Is there a grand list of Kaworu clones? Why is this homo character so popular to copy?
>N: Pokemon Black and White
>Nagito: Danganronpa
>Alcor: Devil Survivor 2
>Akise: Yume Nikki
>Joshua: The World Ends with You
Also some people argue that Homura is a Kaworu clone
Homura is not a Kaworu clone but all of those guys are bar maybe Hopeman.
Ryoji from Persona 3 is another Kaworu clone.
Why isn't Hopeman a Kaworu clone?
I think Ryoji is kind of a Kaworu clone. Maybe moreso in spinoffs, but he wasn't close with the MC at all in the games.
Here's a chart but I'm not sure I'm the biggest fan
Hopeman doesn't really act a whole lot like Kaworu. Even if you want to argue he is one it's definitely not on the same level as N and Joshua.
It started with Ryo Asuka, Kaworu Homura and Griffith all arguably take inspiration from him.
Kaworu would go on to inspire his own character archetype, you see a lot of his clones in rpg vidya and shonen anime
>Kaworu would go on to inspire his own character archetype, you see a lot of his clones in rpg vidya and shonen anime
Which are?
I think people associate him with Kaworu because of his twisted desire to sacrifice himself for the protagonist
I see a lot of them in the pictures anons posted
Alcor, Joshua, Ryoji for vidya
Nova, Saburo, Akise for anime
come to mind especially because they make direct references to Kaworu
He's gimmick is he's insane and obssessed about hope
Excuse me, Go Nagai created this trope, not Anno
Kaworu has bad fashion sense?
Nah, the Ryo archetype is a lot different from the Kaworu archetype
Supposedly Kaworu was inspired by Ryo though I am not sure where this comes from.
I think Kaworu was initially inspired by Ryo and Selm from Nausicaa, but he ended up creating his own character archetype that differed from those two characters
>Nova, Saburo, Akise for anime
Which series do Nova and Saburo come from? And how do they make references to Kaworu?
I think Kaworu and Ryo have a ton of similarities but Kaworu is a lot less antagonistic and way more caring. Kaworu is basically the incarnation of love in Eva.
Nova from Luluco and Saburo from Keroro
They both repeat lines and scenes from Kaworu's episode, and the latter is voiced by Kaworu's va
ryo is akira's best friend that will do anything for him until he finds out his own identity
Oh, is that so? I've seen Devilman Crybaby and never have read the originals. My bad. I still think Kaworu represents unconditional love better.
Thanks user. I think I might watch Luluco based on that.
Would you guys say that Killua is tangentially related?
Wasn't Crybaby a relatively straightforward adaptation of the manga?
I've never watched the manga, so I can't say, but some people say there's a lot of changes between the two. It's also been a while since I watched Crybay.
But at least in Crybaby, Ryo seems pretty sociopathic. Maybe he would do anything for Akira but he's not a nice guy.
Not at all. Maybe early HxH Killua is similar to early Manga Ryo in that they're both edgy.
It follows the manga's plot, but Ryo and Miki's characters are radically different in personality
>Ryo and Miki's characters are radically different in personality
Care to spoonfeed me? I don't intend to watch it.
I'm trying to make a list of what makes a character a Kaworu clone:
>Pale hair an skin
>Mysterious aura
>Love the main character
>Seem like a homo
>Strong ideals that can seem bizarre
>Forced to work for the bad guy
>Supernatural abilities
>From an alien race or something similar
>Intellectual or philosophical interests
>Greater knowledge of the plot
>Reincarnate/time loops
>Die
Alcor gets 8/12. N has 9/12.
Crybaby is great user, you should give it a shot.
But to be brief, basically Ryo is a lot more quiet and serious in crybaby as apposed to his maniacal, batshit insane manga counterpart.
Miki on the other hand was bitchy and sassy in the manga, but in the adaptation she's turned into a generic happy girl.
Manga Ryo was one of the greatest portrayal of paranoia in the medium. To bad that he is now only remembered as a meme homosexual.
IT'S NOT ALCOR IT'S AL SAIDUQ GET IT RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT
What does the wave mean?
What is that green-haired thing?
So-so?
nah, Alcor gets 10/12
Which one does Alcor not get? I said:
>Love the main character
>Seem like a homo
>Reincarnate/time loops
>Die
I went AO route first time so I forgot he can die.
/vp/ would shred you for suggesting N’s a Kaworu clone.
the only thing he has in common with everyone else is his love for the MC,so not really
Ryoji gets 5/12. And another half point for pale skin, but not pale hair.
>/vp/ would shred you for suggesting N’s a Kaworu clone.
Why? He's basically Kaworu except he's not literally an alien and he gets a happy ending.
Where did e.g. Joshua's douchery originate from?
Kaworu is a pretty nice guy.
No, it’s really not.
>Ryo is a lot more quiet and serious in crybaby as apposed to his maniacal, batshit insane manga counterpart
That’s the complete opposite of how I would compare them
He does not love protagonist or have strong ideals that seem bizarre
When does he reincarnate?
I think ambiguous morality is a better way to describe that term. Alcor definite is ambiguous, and he wants to reboot the world, which seems bizarre to most characters. Hence why you fight them on your route.
Isn't it also imply he may have a hope boner for Hinata in his events?
N from Pokemon
Didn't the Triangulum Arc dealt with both reincarnation and time loops?
or am I mistaken?
Haven't played Record Breaker yet but I think all of the characters go through time loops so it doesn't count for Alcor
>Yume Nikki
Wouldn't call Masada-sensei a Kaworu clone.
Got it confused with Mirai Nikki
>5.5/12
Less than I thought.
>7/12
Not bad
And another for being voiced by Akira Ishida
/vp/ hates N if you look at his threads.
>Pale hair and skin
>Mysterious aura
>Love the main character
>Seem like a homo
>Supernatural abilities
>From an alien race or something similar
>Intellectual or philosophical interests
>Strong ideals that can seem bizarre
So far it ranges from 8 to 10 since the two points below deal with memory resets altering things he already knew into something else.
>Forced to work for the bad guy
He could have been made to think it was his own idea to work for Maverick easily.
>Greater knowledge of the plot
Looking into Ouroboros and its dealings, etc but having those memories re-written.
>Reincarnate/time loops
>Die
#11 & 12 don't apply since he is still alive for now.
His aloof tsundere personality doesn't allow for any direct 'Kaworu style' bonding initially; Barnaby evolves as a character and slowly accepts Kotetsu into his life instead.
I hate that literally everything here applies to zaShunina.
He's a delicate, sweet but offputting, white-haired, quasi-gay pretty boy who has feelings for the protagonist and is the penultimate antagonist.
Hopeman is Kaworu as fuck.
>Fakir is a kaworu clone
??????
Vague Christ allusions, too.
For homo stuff isn't Char's archetype better than Karl's?
Cute
Re-posting since image grabber hadn't grabbed that image in full size for some reason.
>Pale hair and skin
>Mysterious aura
>Love the main character
>Seem like a homo
>Supernatural abilities
>From an alien race or something similar
>Intellectual or philosophical interests
>Strong ideals that can seem bizarre
So far it ranges from 8 to 10 since the two points below deal with memory resets altering things he already knew into something else.
>Forced to work for the bad guy
He could have been made to think it was his own idea to work for Maverick easily.
>Greater knowledge of the plot
Looking into Ouroboros and its dealings, etc but having those memories re-written.
>Reincarnate/time loops
>Die
#11 & 12 don't apply since he is still alive for now.
His aloof tsundere personality doesn't allow for any direct 'Kaworu style' bonding initially; Barnaby evolves as a character and slowly accepts Kotetsu into his life instead.
Funny, since Barnaby is from Sunrise they added him saying how much he admires his suit looking like a blazing red comet.
So... Is Kaworu a Jesus clone ?
!!!
Are you saying that Barnaby is Kaworu clone? I love Bunny but I think you're really stretching the point here.
Barnaby is a little mysterious, but he's not ethereal. He does have supernatural abilities but it's not past the extent any of the other main characters have. He's not an alien either. And he has strong ideals like a lot of anime characters but they're not bizarre at all.
No; I'm saying he meets the general criteria in the list but his way of bonding with Kotetseu isn't the same as Kaworu and Shinji at all, the list itself makes sense but it also allows in characters that don't fit the clone part.
> He does have supernatural abilities but it's not past the extent any of the other main characters have. He's not an alien either.
NEXTs are considered rare and treated as something beyond human by the general population there.
Since it was:
>From an alien race or something similar'
He and NEXTs all fit into the 'something similar to aliens and not quite human' part.
>he has strong ideals like a lot of anime characters but they're not bizarre at all.
As for his ideals, he pushed himself to extremes and didn't allow himself to make any 'mistakes' nor did he like taking any emotionally motivated 'unnecessary action' for the longest time relying on pure logic; he is using his heart as well as his head with how he deals with things now. His way of thinking and ideals were bizarre in an unhealthy, emotionally self-repressed way.
Not arguing with you by the way just saying that the list is good and casts a wide net but it doesn't narrow down the "Kaworu clone" part all the way so characters like Bunny can also pass the check list.
I see. I need to clarify what I mean with each of the terms so that I have a more precise list. I would say that the core of being a Kaworu clone is being ethereal and alien/non-human. Barnaby is a cool guy, but everyone sees him as a cool human guy in the end.
Barnaby has supernatural abilities as a NEXT but it's not something rare compared to other characters of the show, who are all NEXTs. As for his ideals, I don't doubt he has strong ideals, but Kaworu clones tend to have ideals that are alien by our standards. Bunny is like Batman, it's not really normal but it's not really inhuman. I mean something more like Blue and Orange morality if you go on tvtropes.
Here's what I mean by bizarre ideals:
>Kaworu: Wants to die to save Shinji and liberate the human race (Or does he? No one knows)
>Nagito: Hope
>N: Wants to free Pokemon genuinely
>Alcor: Wants to reboot the world and test humans
>Pale hair and skin
Self-explanatory
>Mysterious aura
I mean being ethereal or strange to the point of being off-putting. It's something hard to qualify.
>Loves the main character
>Seems like a homo
I think these might be redundant.
>Strong ideals that can seem bizarre
Kaworu clones are often idealistic but people don't always understand those ideals. Often caused by innocence or a lack of understanding of human emotions.
>Forced to work for the bad guy
They oppose the protagonist against their will
>Supernatural abilities
These characters have supernatural abilities outside of the normal abilities of other characters
>From an alien race or something similar
Usually not the same species as the main characters
>Intellectual or philosophical interests
Will casually have deep conversations on screen in a way the rest of the characters won't and talk about stuff like destiny, love, etc
>Greater knowledge of the plot
They know more than they let on
>Reincarnation/time loops
This doesn't apply to the original Kaworu but it's something associated with him ever since SRW
>Dies
Kaworu clones tend to be tragic, but I love the ones that get a happy ending that the original Kaworu doesn't
Exactly, the terms were a bit too opened ended. I do get your point, language allows wide loop holes which was why an user posted Kakashi in a thread with a smaller list since he did die for a while, have white hair, etc. It will be fine with a bit of tweaking.
>everyone sees him as a cool human guy in the end
With any luck it stays that way, since Barnaby is at his peak in popularity; bad things happen to people at the top. There is an entire category of 'just homo suffering' that he could fall into neatly and I'm fine with him not being on the bad end list.
>These characters have supernatural abilities outside of the normal abilities of other characters
This one helps narrow it down a lot more but does that factor Rei in?
Its been a long time since I saw NGE, I think she would count as a special being so this point wouldn't apply.
I hate those types of character
Rei has powers but we don't see them for most of the show, so I think the point still applies
But they still exist, even Kaworu says that they are very similar, she is also really strong as well, in a way it removes the point of Kaworu being one of a kind in those situations; I understand the point you are making, I think it can still apply if worded a bit differently.
Not really because there's also an abundance of Rei clones in Anime who often have powers as well
So if anything it just differentiates Rei and Kaworu from other Anime characters.
Yeah but it means he and Rei are similar; it might still raise objections when people submit an entry since that similarity is something Kaworu comments on himself.
There has to be a way to make Kaworu sound differentiated enough from 'false match' entries while removing the 'similarity with Rei' issue from being added in to avoid that type of disruption.
I think it is best to do this type of fine-tuning while the thread is still slow to get more accurate data; hope you don't find it bothersome.
Rei and Kaworu are similar on a literal level that they both share the same god-like origin as angels.
However they are different enough in personality, thematic presence, and their relationship to the MC where you can make an easy distinction. So much so that there are many Anime that have both Kaworu and Rei clones in them that are distinguishable from each other while also being similar.
Yuki Nagato and Itsuki Koizumi from Haruhi are an excellent example of this. You know that they are a Rei clone and Kaworu clone respectively from their differing personalities despite both having similar mysterious powers.
I mean light tweaking since the term is:
>Supernatural abilities
And the definition is:
>These characters have supernatural abilities outside of the normal abilities of OTHER characters
It makes it sound like a a 1 of a kind deal.
How about altering the definition to something highlighting the character's alien race having different powers than the other characters instead; since we also have:
>From an alien race or something similar
>Usually not the same species as the main characters
That way Rei becomes a part of the term as well. Thoughts?
Quoted an extra post by accident
Forgot to add, how many positive hits on the list should count as a confirmed clone?
Getting all of them would be pretty rare so what would you consider the lowest limit.
In most episodes of the tv show, Rei doesn't manifest any special powers.
If you're talking about wording, I would say that a Kaworu clone has superpowers that are unique among a cast that largely lacks powers or that he has powers that are extraordinary that no other cast members have. I'm not really sure how else to describe it. But Kakashi wouldn't count, because even though he's gifted, he uses ninjutsu just like everyone else.
Not really sure. I think the list needs a lot of refinement before it can be a real litmus test.
I would say that the things that define Kaworu clones are a mix of being alien and a particular kind of relationship with a protagonist.
Nagi from Mai Hime
I was talking about the wording; but I guess it is fine this way too since you can answer any issues if anyone does object or asks about it; no harm in using it as a good discussion topic if it happens.
>Kakashi wouldn't count
I know, it wasn't my post back then, and that list wasn't as long or detailed like yours is; it had fewer options and the characters had to have 3 or 4 positive hits to get in the thread.
>Not really sure. I think the list needs a lot of refinement before it can be a real litmus test.
It would be interesting to see how many characters are able to reach proper clone level once it is done.
>I would say that the things that define Kaworu clones are a mix of being alien and a particular kind of relationship with a protagonist.
Very true.
>tfw no Kaworu clone bf
>Akise: Yume Nikki
So Madotsuki has a Kaworu clone somewhere? Hmmmm
>Akise Yume Nikki
You mean mirai nikki?
Just to clarify that Kakashi thing I mentioned & anons were joking around in that thread by finding loop holes to get past the rules to try and get on the list there; it wasn't really serious, it was pretty funny.
>Homura
Wrong. The Kaworu clone in Madoka is Kyubey.
I dont get it, they are not similar
*ahem*
FUCK KOMAEDA