Literally every villain in Narudo has a tragic backstory and didn’t do nuffin wrong

>all villains with decent motivations and reasonable points are dead
>the guy who is evil for the sake of it gets away with everything
Based, Kishi, simply based
Also had people like Hidan and Deidara - religionfag and artfag

You can't say that for sure. Pretty certain he did

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You’re circlejerking.

>there are several villains whose backstories were bullshit.

Like whom?

Ever hear of Hidan?

Not him, but the one who truly stands out to me is Obito

>to thousands of "muh crazy face evil is so fun" type of guys

So the antagonists in Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood/Manga then.

There’s nothing wrong with killing for your religion to spread the word of god.

They both wanted it, but they never did. That's the tragedy.

This thread is simplifying things with Orochimaru, also people seem to be forgetting about his presence in Boruto.

It’s not “bullshit”, sure some parts could have been executed a bit better, but it’s not as bad as the haters make it out to be.

Orochimaru is literally less sympathetic version of Voldemort.

It is still really, really weak for his change of his entire personality and all the crimes he did
>inb4 b-but Madara's influence
Except we almost haven't seen how exactly he was shaping him into this outside of a few pages. Obito didn't face even 40% of shit Kakashi went through, yet somehow became from a nice kid a psychotic murderer. Plus Obito even said he never considered Madara was on his side

I'm not defending Naruto but what's wrong with this? That's pretty realistic, no one just wakes up and become literally Satan.

Aside from the antagonist who was there from near the beginning right to the end and practically gets away scott free to boot, yeah
also some of the Akatsuki were just straight up thugs if I remember right

Shonenfags don't want realistic, they want black and white.

Also, this is a bait thread.

Most serial killers and other reprehensible criminals don't have very good reasons to do what they do. You think that most serial rapists have a tragic backstory? Like hell they do.

You think they guys that slaughtered Amerindians had tragic backstories?
You think Hitler had a tragic backstory? Stalin? Mao Zedong? King Leopold of Belgium? Mengele? Dirlewanger?

This modern obsession with every villain having a tragic backstory is annoying and doesn't follow reality.

That's what makes a villain good dumbass.
Do you prefer the "gosh I'm so bored I'm just gonna kill someone" kind of villain?

How does that make sense?

Aside from the snake motifs there is no similarities between the two.

>Most serial killers and other reprehensible criminals don't have very good reasons to do what they do. You think that most serial rapists have a tragic backstory? Like hell they do.

Examples? Also in those cases that is mental illness/instability, there is something PHYSICALLY wrong with their brain, they have brain damage, what also factors in is their upbringings and being constantly enabled.

>You think they guys that slaughtered Amerindians had tragic backstories?

I dunno, are you the expert on them and studied their history thoroughly?

>You think Hitler had a tragic backstory? Stalin? Mao Zedong? King Leopold of Belgium? Mengele? Dirlewanger?

Yes, all the people you listed did have this.
Why don’t you do actual research on this?

>This modern obsession with every villain having a tragic backstory is annoying and doesn't follow reality.

Oh yeah because YOU know what “reality” is, or have you been looking at way too much American media?

>So the antagonists in Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood/Manga then.
Not really. Kimblee, Envy, Greed and Wrath were all well rounded villains. I think what the user meant was something like typical LN villains.

Normies, mostly

>half snake
>use snakes to attack
>pale looking with snake eyes
>super genius
>secret forbidden research to achieve immortality
>obsessed with death
>manipulated several people to love him even though he didn't cared about anyone but himself
>used spies
>made his own group of followers
>tried to take over his original place with this group
>put part of himself in the protagonist
>orphan
>their arch enemy is their old teacher and leader figure they managed to kill

>Hell, staging a coup is more reprehensible than working for gangsters.
On what grounds? Depending on how shitty the poltics are in said region, staging a coup is necessary in order to improve said region's financial and social situation.
Sure Zabuza's was just a dumbass that wanted Genghis Kahn-styled world domination, but don't act like the Mist weren't by far the most corrupt village in the entire series.

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Also used possession to avoid death.

>Kimblee, Envy, Greed and Wrath were all well rounded villains.

Greed was never an antagonist, Kimblee, Envy and Wrath are all just moustache twirlers with petty motives like:

>WAHHHH I’M JUST JEALOUS SO I’M GOING TO MURDER A CHILD START A WAR BECAUSE MY “DADDY” SAID SO
>I’M A FEDORA TIPPING A-HOLE WHO CAUSED A HOLOCAUST AND AM ANIME HITLER BUT WITHOUT THE REALISM AND COMPLEXITY
>LOL I CAN TAKE OVER YOU’RE PHILOSOPHERS STONE BECAUSE I’M EVIL AND LOVE LISTENING TO BITTER VOICES AND OTHER CARTOON VILLAIN BS

The Homunculus are just generic take over the world Shonen a-holes who never shut up with their hating humans bs and obnoxious mugging.

You are just confusing explanations for excuses.

If you haven't seen recent North Africa countries lately, you'll know a coup d'etat literally does nothing for the people except make a country worse.

>put part of himself in the protagonist
>>orphan

Sasuke is not the protagonist though.

Also Voldemort was only half-orphan, until he killed his muggle father, and I’m pretty that Orochimaru didn’t do the same thing.

Also it seems like he cares for Mitsuki, If in a twisted way.

Also Voldemort’s snake eyes were red not pale (in the books anyway).

Fuck off back to where ever you came from, retard.

Also both tried to murder the main character while young because they believed they would be a big threat in the future.

>41 posts
>19 IPs
wew lad

No they didn’t.

Wow, nice comeback.

FMA is overrated.

>>You think Hitler had a tragic backstory? Stalin? Mao Zedong? King Leopold of Belgium? Mengele? Dirlewanger?
>Yes, all the people you listed did have this.
Why don’t you do actual research on this?
not him but im curious to know what tragic backstory these genociders had to decide to hate against an entire race or other people. and they the object of their hate has to be in it

And he was unironically the best antagonist in the series for it. He just wanted to know everything and to live forever to accomplish that goal. Snake-themed ninja magic is GOAT as well.

Ted Bundy - Grew up in a household where he was told his mother was his sister. Grandfather was insane and violent - although Ted liked the man very much. Laid knives around his sleeping mother (thought to be his sister) at the age of 3. Mother fled with Bundy and married a new man. The guy tried to be nice to Bundy but the kid refused. Was a peeping tom as a kid. Popular at school. Worked with many Republican political campaigns. Nothing here to justify his murders in the slightest. (the amount of info about this guy available is disgusting honestly.
Most serial killers and serial rapists are just insane from birth there's not tragic backstory to them.

Except many people do things for morally reprehensible reasons beyond having a tragic past. Wanting money, power, bitches, etc. is enough to motivate many to do evil deeds. At this point having someone be evil for the sake of their own wants or ego is a breath of fresh air. Literally everyone having a tragic backstory gets homogeneous after a while because there's only so many ways to justify being evil. It's rare nowadays to see a villain who is evil and doesn't need to justify it to themselves. They know what they do is wrong, but they want what they want and nothing will get in the way of that.

Hitler - Grew up the son of a successful Customs worker. Got into arguments with his son constantly. Failed at everything in life, but was a decent soldier. Nothing justifying the genocide of minorities nor the instigation of the largest European land war.
Stalin - the closest to a tragic backstory. Grew up dirt poor and was beaten by his birth father. Moved in with a family friend with his mother and did well in school. Lived as an outlaw revolutionary until the Russian Civil War. Nothing to justify any of his actions however.
Mao - son of a rich and very strict father. Forcefully married to a woman only to refuse to be with her. While in school learned about socialism. Bounced between careers for a while. Became radicalized as while working as a teacher in the interwar period. Spread communist ideals and worked his way up the party ladder. Nothing there to justify the Great Leap Forward.
Leopold - son of a king. Parents died when he was

The American Revolution was a Coup. The Overthrowing of the Tokugawa Shogun was coup. The removal of the Nazis from power was a coup. All of these made the place better for the citizens.

Saving Germany was all the motivation Hitler needed.
Hell, people mocked Stalin for his voice so there's that I guess.

Having a tragic backstory doesn't excuse anything though. It's pretty much just what the villain uses to "justify" their actions.

>They know what they do is wrong, but they want what they want and nothing will get in the way of that.

That is literally Saturday mourning cartoon writing.

Also. You brainlets don't get it. I don't want to defend Naruti but most of the time it's done to make the characters more interesting, not for a pursuit of realism. If you want the other side of nature vs nurture there is Bleach with Aizen being a narcisistic fuck using some guy mutulated before he was born as an excuse to seek power or even better Yhwach who is pretty much forced to be evil due to his nature

>mourning

damn, who died

And there are people like that in real life. It's a realistic motivation. There are many people purely motivated by greed or anger. Many of them may have started out with reasons to do what they do, but then they take it too far once they get a taste of power. Look at the majority of the leaders of the former USSR.

>Why don’t you do actual research on this?

So you didn’t answer my question and just did a NO U.

>not him but im curious to know what tragic backstory these genociders had to decide to hate against an entire race or other people. and they the object of their hate has to be in it

Guess you missed the part of my comment about mental illness and etc.

Biased.

or Deidara? or fucking Kakuzu?

Not him, but mental illness doesn't justify one's actions. And not all of them are mentally ill just because you can't understand that people would choose to do evil just for fun or profit.

That's also what gangsters, mafiosos, yakuza, corrupt politicians, corrupt businessmen, sociopaths, D&D, rapists, and others are like.

People without empathy are not uncommon. DO you think all the bad in the world is done by people that grew up in or experienced horrific tragedies? No most of it is done by people that just don't care about others.

What’s your point?

That was what I was talking about in my previous comment, want to hear it again?

>Also in those cases that is mental illness/instability, there is something PHYSICALLY wrong with their brain, they have brain damage, what also factors in is their upbringings and being constantly enabled.

>Not him, but mental illness doesn't justify one's actions.

Okay you are completely misunderstanding me, I wasn’t justifying their actions.

>And not all of them are mentally ill just because you can't understand that people would choose to do evil just for fun or profit.

You have been watching way too many Saturday mourning cartoons, exploitation horror shows, and American propaganda.

Then why in you're opinion do people do things that are wrong? The vast majority of people that are assholes and sociopaths do not have a tragic backstory to them,

What even is your point anyways? Do you have one?

>*your
Dammit

Except there are literally people do shit just because they want something. That's the motivation of the majority of petty crooks. They want a thing and they take it. The default state of man isn't morally upstanding, virtuous law-follower. It isn't necessary for someone to have a tragic backstory or mental illness to do wrong.

And what causes sociopathy? Oh yeah, bullying, bad parents, bad environment, brain damage, fedora tipping and “moral relativity”, propaganda, corporate greed, war.

One Piece shows this with Hody Jones during the fishman island arc.

>The default state of man isn't morally upstanding, virtuous law-follower.

Oh great you’re one of those “moral relativists” aren’t you?

No, I'm just saying that people aren't inherently good and have no reason to follow the law if they feel like they can get away with something. It's easy to try and take what you want if you've got the balls to do it and the confidence to think you won't get caught.

>The vast majority of people that are assholes and sociopaths do not have a tragic backstory to them,

That depends on what you mean by tragic, the term tragic would apply to bad parenting, brain washing, brain damage, bad environment, etc.

That’s what happens when someone isn’t raised very well and is constantly enabled in childhood.

That's just throwing the blame on others. That's no tragedy either. It's someone getting too big for their britches and acting like a dickhead even though they should be able to see that the majority of society does not behave as such.

None of that is tragic tho...
That's all shit that people experience every day. I experienced most of that, chances are you experienced most of that, chances are the next person that reads this experienced most of that.
Tragic backstories are for the kids that were straight up tormented by their parents, or for child soldiers, or for those that grew up in dirt poverty for almost all of their lives, I could keep going on.

Hell, sociopathy isn't necessary to do horrible shit. I grew up with people that were emphatic that still committed crimes like assault, robbery, distribution of heroin and that level of drugs.

Apathy is not necessarily a lack of empathy, most horrific crimes I'd bet were committed due to apathy rather than lack of empathy.

the whole point was that literally everybody has a tragic backstory because of the constant wars between ninja
thats why Naruto's strongest powers were his empathy and ability to forgive. He realized that the only way to end the cycles of pain and revenge was to never seek revenge

That’s called ambiguity.

Plenty of people did plenty wrong. Everyone has a tragic backstory to emphasize the shittiness of the ninja world, not to excuse their actions.

Brainlet, lack of empathy = apathy.

Ehh

Even Orochimaru had no parents / family until the 3rd hokage took him in
not as tragic as some of the villians like Itachi/Sasuke but still he wasn't just evil for evil's sake

Because people think its deep story telling because they are so devoid of emotion themselves. And then convince themselves that they have empathy for reading Naruto while ignoring a starving hobo on the street. Typical degenerate behavior.

Okay buddy are you the expert on psychology?

If you want to complain about something like this, complain about the homunculus from Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood/Manga. Arakawa tried to paint Wrath as a “tragic character” despite being a typical fedora tipping a-hole, who tried to genocide the Ishbalan’s with no hesitation or remorse, also killed Greed’s chimera friends with no hesitation or remorse was a huge condescending a-hole, and Arakawa tries to brush that off with his “he really did love his wife” bs even though he didn’t save her from getting sucked into Father and was only saved thanks to Hoenhiem’s counter circle, and Arakawa even writes that “radio station makes out Wrath to be a national hero bs”.

Then there’s Father’s “I JUST WANTED TO BE FREE” bs.

FMA is pretty pretentious.

Ow the edge. Nice strawman.

Hitler had a tragic backstory, his parents went bankrupt and died when he was underage and when alive his father was abusive towards him.

You misunderstand my point.

I’m complaining about unrealistic evil for the sake of being evil cartoon villains.

To quote that Robot Chicken He-man skit:

Skeletor: “You’re talking about cartoon evil, not real world evil which is essentially a heightened narcissism.”

m.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIMOf4hfjU

It’s not about justification, it’s about understanding what caused this behaviour.

Speedreader. Orochimaru had a family and shit, but then he lost them during the war and was like fuck this gay dying shit.

Land of waves arc is godly, you cant prove me wrong.

>You think Hitler had a tragic backstory?
I had to do a PowerPoint presentation of him in school so I'm pretty sure he did. No idea about the others though.

While they might seem similar in definition, the actual happenings of both are different.
Apathy is just not caring, its neither against nor for something.
A lack of Empathy is against something because it is the casting off of emotions for something.
I'm not a programmer but the difference is best summed up as null (apathy) vs zero (lack of empathy). Apathy is the nonexistence of any emotions in relation to something, whereas a lack of empathy is the lack empathy in specific - one can still feel contempt (think how you feel about mass murderers, a lack of empathy for them, but contempt still could exist)

But he was the coolest guy.

It's almost as if they were developing a theme (shinobi system is shit) since chapter 1.

“Ask an atheist why he believes that killing people is bad. He'll reply with a scripted answer such as "people evolved to be social animals", but then remind him that sub-rational instinct is not the same as rational morality. And all rationalizations of morality are incapable of grounding themselves, thus, there is no way to truly know if negative utilitarianism is the way to go and killing people is actually a good thing or if following our instincts is a good thing—both would require a dogmatic standpoint.”