In your experience, can some anime be considered intellectual?
I did a 4-year BA in philosophy. Never went in Hunter threads on Yea Forums because I didn't want to spoil myself on the show. A friend of mine convinced me to watch it and during the Chimera arc I kept telling him how much it reminded me of Hegel's theory of consciousness. Lo and behold I come to discuss HxH on Yea Forums and there's a running joke about Hegel being relevant to the show. It was funny because someone other than me must have picked up on what I was seeing in it. I'm not saying the show is "on par with" Hegel's writing, just that it's strongly reminiscent of it and possibly inspired by it in some way or other. But yeah there's a lot of philosophical nuance in that particular part of the story, which isn't something altogether foreign to anime. Yes, anime can (and often does) have intellectual themes for me.
Point is if you read more than shonen shit this wouldn't even be a question
Carson Ross
Because it offers philosophical insight and provides compelling character studies, that's why many people see HxH as one of the most intellectual pieces in the market. You are insulting it by putting it into the same trashcan as those other generic Shonen, HxH is nothing like that. HxH is art in its purest form.
Of course, there's a lot of good substantial anime/manga... And HXH is not one of them...
Much less the chimera arc, which is trash (saved just by some details)...
Jordan Ortiz
Serious question, how are you still not getting tired of hunterchadposting?
Elijah Thomas
It can sure. But I think more often than not I think whatever form of influential thinkers that finds its way into stuff like HxH, is just whatever distilled version was useful and pared down enough to have slipped into popular consciousness. You could pick parables out of children's shows that were certainly Avant-garde in their day. Are those shows more intellectual than the shit we're talking about? I don't know if intellectual is a very good descriptor.
John Torres
HxH is more than a shounen. If you know Hegel's work, you should be able to understand Togashi's deep knowledge of western (specifically 18th and 19th century german) philosophy. In HxH there is an overarching tendency for existential ponderings and questions, with references to the self as an internal and an external state, seperated in the infinite. This distresses the characters, since this creates uncertainty, loss and pain. Especially Meruem and Gon struggle with the 'incompleteness' and 'form' of the world. Instrumentality is used as a possible alternative, a world where 'self' is absolved, and consciousness 'returns' to unity, without loss or evil. Gon, who grows from the cycle of internal interpretation and external communication with the outside world, in the end rejects Instrumentality, and chooses seperation, as with the pain, angst and uncertainty also comes resolution, in feeling and wonder. The feeling of CHOICE, and the will of being motivates him to live on. Meruem has the same resolution. And the dynamics of seperation as compared to the statics of Instrumentality leads Meruem to choose the same as Gon. Famous philosophers such as Kierkegaard and Nietzsche touches on subjects similar to the themes of Hunter x Hunter.
Hunterchads are becoming boring. Only extremely new people fall for this.
John Young
Yea Forums has non-meme autistm. It's the only explanation for how people on the board can engage in the same repetitive shit for hour after hour and actually enjoy it.
Jacob Scott
It is literally the same pasta and the same images day after fucking day. Like jesus christ we get it its on hiatus go watch and read something else. They just refuse to move on from their gateway anime.
Or its non fans shitposting which is even more retarded. And the idea that its 100% of either category is bullshit.
Levi James
KEK
Using that perspective you can make an argument linking Peppa Pig with the work of Schopenhauer...
You are just looking an imaginary connection to fulfill your "pursuit of satisfaction".
Ethan Turner
>Only extremely new people fall for this. From the fucking whisper singing it's pretty evident the entire hunterchad movement is just a of underage b& fags that think Yea Forums is supposed to be like Yea Forums
Jayden Ross
>Much less the chimera arc, which is trash (saved just by some details)... That's because your nothing more than a miserable malcontent just pretending not to understand HxH(a true masterpiece without equal) to dissuade people from reading by undermining it intellectual aspects and overall fantastic writing which constantly deconstructs common tropes and genres and turns them into unique events and twists
I am actually legit familiar with Hegel's work and I kinda felt like it for a moment too, that the Chimera arc had something to do with self-consciousness. You know, how Meruem realizes his humanity only as soon as he is able to meet someone that is in a way similar to him - Komugi is unbeatable at this one game, so at this one game, he recognizes himself in her, and gets fascinated, wants to know more about another "super powerful being" and through her, recognizes the humanity growing within himself slowly but surely. You can make this sort of parallel, but it's in the end quite random, there are many stories you can make this parallel with and as long as nothing is explicity you are likely just projecting random ideas. When interpreting a piece of work, always remain strictly on the evidence.
Jack White
What's the Yea Forums equivalent of McDonalds arthouse? That's what HxH is.
Jaxson Bell
>And HXH is not one of them... HxH is has proven itself capable of intellectual depth time and time again, and if you couldn't perceive that through it's amazing symbolism and narration, you are indeed a brainlet
Tyler Ross
>That's because your nothing more than a miserable...
... Little pile of secrets
James Hughes
It's literally the Rick and Morty of Yea Forums
Oliver Smith
How did HxH became so hated on Yea Forums? What makes all those shitposters larp as HxHfags day after day just to make any serious discussion of the manga impossible?
I disagree. Yes, its true that on average books far exceed anime when it comes to intellectual themes but there are some instances where anime surpasses the hundreds of shitty books that get released every day. Your pic is an example of this. Throughout the series, Casshern talk about grand and abstract motivations such as eternity, perfection, power, atonement, among others. Casshern Sins is a show whose narrative demands the viewers to pay attention, figure out what is going on, and reflect on its messages. There are only a few example of really good and thought provoking anime. HxH and Casshern are some of them.
Jayden Thompson
Wrong. On the other hand, Peppa Pig has proven itself capable of intellectual depth time and time again, and if you couldn't perceive that through it's amazing symbolism and narration, you are indeed a brainlet
Sebastian Smith
>It's literally the Rick and Morty of Yea Forums Why do """"people""" always repeat this phrase when they have no argument against HxH?
If you want genuine discussion, you enter a HxH thread during chapter days like any normal human being would do. I love HxH, but shitpost as a Hunterchad to pass the time. If a new chapter drops, I will stop posting as a Hunterchad for the time being.
>No. Anime/manga, games, comic books can't be that intellectual.
If you actually think that, you have no idea what you are talking about, or even knwo what makes a work intellectual in the first place.
Ian Wright
Yea Forums's either larping as well, pretending to take the bait, or it's legitimately filled with retards. Either way the result is that you can't really take the board any more seriously than you would /pol/ or Yea Forums. To avoid being trolled you have to become the troll.
Bentley Young
Being a pseudointellectual wankfest for spergs to fume about seems like a valid argument to me, user.
Juan Bell
>Being a pseudointellectual wankfest for spergs to fume about seems like a valid argument to me So much like the lain or nge fanbase etc.? Yet I only see your hate boner for HxH and its fanbase..
>To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Hunter x Hunter. The world building is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the plot will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Killuhas nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Greek literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of the plot, to realize that it's not just fights but also tries to say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Hunter x Hunter truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the deep meaning in Meruems existencial catchphrase "Kill all humans" which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Togashi`s genius unfolds itself on their Computer screens. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have a Hunter x Hunter tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
Its mostly shounenfags. HxH makes a lot of them insecure because deep down they know its well written and miles better than their favorite shounen.
Zachary Murphy
Choice isn't important to Hegel. I do see the parallels between the different stages, but the thing is that these stages aren't as important to his thought as it may seem. Although I should probably read the manga. Also there really is a lot of cheating in this interpretation. Gungi as the labour of the slave? Come one, the Gungi obviously has a completely different purpose.
Michael James
I'm not talking about books like Twilight or Harry Potter. I'm talking about classic literature, philosophy books. Casshern Sins and similar anime are better than 90% of modern books. >throughout the series, Casshern talk about grand and abstract motivations such as eternity, perfection, power, atonement, among others I thought about talking about it in my first post. The intellectual aspects of Casshern Sins were explored in many older books. It doesn't take the intellectual merits of the anime but it only shows that intellectual anime/manga, games or comic books are not on equal footing with intellectual books.
>I did a 4-year BA in philosophy And how is your life as a barista now?
Bentley Jenkins
>When interpreting a piece of work, always remain strictly on the evidence. Hegel is directly referenced in HxH by name, meaning that Togashi knows about him.
Any artistic medium can be intellectual in nature but what matters is how it does it. Take Holyland for example. It goes into philosophical topics like personal sanctuaries, social outcast, suicidal depression, nature of violence, and belonging. It's important for intellectual art to not be 2deep4u or pretentiously philosophical for the sake of seeming smarter than it truly is. Any art that tries to ask deeper questions than the surface level ones need to stay within their boundaries, i.e. a manga about a young girl like Yotsuba shouldn't be asking questions about sexual assault. Intellectual art also shouldn't bring up questions with no answers and asking you to answer them. They also shouldn't ask questions and give clear definite answers or tell you what's right and wrong because this denies you the chance to think for yourself and come to your own answer, which is the goal of any self-respecting intellectual art work. It seems like a thin line to walk, but it's really not, there are simply so many examples of it done wrong.
I see your point. When one reflects on the epic genre of literature they might think of Homer's wine-dark sea, the ferocity of Grendel, or maybe Dante's vision of Heaven and Hell. Epics are large works that force their way into their restricted genre, not just by their size and scope, but on the impact and influence they have on the society in which they are created. For something to be called an epic, it must be replete with cultural significance and deal with important themes on a grand scale. Moreover, it must be accepted as having this significance by the culture that spawned it.
Comics have a bad reputation because they do not often come to mind when one discusses the various great epics of literature. In America for instance, the medium has often been plagued with a biased dismissal by the academic world that has only in recent decades begun to change. Yet when one examines the criteria established by scholars of the subject, they see that the comic book medium is more closely related to the ancient genre then might at first be realized. Hunter x Hnter, Devilman, Lone Wolf and Cub, are a clear example of a comic book that follows all the requirements to be considered a member of the epic genre of literature.
This was an interesting read. Does HxH reference other philosophers?
Jace Long
Well, there are references to Kafka in HxH, like the relationship between Gon and his father, Ging, is clearly reminiscent of the relationship between Georg - the fictional main character in Kafka's short story The Judgment (German: "Das Urteil") - and his father. Their names even have the same first letter. Georg - like Gon - faces difficulties in living up to the high expectations set by his father, a successful businessman (Ging being a successful hunter). The father is often described as a giant - figuratively speaking - who is vastly more powerful than Georg and keeps an emotional distance from his son. Some even argue that he would rather not have a son at all.
Hunter x Hunter tells a story that can not only be read as a communicative father-son conflict, but unfolds the model scenes of an inner-family power struggle to life and death, which played not only verbally, but also physically like a choreography (Lowering of the son, carrying the father, covering the father, raising the father). In the apparatus of power "family", the social, erotic and economic structures are indivisibly interlinked as determinants of bourgeois existence. The disappearance of the mother, on the one hand, and Gon's marriage intentions to Palm and his hunter success, on the other, change the familial power structure that the father restores at the price of extinguishing the family.
You should probably read The Judgment, as it is one of Kafka's most discussed short stories, if not one of the most discussed short stories in all of German literature. It is only natural that an intellectual such as Togashi would reference it in his works at multiple instances.
James Hernandez
>referencing old art pieces equals depth Nothing will top night at the museum bros...
Adam Reed
They had a bad habit of going into other generals and starting to not so subtly shift the conversation to hxh. After being told to fuck off they'd basically rage quit and but not before stroking their egos one last time by saying the only reason they didnt like hxh as much as they did or at all was because they were too stupid to really understand and appreciate it.
They also went a little crazy with spamming versus threads. So people started acting like retarded hxh fanboys to fuck with them. Of course that backfired because the hxh fags were actually okay with that because at least when they are chadposting they are still talking about hxh.
Just go to MAL reviews of hxh to see they the fans really do buy into the whole "its complex and deep and subversive and deconstructive and literacy genius" meme that everyone shits on them for
It's deep if it presents powerful existing ideas under a new context or if it develops novel ideas that hold their own ground on top of the existing ones it references. If it's just referencing existent ideas but not substantiating them or, even worse, if it goes backwards ideologically, presenting ideas easily debunked by previous works as new and profound, it's not deep. It doesn't matter if it's popular or niche, there exist popular works that are deep and niche works that are trash.
Dominic Reed
There were only like three deep episodes and Gladiator arena was trash.
Anthony Reed
Like Tokyo ghoul for instance. Mindless symbolism without ever adding something inovative.
Asher Russell
This is perfectly represented in the chimera arc's "no, we humans are far, far worse..." flashback. A bunch of symbolism and themes are thrown at the screen in order to attach some greater significance to the story. Except then those same ideas are never expanded upon or addressed again.
It's all superficial. Like Nolan throwing christian imagery into the dark knight and justice league movies. It's one of the laziest ways of trying to elevate your work.
Juan Fisher
>"its complex and deep and subversive and deconstructive and literacy genius" meme >implying it's a meme found the low iq that won't cope even when he is spoonfeed on this very thread about HxH genius.
Leo Powell
You're an absolute brainlet. This user actually made a good post, explaining how an anime be be deep without being pretenitous and then you go and ruin it with your retarded subhuman brain that completely missed the point of the Chimera Ant arc and the whole point of that scene.
Tyler Rogers
fucking based, how do we get more in the industry to be based chads?
I still like how Meruem was killed by the worst invention of humanity of them all, the nuclear bomb.
Kevin Taylor
>comparing the literary genius of togashi to cape shit I don't think you full understand what level he is on. HxH is written in such a complex way that the translation team actually struggles. They have to constantly refer to ancient japanese texts and get consultations from literacy phds in order to get it done
Jason Phillips
terrible bait thread most hunterchads enjoy the liberal arts but their meat and potatoes are in hard stem fields
Nathan Walker
>the worst invention of humanity of them all >implying the atomic bombs even killed that many people
If he really wanted to parallel nuclear bombs they would have found way to make it so terrible and fucked up that Meruem would have agreed to a ceasefire i.e. MAD
Grayson Thomas
I think a truly groundbreaking work will be loathed in Japan or it will at least polarize audiences. Why? Because it will be a work visibly breaking with core Japanese values: hierarchy, tradition, duty, purity, etc. Anything that references philosophy or whatnot only to strengthen traditional values is superficial, in my opinion. At the very least, it needs to challenge those values and explore something new, even if it doesn't succeed.
Aiden Howard
It's endproduct of the human need for war and destruction, but ironically, the nuclear bomb now holds us back from all out war.
Ayden Hill
exactly. Something like that represented in HxH or any other manga/anime I would respect the hell out of.
Julian Hall
anything can be intellectual retard, I learned about the day night cycle from teletubbies
Gabriel Morris
That's NGE copypasta
Jonathan Myers
>tfw reading Rousseau and Jung, while doing crunches and BTFOing shitters on Yea Forums all at the same time >tfw only Hunterchads can know how it feels to be this patrician
The quote is "(humans are) as bad as the ants, no... even worse". >A bunch of symbolism and themes are thrown at the screen in order to attach some greater significance to the story. Except then those same ideas are never expanded upon or addressed again. user, every human nation in the arc is shown as cruel and hypocritical, the NGL, East Gorteau, and all of the V5 use lies to justify themselves and were guilty of thousands of the deaths we saw throughout the arc. Not just in the flashback. Gyro used the NGL as a cover for his drug trafficking and the lack of communications to the outside world led to the rise of the Ants, the NGL's brand of communism quickly allowed Meruem to gain control over a country and the authoritarian mechanics were used to keep the population from revolting, the V5 put a bomb that they had themselves banned in the chest of Netero, and them and Netero killed thousands when Pouf got contaminated with Poison and spread his Spores. The mechanics of the bomb already demonstrate more ruthlessness than any of the ants. And then you have Gon behaving worse than any of the Royal Guards or Meruem. You don't see Pouf throwing a fit and brutally killing the Hunters when he learns that he and Meruem will die.
>It's all superficial. Like Nolan throwing christian imagery into the dark knight and justice league movies. It's one of the laziest ways of trying to elevate your work. Nolan didn't even make Justice League, you are thinking of Snyder, and the Batman movies barely have any christian symbolism.
There is literally nothing right in your entire post.
Ayden Collins
Good post but the actual quote is "We can be much worse than them". They did a sloppy job at translating a lot of stuff.
Define "intellectual". Referencing art is definitely not intellectual, it's just a cool little thing to have. And sometimes it's not even it. Sometimes it might create some additional context, but that's about it.
Luke Williams
Looks like faux symbolism to me.
Jayden Garcia
>Define "intellectual" I would say most works of literature that contain obvious derivations on preexisting works, and my brain only has the ready example of how One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest felt to me like a straight ripoff from Moby Dick, most everything like that, "the original is better than the copy." HxH feels like the opposite. Like he took dragonball z and the functioning mind of an adult male with his own offspring and family unit, and distilled the Rolls Royce Merlin engine from some shitty modern Chinese Cessna rip offs and a couple lawn mowers Mazda built in the 90s with Wankel engines.
I would call HxH the modern masterpiece of the "forensics" of shonen writing; with all its callbacks and shout outs to everything toriyama did in DB and DQ. It was like, is like, the only reason jump still pays him is to put on a soccer clinic for the younger mangakas to learn writing skills, from.
Jaxon Garcia
This is the most pretentious combination of words I've seen today.
