What's the best shonen of all time?

snk, tokyo ghoul

Yuyu only seasons 1 and 2 though

Za-
Ah, I see FPBP

Astro Boy

Hokuto no ken

My Hero Academia by far

Hunter x Hunter

Law of Ueki

HxH

One piece

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HxH, chimera ant arc only though.

> HxH 2011
> One piece have one pace
> Naruto have no filler project
> Bleach was canceled

Full metal alchemist.
The only shonen manga I can think of that didn’t overstay it’s welcome and the author was never reaching for ideas.

>muh boogeyman
Rent free

this
>delivers exactly what a shonen should delivers
>not enough serious to be talking of asspulls
>immaginative battles
>comfy chapter after comfy chapter about the eating
>protagonists are not whiny little pussies
Toriko is the perfect shonen

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>never reaching for ideas
Its cute that you think that.

Ashita no Joe. Not only it is a masterpiece, but it has had an enormous influence on authors and the public alike, circulating among the student protesters in the late 60s and channeling the gloom and sense of hopelessness of a generation

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gash bell

Can you give an example?

this, but only part 1 tg

+Anima. Prove me wrong.

O cosmo no seu coração

HxH isn't a shounen

>not a Shounen
>It's published on fucking Shounen Jump

Nice bait

Its a shoujo

You're right it's horribly overhyped medicority.

/thread

So what if its published in Jump? Eva and JoJo used to be published in a shounen magazine too.

why are people obssessed with a new "big 3". The big three was a phenomenon that happened in the west at the right now, just because a new manga is popular doesn't mean all of sudden it can be a new big 3.

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Devilman was also published in a "shounen" magazine. But you wouldnt put that in the same category as fucking Naruto and Bleach.

Shounen is a demographic, if the fact that HxH is targeted for adolescents bothers you, I don't know what to say, but it's a Shounen through and through, and I say this as someone who loves the series

> if the fact that HxH is targeted for adolescents
Any proof to back that up? You know that HxH started in 1998 and it has had steady sales throughout its publication, meaning that the core fandom has been the same since 1998, and now they are all adults.
You know that more than 50% of Jump's readership is between 20 and 50?

I'm not debating the quality of the series, but how the term Shounen was used, we all know that it is a demographic and fooling ourselves saying that "it's not a Shounen" is just plainly wrong

Based and redpilled. Battle shounen faggots BTFO

By that logic dragon ball is a seinen

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NONONONONONOOOOOOO stop laughing at us CONANCHADS

>HxH is targeted for adolescents
no one who actually reads it would say this, just fyi, you're outing yourself as a shitposter

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this

I'm not the one saying that just because a series is published by a shounen magazine, that makes it a shounen. The magazine argument is irrelevant.
What differentiates between shounen and seinen are the thematics, graphic violence, adult and mature story telling, prophanities etc

replace attack on titan with sword art online, it will get more yous

The people who read Jump are mostly children: animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-02-23/manga-mags-demographics-circulation-numbers-posted
And I'm not discussing the fact that there are adult people who read HxH or that the more mature readers may enjoy the story more or understand its themes better, I'm just saying that it is a Shounen and this doesn't change that it's a great work

>thematics, graphic violence, adult and mature story telling, prophanities
HXH isnt special in any of those categories

JoJo is shonen as well. It wasn't considered seinen until SBR.

Here is a poll made by a Japanese program. Way more reliable than youir ANN article.
You can see the core readership for One Piece is from 20 to 40 years old. If One Piece, one of the most childish manga out there, has a demographic of adults, then your magazine argument is a joke.
The truth is that old series, specially those from the late 90s like HxH and OP have an adult demographic.

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> not understanding how IQ works

HxH gets low ranking in Jump though. Most of its readership comes from adults buying the volumes.

yikes

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Shounen and Seinen are not a genre, they indicate the demographic towards which the series is supposedly marketed, devilman, ashita no Joe, slam dunk, HxH, one piece, death note and Naruto are all Shounen, but their genre is clearly different

Correct.

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This just proves Togashi is a shit writer that cant keep a story coherent

Then why did Viz (owned by Shueisha) rate it as a seinen and put it in the same category of Pluto and All You Need Is Kill?

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>published in shonen mag
>seinen

The demographic for HxH is older than 18 because the series has been running since 1998. This is proved by the fact that the sales for each volume have been the same throught the years, meaning that the core fandom is the same one that started reading it in 1998

>anything more complex than I GOOD GUY YOU BAD GUY LET'S FIGHT = incoherent

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Fullmetal Alchemist is pretty good. I don't think the latter half carries quite as much weight as the first, but it's one of the few mainstream Shonen manga that feels like it had a cemented idea for a story in mind and went through with telling it, rather than abruptly cutting off or milking the franchise indefinitely.

Nice strawman

Togashi is above Jump rules and restrictions because he owns the rights for HxH. He's the only author in Jump who owns the rights for his own series, so they let him do whatever he wants, as he said in an interview. No one else would get away with pic related. Does this look like it belongs into a shounen to you?

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Never said that a series can't have an adult audience, I'm just saying that you can't arbitrarily decide if it's a Shounen or not based on the readership, because that isn't a factor, I don't really understand what point are you trying to make, does it really hurt you that it is a Shounen? It certainly doesn't change my enjoyment of the serie, if anything, I would like to see more series like it published on Jump, surely it will stimulate the audience more than MHA or BC

I wanted to see Tenko eat some people

read the manga, my fav part of it is the second part of the original manga

>ITS A SHOUNEN BECAUSE IT HAS A YOUNG DEMOGRAPHIC
>gets proven wrong
>WELL WHATEVER I NEVER SAID THAT, BUT ITS STILL A SHOUNEN

Rurouni Kenshin of course.

Hisoka's backstory alone is better than the entirety of TG.

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>a series running for decades have fans who are now adults.
Well, yes? Of course it will. There's nothing unique or special to find out that a long running series have fans who've been around. Having fans who've been following since the beginning doesn't change who the publisher is or the bookstore shelving designation.

Gayest shonen ever, literally barafag bait the entire way.

yyh

>No one else would get away with pic related
Bitch please
>The Heart

Based Hero/Clover chads

>2 words
>comparable to what he posted

are you braindead or

I said it's a Shounen because it's targeted towards a young audience, not because it HAS a young audience, please do yourself a favour and go read a definition of Shounen, because this is beyond ridiculous

>bookstore shelving designation.
I'm an english teacher in Japan and whenever I go buy HxH volumes, I always find them next to University textbooks.

>empty page
>compared not an empty page

>I said it's a Shounen because it's targeted towards a young audience
I just proved you that this isn't true. HxH has been around since 1998 and the core demographic has grown up. Now all the fans are adults.

I'll give my opinion based on what I have read/watched.

>one piece
Pretty fun albeit formulaic. It has been declining in quality for a while but that doesn't taint its former glory.

>jojo
Inconsistent as fuck but fun. The seinen segments of the story (SBR and Jojolion) appeal to me more though.

>naruto
Bad. Soulless. I hate the main cast.

>bleach
Early Bleach is super good and fun. It gets kinda silly around Soul Society and then becomes mediocre.

>Hunter X Hunter
I'd say it's the best in my opinion. Not flawless, however. Nanika and Kite coming back felt really cheap. Fuck the release schedule.

>dragon ball
Early DB is a good read. DBZ is evidently of lower quality. Still hype as fuck. Maybe the most hype anime/manga out there. DBS is silly but I'd recommend to DBZ fans who want more. GT is boring.

>my hero academia
It was pretty fun until Bakugo got kidnapped. Then it got stale. I dropped around the School Festival. I heard it gets better so ymym.

>fullmetal alchemist
The humor is not funny. I'm not too attatched to the characters. But it's very good and easy to get into.

>fairy tail
Maybe the worst anime I've ever watched.

I'm yet to reread Gash Bell but I remember loving the anime when I was younger.

So Dragon Ball is a seinen?

>it's targeted towards a young audience
The current arc of HxH is so complex it received an entire episode dedicated to analyzing it in one of the most popular TV shows in Japan. I watched that show and the producers called a professor of literature from Kyushu University just to explain to the audience the intricacies of the current arc and how it all ties up with the plot. You should find the episode on Dailymotion if you search "AmeTalk Hunter x Hunter".

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see

with part 1 i meant the first 143 chapters of the OG, user. :RE was rather disappointing

see

see

Sword Art Online

God, do you understand the difference between target audience and actual readership? I know that the series has evolved over timd, this doesn't change how it was conceived or what the author had in mind when he started it, here, have Togashi say it to you, since my words aren't convincing enough: This might be an unpleasant way to put it, but back then I thought that my next work should aim to 'hit' since I was writing for Jump and all. I had been watching readers' polls closely since the latter half of Yu Yu Hakusho's serialization. I was looking at not only my own standings, but also at things like who's number one right now with what kind of story, etc. Analyzing everything, I concluded that the popular works were about sports or battles -- stuff where there were clear winners and losers. Then I thought that if I was going to write something next, it had to be a battle manga after all

see

I guess if you're attracted to peak physical condition.

Fag.

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That quote refers to the beginning of HxH. Clearly things have changed since then. Togashi knows his readership is over the age of 25, as you can tell by reading this other interview in pic related.
I wouldn't even need to point such a obvious things out, if you actually bothered to read the last 50 chapters, which have been something you'd find only in a seinen. We haven't had a battle in 3 years and all the themes in the current arc are something you'd never find in a shounen.

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>barafag bait

Are you mad that you took the bait and you didn't get any gay mansex? I understand, I'd be mad too.

Even SNK is on Bessatsu Shonen Magazine. There is shonen intended for young teenagers and shonen intended for older teenagers..
If you are unsure which audience a manga is intended for, Shonen will usually have furigana (example for SNK below), hiragana reading aid, Seinen don't usually have them.
lhscan.net/read-shingeki-no-kyojin-raw-chapter-109.html

I literally said that the series has evolved over time in the post to which you replied to. You are confusing demographics and genres, this shouldn't be difficult to understand, I don't know why it is so complicated to elaborate, but if you have to justify your enjoyment of a series by saying that "it's for adults, I swear", you have problems of self confidence, a work of art should be appreciated in itself without any concern for the audience is was meant to, because if it has true value it will certainly spread among other people as well

Quit feigning knowledge about language you don't speak. The alternate furigana text is often something else entirely, and not necessarily katakana for some English equivalent, but text in hiragana. Sometimes those furigana subtitles in HxH even includes kanji like 一二三四人. The furigana in HxH were something completely unrelated in most cases, and often, the furigana (which is supposed to give the reading for complicated kanji in the first place) have kanji themselves.

So you think that Shounen is a demographic when more than 50% of Jump's readership is over the age of 25, when OP's readership is between 25 and 50, when all the major japanese and western websites that sell manga and anime categorize seinen and shounen under genre and when every single website about anime and manga lists seinen and shounen as genres?
There's obviously two meanings to the word in vernacular. One is the demographic and the other is a distinct and very prevalent type of genre that's essentially the hero's journey on crack. You're a moron if you think the usage of the word shounen is only applied to the former.

Normiechads will say dbz

>inb4 huntervirgins shit up the thread
Well look what happened OP

Listen, you can't clearly distinguish between what I'm saying and what you think I'm saying, here, have a definition by the OED, since you didn't bother to look it up yourself

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>The alternate furigana text is often something else entirely, and not necessarily katakana for some English equivalent, but text in hiragana. Sometimes those furigana subtitles in HxH even includes kanji like 一二三四人. The furigana in HxH were something completely unrelated in most cases, and often, the furigana (which is supposed to give the reading for complicated kanji in the first place) have kanji themselves.
Hello, can you please explain very briefly with an example on this random raw of how furigana is used in a way that is not for the sole purpose of reading aid for children? You don't have to deconstruct every panel, just one will be enough.
I am thoroughly unconvinced with what you have said so it would help if you could demonstrate it.

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Not Dragon Ball, that's for sure.

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Unironically this. It was a wild ride.

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BTW, I would like you to provide data to support your claims, I have and what you gave me was a single pie chart regarding one piece, so please, do so next time, because otherwise you are just throwing random numbers

>aimed primarily at a young male adience
>characterized by action filled plots
This doesn't describe HxH at all, though.
It is neither aimed at a young male audience since the readers are all above 25 and there hasn't been any action in 3 years.

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Imagine unironically liking shonen.

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as opposed to what? shojo?

So does Vagabond, Vinland Saga and current JoJo. Are they shounen too? HxH uses Furigana, like many other seinen titles published in Comic Alive or Grand Jump. You can clearly see that your furigana argument is null. Cope.

if Naruto was about 60% shorter, it would be Naruto.
Character development everywhere, pathos, unpredictable fights, great artstyle before Kishi got lazy

OP's flat characters has never stopped being an issue for me. It makes it too obvious that it's all just manufactured "sad, emotional" story beat, LUFFY PUNCH BAD GUY, rinse & repeat.

>Primarily
>Typically
These are adverbs user, learn how they work

>young male fiction can't be clunky and overly reliant on exposition infodumps

Seinen is superior, only babies like Shonen

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aren't the translators for HxH practically pulling their hair out because of how complex and advanced togashi's vocabulary and wording is? I remember hearing they had to go to like some expert on Japanese because he was using Kanji they had never seen before

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It would have been kino if it ended right after Pain invasion

god damn it i missed it when it was publishing, should i still go through the manga?

kishitmoto is getting a second chance

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Monthly Comic Alive and Comic Meteor are among the few seinen mags to apply complete use of furigana for their series. HxH uses Furigana, like many other seinen titles published in Comic Alive or Grand Jump. You can clearly see that your furigana argument is null.

Stream of consciousness =/= exposition.

I'm willing to bet 99.9% you don't know what's happening in that page. I'll give you 10 minutes to explain it.

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Look at this contrarian.

Only if you like amazing fight scenes and awesome worldbuilding.

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THIS.

I can see the shitpost coming

One Piece represents more than half the sales of Jump, so the chart I gave you was a good indicator of the readership of Jump. Both OP and HxH started around the same year. Besides those two, the oldest series in Jump is from 2012.

Imagine not knowing the difference between a stream of consciousness and an inner monologue and bitching about your literary taste

also second question, is the anime truly that horrible to skip it completely in favor of the manga?

Not your opinion or speculations, please, but data

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>the worst arc of a shit anime

Naruto
/thread

Sengoku Youko

Its not speculations. The two most sold manga in Jump are both from the late 90s.
Jump sells around 4-5M in total. HxH and OP make 60-70% of that.

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>old, long running manga make up more total sales than newer manga with fewer issues
whoda thunk it

>boruto
Why does this thing exist? It sells like shit

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Were you following the conversation? My point is that over 50% of Jump readership is over the age of 25 as you can deduce by the sales.

Horrible? Mmm, not really, but it does remove the goriness of the fights and tones down Toriko's mannerisms. One of Toriko's main influences is Fist of the North star, and the appeal of the fights are similar. Dudes get their body parts bitten off, ripped apart, burned up or exploded. Toriko vs Tommyrod was the bloodiest, goriest fight yet, but in the anime there's none of the gore or blood that makes the fight so intense in the manga. There's a character that uses an attack that is supposed to imitate how a cheese grater works, for example. And Toriko doesn't smoke or drink nearly as much as he does in the manga. Literally every other chapter he's sipping on three bottles of alcohol or chomping on a cigar tree branch. The anime also has its own ending, which is dogshit and is where the manga starts to get REALLY good. I can enjoy the anime because I've read the manga, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's...okay.

Also, Monkey King arc is best arc.

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You don't seem to understand that difference between every kanji having pronunciation furigana (HXH) and names and nonstandard kanji uses/pronunciations having it (Vinland Saga, Vagabond). Whatever you say, Vinland Saga and Vagabond don't use furigana as extensively as HXH and so are shown to expect a certain amount of knowledge from their readers that HXH does not.

Yeah exactly. The manga sells like shit and the anime is literally all filler

The chart you have posted is related to the volumes and not the magazine itself and, once again, nothing but gross sales, without any indication beside the number of copies. Really, this is pointless, I'm going to sleep, hope you have a good night/day, keep enjoying HxH, I will even if the fanbase can be stubborn like you sometimes

I will be merciful and accept your concession. Now get some rest after losing this battle, because you need it.

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>i-it doesn't count
Concession accepted.

Also Furigana just means you can pronounce it, it doesn't make the meaning any less complex. MS have gone on record stating that HxH is their most difficult manga to translate by far.
>HxH is not an easy series to translate by any means. Not only is it extremely text-heavy, but often also worded very ambiguously, with complex grammar and vocabulary; especially so in the current arc where Togashi is throwing one complex scenario into the mix after another, along with dictionary-styled double-meanings for them all.

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>No, I can't.
Assuming you are the same user, I suppose you were lying. If not, I am still waiting for your answer.

>Vagabond
Only uses furigana on select kanji.
>Vinland Saga
Started on Shonen magazine, I never read the manga, neither am I interested in finding out why it changed to Afternoon. From the few raws I have seen, it only uses furigana on select kanji.
>Jojo
Also used to be on a Shonen magzined and also never read it. I bet I can find the same trait as Vinland Saga.

>Magazines X and Y are few magazines that did something as an exception, these manga wouldn't have furigana without that.
Thanks for proving my point.

Before we keep on continuing this discussion, can you please tell us why HxH is supposed to be a seinen?
The fact that it uses furigana very liberally and has only ever been released on Shonen magazines are two sound arguments against it and you have to yet provide a single argument for me to doubt myself.

Hunterchads please help a brainlet out.
>dictionary-styled double-meanings
What does this mean?

Ahahah, you bastard, this is why I keep coming to this board

It's literally what it sounds like. If you look up a word in the dictionary there are usually multiple things that the word can mean.

too bad huntards have to shitpost garbage copypastas in other shounen threads to stay relevent otherwise itd be a decent anime.....but imagine losing to one piece in every poll

my point made, this guy talks about huntard like a beta onions cuck talks about trans rights

Why did you disregard the sound argument that seinen magazines make full use of Furigana? Just because it doesn't suit your agenda and BTFO your weak "MUH FURIGANA" argument?
Go check any publication by Comic Alive or Grand Jump and see for yourself how they constantly use Furigana, even more than the average shounen. Yet they are both released by a seinen magazine.

Devilman, Eva, JoJo were released in a shounen magazine too.
Dorehodoro was released in a seinen magazine but then it moved to a shounen magazine.
You understand now that the magazine is irrelevant, if Jump thinks something like Tokyo Ghoul (published in a seinen mag) would sell, they'd have published it in their magazine (see Jujutsu and Chainsaw, both rip offs of TG)

One Piece is losing readership
V.69: 3,147,224
V.70: 3,039,487
V.71 : 2,890,263
DROP
V.85: 2,400,524
V.84: 2,393,553
V.83: 2,435,076
DROP
V.92: 1,776,868

In less than 20 volumes this series has lost between 700,000 to 800,000 readers.

One Piece sales per year:
>2010
32,343,809
>2011
37,996,373

>2017
11,495,532
>2018
8,113,317

30M yearly sales lost in less than 7 years.

Can you give an example?

>these seinen using furigana doesn't count because I say so
>hasn't read fucking JoJo, one of the most entry level and influential manga ever

You should not even be browsing this board let alone speaking up to a Hunterchad. Fucking newfag scum.

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forgot im being censored on Yea Forums

HXH uses it for pronunciation purposes 99% of the time. Seinen does occasionally use furigana for unfamiliar kanji usage or for names but I think you'll find that the majority of seinen manga do not have anywhere near the amount of furigana as HXH does, because it is meant to be accessible for children. Go post a seinen manga that has furigana over the kanji 何, and i will concede. Jojolion has furigana to be accessible to younger audiences too and I''ve read another series in the same magazine that has far less furigana so it isn't a magazine mandated thing.

losing it sure, but still beating huntardxhuntard...still waiting on that content huh, "its an asspull

Alright then, so anime is just very watered down.
think i will give it a try soon then

Okay.

fag·got
/ˈfaɡət/
noun
noun: faggot; plural noun: faggots; noun: fagot; plural noun: fagots
1. INFORMAL•OFFENSIVE
a male homosexual.
2. a bundle of sticks or twigs bound together as fuel.

BASED

based

still waiting on that content huntard? trying to stay relevant with shitty memes and copypastas i see

ITT Hunterchad squad schooling shonenbabbies

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OP is losing readership at a high rate, specially with the last arcs. The latest volumes couldn't even reach the 2M sales. Unless Oda does something drastic, the sales will keep going down and in a few more volumes it will be be 1.5-1.2M

Berserk is literally shounen with a bit more blood

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taking over this board

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There's also an OVA by Ufotable that does the manga's tone some justice. There are two other films that are okay, Kaimaku Gourmet Adventure which is about Toriko teaching a kid named peck how to be a gourmet hunter in his own way and Bishokuya's Special Menu which has some dope animation and cool fights.

Please enjoy your meal.

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If you don't concede after this, you have no honor as a warrior.

thanks for proving my point

next time read my full post:
>Before we keep on continuing this discussion, can you please tell us why HxH is supposed to be a seinen?
>The fact that it uses furigana very liberally and has only ever been released on Shonen magazines are two sound arguments against it and you have to yet provide a single argument for me to doubt myself.

>Why did you disregard the sound argument that seinen magazines make full use of Furigana?
Because enforcing a full use of furigana policy completely eliminates the process of differentiating between audience groups.
>Devilman, Eva, JoJo were released in a shounen magazine too.
I have never read any of these three. If your point is that they transitioned to seinen magazines, it's most likely because older teenagers weren't interested in it or these shows developed into less kid-friendly shows.

Because I am not interested in the manga's premise.

You can keep finding exceptions, but I listed typical shonen traits (like being released on a shonen magazine for an adolescent audience) and the fact that they use furigana for almost all kanji.
Not to mention that the main protagonist is a literal child superhero going on dangerous adventures with magical abilities while having comic relief expressions.

One Piece come before and after
One Piece is forever

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and yet its still doing better than huntardxhuntard

desuarchive.org/a/search/text/huntard/

yikes

>never read Vinland Saga, Devilman, Eva and JoJo

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High IQ

Low IQ

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Avatar has sold 2 billion but no one gives a shit about it. Same thing will happen to One Piece. The readers are already losing interest and it can't even sell 2M anymore.

>this thread again

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Thank you, i for surely will

Hxh has the best writing but it's barely a Shonen, you watch it for the mental games Ala Death note and the drama. It has like 3 or 4 memorable fights.

One Piece has the best adventures and comedy, even the best fights when they had to go against the entire enemy team at the end of the arc (the skypie priests, alabasta, cp9) BUT that doesn't happen anymore. After the timeskip those moments don't exist and half the story being shit is a point against it.
If you expected a more serious story after the timeskip you'll be disappointed as fighting the elite assassins from the government, God himself and saving a country from getting nuked was more mature and grounded than the fantasy shit happening now.

Which leaves Naruto as the winner, as much as I shat on it weekly, it always delivered. It's a battle Shonen, and I'll tell you it has fights, many of them and they're all good. Especially Shippuden, it's full of them with the war and every Akatsuki gets its nice moment. The characters are all charismatic, the powers varied, nice cqc, the plot makes you theorize a lot, good lore... Most of the critics against Naruto aren't really fundamental to being good. It has plot holes like everything Madara did, annoying moments like Sakura not wanting to kill Sasuke, Sasukes madness, Obito... But those are just personal opinions and the story moved forward nicely with fights and drama. Sure Pain revived everyone but you still enjoyed the arc and the next one, so what's the problem with it?

yeah One Piece is enormously popular for over 20 years but I'm sure in the next month everyone just forgets about it

>Low IQ
LOL you do realize the lower you go, the closer you are to zero. And when you go beyond zero, you go through the negatives, and these negative numbers only go up.
So if I have a low IQ it could mean I have an IQ of -150 and -150 is contains a higher number than 120 (which is presumably the IQ you've got from an online test)

Can't wait to dive back in this fascinating mess, Togashi needs to hurry up already!

it's Yaoi

>enormously popular

>One Piece - 5,969,851 ---> 3,110,049
>Haikyu!! - 3,086,097 ---> 2,523,071
>My Hero Academia - 2,097,088 ---> 2,516,768
>Black Clover - 790,032 ---> 2,033,277

Biggest drop of all shounen Jump manga. Almost 3M drop, while stuff like BC and MHA are selling more. People are getting tired of OP and once the editors force Oda to end it, everyone will forget about OP like they forgot about Avatar.

>mfw

It really is always a good day to be a Hunterchad, isnt it?

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>watching One Piece for fights
yikes

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imagine being this retarded

If your IQ is lower than 50-40, you're basically brain dead.

You forgot
>Author is a based pedo

Ah I see, it's another episode of shonenbabies arguing about which series is the "best", meanwhile I can enjoy every single one of them for their uniqueness and what they're individually best at.

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>Devilman, Eva, JoJo were released in a shounen magazine too.
And they are shonen. Eva did move to a seinen magazine later on, making it seinen.

>Dorehodoro was released in a seinen magazine but then it moved to a shounen magazine.
And it was seinen and then it was shonen. Dai Dark is in that same shonen magazine and is shonen. The magazine determines the target demographic.

that's why you are wrong, you think that sales mean something when One Piece has deep roots in a Japan pop culture, do you imagine people in the west suddenly forgetting about Batman?

This. Toriko's author raped a child and Oda bailed him out of jail, if I remember correctly. I know it sounds like a joke, but this actually happened. Google it.

OP resolves almost every single arc with an all out fight, mostly 1n1. If it wasn't about fights the author wouldn't use them to resolve every conflict. dumb opfag

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HXHbabies getting their dicks hard over their genre

If series can move freely from shounen to seinen without changing much of their content, then your magazine argument is really weak. Do you understand this? The magazine has nothing to do with it. Plus, Togashi owns the rights for HxH, so he's not bound to any Jump restriction like the other authors.

In its 20 years of run, OP has not influenced one single manga. That's how irrelevant it is.

watching One Piece for fights is like watching Naruto for romance or HxH for beautifully drawn panels

Fairy Tail and Toriko exist retard

Toriko retard.

>like they forgot about Avatar.
I have never met a person IRL who doesn't think that ATLA isn't a masterpiece.

Not exactly true.
A person with -150 IQ is more intelligent because part of the number is bigger. You shouldn't be at 50 IQ for too long.
I like to think of it as thawing a human, if you thaw him too slowly, he will die. If you can thaw a human faster than his body can destroy itself, then it's good to go.
Same with IQ, if you lower your IQ too slowly, you will end up braindead. Luckily, I was reading HxH so I am fine now.

>Hxh has the best writing but it's barely a Shonen, you watch it for the mental games Ala Death note and the drama. It has like 3 or 4 memorable fights.
I read it for the fights and character interaction, and have no idea how mental games makes something Seinen. For a good example, see The Promised Neverland, which is almost exclusively about mindgames, but is clearly intended for (and presented to) shonen readers.

Neither has HxH; so what's your argument?

Everyone watches WanPiss for fights. The Marineford arc was the peak of OP and it sold 2 or 3 times more than all the other arcs.

One Piece use to have good to great fights like Luffy vs Lucci. Not anymore ODA is a senile old man past his prime. One Piece is horse shit, Oda should just end the manga or spoil the ending already if there even is one. Someone fake AIDS and ask for the ending.

I did say it has the best adventures and comedy but even those take a hit for me after the timeskip.
But yeah as a kid I started watching OP because of that blond guy in a suit kicking ass, I don't regret anything

>If series can move freely from shounen to seinen without changing much of their content, then your magazine argument is really weak
Isn't this what your argument is? That HXH isn't shonen because of its oh so adult content? I'm saying content doesn't matter and that if a series is in a magazine aimed at a specific demographic then by proxy the series is aimed at that demographic.

>no rebuttal

I expected a little more effort but I suppose this is expected from a fan of Wan Piss

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Naruto exists

Provide quote from the athor of Fairy Tail that said he was influenced or inspired by Oda.
Also Toriko was inspired by JoJo and HnK

>No manga has ever succeeded at doing what One Piece has done to Shounen
>HXH gets beaten and outsold by Naruto which copied most of its main plot points

HxHchads in shambles

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>any battle shonen is watched for the fights and action
ftfy, no exceptions

Even heard of Boku No Hero Academia? apparently, his author was a huge Oda fan since he was a kid
Not to mention the countless references in other works/games/movies etc, no other Manga had this huge cultural impact in Japan as One Piece

Its because most japanese and american youth are brain dead and are too busy fapping to their anime figurines and posting it online.

hunter and haikyuu are the best and well-made

>Fujimaki (author of Kuroko no Basket): After seeing the expressions of the characters that Togashi-sensei has drawn, the area that surprises me the most is the corner of the mouth. Kurapika for example would always have this kind of expression, where the corner of his mouth is always slanted upwards or downwards, but because the shift is very slight, it looks like he is smiling, but also expressionless at the same time.

>Ishida: I’ve had this storyboard in my head constantly, but internally the bar kept getting higher… Because I was going to show it to Togashi-sensei, whom I greatly respect, I didn’t want to show him anything poorly done, and I wanted to construct my own worldview within “Hunter x Hunter”
>Ishida: That’s right. When I was in junior high school, the first manga I copied was of Hisoka. It was the scene where Hisoka is letting down his hair after a bath, after he has a battle in Heaven’s Arena. It was so cool I just had to draw it

>Kishimoto: Before I became a professional mangaka, I was already a big fan of Togashi-sensei, I was able to greet him at the Jump Festa
>Kishimoto: Yes. Well, during that time period I was having difficulty creating my manga. I thought I'd ask you for some tips sensei, the first time we met I was a little nervous but luckily Sensei was very nice to me which helped me get over my nervousness and allowed me ask a lot of questions. After diner, he showed me his workshop, the cycle of creating a manga, how to have a good work atmosphere and many other things. Back when I've started the serialization of Naruto, my inspiration for these was Hunter x Hunter, even to this day it still has a special place for me and I often re-read it.

Pic related, other manga inspired by Togashi

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>rebuttal
of what retard? It's true that there's a 1v1 fight at the end of most (around 70%) arcs, still it's reading One Piece for fights is not worth it since Oda isn't focusing on it.

that's pretty based, i must admit

But I proved to you that more than 50% of Jump's demographic is over 25

>It's true that there's a 1v1 fight at the end of most (around 70%) arcs
>Oda isn't focusing on it

I laughed.

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>raped
Making love is not always rape, baka!

>literally a Marineford baby
I thought they exist only in memes

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>Togashi is Kishimoto's sensei
PRETTY WHOLESOME

Have you read MHA? Can you honestly said it resambles even remotely OP? Its clearly inspired by Naruto and capeshit. Horikoshi is praising OP because he wants publicity from Oda.

Based

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>no rebuttal
as expected, stay with your battle shounens

And lots of 20+ year old men watch MLP (or for a Japanese example, lots of 20+ year old men watch PreCure) but that doesn't make those series targeted at 20+ year old men. Shonen Jump has and always will be aimed at 12-16 year olds. It doesn't matter who's reading it unless they go and rebrand themselves. Which they won't because Shueisha already has some seinen magazines.

We can't stop winning, bros.

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Not that user but I don't like that myth about fights not being a big part of one piece. It starts with Luffy beating a giant sea monster in one punch and travels the east blue solving problems with his fists recruiting nakamas to beat up more baddies. It's just like the dragon ball manga with Kid Goku being an op kid that trashes most enemies while everyone makes gag faces and he gets an occasional hard battle every once in a while, but no one would argue Dragon ball isn't for fightfags

Gintama

You're aware that MLP is made by adults for other perverts? They sexualized those ponies because they know who their target audience is.
Togashi is aware that his target audience is high IQ adults, so he is making the Succession War arc, something that clearly belongs in a seinen. I mean just pretend you didn't know anything about HxH and you started reading it from chapter 340, would you really think you're reading a shounen? I know I wouldnt.

I'm not saying that there's no action in One Piece but the series isn't definitely focusing on the fights.
Post time skip we basically have two full-fledged fights(Luffy vs Doflamingo and Luffy vs Katakuri) and they both take like 10% time of their respective arcs at most.

Based. Reminder, Ishida drew an entire one-shot with 60+ pages of HxH. You won't see a big mangaka doing this for Wan Piss because it has no real influence.

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Its the Hunterchad way. Everyday is a win day.

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>You're aware that MLP is made by adults for other perverts? They sexualized those ponies because they know who their target audience is.
not him, but as a horsefucker I take offense to this ignorant, pulled-out-of-my-ass statement.
Please immediately stop posting, not just on Yea Forums, on every board, and take a timeout for that incredibly dumb reply.

>would you really think you're reading a shounen?
Yes because I'd be aware that it was being serialized in Shonen Jump. And I read plenty of seinen and know that being violent and edgy isn't a hallmark of a seinen manga.

>Full metal alchemist.
Great overall, but didn't like the showdown against 'Father' & his squad at all though. It was especially terrible at the climax.

>gets a ripped off version of itself that is infinitely more popular; Naruto
>ripped off Dragon Ball to only get a fraction of its popularity
>ripped off its beta version only to still be less popular than it; Yu Yu Hakusho

HXH chads desperate for attention by shitty mangakas like Ishida

ONE and Murata released a One shot with Leorio as protagonist. They are also Togashi fanboys. Specially Murata, he's a big fan of HxH and takes a lot of inspiration from it.

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>HxH and you started reading it from chapter 340, would you really think you're reading a shounen?
yeah, it's focusing on fights between characters with supernatural powers and martial arts

Kurupika on the right

Nothing about the current arc is violent and edgy. Are you even reading HxH?

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>it's focusing on fights between characters

>Nothing about the current arc is violent and edgy
>yeah let's just kill a newborn baby for a lulz

based

Don't bother, these people think being published in a certain magazine makes you for that demographic with no doubts.

So can I just take Berserk or Vagabond and publish them in the Shonen jump of a kodomo magazine and you fags would say it's right? There's such thing as making mistakes and hxh is no doubt more appropriate on an adult magazine. Jojo too started getting too mature for Shonen jump and the author realized it, so he went for a Seinen tag. Jojo was always that mature, just like HxH is, but Togashi doesn't feel like leaving the SJ I mean he barely even feels like drawing chapters.

>mountain of skulls
>not edgy

>So can I just take Berserk or Vagabond and publish them in the Shonen jump of a kodomo magazine and you fags would say it's right?
Yes. If that actually happened I would consider them shonen.

>yeah let's just kill a newborn baby for a lulz
When did this happen?

KEK even BLACK COVER Is better than it.

/thread

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>>yeah let's just kill a newborn baby for a lulz
Are we talking about HxH or another, well-known, brutally realistic Seinen anime called Yu-Gi-Oh?

>Wan Piss
>has no real influence
>real influence
Beating the shit out of the teens should be done on regular basis with diligence, as it's a God's work.

You realize how flimsy your definition are if just a change of magazine will change your idea of what is shounen and seinen?
You can take a kodomo story and move it to a seinen magazine and keep the story very childish, yet you'd consider it a seinen because its being released in a seinen magazine? That's very stupid.

The only possible answer: Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

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In terms of battle shounen only.

GOAT tier:
Kinnikuman
Fist of the North Star

Top tier:
Sakigake Otokojuku
Ushio and Tora
Rokudenashi Blues
Crows
Kongou Banchou
Karakuri Circus
Saint Seiya

High Tier:
Dragonball
Rurouni Kenshin
Zatch Bell
JJBA
Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo

Middle tier:
Beelzebub
Hareluya II Boy
HxH
FullMetal Alchemist
Clover

Low tier:
Naruto
One Piece
Bleach

Of historical significance but no scans tier:
Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daishou
Ring ni Kakero

Not battle shounen but still needs to be mentioned because it's better than nearly everything else here tier:
Cobra

Attached: X4.png (870x1400, 1.23M)

HXH in its beginning was definitely shounen. It was no more different than Yu Yu Hakusho in its initial chapters.

Alot of older Shounen had darker violent tones to it like Rurouni Kenshin but it's clear that was Shounen.

Literally nothing made HXH anything more than Shounen compared to any other Shounen that came out during its time.

Literally only HXHbabies who probably only watched HXH recently think its Seinen because Shounen has become more child friendly through shows like MHA and Boruto.

Even then, it's not like MHA doesn't do violent dark shit. Heck, the latest arc is full of it.

Attached: "seinen".png (1720x1540, 2.01M)

How come all the titles in GOAT and Top tier are all irrelevant and forgotten and nobody talks about them?

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The definitions are flimsy. That's why I think people are retarded for putting so much stock in them. There are tons of manga in seinen magazines that are family friendly or at least less offensive than some stuff in shonen magazines. I've read enough that I understand that the terms are meaningless for determining what kind of content a manga will have. But magazines do have target demographics and every manga in a specific magazine is, by being in that magazine, aimed at that demographic.

Can someone explain how the fuck he managed to figure out that kurapika has five abilities? there was never anything shown that the guy could have deduced that from.
and yeah, i unironically started speed reading a little bit before this part.

but people act like there isn't dark shit and deep themes aren't in Shounen at all. Only literal baby's first Shounenfags who think their Shounen is deeper than anything else that can be compared to it.

Cue HXHfags and MHAfags

HAHAHAHA BnHA is not even on your list. It will be irrelevant in a few years. Sad life for Horifags.

I agree with the first part of your post and that's basically my whole argument. But then you go and contradict yourself based on a rule that you made up that
> magazines do have target demographics and every manga in a specific magazine is, by being in that magazine, aimed at that demographic.
Which is total bullshit, specially nowadays. Maybe this was relevant in the 70s or early 80s. But go take a look at the titles released in Jump in the 80s. They had so much gore and sex you'd think they were seinen.
You also don't know what the target demographic for a series is, you don't have that data for most series. We do for OP and the average reader is between 20 and 40.
Why is OP in a shounen magazine if the target demographic are adults?

Kinnikuman is still running and still the best battle shounen ever made, somehow.

Based

>God Tier
One Piece, Slam Dunk, HunterxHunter
>High Tier
Gantz, Bleach, Shaman King, Jojo, OPM
>Mid Tier
Naruto, BC, DB, KnB, Belzebub
>Low Tier
FT, MHA

Cartoon violence is not actual gore. Every battle shonen series has that, even Wan Piss. MHA is for kids.

Attached: HxH vs shonenshit.jpg (3288x2021, 1.73M)

>one piece
>god
>gantz
>of any positive quality
die faggot

What third rate magazine is publishing it?

>They had so much gore and sex you'd think they were seinen.
Only if I were clueless like you and thought that violence and sex = seinen, which I don't because I actually read seinen.

>You also don't know what the target demographic for a series is, you don't have that data for most series. We do for OP and the average reader is between 20 and 40.
You're confusing target demographic with reading demographic. Every single person that reads OP could be over 30 and that wouldn't change its target demographic.

>Why is OP in a shounen magazine if the target demographic are adults?
See above. Adults reading it doesn't mean it's targeted to adults. Just like my previous examples of MLP and PreCure.

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this page is like a parody of hxh except Togashi wrote it unironically

Shonen is garbage. But is a good list. MHA doesn't even deserve to get acknowledged, it combines that mindnumbing cape shit Yea Forums likes to shit on with the faggotry of waifu and hentai bait along with story telling and tropes more generic than even Fairy Tail. Anyone who thinks it deserves to be even considered as best should immediately stop wasting oxygen.

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That isn't even close to the first HxH page without drawings, newfag.

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than how would you know HXH would be targeted toward adults when it's literally no different than OP at that view point.

>Why is HXH in a shounen magazine if the target demographic are adults?
See above. Adults reading it doesn't mean it's targeted to adults. Just like my previous examples of MLP and PreCure.

Besides that, HXH's core elements originally came from shows like DBZ and Yu Yu Hakusho that were also Shounen.

violence and sex = seinen. That used to be the rule in the 70s and 80s. If your manga had too much violence and sex, it wasn't allowed to be published in a magazine for young boys. That's how it used to work. Not anymore, obviously.

Target demographic with reading demographic are the same thing when we talk about 20 years old series. The target demographic for HxH is adults, because Togashi knows all his core fandom has been following HxH since 1998. The reading demographic for HxH are also adults, because kids aren't going to pick up HxH and Togashi isn't going to change the plot or themes to suit the few new readers who might pick it up.

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>violence and sex = seinen
dumbest post in a whole thread

That's how it used to be in the 70s and early 80s. The editors had rule that they weren't allowed to publish stories with too much violence and sex in their shounen magazines.

>HXHtards arguing over how their demographic gender should be identified
dumbest posters in the whole thread

What’s on the lower right?

No fucking idea but the tanks are still coming out as Jump Comics, so one of the Shueisha ones.

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>That used to be the rule in the 70s and 80s
Your own examples (assuming you're the person I replied to) prove you wrong since HnK and Devilman (and Jojo) were in Shonen Jump. If HXH was targeted towards adults it would be put into a seinen magazine. Since it's still in a shonen magazine it's aimed at the shonen demographic regardless of who's reading it.

I don't even know what you're trying to say. I'm saying HXH is shonen.

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Gore =/= for adult audiences only
Japanese adolescents are exposed to much more fucked up stuff than Westerners and especially mutts.
The fact that this is released on a shonen magazine, the frequent use of furigana, and the theme of there being child heroes going on adventures doing edgy things through magic actually heavily indicate HxH is a shonen. There is nothing wrong with that, older teens (16, 17) are also in the shonen demographic, it's just that you shouldn't be twisting it.

Good post

HnK, Devilman and JoJo were all published in the late 80s. Not early 80s, like I was saying.
Togashi isn't moving to a seinen magazine for different reasons:
First of all, he's been with Jump since the 80s. Then he has the best contract in the industry and if he left he'd need to make a new contract, which would be really stupid. He's also a senior editor in Jump and they let him over-see other young mangaka. But the most important reason why he doesn't leave is because Jump leaves him complete creative control over HxH so it doesn't matter to him if he publishes in a seinen or shounen magazine. He can do whatever he wants.

Bakuman

Devilman was published in 1972-1973 you idiot. At least try to cherrypick shit you know basic info about.

>First of all, he's been with Jump since the 80s. Then he has the best contract in the industry and if he left he'd need to make a new contract, which would be really stupid. He's also a senior editor in Jump and they let him over-see other young mangaka. But the most important reason why he doesn't leave is because Jump leaves him complete creative control over HxH so it doesn't matter to him if he publishes in a seinen or shounen magazine. He can do whatever he wants.
So what I'm getting from this is he stays in a children's magazine because of his kick-ass contract. That has nothing to do with whether HXH is shonen or seinen.

>shonen magazine, the frequent use of furigana
Debunked several times. See
>and the theme of there being child heroes
Name a single "child hero" in the last several arcs of HxH.

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HxH promotes drugs. This would never be allowed in a shounen.

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You posting a single page of non-pronunciation furigana doesn't discount that thousands of other pages use it strictly so children know how things are pronounced.

Name any other shonen that has fights as batshit crazy and on the scale of Toriko. Their planet is the size of Jupiter for reference.

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>children's magazine
More than 50% of Jump readers are over 25

>1983 is the late 80s

The state of the HxH fan's retardation.

Comic Alive and Grand Jump are seinen magazine that make full use of furigana.

>Not to mention that the main protagonist is a literal child superhero going on dangerous adventures with magical abilities while having comic relief expressions.

Wrong, Gon is just a kid trying to meet his father. The risk or 'dangerous adventurers' associated with his endeavors is clearly an allusion to our own lives where usually and under normal circumstances have to work towards want we want in life which is not without difficulty unless you're literally Deku or Luffy, both who are conveniently given their power. Hell, Gon's 'magical abilities' aren't even very impressive as he often gets his ass kicked while encountering other people more experienced and proficient.

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Again, doesn't change the demographic that the magazine is aimed at.

>no attempt at rebuttal
>no mention of any "child heroes" in HxH

Concession accepted.

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Proof that Jump is aimed at teenagers?

>Demon King

I'm gettin' hungry, guys!

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Not scale wise but in terms of pure hot blooded manly fights, nothing can even come close to Otokojuku.

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I don't know why they do that but that doesn't mean that pronunciation furigana isn't much, much less common in seinen manga. Can you find a shonen magazine that doesn't use full pronunciation furigana? I'm seriously asking because it would be interesting if there was one.

It has shonen in its magazine name.

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this is just tiring so I'll make it quick

read the replychain

i literally typed >Japanese adolescents are exposed to much more fucked up stuff than Westerners and especially mutts.
>This would never be allowed in a shounen.
yet it is allowed on weekly shonen jump, accessible to minors

nitpicks my wording just to sound like a smartass

>see ya
we never got to see more of Toriko's white demon, fuck I wanted that space arc.

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Seinen magazines have "Young" in the name, so they are for young people?

All the shounen I've read use Furigana. Some seinen like Vinland Saga and Vagabond use Furigana sometimes too. That is irrelevant, though, since there are seinen magazines that publish manga with full furigana.

Based and nenpilled.

Cringe

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Japanese is not English. By Young they don't mean 12 year olds. It's more like young adult (16+). I'm sure you consider Berserk seinen and it's in the magazine Young Animal.

I wonder if Toriko will end up eating him and Blue like he did Red? Maybe if he goes to their home universes and eats the main course there?

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>yet it is allowed on weekly shonen jump, accessible to minors
Only HxH does that. You won't find any running shounen that promotes drugs. Why is HxH allowed to do that?

I don't consider Berserk a seinen because the magazine argument is retarded. Also Viz releases HxH under a 16+ rating, just like a seinen.

>this is just tiring
Yeah, getting utterly and irrefutably BTFO must be tiring. I will be merciful and accept your concession. Now get some rest after losing this battle, because you need it.

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It's okay, he's having a nice meal with the others.

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>That is irrelevant, though, since there are seinen magazines that publish manga with full furigana.
Do you know why they do that? Because I don't. But a few seinen manga using full furigana doesn't discount that having full furigana is a pretty identifiable difference in general. If you don't put stock in the target demographic of the magazine then I'd say just draw the line at if something uses full furigana or not. So those seinen manga that do are instead shonen.

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What an American company does has nothing to do with anything. Yu Yu Hakusho and currently a lot of other shonen air at 1AM in the US on TV because they're considered "adult". The US has different standards than Japan does for age ratings. Even the most childish shonen series would have to be edited for content if aired earlier in the day.

Isn't the Blue Universe completely empty because Neo ate everything there? Though Toriko travelling through the different universes for the ultimate full course sounds so fucking good. I don't think he'll ever be able to eat White though, even having White out for a couple seconds could kill him.

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>draw the line where it suits my argument

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Neo vomitted out all the ingredients from that universe and formed its own galaxy, so maybe he just has to go there.

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Because the other manga don't have the balls, or reason to promote drug usage? How do you know that only HxH is allowed to do that?
If I wanted to be a mangaka, none of my first 100 priorities would be to draw at least 1 page where I want to shoehorn in my opinion on legalizing drugs, unless it is a manga all about drugs.

>losing an argument
not the smartest on the battlefield, yet I tip my hat to you, good ser, for your foolish effort was still an effort.

Also I just bought a translated volume of something that is in a seinen magazine and it's rated 10+.

>draw the line with a coherent argument that is easily visible rather than arbitrary content arguments that make no sense because shonen and seinen aren't monolithic in objectionable content

For shonen, it would be Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood but not by much.

Also, I would say Outlaw Star but that is seinen for some reason.

Bleach

Kek.
How will hunterbabies ever recover?

Furigana is used when a kanji uses an uncommon pronunciation, or when it is an uncommon kanji. Togashi is known for using uncommon and really archaic kanji, so that explains the use of furigana.
>Do you know why they do that
Comic Alive is a media-mix magazine which runs a lot of light novel comicalizations (isekai shit), perhaps thats why they use full furigana.

This user knows what's up.

Neo probably made an entire new universe with all the shit he vomited out, either that or the Red Universe is really crowded now; or it returned to the blue universe.

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Shonen is not a genre. If you define shonen generally as "anime/ manga marketed towards young males", then yes, it is a shonen. And before people say "it's too dark and gory to be a shonen", just consider that Death Note was publicised in Shonen Jump, which is many people's benchmark for what a shonen anime is. Add to all that the battles, tournament arc, young protagonist with spiky hair etc- it is a pretty typical shonen yes, and I consider it that.

If you are one of the utter retards that thinks only manga and anime from Jump can be shonen, obviously it is not. But can an anime be both shonen and seinen at the same time? I would say so. I think HxH could have appeal for both teens and young adults, so why say it can only be one of the two? This is really a pointless debate, but I want to see you debunking pic related.

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>Furigana is used when a kanji uses an uncommon pronunciation, or when it is an uncommon kanji. Togashi is known for using uncommon and really archaic kanji, so that explains the use of furigana.
HXH uses it for all kanji though. Yes, seinen manga use furigana for uncommon pronunciations or names but HXH uses it 99% of the time for pronunciation, even over kanji that a casual non-Japanese watcher of anime would probably know.

>Because the other manga don't have the balls
And they don't have the balls because they are subject to Jump policy, while Togashi owns HxH so he doesn't have to follow shounen rules. That makes HxH a seinen.

Do you admit defeat?

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b-but you need a high iq...

>Young Animal.
That's DC comic shit tho

I hate you faggots
I really do

>HXH uses it 99% of the time for pronunciation
Not really

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Again... someone already said that would mean that Dragon Ball is for people older than 18 as well... you really aren't making yourself clearer.

>I want to see you debunking pic related.
Literally impossible. In all the months I've seen this pic used, no one has ever been able to debunk it.

What is the point here? Every kanji on that page has furigana over it. Even the one for "who", which is one of the most common kanji in the language.

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Hunterbros btfo everyone once again using facts and logic
Feels good

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Beastars, but everyone avoids it because they think it's just furry shit
It's a good series, but unfortunately it's about to become plagued with actual furries who will ruin it.

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I thought my point was pretty clear.
I don't think the magazine matters to define if a series is shounen or seinen.
What matters are the themes, the story telling, the graphic violence, the prophanities etc.
We can't say DB is shounen or seinen just based on the magazine. We have to read and analyze it, only then we can say if its a shounen, which it clearly is.

unironically this. I urge anyone who likes shonen, to read beastars.

I thought it was just a Zootopia sort of slice of life manga. It has actual fights?

Yeah. It actually has a lot of fights. The manga gets really dark pretty quickly actually.

The point is that Togashi's writing style is way more comlicated because it has both Kanji, Katakana and Furigana.
Here is a page from Vinland Saga with Furigana.

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>Shonen is not a genre.
I never really implied that.

>But can an anime be both shonen and seinen at the same time?
Complicated, but yeah, not impossible.
Though it would most likely be classified as an entity appealing to the younger audience, rather than the older one (so shonen, instead of seinen), seeing as the rating system would beat that equilibrium.
Just like how many kids shows have also pandered towards older audiences, "manchildren", it doesn't make them not-kids shows just because older people can enjoy it.
>I think HxH could have appeal for both teens and young adults
Please define young adults. Most young adults are appealed by stuff they like about teenagers because they quintessentially still are older teenagers. This is very common.
I know people who enjoy Naruto, One Piece, etc. by the age of 35. This is less common, but it still happens.
>For older teens = Seinen
What is there to debunk? It makes a factual mistake, as shonen covers the ages 12 to 18.

@187652023
its just bait at this point isnt it

yiff in hell furfags

Not really, you keep having two points it seems, and you switch back and forth. You say age then you say themes. Blood and cursing is allowed in childrens manga believe it or not. Toriko is filled with severing limbs and alcohol consumption. Doesn't make it seinen. It seems you don't actually know why people even use the terms shounen, seinen, and shoujo. Demographics aren't the same as a rating. Adults can enjoy a shounen, just as well as a kid can, even for different reasons.

Why are you so keen to say that HxH is a shounen despite all the facts that prove you wrong? I mean just read the fucking manga and tell me its a shounen, you'll find out why everyone thinks HxH is a seinen.

>The point is that Togashi's writing style is way more comlicated because it has both Kanji, Katakana and Furigana.
Literally every shonen series has this. Kanji and hiragana are for Japanese words and stuff like verb and adjective endings, katakana is for non-Japanese words, and furigana is so the 12 year old readerbase knows how to pronounce the kanji. Only one kanji on that page has pronunciation furigana. The ones on the bottom are to modify pronunciation or to do what you're saying Togashi does in changing words through furigana, which isn't an uncommon thing to do.

Furigana can be (and has been) used to do things like have two words be "said" at the same time, and that one example page HXHdrones keep posting from HXH does do that. But that's very rare in HXH and the vast majority of HXH's furigana is for pronunciation purposes.

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Don't bring this blessed manga to such an cursed thread, I just hope that it doesn't attract shitposters to the threads
But you are right it is the best shonen of this generation

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The violence in Toriko is cartoonish, nobody is going to take it seriously. It's like those Will-e coyote cartoons.
In HxH, the violence is disturbing, gritty and psychological, like in pic related. This is something you'd only find in a seinen. Its a little 13 year old girl getting strangled to death and raped by an old guy.

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>I think shounen means babby manga so my favorite hxh must be seinen cause I'm not a babby
That's how you all sound

the facts... what facts? YIKES! oh sweet summer child...I just want to appreciate justin bieber's and ariana grande's friendship real quick. you'll get my answer in about 3 hours, give or take 2 years.

>Toriko is filled with severing limbs and alcohol consumption
Wow, hardcore.

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This

>mob psycho 100: The only shonen manga I can think of that didn’t overstay it’s welcome and the author was never reaching for ideas.

??? Arc > Ed vs father arc

HxH is not the only soft-seinen. There's also Devilman, Ashita no Joe, Level E, etc.

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I'm literally responding to the dude that said hxh having blood makes it a seinen. Use your reading comprehension. Toriko isn't anything insane I was using another shounen as an example.

This.
/thread

Why are people jelious of HxH?

ONE is not

mob psycho > HxH / gay x gay

The fact that you think people telling you a series' demographic means they're "jealous", shows how stupid the h x h fanbase really is.

>OP baits HxHfags
>they take the bait
Every fucking time

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Based.

Cringe.

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HxH has a lot of furigana because Togashi uses very complicated and double-meaning words. Mangastream translators used to complain about this. You'll find an example in the last volume when Illumi says that Hisoka and him signed a prenup. Or in the Meruem and Netero fight you can see both "悪意/malice" and "進化/evolution" on it. A beautiful double meaning from Togashi in tandem with themes presented by the CA arc.

bruh

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Yes.
Do eet for Jirou, he is best boi

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>HxH has a lot of yaoi because toGAYshi uses very complicated and double-meaning anal sex words. Mangastream translators used to complain about this. You'll find an example in the last volume when Illumi says that Hisoka rapes Gon. Or in the Meruem and killua sex fight you can see both "悪意/malice" and "進化/evolution" on it. A beautiful double penetration meaning from toGAYshi in condom with homo sexy themes presented by the CA yaoi arc.

no
HxH has furigana for almost every kanji.
dunno what crap youve been smoking

I fucking like hunter x hunter you samefag, you can't understand the difference between seinen and shounen. Just cause I know it's a shounen doesn't mean I dislike it or I'm insulting it.

god these huntards are so thirsty to stay relevant they convince themselves with shitty copypastas and spend hours trying to make asspullxasspull seem likes its not just an anime for beginners

He knocked the planet for our sins and left behind his only begotten grandson.

THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT AHHAHAH FUCKING HUNTERFAGS

You're wrong. There are countless of examples of Togashi Using advanced Furi to play with words. You constantly see this happening in HxH. Like when Illumi said in Chapter 377:
Prenup in kanji (婚前契約) with the English pronunciation of engagement ring on top if it in katakana (エンゲージメントリング)

And also:
Killua also uses:
妹 (younger sister)

Also consifer the 322 Chapter title: 兄妹きょうだい - Siblings
The spelling used in 322 is 兄妹きょうだい (kyōdai - pronounced identically to the word for “siblings”). Chapter 322’s 兄妹 consists of two kanji - 「兄」(older brother) and 「妹」 ( younger sister). This is not an approved spelling of the word.

Togashi literally did a play on words to get the point across that Alluka is a girl. Considering that the Zoldycks all ignore this besides killua, it can be inferred that Alluka was born biologically male but prefers female pronouns.

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Pretty good. I disagree with a couple but at least you seem to actually know what you're talking about.

Suffixing your shitty argument with "durr but im actually a fan durr" doesn't make it any less shitty. You got rebuked and now you're coping.

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You're not a real fan if you can't recognize that HxH is very far from the concept of shounen. Try reading the manga, animeonlyfag.

show me 5 kanji in raws that are not absurdly easy and have no furigana
you cant because youre full of shit

??? I got rebuked? All I've said is Hunter x Hunter is a shounen.

Tell me the deep reason why Togashi uses pronunciation furigana over 何, 誰, 私, etc.

>HxH is a shounen

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I have read the manga holy shit its just bad trolling at this point

So gaijins like us can learn Japanese while reading a masterpiece like HxH.

We are just going in circles, we already did this part.

You're not a real fan. Stop posting and get the fuck back to MHA or OP threads. No real fan would ever say something disprespectful like calling HxH a shounen.

He's just a retard. Best ignore him.

You will give up and conceded that HxH is not a shounen.

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Even though most of these are superficial references, I always enjoy seeing them.

this is all hxh has and they cling to it like their first girlfriend, stop being a pretentious fag you dont give a fuck about any of that shit youre just trying to keep a dead anime relevant

>anal dildo in a shounen

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huntards just mad the only new content they get is yaoi

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...

>yaoi is shonen

Reminder that its only 2 exremely angry retards who keep forcing their concept that HxH is a shounen despite the overwhelming evidence on the contrary.

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Based Hunterchad.

Reminder that it's just one delusional shizo who keeps replying to himself, pretending to be pro-shonen and contra-shonen in an effortless attempt to keep the thread alive.

Reminder that there are 95 IPs here and most posts saying that HxH is a seinen have only a few seconds of difference between each other yet. YET! one of those 2 troglodytes wants to push his "hxh shounen" agenda so hard that he wants you to believe someone has set up VPNs, different browsers, different devices, multiple phones, Yea Forums Passes etc. all of this multitasking happening at the speed of light.
Because he can not accept that his opinion is in the minority and the VAST majority of people KNOWS that HxH is in fact a seinen.

Vandread is the best shounen of all time.

>burger publishing

Based

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>projecting this hard

Viz is owned by Shueisha.

>burger

>Even though most of these are superficial references

Read slower, shonenfag.

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Who are those guys on the center left and center bottom?

I am the pro-seinen part of the shonen-seinen shizo... I am finally hatching out... I have almost conquered the faggotry- OH NOOO

Hunter X Hunter is and has always been a seinen anime. Reminder that if you don't think it is seinen, you never even read the manga.

This man is not me. I have always said that HxH is shonen. I have no idea what he thinks he's doing

>ripping off religion
What a hack

>Phagogenesis = Saturn Devouring His Son = Referenced in Chapter 382
>Darwinism = Chimera Ant Arc
>Oppenheimer = Rose Bomb
>Alien = Black Whale arc
>High IQ = Hunterchads
>Grave of the Fireflies = Colt and Reina
>Kierkegaard and existentialism = Meruem's Character Arc
>Apocalypse Now = War drama = Chimera Ant

etc

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Chuuni shit.

Redditors can't meme. Cringe as fuck.

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Stupid redditor.

post the implied rape from his childhood

Where is the rape? Its just a guy grabbing someone by the neck.

Fpbp.

>shounen is genre

I win again.

It is. You can search anime or manga by shounen and seinen tags in anime forums or websites

Hunter is GREAT, but at certain times is kinda boring; Jojo is just Jojo, very good; One Piece is bad at character evolution and the arcs are kinda repetitive; FMA is... i'm actually watching it right now, first time after droping it like 4 times; another good battle shounen? i don't know

Genres group similar series. There are no unifying things in shonen or seinen. K-ON, Berserk, and Dungeon Meshi are nothing alike but are all seinen.

>another good battle shounen
Is mob psycho 100/10

Complete story too

How hard is this to understand you esl fag?

you do realize 100/10 is 10, right? -.-

Yes ^_^

Now lewd mob!

Brohoof! /)

aku no hana

i actually agree, that'd be my top 5 so far

Wikipedia says to me HxH is shonen not seinen

Attached: HxH is shonen.jpg (1026x1312, 180K)

Wikipedia can be edited by everyone

>year of our lord 2020 - 1
>there are people that still don't understand shonen/shoujo/seinen/josei are target demographics
Kill yourselves, ironic weebs.

>Shonen
>nen
Hunterchads win again

Kek.took me moment to realise it. kek.

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>samefag accuses everyone in the thread of samefaggotry
You need to step up your game.

Naruto is an anime that was specifictly made for battles just looked at it and compare it to any of the others.If youre talking of qualitu battles Naruto is the one.

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>Top tier:
>Sakigake Otokojuku
based and principal of otokojoku edajima heihachi-aru pilled

Wow Sugar from bnha is a blatant rip off of this

Shit taste:Dragon Ball
Bad taste: Naruto, BNHA, Bleach
Good taste:HxH
God taste:JoJo, Death Note

>Shit taste:Dragon Ball, Naruto, BNHA, Bleach, HxH, JoJo, Death Note
FTFY

> rape
She doesn't get rape.

seething shounenfags

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this kid is pretentious as fuck, and yet i guarantee you hes just a bullied beta

>I know nothing so I'll continue to sound stupid

Why is death note consider a shonen?

I guess twinks are more your speed.

Are you the one who couldn't understand Hunter x Hunter is a shounen?

Ran in Shonen Jump.

well its better written then FT, hxh, and beelzebub atleast

>authors use references

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

Near and Mello

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You have yet to prove why HxH is a shounen, Keeo in mind that both your magazine and furigana arguments got debunked

you've already been proven wrong so many times. why keep going?

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Oh,I thought shonen was a genre of manga my bad.

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Those weren't my arguments. If you think that, you are so obviously a samefag. Keep going dunce. It's actually entertaining at this point, cause you keep responding to anyone mentioning it.

This was my post

>HXHfags have legitimate delusions, thinking they proved anything

Boku no pico hands down has the best art work and storytelling of any anime ever to exist. Its protagonist is masterfully driven through an exotic world with a wide array of friends and enemies alike. World building alone is top tier and second to none. Art work is superbly fluent and takes a unique style blend, that even the greats have acknowledged over the years. Voice acting is wondrous with some of the most intriguing and awe inspiring lines of dialogue delivered.

Simply the one true masterpiece that must be on every watchlist.

this

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>Cobra
Isn't its plot basically Total Recall mashed with Star Wars and James Bond?

Did you respond to the right posts? All of those share different views.

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>mha and bcfags SEETHING
OH NO NO NONONO

"hunter"chads cant take the fact their favorite comic runs in a shounen magazine. pft ahahaahahaahhahhhahah in all seriousness though hxh is a seinin just like berserk, tokyoghoul and attack on titan

I haven't read a single chapter of MHA or BC.

Dude, I'm literally one of the people saying HxH is a shonen. Stop spazzing. Or have you been false flagging as both the whole time?

Genuinely curious; what the Dickens is your obsession with proving HxH is seinen founded on? Just because a work of literature/art/media is meant for a 'younger' audience doesn't mean it's somehow artistically 'inferior', the same way Charlotte's Web, Treasure Island and Andersen's Fairy Tales aren't worthless because they were mainly read by children.

If we count only Battle Shonen, probably FMA Brotherhood (yet im not sure if it should counts as a battle shonen) but if we split it by parts, Dragon ball (before z)

If we are talking about shonen in general, Ashita no Joe (anime)

snk chads are always welcome

If making classical references automatically makes a manga 'seinen', then historical fiction like Golden Kamuy trump it every day of the week. Seriously, read a chapter and see how many cultural/historical references you can find WITHOUT relying on scanlator-provided explanations.

The one that can have shit writing and make infinitely more money than yours

CHAD BALL

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>hxhfags baiting newfags for hours.

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>One Piece has no real influence
That really is a hell of a thing to say about the man who's practically Japan's best answer to Walt Disney, only overshadowed by Akira Toriyama.

Dragon Ball is just coasting off of nostalgia and past laurels at this point. It's the manga/anime equivalent of being famous for being famous.

Written by a pedo fuck off

>Written by a pedo
based

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The first anime was better

He wasn't watching fictional shit, he had real CP in his computer.
But he's still a mangaka right now, fuck japan

Good animes are the ones who come as more popular and relatable.

To date only DB and Naruto have to come to it. Since it appeals a much more larger audience.

Face it. the more normies like one particular anime makes it good because undeniably applies to larger audiences and more wide opinion. They induce more dialogue.

One piece may be long as shit but outside of japan is shit. No one cares about OP as nearly as people did for Naruto and much less for DB.

Allow me to suggest a different candidate.

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kenshin or dbz

Really? Then what about this?

twitter.com/opfandom/status/888081469717041153?lang=en

Plenty of people care about OP; the sales figures and anime viewership certainly reflect it. Also, Luffy is arguably one of the most recognisable characters worldwide.

I'm just going to say DB because it's the most famous and the one most copy from.

ESL the post

Everything listed is wrong, also where does One Piece fit in this list?

>kenshin
pedo

Just because I learned to seperate the art from the artist doesn't make make me a pedo

>thinking blood and guts = mature
Toriko also has deep Buddhism-inspired
and existential philosophical themes. It's still for teens. Get off your high horse.

Japs force it. But if you ask a commoner whats one piece they will say "what?"

Naruto is the one with the spikey yellow head
Goku is the one who turns blonde
OP ????

Fans of the series buy the merchandise but thats it. Theres hardly enough caps dubbed compared to the other two.

You should precise that the girl was 16, unlike Kenshin's mangaka, Toriko's author didn't go after little children

How does it feel to give money to a pedo?

I agree it's messed up he's still working, but kenshin is still an alright manga regardless of what he did.

There's not just 'merchandise', there are theme parks, cafes, tributes and shoutouts from other manga artists (e.g. Toriko, BNHA, Shokugeki no Soma) and much, much more. Show anyone Luffy's Straw Hat Jolly Roger, and it's likely they'll recognise it.

Yes but it say a lot about Japan if a litteral pedo who literally admitted to be one to the police is still allowed to work.
Not saying that western countries do not have a lot of pedo who were caught (especially at hollywood) but if most were open or admitted their pedophilia, they would lost their career but Kenshin's mangaka didn't.

What's funny about Toriko is how perfunctory the hero's 'romance' with Rin is. Apart from the life-saving kiss he gives her in the Mammoth Arc, he just absent-mindedly humours her advances, but never really shares the same affection he gives to Komatsu. Even the ending has him haring off into outer space with his cook buddy with little regard for his supposed 'wife'.

>all these hxhvirgins getting BTFO
glorious thread as always gentlemen

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Yu Yu Hakusho is IMO the best Shonen. The Dark Tournament and Chapter Black are kino as fuck.

Dragon ball
/thread

Mob psycho > all shounen

Mob psycho = best shounen

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i didn't know he was a pedo, i was just recounting what i loved most when i was younger.

have sex

>The reading demographic for HxH are also adults, because kids aren't going to pick up HxH and Togashi isn't going to change the plot or themes to suit the few new readers who might pick it up.

that could be an error, just look all the yearly digital stores rankings, HxH is charting in a lot of them, and keep in mind that digital readers skew older. He’s doing well.

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Gintama

What do Hunterfags even see in it? I had one friend who tried telling me that the Chimera Arc is the best shounen arc ever made, but when I watched all of the nearly-100 episodes leading up to it, it was such a fucking shit arc. Not to mention the faggy edgelord of a main antagonist that these fags jerk off to unimaginable levels.

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So wea ll agree on dragon ball?
Good

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Hunter x Hunter and Dragon Ball (both og parts)

HxH has the better narrative obviously but DB's world and style is a lot more imaginative as much of a mess it is.

One Piece is great too but got too much fluff. Naruto is too cringy and annoying.
JoJo relies too much on explaining the moves and abilities and is too inconsistent.
MHA plays it too safe and the school setting is boring.
FMA I never count as one as I prefer the more seinen-esque '03 anime. Manga and Brotherhood are good but not that great.
Soul Eater actually had the potential to be at the top but both anime and manga had shit endings. Still one of the best for the style and pace up until the ressurection.

No other worth mentioning. I guess Death Note but as others have said it's not really comparable.