heard by a god who, for his own amusement, has him reincarnate as a young elf male in another world, with increased affinity for earth magic and ability to command golems. The new golem master sets out on a quest to acquire the Seven Treasures left behind by a legendary mage from 1000 years ago.
Just wait until I self-publish my own isekai-rpg harem story. You'll love it.
more like fucking boring
This reads like an isekai themed mad libs.
At least he wasn't hit by a truck.
Battle harems at least had to develop there own world. Isekai all use the exact same cut out
European 'culture' can't be appropriated. It was shoved down the throats of the rest of the world hundreds of years ago by European colonists, thus exclusivity can't be claimed for it.
why can't we just have fantasy manga
without the isekai
without the rpg stats
wouldn't that be more interesting
There are some. It's not nearly as popular but it's not like it doesn't exist.
Because nobody reads those
isn't berserk one of the most popular manga of all time
I guess that's true, but Japan was never colonized by Europe. It's actually one of the few countries that weren't. I just pulled up some website, and it claims it is one of five countries in the world that was never colonized by Europe.
So of all countries in the world, they should be the ones that SHOULDN'T obsess over our culture, yes culture, not 'culture'
ANOTHER ONE!
...
Something like Berserk takes a modicum of effort in writing though. Almost all isekai writers spend most of their little effort on coming up with a new and quirky premise only for it to be dropped or made inconsequential a few or even the next chapter after as the series devolves into the same tired tropes.
Which begs the question, why is it in that list? Either the list is not a top anything and should be dismissed or TK is actually good or there's a fucking ton of Hayate nostalgiafags
Does it? I don't think Berserk's story is particularly complicated.
Berserk actually takes effort to write
By using a fantasy world that isn't governed by JRPG/Dragon Quest rules and has an actual ongoing story, it's already more effort than most isekai fantasy
I would watch the hell out of an isekai where the MC used his MC Gary Stu powers to make a living by undercutting the local guild on quest fees and breaking up their monopoly on doing odd jobs around the kingdom.
>Berserk
>ongoing
How many of those are Native isekai ones? semi reversed ones?
I hope so.
Relatively ongoing
It wasn't, but it was tried though. And succeded post WW2, technically. Colonizing the rest of the world just laid the groundwork for European culture to be the 'default' as the world opens up.
No such thing as native isekai.
Good. I love isekai.
There isn't a native one? oh that's sad i love native isekai, you know the kind of isekai that lacks of transportation but still has all the full isekai tropes.
Semi-native isekai is kinda good too but i rather have a semi reversed one.
>What’s the the difference between isekai and battle harem other than the setting in the first place?
An isekai is somehow even more self indulgent and poorly written.
Everyone knows you love slurping shit.
>you know the kind of isekai that lacks of transportation but still has all the full isekai tropes.
That's just shitty fantasy
One of those two was Rakudai Kishni no Cavalry, right? That was the only good battle harem, shame it flopped.
You had your chance and didn’t do shit, now fuck off.
>OOGA BOOGA I SWING METAL THING
>complex
uhuh
>girls turn into notGodzilla when in love
Also Kaijuu Fangirl a cute! CUTE!
At least battle harems make bad attempts at creating a setting and background lore, whereas all these isekai are just "Dragon Quest, for the millionth time".
t. westernshit lover
The mix of east and west is perfect.
The daughter one is not an isekai. What does semi reversed mean? I assume reversed means fantasy people taken to Japan?
Semi-reversed isekai: The MC actively looks for a way to return to his world.
That's classic Isekai, user. Usually the MC is a girl and fucking dies or accidentally herself to a fantasy world by opening random-ass doors or falling.
Pretty sure isekai has come to have a separate connotation than simply "character goes to different world, as I don't think anyone immediately thinks of Wizard of Oz or Chronicles of Narnia when they think of isekai.
BRING BACK CHUUNI URBAN FANTASY I MISS IT MORE THAN EVER
The only modern connotation is low effort, unoriginal, derivative shit churned out by amateur authors on web novel sites. That doesn't stop shows like Escaflowne from being isekai.
New genre's get added to old works all the time.
It's representative of what's being translated. What isn't being translated is even shittier isekai.
Okay so
>Isekai
>Romcom
>shounen
>Yaoi/Yuri
If you don't read one of these genres, you don't read manga to get to the actually got but unknown stuff
An I right? Is there a group I'm forgetting?
Isekai is just as shitty as your average Shonen Jump schlock. The difference is that every now and then you get something good from Shonen Jump.
I don't really remember Narnia but isn't it a Semi-native isekai? you know, when people can go back and forth from both worlds.
>Actually got
Actually good*
Phone posting, never forget
Full isekai: Gets transported and can't go back neither wants to.
Native isekai: A transportation doesn't take place.
Semi-native isekai: The people can go back and forth from both worlds.
Semi-reversed isekai: The MC actively looks for a way to return to his world.
BEHOLD! The only actual good post-2016 Isekai.
Its just shows you whats popular. Not to mention those titles get regular updates. Top manga by rating is more diverse.
>there's the isekai shit-eater forcing his native meme again
You mean native Isekei?
>Dragon Quest is infamous for being the same fucking game rehashed endlessly
>Same story premise, same monsters, same spells, same weapons, same combat mechanics
>Isekai, the majority of which are based on Dragon Quest and its tropes, are infamous for being incredibly samey
>Same story structure, same group of harem love interests, same "cheat" abilities, same dragon-turned-loli or goddess-turned-love-interest
Sasuga, Japan.
Would Shakugan no Shana be considered a battle harem if there were only 2 love interests and the generic mid-2000's tsundere bitch wins, like always?
God, I will never miss the copy-pasted carbon copy tsundere bitches.
fuck off with your forced meme
Alright, everyone who is tired of modern Isekai respond to this post with a plot summary for an original and interesting premise for an Isekai.
Hard mode: Do it in less than 5 sentences
Isekai where the main character gets run over by vehicle at the end of every chapter and wakes up in another world. It's time for recursive isekai.
Guy is a loser with no social skills. Gets reincarnated. Is still a loser with no social skills and just wants to go home above all else. Has to actually work for his looks/abilities/girls.
Name (1) Isekai. It doesn't exist.
cum cum and cum and sex with fubuki and making tatsu watch
me embodying the world and me sucking the life out of fubuki's tits and cucking the denizens of Yea Forums by forcing them to wank on me obliterating their waifu
Loli demon King takes over the world by fucking all the cute girls with her giant futa cock.
>Generic Japanese 30-something virgin gets hit by the Isekai Truck
>Wakes up in a medieval fantasy land with weird animal-people and primitive technology
>It turns out he didn't get Isekai'd into a new world, but simply reawakens 10,000 years in the future after the atomic bombs all dropped and wiped out 99.9% of humanity, and gave the remaining humans weird deformities that make them look like animals. Ancient ruins of the rich and thriving metropolises of the 21st century still exist, but all that technology was lost to the sands of time.
Guy gets isekai'd, kills the demon king, and settles down with the princess, only to discover that the demon king was his father and the princess was his mother, who had both also been isekai'd. Isekai Oedipus Rex.
>Otaku couple end up dying from the same train crash and wake up together in a different world
>Both are extremely attractive and powerful, and are still madly in love with eachother.
>However, since they're both the perfect people for a harem to form around, the keep having to sabotage eachothers' harems so that their lover from their previous life doesn't leave them
>Their distrust of eachother and their antics eventually make them realize that there was never a risk of them not being a couple together, and it only makes them reaffirm their love.
Isekai where the MC discovers actual magic on Earth, and accidentally summons a truck over his head when experimenting.
>Or something else gets more popular
Does otome isekai count? How popular are they among Nips?
7/10
6/10
10/10
1/10
7/10
5/10
Huh, I like this premise, a power couple that has to choose to keep trusting each other despite both of them being subject to constant attempts at seduction
On second thought, if you handled it badly it'd be just all NTRbait
As long as you stick with the premise of them still loving eachother above all else, it should work out.
Oh, and it'd also give an actual reason for a harem MC to keep turning down the advances of others.
Just look at how anons complain about The Villainess is Being Doted on. It would be branded NTRbait 100%.
Maybe pairing the members of the two harems together as a way to get them to give up?
Mother and son get isekai'd and end up in another world together, except the mother is reborn as an ugly fat dude (the type you see in mind break, rape, and NTR doujins) and the son becomes a beautiful loli. They have 0 sexual feelings for one another, but everyone around them thinks that the son is being groomed.
So two lovers have to play wingman for their soulmate's harem to protect the love of their life from competing romantic advances? I'd watch the shit out of it.
I think the problem would be coming up with reasons why someone else would even try to make advances at that point though
And it's really only interesting if there's internal conflict in the protagonist over whether to accept those advances or not, if there's no chance they would accept then it's all smoke and no fire, it's unsatisfying
Also you can't really have that internal conflict in this scenario without the protagonist considering cheating on his girlfriend which automatically makes him a huge scumbag to the audience, and if the girl is also in that situation it comes off even worse
It's been done before. Love at Fourteen is an excellent manga that has a similar premise, where the protagonists are madly in love with eachother, and everyone congregates around them.
How many of this shit has been pick up by baka gaijin and also having consistent translation
Gokushufudou is good, but its novelty is starting to wear off. All good gag-manga have to diversify. See: One Punch Man.
If theres one thing I'd want mangadex to add is filtering/sorting manga based on age and sex.
>Shounen/Shoujo/Seinen/Josei
I mean sort most read list by adult men for example and it'd be useful tool to discover new manga.
So you want people to put in fake age and troll the entire system
Just ask a picture of peoples passport when they create an account.
Why would you show your own real picture just to read manga for free on the internet
I like the recipes he posts at the end it also shows dishes other then japan which is nice.
It's also extremely comfy, goes really well with Miyazaki movie music (especially Town with an Ocean View), and has great art.
>tfw putting on Kiki's Delivery Service bgm and sipping on a freshly brewed cup of chamomile tea while reading the latest chapter of "Nyaachi reveals the depths of her thirst"
Isekai is just a wrapper that guarantees more sales. It can be literally any genre.
>It can be literally any genre
And yet 99% of them are shitty MMO fantasy bullshit.
>what's otome
Is isekai the Japanese equivalent of capeshit?
no that is shonen
battle harems were trashy fun, isekai is just boring and repetitive
rakudai was fun, and one of the few with a clear otp since the begining
Isekai is the Japanese equivalent of shit.
I'd compare it to that or zombie apocalypse stories, it's heavily defined by genre conventions and it's frequently played for laughs and 'deconstructed'
>shounen
>genre
I'm deathly allergies to chamomile
Oh and YA dystopias like Hunger Games and Divergence etc. are probably the real Western equivalent to the isekai genre now that I think about it
A sudden massive deluge of very samey wish fulfillment stories for teens that the writers are blatantly not putting a ton of effort into refining
Astra is fully translated, check the goddess. Ragnarok is being translated and same with Gokushufudou. Not sure about the status of the others.
Are these the winners of some new manga poll?
All these Isekai shit make me wish Dragon Quest didn't exist.
>westernfiction is high art and prose
Go read more and realize they're the same shit as isekai right down to the wishfulfillment, autism characters and cheesy lines.
>I don't even remember the battle harems being this low quality.
Oh, they fucking were. The really trashy isekai are battle harems or outright fetish fuck harems but ripping off Dragon Quest instead of Harry Potter.
Yeah that's what I was saying, I don't think Western stuff is generally very high quality
High budget Western stuff like Game of Thrones and the new Star Wars movies has been flagrantly awful for years, Western 'high art' is mostly postmodern bullshit, and Western genre fiction is not any better on average than anyone else's
Isekai and cookie-cutter YA dystopias though have a certain quality of undisguised laziness and author indifference that I think is a little rarer, the kind of thing where the capital city in their story is just named 'Capital City'
Odd then DQ didn't even have Isekai tropes. Did it even have adventure guilds?
Just what’s being translated. Learn nip, there are thousands of untranslated gems.
>Is this representative of what's being produced by Japan or just of what's being translated?
As someone learning Japanese and reading a shit ton of untranslated manga, it's the former. Still, you run into a good one every once in a while. Like this one lhscan.net
There's one, maybe two one-shots with that premise. One of them has him working as a dishwasher.
Also Light Novels are meant for the same demo as YA novels.
Those isekais are made for fanservice loving teens and adults starving for escapism.
I know a few isekais which are better than those, far better if I may add, and are not dogshit.
But they are not Japanese xD
(Like Lucid, Fodder and Shitposting in Another World)
On her way to school one day, a lonely young girl finds that her imaginary friend, a princess of a magical kingdom, is real and wants to switch places with her. Reaching out her hand to touch hers in the mirror, they quickly swap worlds (they look exactly like each other). It turns out, her imaginary friend was desperately trying to escape a revolutionary coup, and now the young girl is quickly finding herself in a situation well beyond her grasp. How will this young girl find her way home?
And from the princess' point of view:
In the closing days of the monarchy, a young princess, in great desperation, turns to the court wizard to aid in her escape, who suggests she swaps places with an alternate self. With his assistance, she manages to trick a schoolgirl into swapping places with her, but quickly finds out she's at the bottom of the food chain at home, at school, and even the country! Can she climb her way up to the top of the social ladder or will she wallow in the depths of despair among the losers and outcasts?
The rpg status screen is the dumbest shit, I cringe every time I see it because it just cheapens the whole setting of whatever it appears in. Some of them even go far enough where you can store items like it's final fantasy and shit, it's dumb as hell. But I think the thing that annoys me the most is the adventurers guild. I didn't mind the first few that had it, since it's basically just a starting off point for adventures and some manga even do it alright. But when nearly every story has it, and every one uses the same fucking template "MC is thought to be weak, turns out he is really strong, all the characters now suck his dick as he rises in rank quickly" every time. Every fucking time! I hate it!
Thought Isekai was bad? Battle Harem was even worse because p much all of it aped Infinite Stratos but with muh I’m the worst but secretly have a power that hardcounters every obstacle.
>I don't even remember the battle harems being this low quality.
You're right, you definitely don't remember.
Battle harems existed before IS but I can agree it was an absolute shit genre. Unnecessary self-insert male MCs in battle harems are the fucking worst.
gimme more like Danmachi
>Danmachi
That's a weird nickname for Dungeon Meshi.
Guy gets summoned as a summoned beast while on his way to visit his dying imouto in hospital. Summoner is a Christmas Cake who accidentally summoned him while trying to summon a pet that would love her back. She literally can't release him until the objective of the summon is fulfilled. To get back to his imouto he has to genuinely fall in love with the Cake. She teaches him healing magic, he falls in love, returns home but the imouto is dead and he can't go back. A year later she resummons him with an easier purpose in mind since she realises that its an easy way for him to go back and forth between worlds.
He's torn between being happy they're back together and pissed because he couldn't be with his imouto when she died. He was a siscon and the only family the imouto had left so she died alone. Now he has to come to terms with loving the woman who caused him to miss his sisters final moments. Maybe the CC was pregnant without his knowledge when he fell in love and returned home so he comes back to find he's a dad, not sure about that though, still deciding
Goddamn, good ideas. Hop to it anons.
Isekai is here to stay, get used to it and try having fun every once in a while
user I don't think you understand, these people are having fun. You just haven't accepted the means and ways in which they get their jollies. Just think of it this way, cucks and scatfags also enjoy themselves yes?
The best anime from the last few years have all been isekais so it's not that surprising.
Hell, even the current AotS is an isekai mash-up.
Isekai can be pretty cool but people tend to go the lazy route with generic fantasy stuff since that sells the most. It'll be pretty cool if there was a fantasy isekai that had elder scrolls tier lore going on, the amount of cosmic fuckery would make for a fun read.
I'm enjoying them as far as I'm still reading them, but you can enjoy something and still realize the flaws they have. For someone like me who enjoys fantasy settings, isekai is just the price I have to pay to have more manga to read. It's just the sameness of the settings gets mind numbing after you've read more then a few of them. You can like something without being a mindless drone about it.
>Guy gets isekai'd
>He learns that he can be isekai'd back to his original world, the process being a coma instead of death
>In fact, he can go back and forth to and from the isekai world again and again just by going into comatose
>The timelapse between worlds is random, ranging from a couple days to even years
>He tries to balance his relationships everyone, the fact that he has to age more little by little each time, and that his bodies also have their limits
>His real world is actually pretty decent: a promising future, great friends and family, and upper class financial capabilities
>He easily gets bored of this
>His isekai world promises adventure and thrill, at the price of having to deal with crappy people in a grimdark setting and the need to compromise his morals
>He needs to go back to the real world in order to keep himself from having an identity crisis / going mad
>He falls in love with a person from each world, making him doubt himself a lot
>He doesn't know if his other body is still alive every time
An isekai but it's just the lyrics to Niggers in Paris
Asterisk war was my favorite anime ever though. Typical shit taste of the nips to let it flop but at least I got 2 seasons out of it. Only normalfags hate it.
Western shit is trash because the art is aesthetically disgusting and panders to shit taste retards looking for realism or disgusting disfigured cartoon characters that they deem “cute”. Wouldn’t touch that shit with a 10 ft poll even if it had all of the wish fulfillment and escapism shit that nip series have.
> creating a setting
It was usually just same far-fetched explanation for making students learn some sort of martial art and have them fight each other and an exterior force.
Arguably Isekai is more versatile in that regard.
I have an excellent isekai idea that I will not be sharing with anyone until I figure out the best way to self-publish
>What’s the the difference between isekai and battle harem other than the setting in the first place?
battle harems had battles
isekai these days don't even bother with it
>Did it even have adventure guilds?
it had places where you go to hire adventurers. Mostly taverns. I don't think they were specifically called adventure guilds, but taverns in RPGs have all the features of an adventure guild anyway.
>quest board with random quests
>random adventures congregate there and you can hire party members from there
>I hate it!
He hates it!
Just sell your shit on Amazon.
It was never easier to write and get published.
Raise wa Tanin ga Ii has been getting translated.
>garbage art every series
Hopefully none of them.
For fucks sake user no one is going to bother stealing your idea, and even if they did it would be nothing like the story you're imagining. Nut up and share already.
British colonial army gets isekai'd to generic fantasy world. Which they then proceed to colonise. What else are they going to do? Fuck the locals?
>Fuuto Tantei isn't translated
FUCK YOU GENMCORP
Can fap to isekai
Cannot fap to shonen
qed
> What else are they going to do? Fuck the locals?
They're not Spanish
>19th century British colonial army gets isekai'd
>a couple of the soldiers had smallpox
>within a few years over 90% of the other world's population has died
>the Brits are ruling everything because they have got the Maxim gun and the natives have not
Tally ho
>What else are they going to do?
Name a lot of things Victoria.
I had this idea in mind for a while. I think 'The Immortal' tackles its challenges/themes pretty well.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, right?
- New races formed from novel genetic engineering pre-war.
- Change geography with an Ice age.
Fire Punch kinda did the Magic + Ice age thing.
>Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, right?
Especially to a world that has been through nuclear holocaust and regressed back to the stone age. A select few "royal" families with access to things like refrigeration, indoor lighting, electricity, steam power, etc would seem like gods, and could easily make it seem more like your standard Isekai until it all comes together.
All you'd have to do is flip and obscure the maps and change north/south. Anyone who notices the similarities would suspect lazy writing until the big reveal.
Another route could be dramatic irony. Where the reader suspects/knows the truth but MC is oblivious until the end.
It's not necessarily the plot, it's the execution. They all have pretty near the same plot anyway.
>Obscure the maps
Just copy one of the 12th - 16th century maps and you're golden.
Jigokuraku had regular translations but then it got licensed.
That'd be battle shounen.
Here's how an Ice Age would change geography.
Only genetically engineered Dwarves with their stocky builds could endure the vast European tundras.
The equivalent of capeshit is anything with a shitty artist.
Skilled western knight gets isekai'd into a japanese setting, gets platemail + sword and board then proceeds to break the hopes and dreams (and swords) of katana users.
10/10 would read
>MC is able to instruct medieval people in detail about technical stuff he read in a history book once like crop rotation
The sad truth is that most people are idiots so shit for idiots sells.
Just look at Hollywood movies.
Crop rotation actually isn't that complex. There's a couple of other, really simple, yet game changing, things an MC could use to improve everyone's lives dramatically. Like, sanitation, for example.
Also, very rarely do Isekai authors even put enough thought into the worldbuilding to bring up things like crops, let alone crop rotation, legumes, soil nitrates, and so on.
Normie college kid gets isekai'd into an alternate British colonial world (with magic) as a slave's dead brother using voodoo magic. Isekai man has no cheats, only vague knowledge of our world's science and technology. Isekai man tries to survive and escape the plantation he's on with the slaves that resurrected him. He also becomes the isekai Da Vinci.
Until a Shinobi kicks him off a bridge.
ROBERTOOOOOOOO
It's even more hilarious to assume that average modern kid knows how to make mayo or even knows the recipe for gunpowder.
>katana users
Katana is a sidearm. He would get fucked by polearms anyways.
ikki is fucking based
Modern rebel soldier (IRA style) is summoned to another world then uses his skills in home made devices to overthrow the kingdom for having the balls to pull him away from the country he was fighting to the death to defend. No cheats, just molotovs and kitchen science.
>isekaier gets screwed for his lack of knowledge
>idea guy
>He would get fucked by polearms anyways.
How did Japanese bows compare to British longbows?
And mangafags dare to pretend they're somehow above anime onlies.
A late 21st century PMC based in Italy is sent to a world resembling Renaissance era Italy. A meeting of mercenaries from two different times. The CEO meets the Condottieri. Shit happens.
>top chapters
>in 6hr
Try in 24 hr
>this is supposedly a “problem” to triggered normalfags
Kek, keep it up you dumb niggers
Yes, so many people having the most garbage taste imaginable is indeed a problem.
>normalfag criticising anyone else about taste
Kek, go back to watching game of thrones you dumb nigger
Hell yes
Nice projecting faggot.
Not an argument.
>I don't even remember the battle harems being this low quality.
first day on Yea Forums?
oncrawling
He's just senile.
People didn't care about so-called "generic" settings until isekai came along. Cyberpunk Adventure Sci-Fi, Mecha War Sci-Fi, Tolkien LotR-style Fantasy, middle-/high-school romance, etc.
So many "generic" copy&paste settings that no one cared about until now, but somehow it's bad now that isekai is doing that? Oh please... don't make me laugh, user.
As long as there are writers who are willing to write either convention-defying or well-constructed isekai like JK Haru, and as long as profits from isekai continue to be seeded into other non-isekai things like Crest of the Stars, I say more power to isekai.
>Tim Tams start raining over the land, solving the hunger crisis, but bringing in a diabetes crisis in their wake
>very rarely
So is there one?
Isekai is like writing fantasy with training wheels. You can get away with so much shit you wouldn't in a regular fantasy, like straight up explaining everything about how the world works, since the MC doesn't know anything yet.
>demon king hears about the kingdom summoning heroes
>summons his own "heroes" made up of ruthless criminals
I don't understand those ''cheat'' faggots in nip land . I mean being a neet is like all your time are free . Why you have to cheat to gain something ? This is what i so fucking hate in isekai genre .
>Isekai won't fade until it's replaced with something even more escapist
It's only gonna get worse because now the Chinese and Koreans are getting in on it and their shit is somehow WORSE
>Why you have to cheat to gain something ?
how many isekais have you seen where MC trains his ass off to get any sort of advantage?
cheats are there for them to surpass fantasy chads because it's a power fantasy
i thought sword dad was okay for an isekai. also fran is a qt cat loli.
>caring about the writing
Their art is shit so who cares
its more representative of depressed suicidal faggots that think this scenario would come to them if they pull the trigger
Most Chinese Isekai-esque manga are just reincarnations.
>their shit is somehow WORSE
Why is that? I feel it too. They just feel worse. But I have no explanation.
Rudi trained but people still cry. Basically normalfags here want normalfag isekai where they gain normalfag achievements and be irrelevant but still take part in all the epic events of the isekai world in a 'realistic' fashion, not realizing their realism is just their own generic normalfag wankery. They also want the MC to suffer like a normalfag cause without suffering it's hard to relate, and of course the MC must possess all the same values as they do otherwise they will get offended and can't self-insert.
>the Chinese and Koreans are getting in on it
The Chinese and Koreans have been at it longer than the nips have. It's horrifying.
Korean mahwa have always been derivative of the most bottom of the barrel and generic shonnen/shojo manga (there are some exceptions Priest for example) and the Chinese version is even more derivative, they're copies of copies. It doesn't help a lot of them have "good" art at first glance but it's always too good, lacking in an individual style or idiosyncrasies, a lot of the Chinese comics end up looking like they were made by a dozen artists. That and we're really fucking biased in favor of Japanese art
Ok , but what is wrong with trainning without cheats . With cheats , doesn't MC already have advantage from the start ? Balance , hello ?
Depends on the cheat, big head mode isn't very useful. Or they're just that shit.
English, please.
>I love when a title has the word "cheat" in it's name
Me too, lets you know what to avoid right there. Also anyone notice that you can just tell what's an iseaki at first glance by the cover
>Generic Japanese looking male (teenage, skinny, eye length shaggy usually black, sometimes brown occasionally white hair)
>At least one blonde/blue eyed noble looking female knight/princess bonus if both
>At least one animal eared girl
>Multiple females around said male
>Distinct lack of other males
I know some of these fit normal fantasy manga but still it's like theres a formula that every iseaki needs for it's covers
>a lot of the Chinese comics end up looking like they were made by a dozen artists.
This is sadly due to how competitive their field is thanks to their population. Large supply low demand means artists often get pushed to burn out, and once they do they get swapped out since their publishers simply don't care. This isn't even getting into the jewishness of the big companies, like how Song of the Long March got axed because they won't respect the author's wishes and tried to jew her.
There are exceptions of course, like Chen Mou, but you have to be real special to get any decent treatment, and Chen still works bi-weekly meaning he pumps out chapters faster than even Yukimura let alone Miura.
I feel like isekai actually break the mold by featuring the MC on the cover so often.
Most light novels would rather just plaster a single girl on the cover each novel.
>what if there was an isekai where we took a NEET
>and just shat on him as hard as possible in a "realistic" medieval setting
Why does this "original" idea pop up in seemingly every isekai thread?
Unironically Hyakuren. The author was an established and experienced writer already so unlike most amateur webfic authors he took some time to research properly and pick a specific crop rotation (Norfolk system), have roadblocks to the implementation (farmers can't grasp the idea of crops actually restoring nutrient to the soil instead of taking it so can't understand not having a fallow period), a plausible explanation for how it was overcome (the MC has absolute dictatorial authority which was granted in an emergency crisis and never given up) and plausible method for how the MC seems to know stuff in enough detail to make it happen (he brought his phone with him which can still get a signal on a full moon next to a magic mirror and he bought textbooks and shit on Kindle while someone on the other side pays his internet bill). Even for stuff like introducing how to make iron in the bronze age, he worked in his dad's japanese blacksmith forge so he knows by heart how to extract iron from iron sand, but it still takes six months and a magical girl to make it happen.
the MC also had trouble when he first arrived since he's never done field manual labor or fought in a war in his life, his stomach can't even tolerate their shitty bronze age tier bread, and he had to learn the language from scratch otherwise the only person he can speak to is the priestess with magic language runes.
all in all its a series that actually had some thought put in by the writer. Which makes it more aggravating that the anime sucked
Because so many people just want something that shits on all the things they take issue with in isekai, but they don't actually know how to come up with an interesting story.
>phonepsoter
>crossborder
>all those (You)s
impressive Yea Forums
Most of Yea Forums posters are newfags and tourists.
Forgot my pic
Reminder that the author of bronze age isekai hyakuren is a
>single dad
>couldn't afford childcare during his working hours because of the demand to work late
>couldn't get financial assistance for childcare because it's only for single mothers
>couldn't find a job at the job centre with shorter working hours that would let him take care of his daughter because they were all for women only
>had to quit his job and became a writer instead so he could work from home and decide his own hours and have time to raise his daughter
Maybe having life and work experience and responsibilities gives one the depth of character and experience to write thoughtfully unlike some NEET who can only copy garbage he read on narou.
Thanks, OP. Added to my backlog.
>Large supply low demand means artists often get pushed to burn out
No kidding, I've been reading a Chinese manga recently and a few weeks ago there was an artists note about how he had to slow down because he has a day job, gets home whenever, draws in the evenings, sleeps at 2-3am and has to wake up at 7am. He does about 20 pages a week on his own. Luckily for him he wasn't writing the story too.
Good. World building like that is one of the biggest appeals of the fantasy genre.
kasane is actually great
Overlord had a snippet about crop rotation, but it wasn't from the isekai'd guy (although she may have been isekai'd herself, I don't know).
>Muscle Magic
>Bard Lowen
>To You the Immortal
If you look hard you can find the diamonds in a sea of shit
>Rudi trained but people still cry.
they are just retarded
more often than not poor salarymen gets isekai'd to a fantasy world with magic or a world with cultivators
giving them too much power to compensate for being 20 to 10000 years behind everyone else in that world is cheap as fuck and makes it impossible to root for MC because him owning everyone is par for the course
instead MC must suffer the same trials as the other people from that world but in a much shorter timespan than they have
one good example would be The Tutorial Is Too Hard
MC goes through hell and back to get strong and still gets owned every now and then by people who simply have more experience, there's no "oxygen and punch harder" or RPG stat wankery despite the presence of both skills and blessings/consumables
Why is 15 the age of adulthood in all the isekai? It's never 14 or 16, always 15. Is everyone just copying Mushoku Tensei?
>they are just retarded
Well yes that's the point.
This may hurt you but it's simply because you haven't read enough. Your sample size is too small and you just coincidentally read the 15 year old = adult ones.
>Well yes that's the point.
no, what I meant is that isekai'd MC who suddenly got a power MUST suffer, otherwise it's like reading about someone who finds a BFG lying on the ground and proceeds to defeat the demon lord in one shot
what's the point if there are no stakes and no character progression?
>if you don't like garbage then you're a shonenfag
Sure thing my man. Go back to feeling superior for enjoying retarded power fantasies about a blank self-insert MC who gets thrown on a Dragon Quest clone setting and instantly gains godlike power and a harem of beautiful girls. It's fitting that these stories originate from the Japanese equivalent of fanfiction.net since their quality is the same.
>Good. World building like that is one of the biggest appeals of the fantasy genre.
You can world build without having it delivered in long monologues from random NPCs/snide after-the-fact summarizations from the snarky NEET MC.
Based.
>what's the point if there are no stakes and no character progression?
Entertainment doesn't lie just in power progression and high-stakes battles. Not everything is a shonen manga.
>Why is 15 the common age throughout human history where most people are considered men/women are married off considered adulthood.
Dumb oni
I was thinking the same thing OP, I think it just shows that people reading manga are mostly white male teens
>>what's the point if there are no stakes and no character progression?
A story is whatever the author wants it to be, someone like you may find it pointless but what everyone seeks from a story is different. Just as there are stories that read like absolute shit due to the lack of stakes and no character progression, there are also stories that are absolute shit rather because of the stakes and character progression. Similarly the same applies to a story with no stakes nor character progression, there will be good and bad, ultimately these are merely variables in a story, and a story is a formula, it doesn't need specific variables.
Not being able to accept this is akin to not accepting different opinions.
Isekai are usually just badly written battle harems set in a generic fantasy world. Pretty ironic to see isekaifags use "at least we don't like battle harems" as a defense.
Isekai don't need more original plots or settings.
I'd gladly read a generic isekai plot if the author took an interesting tone throughout the series, had good pacing, and fun characters with better written interactions.
Chasing after novel concepts but keeping the same boring themes/tone/plot development is why most isekai suck.
>there are also stories that are absolute shit rather because of the stakes and character progression
can you give me an example of a novel or manga where stakes and character progression are a bad thing?
>I think it just shows that people reading manga are mostly white male teens
Are you genuinely retarded?
Not off the bat but there's Game of Thrones no?
I love medieval fantasy and hate the Narou isekai boom for flooding the genre with a shitty stories that are full of awful characters, have little to no plot and are set in a worlds that explicitly work like video games.
Every Shonen Jump manga that starts out as a light-hearted comedic series that proceeds to make an abrupt shift to fights and power level escalation when its ratings start falling at the expense of its original appeal.
Shokugeki no Soma.
Stakes can be bad when they're inorganically forced into the story to ramp up tension. Sometimes a story doesn't need high stakes to be entertaining but the author feels compelled to insert drama anyways and pisses everyone off. A bad example would be CAD, since it was horribly unfunny to begin with but only proceeded to jump the shark harder with LOSS.
Bleach.
Outragefags get their jollies out of being outraged at something and isekaishit is a easy target.
you could say that about any genre shift
if it's no longer the same manga you picked up then it's natural to drop it
kek
well to be fair anything done poorly would turn off the readers, it's not specific to muh stakes and muh character progression
I was pretty miffed when the anime skipped volume 3. That was the volume that really showed his struggle to adapt and be accepted as a fish out of water and also how he fucked up despite having access to future knowledge because of his inability to judge people properly, which is so rare in isekai these days.
Isekai with OP MCs are as boring as watching someone play a video game with God mode on. There's no tension and these stories are too badly written and too generic to have anything else that is of interest.
>You can world build without having it delivered in long monologues from random NPCs/snide after-the-fact summarizations from the snarky NEET MC.
That got nothing to do with the setting though, but rather with the author's writing skills.
>Isekai with OP MCs are as boring as watching someone play a video game with God mode on. There's no tension and these stories are too badly written and too generic to have anything else that is of interest.
Implying that after watching/reading tens or even hundreds of "MUH underdog MC!" shounen series you aren't already completely desensitized to "tension" anyway...
>42 year old "shachiku" (company slave)
Why the fuck is a LN/ Manga appealing to old men? Do they they fucking read real books or newspapers?
They are just hypocrites wasting their lives trying to convince random strangers on Yea Forums to circle jerk to their shit taste. I don't know why you would think pointing out their fallacies would result in anything productive.
I'd rather read a story about an underdog MC than one about an MC that effortlessly annihilates anyone that dares to think of opposing him.
Yes everyone knows that, you've been repeating yourself for 5 years now.
It's even worse when an MC is handed God Mode but he's still a useless motherfucker who tiptoes around using it because he's afraid of "standing out".
Doubly so when a bunch of tragedy happens because MC was "hiding his true strength" but because he saves the day at the end after a bunch of terrible things have happened anyways everyone praises him still.
Yeah, that's pretty terrible.
Even trips of truth are supporting isekai now? How the tables have turned.
Well, have fun with your predictable always "perfectly scaling" antagonists who are just about strong enough that the MC can overcome them with the next training arc. Oh, and the inevitable power-creep too.
I mean wasn't Goku quite conveniently lucky that his enemies always scale up progressively alongside him? Imagine if Cell appeard before Frieza, or any other enemy from "later on" just so happened to appear earlier on. It would be a one-shot certain loss. But hey, appearently stuff like that is somehow "good writing" now.
Series name?
You do realize that you can have MCs facing challenging opponents outside of long running battle shonen series, right?
>absolute dogshit
Fuck you faggot, Sword dad is good
That's more an issue with power levels.
Also, if you think perfect scaling is bad, wait until you see no scaling. The final boss being off screened by another character is unsatisfying as fuck. I'm looking at you Dungeon Seeker.
Pretty sure the stupid OP doesn't even know about it
But that would require looking at "other" variables too! But I was told that "tension" is supposedly the only variable that matters, so I was giving the only example that literally maximized that single variable while disregarding everything else.
If you say that tension is just "one variable among many" then the original argument I was responding to falls apart.
In addition "challenging opponents" are something for specifically action or sport genres. Just because it's isekai or fantasy doesn't mean it's part of the action genre too, yet somehow I see people twisting things to be like that for some reason.
It's true, look at the numbers
Oh look, the numbers say that the majority of manga is consumed by Japanese teens.
Who would've fucking thought?
>The final boss being off screened by another character is unsatisfying as fuck.
Riiiiight... because side-characters or side-kicks jobbing to the final boss is not the most boringly predictable plot point at all! How dare someone break that unspoken rule! The "final boss" is only for the MC to defeat!
Where?
Go back to read my first post in this discussion, namely "these stories are too badly written and too generic to have anything else that is of interest". Of course you can have stories without fighting or conflict, however these generic Naru isekai almost always have the MC fighting enemies or monsters. What the hell would be the point of them being made so OP if they never used all their maxed skills and cheat powers after all? And if the combat is boring as fuck there's less tension than there'd be watching a human stepping on and crushing a few ants then that sure as hell is a problem.
I still think being a fish out of water is something that happens far too rarely in isekai. Being in this strange environment with a strange language and culture to see new and unusual things is supposed to be part and parcel of most stories about travelling to a foreign land. It's part of the adventure to experience fantastical events and places at the limits of the imagination. Not Dragon Quest Clone #166 LMAO
What's even worse are the self-aware isekai where the MC is familiar with all the isekai tropes and plays along with them.
How dare they? I said it was unsatisfying not that they "dared to break an unspoken rule" you illiterate faggot.
You're missing the point. Modern isekai isn't about going to a foreign land to experience strange things and fuel the writer's worldbuilding boner. It's about going to a comfortable place where everything goes MY way
It's not part of the "action" genre. Again, you are basically presuming that just because it's isekai or fantasy and that the MC is OP, that it "has to have exciting battles" for some reason. But that's not the case. Rather showing an OP MC early on basically lets you know that you shouldn't read/watch it while expecting grandiose fights.
Admittedly some isekai do try to shove such action scenes into the story despite having OP MCs but then those are either really the bad isekai, or otherwise the action scenes are just a "side-dish", like how Death March makes most fight against Demon Lord just some sort of semi-comedic side-quest while being on the main quest called "finding cooking ingredients".
>to experience strange things
No it is about experiencing strange things. Then it's about setting those strange things straight by forcing your moral beliefs onto the natives, e.g. removing all "backwards thinking" like discrimination towards demi-humans.
>All of them are absolute dogshit
>sword dad is in there
Op is an absolute faggot
Oh, the ancient Romans that "bring culture to the savage barbarians" are back!
It says a lot about the "genre" when Konosuba, a series based entirely around making fun of the premise, is the most highly rated one.
>Konosuba, making fun
Not really it ended up as literally the same thing in the end
>making fun of the premise
>turns into another isekai romcom
parody my ass, it has every cliche under the sun
Anime when?
Saucenao can't find it, is it neither on dex nor goddess? What the fuck? If you want to raise awareness please say the name of the series.
Which series do you consider to be good isekai?
If a series has battles then I'd like them to be interesting or to serve a purpose beyond showing off how overpowered the MC is.
I liked how JK Haru had the isekaied otaku be a lazy entitled asshole who expects everything to go his way and for every woman to unconditionally love him with no absolutely effort on his part.
What? Most isekai MCs go native and happily kill anyone that opposes them or collect slave harems.
That's one of the problems though. Any new Urban Fantasy series will be compared to TM stuff and unless it's a literal masterpiece, it will just be brushed off as either trash or a "copycat" series.
Isekai where the MC reincarnated as a hive mind of a race of insectoid and use his strategy skill to help his race become the dominant liveform of that world.
There are a shitload of self-aware isekai. Konosuba isn't special.
But TM only made Fate though.
Αpart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Let me tell you something. You are not searching for it desperately enough. Google the chapter name on the coloured page and wa la
>But TM only made Fate though.
Also all the Fate spin-offs, as well as Kara no Kyoukai
Yes but the (willing) slave harems are usually diverse and thinking of demi-humans as anything other than exactly the same as a human is usually portrayed as backwards and evil.
I am just talking about the basic idea of "bringing culture to the savage barbarians". The Romans' actual success rate or lasting impact got nothing to do with that.
Both are those are heavy rip offs from boogiepop novels
The problem with isekai is the fucking video game shit. 90% of isekai does it and it's retarded.
Boogiepop is truly the father of modern LN
Yumi is more energy efficient than British longbow but generally had lower draw weight. In reality they would be similar with slight edge for Yumi. But most powerful longbows were more powerful then most powerful Yumi.
Both are worse than Korean, Mongol and Turkish composite bows.
Man is reincarnated in a fantasy world, forms a party, kills the demon king then goes home. No fucking stupid meme "original" premise used to try and act like you aren't creatively bankrupt
I could just play Dragon Quest with that story you know.
Man is reincarnated as a demon in the standard Dragon Quest world. Then chapter 2 reveals that all the humans are sadistic edgelords and the demons are the oppressed good guys.
Grandpa/grandma, It's old enough that new normalfags and mainstreamfags don't get it anymore
I miss chuuni Urban Fantasy series desu
>In a situation like this, people in the stories always find the Adventurers guild first!
The worst
>I liked how JK Haru had the isekaied otaku be a lazy entitled asshole who expects everything to go his way and for every woman to unconditionally love him with no absolutely effort on his part
>All he brings up are anime I’ve never heard of, and when I try to adapt to his tastes by mentioning Conan, he only makes fun of me
Chiba is /our guy/
Play aselia
>hero summoning goes wrong and the transit takes too long in that world's time
>summoned to the dilapidated capital of a fallen kingdom after the demon king already won
>has to figure out what it means to be a hero in a world beyond saving
>let's shit on isekai thread
>let's argue about isekai definition thread
I hate you all.
>Which series do you consider to be good isekai?
>If a series has battles then I'd like them to be interesting or to serve a purpose beyond showing off how overpowered the MC is.
Reincarnated as a Slime would be a good example.
It doesn't actually have many battles but they do serve a specific purpose, since they display Rimuru's current state of mind.
The Ifrit battle covers two birds with one stone, as on one hand it shows Rimuru's complete ignorance of his new world and how it functions (showing regret at not using certain powers because they felt "too dangerous" to him) having him mostly rely on Great Sage for the entire battle, while on the other hand the removal of Ifrit signals the end of Shizu's journey that was shown alongside Rimuru's story throughout the first LN volume (or right before the battle in the anime), while both of their stories build a contrast to each other, Rimuru having the "lucky lot" of being isekai'd, while Shizue pulled the short straw of having her entire journey being comparable to a classic "Greek Hero's journey of suffering culminating in death" despite also being isekai'd.
Orc Disaster likewise only became a "villain" due to neccessity. While he might have seemed like a mindless devouring monster that only followed its instincts at first, he was in reality a caring king that could only take desperate measures to save his people. Ironically Rimuru defeated him by relying on his predatorial instincts while also becoming less dependent on Great Sage. And any time Rimuru gains a new Unique Skill, which is the literal "shape of the mind" engraved on the soul, he basically takes on the wills of those he consumes, e.g. taking care of Shizu's students/Leon for Shizu and taking care of the Orc Horde for Orc Disaster.
Charybdis was just there to show that Rimuru wasn't actually all that overpowered at that point, also a way to show that he was basically only used as a medium for schemes directed at Milim and ignored otherwise.
Not really. You just dislike it taste-wise and it just happens to be badly written in most cases, but it's not neccessarily inherently bad.
GS exists
What you need to know is that it really kicked off from 2012-2013. You are only now getting adaptions of the earliest narou works we haven't even touched some of the more recent stuff. You're in for a wild ride, praise the golden era of isekai!
Read Tsuyokute New Saga if that's what you want. It's timetravel where the MC is the Hero who managed to kill the Demon Lord but received a mortal wound himself, but then finds some sort of "Dragon Crystal" and gets his mind sent back far into his body in the past.
based boomers
Reincarnated as a Slime was pretty bad. The fights have the usual setup of villains mocking the MC for looking so weak before getting curbstomped by him. The MC receiving instructions on how to win in addition to being given insane powers also helps trivialize any encounter he has. And the slime gimmick is quickly jettisoned when the MC gains the ability to assume human form.
Goblin Slayer is better than a lot of shitty isekai, but it still uses dumb tropes like the adventuring guild and has the entire world be stupid so that the MC appears smart.
>hero summoning goes wrong and the transit takes too long
>the kingdom gets sick of waiting so they reboot their summoning circle by unplugging it, waiting a few seconds then plugging it back in
>the hero is dumped on a random planet between the two worlds where there's no humanoid life and now must survive
>every dozen or so chapters of suffering there's a short cut to the 2nd set of heroes having fun in their generic isekai
Goblin Slayer's based on D&D you dumbass.
The best of them all is Solo Leveling. Fucking gookshit managed to top all these trashy isekais with beta protagonists.
What's the actual story though? An edgy premise isn't a plot
Not only did you ignore pretty much everything I said, you also pretend that the whole "mocking for looking so weak" happened at any point other than those mob adventurers in Dwargon... I guess Phobio also said that but he did it more in a sulking way, as his conversation with his companions afterwards proves that he does understand how extraordinary the town Rimuru built was.
In other words your "criticism" is complete bullshit.
That's not an isekai though, it's not even in a new fantasy world, it's Earth with portals to dungeons.
The plot is to survive a wasteland, the fuck more do you want? Him to fuck a cat girl?
I know what D&D is like as I've been a fan of the game for over 20 years. Goblin Slayer draws some inspiration from tabletop games but it still uses a ton of stuff from JRPGs or Japanese fantasy stories. E.g. D&D doesn't have 'adventurer guilds' or monsters that reproduce by raping human women. Also dumb subversions such as goblin children braining powerful adventurers wouldn't be possible in D&D.
>The plot is to survive a wasteland
Why do I care about whether this person with no supporting cast or backstory survives? Why do we keep cutting to an unrelated fantasy world for no other reason than to rub in the audiences face that the MC is fucked?
I like how you admit that the series used the 'MC appears weak but is really strong' trope but then claimed it doesn't count and you ignored my other points. Nice rebuttal.
Urban isekai? Is that a thing? Like GATE except more shit?
I wish we got more reverse isekai
are there any good post-apocalipse isekai?
Fallout 4
>draws some inspiration from tabletop games
>constant talk about rolling the dice
>pictures of miniatures for broad story elements
>they literally play a tabletop game in the manga
>D&D doesn't have 'adventurer guilds'
Depends on the DM, I've seen a few that use adventurers guilds.
>monsters that reproduce by raping human women
Neither do JRPG's, but a DM can do that if he's edgy enough.
>Also dumb subversions such as goblin children braining powerful adventurers wouldn't be possible in D&D.
It's entirely possible in D&D, it's all up to the DM. Not goblins but close enough.
1d4chan.org
However, it's not likely in a JRPG and it's even less likely in an Isekai.
>Why do I care about whether this person with no supporting cast or backstory survives?
You could say the same about any Isekai. Why do you care the guy who was summoned to defeat Demon King #28477 and unlocked Cheat stats at Level 1 survives?
I just explained how it isn't an Isekai and I just described the setting to a manga meaning it does exist.
Are you retarded or are you just pretending to be?
The points you brought up have nothing to do with my earlier points and/or operate on the false premise that Slime is an action series, which it is not.
And the underestimation was more of an example of Rimuru's mindset again, as the idea that "he tries too hard to be friendly to the point that he is mistaken for being spineless" is a major plot point in the series, since he could have easily scared off the adventurers if he had just released his aura, but then he probably wouldn't be able to get into Dwargon so easily and inwardly Rimuru didn't get over the fact that he is no longer a human yet.
In the Harvest Festival arc Rimuru's overly idealistic speech during the alliance-treaty signing ceremony in Dwargon, like Gazel predicted, caused the Falmas Kingdom to take Rimuru lightly as a ruler based on his actions, not the fact that he is a slime.
Your brain seems unable to comprehend anything unless you just reduce everything to a single variable like "being underestimated equals cheap shock factor, therefore the series is shit" and ignore everything else while just spouting some random buzzwords that are based on a false premise like your "trivialize any encounter" non-sense that's directly contradicted by the Orc Disaster encounter where Rimuru outright tells Great Sage to leave things to him, not to mention it's irrelevant anyway because that "criticism" is based on your false premise that Slime is supposedly an action-based series.
>Depends on the DM, I've seen a few that use adventurers guilds.
D&D settings have guilds about specific professions (like a mage or a thief guild), not guilds for adventurers that anyone can just sign up to and that handle everything from locating lost pets to defeating demon lords.
>Neither do JRPG's, but a DM can do that if he's edgy enough.
Orcs/goblins reproducing by raping human women is something I've seen referenced in ton of isekai stories. It's pretty standard in Japanese fantasy stories and it doesn't originate in D&D.
>1d4chan.org
I had read the story ages ago in Dragon and it involves enemies using ambushes, traps and terrain to their advantage. A small goblin child taking out an experienced adventurer with a rock when experienced adventurers are able to fight toe to toe with dragons or demons is pretty dumb.
they don't host licensed shit dipshit
that'd be mecha.
Capeshit isn't dead in America.
>no, what I meant is that isekai'd MC who suddenly got a power MUST suffer, otherwise it's like reading about someone who finds a BFG lying on the ground and proceeds to defeat the demon lord in one shot
>what's the point if there are no stakes and no character progression?
You know, this is more than a bit of bullshit. If you have a MC whose victory in the end is predetermined by the format of your story, just stop pretending and let the readers enjoy the story for what it is. Level grinding stories (even if level grinding is figurative) are horribly overused already. And you can in fact write the plot around the fact that MC is fucking invincible or at most can be challenged by like two people in the whole world. Just give something to care about which can be taken away without beating him up directly, or invent new hilarious ways for him to BTFO smug villains. You know, Akagi was a pretty good manga, edgy shitposters notwithstanding, even though from the beginnig readers knew that MC will be undefeated.
>D&D settings have guilds about specific professions (like a mage or a thief guild)
I just said I've seen a few that use adventurers guilds, not class guilds. They don't do the whole demon lord stuff or visible rankings but they're there for info, the odd quest and sometimes NPC recruitment.
>Orcs/goblins reproducing by raping human women is something I've seen referenced in ton of isekai stories
I specifically didn't include Isekai's in that part. JRPG's don't do that at all though and a DM CAN do it if he wants, he's the god of his world.
>A small goblin child taking out an experienced adventurer with a rock when experienced adventurers are able to fight toe to toe with dragons or demons is pretty dumb.
Sounds like an ambush to me. Maybe it coup de grace's from ambush, maybe health and AC work differently, maybe rocks to the head stun on ambush, I don't fucking know.
You sound really hung up on the fact that it's not 100% like D&D that you've seen, that doesn't change the fact that it's heavily based on it.
>MC whose victory in the end is predetermined by the format of your story
that is never true unless the story is written from an autobiography angle or as a flashback
>even though from the beginnig readers knew that MC will be undefeated.
>implying Washizu never stood a chance
you couldn't have known that unless you got spoiled after manga has ended
>Violenza Domestica
Now that's some power name
It has combat and the combat is shit. And a series whose premise is that the MC is reincarnated as the weakest monster in the world but who immediately gains insane power and the ability to assume human form is crap.
>A small goblin child taking out an experienced adventurer with a rock when experienced adventurers are able to fight toe to toe with dragons or demons is pretty dumb.
Never underestimate the combination of player stupidity combined with role-playing rules. If the rock hits and has enough effect incapacitate the adventurer, it does. Of course the more modern and 'epic' variants would have their asspulled damage reductions. "I'm so tough guy now that you stone hitting the back of my neck does absolutely nothing anymore."
A DM can do whatever the hell he wants, but that doesn't change the fact that these elements don't originate from D&D. I could run a D&D game full of dickgirls but that wouldn't mean that dickgirls are part of D&D. And I specifically stated that Goblin Slayer draws inspiration from Japanese fantasy stories in addition to JRPG tropes.
>Sounds like an ambush to me.
Tucker's kobolds were experienced warriors using traps, murder holes and proper weapons, not a child with a rock.
A goblin child should have shit stealth abilities so it shouldn't be able to sneak up on an adventurer. Even if it somehow did, then it should have a crap attack bonus/THAC0 so it shouldn't be able to hit them. Even assuming it got a natural 20 then it would have a negative strength bonus and would do 1 or 2 hp of damage. This sort of thing would be impossible to happen without DM fiat.
Dungeon meshi
Also has stupidly deep worldbuilding bc it looks like thats what everyone is begging for
There are a handful of gems like Stands Still Stay Silent though
Just stay away from big comic /film companies. Passion works have a higher chance of being decent
Rimuru was never described as "weak". The fact that you bring such a thing up and didn't realize this fact after the first few lines/pages/episode-minutes after reincarnation shows that you are a brainlet. And others mistaking him for weak due to his race happens once or twice in the entire series and is used to show Rimuru's ignorance about the new world and his lingering attachment to being a former human in the early parts of the series and not just, like you imply, for the NANI!? SUGOI! factor.
And I already explained the combat and your only response up until now was a "very oh so convincing" statement of "it's shit". Oh no, that was a too stronk argument for me to handle!
Do you guys consider things like Sword Art Online to be Isekai? I do personally, even though it might not technically be.
No. Hard no.
no
>still responding to this normalfag
user just tell him he’s retarded and to fuck off or something.
What's the difference?
when it comes to vrmmo series, i don't consider it isekai unless it's like sheddy where it's actually another world and the players just think it's a game world
That's not isekai then you fucking mongoloid.
It's explicit that they are in video game and not transported into another world that is exactly like the video game. Simple as that.
The narrative is also important to look at because there are plot points that tie to them being stuck in the video game on earth not in another world.
FUCK ISEKAI
FUCK JAPANESE
FUCK JAPAN
It's honestly splitting hairs. It reminds me of Yea Forums making sub-sub-sub-genre's of music.
It really isn't.
If you can simply kill/delete or forcefully eject someone from the "other world" by destroying all the servers, backups and databases that "world" runs on, then it's not really a different world and therefore not an isekai. Only exception is if someone from that other world can materialize themselves on Earth without needing some sort of vessel, which means Digimon is an isekai despite being about a "virtual world" too. SAO isn't.
Okay so if Maine/Myne is so widely read then why does she keep asking poorfag medieval peasants for paper and books like a retard and acting shocked and surprised that one piece of paper is like a year's wages for a poorfag
>No cheats, just molotovs and kitchen science.
Then how does he fight court mages that can bend the forces of nature to their own will?
Because it's just another garbage
>removing all "backwards thinking" like discrimination towards demi-humans.
I fail to remember any isekai MC that actually tried to change to status quo. Not even one.
please fucking go and end yourself
This one somewhat tries, it's just not one of his primary goals. His methods are a bit different too.
That dude doesn't even care. He only wants to end the goddess's rule. Then whatever happens after isn't of his concern. Monsters, demons and hyumans can genocide and enslave each other for eternity and he still won't interfere.
more molotovs
Unless your IRA guy gets isekai'd into a shitty world like the Gate one, he will need an actual modern army with tanks, fighter jets, artillery and everything to fight a world with literal magic.
He doesn't even want to end her rule, just punish her a bit. The kind of interference he tries involves removing a group from the location of the problem, although it also benefits him too. His company is also more likely to accept payment to support defending a group of non-humans than to help hyumans. The other one trying to change a type of government is just using the stupidest way possible.
Aliens come down and Scientologically isekai a bunch of young Japanese schoolgirls into yakuza and vice versa, then place them on Pitcairn Island and tell them they've got four months to build a ship and get away before the volcano erupts. The schoolgirls must keep their bodies safe from the pedophiles native to Pitcairn while the yakuza must help the schoolgirls with the finer points of shipbuilding.
I'm not trying to argue it's not different, I'm arguing it should be classified as the same genre.
>The other one trying to change a type of government is just using the stupidest way possible.
To be fair, the female hero is a most responsible one among the three. She actual cares for people and wants to make a stable society while MC only cares for his immediate circle and Tomoki only cares for himself.
She's also willing to sacrifice thousands of souls to remove the MC and enslave the survivors of the demons if she wins.
Because Makoto is irresponsible. If he had given her a detail plan about how he would stabilized the world after removing the goddess and what kind of future society he envisioned when they talked, he would have been able to convince her to join his cause.
Arc from skeleton knight iirc
I don't think he even plans to remove the goddess, just hit her enough for what she did, and maybe she will change too as a consequence.
The one in the top left, Ragnarok, and House Husband are all getting translated. Heaven's Design Team and North-Northwest got licensed. Astra's getting an anime. Don't know about the rest.
She is a goddess of creation and a very petty one. If he defeats her but doesn't make her loose her power, she will continue to try to take revenge on him and his friends for eternity, he should understands such simple logic.
He's recently learned that killing a threat can cause later problems from others. He will probably end up either replacing her, or she will be bound to him somehow too and forced to work toward his goals.
flavor of the month is a phrase describing passing trends, not an actual measure of time. kind of like 15 minutes of fame
It'll probably be something dumb like he will get so powerful he'll make a replacement god to manage everything.
>You can get away with so much shit you wouldn't in a regular fantasy
That's such a bullshit statement, you can't get away with shit because the people who care about those things will still complain they won't just magically say "welp that's an isekai so i guess i have to accept it as it is".
He actually didn't learn anything. He didn't even think that squashing that girls' head was wrong, that's why instead of apologizing to her friend, he mind broke her and turned her into a potato. The only question he took from that whole accident is that if he is going to kill someone, he should also deal with her friends to prevent further problems, which could easily lead to the future Shiva feared, that he would one day join his rank by destroying the world after killing the goddess.
Other gods already delegate some jobs to others. He might be given that world as another gift by the other three that helped him before once he can be considered a proper god of creation/destruction, although his own world is still going to be his primary focus.
He doesn't deserve to be the god of anything from what I see so far
>the age of the mc is X so the customer base must be X too
Next you are going to tell me that shows about little girl idols are not watched primarily by middle aged guys.
she has bad memory
Evidence should already show that how much they deserve it really doesn't matter that much.
It just isn't though.
Do you know what the word should means?
Then don't add more to the problems by adding more stupid shits
Read The Wandering Inn.
I disagree about that. A simulation is a simulation. A different world is a different world.
For example, if you go along the route of Reality Warping, at some point you wouldn't be able to really differentiate between Fantasy-based Reality Warping and Sci-Fi-based Reality Warping anymore (thanks to Clarke's Third Law). And yet even then Fantasy is Fantasy and Sci-Fi is Sci-Fi, despite being indistinguishable "at the moment", since you can still clearly point to the origins of each, as one started from magic and the other from technology so you can still split them up into their respective genres (taking aside stuff like the Raildex franchise which uses both).
So the same should apply to VRMMORPG simulations Sci-Fi and Otherworld Transmigration/Reincarnation/Summoning Fantasy.
The way I would define this genre is a fish out of water story. Someone from the current world transported in some way to another world. I would even consider distant time-travel to be included in this. VRMMO and "isekai" play out the same way, the only difference is in chapter 1. Yes, there may be other differences down the road, but every story differs to some degree and it's negligible. I think you're being dishonest if you can't agree that they are mostly similar and could be grouped together under some genre. I mean think of how broad some groups are: comedy, drama, etc. Even more specific niche genre's like sci-fi vary more widely than my definition of "isekai" does.
If anything, he is more likely to become a godslayer, like Kratos.
There will be plenty more added once Tomoe gets her breeding project started.
>than my definition of "isekai" does.
No one cares about your definition of "other world", a vrmmo is not another world it's simple as that, especially considering that it being part of the world is not rarely a major point in the story not just
>the only difference is in chapter 1. Yes, there may be other differences down the road
that's retarded, take SAO as an example even you should know, the fact that it is not a separate world is absolutely necessary to the story, you can't just go and group it with isekai.
>comedy drama fantasy and scifi are the same type of genre as isekai
>they vary more
They do because they are very generic for example a drama story can be virtually anything purely because drama has so few defining features, but those features are there and can't be just ignored so that you can widen the definition.
ie a drama without drama can't be a drama.
In the same way a story can't be an isekai if there is no other world, just because you think the story has tropes that many isekai stories use.
I prefer campione style godslayers but faggot isn't based or chad enough
>faggot isn't based or chad enough
Who?
Opinions on my isekai
>Isekai wa cheat no skill wa slave no harem wa dungeon no elf wa tensei no yuusha?
>Most light novels would rather just plaster a single girl on the cover each novel.
I have no idea what you're talking about
I guess a lotta people just want to gtfo out of this miserable life
I mean if there was a reset button I'd press the shit out of it too
The immersive thing about Berserk is that instead of doing just in story time-skips, the author actually stops writing for the same amount of time.
Reminds me of that one guy in the 12 Kingdoms anime who gets isekai'd with the MC and goes insane because he can't speak the language of the Kingdoms.
>implying Washizu never stood a chance
>you couldn't have known that unless you got spoiled after manga has ended
Akagi's title was a spin-off of Ten, where Space Akagi was a major character; it would've been hard to have him there if he died against Washizu in the past - it was common knowledge he would survive, just as it was common knowledge Anakin would have twin kids at the end of prequel trilogy
new chap of Lv2
actual MC is revealed
it popularized anime based on Webnovels which 90% of just happens to be isekai
Why?
Isekai stories are the worst kind of medieval fantasies because they do absolutely nothing with it and just wear it's skin while tacking on whatever other element they want onto the setting.
No he means fantasy
Native Isekai != Fantasy unless you were some buttblasted GS fag.
>GS
It's Native Isekai you retard.
I'm talking about mangadex you fucking retards
Can't you recognize OP's picture?
None of the problems in GOT have to do with stakes and character progression.
Yes
Everyone who says no is a faggot.
t. seething Native Isekai denier.
Based, i fucking love it too. Especially all the music, setting and the girls in general.
Only digicuck watching normalfags hate it
Asterisk war was more or less the final academy battle harem with a big budget, but the trend was already dying during the start of 2015. Remember the 5 battle harem challenge in Winter that year? All of them flopped. The decline was already present around then.
>With squinting eyes, flabby cheeks, and an oiled moustache and beard, he was not a handsome man by any means, but she couldn't help but wonder what it would be like to lay beneath him, a passing thought that both disgusted and intrigued her. All that weight atop her, pressing her back into the satin silk sheets, helpless before his power...
>Calm yourself girl, this is work, not pleasure. The old man isn't around to look after you, so stay focused.
Holy shit, another Darkness ou tof fucking nowhere.
Dude I fucking tried to learn the language along with the MC and loved it. I was disappointed that they eventually switched to Japanese, I was getting some decent vocab built up. I later found an actual dictionary for the language.
another one
it's native isekai this time
Holy shit imagine actually defending the asterisk war. How fucking old are you?
more recent example
Really isekai is more of a blend of fanbases than just one in it of itself
Some like isekai as a concept of a average guy going to another world and being relevant, you probably wouldn't offend people by making that person underpowered or even suffer but it's all about exploring another world entirely
There just fantasy fans that were complaining about the lack of western fantasy anime/manga. The medium is more sci-fi focused and even today it's more about urban fantasy so having a flood of fantasy series, even though shallow has a "well this'll do" feel to it
Monster-girl fans are going to gather due to the obligatory beast-kin races
For haremfags isekai takes even less effort to get a harem than mainstays in the genre (and that's saying something)
There are the sub-genres of otome, tensei, time-travel, VRMMO, etc which all have their own fanbases
People that actually want series of a superbeing just rolfstomping everything
and people who are just wary of all the obligatory drama whether it's appropriate for a series or not
Kill yourself normalfag.
Reminder.
It was more like he got hired for by the elf for liberation missions, but he mainly drifts around with her to figure out what to do. Those that want to impose their order might be closer to demon lord material.
Well?
This is just another plotless garbage. It amazes me that this actually get 68k views per chapter when it's just so simplistic and so one note
This stuff is what gets translated because it's easy to get raws and the fanbase eats dog food
We live in dire times.
Toned down magic and dirty bombs. What's a mage going to do against isekai mustard gas?
It's not that they go out of their way to try and change it, it's that through their actions of beating all the evil anti-demi-human guys and being pro-demi-human it's changed regardless.
How about appreciate lolis become semen demons?
The new chapter for Isekai Death Game was on there for a bit so there's still some hope
The types of isekai need to be categorized even if it makes you mad
>Native isekai: A transportation doesn't take place.
You do realize that the term for that is fantasy right?
No the term for is Native Isekai retard.
This have been explained to you several times and you still insist, "fantasy" is a broad term, "native isekai" is a different world where all the "full isekai" tropes are present but a transportation doesn't take place.
bump
Hey look, the full moon's out!
AWOOOOOOOOOOO
Yes
literally no one has ever called record of lodoss war 'native isekai'
there wasn't enough isekai at the time
In the same vein of “civilizing the backwards savages”, I think that a Cecil Rhodes isekai would be fun to see.
times change
Force field.
It doesn't work like that. If a society condones racism and discrimination, it is already their mindset. Beating a few comically evil retards can't change that. It takes a few hundreds years and some bloody wars in our world and those things still doesn't really go away. A lazy isekai MC beating up random people he deems evil here and there certainly can't do it.
No retard. Time can't make white black.
I love this misfit party.
>comparing electromagnetic radiation with isekai terminology
Pretty fucked how the fairies have to be jews otherwise they shrink into non-existence. Series is way better then it should be though.
don't think too much in black and white, user, it's not good for you
> Handyman Saitou
My nigga
>What's a mage going to do against isekai mustard gas?
Cast a wind spell.
Source? Search gives me nothing.
Use wind magic to blow the mustard gas away. Maybe use a barrier spell to trap the dude in with his own mustard gas. As fat ass Molotov cocktails go some kind of water spell would take care of it.
Handyman Saitou In Another World
It's pretty great
Thank user.
>specifically said toned down magic
>hurrr air-sealing force field
>toned down magic
Barrier is pretty low tier spell user. High tier mages are literal demigods who can destroy nations with a wave of their hand.
>average guy going to another world and being relevant
Which is entirely logical btw. IQ scales are revised upwards every decade to keep the average at 100. That means today 100 iq person is a genius compared to mediaeval 100 iq person. This is before you take into account your knowledge.
Read The Wandering Inn.
why do you like it?
Aside from Mushoku Tensei and Hyakuren, what are some other isekai where the MC had to learn the language instead of being blessed with infinite autotranslation?
>That means today 100 iq person is a genius compared to mediaeval 100 iq person
>actually believing this
Retard.
In a way, it's comfy. Also, it isn't a powerwank in the conventional sense and the MC, while pivotal, is not THE ONE or the only one that is explored in detail.
bump
Not enough honstely. Call me back when it’s 10/10. Only Isekai needs to exist others are not needed. Same with anime really.
>an impassable barrier is a low tier spell
Depends on the setting, but for most a single person barrier is pretty low tier.
Those are usually just flat shields though, not completely air-tight spheres. Whether a dome shield would stop a foreign gas is probably somewhat based on the setting too, they're usually just for physical attacks (fireballs/arrows).
>The battle harem LN trend kicked off with Infinite Stratos in 2010
Really? that late. I thought IS was same old back when it aired. That said reading LNs / Manga (back when I did) has always had a negative impact on my enjoyment of anime. I haven't read anything since 2011, but I've still read half the source material for anime coming out today.
I looked up the anichart for spring 2009 to prove you wrong and had to stop there. I watched 10 anime from that season. These days I'm watching 1.5 and am not particularly impressed.
The LNs were pretty good. I'm disappointed to hear it flopped.
Many are area of effect, even if the area is single target, so it would be more like a bubble. I would also argue that gas is a physical attack.
I think a lot of anons have experienced this. It's just your taste becoming more refined.
IQ measures one specific aspect of intelligence so I wouldn't go as far as to say a higher modern iq would make someone a genius compared to ancient people. People generally underestimate our ancestors, but they couldn't have been that inept if we're all here shitposting.
Accrue wealth. Don't care how. Market yourself as the chosen one and sell posters. Realise BS OP powers can be used to transmute lead into gold.
Buy slaves.
Have them run businesses. Use modern agriculture / manufacturing methods or knowledge of modern tech to ensure business success.
Pay wages. Expand. Unionise. Lobby.
Attempt to turn king into puppet. Fail.
Spark a revolution. Become king.
Meanwhile one of your more combat oriented business ventures resulted in the defeat of the big bad.
Set up democratic process in preparation of your death.
Get assassinated by some of your greedier former slaves before this can occur.
Usurper genocides previous ruling class.
Jilted ex-aristocrat summons big bad.
Usurper summons hero.
You may be more intelligent in a general sense and you may have a few bits of knowledge that'd be very helpful (e.g. germ theory) but they have practical knowledge you'd die without.
Your great great great great great etc ancestors would laugh at your inability to plough the fields or skin a deer.
fucking yawn
If this thread is any indication, Yea Forums is guilty of being isekai shit-eaters with this many people defending this trash.
You know I can just give myself (You)'s
Here's one now.
THE GOAL OF ALL THREADS IS ARCHIVE!
CRY OF THE BUMPLIMIT!
here's another faggot
>Modern Monetary Theory
>T GOAL ID
kek