I don't get it. Why did both of them consistently underestimate Rubinksy and the Terrarists?

I don't get it. Why did both of them consistently underestimate Rubinksy and the Terrarists?

Attached: 53e10da3b88de443a2df0820ba7650f38ec9f213_00.jpg (457x430, 38K)

jews are sneaky

Terraists completely ruined the anime for me with their wacky "huh i'm evil" shit. They don't belong in LOGH.

But they got sneaked on a couple of times and still didn't think even though they are the smartest in the galaxy? Like are they really considering all the possibilities like how the show sold them?

Because they had literally nothing. Both of them knew that at best their weird ass Earth cult would only ever become an minor inconvenience and they were proven right. The Terrarists died out at the end of the series and were the most useless part of the entire plot. Even Rubinksy's final act of vengeance meant nothing except a ton of buildings would need to be rebuilt. They changed nothing about the trajectory of history.

Because it's probably difficult to think of some random merchants and a literal who cult as bigger threats than an entire enemy nation.

They killed Yang Wen Li, I hardly count that as a minor inconvenience.

>they killed one soldier
wow!

They're analogs for Muslims.

yeah the one soldier that was an integral part of the FPA

Not too integral since they managed to negotiate a truce even without him.

You make it sound like Yang Wen Li knew that his life was meaningless when he was alive and that was not his priority. Pretty sure he made it clear a few times that he wanted to survive and grow old as a goal.

He didn't know he was gonna get killed. But he knew that terrorism and assassination don't change the course of history.

They're Evangelical Dominionist Zionists.

Because neither fully understood the deep, institutional connection between them. They maybe suspected some connection, but only in the way they suspected Truhnict was just using them as dumb muscle.

Remember even Frederica underestimated them when she listed all the major powers that could unite against the Reich since her assumption was that they'd only matter if they could throw their support behind Yang.

The Phezzani network, Rubinsky's underground contacts, and Terrarist cells were all treated as somewhat separate entities because the only way to know they weren't was on the data disk Yang and Julian were too busy to look through after the Earth mission.

Hmmm...

Attached: 1527437436524.jpg (1024x576, 78K)

>Pretty sure he made it clear a few times that he wanted to survive and grow old as a goal.
Like everyone else's goal in life? He wanted to stay alive because he wanted to retire and live a proper civilian life in a time of peace and hopefully prosperity.

>Frederica
Sorry, I meant Hilda

FPBP

Didn't he accept one of his promotions because it meant he'd get a larger pension?

democracy is a spook
heil mein kaiser!

This made a lot of sense to me. All the other answers here explain why Reinhard and Yang would underestimate the Terrarists and Rubinsky once, but this explains why they kept doing it. They literally did not realize they were underestimating the same entity over and over again.

Attached: 1368076160696.png (140x247, 37K)

dunno about the Terraists but Rubinksy deserved it for being a dumbass and getting cancer

politics according to LoGH
>Republic
>pro: they are down to earth, meritocratic, support upward mobility, don't have serfdom
>con: corrupt as all hell

>Monarchy
>pro: honorable in battle, focused, have no tolerance for shitty paramilitary groups
>con: dickass nobles keeping people of actual worth down

>Theocracy
>pro: nothing
>con: responsible for literally everything bad ever

>Reinhard's Marysuearchy
>pro: everything
>con: nothing

seriously the entire second half is pretty cartoonish compared to the first half

>Reinhard's Marysuearchy
The whole point was that a benevolent autocracy is the ideal form of government, but can't be guaranteed.

>37th(I think) century
>cancer
the absolute state of this """""master'""""" manipulator

This was never the point of the show. The constant theme was always what people were willing or not willing to compromise for their will and ambition.

None of this makes sense either. The Alliance was just as full of dickass elites keeping people down while plenty of their officers were shown to be highly honorable. There was also plenty of people in the Alliance who decried the lack of meritocracy in how elites could keep their lives and riches while the nation sacrifices for war, or how several later officers talk about how it's only in the recent age of chaos that they were able to overcome the institutionalism of the government or the military to rise up the ranks like they did. There were also several people who Reinhard praised for being virtuous civil servants that were kept in low posts when he conquered them.

As for the paramilitary groups thing, the nobles all had private military forces. And Renhard's rule also had its problems, especially regarding its glut of ambitious officers and bureaucrats in high offices.

That's what he said. Of course I always found Yang's self depreciation simple Republican morality. In the end, he wanted the power necessary to preserve and save his country and republic which is why he constantly accepted being declared military commander.

>con: nothing
There were huge cons. The fact that Reinhard's greatness effectively ended all avenues of glory for the ambitious made his country massively prone to civil war. We literally had one occur during the show.

Wasn't Grillpanzer supposed to show how many officers under Reinhard didn't want the war to end because they hadn't gotten the glory they wanted yet?

Just comparing Reinhard's ranking to Yang's whereas Reinhard had people hating and getting in the way every time he moved up with Yang they pretty much forced him up

>legend of the galactic heroes thread
Based

Attached: D4eX1vIWkAA0S2Y.jpg (714x1599, 104K)

Yes, along with that part where Hilda talked about officers reporting soldiers who didn't 'Sieg Kaiser' enough. Mecklinger says it best how the mouse can't understand the lion, and that's Reinhard's major issue with his rule, and why he felt so lonely without Kircheis.

Isn't an underlying tone of Ruenthals rebellion the desire to give Reinhard one last worthy opponent?
That "Sieg Kaiser" part could just be result of the fact that most soldiers and officers serving Reinhard just 5 years ago were serving under the High Nobles, where such shovinistic loyalty must have been the disciplinary doctrine

More like the underlying tone was to give Ruenthal a warriors death. Regardless, Ruenthal literally didn't even want to enter into civil war but got tricked into it, and his pride/ambition prevented him from amicably working it out. If your Empire can descend into civil war so ridiculously easily, it is inherently unstable. Reinhard knew this, which is why on his death bed he permitted the existence of a Parliament hoping that the ambitious would go there instead of the military.

>If your Empire can descend into civil war so ridiculously easily, it is inherently unstable.
But what if we're in season 1, and I hand a piece of paper to a top admiral which says "GOVERNMENT BAD"?

Thus proving that republics and democracies are doomed to failure too.

Attached: Arthur_Lynch_(DVD-CA).jpg (636x476, 89K)

That happened after Alliance suffered arguably the biggest military blunder in human history, FPA Military getting completely humiliated by the Empire, just because of reelection concerns.
Military Coups have been started over less.
I would agree that maybe having the catalyst be an ex-PoV is not the best execution

It's a goal Reinhard understands and sets with people like Silverberg and Gluck. Lynch was just Reinhard exploiting the fissures in an already corrupt Alliance, and only just to buy him some breathing room for his own civil war against the high nobles. Contrasting this, Ruenthal's rebellion, and all the other instances where someone's brilliance invites ambitious people or jealous people rather than stability in the show is constantly critiqued as the open flaw in the ideology itself rather than the corruption of an institution.

>That "Sieg Kaiser" part could just be result of the fact that most soldiers and officers serving Reinhard just 5 years ago were serving under the High Nobles, where such shovinistic loyalty must have been the disciplinary doctrine
It's never referenced that way, and Reinhard seems completely surprised by its very existence, and neither he nor Hilda make any mention of it being a revival of some past habit. Given the long-term decline of the Goldenbaums it's also unlikely you had officers caring about greeting each either with Sieg Kaiser since noble society was completely decentralized and the last kaiser couldn't care less about giving anyone any favors for loyalty unless you happen to be an underage blonde qt.

If anything, underhanded corruption and bribery as a show of loyalty was more common, and almost all the chauvinism from people loudly proclaiming something for show revolved around the sanctity of high nobility.

>rather than the corruption of an institution
Yes, but the only democratic institution that isn't corrupt in the show is the Isherlorn Republic, right after it's founded by a hero. If you want to take a consistent message from both sides, its that every system of government goes to shit over time, and only the leadership of a Great Man can renew society. That's the long arc of both the Empire and the Alliance, plus Reinhard's government

Attached: 800px-Cole_Thomas_The_Course_of_Empire_Desolation_1836[1].jpg (800x498, 89K)

What I meant is that under High Nobles officers often treated service men like shit, I think it was implied somewhere in either the show or supporting material, most likely with strict discipline, and even if High Nobles didn't have people going around hailing anybody, recruits most surely were drilled into showing respect when in presence of said nobles.
So when power changed, this instinct of "Respect Nobility" changed to "Respect Kaiser", while their general approach most likely stayed the same.

>in either the show or supporting material
Castrop Rebellion, I think. At least in DNT, he was beat his bridge officers at one point. Though he was a special kind of asshole, and that's not a representative sample.

I think it was deduced from Imperial ship description, maybe the battleship, that said that run of the mill crew lived at lower levels in very cramped rooms.

In one of the Gaidens, enlisted Empire soldiers didn't even have a washer and dryer for their clothes.

There is also the class split to consider, where its reasonable to assume that majority of officers were nobles where as almost all enlisted men would be commoners or "disgraced" nobility.

FPA ships were described as being spartan as well. I think cramped quarters come with the territory on a space warship.

Yang did, but his government was a bunch of shills bought out by the Jews and the Jews presented themselves as peasants to appease the Monarchists

The terraists are largely reflective of most terrorist organizations these days which is fucking impressive for an 80s and 90s animation. Most these organizations want to establish pointless governments based around ancient relics while impeding actual countries

Honestly I want to emphasize they did terrorism really fucking well in this show

I disagree. Corruption can always occur, but that's not at all a message anymore than 'people die' is a message. Corruption in the show is a catalyst for men of virtue or ambition to be pushed outside of a system and gain a personal following, but that's never presented in a good way. It's always a good thing for the individuals as people because they can go around the restrictions of a corrupt institution, but it's not at all seen as a way to renew society.

Reinhard reforms society because he feels it's his duty to Kircheis and to prove himself different from the nobles, while Yang helps save the republican ideal but fighting any impulse or choice that would make him more than a career soldier serving a civilian government, then later helping his friends. They're consistently shown to be good people respected by their close friends, but the idea of casting them as Great Men who will replace the corruption of the old order is disparaged by them both.

they had stuff like tabbles as part of bulkheads, where as I think for Empire ships they highlight a very visible disconnect between lower crew and upper command

>Corruption can always occur, but that's not at all a message anymore than 'people die' is a message.
No, the point is that the arc of a society, from it's founding is always downward. The message is not that 'Corruption can occur' but that 'Corruption will always occur'. Any system will degrade over time, and only martial virture can restore it. This is not a new idea - It was the premise of Aristotle's four forms of government - but it seems to be the one embraced by the series.

Obviously it's not a good thing, but it's a view that can be supported by historical argument.

>So when power changed, this instinct of "Respect Nobility" changed to "Respect Kaiser", while their general approach most likely stayed the same.
It's described as a trend that was just starting, and we never see Reinhard and Siegfried encountering it while they were junior officers. The closest that comes to mind is people denouncing others to the military police to have them arrested for lese majesty or being a secret republican, but this is more 'Fear the Nobility' than respect. In this new case it was about fellow officers greeting each other, and reporting a lack of enthusiasm in their rivals, but the stakes and context are very different since it's now about the glorification of the new order being a way to rise up the ranks in lieu of military accomplishment, while the previous order it was about rooting out sedition and suppressing threats to the established order.

That sounds like you're injecting an outside message onto the show, which specifically has both Reinhard and Yang denouncing the idea that 'martial virtue can restore' a system when they specifically point out the ironies and crimes of Rudolf's legacy. Rudolf did not restore a decayed republic, he corrupted it with a different sort of malice that both protagonists could see and tried to actively avoid in their own popular leadership.

The only factions that actively praised the idea of martial virtue restoring a corrupted system were the likes of the Alliance warhawks, the military coup, and the Lippstadt alliance, and all of them were BTFO for it.

Also interesting that the only other great reformist of the show's lore was Heinessen who did not renew society but actively ran away with as many downtrodden people as he could. He embodies more of what Yang and Reinhard recognized as greatness: caring for those closest to you and never accepting subjugation to others.

>"The actions of terrorists will never change the course of history."
And he was right.

>Heinessen
He created his own parallel society basically from scratch. He was obviously an impressive leader, so I'm not sure what your point is.

>for an 80s and 90s animation.
It was adapted from novels in the late 70s to early 80s.

>The only factions that actively praised the idea of martial virtue restoring a corrupted system were the likes of the Alliance warhawks
And Reinhart, who actually did it.

Heinessen died before the fleet arrived.

That he didn't renew a corrupt government, didn't use any military force, and his greatness came from how much he cared for his fellow man and helped them, not how much he swept away a decaying order.

He didn't even create a parallel society, he held together a human migration across several decades and died before ever landing on the planet named after him.

Reinhard did not restore a corrupt system, he actively dismantled it and set completely new norms, and he looked down on anyone fighting to protect those systems.

>And Reinhart, who actually did it.
He openly stated that the throne would go to the person most fit, whether that be his wife, his kid, Reuental, or someone else.

Yes. His throne. The one which he seized, and from which he reconstructed society. The fact that he was a able to issue that edict and have it obeyed is basically the point.

I'm a fucking retard, I thought that said "marital" instead of "martial".

it's ok bro

Attached: 1555354103234.jpg (960x720, 111K)

That's actually why it has depth desu, the author thought about all of the topics beforehand and created a story out of it, acting as a bedrock for the actual animation

You're not wrong but
>acting as a bedrock for the actual animation
Why did it look so bad then, even for standards at the time?

no, I mean the story had more depth because a man actually had time to think it out for years instead of the plots of shows of other mediums because they often do not take as much time to develop those said plots, leading to plots and storylines with somewhat less depth

And I thought the animation was pretty good, at least at the start

The best example I can think of is how unnatural it looks whenever someone pounds their hand down on something and the camera shifts to it for effect.

Yeah wtf, the animation actually feels like it gets a little worse as the show goes on, Not by much but it bothers me. Especially since in the movie Overture the animation is actually pretty crisp.

It dosent necessarily get worse, it just changes (mainly due to time period), it started in the late 80s where everything was sparkly and had that futuristic aesthetic, and in the 90s the animation had to change it's style since everything was changing around it. (at the end though the ships did look quite nice, especially the shadows)

Seeing the ships just shoot at one another and explode without actually moving felt really low quality. There isn't much happening when the characters are talking most of the time either, but that's to be expected at least.