I dont get this stupid character...

i dont get this stupid character. If he's trying to enter a life or death contest where only one person will remain to woo a girl he likes, how will he explain inevitably killing her husband?

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Hey I didn’t kill him.

You don't have to kill masters (although he does want to). He's going to die due to the worms anyways.

He thought he could justify it by saving her daughter. Sakura was arguably the real reason he joined; he cared for her and Rin more than their dad did.
Also he hated Tokiomi which is why he had Berserker go for Gil.

Because what he really wanted was to kill and replace father of the year all along, and by the time he was being honest about it he had a few too many bats in the belfry
Also what happened to Rin's mom between Zero and FSN anyway? Did she kill herself or did they just abandon her in a ditch or what?

Because he didn't join to bang Aoi, he genuinely wanted to save Sakura and was fully aware when he joined that even if he won he would not have long to live. As it turns out, getting eaten by worms from the inside, sleeping in gutters, getting burned alive, and getting mindbroken in the worst possible way fucks up your psyche and he eventually lost focus from his original goal.

He might have no believed it would happen, but he absolutely did want it. There's also no way he didn't consider that Tokiomi would likely be dead if he's able to save Sakura

So basically he was the ultimate cuck by sacrificing himself for another man's child

Yeah he wanted to, but that's not why he entered the War.

What happened to Sakura is indirectly his fault as he was the first natural born Matou magus in generations but abandoned magecraft completely.

He thought Aoi was just a perfect obedient wife. He didn't know she deeply loved Tokiomi even though he tossed their daughter into a worm pit.

I would probably walk away if my grandpa wanted to throw me into a pile of dickworms too. Deep down Zouken probably even respected that call since he presumably allowed him to live his own life and only tortured him to death after he came back.

I always wondered if he had just explained what was happening to Sakura to Tokiomi how would he react. Like when he gave Sakura to Zouken he probably expected some weird magic shit she might have to do, but not tossed in dickworms level of shit, plus he's not even really teaching her anything.

He'd probably be okay with the dickworms, but not with the not really teaching her anything part

Urobutcher is a hack.

Kariya would have actually be a decent magus if he actually trained.
It's like having good bodybuilding genetics but never lifting.

I don't think Zouken would actually pass along anything resembling a crest, and he's also sort of insane. He really should have just made more of an appeal to Aoi or Tokiomi to get through how shitty giving them their daughter was, but he was always set up to be a cheap tragedy because

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What does that last part have to do with her mom?

Sakura became temporarily delusional after nearly being killed by Gilgamesh and imagined that she was back with the Tohsakas again, much like Aoi's delusions at the end of Zero.

>a cheap tragedy
Fucking this. What a great way to phrase it btw 10/10

Not really convincing desu senpai

It is a huge stretch to take that as an implication of Rin killing Aoi.

Holy shit, that explains so much. Rin is an absolute cunt.

Fucking Tokyo ghoul fags

She had severe brain damage from getting choked out so it's safe to assume she died due to medical complications. Also why did so many women get choked in Zero, was Butcher indulging in a new fetish at the time? Like in the grail dream sequence Kiritsugu had a gun but he choked out Angra Iri instead of shooting her in the head.

Choking is about as personal as it gets with killing someone, so it's clearly for creating more emotional impact on those particular scenes. Or maybe it just makes his dick tickle. It's a pretty common fetish

AFAIR Aoi died few years after the 4th Grail war, while never regaining her sanity after being choked.

Kariya was a moron who convinced himself he was a shonen protagonist out to save a girl from her evil husband. He never even considered the possibility that she loved her husband, which is why he broke down and tried to kill her when he realized she loved her husband and not him.

Kariya just wanted to save Sakura. He only focuses on Aoi when he goes crazy.

The reason he was interested in Sakura in the first place was that she was Aoi's daughter.

Because the novel version makes pretty clear he is a delusional person who is using the whole situation as an excuse to take "revenge" on Tokiomi for cucking him. Yeah Urobuchi had a field day writing him.

Uro did the same with Meduka's Sayaka, she had genuinely noble intentions but deep down she wanted something else.
I still think Kariya did nothing wrong in concept, it's with the execution that he completely fucked up

The irony is that it was said in Zero Material that it was both Aoi and Tokiomi who also had a distortion inside themselves that made it so they would never have a happy family. Aoi clearly deluded herself into thinking her husband's decision was right, both when she snapped at Kariya for questioning the decision for the adoption at the beginning and not bothering to confront her husband at the revelation that Sakura might not be okay. Tokiomi never questions Kariya's rant and strokes his own cock to say that he did everything for his little girl. It was also lost that Kariya did leave Fuyuki because Zouken was trying to trick him into luring Aoi into the worm basement and make strong babies to experiment on, which ironically again, Tokiomi just gives to the creep free of charge a superchild who had a wonderful future ahead of her. Kariya definitely is jealous tool, but he was only part of the mad circus that hosed Sakura over here. Aoi and Tokiomi are definitely part of it.

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Yeah, I agree that both Aoi and Tokiomi both made mistakes. But the way Kariya had assumed that Tokiomi was a cartoonish villain who reveled in his daughter's misfortune while tyrannizing his wife was idiotic and ensured a bad ending for all involved.

He kinda was, since Nasu said that Tokiomi would consider Rin and Sakura's battle at the end of HF to he the greatest thing to ever happen to the Tohsaka. So as I said, he has serious distortions, and Apo, who readily accepts his decisions without a utterance of anything close to argument, is the same.

Didn't he convince himself that Sakura's father HAD to have known what was going on with her, and due to that very reason never tried to bring it up to him, or the mother even though that would have instantly gave him way more points than any of the shit he actually tried to pull through the story?

It's not like he cares about his own family's lineage, so spilling out house secrets shouldn't have been a big deal, but I guess he just wanted to believe the father was aware and was keeping everything from his wife.

It likely wouldn't have, considering how Rin treated Sakura when she learned the truth, it would be Tokiomi that would jump straight to euthanizing her if they couldn't immediately solve the issue, to outright killing his own daughter if Zouken used her as a shield. You're right that Kariya drowned in the perverseness of revenge over saving Sakura, but neither Tokiomi or Aoi ever honestly questioned him about why he was so mad about the adoption like adults. They thought he was some buttmad guy even though he was a good uncle to their daughters.

>neither Tokiomi or Aoi ever honestly questioned him about why he was so mad
That's probably because Nasuverse's magecraft isn't very pleasant thing to use in the first place. Casting a spell and even activating magic circuits cause severe pain to magus and such stuff. kariya, on the other hand never thought about how different Matou magecraft from magecraft of other families are, so he probably assume Tohsaka's family magecraft are as disgusting as Matou magecraft.

I liked him.

I don't think Tokiomi would care. And Aoi is a wet blanket.

You do realize main outcome of Fate/Zero was set by Nasu before Urobuchi even started to write it, right?

He's dumb.

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This, basically. What he should've done was to sit it out and try to hook up with Aoi on the rebound.

It's an important lesson to learn: A lot of things are generally better if you don't get involved in shit. He could've sat back and ate French fries for the entire War, and the result would have been the same (with less injury on his part).

Tokiomi was probably okay with that. He'd be like "Well, that's the way that old dude teaches magic. You can expect to suffer like hell to master the Art."

He's Littlefinger, but dumb.