So, in the end, was Last Encore really so bad...

So, in the end, was Last Encore really so bad? I thought it was commendable that they at least tried to imply things using visuals and dialogue rather than infodumping like F/SN or F/Z (in the first episode of which we had the infamous walking in circles scene).

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I kinda enjoyed it to be honest. Last Encore is definitely not as good as other Fate anime but it's also not as bad as what people usually say, at least for me. 6/10 i guess.

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It's much stronger thematically than any other entry in the animate Fate/verse and the fights will usually conclude in moral victory for our protagonists rather than winning through the typical asspulls, powerlevels and beamwars that Fate's famous for. Last Encore had much stronger direction than any other fate production often even than that of the big budget UFOtable stuff.

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The main problem with expecting the audience to infer things is that most of what they want you to infer assumes you already played Extra. Even the voice actors were confused by what was happening, the average casual would have been totally lost.

Made me appreciate Nero more.
She was really well written.

It's a brainlet filter. That's not to say it's not flawed though. At the least it's better than Fate/Apoc, all F/GO movies, all Kaleid, and the UBW standalone movie.

umu

I'm confused. Didn't this anime literally stop half way through more than a year ago? I remember it stopping at episode 13 or something

>was Last Encore really so bad?
Yes

Last Encore has 13 episodes tho? The final three episodes called Illustrias Tendousetsu and were released about 3 months after ep 1-10 ended.

Oh that's it. I'm sure I never saw some ending to the show. Wonder why they stopped for those months. Gotta watch it later I guess

I kind of like it but I feel like it would have been a lot better and better received if it didn't have anything to do with Fate. To me it seems like Nasu really just wanted to do a sci-fi story. If you ignore the dumb Fate lore and technobabble there's a pretty decent and not too confusing story, but the fluff makes it almost impossible to know what's important and what's not on a first viewing.

It was fucking horrible and even worse than the game

Production issues. They were already rushing to get the episodes they did finish on the air, so they put the show on hiatus for a few months to animate the last few episodes without the whole thing being stick figures and speed lines.

It wasn't SO bad, if only because the MC has actually died for once. This already makes Last Encore at least better that shounenshit with mary sue MCs. Also it has nice surreal feel to it.

It was not that bad, people honestly overrate Stay Night a lot and are nostalgic for it or just think of the VN, in truth there is not a massive quality gap between Fate Apocrypha, Last Encore and the UBW or Deen anime

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No, Apocrypha was absolute shit. Easily the worst Fate. Homunculus mary sue and retarded Jeanne were terrible characters. Not even mentioning Astolfo cancer.

Virtually all Fate spinoffs are horseshit

Strange fake is great.

It was decent only if you played Extra

So Nasu is hit or miss while Urobuchi is consistently bad.

Fate/zero is the best anime of all fate anime's tho

It was just okay, but kind of dull. I still prefer it to Apocrypha. I'll take dull over insultingly bad any day.

It's literally the WORST Fate entry ever.
Just proves Nasu can't write for shit post FGO.

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T. Braindead Nerotards

It's even worse if you played Extra actually.
Extra was a 6/10 story with some glaring flaws but you'd still tolerate it as Fate fag.
LE is a 2/10 with horrible writing and characterization.

Why didn't they just make a straight adaptation of Extra? We could have had Extra CCC anime.

Why did japan hate it? Don't they like big tit Saber?

Nasu feels like he should try and improve anything that he revisits.

Ummm no Nero isn't that popular.
Literally forced popularity because Nasu keeps shilling her. Still has butthurt about Uro's Iskandar still being more popular than her.

Because Extra's writing is super meta about the fact that it's a videogame and that 100% doesn't translate to non-videogame adaptatons. Plus it's structured as a series of episodic action encounters given equal weight and importance in the story and that also doesn't really work as a single cours anime. If they're going to have to cut and change so much already, might as well make it into something fresh.

LE was no masterpiece but the only people seething about it and crying "garbage, worst ever!!" were exrra fans that went in expecting a ubw-tier faithful adaptation and are mad that their unrealistic expectations weren't met. Just like you still have ubwfags to this very day crying that Ufotable ruined the route by not playing Emiya on loop for the entire shirou/archer scene.

Extrafag here. I actually enjoy LE. Won't make anyone agree with me and if you want to say I'm a retard with shit taste, you're free to do so. Just saying playing Extra won't make you always hate LE and weird people like me exist

No one likes Nero

>LE was no masterpiece but the only people seething about it and crying "garbage, worst ever!!" were exrra fans that went in expecting a ubw-tier faithful adaptation and are mad that their unrealistic expectations weren't met
I wanted new shit over a meh adaptation.
LE is was so shit that a meh adaptation would've been preferable.

I second that.

Japan is based sometimes

I like her. She's hot and fun.

>Having Nero made it better than all the other shit with vanilla Saber.

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Who's your favorite Extra servant?

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You posted it, Li is my favourite servant in all Fate

I liked it the setting kinda clicked with me more though it wasn't as good as other Zero and original.
Umu was a better girl than original saber though. Umu.

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We're not talking about her design waifu fags.
As a character she's mediocre at best

Different user but I really couldn't give a shit I liked her personality better.

A lot of Fate character own their flaws. Not perfectly, mind you, but for the most part.
Nero has been increasingly portrayed as a genuine dindu nuffin whose failings are all the fault of treacherous and/or overzealous subordinates.

Even if that were the case, mediocre is still better than what Altria is.

You're right. I was totally lost

Does female Hakuno make appearance in LE?

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Pretty much everything Nero did bad her backstory is basically brushed aside with "muh evil mother and headaches lol"

I also love her as a character. Not only her design. It's how I feel and that won't change.

>Altria

The only good parts of the game were the interactions with your servant. The anime decided to focus on the most retarded parts of Extra instead - it's lore and setting. Who the fuck thought it was a good idea?

There's also the fact that she's Beast VI.

She was Nero's original master who fought and lost against Twice. Male Hakuno is like a zombie made with the feelings of hatred of all the masters who lost to Twice, with Hakunon as base

>The only good parts of the game were the interactions with your servant.
Only if you played with Nameless, because Nero and Tamamo are shit

Tamamo and Redman >>>>>> Shitro

Nasu

Redman? Yes
Shittymo? Nope. Tamamo is obnoxious as fuck.

Don't make fun her name, user.

Tamamo is shit like Nero

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I think Tamamo as the servant would've been more interesting with a plot more closer to that of Extra, but as someone who played the game I enjoyed it thoroughly. It gets a bad wrap from brainlets and animeonlys

Wait what ?

the nursery rhyme episodes were the only good ones

It was terrible and it did like shit. Only contrarian faggots and fatetards would think this trash was good.

Yes, she is the original master of Nero. In the 2nd Drama CD, female Hakuno met Tamamo at the 4th Floor (called Cyber Rashomon). Tamamo told her some small stories that happened in MoonCell after the first HGW had ended and at the end, she did some magic stuff that let Hakunon meet Rani, Rin, Nikui Hakuno and Nero again in the bath scene (which happened after floor 2 in the anime)

Beast VI is the Beast of 666, which is the name of the beast that the Whore of Babylon rides, and in Extra Gawain said that Nero is the Whore of Babylon.
That's why Nero hates her Rider form, because it's more close to being a Beast than a Servant

Why is Nero a girl?

Lots of people who haven't played Fate/Extra and it sure as shit shows when they praise this shit show of an anime

I played Extra, love LE and you won't see me claiming everyone who played it must love it.
You can hate it, but don't force other people to do so, or assume anything about the few weird people who like this show

>It's much stronger thematically than any other entry in the animate Fate/verse
No, it;'s much weaker with no clear underlying theme and tires(and fails) to pull a really weak version of Extra's ending
> and the fights will usually conclude in moral victory for our protagonists rather than winning through the typical asspulls, powerlevels and beamwars that Fate's famous for.
No, LE's fights are ALL asspulls and badly animated messes. There's no moral victory because the "bosses" in it are one note cardboard cutouts instead of characters.
>Last Encore had much stronger direction than any other fate production often even than that of the big budget UFOtable stuff.
Not true, it was very messy and purposefully convoluted with no real sense of direction or purpose. Things just happen and aren't clear to the viewer.

I thought Beast VI was Beast 666 from protoverse. I played Extra with Tamamo so I know that Amaterasu is probably Beast V but Nero being one of the Evil of Humanity seem pretty odd to me.

Apocrypha was still better than Flop Encore.

>MBeast 666/Beast VI = Mother Harlot/Whore of Babylon (remember what Gawain said?). The theory hasn't been confirmed yet but it has many evidences if you read her mats, profiles, Septem and more,... From Book of Revelation (for the connection with Rome/Nero, read en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon and you can find more on gg) :
>And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
>[...]
>And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. [King James Version; the New International Version Bible and the New American Bible use "hills" instead of "mountains"].

From Nero Saber profile in FGO
>The Emperor who, in the Rome of 50~60 AD, oppressed the Roman Senate and all religious factions.
>In the Roman Era, her stance towards the Senate and the oppression imposed on Christians caused her to be called a tyrant.
>From such anecdotes, she is put on par with the Number of the Beast, the Whore of Babylon who destroyed cities in the Old Testament, but...?

There are more but im too lazy so you can read/use gg translate for this page typemoon.m.wiki.cre.jp/wiki/ビースト_(Prototype) (especially for メモ section).

Sakura Tange (Nero VA) also voices Mother Harlot (she said that on her blog and it was deleted later). According to FGO datamine (the one that was leaked back in 2015/2016), Mother Harlot's VA is Sakura Tange and her illustrator is Wada Arco.

This image is from Koha-Ace btw.

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Vanilla Extra can definately work as an anime, needs at least 24 episodes but can still work. Something like LE is just plain garbage tossing out EVERYTHING that worked in the original game for either poorly thought out new ideas that don't work or poorly thought out rehashes.

Nah, playing extra beforehand only makes you hate LE more.

>dialogue rather than infodumping
Um, did you even watch it because about 75% of the dialogue is just infodumping about the mooncell.

>Last Encore
It was terrible.

For you. But that wasn't my experience. You don't speak for me. Like I don't speak for you and claim playing Extra makes you enjoy LE. Fuck off

No, you just have really low standards. It's a bad anime regardless of what you have or haven't watched beforehand.

>No Tamamo
>No female master
Nah

>I played Extra, love LE
Direct contradiction there.

At least you have the second drama cd where Tamamo and Hakunon are the main focus i guess. It is fully translated btw.

Why do people who hate LE seem so obssesed with stablishing said hatred as a universal fact? Why can't they hate LE without going apeshit when they find out about people who had a better experience with the show?
Is it such a crime to enjoy stuff others don't enjoy?
Not a contradiction unless you're a child who believes that the fact that you played Extra and hated LE means every other Extra player must hate it as well
I am not claiming playing Extra and hating LE is contradictory. I'm not forcing you to like the show, so don't force me to hate it

>Leo suicides to buy time
>They just stand there and watch him die

Shit was terrible but the OP was nice.

I'll have to look it over
I was never a fan of Nero in Extra, enjoyed Archer/Tamamo more

I liked Nursery Rhyme's episodes
the rest were dogshit

btw here is the link to the translation amielleon.dreamwidth.org/305579.html

Thanks user

Thanks!

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Direction and character design was fine but there was some ugly ass cg and fight choreography wasn't great.

They didn't really add anything to what was already present in the source material despite it being a sequel technically. It's not like Twice or Hakuno came to a different answer.

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It wasn't good, that is for sure.
It's plot was messy and the writing was pretty bad but it looked great and had some superb moments.

From Blossom Sensei mini drama:
>In Extra there was originally a plan for Rin/Rani to become a pseudo-servant and fight for you (???) but it was rejected. Sakura regrets not being able to see Nee-sa-- I mean Tohsaka-san in a Lancer outfit.
>(note: the mini drama was released before FGO so the term "Demi-Servant" hadn't existed yet at that point)
So this is probably the reason why we got Lu Bu!Rani and Cu!Rin in Last Encore i guess.

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I've been meaning to ask, what is the proper name of the accent / speech manner used by Caster?

You mean goshujin-sama or something else ?

I don't really have a good description. I mean, how she exaggeratedly pronounces every word. Not sure if it's supposed to be overly formal or old fashioned speech type

Tamamo, aside from the MIKON outbursts, is mostly pretty formal and respectful to her master from what I've heard others say. I don't know anything really about dialects though

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I can't speak JP so im not sure if Tamamo's speech manner is also a thing in Japan or that is just something Nasu made for her character, tho. The way Tamamo pronounces word is pretty weird sometimes, and she also uses a lot of word puns too (she called Abe no Seimei "ikemon" as a make up word between ikemen=beautiful/handsome man and bakemono=monster).

Btw i really like her speech manner. It clearly portrayed Tamamo's character as a dreamy, cheerful foxgirl but also can be serious and respectful. Chiwa Saito is an amazing VA.

Why did people complain pic related was fighting Servants? He was holding himself back all the time. Ever since the heart transplant, he became Fafnir, the strongest of all dragons after the Beast of Revelations.

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It's mostly a mess, but at least it was somewhat entertaining.

>Chiwa Saito is an amazing VA.
Yep, though as much as I love her as Tamamo I'll always have a soft spot for Maaya Sakamoto's VA. Couldn't believe the same person voicing Shiki is Jeanne, they're so different to hear

Anime only secondary. Sieg is just the name he chose on deference to Siegfried but the novels make clear underneath that thehomunculus has morphed into Fafnir, it's just humanized by the pure/blank stuff of the homunculus so is now a normal person on the making. The command spells and shit keep him from transforming.

The problem with Sieg is that he's a garbage character.

Yes that's right! Sakamoto Maaya is a talent too, not just voice acting and singing but she is also the one that wrote song lyrics for FGO OP 1&2 (given by what Nasu told her) and the lyrics is really beautiful to be honest. KnK only, Shiki, SHIKI and Void already have different voice tones.

Yep. Saver being so OP and Chakravartin are also stuff Nasu wanted to include in the original Extra
LE was basically an excuse for Nasu to do an Extra story with new elements and also various elements that had to be scrapped from the game due to lack of budget

>various elements that had to be scrapped from the game due to lack of budget
Yeah. I also remember that Summer BB's NP in FGO is actually what was supposed to be BB's NP in CCC but then it was scrapped due to budget stuff too. Things like this makes me think that Nasu and Typemoon have only become this rich since FGO.

So what does this drama CD imply? How does Tamamo know about Hakuno here? Why are they even together in the first place?

Because you are LYING about the show when you say that it's good, it's not it is really bad. It fails at pacing, characters, plot, animation, and fights.

>Not a contradiction
Actually it is. That is a heavy contradiction because anyone that played the game beforehand would know hard LE fails and get angry at how they drag Extra's name through the mud.

There was a good reason they were scrapped and he shouldn't have tried to bring them back.

>So what does this drama CD imply?
That Hakunon never loved Nero and abandoned her for Tamamo.

I don't blame her Tamamo is the superior Extra girl

>She was really well written.
She wasn't, Nero was just as bad as she is in Septem here.

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Good riddance

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Should i play the game before watching this or does it matter?

You're better off re-reading KnK

Play the game and DON"T watch LE.

Last Encore’s biggest narrative problem, for me, is how it tried to be both a sequel and an adaptation of Extra, and failed at both. It tried to match the plot structure of the original game, while also being a sequel set 1000 years in the future. It should have committed either to being a straight adaptation of the game, or a proper sequel with no pretenses of being an adaptation.

If I’m supposed to be enjoying a sequel to a game I’ve already played, why do I need to watch the same battles with the same Servants and Masters over again, this time with the Masters just being hollow shells of their original selves? The Masters were great in the original game when they were real people fighting for their individual goals, but now with this being a 1000 year time loop of pointless fighting between copies of dead people, none of the antagonists or their stories have any narrative impact. If I’m supposed to be enjoying an adaptation, why does the story focus on things that weren’t in the original rather than on adapting the game, and why is the story incomprehensible to anyone who hasn’t already played the game, making it a pointless adaptation?

Another big issue is how it failed to address many of the issues that Extra’s story already has.

First, Extra has a protagonist who doesn’t really have a personality of their own and instead serve as an audience surrogate. this is perfectly fine in a game, but it doesn’t work in an anime. Instead of giving Hakuno’s character more of a personality and a motivation of their own, Nasu just decided to make them a mindless incarnation of rage, which isn’t too interesting in terms of characterization.

Honestly neither of those things are good

However, the thing I was disappointed by most (not the biggest problem, but the one that I care about most) was how the series handled my favorite character from Extra, Twice Pieceman.

You see, when Extra was originally planned, it was going to have a much more in-depth story revolving around the nature of war and human progress, with Twice playing a major role. However, due to the budget cuts, nearly all of this was removed from the final game, with Twice appearing out of nowhere at the very end and the themes which he expounds on not being supported by the rest of the story. If Nasu had committed to making an adaptation of Extra that fixed its problems, he would have rewritten the story to focus more on this original theme of war and human progress, giving Twice a major presence throughout it, rather than focusing only on the servant waifus like the original game ended up doing. Unfortunately, what we got was Twice yet again popping out of nowhere at the end and serving very little thematic relevance, as the only other impact he really has in the story is setting up the 1000 year time loop that leads to the whole Dead Face Hakuno nonsense.

Also, most of the fights are garbage. It feels like the series is on a shoestring budget, with stiff, limited animation in most of the battles. The actual fight choreography is very typical of anime, with lots of standing around and talking, and drawn out single attacks that don’t really feel all that impressive. Most of the servants don’t feel badass or powerful like they do in the other Fate anime adaptations, and instead most just feel like regular, real world people in combat. The only time the series ever really felt like Fate in terms of the battles was Gawain vs Nero. That fight was awesome, but it’s a shame the others aren’t.

The game as an alright plot carried by it's cast with very hit and miss gameplay. Try it out and see for yourself and if you can't get into it watch a playthrough.
SKIP Last Encore. It adds nothing, is not very enjoyable, and you would have a much better time finding a different show or watching something like Apocrypha(which is still bad but not as bad as Last Encore).

Hakuno had enough to work with as a character if they compounded on the aspects driven by their internal monologues and to a degree what was elaborated in CCC.
Hakuno is someone driven by their internal struggle of what their identity is, if their identity was worth struggling for, and if it was right to kill others to go further into a grail war they didn't have a wish for. There is an inherent amount of snarkiness present in them though. Hell, one of the most iconic parts of their monologues was the line "Well, Rin went from comatose to Bitch in 5 seconds flat."
Make them a damn Kyon clone!

I felt bad for some of the random NPC's you can talk to in Extra

>what does this drama CD imply?
From what i understand then this Drama CD clarifies:
>Tamamo's role in LE
>what happened after the first HGW (the one when Hakunon is Nero's master) had ended
>the concept of "time" is messed up in this floor aka the reason why Tamamo could observe(?) everything in at different times (Li and Julius story was about 100 years after the end of the first HGW but Roman Bath Day happened after Nikui Hakuno and Nero defeated Robin and Dan on the anime so they're surprised when Rani showed up)
Also given by what they said then this drama cd should happen after Hakunon and Nero defeated Alice and NR in the 3rd Floor
>Tamamo: Go forth, worthy one... one with the shining Soul. I will not stop you. For you see, it is destined that you shall pass. On floor five rain does not yet fall; on floor six the infinite eternal duel to the death has yet to begin; on floor seven the master is not asleep. (footsteps) What awaits you are their true and genuine selves, Masters and Servants before they were broken. All are mighty foes. Even so... you will go.
>Hakunon: Yeah. (footsteps) Thank you for the break, Caster. I've kept Saber waiting, so I should be off. -> she's still Nero's master at this point
Btw i wonder if Tamamo is capable of "seeing the future" or "seeing the future" is a kind of authority for the servant of this floor aka Cyber Rashomon i guess. But the time is already messed up in here anyway.

Yes, yes it was. Instead of focusing on and develping new things they decided to just badly rehash stuff from extra but with those characters acting a literal 180° from their original personalities and having their motivations only hinted at so you needed to play the game for figure out who these characters were.
Although that mean little when they also decided to break all the rules of the mooncell they made in Extra to try and justify this story.

Not every Fate series is for everyone - Apocrypha is a pretty contentious subject in particular (I liked it for what it was), and Prisma Illya, at least the anime (manga was great!) is hit or miss too depending on your tolerance for relentless loli pandering and mostly terrible fights with a few really good ones. However, despite my not necessarily liking all of them, they still ended up feeling like Fate and having at least something likable about them, including Deen's original FSN.

Last Encore... doesn't. Outside of a really nice opening it's just lacking in anything that makes Fate... Fate.

When you have a main character blander and worse than Sieg of all people, you know you fucked up.

More Jeanne when?

Fate/Last Encore was very bad. The story was a mess of different concepts put together without any explanation or connection. Nothing seemed logical and every concept felt like it was created on the spot to solve the current situation and then immediately be discarded. The characters were boring and were killed off rather quick. The fights were lame, the animation was weak and the soundtrack inconsistent.

The issue with Hakuno is that there was never a single person in the entire series with Deadface that actually acted like they were fucking ANGRY.
The opening episode has HAKUNO describe about how much of an edgelord he is but there is never a point where it actually comes into play.
If he went Berserker on people like Shinji and Dan then maybe I could get behind the "culmination of the anger of the masters killed by Twice" but he never showed any emotion ever.

Yeah, it was bad. It honest was a case of Nasu throwing out pretty much everything that worked in the original game and substituting it with a weaker version. Removing the tournament aspect and making the servants bland charactrerless stage bosses makes this feel more like a videogame than the actual video game.

There are three big difference between the game and anime Hakuno.
1.) In the game the whole struggle between his/her moral and survival instinct. They don't want to kill people but in F/E Game. In the anime on the other hand, he just doesn't care, and that sound like a unique protagonist at first, but it get boring fast because there is no emotional struggle.
2.) His amnesia. In the game F/E Game In the Anime, honestly the whole amnesia thing felt like an after thought.
3.) His relationship with Saber. In the game the raltionship progress kinda like social link in Persona (except here the protagonist is half silent). They actually interact and talk to each other. In the anime Saber talk while Hakuno standing there silently like mannequin.

Honestly anyone that says Hakuno in Extra is a boring self insert with no character has nerver actually played the game. You don't have to like it but Hakuno DOES infact have a character and an arc in the game, the player control is more or less how much sass/snark they have.
Anime's Hakuno IS the boring bland self insert with no character to his own.

Honestly I can see what they were going for. In having Nero loud, energetic character with HAKUNO playing the straight man, it should have worked but as you said, it got boring fast and the lack of amusing interactions between them really fucked them over.
Honestly, I was pretty excited in the first episode to see a Fate Protagonist that is straight edgelord and then seeing growth from that but what we got was basically a guy who did nothing the entire time aside from be melancholy.

This. In one reference to Francis Xavier, they already showed more likability than HAKUNO ever did.

Hakuno's sass was great, and I'm glad it at least slightly showed up in Extella/Extella link

He's not though, he's pretty fun character. He was dragged down by the actual garbage character: Jeanne. FGO shows the true colors. Jeanne never stops being a bland garbage character, while Sieg now who is removed from her orbit, is actually pretty fun and cute. They really should have killed Jeanne and make Mordred the heroine. Mordred and Fafnir/Sieg had a lot of common ground and actual chemistry (as friends but could be lovers) when they interacted in the novels: rebellious homunuclus who are the 'bad guys' in their legends (as farnir/the traitor knight) would be good and focus on homunculi stuff.

Imagine the ending being Mordred breaking into Avalon riding her dragon boyfriend.

It was garbage and it got screwed over by the usual shaft schedule.

My opinions are not lies. I make it pretty clear me liking it is me being weird and an extreme minority. But my feelings are clear
If I'm lying, you're lying. My feelings are as true as yours
Anyone who played Extra would love LE as a different take on it's world, with Nero being very lovely through out and a great chance to see different sides of characters
If you disagree with what I just said, I'm allowed to disagree with you claiming LE "fails" and "drags Extra's name through the mud" and I should be angry
You can hate LE all you want, but don't force me

>FGO
Stopped reading right there. Jeanne is shit too so I don't disagree with that part at least.

I'm being arrogant? Not the retards forcing me to hate the show? All I did is present an example of their argument from the other side
If I don't get to force anyone to like it, no one will force me to hate it
And like I said, I won't make you change your mind
All I ask is that you don't make me change mine or quetion my feelings.
I know the show is very flawed. Anyone who says it's shit has tons of reasons
Me liking it, having played the game, is me being a weird guy with shit taste. But I still have every right to have said shit taste.

Nasu's first real mistake was Extra. He's been on an overall decline since then.

What's a "Fate stay night"? Something related to Fate GO?

based

I'm going to say the Z word!

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