Why are casual viewers so afraid of grain and uncropped 4:3 (black bars)?

Gundam Seed

NO FUCKING WAY
I thought you losers were bitching about funi fucking up the footage for no reason
did they actually cut down the aspect ratio?!
Are they retarded? did they lose their fucking mind? who are they to crop the damn footage?

The grain and color isn't a complaint, it's really nothing. It doesn't look liike they removed the grain, it looks like they completely rescanned the thing, either way it looks alright picture wise but that crop, fuck no.
You don't fuck with the aspect ratio. you are destroying the original composition.

Grain is texture. Sure it's unintentional, but it doesn't look bad.

the grain carries with it undeniable charm, regardless, and i'd rather have the original master than something put through a program to remove the grain.

I agree, I'm just saying that they don't remove the grain to make it look closer to the cels, they remove the grain because some people just don't like grain. It isn't an artistic choice, it's a marketability choice.

DBZ isn't the only TV series or movie to have this happen. I think they did it with some Disney animated movies too and probably some live action stuff too.

>probably some live action stuff too.

OP here, can confirm as I recently rewatched Terminator 2 (the extended cut) and was shocked to find that everything looked like it was smeared in vaseline.

Apparently they did the same thing with Predator so I just went ahead and bought it on VHS when I saw it at a thrift store.

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Remastering to improve visual quality is fine (which is important for HD viewing) but aspect ratio modification is retarded.

If it was filmed in 4:3, just leave it that way. If you can't stand that then zoom in your TV on your own or force the image to stretch. Disrupting the original quality and mandating that across the board for anyone who watches is letting the whiners decide for everyone.

Removing grain doesn't improve image quality and often gets rid of detail. Just like aspect ratio shouldn't be change there shouldn't be an automatic algorithm going through and changing the way the image looks. Or at the very least, like you said, it shouldn't be forced on everyone else.

Fun fact: Old Disney movies adopted the [then] new meme of using widescreen format at the cinema because of whatever dumb reason executives had, even though they still made their movies in 4:3 and they were 4:3 when released in vhs.

I don't know about that. Where did you hear that? Movies moved on from 4:3 quite a while in the past but the home releases still needed to be 4:3. I don't know if VHS was made with 4:3 in mind and it was stuck like that, it probably was, but people still used 4:3 TVs at home and television was still filmed and shown in 4:3 because of that. Widescreen movies just had to be changed to fit 4:3. I've seen a video of one of Disney's movies showing how they changed it from 16:9 to 4:3. They had to essentially create a square of what was to be on frame in the 4:3 version and make sure the important stuff was always in this square. I'm pretty sure that's what pan and scan is. I remember an example from Ghostbusters too where the widescreen version had two characters in frame talking in a car but the VHS version only had one character on screen at a time and the camera moving back and forth as they talked.

There were movies released in widescreen on VHS but they were essentially 4:3 frames with the entire movie image shrunk to fit into that square, with black bars at the top and bottom.

People reacted so strongly to the Predator BD that there's a new release with grain lol.

Something, something.
dvdizzy.com/oar.htm

It saddens me greatly when I see people supporting grain removal. Shows such a fucking surface level of film preservation.

>that black crush

Disgusting.

tfw no filter to add grain on mpv

kys fag

No, I will not kiss you. Stop asking.

I know it's fucking sad isn't it. And shows just how stupid the average idiot is.

I know something like the aspect ratio is easier to point out, but look at the 30th anniversary box set Funi's releasing. They seem to think they can just coast on having it be in 4:3, while keeping all their other shitty practices. I don't even know if they understand why what they're doing is bad.

Adding grain that wasn't there in the first place is retarded. I don't like grain for the grain, I like grain because that's how a show was originally made and I hate when people tamper with artwork in both anime and manga.

>Adding grain that wasn't there in the first place is retarded.
It's actually cool. We had a thread years ago where people manually added grain to some modern shows and it was crazy how good it looked.

got an archive link?

Amercians are cancerous idiots, that's why.

>Americans
The grain filtering is in Japanese blurays. If anything most of it is just the US releases using the same video as the Japanese releases. Not the aspect ratio stuff but the grain removal is definitely something Japan is doing.

What was his tax policy?

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>What's wrong with this?
It's pillarboxed.
If you want to watch it on a good PC CRT 4:3 Monitor for example you're stuck with hideous black bars even on a 4:3 display.

>The remastered version is closest to what was on the original cels and therefore the original intent.
No it isn't idiot.
You can't remove grain without destroying detail.

The only reason to get cel quality is to reshoot the original cels themselves(preferably with a digital camera)

>The problem is the grain removal is done by an automatic tool.
That's not the problem.
You cannot remove grain without destroying picture quality, you just can't. It's impossible.

Why are you watching blurays on a CRT screen? Go watch the DVDs or VHS releases. Bluray releases are made for 16:9 screens. Most CRTs people are likely to have don't even run at a high enough resolution to make watching blurays on them worth it. If you're trying to watch blurays on a CRT screen you're not even going the full nostalgiafag mile.

Depends on how well the film stock itself has aged. Grain is shit for animation let's be honest here(anyone who has seen actual cels agrees) but removing it is a no-go since you destroy the picture quality itself.

It just is what it is.
Ideally if companies didn't get rid of their cels we'd be able to reshoot whole series in digital(nowadays with much higher resolution than film like 8k or 16k so the lines would look even better) and look perfect but that's not the case.

Doesn't the Blu-ray spec have some kinda of forced aspect ratio shit by now?

Dragon Box representin'.

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They've been doing this since the orange bricks.
Amerifats love to buy cheap trash so they sold like hot cakes for FAILmation. Fuck them and Toei, fucking cunts.

Digitally made anime isn't even usually made at 1080p. What makes you think they'd shoot old cels at 8k or higher? And if you get the resolution too high I think you'd start getting even more real life stuff in your footage. Like even at 1080p stuff like cel shadows are really obvious.

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The left side is the version FUNImation attempted to do when they wanted to do it properly(although Toei gave them shitty prints so it's darker looking and grainier but they did a really good job with what they had) before the canceled it 2 releases in because they are a bunch of cunts who did this after just having released the fucking Dragon Boxes which were in limited supply and cost a ton so many fans were out of cash and they couldn't afford to buy this version.

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>director puts time effort and love into framing and composition
>lets just throw this all out the window and do whatever we want

It's kind of funny how people complained about the fandubbers being disrespectful to the source by smearing in a ton hypercolored text and trash when the literal business that handles distribution does this shit to the work.

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Are there dvd boxes with 4:3 ratio for dbz? I'm watching episodes on watchcartoononline and I think it's zoomed in to get 16:9

This. I'm not one to care about the "artist's original vision", but pan-and-scan just doesn't work on anime.

I'll take left's aspect ratio (and a little of the grain) with right's colors. That seems like the right balance.

>please support animation
>localizers act ruin the footage and charge a load for it that the studios will never see.

Man, our hobby's really broken isn't it? It's not even inconvenient, it's straight up broken.

>Are there dvd boxes with 4:3 ratio for dbz?
Yes.
>I'm watching episodes on watchcartoononline
Kill yourself.

This

Literally the biggest fucking corporation on Earth now doesn't even give a shit.

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>Kill yourself.
why

Yes. BD's have to be 16:9 to conform to the spec. is a well-intentioned retard.

Funimation is 100% doing intentional DNR on their 30th anniversary home release.

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Lurk for 3 years before posting.

Why did the YYH blu rays come out really well? Did Funi not touch those?

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I said they'd be able to, not that they would.
Japs are cheap as fuck unfortunately.

>Why are you watching blurays on a CRT screen?
Why not?
Good PC CRT monitors destroy 99% of modern screens anyways and they're good for 4:3 content.

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That's not Microsoft

jokes aside I don't give a shit about what Disney does. their work was dogshit even before fucking up the footage so it makes no difference to me.

I just wish there was a damn company that wanted to actually distribute anime properly that was a part of the industry. Hell I don't care if their dubs are only meh as long as thye don't fuck with the script to put in their politics and fuck up the footage

That's the least of the problem they have.
What they did to Robin Hood and Sword in the Stone and Cinderella etc. among others was something much more disgusting.

I don't know why they can't offer both versions either way.
And while they're at it re-release Fantasia with the original commentary instead of the dubbed one(give us an optional audio track even if some of it is missing like Disney claims).

Disney is really a whole other can of worms. What they've been doing to some of their classics in Blu-ray is downright repulsive.

Funi only handles NA distribution. The YYH JP BD's look just fine as well. Bandai probably just gave Funi their encodes so all they had to do was dubbing and branding.

this so much this

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It's called open-matte
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_matte

Disney used to use it back in the day.

>It's actually cool.
Neck yourself retarded hipster.

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Speaking of which, what's the best version of DBZ to download?

Pleb.

There's no Japanese blu-ray release of Dragon Ball/Z idiot.

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Reminder that the Dragon Boxes are the Japs version of the Orange Bricks.
They hate the horrible audio quality and were disappointed that Toei didn't bother fixing the colors as well as Toei not going back to the original film negatives but using the first film print as source.

>Why not?
You might as well watch blurays on a 720p flatscreen. Usually people that go on and on about CRTs say they're best for things made to be shown on them. I don't know if you do that but blurays are made for HD 16:9 displays. You're not getting the full benefit of blurays if you're watching them on a CRT unless you're one of the few people that have an HD CRT. If you really want to you could always download the rips that remove the black bars and watch it that way but I still think it's fairly pointless.

I don't think they "made the movies for 4:3" though. They were designed for widescreen but they kept in mind that the home release would be 4:3 so they didn't have to do much more work to convert it to that. I remember someone saying that the Twin Peaks TV series was filmed in 16:9 for some reason but there's never been a release of it in anything other than 4:3. I think I heard something about Malcolm in the Middle widescreen releases having things that weren't supposed to be shown on the screen there too.

I'm talking in general. I have a hard time believing that but maybe it's true. But there are plenty of Japanese releases of things that are grain filtered. It isn't just the US doing it.

because it objectively looks like shit? go back to the 80s grandpa.

They're not, don't confuse companies being fuck retarded with viewers not wanting a proper HD release.

God this triggers me so much.

Those shitty digital altered looking colors
All of that removed dress detail
Missing sparkles all over the place
Altered shadows

Whoever did and/or authorized these releases needs to be publicly executed for this degeneracy.

I actually know people that hate grain. Hating letterboxing used to be a thing from what I saw but not so much anymore, at least in my experience.

I prefer the original, unedited version but "muh grain" is a fucking retarded meme when the only reason it's there in the first place is due to technical limitations at the time.

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I'd be all for refilming the cels digitally but that's nearly impossible most of the time and just filtering the existing video to remove grain destroys the art. It's not that I just like grain, it's that I don't want computer algorithms fucking with the art.

Hence why I said I still preferred the unedited version.

this
also the new version isn't a filter it's a damn rescan of the film.

That's not what I meant.
I meant that don't Blu-rays have the ability to override the TV's aspect ratio and force it to whatever aspect ratio it wants?

>Why did the YYH blu rays come out really well?
They didn't.
They looked like absolute shit.
Fucking garbage upscale.

It's irritating as fuck to think that the guy who worked on the Funi DBZ BD release probably convinced himself that the QTEC'ing, white/black clipping and 16:9 cropping were great ideas, and that he created the "definitive" DBZ home video release.

>You might as well watch blurays on a 720p flatscreen.
Why would I when I can watch it on a CRT monitor which can handle much higher resolutions than 1080p?

You don't seem to know much about CRT's do you? Not that I would expect you to.

About as much of a technical limitation as silent movies, and black and white films, but film coloration never works, and looks terrible

Stop trying to bring old things up to subjective "modern" standards. The grain is inherent to the production.

>I don't think they "made the movies for 4:3" though. They were designed for widescreen but they kept in mind that the home release would be 4:3
No dude.
Back in the day it was a common thing to do to make movies more cheaply, especially when it came to animation.

They didn't do this for every movie(Sleeping Beauty was in Cinemascope for example and was released on 35mm and even 70mm formats) but some of them were animated on a full frame(1.37:1) and then cropped to widescreen for some selected theaters(not all of them showed it widescreen because 4:3 cinema was still popular back then)

Way to miss the point dumbass, the first sentence in my post is literally
>I prefer the original, unedited version

>But there are plenty of Japanese releases of things that are grain filtered. It isn't just the US doing it.
Nowhere near as much as American ones.
Japs usually just upscale shit if they can't use the original negatives.

And by Amerifats being cancer, I meant the cancerous idiots who keep buying them by the millions just because it's "LE EPIC WIDESCREEN SEASON SETS HD(even though it's on fucking DVD)"
It's still pisses me off how popular the Orange Bricks were, fuck Funimation and fuck Amerifats.

The film is what has the grain on it. To get rid of the grain you have to scan the film and then filter the resulting video.

>CRT monitor which can handle much higher resolutions than 1080p?
Where did you get a CRT monitor with a higher resolution than 1080p? I'm sure they existed but I'm sure they're not common. Do you have a link to what you have so I can see?

>Nowhere near as much as American ones.
Bluray releases of older stuff that aren't grain filtered are pretty uncommon.

Then the grain isn't a meme, is it? It pisses me off when people act like DNR isn't a big deal. It's butchering old releases for the exact reason 16:9 crops get done.

>popular the Orange Bricks were,
Sorry user.

>afraid

Nobody is afraid of grain, people are just not retards who feel attatched to imperfections because of nostalgia

You're still missing the point, it's a dig at people who think the grain is some great aesthetic choice and completely different without it.

Most people aren't attached to grain, they're attached to the detail in the video that removing the grain also removes.

>it's a damn rescan of the film.
It's probably the same as the bluray boxsets years ago AKA a slightly better version of the crappy Orange Bricks.

I doubt it's an actual rescan, it's probably the same scan they did 5-6 years ago for the Blu-ray Season Sets and they just edited it a bit on MSPaint.

Remember that until Toei does this shit themselves and properly we will never get a good DB/Z release and Funi will keep milking retards over and over with their shit releases.

I mean, a feature like that would be fairly trivial to implement. You'd just scale the video to within the bounds of the screen dimensions and lay black underneath to fill in the gaps on the sides. As I said though, BD's have to be 16:9 from the very beginning, so that shit is baked on by the distributor.

>Where did you get a CRT monitor with a higher resolution than 1080p? I'm sure they existed but I'm sure they're not common.
You can't be serious right?
Most PC CRT Monitors used to have 1600x1200 resolution it was very common. 1024x768 ones were also extremely commonplace.

Also there's some really high-end CRT projectors out there with a high enough scanrate to even do 4K(although they never supported it natively so you'd have to hack it to make it work)

This, at least when it comes to Animation.
I do like grain in Live Action Movies though, I dunno why but I like Live Action better on Film than in Digital.

Because some people have shit TVs and/or cant change the settings on their TV for optimal viewing. Also newfag tastes.

>BD's have to be 16:9 from the very beginning
A huge lie because this was never ever specified. Which is why there's so many 4:3 Blu-ray releases out there.

It's moronic amerifat normalfags who equate HD with "16:9 Widescreen" who think that.

>1600x1200 resolution
Ah, okay, I was actually thinking about it wrong. Now that you type out this resolution I can see what I was thinking about. I was thinking about HD widescreen CRTs when I was talking about stuff being uncommon. In any case like I said, blurays are made for 16:9 TVs. I guess it's like someone else said, hardcoding the black bars keeps scaling issues from happening.

>Because some people have shit TVs and/or cant change the settings on their TV for optimal viewing.
There is no TV in 2019 that doesn't let you tinker with the aspect ratio.
Even cheap Vizio trash can do it. Fuck outta here.

>Which is why there's so many 4:3 Blu-ray releases out there
Any examples that are actually 4:3 and not 4:3 with hardcoded black bars? I haven't actually bought anything in 4:3 on bluray I don't think. Just movies that are widescreen but not 16:9 but I'm pretty sure most of those have hardcoded black bars too.

>Yuropoors can't afford multiple copies of the same old show
isn't anime haram or something Achmed?

>blurays are made for 16:9 TVs.
This is patently false.
There's plenty of 4:3 or 21:9 Blu-ray releases out there.

I wonder why they just haven't put in a feature in Blu-ray players to crop the footage for retarded normalfags by now.
Normalfags don't want to zoom the image, they just want to "fill the screen" so following that logic they could add some extra hardware/software so that the company releasing it is able to crop the image in real-time with manual coordinates which would be executed by the player itself and that way both us purists and the normalfags would be happy.

That's not the point you dumb amerifat.
The point is you keep buying the same garbage releases over and over thus enabling FUNItrash to milk you for all your money while giving you a trash product.

>There's plenty of 4:3 or 21:9 Blu-ray releases out there.
That are actually 4:3 and not the original video with hardcoded black bars? I'm not saying there aren't plenty of 4:3 and other non-16:9 resolution content released on bluray I'm saying most, if not all of them, have hardcoded black bars to get them to 16:9. So if you watch them on a 16:9 screen there's not much difference between that or watching an actual 4:3 video and having the TV add black bars itself.

Wasn't Twilight Zone on Blu-ray 4:3 with no hardcoded bars?
Then again I pirate all my shit so I dunno. I think 21:9 films having hardcoded bars is worse because of the loss in resolution(a lot of 800p 21:9 movies on bluray because of that). With 4:3 you don't lose resolution on the other hand.

Why does it have grain in the first place? It looks like digital animation

>zoom in and use some waifux2 shit on your series
>charge you hundreds of dollars for it
Just one question, isn't this illegal? Sound like a scam.

Film is the superior medium in general, no matter what's being viewed.

you can't add details in edit, and sharpening/removing grain/ upping the color quality isn't magic

the grain can also come from a bad scan
digital grain is a thing, it happens when you have very high iso, which is probably what they did

This, unfortunately. Dragonball Z is too popular with dumb fuckers that it makes more financial sense to appeal to their retardicity, since dumbasses have money too.

This is just sad.

Keeping trying to find a download of the original aspect with all audio options. Original Jap, Eng voice and music, and Eng voice and Jap music. I only find either original aspect or cropped with all the audio.

wow the site about the 30th shows the original cells and how much more they show compared to the 4:3 cropped.(still much better than the 16:9) The cells are way better looking but they don't want to have small imperfections they say. Fuck that "hard core" fans would want to see all of the picture. Ill take seeing abit of a error on a 30+year old hand drawn image in the corner if i get to see all of the actual fucking thing. funimation.com/blog/2019/04/09/how-the-dragon-ball-z-30th-anniversary-collectors-edition-43-aspect-ratio-was-created/

Get both, reflux the audio yourself, make the definite release for ecred.

the ones that have the audio choice dick with the frame timings, audio looses sync really quick. I looked into it a few years ago. did comparisons and just said fuck that.

"because it looks dirty and doesn't fit muh modern tv in full"
These same retards are the ones that seemingly can't press a button on the remote of their tv to zoom it or stretch it to their tv's aspect ratio. If they could remove the grain without smearing the image then that would be fine, but otherwise just leave it because it's part of it due to how it was made.