Clear up Death Note for me

L is forced to work under the assumption that Kira is a human since if hes not L wont be able to catch him anyway.

They already go with the assumption that Kira is human and isn't omniscient nor omnipotent because L outright does not believe in such a thing.

Yeah it became a huge shock to him when it was revealed they were real if I recall.

My question is if Ryuk got the extra time for all the killings or if it went to the original death god who first owned the note.

He was right in a sense, Kira was not God, he did have a magic book though.
And despite that L still managed to corner Kira in like the first episodes with such an ease even his autistic ass had to express emotion.
Despite what buttpained kids think about the finale I think it is appropriate for a pompous bastard like Light, the only reason he got away with it for so long was because he was cheating so in the end they cheated as well and executed his face disregarding law.

It doesn't? I thought the note would belong to whoever picked it up, so if a human picks it up, he/she owns it and no time is added for each kill because that only applies to death gods.

It could have been a group of people does he rule that out? It's been over a decade since I watched it.

>because L already assumes it is a person
>He jsut knows,

Make up your mind. He also told why, he found out Light's first victim was the kindergarten kidnapper and how it was an awfully specific victim. Light's killing routine also resembled human behavior of a Japanese high-schooler. This doesn't mean that L was ever truly dead set on Kira being human (not until he starts to get acquainted with Light), he's costantly second guessing himself and ironing out several theories at once and proving them wrong in his brain.

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How many pages did the Death Note start with? How many pages were left after Light's been using it for years?

A Death Note can create pages out of nothing and I assume that the binding adapts. Magic notebook, ain't gonna explain shit.

He try to challenge kira, it just a gamble. If in fact kira really is omnipotent he can just kill L on the spot but when he kill fake L that just prove it that the killer is in that area and he must know the person face and name to somehow kill them. Because the fake L doesn't use his real name and not the same face.

if kira is literally a god there was nothing they could do. the investigation was done on the assumption kira wasn't a god.

>If Kira is omniscient/a god
Your answer is right there.
They are assuming that Kira is a human being running on some form of conventional logic if supernatural.
If they assumed he was an all knowing God they wouldn't have even bothered going up against him anyway.

L is never wrong though. he "just knows"

You assume that their assumption of Kira being a human is a plothole, but that's because you know that supernatural beings exist in the show.
No one is realistically going to think that an actual god is doing shit.

>No one is realistically going to think that an actual god is doing shit.
it isnt realistic to think a person can kill with godlike ability either

>wants a just world
>targets the lowest dregs of society
>not capitalist masters enslaving and genociding the poor masses

for such a smart guy, light sure was red pilled

He got tricked at least 4 times, what are you talking about?

Later on, after meeting. At that point he already knows who kira is

Elaborate in English please.

if they thought kira was a god then any meaning of catching him would fail.
They simply assumed that he wasn't.
If he was a god it would simply not matter.

All his pure assumptions about kira are correct.

Well he had a good hunch

>they simply assumed
>but it ended being right
Exactly, there was no reason for any assumption

Like when he thought Kira wanted to genuinely write him a message and then he used that to btfo the FBI task force which cost relatively dear to L's usual way of investigating?

His assumptions aren't "pure", they're based on very solid analysis and pieces of evidence. Mind telling me what assumptions are supposed to be asspulls?

Yeah, they should assume a dog was doing it, retard.

why would they assume that Kira is a god and not just a human killing through unknown means? If he was a god he wouldn't need published names and faces to kill

What makes you think there isnt a death note for dogs?

Well, he later says Kira reminded him of himself, Naomi Misora later corroborated on this. With a good psychological profile you can assume a lot of things and be right.

Lots of the decisions L makes only make sense because the Death Note exists. It'd be like a Detective that was sent into a city to investigate a series of murders tell all Police to start carrying silver bullets with them...then it turns out the culprit is a werewolf.

1) Kira is Japanese (or knows/lives in Japan)
2) Kira pays attention to TV/public perception
3) Kira is egomaniac with a strong sense of justice (ego leads the sense of justice). L directly provokes Kira's ego by presenting an presumably innocent person instead of a criminal on screen.
4) Kira kills people via face/name information, and can't kill people Kira doesn't know
5) Kira lacks the absolute information (cant' read mind/not omniscience) and thus relies on seemingly public information
6) Kira lives in certain regions of the Japan (since the broadcast was supposed to be done in different regions of Japan at different times)

Then there are multiple ways L tries to hone in by understanding how Kira gains the information and concludes Kida has access to police database. This then leads to narrowing down connections to the police itself and so on.

>evidence
Lmao, the whole point of the death note is there is no evidence. There is literally, no forensic evidence.

Ofc its "good profiling", he was always right. But its entirely intuition, not deduction.

How would the dog write on it?

>If Kira is omniscient/a god, it being regional would not matter.
if he was an omniscient god, the broadcast in general wouldnt matter at all
and he wouldnt have killed the fake

Saliva

>That could totally work, though I'm not sure if that was ever explained?
Not that I remember. I had an idea that while it couldn't confirm the exact limits, L was willing to risk his life to use it as a bluff against Kira, under the assumption that Kira doesn't have omniscient killing power.

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>forensic evidence meme

Fuck all the way off with that bullshit, profiling is still evidence if very limited and can help work towards identifying prime suspects. He deducted he was a Japanese from his first victim in recent times which had its reportage contained to the Kanto region, he deducted his need for a police database to identify some of his more outrageous killings based on criminals too dated to find public info online, and his killing pattern based around the afternoon/evening and whole day on weekends made him deduce it was the work of an unemployed high-schooler (this was way before his public recognition).

It's only when he was btfo on TV that Light chose to focus on Japanese criminals just to say "fuck yeah I'm in Japan can you catch me motherfucker".

>who needs forensic evidence in murder cases
Lmao. How do you even know its a murder case u fag.

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Then why start investigating at all you humongous faggot. Desperate criminals call for desperate, unconventional measures.

Its not a murder case until the TV. Until then, people didn't understand what was going on. A series of pattern was happening but no apparent murderer. That's why L was called in as a detective to explain this mystery. L is considered a genius detective and his methods are unorthodox, so L wanted to play a little game to confirm his suspicion that it might be "magic." Yes even L didn't want to admit it but it was worth a shot and would cost nothing to L if it was the case.

Sherlock Holmes deductive reasoning goes something like this: "When all impossibles are eliminated, whatever remains, and however improbable, must be the truth. " Thus when L has eliminated the standard direct/physical murder or even means of poison/sniper/etc, what remained was "magic" even though it was "impossible."

L didn't know how the murder happened but he never assumed it was a god. Also if it was a god, he would have just killed L anyways from the moment he tried to track down Kira, and L knew that.

The thing is, Light's own arrogance ended up confirming L's hypothesis anyway. L wasn't ruling anything out from the start, he was just following a line of inquiry. If Light had shown some restraint or gone quiet for a while and then reappeared with a different MO, he could have thrown L off his trail, and L might have been forced to try a different approach. But everything he did just left clues for L to follow, so L's first guess ended up being the only one he needed.

Retard

Mashed potato

It was luck it worked on the first time, it was a gamble and a character test which L didn't lose much for attempting but didn't exactly gain much either.

L was working under the assumption Kira was human the entire time
He went into a catatonic state when he considered that shinigami may actually exist and be involved later in the show

by that point L already knew many things about Kira due to the deaths of the previous known victims. Among other which is that Kira needs a name and face. And Kira gets those name and faces from public information, meaning tv, internet, newspaper etc.
Thus, his dummy being killed in the first broadcast wouldn't be a problem at all, after all he used the same means that he knows Kira is limited to.

1) L didn't believe there were any gods, let alone Kira being one, until way later in the series.
2) If Kira were a god, L would've died when he said, "now try to kill me!"
3) You didn't figure out the previous two because you're stupid.

with gravy

Thats why I always wanted an adaption that just took the idea of death note and dropped the characters for new ones and a new story just brought the fact that the death note can kill people into the mix. I feel trying to adapt the original story is boring enough we've seen it a million times and the story isn't even that good. I'd love to see someone take the idea to new heights.

Because if Kira was, stopping him would have been impossible. And why would an omniscient Kira need the broadcast to kill the fake L and not just kill the real L and other people on the investigation team, or if he’s a god, ignore the investigation since they wouldn’t be able to find and/or stop him. And L already believes Kira is a human, not a god, he’s willing to believe in the supernatural TO AN EXTENT, at least when all other logical explanations fail, but there are still limits to what he can accept without additional proof.

L already knew Kira isn't omniscient precisely because there were still criminals alive in prison like the one he used to bait, it meant even Kira doesn't have access to some info.

Read this.
>gwern.net/Death-Note-Anonymity

It's also important to consider that everything else aside, there's a fundamental reason to not assume Kira is an all knowing ethereal god beyond human observation and reach: it's just pointless. If that's true, then any sort of investigation or line of thought has no real point. If you want to even attempt some sort of opposition or inquiry, you must proceed under the assumption they're just a mortal with a special power because then if that is true you can at least do something. Much like general scientific inquiry, even though we can now objectively call into question the idea of linear cause and effect, it is best to assume such inherent, immutable rules exist because it's more useful for the investigative process.

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>If Kira is omniscient/a god, it being regional would not matter
If Kira is moniscient/a god, Kira would know it was a ruse.

The plan working out confirmed Kira was a person with access to some remote way of killing.

when dealing with the supernatural, there is no such thing as impossible.
how L can make deductive reasoning on a method of killing he knows nothing about and can assume nothing is just an asspull

There are known methods of killing, as I said before. With guns, with poisons, with strangulations, with vehicles, with knives, with drowning, and so on. The government knows a series of deaths are occurring with no apparent murder method. What's left? "Its almost like God is killing bad people" That's what general population starts to believe. No one buys this because God obviously doesn't exist to any intellectuals. What does exist is some invisible way to kill people. So L tests this hypothesis on TV. L saying "its supernatural" is just his own delusion taken to the nth degree. Of course there's no evidence the TV death is supernatural. What happened could be explained by something invisible happening again or even coincidence. So L has the choice of saying "oh its just a coincidence" or "oh its still just an invisible thing." But rather than that, he goes with what he believes is some "magic" way to kill. L doesn't know about it, so it can't be based on deductive reasoning. So what is it? Inductive reasoning.

>when dealing with the supernatural, there is no such thing as impossible
Of course there is. There's no supernatural system on earth that admits all things are possible. Every one of them has some sort of logic, no matter how alien, to how things supposedly occur. Admitting something unknown to modern humans must be killing criminals with heart attacks does not necessarily lead into any and every conceivable super natural idea.

The point of logical inquiry is to try and make as few unreasonable assumptions as possible. You assume something is killing criminals with heart attacks somehow. It does not follow that it must involve some other crazy supernatural circumstances that aren't directly linked to that. More importantly, it's not useful. If you want to figure out what's going on, you need to focus on what you know. That's why L focuses on strictly what has been observed and then begins experimenting from that. Sure, it could just be some crazy god fucking with everyone, acting indistinguishable from an ordinary human with constrained knowledge. But if such an explanation results in observations that are exactly the same as those you might expect from a more mundane explanation and series of events, then it's a pointless thought to entertain. Might as well argue there's a demon that's always hiding just out of sight always, and never does anything that makes any evidence of its presence known. It's an impossible to falsify supposition.

The entire theme of Death Note is about how ultimately mundane the Death Notes are. Their power in beyond human comprehension, they can do crazy shit, but they still fundamentally operate on testable and repeatable rules. There are certain things you simply cannot do with a Death Note and certain laws even Shinigami not only must follow, but can't even truly break without immediately dying themselves.

>inductive reasoning
this is a mechanism that falls somewhere between clever outmaneuvering and pure asspull. in Ls case, its asspulls, because he is never wrong.

>You assume something is killing criminals with heart attacks
>you need to focus on what you know
one precludes the other. to make one assumption and not another is more or less arbitrary.

He took quite the risk knowing there’s someone who can create instant heart attacks....

>he is never wrong
He was fooled into thinking Raito wasn't Kira. It cost him his life. Also inductive reasoning is not always right, but with careful analysis, you can get a general idea of what is right/wrong from string of informations. People make inductive reasoning all the time to their advantage. You're posting on Yea Forums, therefore you're likely a social outside. It maybe true or it maybe not, but chances are you are otherwise you'd be on facebook/instagram/twitter being a nigger.

If he happened to be wrong, it simply would be another story. Like there's a super-powered werewolf vigilante that seeks criminals. Or he has code geass to do it. Or he's an unreachable god but then the story would already be over. Either way it's hard to assume anything other than magic given the premise of invisible heart attacks.

>redditspacing

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Hes only wrong at the end, when the narrative requires him to die. He isnt wrong a single time before meeting kira in person

>its hard to assume anything other than magic given a string of heart attacks
T. Spanish inquisition

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Its not very hard to be wrong when your conclusions are very general and not completely sure of yourself. L was never certain and only had suspicions.

then explain what else could be the cause of that crime stuff if not magic, Sherlock Holmes user

If Kira was truly as godlike as the worst possible scenario could be, then he really has nothing to lose.

I dunno user, heart attacks never happen on their own do they

FOXDIE

L figures out that Kira is a human because he only kills certain criminals that he knows of that are not being kept secret by the government and only at specific hours outside of school hours.
L broadcasts this in one outside school hours in hope that he might get Kira.
Light takes the bait like a moron.
L tests to see if Kira can kill people he doesn't know the identity of. Finds out he can't.
Light still should be impossible to catch at this point, but he gets caught as a moron anyway.

>a plot hole
>a

This. In addition, most of Kira's early killings were only in Japan. L noticed this, and set up the broadcast in the most populous region, which worked.

Do people just not pay attention

They had already come to the conclusion that because the first recorded victim was shown locally, Kira was testing his power before moving on to more serious targets, implying that he was mortal and that he had recently obtained the power. The logical flaw here was that they didn't run the test in other areas, since if Kira was mortal but he had an omniscient weapon (like Ryuk), it wouldn't matter at all where they showed it first.

>>not capitalist masters enslaving and genociding the poor masses
I guess he wasn't a redditor.

I've always thought that Near's assistant stealing, rewriting the entire death note in 1:1 detail and then putting it back in a single night is just way over the top even for part 2 when things started to go off the rails.

L ignored no-win scenarios from the beginning.

If a being like Ryuk was just going on a killing spree, there was little to nothing that L could actually do about it, so he started with the assumption that he's a threat that can be tackled.

Which is where he draws a lot of his initial assumptions: The being is awake at this time. The being has access to information on those killed.

A few good ones coming off of that: The being is playing or testing his power (Since he didn't just start with the mass slaughter of criminals), The being picked a convenient target. He picked criminals specifically, so he thinks he's taking out the trash or some kinda hero.

When he's got all these ideas, he starts with the simplest test: Let's see if he's local to the initial killings and if he'd kill to keep his secret.

I completely agree. I'm just saying that it's a logical flaw to rule out the possibility that Kira could see the local broadcast even if he didn't live there. A more thorough option would be to test it in a less likely place first, so that way L would be able to rule out omniscience and group coordination entirely.

At the time of writing, that wasn't really possible. News was actually local because it was broadcast by radio.

It's canon he dealt with the supernatural before, in that novel about the Los Angeles BB Murder case he and Naomi encounter someone with shinigami eyes who can tell people's names and death dates just by looking at them. It's also why he accepted the 2nd kira being able to do this so easily.

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If Kira was a group effort, the head (Light) could collect a kill list via email, fax, etc. That way he could pretend to operate in one location just to piss off the investigators. And it doesn't put him at any risk at all, since he could have any random person on the internet operate for him. L didn't consider this, being too sure in Occam's razor, while if he was more thoughtful he would have double checked his hypothesis. Had Light been less egotistical (or just more cautious), the plot of Death Note would have ended before it began.

It confirms what he suspected, L actually managed to find the first death note victim and speculated kira wasn't ominiscient, so he made a transmission in that region

m.youtube.com/watch?v=qq6yY-1w5FA

His line of tought was probably like this: if kira is a god, why didn't he kill the criminal before the television showed his face and name? Why did he kill this specific guy whose crime was only transmited in the kanto region? Why at this hour? Etc.

I suggest you read the manga, it's more detailed

> If Kira had killed on the second broadcast and not the first, it would be clear that Kira missed the first broadcast giving away a limitation/weakness.

Or maybe, the god was just playing with the detective since he's omniscient, but that line of thinking is unproductive and futile isn't it? (see the wine game in the princess bride)

The problem with your thinking is that you (and people in general, the system doesn't want you to learn the "classical education") use deduction and induction as the basis of your thinking, whereas light and lawliet use abductive reasoning/via negativa/apophasis/etc.

> How does being killed on the first broadcast actually reveal anything at all?

It matches the first victim pattern, increasing the likelihood of the hypothesis of kira being in kanto

The problem with that is that the larger the Kira network gets, the easier it is to target. The whole reason L survives as long as he does after getting "made" in the first move is that he's a single man in a prefecture.

Granted, the real reason L's guess works is because Light's personality and because the story that they wanted was about cat and mouse, not about 4-18 months of infiltrating a death-cult.

> If Kira was a group effort, the head (Light) could collect a kill list via email, fax, etc. That way he could pretend to operate in one location just to piss off the investigators

If the dummy dies this still says kira is in that region directly or not (meaning someone that has some contact with kira is there, but that's not the only information it gives)

Why would a god have any interest in saving us.Is not that hard to come up that its a human with supernatural means of killing.

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This.

He was never wrong, he just didn't have the evidence, in the manga L makes Light say that he was kira before his voluntary imprisonment and that the whole higuchi arc was his plan

You can target the network, but Kira himself would never be at risk so long as he focused on non-local areas, meaning that L could at best only bring a stalemate.
But the proxy doesn't necessarily have to know what the game is about. For example, you could have somebody operate a Kira hitlist blog, while having no direct connection at all. Kira could look at this, and L would have no way to discern his identity. The most L could take from this is that Kira is crowdsourcing, and that's if he was able to find the list to begin with.

That's still a vector: You can find out who was accessing the blog before the kills; Who shows up after an update, so on and so forth.

Not to mention this brings us to the most salient point:

Kira does not need to be found to be neutralized. If Kira cannot receive "safe" targets, he cannot kill without getting caught.

> You're supposing for example that some kira worshipper could be livestreaming the local transmission to kira in eua or just saying that a detective announced the police would catch him in kanto region only? The problem is that this is addressed in the series, L does say the transmission was only being transmited in kanto, meaning, they isolated the transmission from the rest of the world in all means during the time frame of the murder (don't ask me how, L has money and all the police of thw world at disposition), they could just cut kanto's ability to send internet messages to outside the region for example

Ah, so he was never wrong in spite of having no evidence.
And people itt dare say L is not an asspull

There is erotic fan fiction called the Slut Note.

He had circumstantial evidence of light being kira for a period of time and physical evidence of misa being the second kira for a time

Death Note doesn't have any plot holes so much as it has plot thininings, like the ozone layer.

After building influence for a while, there would be more than just one blog to take from. Kira could hide his identity through a VPN, so checking site logs would be fruitless even if they knew which one he was on.
I will agree that Kira does have restrictions on the hypothetical hitlist, but I would also argue that past a certain point he would have such a surplus that it wouldn't matter.
I just doubt that L would be able to shut off all of the internet and phone lines in the world's most populated metro area. Even the government probably could not coordinate that.