Villain justifies himself with basic philosophical or scientific idea

is this by the same guy who did the goldfish bowl head manga

I don't get it.

It's more confusing why they still care about some old fart who's clearly totally irrelevant nowadays.

>what is extremism

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>muh napkin

Indeed

Confucius is the most formative Asian philosopher, and arguably more foundational to modern Japan than his home of China, due to the cultural revolution in the PRC.
Confucius lived in nasty and violent times in China. His solution was not a quick and easy one, and wasn't even accepted much at all in his lifetime. He laid out a reformative philosophy of life and society, one which proclaimed the important of harmony to the universal order in a moral/virtuous person's life. It also emphasized humility and respect (familial respect, and social respect).
Japan implemented a lot of Confucian ideals, particularly in times of peaceful unification, like the Tokugawa Shogunate. As you can learn in Anthropology, a lot of what a person and society values are acculturated ideals. They're things that have been slowly grafted into your mind throughout childhood, like you learn a native language.
This Confucian culture probably explains why anime villains tend to be either out of balance or without respect, to the universal order of things, rather than any other villainous quality. Thus, they're often agents of chaos who don't value human life and society.

The truth is, all of society is based on implemented the ideas of a few dead men. So we better pick some good ones.

is that a penis?

For the same reason the west cares about some ancient writings about the Cross Man and his 12 buttbudies

Because if you look at the current stock of so called relevant intellectuals, dead farts look like the better option to learn from.

Name one major society today whose cultures and traditions still practiced today aren't heavily influenced by "some old fart."

>I mean having a clear motive is essential l to make a villain
Is it?

No, but only if the antagonist is entertaining

>villain is evil just for the sake of being evil
I mean sometimes it's ok or if done right can even be great, but most of the time it's just boring.

>villain is so sure of his righteousness he doesn't even bother attempting to justify his actions

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Yeah. Take the most recent arc of My Hero Academia. Shigaraki, the big bad of the series, just wants to destroy everything because he's evil and mad at the world. That's boring, and by extension so is the rest of the League of Villains.
By contrast, the Meta Liberation Army, the latest group of villains, have an ideology based on their belief that those with superpowers should have the right to use them without fear of government reprisal. This makes them more understandable and therefore more interesting as antagonists even though the individual members haven't been as fleshed out yet.

Its amazing that even western capeshit understands this but anime still struggles with it

Not so much the movies, but definitely the comics

>Its amazing that even western capeshit understands this but anime still struggles with it
What do you mean?

Isn't this literally that one Tezuka comic about the sentient asses and dicks?

You’re thinking of Fate/Zero.

Pretty sure it's
Sore wa Tada no Senpai no Chinko
mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=145424

Better motivations than just evil for the sake of evil

Naturally, exceptions exist, but far too many anime villains dont have motivations explored, or are only touched on to the same extent as Shigaraki

Even the capeshit movies generally try to give their villains at least some motivation, even if its as simple as some power grab or revenge story

>Villain is training up the protagonist to replace him so he can kill himself

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Reminds me of that madman, crimson

>villain has the power of friendship

True. Although to be fair, many comic book villains started out as one-dimensional evil villains, but were later developed by other writers to make them more complex. Magneto is probably the best example.

>biggest supervillains Magneto and DOOM are a fucking kike and gypsie

Based

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For some reason, I am distinctly reminded of that one time Doom was shown crying over 9/11.

In capeverse something like 9/11 wouldn't even be noticed.

Eh, scope can vary wildly

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I find it funnier that Juggernaut was there too, since he once actually tried to bring down the WTC and destroyed the upper floors while laughing maniacally.

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Context? Where all the capes at?

I can't quite remember, but it was something like a commemorative edition, the heroes show up earlier in the comic.

Context is that 9/11 happened. All of the capes are cleaning up for most of the issue, but then we get this page of all the villains helping too/standing around doing nothing while crying.

Politic in capeshit and manga are always dumb.

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>I just wanted to create a Supreme work of art and that's why I decided to use this town as my canvas.
Some motivations are truly hilarious

>Villain justifies himself with nonsense

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The pursuit of happiness is the root of all conflict. All the villain has to say is "because it makes me happy" and that's a reasonable justification, but that wouldn't make for an interesting read, now would it?

>All the villain has to say is "because it makes me happy" and that's a reasonable justification, but that wouldn't make for an interesting read, now would it?
Au contraire.

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That isn't enough to convince others, nigger.

That's, uh, literally why the Joker is so popular in western graphic novel canon

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Yes. In the same manga, there's a girl who collects penises. She bathes them, feeds them watermelons, plays with them, etc. She collects them from the boys she likes by having another dude install urinals with dick-guillotines installed to chop their dicks off. They're totally fine with it and don't really care about losing their dick because it grows back, except when it doesn't.

Orochimaru about to sneak in a cheeky Edo-tensei no jutsu

>tfw she manages to save both

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autism is the key to any kind of mastery in a specific craft, its just the necessity of gaining power

>guy wants his people to stop eating shit
>somehow this makes him the bad guy

Fate/Zero. He literally has his entire moral framework wrecked by someone suggesting that you might have to go through the process twice, meaning that the majority die no matter what you do.
It was ridiculously dumb. But that's fateshit I guess.

Doom is not a villian, he is an antagonist to Reed Richards but the world he is in see's him as a legally protected government representative and his ethnostate country supports his facist ways.

Things doom has done

Spitefully made a home country for his people so they would no longer be mistreated.

Spitefully learned magic to save his mother from the devil.

Powered by spite became a god emperor of mankind to make sure humanity survives the future.

Spitefully saved Sue Storms children.

Reassembled his body atom by atom out of spite after being disintegrated.

If the only restaurants around are expensive gourmet restaurants, how the fuck are most people going to afford to eat out? How could the free market possibly tolerate having so much unmet demand? The big food corporations would never allow it.

Azami does not understand basic economics and thinks anybody gives a single shit enough to enforce this

>Reassembled his body atom by atom out of spite after being disintegrated
this dude is a xianxia protagonist

Insane motivations =/= RETARDED motivations.

Fpbp.
It's like when genuine brainlets quote the "I know that I know nothing" and think themselves intellectuals.

>it's yet another darwinist 'the weak should fear the strong' motivation

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I haven't gotten to this part yet, but I kek'd at the skulls in the background. Did anyone in-universe try to point out that many people can't afford to eat at fancy gourmet places and that there will always be a market demand for cheap places as long as the middle and lower class exist? Or was he going to try to lobby (i.e. bribe) politicians to pass legislation that effectively forces cheap places to close down, cause that's the only way I can see his pants-on-head retarded plan having any chance of working.

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>Did anyone in-universe try to point out that many people can't afford to eat at fancy gourmet places and that there will always be a market demand for cheap places as long as the middle and lower class exist?
Of course not. In fact, for some reason Eizan, one of his subordinates, was a super greedy guy that was previously all about making money by doing consulting work with all kinds of restaurants, yet he was fully on board with Azami's plan that would shut down most restaurants and would logically deprive him of customers.
We never really got any explanation of how he would enforce closing restaurants he didn't like. His plan was to churn out a bunch of gourmet chefs that would follow his ideology and have them take over the gourmet world, but I don't see how that would affect McDonald's.

>capeshit
>good villains
A bad joke

>The villain is first shown having some motivation that seems somewhat silly.
>Over the time it moves on and becomes a bit more, but clearly flawed in it.
>As he is defeated it gets all too clearly shown he was fooling himself with it and only chose the easy way.

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>The villain is evil incarnate, but at the same time also the most human of them all.

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>Villainess has an outright fanatical appreciation / love for someone and this has warped their morality to a point where it's sort of understandable but also really extreme

If you think it was dumb, you missed the point of the scene. The scene didn't change anything regarding kiritsugus beliefs, as he knew they were bad to begin with. The scene only showed kiritsugu that the grail would use the same method that he himself used, which is what broke him since it wasn't the miracle device he wanted.

bravo ONE

Christfags

Was he let into heaven? After all he told the devil to his face to fuck off.

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fuck you, man of murder was 6 years ago

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Eh, given he caused the slaughter of a literal army of catholics i would argue he´s too much for either heaven or hell to handle.

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What is a good motivation for a villain?

Doesn't matter as long as it's reasonable within the context of the story

Christfags are just real life yanderes?!

ITT: SEETHING brainlets who can’t handle philosophy in their comic books.

>Villain is actually just Wittgenstein mixed with Kierkegaard

Maybe if he's acting alone and more of a side character yeah

>villain is so cute you never question their motives

no motivation, they just are that way

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Good intentions but has lots of guilt. Can get swayed to the MC's side against a greater villain.

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He made the crusade possible in the first place. And they got way more british fucking heathens

Sometimes they're correct, though.

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oww poor wittle user has troubwe wid da trowlly pwoblem?????? (´・ω・｀)

kekked

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I forget, what was the context of him saying this and how did it justify his plan of having his own children murder each other in a deatmatch to succeed him?

Damn, I remember dropping this the third time they gimped the terminator girlfriend for plot purposes.

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>A TL;DR metaphoric example of a philosophy encompases its entirety.
You are one of those people that when asked about science always mention schrodinger's cat without understanding what is about, aren't you?

I find this hilarious becuase the whole point of schrodinger's cat was that it was, in fact, totally inaccurate.

Wasn't there a comic where Dr. Doom sacrificed his childhood sweetheart by having a demon skin her alive and then wearing her skin as a kind of magical skin armor?

How do you grow a human as cucked as Bike Cuck? What's the recipe?

not enough manga, anime, game, books, novels or other media where the bad guy wins

its always muh peace and muh humanity

Justified revenge against a corrupt system.

That sounds pretty out of character for Doom too.

So just like Erdogan or Guy Verhofstadt or Macron ?

what kind of shitposting is this even

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>villains got fucked over so hard they dont know any better
>villain is legitimately crazy and deranged and they think theyre doing good
>villain is a misanthrope
>villain isnt really a villain but a good guy all along

That won't stop retards from thinking that is some kind of proof that reality bends to human perception or other equally retarded shit.

Short answer? Its based on creating a social enviroment where oposition to one's self and group interests are rewarded with status, and self-interest or anti-parasitism are punished. Also make sure testosterone is low.

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Anything as long as they have one of the 3 C's:
Charisma
Cunning
Cunny

Last example can become absolutely shit tier if they pull a "hmph...you'd be a great help but you wouldnt understand my plans anyway~" but can be high tier if it was a plan that'd backfire if the MC / protags knew about it.

Do some crazy shit that might cause little casualties in order to prevent world-killing catastrophe in the future

nature

>Ozymandias.
Reminder that his plan is to use a giant squid to stop nuclear war.

I think its best when it does a complete plot twist where the protag realizes he was the bad guy all along and misguided

I cant think of anything recently to perform this well though, its hard to execute well

>Villain explains his motives using a food analogy

>hero realizes he was in the wrong
>fights villain anyway because "muh rules"

These threads always end up having no right answers because it's clear everyone's got a different reason for finding a villain "great". (It's also a harder subject to debate than what makes a good protagonist since villains have this ethic problem attached to them about if we "like" them or not, while 99% of the time we're supposed to like the MC).
For me it's always about execution rather than motive. Shit like are so fucking wrong on so many levels for example, since Luca Blight shits on almost every villains with justifiable motives.

Haha you win this time phaggot

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>protag lacks the abstract brainpower required to understand villains analogies, resorts to ad hominem

Captain marvel fighting the green dudes

Stories with no villains or heroes are the bests. No good or evil forced narratives, just characters.

Oh I hate this
>you were actually right the entire time but you also did some bad things so instead of perfecting your plan Im going to kill you and abandon it all together

This thread reeks of capeshit. Is this fucking Yea Forums ? Muh good guy vs bad guy is kiddy shit. That garbage belongs in WWE.

I dont watch capeshit nor do I intend to when youve seen one youve seen them all

Warbreaker kinda does that, and it's pretty good.

He said preform well, though. Captian Marvel fucks up almost everything.

Extremism in order to overthrow what the villain perceives as a corrupt system.

>My father is incompetent and my mother was raped
>So I justified to kill EVERYONE regardless
Fuck off

It worked.

>Muh good guy vs bad guy is kiddy shit
What the fuck are you on? Almost every major work of fiction ever has a protagonist and an antagonist.

If it's done entertainingly, it's better than your tryhard self-justifying pseudo-philosophical "righter than the MC" garbage.

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KEK

>MC is both the hero and the villain

And that's why they're shit.

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I like insane villains such as

>villain is motivated by love
>villain is motivated by revenge
>villain wants to become god
>villain is a well-intentioned extremist that wants to overthrow the current dystopian order
>villain is evil just because

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source? looks cool

Any manga with a loli main villain?

>villain is a well-intentioned extremist that wants to overthrow the current dystopian order
This is a good kind of villain you tasteless pleb

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>Bad guy commits a shitton of crimes and killings
>Genocides an entire race
>Kills the MC
>All to power up his time machine so he can save his family who died many years ago and so that all the bad shit he'd done up till now won't happen and everyone will be "saved" from himself
>Instead of taking him back many years ago it only takes him back 20 minutes
>Machine doesn't work anymore
>Realizes it was all for naught
>Fucks off to go die beside his family's grave

>villain wants to become god
this is based though

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The fact that Silver Age Magneto's actions were still canon caused some problems for later writers who refused to accept Magneto being easily forgiven.

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>villain is motivated by love
What's wrong with this?

>Villain only does evil because he wants to turn his friend into a hero

That's not even what made Makishima good.

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>villain is k st thirsty for some hero cock

Then you fond of a simple villain that easy to beat without any idealism conflict.

for a pokemon villain gen4&5 were peak

>villain is cute funny girl who just needs a good spanking

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AROUND ELVES WATCH YOURSELVES

>Villain is a psychologist that want to test humanity deep psyche

If we want to save humans but a majority of them are the reason everything is going to shit, isn't it only logical to get rid of that majority?

DA ENDS JUSTAFY DA MEANS!

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>isn't it only logical to get rid of that majority?
Yes. But make sure to let the heroes see how the majority is shit in the first place. Then let them figure out how to fix it. If they fail, then the heroes are responsible and eventually become like you. If they succeed, then your goal is achieved. Win and win situation.

>The entire villain's plot was a prank / social experiment and he did it for views

>>villain is evil just because
Based.

>villain is evil because he admires the concept of evil

>That's not even what made Makishima good.
Then what did?

>villain is responsible for genocide, mass rape, mass torture massive wealth inequality and worsening life conditions
>cant kill them because then you'll be just as bad

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>villain has complex motives
Kino

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>Concept of "evil" didnt even exist in the fictional universe until the villain came along and put a face to the entire idea

>villain is responsible for genocide, mass rape, mass torture massive wealth inequality and worsening life conditions
>In order to find someone determinate enough to end his suffering immortality

>Villain justifies his actions through his nihilistic outlook on humanity

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>I won't kill you because I wi'll be just bad as you
>Then I will kill everyone you love non-stop until you to stop me by killing me
How the heroes will response to this?

They lock up the villain then he escapes for another round, repeat till it stops being profitable

>villain is villain because he has nothing else to do

And the cycle will continue forever, until someone is sick of it and find a way to truly end the villain.

well punk, was it worth it? you killed septillions of people and for what, to entertain yourself? I should kill you right here and now.. but I wont, you'll be going to prison for a looooong time

The MC fucks the villainess and purifies her with the power of love. The villainess becomes the MC's lovey dovey wife and looks back on her chuuni "destroy the world" phase as an embarrasing time in her life. Together both raise a child and the villainess wonders how she ever could have once considered killing the MC or his friends.

>villain justifies himself with outdated scientific idea
>author bases the of the entire story on this flawed premise

>dude literally broke his limiter while pursuing his dream
>lol ez way

>its a success
>people dont understand the premise is flawed

> giant squid
A giant PSYCHIC squid, whose horrific eldritch death screams drove countless people to suicide and haunted the dreams of ordinary people for years to come.

But yeah, generally humans are easily saved from themselves by summoning hell on earth.

>character is regarded as a hero in-universe
>is regarded as a villain by the fans

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Wasn't the entire point of it being a squid to make people think it came from space? I dont think it was actually meant to ever live or be physiologically capable of doing anything apart from exploding and releasing it's psionic energy.

a nuclear war that wasn't on the verge of happening until the ramifications of the first dozen steps of his master plan were quaking around the world

>villain is not exactly evil but just following order from a benevolent leader and using questionable method because he believes the end justifies the mean.
>he actively tried to avoid MC at all cost instead of confronting him.

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Villain
>has a specific, tangible goal
>has a justifiable motive for pursuing said goal
>creates tension as the audience and protagonist learn just how far they are willing to go to achieve said goal
>possibility of redemption based on on how far they go
Why is it apparently so hard to get right?

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this is the kind of villain who I'd read about

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>Villain is just an extreme shitposter

But that's just philosophy, njot motive. If your philosophy is the trolley problem your motive has to be "the trolley problem failed me [because the hero's faction traded my family's lives for their leader's] and I'm handing out what I believe is justice" or something. That's a motive built out of their broken idea, but the idea itself isn't a motive which is why these villains often suck ass,

Absolutely and unironically based

meant for

>villain is evil for no discernible reason and repeatedly and gleefully does evil things for the lulz
>author's twist hand-waves it by saying that it was part of a larger plan to gain "muh power" or some other bullshit
>only discernible reason for the villain wanting "muh power" is because they're evil and want to do evil things for the lulz

What is even the point?

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yeah it was genetically engineer to look as alien as possible (according to what people associate with 'alien') without seeming fake, and to die instantly. It surviving at all was not part of the plan.
but the overall point of the story was that for all his genius, Ozymandias was trapped by the confines of the superhero genre. He wasn't capable of coming up with a 50012 step plan to guide human culture to the point where it fixed all its problems and no longer had to worry about suicide via global war. All he could come up with was a superheroes' solution (just keep punching bad guys and let the actual leaders lead) which he tried and failed with the minutemen, or a supervillains' solution (I'll summon a HIDEOUS BEAST to make the world WAKE UP to its foolishness and realize how weak and insignificant we all are), and his fear of nuclear mutual destruction was itself a 'black freighter' a phantom menace ultimately created by Ozymandius taking for granted that everyone was just plain inferior to him and he really did know better

What anime

Thanos?

frbr

Pokémon.

lack of emotional intelligence. empathy, sympathy, that kind of thing. they aren't really aware of it, but they treat people IRL like they are just characters in the drama of their own solipsistic perception of the world, and their fictional characters in turn are doubleplus flat because they are only thinking about how the main character feels, and are unpracticed in the art of exploring how the members of 'everyone else' feels, only what they do. So they are left with just a mass of plot devices with names that just do things without any human-ness about them

Because (like Miyazaki said) a lot of writers are writing based on seeing other fiction (with necessarily distilled caricatures of humanity) and not based on any knowledge of actual human behavior.
So they base their work on these distilled caricatures, making the caricatures that they make even MORE distilled until they lose what made the originals compelling.

Decriminalize loli worldwide

Romance of the three kingdoms.

bone dad 10/10 would see the first light of tomorrow with

And the protagonists will be lolis.

to indulge in
villains like that tend to be very sexy, very fabulous, and very dramatic. even if they are sniveling cowards deep down, their ability to just exude this aura of self-ness, often to the point of warping their immediate vicinity just to suit their aesthetics, being that much extra? very appealing in the same way dying while on fire, high on a lethal amount of cocaine, and surfing a thermonuclear rocket shark right into the pentagon is appealing.

>Cao Cao
>villain
Neck yourself, the true villain and the man he refers to as the 'greatest traitor' is the sandal-weaver in the background
Chen Gong did nothing wrong though

the main villain is also a loli who is really angry that no old smelly bald men tried to moles her, this made her extremely jealous

Magneto a good boy he dindu nuffin

Ahem

It doesn't really have to be like this. A villain can just be in it for the rush he gets from going into combat and upsetting the established order, but can also be entertaining in a battle of wits with the protagonist. Seemingly unstoppable villains are also great sources of tension if done right.

>A villain can just be in it for the rush he gets
That's specific, tangible, and justifiable.

So it was autism with a hint of sociopathy?

What about >COMPLEX motives?

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>Villain is simply fucked in the head

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BTFO

>villain know they're fucked up and hate themselves for it but keep going for the faps

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Give the villain a clear set of values, including aspects that the audience can admire or agree with, only to sacrifice them, one by one, leaving nothing but ambition, ego, and paranoia.

Are Angels in Evangelion villains?

No more than the humans, since both sides were engineered to exterminate the other.

>If you think it was dumb, you missed the point of the scene

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level E

No, Earth was their planet. Dumbass Lillith and her faggot children ruined everything.

If this were really Doom, he would have started and ended the war on Islam within the year

13% of the population commit half the crime and the villain wants to lower the crime rate.

>Villains are ""evil"" because they operate under completely different cultural and biological laws
>Villains are also partly a metaphor for the MC to undergo transformation into adulthood and develop necessary skills for survival
>Villains pose questions about nature/nurture and the hypocritical ways we sustain ourselves

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Thatd be a pretty poor motivation since only 2% of that 13% are statistically known to actually commit those crimes. A better motivation would be to eradicate the retarded, including but not limited, to laymen who dont even use statistics correctly

name one (1) anime where the villain mentions the trolley problem

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>Ends justify the means lol

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that dude was just plain greedy, only good guys in watchmen were owl and rorschach
dr manhattan was forcedly aloof

I think some of the best villains are those who have a similar goal or intention as the protagonist, but different means or different outcomes create conflict.

ROTK is Shu propaganda
Caocao did nothing wrong

Based.

Here's your (You), faggot.

>it worked
heh, nothing personnel kid

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Batman wins all the time in his comics and he is definitely a villain

All 5 characters would be dead after the timeskip.

source: my ass

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Rorschach was by no means a good guy. He allowed for his black and white mentality, which was more just a childish defense mechanism against his shitty life, to justify him acting as judge, jury, and executioner. He's imposing his own morality on the world through force, just like Veidt, he just has less resources to do so so the scale is smaller.

Nite Owl was just a more or less normal guy with some impotency issues in way over his head. He stood for the every man being forced to make vague moral choices with no guaranteed right or wrong answer.

Veidt was a megalomaniac who believed he knew better than anyone, but it's difficult to call him to task because he's always the smartest person in the room and pretty much never fails at what he intends to do. So while you hear him go on about how he's going to create a utopia and you're thinking "can this guy get anymore full of himself?" you still have the fact that he succeeds and is never really proven wrong nagging in the back of your mind.

Jon comes across as at least somewhat hamming up his own separation from humanity. He still has moments where he behaves just like a human, but it almost seems like he needs to think of himself as being irreversibly different from those around him.

Nah, evil just for the sake of being evil is a nice change of pace from all the recent villains.

That adds to the ambiguous nature of the ending, but it's more taking the piss out of the idea of comic books, where once you defeat the big bad guy everything works out and everyone lives happily ever after. Real life is messy, and just because one chapter closes doesn't mean a dozen more won't open.

So basically Kyubey from Madoka

So basically Walter White from Breaking Bad
Death Note also seemed like it was trying to do this, but he went evil so quickly that it was obvious that it was just about his ego to begin with.

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all of those in his list depend on how well its executed, evil for the sake of evil can be done well, execution is far more important the motives

There aren't that many crimes, obviously. Politics, large scale statistics and individuals are entirely different things anyway.

Like the Master from Fallout 1.
till you find out super mutants are sterile and his plan falls apart

What an absolute brainlet tier post

You’ve never been to one of those really small, out of the way, serious churches have you? Almost certain it ain’t limited to christianity but something about religion+small community+ isolation+ one leader makes for some semi-cultlike shit

"Villainy" is a relativistic term. The term "antagonistic" is preferred. The question cannot be answered without the necessary context but I'll play along.

Let's take the set of contexts containing all possible contexts. These contexts contain all possible motivations and all subsets of contexts. Therefore there exists a context where "go fuck yourself" is a good motivation.
QED

What about
>misery loves company

>villains who pretend they're just shitposters in order to manipulate people

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>t. Retard who knows he'd be the first to hang in a retard extermination plan

>lethal amount of cocaine

Are you high on cocaine? Your word salad doesn't make any sense.

>it's yet another darwinist 'the weak should fear the strong' motivation
>the strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must
>loses anyway
It’s just so fucking stupid. Justice and wanting to protect the weak can serve as a source of strength, how the fuck would you get away with just ignoring that shit.

Based fuck the autistic loners

The shaman girls, Lintahlo, where are they?

>He's imposing his own morality on the world through force, just like Veidt, he just has less resources to do so so the scale is smaller
Fuck off for two reasons
>individual justice is always worse than a justice system
Is a copout.
And
>imposing morality through force
Is literally the only reason any system of laws work in the first place.
Also we are never really given an idea of how much of Jon is human or not. Thats the problem with fate/destiny/“can see the strings” characters

I finally watched Magical Girl Madoka Magica. Question:
Is the entropy justification for real? It sounds like bullshit to me, doesn't seem to make much sense and Kyubey is a proven liar anyway. But maybe I'm a brainlet

Light?

PRESIDENT VALENTINE WILL
>MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

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>Villain is a simple unassuming person that just wants to be left alone to do the things they like that happens to be heinous serial murder
>Every other evil thing he does is just retaliation against people imposing on his desires
Sociopaths are fun

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It could be a lie but then how are we supposed to know if it wasn't confirmed?

what the FUCK, australia

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>Doom crying
>all for the sake of stupid politics
Goddamn Marvel has always been trash.

I see. I only watched the first series so maybe the films/games released afterwards clarified it.

they are actually the good guys
and the brainlet protagonists think they are the good guys when infact they have just fallen for the real bad guys tricks

Yeah but that makes it hilarious.

bwased and (´・ω・｀)pilled

You mean entropy ending the universe or the qb's reasoning for making witches? Qb's kept looking for ways to generate entropy free energy in the movies, so they are probably being honest on their motives.

As for entropy destroying the universe itself, current physics laws still support it being a thing.

serves them right, they trusted an ELF

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when someone asks me that I like giving the same answer I gave when I was 10 of jamming the tracks by switching them halfway or jamming something in the mechanism to derail it

>villain is in love with the protagonist

There is no particular standard for motives, and it's retarded to think there is. As long as the villain is charismatic enough and works in the story then they're a good villain.

The permanently increasing (or, at most, stagnant) total entropy of the universe is the accepted scientific fact. What sounded like a made up excuse was the need taint human souls and somehow use them in order to somehow reverse this. To me it felt like the creature just wanted souls. But if in the movies there are more like it and they all work together and say the same thing I guess they are not bullshitting.

>2%
It's 33%. And only 10%-20% of felonies are solved, so do the math.

i heard ozzy said it didn't work when he showed up in doomsday clock

Based メアリ-

>villain is old and wants the young heroes to stop making noise in his planet

I've always really appreciated villains that use an image of logical and reasonable to disguise what are ultimately incredibly selfish and childish motivations. Characters like Adachi from Persona 4.

isn't he literally just an android made by hitler

I don't think he actually has a soul

>He's imposing his own morality on the world through force, just like Veidt, he just has less resources to do so so the scale is smaller
>F-fuck off for more than one r-reasons
He's right though, brainlet. Inkblotlet face-man wanted the truth to be out more than anything, even at the cost of the greater good. Good men like me do horrible things and go bump in the night so your mediocre civilian ass can sleep soundly at night in your comfy beds with your family and friends, eating decent food while criticizing us and forgetting about us and leaving us to die after we've been broken doing what you won't. through all of this you're the weaklings who are without empathy because you're never lost or sacrificed everything. I do agree with Rorschach being fed up with protecting people who demonized them, but even if they do, they still need protecting and letting them all die isn't the way to solve anything.

So no, your butthurt helps no one and you should be thankful that there are people willing to do the things you aren't willing to so you can keep criticizing the "bad people" who keep you free. So man fucking stupid children these days have no respect because everything was handed to them. Thankfully, you're the minority.

his sense of humor and willingness to enjoy life under the darkest and most stressful circumstances

The one where no one is in trouble but you can pull the lever and wave closer to the people on the trolley?

He actually justified himself by saying that it was for the good of his country, and how Kakin would have been swallowed up by bigger countries by now if it weren't for its king selection trials.

based

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>Therefore there exists a context where "go fuck yourself" is a good motivation.
it's honestly seeming like a pretty good motivation for leaving this shitty thread

whats the point if his country is a fucked up fascist dystopia like north korea anyway

I really don't get why Moore complains about people liking Rorschach, when he wrote him as the only protagonist with a moral backbone.

Maybe it is because he was supposed to be the lunatic that fucks everything up in the end. His whole character encompases everything Moore himself hates.
He didn't count on people looking up to someone willing to die for the thing he believes in

>(´・ω・｀)
I want this pill

He probably shouldn't have made all the others whimpering simps then.

honestly moore is a cuck rape apologist who doesn't have the stones to take any of the burden that's actually needed

Yeah this is p gay

Why he didn't bring Gyro back?

Fried chicken

kek you got me

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Both forms of justice are fallible, but an individual person, especially one who believes in their own righteousness, when wrong answers to fewer people. At least with a justice system, it's generally built upon in an agreement by the people under it. No one else agreed to Rorschach's moral code, yet he forced it onto others.

Everyone wants to believe that all the bad guys will get theirs and all the good guys will be rewarded, but that's nothing more than a childish fantasy. Real life is messy, ugly and awkward, and doesn't always work as intended. Waiting on Superman will just leave you out in the cold till you die of exposure.

On Jon's side, he comes across more human than people assume or let on. He cracks jokes, has emotions, and even seems to talk down to people in a grandiose manner, all of it hidden behind this idea that he's no longer human. I think he feels different than others (for obvious reasons) and no longer has much that he can relate to with anyone, so he's stuck in this desolation and he justifies it with nihilism. Yet despite that he's clearly hurt by the news of Jenny's diagnosis and becomes withdrawn when dumped by Laurie, just like a lot of people who go through a bad break up. He's angry when he finds out Laurie has been sleeping with Dan and is as indecisive as he was when he was Osterman.

Doomsday Clock is "canon" but also shit so in a few years time it will be no different from Before Watchmen.

based and denkopilled

Because his moral backbone is nothing more than a coping mechanism against his super shit childhood.
This is clearly laid out in the stuff at the end of his background chapter but because the "origin" of Rorschach is compelling it makes people gloss over that.

why the fuck are we even here

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Really I just think a good villain is one that fits with the themes of the narrative. X-men is more about conflicting ideals about dealing with mutants in society, so a villain with real morals and legitimacy to his convictions like Magneto is basically perfect for that type of story. By contrast (using more capeshit as an example), Batman stories typically focus more on vigilante justice, strength of willpower and bringing down a hammer of order to an injust society; in that sense a purely chaotic evil terrorist like Joker makes more sense.

The (´・ω・｀) pill is very hard to earn. In order to get it you must send 600 emails to the girl you like.

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>(you)

How do you go from based villains with a master plan to retarded dumbasses that ruined the games even more?

yeah, it has the risk of coming off too preachy, but it's a good way to make you buy into their animosity. Also gives them a reason interact besides the usual shtick of the villain wanting do so something, and our guy having little motivation beyond being a stick in the mud and telling him to cut it out.

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When the fuck is hxh coming back lads? How long has it been now?

hiatus-hiatus.github.io/

Only 14 weeks? It feels like it's been a lot longer..

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What does Moore think people should do, just take it up the ass?

Probably actually work through their problems in a healthy manner instead of trying to "tough out" mental disorders.
People treat Rorschach's moral absolutism as if it's an admirable character trait, but it's extremely fragile and only works in a childish world of good guys and bad guys. It can't cope with actually difficult moral choices, which is why he commits suicide by Manhattan at the end.

For instance, Rorschach considers Truman and his father to be good people. However, he doesn't even know his father, and creates fantasies where his father is a respectable man who left his mother to fight in the war, despite everything about his home life pointing to the contrary. This leads to him liking Truman, because one of the few things he "knows" about his father is that he liked Truman, and Rorschach has created an idolized version of his father in his head.

So the only two people we know Rorschach considers moral are based on lies he tells himself.

This is even further reinforced by his essay about Truman, where he says he agrees with Truman's decision to drop the nukes on Japan because if he hadn't, more people would have died than did in the bombing. Who else's philosophy does that remind you of?

Trips of fucking truth

Holy autism, nobody cares about villains.
Take your meds, kids.

How do I send emails to a fictional character?

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Holy shit we reddit now.

>your mediocre civilian ass
t. Crayon-eating boot, LARPing bootlicker, or LARPing LEO who thinks he's not one of those "mediocre civilians"
The right to keep and bear arms is necessary just as much because of glow in the dark alphabet soup spooks and arrogant punks like you as it is because of regular KFC niggers. You don't protect shit and anyone who thinks you do is naive and retarded. The only source of safety that can be depended on is one's self.

Have you considered that maybe character traits can be admirable even if they aren't practical? Or that people may put less emphasis on the origin of a character trait than the value of the character trait?

>Romance of the three kingdoms.

I m sorry for being mouth drooling retard but which one exactly? There are multiple movies and series about it. Is it the one from 2010?

napkin was fucking kino though.

This isn't how king crimson works

Again, moral absolutism is not an admirable philosophy. Generally people either respect that part of him, or even if they feel that moral absolutism isn't a virtue, they admire that he sticks to it. Except like his essay on Truman shows, he doesn't. His moral absolutism is just a way for him to cope with the world.

based

It's from the series, subbed by Jiang Hu.

He's a fictional character. You don't have to respect or admire his principles to prefer him over his contemporaries.

You aren't really supposed to prefer any of them, as they are all fairly broken people in their own way. My point is that people prefer Rorschach for sham reasons that have nothing to do with how the character is actually portrayed.

Sorry, should think a little more before posting since doesn't really address the earlier topic. Back on that track, but even if it is a coping mechanism, it doesn't change the fact that what he is doing is something that people can find compelling.

I like villains who don't need to justify shit, because they are right and they know it, logically speaking

You mean like jesus or muhhamed?

ok...and what manga is that?

>good men like me
Oh fuck off bootlicker, if you actually were doing good shit you’d spend less time bitching about how mean Rorscach is for killing a child murderer.
>i-its j-just cope I swear guys
People don’t care if he’s had a shit childhood. It doesn’t matter, since he could’ve very easily just turned into a rapist or a criminal etc. The fact he didn’t and instead went on to hunt “bad guys” even at great personal risk with little to no gain is usually seen as a admirable trait. Now please argue harder about how killing child murderer and feeding her too the dogs is “moral absolutism” and a massive cope and how Rorschach is actually a bad guy.

Breen was an asshole who, despite all of his preachiness, was clearly only out for himself and didn't give much of a fuck about either his fellow men or the Combine
What the fuck is this

2010 yes

>people have large flaws
>that means you should never agree or respect any of the characters who have flaws
Ok

>Villain actually was the good guy all along

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>Shigaraki, the big bad of the series
He's still learning. People tends to forget that. He's kind of like "bizarro Deku"

luca had a reason tho wasnt just for the lulz. his desire from revenge drove him insane with a sort of biggoted hatred for an enemy nation

but i agree he didnt have that much grey except for his love for his sister.. and he was probably oone of the most memorable villains in suikoden franchise.

kefka was also a great villain and he didn't have that complex of a reason. it all depends if what they do is memorable

still protagonist and antagonist are not the same as good or bad. take breaking bad and death note

all of then can be good portrayals it all depends on execution

they are in trhe same category as cuthulu and lavos.

they are an alien mind that is doing his nature

He isn't a bad guy, just also not a "good" guy either. It's a telling sign that those who defend moral absolutism always default to indefensible crimes. No one will balk much at a human butcher a serial rapist being killed by extralegal means, but it's a value system that can't handle morally ambiguous situations.

Veidt explains it best; Rorschach is a man of great integrity, but his moral system is limitation.

>villain was born evil

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That isn't what I said. Each of them are broken people, and while they have certain admirable traits they aren't necessarily respectable.

Yeah except Veidt murdered millions of people. Maybe if Veidt had a “limited” moral system that would be a good thing. And guess who Rorschach deals with, cause he doesn’t kill petty criminals or minor thieves or people in the “grey areas”, the only people we have seen him kill are
>serial killer
>child killer
>two people trying to kill him
>mafia boss
Arguing about his moral absolutism being a flaw when it never pops up is stupid

Rorscach comes into contact with what I’m sure you’d consider a well rounded “not broken” person when he meets the pyschologist. And then instead of Rorscach being fixed, the pyschologist is the one who “breaks”. That’s why I’m having issues with the idea that Rorscach, fucked up as he is, is in the wrong, considering the milquetoast “non-broken” person couldn’t actually even come close to fixing him

Loyalty. The kind of loyalty that only a dog would have.

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Except Rorschach also agreed with Truman dropping the nukes on Japan because if he didn't, more people would have died in an invasion. So much for his rigid morals.

The whole point of a moral system is how it handles various situations. And one of moral absolutism's flaws does pop up, and directly leads to Rorschach's death. His moral system is unable to handle the ambiguous situation it found itself in, and lead him to essentially commit suicide.

Malcolm was a shallow person who only wanted to "fix" Rorschach for the fame it would acquire him. What kind of psychologist doesn't encounter nihilism before being late in his career?

this. Hisoka is the best villain in HxH by far and he also has the simplest motivations

Worst trope out there. Pic related and the bug eyed fucker from Re:zero, are some of the worst villains I have ever seen.

This has been done.

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Why?

>Macron
>ethnostate
>support

post jajajajaja!

reply coment

post imagen

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>villain doesnt tell the protag his reasons so there is no way to justify killing him and he succeeds his evil plans

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he doesnt commit suicide, he dies a martyr

why was this deleted?

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Can we all just agree that FKMT writes the best villains? Guys like Washizu, Tonegawa, Hyoudo and etc. don't need a tragic backstory or everything discussed ITT. They are rich and powerful men who crush weaker men out of boredom. And when they start their monologues about life, money, power and etc., you just can't help but to see the ugly truth in their words. They don't lie or mess with the heroes. They say it like it is.

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Just should die already and end this charade

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He commits suicide. Even if Manhattan doesn't kill him, what's he supposed to do? How's he supposed to find his way back to the owlship? And if he does, how does he fix it? And if he does, how does he pilot it?
There's a reason he took off his "face" before dying, and was crying when he asked Manhattan to do it. He couldn't live in that world with that moral burden, because he beliefs wouldn't allow for it. He couldn't come to grips with the situation he found himself in, and decided to die rather than have his defense mechanism shattered.

He was 100% right. The trolley question is agonizing to plebs. To people with actual power, it's a no brainer to pull the damn lever. That's what those people are there for, to made the hard decisions for the sake of the herd.

no, silly things like how to get from a to b shouldnt stop your beliefs

This is shit. There are great villains from every tier here. There's more to a good villain than their motivation.

It's entirely relevant. He was basically doing a Frankenstein, going out to die alone in the antarctic cold. Manhattan expedited the process, but Rorschach knew there was no chance of him making it to New York, he's not an idiot.

To this day I remember some stupid tv documentary talking about how comics were maturing by tackling difficult and modern subjects (like watergate and stuff) but blamed the readers for not liking it and treat them as children.
This shit is why comics are terrible, its all so heavy handed and laughable, i get that marvel was shaken up by 911 since they are from NY but this is just embarassing, even worse since a few years later they did Ultimatum.

Actions define a villain. Motivations simply make their actions more comprehensible, maybe.

That's not true. A person who kills in self defense and one who kills in cold blood are each killing someone, but the motivation is entirely different.

you got me

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Motivations can be the same but result in different actions. Two people are broke, one gets a job and the other mugs someone. What a person actually does takes priority. There's also a legal difference between killing in self-defense and murder, you know, so they are not the same unless you're being autistically literal.

Diavolo wasn't bad
Protecting his identity to continue running a crime family. Not like he was especially evil or careless, it just so happens that Polpo got killed right as he needed him to take care of someone important. Really his major mistake was underpaying the assassins.

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Diavolo's obsession with his anonymity borders on insanity though.

best villain reporting in

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Even to prevent them from breaking five other people's kneecaps?

Washizu is so fucking good. I don't think any other character could make me invested in a 200+ chapter saga of a game I barely understand

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Think about 90% of the stand users in Passione. Most of them could easily assassinate the boss if they got the drop on him. Honestly Black Sabbath could probably do it. He's only powerful at extremely close ranges. For a man who wants to run an organization as powerful as Passione, it makes sense that he doesn't want anyone to know anything about him.
idk why he did that weird shit with his mom, but the anonymity bit is perfectly logical to me

Everybody dies someday, except dr manhattan. The martyr dies for his beliefs, he doesnt submit just because its inconvenient.

>Have you heard of "Schrodinger's Neko"?

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WHY DIDN'T HE JUST CREATE MORE RESOURCES

that's my favourite

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presumably because someone reported your reddit nigger ass

>how about Ein Sten's theory of moral relativism

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Pure spite

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Are you a fed or something?

Everything becomes a problem if you think too hard about it

He was killing himself user. You need to get over it. In the end, he was just like Blake; a moral dilemma that his belief system couldn't parse, so he decided to end his life rather than face the disillusion.

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It's clear from everything with the scene. The very act of going out into an antarctic blizzard with no real way of escaping is evidence of suicide enough, but to add to it you have him remove his mask, which he constantly refers to as his real face, prior to his death as well as his tears, which is about the first time you see any emotion from him when he's an adult. His world view as Rorschach was breaking, and so before his death he became Kovacs again, a person with a human face and human emotions.
Him pleading, tears streaming down his face, with Manhattan to kill him when the latter clearly preferred a different outcome, adds the capstone.

It's funny to watch people complain about whatever boogieman is ruining superhero comics when they've literally been trash for 40 years.

Clearly, people who have three years of gourmet training would be the only ones allowed to work at mcdonalds for minimum wage while also using all their skills and somehow getting cheap high quality ingredients in order to serve true gourmet at mcdonalds for the same price as they did before. But then, how much would they charge at a 5 star place, and how different would the fare be?

>any character starts talking about schrodinger's cat
into the trash it goes

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Nasubi isn't justifying himself in that page, though. He is trying to convince someone else to act the same way.

And the Trolley Problem isn't even explained in the page, but it is used to explain why there are already 14 levers and anybody could pull them.

Someone post that page with those mafia cooks, who have to be as corrupted.

isn't that actually done by some anime girl

>villain learns how to fight by playing board games for 8 days

>villain justifies himself with ' i have nothing else to live for, my family is ..'

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Absolutely based
I hope the other user survived

This reads so incredibly condescending it hurts.

Even the part where he has to personally have his daughter transported to him instead of having his trusted subordinates kill her, and the part where instead of waiting for Bruno to just drop off his daughter he goes out of his way to do that retarded shit in the elevator?

>Also make sure testosterone is low.
We have to address this now. Even leftists are starting to say that the chemicals in our water are making us effeminate.

Its not really about legality or economics. His indoctrinated chefs just wont work for the "wrong kind" of restaurant. If ALL thr chefs are indoctrinated, all other restaurants cant get chefs.

That's a sure way to get the population against you. Don't mess with people's cheap comfort food.

Bullies enjoy the suffering of others. Yes, it makes them 'flat characters' when translated to fiction, because bullies generally -are- sadistic, ego-obsessed morons. Not going the dramatic psuedopsychological route of "ooh, they were abused" doesn't make an author lazy.

The issue with sadistic villains is that:
A sadist will act cowardly and retreat at the smallest sign of things not going their way. If they are only in it for the pleasure of torturing someone, they have no reason to fight
Very few people who aren't sadistic themselves would follow them, and any organization they lead will probably underperform.
They will also not be the best killers, mob bosses, or whatever, because if sadism is their main motivation, it will get in the way of efficiency.

Endo>>>>everyone else

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completely back asswards.
rorschach's truman essay is the "cope", and its also completely fucking inane like kiritsugis "kill everyone for the greater good" philosophy.
rorschach dying for what he believes is stupid, like suicidal emiya throwing himself in front of a trolley to "save people" instead of making a decision or saving himself.
rorschach murderhoboing like he does, is based and redpilled like heavens feel shirou.
fuck "utilitarianism", just save yourself and the people you care about. if humanity nukes itself into oblivion in watchman-verse, who gives a shit, people who choose to do that to themselves fucking deserve it.

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hiatus over when

Two months at the very least

Do you know of the back pain problem?

>rorschach murderhoboing like he does, is based and redpilled like heavens feel shirou.
HF Shirou wasn't a murderhobo, the Shirou who pursued the ideal and became Archer was a murderhobo who eventually got lynched. Fucking Fatefags, too much of a brainlet for philosophy, Watchman and their own series.

Haha, nah. People dont give that much of a shit

"Looking out for number one" is only a worthwhile philosophy if you are THE number 1. If you aren't the richest, strongest person in the world then you will always be at the mercy of someone stronger, or at the fates itself. In the Watchmen universe it wouldn't help any one one bit if they were only looking out for themselves, since once the nukes start flying, even if was just due to the decisions of a couple people, everyone will suffer the consequences.

>a sadist will be sadistic and nothing else
Because villains cant have prowess, intelligence or charisma

it's literally just a rip off of part of bokurano that's never given any of the same development

>villain just wants to be left alone

>It can't cope with actually difficult moral choices, which is why he commits suicide by Manhattan at the end.
he actually just still believed his friend was alive

>where he says he agrees with Truman's decision to drop the nukes on Japan because if he hadn't, more people would have died than did in the bombing. Who else's philosophy does that remind you of?
maybe he just knew literally anything about japanese war crimes

chink propaganda

>japanese war crimes
Be serious. Nobody cares about your fanfiction.

the most important thing is to not allow your reality to be predefined in the first place

Considering it's a big rip off of Kamen Rider Ryuki and toku and mecha go hand in hand I wouldn't be surprised if he lifted that too

>Very few people who aren't sadistic themselves would follow them, and any organization they lead will probably underperform.
uh have you heard of this guy called muhammad

>jam the tracks
>kills everybody on-board

why are actual nips posting on Yea Forums?

For the same reason koreans keep lying about "warcrimes".

but I may be able to save the people on the tracks, or maybe there's just a lot of injuries and no fatalities, or maybe I get to kill an entirely different set of people than what was predicted

when you have precognitive ability sometimes you just need to blow up all the probable timelines to branch to a new one that doesn't contain the disasters you know about, play that shit like stein's gate man

It would still go against the philosophy he espoused at the end of the series to support the bombing.

Assuming the villain's ONLY motivation is sadism, none of those would help him much. An assassin who is a no-nonsense professional who just wants to get the job done will naturally perform better than some guy of equal skill and smarts who is into assassination to get off to his victims' screams or whatever.

And if the guy is running some mafia, army, or empire, he is just going to underperform compared to any rivals, and maybe even end up murdered by one of his underlings because money that could be distributed among the organization members is wasted by a leader who pointlessly kills underlings, tortures slaves or burns villages for lulz.

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>villain you thought was level headed and calculating is actually an emotionally stunted childish mess with deeply selfish motives
Based

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Can't say I know his full biography, but given that he got shit down besides taking lunch money or murdering half a dozen people, I believe he probably wanted power and recognition far more than he enjoyed other people's pain.

Incels be like.

ROsarch is fucking based

>Become god
Hao is fine, he was crying for mommy all that time but still holds all power and ideals

His motives for everything he's doing has made him from interesting to my least favorite character.

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that's not even a scientific idea, that's what a 12 years old would come up with. I love seeing the marvel movie fans suck his cock. Their stories are so shit that a half-characterized villain is such a revolution to them.

I prefer to think of this user as the hero

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This

What spectacular fall from a terrifying monster to a pathetic jobber to an even more pathetic basedboy triggered by a comment a literally janny made to his dad. At least Eren's making up the difference in consummate villainy

Wasn't he a robot?

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you seriously believe he cut a dude's head off and raped his wife right there because it was strategically sound in his mind

And chinks. And mongols. And 'namese. And slavs. And natives.