He will have to inevitably kill him in the end no?

Worlds are merged so where would they even be banished to now?

What I wanna know is what happened to Skull Knight. It's his job to explain this to us. Schierke can only do so much, and she's already been wrong once. We need the plot exposition skeleton.

Fantasia is just pushing the interstice more into the physical realm, however the troll cave was said to be very deep into the interstice back then, as a note when Slan hurt Guts she gave him a wound that hurt his soul too, that's how deep the cave was, so it was at least as deep as Fantasia if not more

What if Moonboy goes to see Casca and Guts and SK redognizes he's Femto this time and tries to take him out this time? He might have figured it out when he attacked Femto at Ganishka. Would Guts fight the Skull Knight to protect his demon son?

but what if Guts invokes his behelit and sacrifices Moonchild

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I think you don't understand that Godhand Femto returned to the world in full during the mock Eclipse. Even before Fantasia, he wasn't half there in some vessels like Fran was in the Qliphoth. Femto was fully reborn through the Egg Apostate as our current Griffith-Femto that can freely change between the two forms. Femto would never sit on his ass possessing some Griffith mockup from the deep planes of the astral planes. He's exactly the kind to set up something as crazy as the mock Eclipse so that he can be there himself. The only hiccup was the Egg eating the babu and causing the Moon Child phenomenon in Femto that will inevitably end up as the crack in Femto's armor that will lead to his defeat.

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Speedreader-kun here, can someone explain to me the last panel of this chapter? Is griffith the moon child? If so whats his endgame.
Because I honestly barely remember what moonchild served for when he was shown, its been a while since I've re-read this

No, just an exorcism.

Pretty sure that's not how it was actually explained. The Qliphoth is a fairly deep layer, but Fantasia is different. It's not a layer at all; it's the planes combined. I'll look up the pages regarding the merged world shortly. There's what Slan herself said and also the pages regarding Fantasia's advent. And perhaps also what Skull Knight said before Griffith's reincarnation festival.

Miura specifically wrote Ganishka to give Griffith an opponent "on his level", so I wouldn't expect any retarded shounen fights between Guts and Griffith. Whatever showdown they may have will probably be more on the emotional/personal level.

I really want to believe this manga will finish one day.

Moonboy always shows up during a full moon. We've long expected that it was Guts' child exerting some control over Femto's vessel since merging into it during Conviction arc. The panel shows Griffith noticing his hair getting darker and then vanishing with the full moon, toward the dragon paths Moonboy has been using to get around since the boat.

Whatever the case, combat will be involved somehow. This manga isn't about to start foregoing action and become entirely cerebral. I like it too but don't kid yourself

What's weird is moonboy never triggered the brand. Schierke's seal is good but not that good. Slan sheared it off by accident just by existing.

Griffith is a demon but the Moonchild is pure. Schierke does mentions it has an unusual aura.

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But then how can the moonchild be close to Guts and Caska without their brand having a huge reaction to Femto's presence?????

What would Casca say if she found out that Charlotte fucked Griffith first, then she was the cause of everything, and now she fucks his son? Remember that she also Flirt with Guts . It may be that she is the real monster who likes to take everything away from Casca ... plus she is also a pedophile

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Griffith and Moonboy are the same thing, though. They're even described similarly, having the same capriciousness.

Here's Slan's statement regarding it. Schierke also says much the same thing in the previous volume. I'll just transcribe it.

>Normally this could not happen, the astral and physical worlds so distinctly overlapping each other. Trolls and ogres, elves and spirits. Ethereal life-forms are being perceived by humans almost as if they had physical bodies. They were originally inhabitants of our mental world...In nocturnal dreams and fantasies. If they were to end up existing in the physical world...the world would be transformed. No, perhaps it has already started happening with the appearance of a certain individual.

The scene where he saved Guts from drowning cinched it for me. Definitely a fusion of the kid and Griffith.

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Other anons have pointed out that when they found the Moonchild for the first time, Guts had a feeling of being watched and we see something that appears to be the shadow of Zodd's horn sticking out from a hill. There is also a panel showing the brand, which is typical when Guts feels it prickle, and there is a panel from the point of view of someone spying on the beach from upward. From such a great distance the Brand wouldn't bleed, it typically happens in close quarter and the brand is sealed, but Guts might feel something is off. This was largely forgotten because in a few chapters Guts fights demon crocodiles on that beach so people assumed this was just a hint of a fight coming up. If Griffith turns into an alter-ego then it makes sense that Zodds looks over it.

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So much speculation. I guess we'll just have to wait another year to find out its another Griffith chapter

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Here Femto makes it sound pretty darn deep.

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The moon child, Falconia Griffith and Femto seem to be real and not avatars.
Avatars are made from some material, like how Slan used troll guts, but the moon child and Griffith aren't using something else to materialize in. Griffits entire essense turned into the moon child (unwillingly even as if he got "spirited away"). We haven't seen Femto materialize in anything other than himself, not in troll guts, rocks, dead bodies or any other material not belonging to him/ that isn't him.
If this is correct then Griffith, Femto and the Moon child could be killed by the dragon slayer.

I'm fairly sure that Miura will simply find a way to asspull Griffith's soul out of child's body.

And finally here's what SK says about the Godhand not ordinarily being able to take flesh in the physical world, as they are too large to fit. With the physical and astral world merged...well, there's likely a reason that during the montage showing the changed world there were individual pages dedicated to the remaining four Godhand.

As "bodies of thought" they aren't entirely unlike Schierke's description of inhabitants of the mental world being perceived as if they were of flesh and blood. But for the Godhand, a much larger scale overlap was required. And that is what was described as happening.

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THIS CHILD IS UNHOLY GRIFFITH
RIP AND TEAR

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no they are not the same person, there would not even be a drama for Guts and Casca if that were the case, they would kill him without problems because it would only be Griffith doing the troll

Oh snap, first there was darkness and then there was light. Griffith is both the hawk of light and darkness. Calling it now

pottery

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The more things change the more they stay the same, eh dad?

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I was suddenly struck with curiosity: do we know for sure that the demon child triggers the brand? Before I looked in the manga I would have said yes, but after looking it seems there is no evidence it's true. The demon child appears in a cell in the first volume and while it sends Guts in a panic, there is no panel where we see the brand bleeding. In the chapter where it is born one may assume that it is making Casca's brand bleed, but Casca's brand was already bleeding before it was born because they were surrounded by demonic entities.

If the demon child never triggered the brand in the first place, it is consistent that the Moonchild doesn't.

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I fuckin hope so

Femto can warp space.
I have a hard time believing Guts can do anything to Femto if the Skull Knight couldn't do shit to Void after all this time.

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haha wouldnt be funny if Guts snapped and his sword accidentally sliced everyone on this scene and now he is alone again haha. i hate those characters so fucking much holy shit

That would be bad writing desu (if they are the same being with a split personality), but i can see someone preventing the moon child from turning back into Griffith. That would be the end though. Guts has his wife, son (and friend) back, but that ending is too pure.

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BRAVO Guts, Gambino would be proud

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these two panels is how I feel reading modern Berserk chapters

if Casca dies with his group, only Guts and the child would remain and he would be in the same situation as Gambino, it would be up to him then to decide to be a better father

Even greater pottery: Griffith is darkness with light inside. Guts is now light with darkness inside.

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Why not just sacrifice Griffith?

Because that would be admitting that Griffith is still important to him

Kind of looks like Donovan

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kinda looks like my testicles

Because Griffith is a demon and can't be sacrificed, but perhaps the mortal flesh he is inhabiting can be.

So sort of like the Count's sacrifice? Or Rosine's? Or Ganishka's...damn, looking back all of the apostles we know of sacrificed the person that they both loved - and hated - the most. Shit, even Nobody. How did I not pick up on that until now?

So that's where Griffith's new form got those luscious dick sucking lips.

when i first saw the moon child i thought it was casca and guts’ kid. i was also a dumb kid who speedread everything so i definitely need to reread berserk one day

He is Casca's and Gut's kid, but also Griffith.

>him
You're trying to tell me this is a trap?

Some of the sacrifices were the result of a love/hate relationship but that's a minority. The Count strictly loved his daughter. He asked, begged, to sacrifice someone else and the God Hand refused.

Lol if she dies it would probably be her own fault for doing something stupid like jumping in the middle of the fight. I do hope that current Casca wants Griffith dead for sacrificing the Hawks.

Also, we can get Guts struggling with fatherhood without Casca dying. Deaths should serve a purpose.

Bingo. Most sacrifices seem to be whatever those people loved the most, but also the source of their greatest torment.

So why does Griffith want to larp as Guts' son?

Guts had darkness inside ever since Donovan.

>but also Griffith.
yeah i don’t remember this at all. i thought casca’s kid ended up being the demented baby that was griffith’s kid and then it got absorbed by a behelit or something

You should see a doctor about that

>When you realize the Moonchild/Griffith thing is pretty much what happened in The Fly.

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You were right all along.

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His daughter was the only thing he truly loved at that point. You can't sacrifice something that doesn't matter to you, which is why most sacrifices seem to involve strong, conflicted feelings of love and hate/pain.

He's technically his own son too. The child was created between Guts, Casca, and him.

The deformed baby was Gut's and Casca's unborn child that got corrupted by the rape, since the Egg Apostle swallowed him prior to the reincarnation Giffith and the baby merged.

The Fly was a perfect merge, this is two assholes taking turns. Griffith/Moonchild is doctor Jekyll and mister Hyde.

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Maybe at some point, but in the recent chapters it makes less sense the other way around.

Griffith and Moonboy are said to be similar, though.

This is why OT3s just don't work.

oh yeah i forgot griffith wasn’t actually like in the world and skull boy fucked up or something. it’s been too long

I meant it in the way how this happens because an unexpected foreign entity accidentally merges with the original person that was meant to come out.

I'm saying the Count wouldn't have been offered the choice to sacrifice Theresa if it strictly required a love/hate relationship, or if Miura wanted to use the main theme of love/hate relationships for every single sacrifice scenes. A lot of relationships in Berserk are love/hate, because they are interesting to write and to read about, but that shouldn't be confused as a sacrifice mechanic or a main theme. The God Hand explains the sacrifice mechanic, the requirement is love.

Moonboy is similar to old Griffith, specifically the part of him that was childlike and innocent. Femto is more like the side of old Griffith that was predatory and cruel. So far the vessel has been more cold and unemotional than old Griffith, although the way he spoke during the most recent chapter was surprisingly kindhearted.

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I'm not saying the love/hate relationship is required formally, only that it's exactly the type of relationship that tends to result in a sacrifice. A despairing person probably won't sacrifice something they love the most unless they also have some strong feelings that make them want to destroy/get rid of it.

>Count wouldn't have been offered the choice to sacrifice Theresa if it strictly required a love/hate relationship
You sure about that? Because she scorned him a lot. I remember this scene in particular when she really pissed him off, but he held back. He loved her more than he hated her (he refused to sacrifice, after all) but I think there was some resentment on his end, too.

And she DID look just like her mom...

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Sounds like the rebirth simply recreated the old Griffith then. Imagine Griffith's face when he realizes that even remaking the world wasn't enough to get rid of his fragile human nature.

You are correct. In every case that was explicitly shown to us, there have been elements of love and hate.

As a matter of fact, looking back at Ganishka in particular, I'd question if love is even necessary in the capacity that we commonly think of it as. He barely even knew his son, had purposefully avoided him his entire life because he was afraid of him. But the reason he was able to sacrifice him is because Ganishka's son reminded him of himself.

>unless they also have some strong feelings that make them want to destroy/get rid of it.
This is also important. It's much emphasized during the Count's ceremony as well as Griffith's during the eclipse. The idea that they longed to bury their fragile human heart and be free from hesitation and pain.

He loved her, she hated him. That's not a love/hate relationship, that term is used to refer to the same person both loving and hating someone or something. Theresa's feelings are completely irrelevant to her value as a sacrifice. The God Hand tells us the requirement is love.

griffith never wanted to get rid of it

where do you guys see the part about griffith being the moon child?
the current chapter I saw is just griffith jumping out a window?

>He loved her, she hated him.
He loved her, but there was definitely a certain level of resentment. And her appearance reminded him of the one he did sacrifice; his late wife. Which is likely why he kept her locked away all the time. You'd have to be blind not to see that his feelings were more complicated than you're making them out to be.

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You for real, user? In any case, there's a page that explicitly shows it happening to him. Not to mention all the agonizing he did over his feelings for Guts starting to overshadow his great dream. And his trip to the hill of swords to make sure he didn't feel anything.

His hair is darkening (slightly). He says "again, tonight" like something bothersome is happening to him regularly, something that he can't control, hinted by his hair. The spirit tree is in the window and the Moonchild appears with the spirit tree.

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The kid will just sacrifice himself to defeat Griffith. I don't think Guts will have to kill him.

I think the manga will end with Guts and Casca raising Griffith as their son. Blonde hair and all.

thanks, I wouldn't have remembered the spirit tree art
honestly I've had trouble retaining anything after they left the boat

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>I'm not saying the love/hate relationship is required formally, only that it's exactly the type of relationship that tends to result in a sacrifice. A despairing person probably won't sacrifice something they love the most unless they also have some strong feelings that make them want to destroy/get rid of it.
>have some strong feelings that make them want to destroy/get rid of it.
Grunbeld case negates the part of "destroy/get rid of it", instead those strong feelings that justify sacrificing are of mercy.

The conflict between his strong sensitivity and his conviction that he can't allow himself to feel strongly about things is the biggest problem he has in the Golden Age arc, culminating in his self-destruction. Also note this part during the Eclipse: it came to "freeze his heart" when he was in so much pain that it was ripping him to pieces. The Behelit came as a salvation from his human frailty.

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>Grunbeld case
Where did you learn the details of Grunbeld's sacrifice?

Slight correction: the Japanese text says "as expected/as I thought", not "again". Similar, but the nuance is slightly different.

flame dragon knight novel, getting its official English release soon i think

Light Novel is out.

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>probably won't sacrifice
I said it's the most likely reason, not the only one possible.

He kept her locked away because he lost his human heart and became a tyrant terrorizing his county and he didn't want his daughter to know. He didn't lock her up because he hates her for her appearance. It goes against the entire point of the crucial final scene if the count secretly hated his daughter. His love as a father was pure, and yet nothing else about him was human.

Oh, neato. Look forward to that.

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call me when Theresia gets her revenge

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why do you like manga about rape
rape is bad you are bad

What even happened to her anyway?

She's been training all this time and now she is a gigantic buff amazon in plate armor. Just kidding Miura forgot her.

I never said he hated her outright, just that there were reasons he may have resented her. And Theresia obviously did know about all his actions outside. The Count himself explained it to her, and she in turn explained it to Puck. He just didn't want anyone else near his daughter because of what really happened with his wife.

So he didn't hate her, but the idea that she didn't piss him off is just not true. That doesn't invalidate the pure love. But even that love itself, representing his last shred of humanity, is something he'd both treasure and resent. Remember, he sacrificed his wife to be rid of soft vulnerable feelings. This is plainly stated more than once.

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It's been about two years since Guts last saw her, so it's not like she could do much now.

She goes around brutally raping entire troll dens in preparation for loli-hatefucking Guts to death

what chad genes guts must have? , made a white son with a black woman !!!!!!!!!

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>And Theresia obviously did know about all his actions outside
She knew nothing. Once she learns the truth about what's going on she falls into despair, she yells that it's all a lie, she begs to forget and she wishes she was back in her jail where she knew nothing. Then she blames it all on Guts which leads to this page .

he's not his son, he just malformed him

no, it is similar to a child because he is a child, whereas Griffith was a man with a childlike character

it is not a canon, Miura did not write it

Casca seems heavily mixed to begin with. Probably >half Midlander, with the rest being whatever the fuck darkies in Berserk are supposed to be.

I strongly doubt she's Kushan as some say though. The idea that it would never warrant so much as a passing mention from anyone, anywhere with all the Kushan shit that was happening stretches my disbelief as thin as spider's web.

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Not canon and not written by the author are two different things depending on what the author has to say on the subject.

It was written by Fukami under the supervision of Miura, is as canon as it gets for Grumbelds backstory.

Except it's repeatedly shown that the Moonchild has adult-like intelligence. This described Griffith as well - he was a mass of contradictions.

>She knew nothing.
The manga directly contradicts that. I'm going to post some pages, but after that I don't think I'm gonna keep debating this. We'll have to agree to disagree.

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She could easily pass for a modern day Indian/Pakistani. She was also being sold as a slave, something that would be normal for Kushan POW's and their families acquired in raids and war (this used to be normal on the entire globe).

That guy in your pic is definitely an African.

no, it's a shy child always attached to his mother, like Guts before Shisu died, he was intelligent even before reincarnation when he told Guts that Casca was going to be burned, Griffith has nothing to do with it

And that's it.

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No. Griffith will run his kingdom and every now and then transform into the moonlight child so he can roleplay as the child of guts and casca while guts and casca live a happy, simple life forever after. griffith will unite the world and save it from the tyranny of the idea of evil and his reign will be eternal and everyone will be happy forever and ever.

>in the end

If she were Kushani someone would have said something at Albion or at Vritannis, or anywhere between there. There were Kushan raiding parties murdering people across the countryside. Cities were rounding up and hanging anyone that might be a Kushan spy. Silatt could have mentioned it when he met her. Nah, she's mixed something. And if she's mixed Kushan it's subtle enough that she'd never be mistaken for one.

And I'd hardly call what happened to her a slave auction. She was sold to a noble as a "servant girl" because her family was poor regardless of skin tone looooong before the Kushan invasion.

Right, can someone explain to me why exactly God Hand allowed Femto/Griffith to create Falconia etc.? It's always struck me as being a raw deal for them, since prior to the second Eclipse they seemed to exist to turns people into Apostles (amongst other things) during times of desperation. But now Apostles are co-existing with humans - surely this should be something God Hand don't want?

>everyone
Only the monkey is pointless, if you thought the series could go on for so long with just Guts killing apostle of the week #531 you're a brainlet

Dude, he repeatedly appears to Guts as a figure of light. Now, who in Berserk is always described as a "huge white star", "Hawk of Light" etc.?

>God Hand don't want?
We have no idea what the God Hand wants apart from acting as agents of causality and shit.

The God Hand is an extension of the IoE, which in turn is controlled by the collective unconscious of humanity. If humanity is changing, so will the IoE.

If it's too different from my expectations for Berserk and doesn't really fit with the tone of the rest of the series I'll probably wind up disregarding it. I wonder about Miura's standards these days for what he finds passable outside of his own writing, in light of lackluster anime adaptations and his own apparent decline in passion for releasing content.

I'm still 100% on board for what he writes himself, but I worry about him rubber stamping mediocre fanfiction.

Femto is a member of Godhand and is realising his dream. I speculate that other members are in their personal paradises on Earth too.

But you're posting evidence that she was kept in the dark. You are posting pages where she say things that we later learn are false. The cult didn't murder her mother, her father did. Heretics didn't kidnap her mother, that was a cult worshiper. She mentions that her father changed and that he doesn't feel human but that's a figure of speech at that point. She is not aware that he is literally not human. She is not aware that he literally eats people. She becomes aware of these things later and her reaction is unmistakable. She doesn't say "I knew it", she says "I refuse to believe it". This conversation is silly. I don't know why you need to argue that the Count hated his daughter just to satisfy a weak theory that all Apostles, all of them, strictly choose to sacrifice characters in a love/hate relationship. It couldn't be any clearer that the Count loved his daughter. He locked her up and lied to her because he feared losing her love. He lost it anyway, and even still he loved her and refused to betray her.

If Slann is any indication, the Godhand are excited about Femto's ascension. We don't know why yet, as we know very little about the rest of the Godhand and their individual long term goals.

>I speculate that other members are in their personal paradises on Earth too.
Void only ever wanted to be a painter.

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Not everything she stated there was false. Only the details about her mother. His current actions are in line with her statements.

Well fuck now I'll have to live to 100 to find out.
It seems a shame though, I always thought that perhaps Falconia etc. meant that Griffith/Femto had found a way to dupe the God Hand and somehow deny them Apostles by civilizing them, thus winning his kingdom against even them. Seemed more impressive in that its just an extra length Griffith went to in order to come into his kingdom.

It's not a small detail that her father sacrificed her mother and ascended to demonhood and now eats people

>in the end

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The God Hand's only instruction is to do whatever the fuck they want, and to create apostles whenever they use the behelits. They probably don't really give a fuck about the whole situation, maybe think it's kinda interesting. The God Hand only make people apostles as like a part of a contract. It's not like they're getting paid to do it.

The initial statement was in regards to his brutality and "terrorizing the country", which she did know about. Locking her up wasn't to hide that information.

It was never about whether she knew everything about him being a monster, and the people in the city couldn't have told her that anyway. But you're at least right that this conversation is getting incredibly stupid and tiresome. I stand by what I said earlier, feel free to do the same.

>The God Hand are just extra dimensional notaries.

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They are the chosen Guardian Angels of Desire. It's in their nature to do it, even if they don't get paid. It's like birds flying or fish swimming for them to hear out those that activate a behelit.

Granted, but the fact that Guts and Griffith have such overwhelming sources of motivation makes the God Hand seem a little placid, like they're bystanders despite their major influence and power. I think I'd prefer it almost if Griffith/Femto had tricked them into allowing the Second Eclipse by playing on their impartiality, only for them to discover that they'd been cheated and find themselves growing weaker the stronger Falconia grew. Hell, you could even have God Hand offer Guts freedom from the Brand in return for killing Femto to restore normality.

>like they're bystanders
I mean, they are. The God Hand themselves admit they aren't in control and are only there as agents of causality, which is beyond them.

The princess believed that she was a boy. She was wearing a dress during the ball (not intimidating) and we weren't really shown what the nobles were gossipping about. For all i know they did noticed, but refrained from taking action. The band was a group of misfits to begin with, so a Kushan wouldn't be that out of place and fits with Griffith's later philosophy of incorporating Kushans into his army.
I also imagine that a Kushan female would look a lot like her and Indians/Pakistani's do look like mixed girls (to some) with some even calling them white.

>I'd hardly call what happened to her a slave auction
Never mentioned auctions. Slave auctions were held in the Caraibbeans, but you could buy slaves on markets in Africa and Europe.

>before the Kushan invasion
There's no reason to assume that there weren't any Kushans in Midland prior to the invasion.

Smells like a Kushani to me

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Femto's appearance signals a great change. Even the IoE didn't know what it meant, exactly, but I can imagine it does sound exciting if you're a glorified astral notary.

We do know there were kushan in midland prior to the invasion. They made special note of them and the fact that they were kushan, treating it as something special and exotic. My main point is that if she looked obviously kushan, people wouldn't ignore it. Forget the golden age, most people wouldn't ignore it during Conviction or beyond. So either she's kushan and doesn't look like it at all or she's just not.

The auction bit wasn't the point so much as she wasn't sold like a typical slave. Poor people pawning off children to rich people as maids or servants didn't have that same institutional connotation as the slavery you described.

Indeed. Griffith's army was already crazy by Midland standards (a highly learned, literate commander who was still practically a teenager, a female vice-commander, decent behaviour etc.), so Casca's hypothetical Kushan blood would be the least strange thing about it.

Doesn't mesh with their status in the story and any and all characters' total lack of reaction to it, well outside of the golden age. Fuck, the golden age would be when it was least relevant so I don't even know why that keeps coming up.

She is tanned or not?

Nah. Her skin has always been dark. We've been given no reason to believe it isn't naturally that way, any more than Pippin or Silat or Donovan or Boscogn

Even dark skinned people tan, though. Someone who is medium brown becomes dark brown if they spend enough time in the sun. Of course, we're given no reason to think that Midland is all that sunny.

casca's period blood

She spent over a year living in a cave and hardly ever going out. If she was gonna de-brown, I think it would have happened.

She could be like Pippin, of undetermined ethnic origin, but that doesn't imply "heavily mixed" at all. Pippin would be heavily mixed going from the standards you seemed to use. Her being Kushan was one of the more passable explanations of her ethnicity. Foreigners (or non-whites) were living in Midland after all and nobody seemed to care.She could be like Pippin, of undetermined ethnic origin, but that doesn't imply "heavily mixed" at all. Pippin would be heavily mixed going from the standards you seemed to use. Her being Kushan was one of the more passable explanations of her ethnicity. Foreigners (or non-whites) were living in Midland after all and nobody seemed to care.

Unless the Kushans wore traditional garbs like the other Kushans in Midland, but Casca has never been seen wearing those, so there's no reason to assume that she would cause a commotion.

Puck turned me ghey.

No, just fairy-sexual, but that's normal. I kinda miss old Puck, the actual comic-relief Puck is annoying