Power Creep

How would you fix shounen power creep? Keeping in mind that people like transformations so you have to keep them.

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Either keep the story short enough so that it doesn’t get out of hand or make a system where multiple characters can take down a vastly superior opponent if they worked together well enough.

God ki was the best shot they had at stopping it, or at least resetting it, and they failed

very interesting thread, bumping for interest.

Power ceiling prevents power creep supposably but DB and NNT exist.

What about transformations? Need to keep those. Obviously they would have to do something more interesting than making the MC physically stronger.

A power ceiling would work, it's certainly possible to make a more entertaining or threatening villain in ways besides "he's 10x stronger than the last guy we fought".

Just remove the power creep.
>the universe is full of energy
>some people can use that energy
>the less special people a place have the stronger they are going to get
>they can transform to use the power energy more efficiently and make more attacks with the same quantity of energy
This way you can have the MC using his power to interact with the environment in one chapter and destroying mountains in the next chapter.

Thoughts?

Never use power levels

Moving sideways? Character doesn't get stronger, they get more skillful/clever at using abilities in interesting ways. Of course the writer has to be clever to avoid Jojo-esque asspulls.

There's nothing wrong with the power creep but the presentation. Toriko, for example, has completely retarded, uncontrolled powercreep, but it's all perfectly fine because the stakes and the collateral damage actually coincide with the rise in power. Towards the end of the manga, the entire planet was being destroyed due to how strong the characters are.

The reason people dislike power creep in Dragon Ball, especially Super, is because it doesn't seem to make a difference in the way the fights are portrayed. It's fucking boring.

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This,
SS Goku vs frieza feels the same as Blue Goku vs Golden Frieza, power wise speed wise and the destruction it makes

The big issue with DBZ is that every fight is won by "I can punch you harder than you can punch me."

You can make a successful, long-running shounen if you actually build the need for strategy into fights.

I don't mind the power creep, I mind the constant Saiyan cockslurping and the complete refusal to let any of the other characters shine. There used to be a time when Goku would INSPIRE his friends to try to keep up with him, and then we get to see Tien do his best Gohan impression and job like crazy during the tournament. Come the fuck on, goddamn.

At least 17 got to shine, but it's nowhere near enough. Piccolo and Krillin deserve better.

Yeah but you still need transformations. Characters improving their strategy is good, but what would their transformations do to avoid contributing to power creep?

But Freeza blows up planet Namek and then Majin Buu kills every single human on Earth and if memory serves he moves on to killing people in heaven/the Kai world. Isn't that increased stakes? Aren't the fights being portrayed as more impactful?

>Majin Buu makes less than Freeza. Aren't the fights being portrayed as more impactful?

Don't focus you manga entirely on "power". Power creep gone. Wow who thought it was that easy.

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Stands lol, they can still transform. (Echoes, Tusk, Golden Experience)

For transformations, you can do something like a state-change maybe? In dbz terms, Kaoken = speed, super Saiyan = power and so on. That way you satisfy the visual element while keeping them relevant and making powers more of a tool kit instead of a numbers thing.

>keep the stories short
>introduce a skill ceiling by displaying the final opponent's power level somewhere early on
>rather than raw strength, have the powers be versatile gimmicks and the protagonist improves through learning how to use them more effectively (think if we would get to see Mikasa from childhood to her JK years)

Stands work decently well because their powers are all so different I guess. You have some that are pretty broken and can only be beaten through bullshittery, like Man in the Mirror or Death 13, but they generally vary enough that there's always some weak point to exploit, even without a power up.

Introduce an omnipotent character. Power ceiling fixed forever.

A story can't be more clever than the person writing it.

Get rid of transformations. Characters should only get power-ups from new techniques.

>higher kill count

There's literally nothing wrong with powercreep

Kill count doesn't equal impact

based.

Don't make the battles about "hurr I'm stronger than you". Also rotate the cast whenever all the interesting possibilities have been explored.
Jojo gets it.

>an actually sensible response
what the fuck, am I still on Yea Forums?

Transformations change your fighstyle/add different abilites, don't make you stronger.

He literally goes to heaven and continues killing. That's higher impact than Freeza. Blowing up some useless rock doesn't equal impact.

That has more to do with the planet itself than the power of the enemy. If planet vegeta had 10 billion inhabitants the killcount would have been bigger.

Nope you're just dreaming.

>higher kill count in a universe where people can be revived

We solved it

The impact comes from the narrative buildup, not their destructive power. For reference check Hajime no Ippo.

you're actually in a coma, user. please wake up, we miss you.

>kill weaklings
>impactful

So we archive now?

idea 1: make the story different arcs with different main characters like Jojo did to keep power levels in check

idea 2: make the transformation something like getting a new power/ability that isn't a straight power up and make the battles more about strategy

I don't think power creep can be completely avoided for long series that keep the same mc because you want to introduce stronger enemies as you go on, but it can be mitigated

Idea 3: Do what pokemon does and have the fighting system be inconsistent and make the protag a complete retard lol

>Pokemon
based

>have the fighting system be inconsistent and make the protag a complete retard lol
Also known as the american style

Meanwhile in the west everyone stays roughly the same power and the only time they get more powerful is if they get a new power that never lasts or they figure out a better way to use their current powers. The worst is the occasional jobbing but as long as your name isn't Martian Manhunter then you shouldn't worry about it.

Instead of getting stronger, it's about feats. Shounen power creep makes things like defeating a strong villain at the time meaningless. Even Goku has mentioned how defeating Frieza seemed small compared to what he could do. Of course that was before Super.

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The fights in there are also completely meaningless. Any hero teams up or defeats any other no matter which scale their powers are, Thanos defeats 12 heroes at once with no glove just because, any issue that's not a special one-off carefully-selected by Yea Forums has no tension or plot other than hero punches villain making a random reference note to issue #521 then punching another villain and that's all with no character development/plot making naruto, boku no hero and super combined look well.

How does one or two transformations per character sound then? They can be unique and hard to achieve while not getting out of hand like it did in DBZ.

Limits, bullet proof laws that can't be overcome, and variety of powers that keep other powers in check.

If you have no internal logic, and no laws to follow, and it's just a straight shot up with power then there is nowhere for you to go.

The power scaling in DB worked because we all understood what was going on. Even the fighters and it showed in their matches.
DBS is just random bullshit happening because they have to sell a new toy or some other show is threatening to pick up steam so they throw a bit more money at something to make it look better but be ultimately fucking stupid because no one thought anything out.

They litterally did that in DBZ with the super saiyajin grades and SSJ forms overall.

However the new authors of DB shit on it because they are faggots and can't think their way out of an empty three sided room.

user, Dende is dead and Namek was going to be next on the Kid Buu rape train.
Even the people in the afterlife wouldn't have been able to undermine the life and death cycle to bring back the dead.
They'd ruin everything.
After Buu gets his fill of murder and mayhem and eats enough evil in the universe he'd go into a hibernation and the universe will be at peace and begin to grow anew for a few hundred million years.

That's how it's been with the kid since before the multiverse was created.

Thanos beats 12 heroes because he's legitimately stronger then every human born fighter period. Think captain marvel(Gennis vell not the dyke)or even world breaker hulk can do anythign? Hell no.

You'd have to side step pure power and start bringing in bullshit powerful people like fucking Legion and Franklin and Mad Jim Jaspers, MAYBE Jean Grey if she's alive.

Just end it after a big villain is defeated, but that's not exactly the WSJ money-making model.

>he is that strong just because
I mean, ok I guess. might be interesting to comic book readers

>Frieza is that strong just because.

I mean, ok I guess. might be interesting to comic book readers.

Want to know why he's so strong?
He was from a race of beings that were built to be prototype humans and sent to live on another planet in earths solar system.
They were built by universal deities to be powerful.
And among those people he was exceptionally strong and smart.
He also modified his own body and learned martial arts, telepathy, magic, science that makes him on par with the galactus himself.
He's a self made entity.


Frieza?
Just born strong. That's it.

And you know what.
I accept both.

>takes 5 minutes to destroy a planet
>Kid Buu casually destroys earth
>Golden Frieza weakened destroys earth in a second with his palms
Seems pretty consistent not gonna lie

No wonder Beerus sleeps so much, fucker had two guys doing his work for him

I guess it felt bland but that's not unlike people complaining about Jiren and this guy be like Freeza fused with Jiren or something but there was more to the series in general so I concede this point I guess, shrug.

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