What do you think of this series, Yea Forums? Sometimes, I see it mentioned in retrospective, pre-21st century anime and manga threads, or specifically 1970s or 1980s threads. I don't yet have an indication of what the majority of Yea Forums posters seem to really think of it, though, so let's see your thoughts. One of the most positive qualities of the series for me is its soundtrack. I have often listened to the OSTs, especially background music that plays during the episodes. There was one background music piece that never made it onto any of the OSTs, which involved a haunting female wailing, alongside a synthesizer, such a theremin. It was an intriguing piece, befitting the tone of intrigue throughout this series. I also like the "Yasashisa no Okuri Mono" and "Kanashimi" pieces of music, although I only remember the latter featuring in one episode only, I think it was one of the earlier ones, when André wakes up in the barn or stable after dreaming.
The Rose of Versailles
remember that time andre tried to rape oscar then stalked her to her new workplace the next day. good times.
I feel bad for the character, yet rightfully so, that one scene made me lose respect for him. He quickly became sympathetic again, however, especially benefitting from how he had not done that to Oscar. Let’s take a moment to examine Andre’s possible motivation for wanting to do that to her, though. By that point in the series, he was consumed by a mix of love and lust for her, and though Oscar was almost always on friendly terms with Andre, even admiring him at times as a loyal friend and servant, Oscar still decides that it is more important to distance herself from her life at Versailles, and the people she knew, including Andre at that point. Throughout the series, Andre did not seem to really know anybody else around his age except for Oscar, the only girl he had been seen to interact with, mostly. Andre probably had no one else he knew as well as Oscar, and despite their class differences, it makes sense that he aspired to vie for her attention, even competing at times with other men, such as Fersen, who was in turn Oscar’s unrequited love interest, to her unrequiting for Andre.
>"I'm not accompanying you, I'm just joining your company."
Oh well okay then.
He clearly wanted to get to close proximity with her, whatever it took, yet I think there is a slight element of coincidence, as well. It seemed that Andre wanted to join Alain and his squad, anyway, after a couple of meetings with him. Andre was feeling depressed and aimless up to that point.
It's a masterpiece and my favourite anime of all time by a large margin-- I'd go so far as to call it one of Japan's greatest artistic achievements. Aside from LOGH, nothing compares to it in terms of it's epic narrative scope and it also manages to be this swashbuckling adventure series and a depressing historical tragedy at the same time.
The funny thing about it though is that in terms of structure it feels less like an anime and more like an adaptation of a novel. That also makes it feel unique.
Oscar and Andre are both outsiders in their society. Oscar is an outsider because of the conflict between her duty to the crown and her own morals. Issues with her gender identity also mean she struggles to maintain many close friendships. Andre is an outsider because he's neither a peasant nor a noble, meaning he can't identify with either side in the revolution (this is why he couldn't join Bernard). In that sense, Oscar and Andre were meant for each other.
Overall, its main flaws are that it's a bit too long, and somehow dated especially in the way animation tries to hide QUALITY. Otherwise it's a great action shoujo that has some episodes with god-tier direction, a great plot and character arcs and a distinctive feel.
People aren't just repeating what they heard when they say VnB has a high place in anime history.
If Andre was not a peasant, what was he considered, then? I thought his social class was peasant, but he lived as a household servant, probably a job with pay in the form of a place to stay and sleep, and eat, as well as perhaps some money.
A serf, tied/bound to the family he worked for, or just a commoner whose parents maybe lived in the area, and started working for the Jarjayes family at some point? I am not particularly familiar with what 18th century French societal classes were.
The fact he had access to all the luxuries of the aristocracy is what set him apart for the peasants. It's hard to compare him to either Rosalie or Alain because he managed to escape the crushing poverty of the lower class at a very young age. He also has no connections in Paris unlike Rosalie and Alain, which means he doesn't really "belong" there like the other two. Oscar and Andre don't really belong on either side of the conflict, which means they can actually weigh up the conflict from an outsider's perspective. That's exactly what they did in the DuBarry arc, and as the series goes on they both see all the different sides of the conflict before finally committing to join the revolution.
Anime Telenovela.
That gif does remind me of the general tone of many scenes throughout this series. I wonder what the inspiration for that style of presentation was in it, something of a Japanese convention from the 1970s? I don’t mind the drama, though, and many times, or seems natural to me. I think people back then in France might have been a little more emotional in outlook than the modern French.
masterpiece.
I will rewatch it again later this year.
Nah. When I think of anime soap opera I think of this.
I am already rewatching it, which I plan to do slowly, just as my first viewing. I am currently on episode 8, and I might finish by the end of summer.
Its great, inspired Utena and others, which is also great. More people need to watch it but its too old.
I actually began thinking about ROV a lot after I started watching LOGH for the first time, then I went back and rewatched a few episodes & remember how good it was.
Inspiration wise, Nagahama (the director of the first half of the series) was known to have been strongly influenced by Kurosawa, and Dezaki developed his style from both Tezuka and Nagahama himself.
As for the whole influence of melodrama, I think it was just down to the fact that melodrama was considered fashionable in the 60's and 70's-- It's not like today where melodrama is generally stigmatised. This means that you'd get more series like RoV, where any melodrama was completely intentional and a stylistic choice.
I rewatch it yearly, sometimes more. Even after all these years since I first watch it, RoV has left a hole in me that's yet to be filled.
A good anime, beautiful but a bad adaptation, cut and changed important things in history
Well, it is a fictional story. I think ROV does a great job at showing aristocratic behavior, and the plight of the French people.
I'd say all of the major historical events and figures are present, though.
How was it bad as an adaptation? What did it lack to more accurately represent that?
Even though the anime is less historically accurate than the manga (Ass Creed Saint Juste being the most extreme example of this), it's still 95% historically accurate.
Aside from Oscar, Andre, Alain and Bernard, literally every single character in the series was a real person, even Rosalie and Oscar's father.
While I enjoyed it, I don't think I will ever rewatch it. It is quite long and the story has many tragic moments.
Stuff from the 70s like Treasure Island, Aim For The Best!, Anne of Green Gables, and Heidi are great and all but they are too long. At least for me.
Saint Juste was so cool in the anime, I wish he was around more.
>Baby has a vagina
>"It's a boy"
Oscar's father was truly ahead of his time
did anyone else go to france and visit versailles palace just because of RoV? because I did.
It'd probably be the only reason I'd want to go to France in this day and age tbqh.
I'm still amazed that the layout of Versailles in both the manga and anime is practically a 1:1 layout of the real place.
also, the artwork from various scenes of the anime are in the palace as well.
I can't imagine the amount of research that was undertaken to make the series.
the original, from the ceiling of the apollo salon
It's just great. Both the manga and the anime are indisputable essentials if you're at all interested in manga and anime. They pretty much exemplify the height of their genres and demographics never mind how niche those might be, and you come to understand the entire medium more because of how influential it actually was.
But more importantly they're just compelling and very well executed.
I guess it would not be erroneous to call it melodramatic, but at the end of the day you need to consider whether that is inherently a bad thing. One point of RoV's tension and drama, I think, is that it kind of is larger than life. The setting is the prelude to a time of turmoil and social upheaval, literally one of the most important events in human history. Sometimes it flares up as perhaps needlessly dramatic and tragic stuff, but the story and characters do not suffer because of that.
Oscar's death makes sense considering the character and the setting, and if you know anything about history the fate of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI will not come off as surprises. Really, I'd say that one of the most important parts of the entire story is the dramatic irony that comes from knowing to what the events will ultimately lead to.
Also, I forgot to mention that I'd probably go and visit Rosalie's grave as well. Coincidentally, she's buried in the same cemetery as Oscar Wilde, who is apparently one of Ikeda's favourite authors.
A criticism I have with a lot of the academic analysis surrounding RoV is that it focuses primarily on gender politics/feminist aspects of the series, despite that only being roughly 40% of what the series is about. Primarily, RoV strikes me more as an attempt to counter the Jacobin propaganda against Antoinette, and also (like you very nearly touched on) about the fact that monarchy was doomed to failure due to various factors and absolutely nothing could have changed that.
People were less uptight about "rape" in the distant past of the 1980s.
soundtrack was awesome.
i liked the show a lot. right away i felt like it was a special show. it does have a period drama vibe in many episodes so i understand it's not a show for everyone.
Yeah and I feel like people might not give Ikeda enough credit on how well she actually makes a fictitious story with a blend of fictional and real characters work in a setting of real historical events without making it contrived.
I don't know how to put it eloquently. I guess my point is that the story maintains a strong plausibility and suspends your disbelief only slightly. These things could have happened and would not have been entirely impossible, so the blend of fiction and truth works.
What RoV is really about I feel is about how privilege based class systems like that of the French monarchy not only corrupt and do harm to those at the top of the food chain, but that these systems will ultimately collapse with the passage of time and in accordance with changes in history.
I find it interesting that Rousseau is a philosopher both the anime and manga reference, when he’s someone who said something to the effect that people are born good, but society makes them evil. Think about this in terms of how characters like Antoinette and Jeanne are portrayed in the series and you’ll see how it applies. In fact, every character who does something wrong does it because of either social pressures or out of a desire to climb the social ladder. The tragedy is that it all proves pointless anyway, because history rules that the revolution MUST happen. It was totally inevitable due to volcanic eruptions affecting crops and the monarchy being economically unsustainable, so it shows that Ikeda did her homework reaching that conclusion. That’s why the narrator spoils events in the story. The story is set in stone, and nothing anyone can do willl stop it from playing out in the way it does.
I’m amazed that a story of this thematic complexity was something that was published as a romance drama for teenage girls. Ikeda is far beyond her peers as a writer for sure.
Oh no no no no no
I've been thinking about futa Oscar pegging Andre, and then fucking Marie Antoinette and Rosalie lately. Help
Don't tell me this is from the official game
you have mental issues
but that just reminded me about Andre not being a virgin before sleeping with Oscar. instead he lost his virginity to some prostitute in Paris
It's a masterpiece and the manga is one of my all-time favorites.
I really wish more people experienced this story, because it deserves all the reputation it gets and even more. I'd love to read more Riyoko Ikeda manga, specially Orpheus no Mado.
>40 episodes
>too long
Modern anime sure has shortened people's attention spans with all the shitty 12 episode series that don't even have time to properly flesh out their plots and characters. Back then 50+ episode series were commonplace. 40 episodes is a good amount of episodes for all the characters and arcs that RoV had
>I'd love to read more Riyoko Ikeda manga
don't remind me. scanlations never.
>you have mental issues
Don't we all?
Where are the doujins
ouch, that fucking hurt.
It's a shame that vintage shoujo manga artists like Ikeda, Moto Hagio or Keiko Takemiya barely get attention from scanlations
typical French slut
>tfw Oscar will never show you how rough she can be
Why must life be so cruel?
My question is why they don’t get official translations? RoV’s official translation process has been a trainwreck thus far, and Moto and Takemiya barely have any translations. Eurofriends have no idea how lucky they are having official translations for a lot of Year 24 manga.
Simply: they're too old usually. The market don't care for older manga that much.
I didn't know RoV was going to be released in the US. I'm from Brazil (which has an even worse manga market than the US) and they started publishing it here like two months ago and they're almost done with it, and I hardly doubt there'll be more older shoujo manga after that.
Europeans are really lucky to have that and it'll probably sell way better there than it would in the Americas.
take that back
oscar is pure.
>canonically had sex
>pure
user...
she had sex ONCE with the man she LOVED.
this is pure.
I like how the anime made Robespierre into some sort of a fucking super villain
>Robespierre
you mean saint juste?
>I didn’t know RoV was going to be released in the US
It’s supposed to be. The company keeps pushing back the release date without providing any explanation as to why. They’re really bad at giving updates about progress too. It’s a complete mess and absolutely no one else has an interest in translating it because they hold the license.
I doubt we'll ever get that official translation at this rate.
Maybe there’s hope for other Ikeda manga?
Claudine got translated a year or 2 ago, so maybe her other work might be picked up eventually. RoV is pretty much an immortal classic at this stage, so it’ll keep getting attention forever even without an official release. The problem is that RoV has overshadowed the rest of Ikeda’s library, so correcting that is a bigger priority.
oscar is the most beautiful
>so beautiful that everyone she meets falls in love with her
>is more manly than any man, but is still incredibly nuturing
>even her enemies admit their physical and intellectual inferiority to her
>selfless and altruistic to an inhuman degree
>could have found love with anyone, including the future king, rejects them all in favour of her childhood friend
>singlehandedly destroys one of the key symbols of the monarchy
>can be charming, intimidating and inspiring all at once
Is Oscar the perfect woman? How can one girl be this amazing?
bamp
OSKARRRRRR
In Italy the series was not called The Rose of Versailles, but just Lady Oscar.
I must agree
I didn't watch the anime, but I tried a bit of the manga and found it really dated and unengaging - the rapid fire presentation of a lot of the scenes, the exaggerated emoting and blunt characterization, even the visual layouts felt pretty stiff and space-wasting. It reminded me of like Glass Mask or something. Wound up dropping it pretty quickly.
I get not being able to stomach old shoujo manga, but at least give the anime a try, it's way easier to get into.
I'll get around to that someday, I swear.
Thing about the manga is that it is still a shoujo series, and an old one at that, and it's a trend setter in many ways.
But, as it goes on, it actually gets more and more serious, and pretty heavy too as the setting would suggest. The beginning with Marie Antoinette living a charmed life is typical airy shoujo nonsense, but suddenly it starts to pile on the romance, drama, plot, and tragedy. It's actually kind of weird because it happened in such a short time too. It wasn't a particularly long running series.
Anime is different. It has more focus on Oscar rather than the royal family, and it also tones down the comedic elements of the manga. The result is that the anime as a whole is quite a bit more serious in tone.
Glass Mask is a masterpiece as well though.
The tone shift really benefits the series, I think.
It means that you can grow attached to all the characters by seeing them in more fun and low stakes conflicts (especially true in the anime where the beginning of the series has more action-orientated adventure episodes), and then in the second half of the series everything comes crashing down on top of the characters as they all get axed one by one. It was at the end of the series when all the major deaths and tragedy had happened that I realised how much I missed the more tongue in cheek parts from earlier on. Having comedy and then having it give why to the tragedy just adds to the overall melancholy of the series.
>It reminded me of like Glass Mask or something
>implying that's a bad thing
HUH? just go away.
Hmm, I’ll have to check that out.
I agree, and I appreciated what the tone shift represented.
I can't stand that kind of storytelling approach, everything about it just feels amateurish and corny to me, it can't get me emotionally invested at all.
You know it was a stylistic choice in both cases, right? RoV and Glass Mask were both pioneers of that style.
Each to their own, I guess. I really miss that style I wish it was more common nowadays. Modern shoujo doesn't really feel the same for some reason-- Possibly because their stories aren't as interesting.
It seems as though the obvious ideas are used.
Oh the good ol' days.
I wouldn't say that. It's just that so many shoujo fall into a predictable format (that usually being a high school drama with a love triangle), and there isn't anything interesting really happening. One thing you have to credit the Year 24 group mangaka for is that they all took the basic genre principles of shoujo/josei and applied them to a large variety of settings ranging from gothic horror settings, to sci-fi setting, to historical ones. Even ones that were set in high schools felt original. Oniisama e for example has a really generic setting, but it feels unlike any other High School drama ever made because of it's oppressive atmosphere and the kind of topics it touches on.
Wrong. Pic related was literally described as being the most beautiful.
Oscar should have fucked that girl who wanted to prostitute herself to her.
Am I the only one who really liked Antoinette?
Sure, she's sheltered and pretty dumb, but she's also funny and cute. I loved her fawning over Oscar and scolding Louis XVI for everything.
Weird. I don't have a strong opinion about the show. I respect it as a classic. It has strong direction, good art and an epic story. But the shoujo elements are really cheesy and drag it down. And there are some really odd scenes and leaps of logic here and there. The final half, where the revolution begins, is really great. But everything leading up to it is a mixed bag. So I respect it as a classic, but don't really like it myself.