This was fantastic...

I actually live texhnolyze, but it's the definition of pretentious artistic masturbation. It's more likely that your ignorance made you miss all the references to paintings and obscure artsy cinema.

>retarded-ass mafia drama is entertaining
By the time it started getting entertaining it ended.

do you consider "but it's boring" to be constructive criticism?
then why would the opposite be constructive praise?
explain how Tex was better than Lain

>some reference to hopper's paintings and to frank lloyd wright
ooga booga really obscure references amirite fellas, truly pretentious and boring

I disliked lain mostly for the same reasons I disliked monogatari. The world the characters are in isn't well defined and took a backseat to other elements. To me it feels like the characters simply "exist" and are dropped into place which to me is not super enjoyable. With Tex and Haibane the world around the characters plays a larger role in the way the story is built up. This provides a point of reference in my opinion.

The world in Tex is well defined? Could have fooled me. It's some drab and uninteresting looking town and the above ground world isn't introduced until quite a ways into the series. The advanced tech is almost completely throwaway fluff. There are also zero likable or interesting characters in Tex.

So you didn't get anything else out of it besides mafia drama? One of the best parts of the story is how it builds up this mafia/gang impending war amongst these small factions. Then two episodes later the Organo go from being the be all end all to just another group of stragglers below the earth.

Lain sure did make me masturbate, but not in a pretentious or artistic way.

>The world the characters are in isn't well defined and took a backseat to other elements.
>ignoring the whole point of it not being real in-universe

>There are also zero likable or interesting characters in Tex

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Lain is for hugs not fugs.

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>ignoring the whole point of it not being real in-universe
Could you specify just a bit?

Lain is for plebbit plebs and wannabes. Tex is the real deal.

Also, you don't talk about Tex and Haibane, OP.

Haibane > Lain > Niea_7 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tex

Lain controlls both the wired and the real world

You forgot NHK

Truth. Check em, nerds.

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Ergo Proxy is literally better than all of that crap.

the voice acting sucked as did about 3/4's of the OST. the character designs were also really uninspired other than the three main characters. also the director completely misinterpreted Kierkegaard though that may have been on purpose

Haibane wasn't great, Lain was
Tex is below Haibane but not so shit
*tips raison d'être*

Ain = Lain = Ran

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It's been a while since I watched it, but isn't it said very early that the lines between the wired and reality are being heavily obscured? Once we find out Lain is the "god" of the Wired she would also govern reality as a matter of course.

*tips hologram theory*

What about Rakka though?

NHK isn't ABe. He drew the book's cover, but did not work on the anime.

>Once we find out Lain is the "god" of the Wired she would also govern reality as a matter of course.
exactly
but it makes no sense to give exposition of reality when the anime at first shows her as a wired only goddess
plus depending on how you interpret SEL, there was no reality to begin with, just a simulation forced on Lain
think of it as low draw distance in games
can't develop something that isn't there
and by the time she starts controlling both sides the plot is already over so it makes even less sense to show us the real world

You made a shitty bait thread for my favorite anime, fuck you.

I like most of the voice acting, specially Ran and Ichise. The character design is my favorite thing, mostly because despite everyone looking so plain and down to earth, there's still some minor details so unusual in anime that makes some of the cast stand out in a weird way.

If you think this is shitty bait you haven't been on Yea Forums the past year. The discussion in this thread is miles ahead in regards to quality than most threads currently on this board.

Lang is Ran not Rain

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>Your fav anime is tex
user...

Texhnolyze > Despera > Niea_7 > Haibane > Lain > Rerided

Time for Blooming Flower is one of the most beautiful OST pieces.

SEL had a more interesting premise and a better quality overall, Texhnolyze quality is pretty poor most of times, and I'm talking about DBS kind of quality, I will talk about the ending once I'm there.
Is just your typical One Piece political struggles, I don't understand the praise to be honest.

Yeah it was great. I don't get how people call it pretentious when it's basically the opposite of that.

Still applies to both. Why call her Lang like some film director? She's Ran.

The Union is self-explanatory as they're against texhnolyzation
Rakan is just a bunch of troublemakers who pride themselves on being "free" even though they're not, and oppose Organo's rule on most of Lux
Organo is the intermediary between the Class and the rest of the city, and controls raffia supply and thus the texhnolyzation process
There's no real power struggle at first since Organo's authority is made clear, it's just that Kimata occasionally fucks with them. Everything goes to shit later on because the entire city is destabilized by the aftermath of Yoshii's actions, leading Rakan to disband and Organo to become fragmented.

>There are also zero likable or interesting characters in Tex.
Yoshii, Shinji, Doc, Onishi, Onishi's secretary (if only because her fate makes her pitiable), the Theonormal Ichise speaks to before leaving the surface, Yoshii's pushover friend whose name I forgot, and obviously Ran

It's really funny how Texhnolyze is probably the only anime that has such a clear "love it or hate it" aspect. I've never seen anyone in these threads claim it was "pretty good" or "average", it's either an amazing anime or one of the worst pieces of shit user has seen.

I think Tex is more impressive as a show but overall, Lain is more impressive. It essentially predicted the internet and user behavior over 10 years before we saw it come to pass.

Sakimura(Yoshii's coworker from the surface) to my memory does not die at the end and may be the last human alive with a will.

Tex is good but the ending is way to depressing to enjoy.

>pretentious artistic masturbation.
God I hate Yea Forums‘s mindset so much, when will you guys fucking grow up? I am so sick of this shit for fucks sake. Just because you failed English doesn’t mean you have to sperg about it.

Yea Forums just is completely delusional.

>Yea Forums is one person

I actually missed that. I wonder if staying alive after what Kano has done to the city (and the surface being what it is) is worse than actually dying, though.

You got it backwards.

Of course it's worse, the ones that died found purpose in their life. The Shapes are fucked for eternity, in Sakimura's case, it's up to speculation whether he'd fade away like the rest of the surface people or if he'd kill himself because he is very indecisive.

Possibly the worst anime I ever saw to completion

>found purpose in their life
Shinji didn't seem very fulfilled to me at the time of his death.
>whether he'd fade away
Probably this, I don't see him having the necessary drive to kill himself.

I'm rewatching Texh for the first time in years and I'm enjoying myself so much more. The first time around I thought the show was alright but I didn't really get what was going on, this time I have enough knowledge to understand but thanks to taking such a long break everything still feels new to me. This show gets way too much hate by people that obviously aren't part of the intended audience, there's nothing wrong with a show being "slow and boring"when it's used properly.

Had the same experience last fall. The scenes of Yoshii's descent into Lux and Ran leaving a trail of flowers into the sewer hit me really hard. When I got to the finale I cried just as hard as the first time I saw it.

It's hitting me a lot harder too and I still haven't reached the surface, I even felt some tears at the death of Onishi's wife. I didn't remember her at all.
Ran saying she didn't want to see Ichise's future really hurt.

ghost hound any good?

>Ran saying she didn't want to see Ichise's future really hurt.
Since both their futures intertwine in the end, I thought she was also saying that she didn't want to see her own future either.
That's the beauty of Texh on a rewatch. It's such a slow burn that, even though you know that it all ends up in flames, by the time everything's built up and you reach the climax you realize you didn't even notice it when the whole world first caught on fire.

Kino no Tabi >>>> serial experiments lain >>>> Shigofumi = Ghost Hound >>>> Haibane Renmei = Texhnolyze / Ergo Proxy

Manga was better.

Why are there 2 texhnolyze threads suddenly

A bait containment thread and a thread for actual discussion.

>Kino

3 threads

Toyama's VA needs more roles, I can't believe he's only worked on this and some minor character in Ping Pong. I loved his voice, it was so smooth.

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>tfw Yoshii's VA never got another role

>And now he's dead
It's not fair

What manga

Yeah it sucks, he really nailed the mysterious ojisan perfectly.

Did Doc kill herself? When her final monologue was playing over the radio it looked like blood was coming out from under a door. I assumed that's what that meant

Guy in your pic is a homo

>It essentially predicted the internet and user behavior over 10 years before we saw it come to pass.
Jesus Christ, you fucking zoomers are unreal. By 97 the internet had already been a staple of nerd culture for years. There were rampant Usenet anime discussions and more. Hollywood had made various flicks addressing internet subculture, such as Hackers. When will you 14 year olds finally stop pretending that Lain predicted anything? It addressed a social phenomenon that had already existed for years you goddamn mongrel.

>blood was coming out from under a door.
It was water, it's implied she drowned herself.

Amazing show, one of the best I've watched for sure.

The only actually "pretentious" anime is Tenshi no Tamago, but even that is still pretty good stuff.

What the fuck was her problem?

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Sexually attracted to Ichise's eyes. Can't blame her, it sounds like blue eyes are a real rarity in Lux.

You may be on to something since that's what Doc said she liked about Ichise as well

Did ABe ever release an artbook or similar for Texhnolyze? I've found so much content for Lain/HR/Niea etc but barely anything Texh related.

amazon.com/Gaisokyu-Artbook-Japanese-Yoshitoshi-Abe/dp/4862690254

Kind of, a few of his illustrations for Texhnolyze are featured in here.

I've had my eye on this for a while actually, I was hoping there were some more pieces of art hidden away somewhere.

There's only like 3-5 pages of it so it's not really worth it unless you're a fan of his other work too though.

I'm also a Haibane/Ryushika fag so that's not really a problem with me and I love his artstyle anyway, there's something about how he draws eyes that I can't get enough of.

I feel you, have a thing for how Naoki Urasawa is drawing faces of old people and rain so I basically bought all of his manga lmao

there is truly nothing worse than people who use the word pretentious. why anti-intellectualism is trending in the 21st century is beyond me. it's not even punk. it's just a kneejerk reaction to things you are unfamiliar with. people are scared of art in this day and age.
weeeeeew.

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>everyone dies and humanity goes extinct
Wouldn't this have happened within the next 10 years once the Theonormals die off anyway? Someone above has to maintain the underground city otherwise it just turns into a prison. All Ran did was speed up the process instead of slowly watching it all crumble

For me it's always been like this.

1. Texhnolyze - the slow pace actually really paid off and it got its point across without being unnecessarily artsy

2. Monster - great story, even though some arcs were unnecessary. People who say it's shit or pretentious are the same who are still confused about Johan's true motivations, which makes it beyond hilarious since they're also the ones who claim it to be bad.

3. NGE - Good story, I don't have think it's anything special nowadays but when I was 13 it was blowing my mind a bit.

4. Lain - I don't get why so many people love it other than wanting to fuck a loli. The story in itself has been done a hundred times in novels and existential works before, but I guess Yea Forums doesn't read that much... it comes off as extremely artsy, and I'm not surprised since the only people I've ever seen talk about it in real life were 14 year old female art students.

5. Ergo Proxy - absolute horseshit. It had no business being this long, the entire show was a letdown and honestly the only thing redeemable was the main character's design.

If you like ABe Gaisokyu is absolutely worth it.

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>It's legitimately the only anime I've seen that I consider actually pretentious.
>Lain actually has interesting ideas and things happening and imo justifies its presentation.
That's the point, Texhnolyze is a chilling experience regardless of the ideas behind it - hence people claiming to like it are not affecting greater intellect than they actually have. I don't think is Lain is pretentious but it's more pretentious than Texh because there's a clear effort to be smart there.

In a bad mood.
See this thread
See Ran
Remember texhnolyzye
Hear "walking through an empty age".
Feel like killing myself

>Lain
Memeing by certain people
Female lead super powerful underage girl who's gay
That's all.

>no artbook
>no merch
>the two OSTs aren't even comprehensive
>Blu-Ray never ever

Being a Tex fan is (appropriately) suffering

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>Hear "walking through an empty age".
When Reason Fails is the true underrated song in Tex.

we can agree to disagree

>Ran
No. That is not correct.
The guy from above saw what was happening and tried to cause upheaval so that a new order could happen and hopefully save humanity.

Also that guy losing his fucking mind and condemning what was left of humanity to that horrifying state where they'll evolve into...fuck knows what is what happened.

>Accused of being a pretentious twat for saying you like it on an anonymous taiwanese tapestry forum.
It really is

Lol are newfags still thinking anime like Lain are insert insecurity cover up buzzwor..I mean..pretentious? XD

Totally agree on Ergo Proxy. I see it grouped in with Texhnolyze a lot despite Texh being astronomically better.

Very underage post

>not sleepless town
it's /nightwalk/ as fuck

Should've said song with lyrics.
Sleepless Town, The Edge and Only One Warmth are amazing though, the entire OST is stellar to be honest.

>Only One Warmth
That's the good shit.

>I just thought if you would stay here forever...
>Well, it was just a thought. The empty dream of a ghost.

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Pretentious is an overused word used for something someone doesn't like but it does have a definition.

>attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

Tex fits this definition to a t. It has little artistic value, or any kind of value at all, but it communicates this substanceless pulp story through faux-artistic direction to obfuscate its lack of substance. That is the definition of pretentious. The example I usually use is imagine if Lain was directed exactly the same but if it was a CGDCT show instead of what it is. That is what Tex is.

the philosophy in tex is subtle ignoring mr ubermensch if you think nhilism the anime is pretentious you are a brainlet who must have never graduated high school

GITS Lain or pyscho pass its in your face with monologues/quotes but not with texhnolyze
tl;dr readabooknigger.png

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>No. That is not correct
Ran made everyone insane which sped up the process of humanity collapsing

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>inspiration from other works and little dialogue means it's pretentious
>I, an anonymous faggot on Yea Forums, can objectively define artistic value
Jesus christ imagine being this far up your own ass to the extent that you're unable to see a show for what it is, i.e. just a show.
Tex never pretends to be anything else than a story about struggle. Inspiration from Hopper or real life architecture are neat little details, that's it.
You're like the people who get angry over Lynch movies being "pretentious" when the whole reason why they're enjoyable is because of the atmosphere, visuals, sound direction, not the meaningless conclusions you may draw from some shitty analysis.
Stop getting irrationally frustrated over fucking nothing.

there's nothing uber about humans dying out though
>readabook
if your anime requires a manual to understand then it's poorly directed

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Being pretentious doesn't mean intellectual, or smart.

Ergo Proxy is pretentious as all fuck.

Lynch is an actual artist whose movies have substance, either in their stories or in what you mentioned. Inland Empire is a masterpiece of cinema. Tex is the complete opposite of this, having no redeeming value, and yet is structured like a Lynch movie.

>and yet is structured like a Lynch movie.
What the fuck are you talking about, there is absolutely nothing lynchian about Texhnolyze at all. Stop trying to sound smart.
>redeeming value
That term is meaningless in this context.

Pseudo-intellectual American high school droputs: The Thread

>Lynch is an actual artist whose movies have substance
I honestly can't believe you're accusing other people of being pretentious.

I'm not. I'm accusing the series of being pretentious. Or at most the director.

A series can't put on an affectation, only people who watch it can.

>By 97 the internet had already been a staple of nerd culture for years
Thanks for calling this it pisses me off how many people use "b-b-but it predicted the internet." as a defense.
All Lain has going for it is ABe and the atmosphere. It was definitely a show that had something to say but what it didn't feel particularly insightful.

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>your reason for enjoying [thing] is wrong because it's pretentious according to my completely anecdotal and irrelevant definition of pretentiousness!
Shut the fuck up and let people like what they like, autistic fucks

>can't even spell his insults
real ESL hours

Is there anything more pretentious than unironically calling an artwork pretentious?
The only thing anyone is really saying when they state that an artwork pretentious is that they deem it unfit to reach for bigger themes, which is frankly just an assertion that your opinion of the artwork is more important than the artwork itself, which is the very definition of pretentiousness.
As for Texhnolyze itself, I find the pacing and general control of information to be god tier and that accusations of pretentiousness are directed entirely at the first episodes's lack of dialogue and the nihilistic ending to the series.

>anecdotal definition
Get your head out of your ass and into a dictionary, farthuffer.

This.

Who gives a shit you autistic faggot, stop cherrypicking. My point still stands.

So I've watched Haibane, Lain, and Texhnolyze. Is there any Abe stuff worth watching or is that mainly it?

Haibane is easily the deepest of the three, because it didn't even try. It had a relatively simple theme which was explored profoundly, leaving nothing to be desired.

Niea_7

>accusations of pretentiousness are directed entirely at the first episodes's lack of dialogue and the nihilistic ending to the series
Then you're not paying attention to the criticisms, basically putting your fingers into your ears and yelling.

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The domination of society by technology shown in Lain was not prevalent in society in 1997.
I suppose you're going to tell me that tech blurring the lines of what humans consider reality, internet cults and a technologically focused renaissance of spirituality were all rampant in 1997 as well?

>Niea_7
Reminder
youtube.com/watch?v=tHbSXOrmOoQ

>tech blurring the lines of what humans consider reality
Tron, Bladerunner, other cyberpunk.

>internet cults
Pretty sure one notorious cult was using the internet before Lain was made. The cult wasn't about the internet though.

>technologically focused renaissance of spirituality were all rampant
Google cargo cult. Its worship is of technology more primitive than the internet but it still is a similar thing. People creating religions around technology.

>The domination of society by technology shown in Lain was not prevalent in society in 1997.
Nor today
>I suppose you're going to tell me that tech blurring the lines of what humans consider reality,
Not today either, at least in the way Lain presents it
>internet cults and a technologically focused renaissance of spirituality were all rampant in 1997 as well?
Yes

yeap, my goat anime

>this zoomer
Jesus Christ. By 1998 17% of the civilized world used the internet. Internet cults had been around since the 80s, and since usenet.

>tech blurring the lines of what humans consider reality
I must have missed something. Are we at that stage yet? There had already been dozens of scifi movies that addressed this, too.

It's a good show, but maybe you should take a hike and let someone less pretentious have a go, given the topic.

>Then you're not paying attention to the criticisms
Calling something pretentious, particularly off handedly without evidencing why isn't a criticism, it's just hot air.
There's nothing of substance for me to make an argument against, which is why I called it a pretentious act in the first place.

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One of my favorites, I find it strange how Yea Forums openly hates it.
Not to pit it against Lain, but it's even weirder how Yea Forums likes Lain, even though Lain is even slower and more "atmospheric" than Texhnolyze.

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THIS

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Episode 19 is still the best episode of anime I've watched.

It's definitely up there

Probably because Tex doesn't have a cute underage girl to jack off to, discounting the robotic Ran. Also episode 1 is an intentional pleb filter so that alone weeds the retards at the gate

Is that when they finally ascend to the above world? Or was that a few eps beforehand

The first episodes were painfully slow, but so was most of Lain.
When I rewatched Tex, I actually noticed all kinds of amazing details and hints in the first episodes.
The creators even talked about how they made it intentionally slow and painful.

What made Texhnolyze pretentious? I read this whole thread and didn't see really any explanations.

>Is that when they finally ascend to the above world?
Yeah.

Tex literally gets better on every rewatch.

Great taste, then

>Probably because Tex doesn't have a cute underage girl to jack off to
a-user...

It's not. It has the perfect blend of
"pretentious" elements from Lain but with more straightforward parts mixed in.

As the other user said, episode 1 is a pleb filter that lacks dialogue and explanations. Calling it pretentious is a way for simpletards to pretend it's beneath them because they can't into film theory and/or have no patience. They don't have any reasoning because they either didn't watch the show, don't understand it or find it completely incomprehensible because it lacks mainstream appeal.

>pretentious
The word Yea Forums uses when they find something boring, and when they suspect they're too dumb to understand something, and accuse the creators and fans for it.

I wasn't talking to you, I want the other side's arguments.

There aren't any for the reasons I just explained but you can sit here and wait for godot if you want.

>defends his garbage show by saying people just didn't watch it or didn't understand it
>thinking Tex represents film theory in any way and isn't just some braindead Jap director trying to appear smart because he watched some mainstream "artistic" movie and tried to replicate it in his series
Tex uses "film theory" as well as the latest Marvel or DC blockbuster. It isn't artistic, it's schlock trying to get people to perceive it as artistic. Like I've said multiple times, the very definition of pretentious.

So what I'm getting is the word pretentious just means a show doesn't scream "NEVER GIVING UP IS MY MAGIC!!!!" so that the viewer goes "Ah this is about never giving up. This is not pretentious. Damn those shows that don't turn to the screen to tell me 'This is what we're doing' or just happen to explore certain themes in the course of their runtime that provoke some thought in some people "

>people are still using this strawman in this thread because they can't understand why people would dislike their favorite show despite multiple posts stating reasons

Can you go in detail?

You must construct additional arguments.
This is woosh: the post

Attached: Texhnolyze in a nutshell.jpg (704x480, 22K)

It was fun and made an impression. I'm not the film theory guy, but can you cite any TV anime that uses film theory well?

>160 posts later, anti-tex anons are still unable to make a single argument as to why they think tex is pretentious and are only able to state that it is

Not him, Bakemonogatari is the first thing to come to mind, though I think Texh also makes very good use (particularly in transitions) and I don't what angle the other dude's coming at it from.

>Tex uses "film theory" as well as the latest Marvel or DC blockbuster. It isn't artistic, it's schlock trying to get people to perceive it as artistic. Like I've said multiple times, the very definition of pretentious.
Tex [does not use film theory]. It isn't artistic, it's [not art but people view it as art]. [This is] the very definition of pretentious.
Great argument bro.

I'll use this post that replied to me earlier as an example "Big balls mafia turns out to be little fish" is a concept that has been explored many times before. Maybe not in the concept of mafia but in general. This user says this is one of the best parts of the story. I don't remember how much of the series focused on the mafia stuff but it was really really repetitive. The formula from what I remember was following the brooding main character as he acts pissed as he travels around the city, he runs into mafia guys, which then erupts into a mafia battle while the main character is saved in some way. This happens at least 3 times. Then you get more mafia garbage along with the oh so mysterious mustache guy with hidden motives. It's all one massive fucking cliche and you'd be better off watching the Godfather or any number of other mafia movies for a much better experience. The main character gets a mechanical arm which plays almost no purpose from what I remember except to remind you that you're watching a supposedly cyberpunk series. Might tie into some rich vs poor stuff, which again, is nothing but a cliche, but I don't remember exactly. Then the above ground world stuff starts entering the story, which admittedly was interesting, but there was hardly any of it. The sci-fi elements also ramp up for some more cliches, this time of "we'll use technology to save humanity!". Overall 90% of the series is one big cliche and the presentation of the series, the directing, is, like I said, akin to directing a CGDCT series like an arthouse film. It isn't justified for me and clashes with the content and comes off as pseudo-intellectualism. But who am I kidding, I've seen people on Yea Forums call the Godfather an arthouse film so I can't expect Yea Forums to have any idea what it's talking about when it comes to film theory and is impressed by Tex's shallow, surface level "artistry" to distract from how mundane and cliche the actual content is.

Pretentious is an empty buzzword newfags try using to seem smart and cover up their lack of understanding of a show especially when it's not presented in a generic battle shounen style "THE IDEA IS TO NEVER GIVE UP" type of way and avoid arguments.
There's a reason you never see "This show is pretentious" followed by "This other show is 'deep'" cause even people who use that word know how empty it actually is.

Who's defending what. There's been no reason addressing the use of the word "pretentious" . You also know it's meaningless. Don't lie to yourself.

Pretentious and deep is a false dichotomy. You don't have to be deep to not be pretentious. K-ON isn't deep and it also isn't pretentious. If K-ON was directed as if it was a Tarkovsky movie, that would be pretentious though.

watching texhnolyze made me irrationally annoyed at the show. at one point one of the characters says something like "what have we been fighting for?", and i thought "what have i been watching for?" everyone is unlikeable, the plot is some factions fighting some other factions that i no longer remember or even understood at the time, and the whole thing felt utterly pointless to me, and not even in a fun way.

What makes them cliche?

>The formula from what I remember was following the brooding main character as he acts pissed as he travels around the city, he runs into mafia guys, which then erupts into a mafia battle while the main character is saved in some way. This happens at least 3 times.
It happens once. If you cut away the part where it erupts into a battle it becomes twice and if you cut away the part where he's pissed and gets saved it becomes 3 times but it's kind of irrelevant at that point.

>It's all one massive fucking cliche
Tropes are not bad and exist for a reason

>The main character gets a mechanical arm which plays almost no purpose from what I remember except to remind you that you're watching a supposedly cyberpunk series.
Oh yeah, the texhnolyzed limbs were completely tacked on the story for no reason. What the fuck are you smoking?

>Overall 90% of the series is one big cliche and the presentation of the series, the directing, is, like I said, akin to directing a CGDCT series like an arthouse film. It isn't justified for me and clashes with the content
It looks gritty and tells a gritty story, where's the clash?

>and comes off as pseudo-intellectualism
That's just projection

There's nothing pretentious there. It would have just been directed in that style or are you suggesting that there's some type of "OMG sho shmart" type of direction you perceive to be so then call stuff "preTeNTiOuS" based off of that?
Please explain how that's not retarded user

Interesting anti-art sentiment. Why would directing K-ON like a Tarkovsky film make it pretentious?

>It looks gritty and tells a gritty story, where's the clash?
Gritty and artistic are not the same thing. Grindhouse movies were also gritty but the directors of those didn't pretend to be arthouse directors because they were aware that their movies were pure schlock.

Certain styles or methods of directing are used to communicate certain things. If your movie or TV series has nothing to communicate or what it's communicating is shallow and substanceless then you introduce a clash between the content and the directing which communicates that you have nothing important to say but you want your movie or TV series to be seen as artistic and/or having substance. This is the dictionary definition of pretentious.

It's so stooped in philosophy and metaphors that it ultimate becomes a deterrent for the average anime viewer.

The final few episodes are so existential and then you're hit with that ending... I had to watch K-ON afterwards to ease the pain.

>The domination of society by technology shown in Lain was not prevalent in society in 1997
From wikipedia:
>The dot-com bubble (also known as the dot-com boom,[1] the tech bubble,[2] and the Internet bubble) was a historic speculative bubble and period of excessive speculation mainly in the United States that occurred roughly from 1994 to 2000
>1994 to 2000
Keep in mind this was the bubble that was slow to react. My dad was shitposting on BBSs way before then.
If you were a nerd or had an iq above room temperature and at least halfway paid attention to the world the internet and how it was going to change the world was old news by 97. At that point they were trying to simplify it so grandma and normalfags could use it.

Boogiepop is great as well.

>Gritty and artistic are not the same thing.
Define artistic. By my understanding of the word, "gritty" is an artistic aesthetic.

>Grindhouse movies were also gritty but the directors of those didn't pretend to be arthouse directors because they were aware that their movies were pure schlock.
Are you suggesting that you're not allowed to make things with certain sensibilities if it isn't deep, otherwise it's bad because pretension?

Oh, you're one of those 'the show isn't good if I can't like the characters' kind of dullards. This show wasn't for you, if your criteria is that narrow-minded.

You're allowed to, you're just making something feigning substance or depth that the product doesn't have. IE something pretentious. Doing this can be used for certain effects. To go back to K-ON there are several instances of the directing style changing to give off a certain effect. It's usually for comedic value though rather than any projection of depth or substance. It's relying on people seeing the clash and thinking it's funny.

I didn't get it. I think I'm too dumb for this anime, but I actually didn't find it that amazing. Direction was great, both visually and musically, and the characters were interesting, but I couldn't see what is so great in that anime.
I really tried and I'm not baiting, please enlighten me.

You're actually asserting certain styles of directing to be pretentious as opposed to judging the work on it's own merits.
Just for fun, the oxford dictionary definition of pretentious is "Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed".
I would absolutely say that you are guilty of being pretentious by asserting not only that tex is pretentious for using an "artistic" style (as opposed to what, a commercial style?) but also because you're judging the work on its style before its substance and then asserting that it has no substance.

>You're allowed to, you're just making something feigning substance or depth that the product doesn't have.
How can an aesthetic feign depth? That's meaning you've attributed to it, pulled straight from your ass.

>To go back to K-ON there are several instances of the directing style changing to give off a certain effect. It's usually for comedic value though rather than any projection of depth or substance. It's relying on people seeing the clash and thinking it's funny.
K-On also has a number of environment shots, slow downs for characters to contemplate things (think Yui in the episode where they work to buy her a guitar) and off-center, unusual closeups (on the arms, legs etc.) which wouldn't be out of place in a Tarkovsky film. Is the show pretentious in those moments?

I pointed out in some reasons why I think Tex has no substance. My whole argument is

1. Tex has little or no substance
2. Tex is directed in an obtuse way, clashing with its substance or lack of substance
3. Therefore Tex is pretentious

Tex was literally loved for years by Yea Forums. It was impossible to criticize the show because retarded morons masturbated over its deep thematics and shit.

I was one of the first to actually openly dislike this shit because it is so shit and I was lambasted. Now I'm vindicated. Feel good to have good taste.

So you're an elite shitposter who made Yea Forums the dump it is today.
Surely you're proud of your shit stacking achievements.

My all time favourite

>some reasons why I think Tex has no substance. My whole argument is
>1. Tex has little or no substance
Literally begging the question holy shit
>2. Tex is directed in an obtuse way, clashing with its substance or lack of substance
We get it, you hate styles of directing that aren't heavily commercialised for widespread appeal.
>3. Therefore Tex is pretentious
Pathetic
As for your "critique" of the mafia aspects of the show, you've conveniently ignored all of the major themes of the show to pretend that it has no substance. No mention of the loss of humanity from texhnolyze or shapes. No mention of existential ennui which is the key theme of the whole series and the main focus of the "above ground stuff" you praised. You've reduced the other factions to being mafia when the salvation union are a humanist cult vying to keep humanity pure and a pretty key exploration of the cyberpunk elements you take purely for aesthetic.
I'd love to pretend that Texhnolyze is 2deep4u but it's dead fucking simple and you resort to calling it pretentious just because it takes itself seriously and presents itself in a unique style.

This is not a story about mafias. In fact the only organization that can be called a mafia is Organo, all the other ones are clearly a different kind of organization. The mafia shit is not the focal point of the show, and even when the story does follow Organo it's never meant to be like the Godfather where it explores that entire world.
>Might tie into some rich vs poor stuff, which again, is nothing but a cliche
>The sci-fi elements also ramp up for some more cliches, this time of "we'll use technology to save humanity!"
Were you watching Tex at all? Because it never makes these points.

Why are you arguing with a retard?

I'm bored of playing League of Legends and have nothing better to do whilst I torrent BR2049

>We get it, you hate styles of directing that aren't heavily commercialised for widespread appeal.
No, I hate substanceless schlock trying to appeal intellectual by aping film techniques it has no business using because they're just using them for the "aesthetic" rather than for any good reason.

>unique style
It's in no way unique. There are hundreds of films that do everything that Tex does, and that aren't braindead, cliche-ridden garbage. For someone trying to argue that I'm the one that can only watch "commercialised" things you sound like you've never watched a non-anime film in your life, let alone one that actually does things in a unique way.

I don't care what you call them. For not being the focal point of the show they're given way too much prominence.

Agreed.

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That's not Lose Loose Bounds.

You're right, it's not. Just kidding user, you have good taste.

Tex honestly beats out Cowboy Bebop for my favorite anime OST.

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Pfft lul, great job being completely unable to respond to the rest of my post.
You watched Tarkovsky once and now you think you know cinema, congrats.
Feel free to link your youtube video essays so I can laugh at them.

>Dropped Lain
>Dropped Habane
I dont think I have ever been able to finish ABEs work. They start too slow and never get a decent pace. The animation, sound and character design is always top notch but the story isnt enough too keep one interested

Shame really

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>There are hundreds of films that do everything that Tex does, and that aren't braindead, cliche-ridden garbage.
If they do everything that Texh does, and Texh is cliche-ridden, then they too are cliche-ridden, never mind the fact that cliches are not a bad thing.

Haibane is ABe's only work. Not sure why everyone acts like his character designs are a stamp of ownership, but it's kind of hilarious to think of Lain and Rerided being attributed to the same person.

Maybe it's just not your cup of tea.

>attacking my credibility (without any actual knowledge of my tastes or what I've seen) instead of my arguments

Was referring to the style, mostly of the directing, which is what I thought we were talking about. Also Niea_7 is based on a manga Abe wrote, so it's also an actual work by him instead of just something he did character designs for.

This is the longest purely Texhnolyze thread that I've ever been in. Ran is cute.

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>Niea_7 is based on a manga Abe wrote, so it's also an actual work by him instead of just something he did character designs for.
Oh yeah forgot about that

What problems did you have with Haibane? I can understand having issues with Lain since it jumps all over the place but Haibane Renmei is pretty grounded and goes from one thing to another pretty coherently.

Not enough angel butts.

It's a shame most of the thread is just arguing about how pretentious the show is or isn't.

This is never gonna end if all you schmucks do is toss surface level theory and comparisons at each other. Name dropping another director, film, or school of art doesn't mean shit when you're not providing anything tangible but are expecting the other person to able to make the connections that you have in your head.

I can't think of another anime where the OST fits in such a perfect, natural way with the show's general atmosphere and visuals.
NGE perhaps, but it wasn't as striking.

What the FUCK was his problem?

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Technoloyze is the most chuuni adolescent edge shit ever. dropped after 1 ep.

Slave morality. If Nietzche taught us anything is that our discussions will fall on deaf ears and sound like ramblings to those uncultured. The world is full of slaves and, logically, Yea Forums is too. No reason to lose sleep over it.

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I've seen 3 reach bump limit in the past year i think

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Impressive. Most ABe threads I've seen hit bump limit have been either Haibane or just his work in general.

I got the point where there were 4 episodes left and I wasnt interested in it anymore

Not very subtle. Be a bit less obvious.

He had three moms

At first I thought you were talking about Texhnolyze, and was about to get very mad.

Yeah, it starts slow and gets slower, i found it to be pretty boring too. The ending was quite good but most of the series felt directionless and everyone but Reki was a total NPC whose emotional responses had no correlation to my own

Lain is better because it actually has an HD BD. Texhnolyze is forever stuck in horrid early-digital era SD.

Aesthetic isn't a good reason?

He's just a pleb.
Aesthetic is always the best reason. The most important thing, especially in a visual medium, is to be aesthetically interesting and pleasing.

You really didn't get the show at all, did you?

>"Big balls mafia turns out to be little fish" is a concept that has been explored many times before.
The Organo aren't just another mob, they're actually the closest thing to a legitimate government Lux has. The "true" rulers of Lux, the Class, are very laissez-faire with how things are run outside of their circle and relegate the business of actually running things to the Organo.
>I don't remember how much of the series focused on the mafia stuff but it was really really repetitive.
Perhaps you should rewatch the series, so you could actually form proper arguments over the material instead of what you falsely remember about it..
>The formula from what I remember was following the brooding main character as he acts pissed as he travels around the city, he runs into mafia guys, which then erupts into a mafia battle while the main character is saved in some way.
That's not at all what happens. The first time, Ichise punches a powerful woman, and the woman calls the Organo in to punish him. The second time the Organo are there to bring him in, but Ichise attacks them and in response is thrown into the sewers. The third time Ichise finds the guy who threw him into the sewer, nearly kills him, but is ambushed and finally taken into custody.
>Then you get more mafia garbage
The Organo are trying to keep the city from falling apart as the anti-prosthetic ideological group, the Union, grow increasingly violent and are disrupting what little order they've instilled. They at first try to do so peacefully, because a war between the two factions is in no one's best interest and would only destabilize the city even further.
>along with the oh so mysterious mustache guy with hidden motives.
Yoshii is there from the very beginning, and at first presents himself as an eccentric tourist. Only in episode 7 does he first do something out of aggression, and he explicitly states his motives that same episode.

> It's all one massive fucking cliche and you'd be better off watching the Godfather or any number of other mafia movies for a much better experience.
You've completely misunderstood everything up to this point, and failed to actually argue how any of your misconstrued notions of the characters and plot points is a cliche. Please cite examples of other works.
>The main character gets a mechanical arm which plays almost no purpose from what I remember except to remind you that you're watching a supposedly cyberpunk series.
The technology behind those prosthetics is the very basis of why Lux even exists, and almost every single major character has a prosthetic regardless of social class. The young outcast ruffians have them, the Organo has them, even the head of the anti-prosthetic Union has one (which is why he formed the Union in the first place).
>Might tie into some rich vs poor stuff, which again, is nothing but a cliche,
It actually doesn't. It ties into transhumanism, which first pops up when Ichise gets his new limbs, is reaffirmed by the Theonormals on the surface who have no need for prosthetics as they focus on immortal consciousness, and climaxes with the Shapes invading and subsequently rooting themselves and their immortal bodies into the ground.
>but I don't remember exactly.
Please rewatch the show if you're going to keep making arguments, especially since all your statements regarding its plot are completely incorrect.
>Then the above ground world stuff starts entering the story, which admittedly was interesting, but there was hardly any of it.
The outside world has been present since the very beginning, with Yoshii literally descending from the outside into Lux. The prosthetics used widely within Lux are only possible thanks to a unique mineral found in the city, and that mineral was the stated reason why people from the surface originally founded Lux. Even during the show's events Lux is still shipping the stuff to the surface.

>The sci-fi elements also ramp up for some more cliches, this time of "we'll use technology to save humanity!"
Again, transhumanism is an overarching theme throughout the show. It's even in the first episode, with the woman Ichise attacked having a robotic arm, Onishi's augmented eyesight and flashbacks of his operation being shown, along with Ichise coming across a sewer full of discarded prosthetics prior to getting his arm and leg chopped off.
>Overall 90% of the series is one big cliche
All you've proven with your argument is that you don't even remember what happened, and that you missed quite a lot of things that were explicitly stated.
>and the presentation of the series, the directing, is, like I said, akin to directing a CGDCT series like an arthouse film.
The directing fits the actual plot and substance of the show, not the version your half-forgotten recollections have conjured up.
>It isn't justified for me and clashes with the content and comes off as pseudo-intellectualism
>psuedo-intellectual
>Webster: (noun) a person who wants to be thought of as having a lot of intelligence and knowledge but who is not really intelligent or knowledgeable
>Oxford: (adjective) Spuriously intellectual; falsely supposed or purporting to be intellectual; (hence) intellectually pretentious or affected.
By those definitions the only pseudo-intellectual here is you, because you have absolutely no knowledge about the material you're arguing against.

>im the superman, bro

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Muh grain filter
Might be an excuse, but when you look at how Shigurui's visual effects fared, I don't think it translates well to a higher definition.

gottem

I already decimated your arguments, you are just a laughing stock

>Muh grain filter
What? Take a look at something like Haibane Renmei, which was drawn digitally at a low resolution and as such the BD is an awful upscale.

That's what I'm sayin'

Should I watch Haibane if I liked both Lain and Texhnolyze?

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Yes. I regret putting it off for so long.

Since you posted one of my waifu's friends, I'll say yes.

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>I find it strange how Yea Forums openly hates it.
There are a lot of reasons user, but after watching it I think the main one is that Tex is such fucking garbage.

>not a new IP

dropped it on episode 10, boring shit that makes no sense

What didn't make sense?

what's her power?

Haibane, Tex and Mushishi are the holy trinity of comfy that makes you think.

>comfy
uh, what

>Texh
>Comfy
I love the show but come on.

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Texh made me think "Jesus Christ why haven't I dropped this shit already".

It really is, even the "depressing" ending. I'd call the ending beautiful even but that's because I understand it in a different way than most.And I think you can reach that conclusion by really analyzing what's going on watching it at least two times.

How's that make it comfy.

>Blu-Ray never ever
I would attach myself to a Shape body for a damn Tex BD.

Comfy is a fag word for relaxing.

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>Texhnolysnooze
>better than an actual deep psychological series

yea, like kaiba

>having ADHD

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bake does not use any form of sophisticated film theory. Unless you find basic framing techniques sophisticated, it's also not particularly clever, or subtle with it. And often bends the enviroments overtly in unnatural ways to fit it's schemes. Camon man

You should give this a read:
academia.edu/1535011/Rethinking_animation_through_linguistics_Exploring_the_correlation_between_layers_of_animation_s_multiplanar_image

I am not jumping through the hoops to download it. But Bake's technique is not as sophisticated as you claimed.

you don't have to download it, just scroll down
i didn't make a judgement on its sophistication, i just commented that it was the first thing to come to mind for good use of film theory

Sure 'good' film theory, but compared to almost any other work it does not have the same allowance to explore and execute. It's masturbatory in it's approach and fits to compensate what's most commonly a slow dialogue.

Bake is a poor example for this reason. It's too centered on cinematography as a compensating mechanism. Granted it does have several impressive sections, that are probably better than anything else. But it's extremely in your face about it's execution which doesn't instantaneously scream good ass much as it is screaming as a whole

Also don't self promote, Reading through an entire paper on Bake is a little trying of patience

I didn't write it, just thought it was a good read on the topic. I don't even know who "Guan van Zoggel" is.

no, you just found an obscure paper on bakemonogatari from an unkown media studiess grad from some german university. My my, I didn't realize you were so invested and thirsty for academic papers on anime

user, stop being such a dismissive faggot and actually argue with the guy.

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>no, you just found an obscure paper on bakemonogatari from an unkown media studiess grad from some german university.
Did I ever claim otherwise?
>My my, I didn't realize you were so invested and thirsty for academic papers on anime
I actually am. For something directly relevant to the thread, did you ever read the harvard student thesis on Texhnolyze before it got taken down?

Go back to your containment website lainfags
>>>/lainchan/

There will never be an anime like lain or texhn again
ABe is old
Anime industry has irrevesibly changed
There won't be a paranoia agent, ergo proxy, lain, haibane renmai, texhnolyze or similar ever again

My dad is ABe and he says Despera starts in 2021.

We wouldn't have gotten it before either. The era from Evangelion to 3.11 is and always will be an outlier for TV anime.

I wish Hamasaki would be attached to direct another series of the same caliber as S;G or Texh.

Made in Abyss?

Nothing like any of them

generic hereo's journey, doesn't compare

Anime that at least tries to be serious is dead
1999-2009 RIP

I think Konaka said he wanted to work with him again at some point.

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I think your definition for serious anime is much too strict and obtuse.
Big if true.

Hold fast to hope, and do not despair in the darkness of the longest night.

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Manga adaption, doesn't count!

You want me to argue after a recent rewatch on bake for texhnolyze after not seeing the show for years. These two are some of my favourites in the entire genre, and you want me to argue against this fag who reads papers on the cinematography of bake?

Fuck off with that shit. I am not trashing either of the shows I love for some internet shit show. But I will say that you can dig extra information and extra layers into god damn anything. Blue curtains meme being a good example. Butt fuck it, I think Bake's usage of cinematography draws the most pretentious crowds because it's' specificly something offten left vague and nebulous which as a result draws a large and annoying following. It's like eva and religious mythos infusion but for the cinema fags instead of narrative fags this time around.

And I say this with all the love in the world for Bake

You can analyze any piece of art to infer anything, yes, but Bakemonogatari has direct allusions to film. In particular the French New Wave. The techniques used are used to similar effect; to illicit the same sense or feeling. The pathos of that is usually overt and not always used to say anything truly thoughtful or emotional. Many times it's a gag, a nod of acknowledgement or self parody. Regardless, the use of film theory is clear in its inspiration. Good or not, it's there.

Yes because how dare interpret a piece of art that might undermine it in some way.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Dead_Cow

I dropped it after 4 episodes can someone explain what's supposed to be good about it?
4 episodes of slow, long winded suffering with no substance. It's intentionally shit, wow so clever.
It basically felt like Eva 3.0

you got pleb filtered, watch until the end there's enough substance where U/ACC hacks on Yea Forums can make whole threads about how texh is an extremely good example of Nick Land anti-humanist accelerationism

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Yoshii

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