Why can't Japs do quality Sci-fi?

> Book of the Long Sun is overrated

You poor wretched creature

>Good shows

Yes, that is in fact what I said. You can speak english, right user?

test webm

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>why are YA cartoons not full of hard sci-fi
Why are Sci-Fi fans so fucking stupid?

Japan's future is sad and japs don't like thinking about it.

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>what is Gundam

Logans Run

Too fucking new or merely pretending?
Protip: lurk more, maybe you'll understand what my post meant one day

does that mean I'm japanese too?

If you think anime shouldn't be referred to as "shows" you're a goddamn retard and I genuinely couldn't care less about your opinion.

absolutely vapid reply

>tfw no Dune anime

yes, Ken-sama

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List of great sci fi films/television (narrowly defined to high technology) in history:
>twilight zone
>2001 a space odyssey
>star wars (OG trilogy)
>star trek
>blade runner
>the matrix
>interstellar
>the expanse
>westworld (season 1)
>legend of the galactic heroes
>ghost in the shell
>gunbuster
>evangelion
>bebop
>steins gate
>code geass

The nips have a pretty solid list of sci fi anime. They couldn't do real acting to save their lives, but anime sci fi they understand.

Fucking retard, I'll spoonfeed you just this once. The post meant that I don't think they are good.
You are welcome not to care about my opinion, but you clearly do care, otherwise you wouldn't have responded.

Space Opera that is using space as a cosmetic background to tell stories that might as well happen in the 20th century or medieval age =! Sci-Fi

Japan cannot into Sci-Fi because despite all the talk about them being some "high tech country" and their neon-lit cities, they are literally stagnating since the 90s.
Also, excessive conformism and their commercial nature is ruining any attempt at speculative sci-fi.

>Sidonia
I love Nihei's work but sidonia is one of his worst

This

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So it must seem like looking into a mirror then, no?

>the expanse
>code geass
Opinion discarded.

SEETHING

based and good taste

Gundam.

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Star Wars and Star Trek isnt sci-fi.

LOGH, as good as it is, is literally War and Peace in space and not Sci-Fi either.

>Everything they do is fucking Star Wars and Star Trek level.

I can't remember any recent space operas other than that LoGH remake.

Yeah I'm absolutely seething you don't care so much that you keep responding. At least use a buzzword that makes sense in context.

Last Exile, Dennou Coil, SSY and Noein are not star wars or star trek, user.

That's just four of the best, there are loads of others.

>LoGH remake
Stop reminding me that it exists

Kaiba was pretty decent until is went a;; End of Evangelion at the finish

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Yet it has some of the strongest hard sci-fi aspects among all space themed anime.

Soft sci-fi is still sci-fi you double nigger

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Dennou Coil is straight up bad and Last Exile's second half doesn't live up to the first one, but I agree with your other two pics, Noein in particular.

>he actually watched normalfag wars

Why there aren't many scifi isekai?

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>Dennou Coil is straight up bad
Not even Crazy Diamond can fix that level of shit taste

>ITT OP baits people into posting good sci-fi shows because they would call him gay if it was a /request/

So you're one of those that thinks sci fi must explore what weird tech does to people. I disagree.

I'm glad you appreciate Noien but Dennou Coil is pure excellence, user. It can be a bit meandering but it's a perfect reflection of how mundane life collides with new technology, the fears and how people adapt to it. It's prophetic.

Last Exile is probably on the weaker side since it's just a steampunk adventure, but it's an example of the boom of good sci-fi anime that existed in the 2003-2007 era. It's laughable for people to suggest japan can't do sci-fi since they pretty much single-handedly carried the genre for a full 5 years.

I so fucking want a Three Body adaption, no matter live action or anime or whatever. And whoever can realize a visual depiction of universal warfare in the fourth dimension will literally become a legendary director.

It would be a waste of the setting if it was only used for flavor, dont you agree.

Here, I actually think that The Expanse is quite a bit better than LOGH in depicting macro-sociological and political problems coming from human space expansion.

Psycho-pass ? anyone ?

Spice and Wolf is a romance, but isn't it also a period piece, or a yokai anime? You could say the period and yokai elements are just there for flavor, but they're still a fundamental component of the experience; it wouldn't be spice and wolf without the setting or the wise wolf.
Rather than exclude LOGH from sci fi altogether, I'd rather exclude it from a certain subgenre of sci fi.

Psycho-pass is baby's first dystopia.

The Hyper Oats shitposting was good but the show is not well written and its setting is nonsensical and silly.

Gene Wolfe drones think the only purpose of a book is for the author to show how clever he is

It's OK if you think of it as a different thing that simply stole most of LoGH's ideas

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>Star Wars and Star Trek isnt sci-fi.

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>The Shadow of the Torturer

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>Star Trek isnt sci-fi

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> He has not seen Memories: magnetic rose

Now then... i can´t allow you insulting Jin Roh. Pick something else.

Romance and yokai first and foremost. Period piece it isnt, since none of the characters actually behave the way any european would behave back in the day during feudal times. This is one main weakness with Japanese writers: Lots of them cannot fathom the role of religion in everyday life back in medieval europe, and how it shaped inter-human behavior. This makes lots of """medieval""" period pieces feel like mexican soap operas. Isekai is especially a worst offender here, among other things.

The only actual Japanese media that depicts medieval setting well was that Bohemian Reformation/Hussite War manga whose name I forgot.

>Star Wars and Star Trek isnt sci-fi.

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>I don't know where to look for good sci-fi anime, so I'll just say there are none.

Classic.

It really isnt.

If you can tell the plot of both franchises without the involvement of any future technology, it isnt sci-fi.

who made this rule?

Star Wars not being Sci-Fi I can agree with... But what the hell is Star Trek if not Sci-Fi? Have you even watched any of it?

I Asimov's Foundation Sci-Fi to you?

tell me the plot of star trek without mentioning space ships or teleporters or holodecks
tell me the plot of star wars without space ships or vader's bullshit life support suit

I mean doesn't most animays have SciFi elements? Asides from Fantasy or Slice of Life ones.

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Scifi stuff is still happening. After all, this very season, we have some animu about a guy going on spaceventures with another guy.
And then there's that animu about two girls trying to sing and make originaru musiku when all music is already made by smart algorithms.

More like tell me the plot of Trek without mentioning an utopian future society.

Wars isn't Sci-Fi though.

Star Wars could just have happened in a 20th century setting, with prop-planes instead of X-wings and Tie-fighters, and some magical ancient jews instead of Jedi knights. The Galactic Empire wouldnt even work in real world, due to special relativity even with FTL: If you raised an army on a planet on the other side of the galaxy, that army would arive in a million years on the planet of its destination and the rebellion would have ended 900,000 years ago.

Star Wars, its entire galactic empire setting with rebellion shit etc. literally works only on Earth, or maybe in a single solar system.

I never knew dipshit sci-fi elitists existed like this
You've actually made my life worse by announcing your presence to me
Kindly bend over and fuck your own face

I'm reading Dick's book right now and got caught in it. What you find in it is subjective.

Star Trek is interesting, but its story could just as well be told during the 17th century age of exploration on a bizzarro earth where the Brits or Spaniards had a prime directive that wasnt colonization and genocide at the first sign of unknown sentinient life.

Star Trek is literally post-colonial coming-to-terms-with-one's-feelings-of-guilt and wish fulfillment.

Don´t know about Star Trek but i agree with the SW statement. SW is fantasy set in space. Bradbury defines sci fi as a depiction of the real and fantasy as a depiction of the unreal. For people that do not understand what that means, it means Sci fi extrapolates elements of reality taking some aspects to the extreme usually with the intention of adress the repercusions of the possible.

SW has space knights and space wizards fighting with light swords along with the ultimate shenanigan of asspulls, the force and the story revolves around a prophecy. As nothing of that falls into the realm of the possible SW should be filed under fantasy.

Time of eve
Planetes

Eh, Star Wars incorporates Dune shit and Flash Gordon shit, and thinking that mankind is capable of awesome stuff with their mind has been a staple of scifi since long.
But ultimately, it doesn't matter, and you folks oughta go back to your hellhole that is or or wherever you crawled from.

>tell me the plot of star trek without mentioning space ships or teleporters or holodecks
A a sailing ship visits a bunch of islands and the crew sometimes has some drama with the natives
>tell me the plot of star wars without space ships or vader's bullshit life support suit
An armada visits a bunch of islands and the crew sometimes kills the natives

kek

>tfw Interstellar would have been a good physics movie had it not had the inside blackhole segment
It was nice but felt kind of weird.

I fucking hate mecha.
That is all.

The Shadow of the Torturer isn't sci-fi, it's space fantasy exactly like Star Wars.

>t.OPMzoomer

Does this even count as Sci-Fi?

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I hate capeshit like OPM too.
>t.
>zoomer
Also go back to Yea Forums or whatever shithole you came from, retard.

>disliking OPM because it is capeshit
>not disliking OPM because it is literally empty sakugafaggotry and powerlevel garbage for all those Dragonball refugees

you are indeed a zoomer.

It's too expensive to make something of that scale unless it's a novel.

Dune.

Dune is not exactly sci-fi either, but rather the grandpa of all grand-scale space fantasy genre.

It is pretty good tho in how it explains away all iffy science questions and plot-holes by saying how "lol weapon technology and computers and shit is banned because of reasons which is why we fight with swords stop fcuking PM me about why they have swords that's why".

That this is not the first reply shows how deep Yea Forums has fallen.

Noone fucking remembers who moot was.

Traitors don't deserve to be remembered.

>good animation isn't a good enough reason to like an anime
What a world we live in.

It was top tier sci-fi until the last couple of episodes.

>interstellar
and this was when I knew that you were baiting

People with taste said nothing good about VEG either.

You can only go so far with "Superb Graphics" if the rest of the plot is a literal meme.

>thinking that mankind is capable of awesome stuff with their mind has been a staple of scifi since long.

Which is based on absolutely nothing. Would you call Lucy sci fi? no. Dark Tower? no. Dune? NO. Genres are a social contract and thus have stablished rules. Not knowing the rules only means you are ignorant, not that the rules do not apply or that you can arbitrarily decide which are valid and which are not. Genres are built accoring to corpuses and consensus.

And FYI the force is not a psychic power, it´s fucking faith power. Fancy space magic, not a scientific concept in any way.

>star trek isn't scifi
>dune isn't scifi

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That guy is wrong they are sci-fi but not pure.
They have immense fantasy elements so they are sci-fan not pure sci-fi.

>thinking interdimensional time dilation NTR is not sci-fi
>not liking the ending
That show was a masterpiece.

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You remind me of a retard that said that GiTS wasn't cyberpunk because the protagonists were cops.

>The Shadow of the Torturer
>Science Fiction

Pick one.

Except this is a false equivalent.

You cannot tell GiTS's plot without the technology and cyberbrain stuff, since they are integral to the understanding of the themes.

But you absolutely can tell SW and ST with low-tech equivalents. See:

>A a sailing ship visits a bunch of islands and the crew sometimes has some drama with the natives
That's the bare essentials of what makes Star Trek what it is.
>An armada visits a bunch of islands and the crew sometimes kills the natives
What the fuck are you talking about?

>You cannot tell GiTS's plot without the technology and cyberbrain stuff, since they are integral to the understanding of the themes.
A cop solves crime.

Crime that is involving people hacking into other people's brains to do stuff while a social media meme got a life on its own...

Damn, it is hard to translate GiTS into a 19th century victorian settting. If this happens with your story, then we can safely assume that it is proper sci-fi.

Sherlock Holmes does that all the time.

SW is literally simplified GOT with space ships.

Not scifi at all.

>Crime that is involving people hacking into other people's brains to do stuff while a social media meme got a life on its own...
Crime that involves hypnotizing people to do stuff while rumors and ideas get a life of their own.
That was real hard.

I know it's bait, but fuck you.

> Star Trek isnt sci-fi.
Laddie, don't you think you should rephrase that?

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Gunbuster is not genre fiction, though.
It actually asks interesting questions about the human condition and the science fiction setting is just a backdrop to explore the central questions of "how far do you go to win" and "how far SHOULD you go to win".
Noriko's answer to that is "winning the only thing that matters". It might as well be about playing tennis.

>Dennou Coil is straight up bad
Yeah, fuck you buddy. UNCHI!!

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The technology does not exist, it is fantasy, actually spending any amount of your story explaining why something that may as well be magic isn't is pretty much the definition of pseudo-intellectual.

If the story is about a society that is somehow used to have people using some form of drugs to get by daily life, and which makes them vulnerable to being hypnotized by random riff raffs for some reason, I could imagine a GiTS equivalent set in a steam-punk setting. But this would be extremely cumbersome and not really getting the transhumanist philosophical themes of the show at all.

>The technology does not exist, it is fantasy,
This applies to
2001 a space odyssey
blade runner
aliens
ghost in the shell
I Robot

That problem with defining sci-fi that way is that you end up making very arbitrary distinctions about what's 'possible'.
There's no reason to believe FTL travel is any more plausible than anything that happens in Haruhi, but it's a genre staple.

>Damn, it is hard to translate GiTS into a 19th century victorian settting
Why is that a problem?
Just make Motoko an agent of the crown and the puppet master a spymaster for foreign powers that coerces people using the carrot and the stick who chose Motoko to succeed him, because he's an eccentric old man.
Suddenly you can tell the same story with the same themes with no technology whatsoever

Sea Quest
Now that was some good Sci-Fi

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What I want to say is that the technology in lots of soft sci-fi space operas are completely non-essential to the basic themes of the story and are only empty facade.

LOGH can be competently told in a napoleon-era european setting, completely wasting all those space-ships, FTL travel, planet-hopping etc. The story itself is great, but the tech is there only for flavor.

If LOGH explored the difficulties of maintaining a interstellar society due to relativistic effects and the physical limitations of FTL travel, building the entire story and the themes around those problems, it would have been a proper sci-fi story.

And that is why The Romance of the Three Kingdoms is the greatest story written by man.

You could, but it wouldnt be complete. How can you explore transhumanism and post-humanism within a 19th century setting by using no future technology but carrot and sticks, as well as drugs?

pretentious faggots itt

It is basically a story about people fucking over each other with all sorts of dirty tricks. It's awesome and timeless.

Gundam is really good sci-fi imo. I was legitimately surprised when I started watching it. I also read a manga recently called 2001 ya monogatari that's more in line with western sci-fi. I thought it was good but not as good as a lot of western sci-fi I like. It had some interesting ideas though and is more hard sci-fi than you usually get in anime/manga.

>The technology does not exist, it is fantasy,
What the hell kind of logic is this? Sci-fi is almost always speculative fiction. It's about technology that doesn't exist but could feasibly exist. Are you saying stuff like War of the Worlds, Metropolis, or literally any sci-fi that isn't near future isn't sci-fi?

>star wars
>star trek
>quality sci fi
its as quality sci fi as isekais are quality fantasy

Pandora in the Crimson Urn is a nice story that explores what it means to be human by taking a look into the daily lives of a cyborg and a robot.

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yeah no blindside is bullshit
even rr martins sci fi novel forgot its name was better

Why is there no good sci-fi comedy manga?

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I like Gundam too, but I think "military science fiction" is really a genre on its own.

I do like the exploration of themes like the sociology of space-colony populations tho.

>Dennou Coil is straight up bad
You're a sad individual.

You have nothing to say with your retarded way of writing.

>How can you explore transhumanism and post-humanism
By thinking about industrialization and what it means that you now have to work as a cog in the machine, you dumbnut.

>but I think "military science fiction" is really a genre on its own.
Jesus fucking Christ.

Why are you so mad?
The question about "How Giant Fucking Robots Would Be Used In A Conventional War" is a legit question, but it isnt so much a SciFi question.

It is like Starship Troopers and Enders Game, as in being a genre on its own, with their own tropes and themes.

Nothing is sci-fi unless it fits your fucking retarded requirements.

>How can you explore transhumanism and post-humanism within a 19th century setting
By changing the method people transcent that which is human. Think about it in different terms.
What is the puppet master in the original story? An idea given form, a spectre, a ghost. And you can easily invoke something like that using completely mundane things.
Someone who shrouds himself in secrecy, someone who appears as an ordinary person, only interacting with people through proxies. Coercing them using exotic drugs, threats and rewards. Someone people aren't even certain exists as a man.

I believe someone like this showed up a Sherlock Holmes story once or twice.

Watch more anime, stealth rec thread man.

>ghost

So, in our victorian era GiTS, the puppetmaster is actually an allegory of communism?

Would be actually a nice story.

Ironic that you say that, considering the consensus is Star Trek and Star Wars are sci-fi.

On the other hand, the loose requirement that if some piece of fiction has spess ships it already makes it sci-fi is also quite retarded.

Sure let's do that.
And our Motoko becomes a revolutionary and overthrows the government.

>consensus

uh, no such thing, sweety.

Actually, Gatchaman Crowds is more SciFi than 90% of "SciFi anime".

Just think about it.

>the loose requirement that if some piece of fiction has spess ships it already makes it sci-fi is also quite retarded.
So something being set in the near future that has advanced technology that's not completely unreasonable and that has all the beats that a standard sci-fi story has is not sci-fi because it has some fantasy elements or because it's a military story, got it.

Science fiction is fiction that includes advances in science. Space ships, cyborgs, robots, mechanical prosthetics, etc all fit the bill.

>fiction dealing principally with the impact of actual or imagined science on society or individuals or having a scientific factor as an essential orienting component

Sci-fi requires to be 100% accurate to real science and it can become Science fantasy with time due to progress of science.
So fuck it and go full Science Fantasy.

>Sci-fi requires to be 100% accurate to real science
This has never been the case and Wells' and Verne's books are still considered sci-fi. Science fantasy is a retarded "genre" that people came up with to lump stuff they didn't like into.

The keyword is "impact".

In SW and ST, spess ships have absolutely no impact to the storytelling itself. They could just as well be about the Confessional Wars in 16th century Europe or Columbus/Darwin/Generic Western explorers sailing the oceans to discover new continents.

>In SW and ST, spess ships have absolutely no impact to the storytelling itself
You are actually retarded.

Audience consensus are just uneducated opinions. I meant people that actually matter, people that knows about cinema, critics (real critics, not your newspaper critic or that youtuber influencer you like), people in the industry, academics that write books about cinema and know how to analyze film techniques, aesthetics, etc. Opinions do not weight the same. For example Bradbury´s definition of Sci fi takes prescedence over the opinion of a random user in Yea Forums.

Crest/Banner of the stars, BLAME!, LoGH, etc etc etc you mouthbreathing doublenigger.

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The organizational, corporate, and fan consensus is that those are all sci-fi consensus. Not that I care but its funny seeing pedantic autists argue against themselves.

Tell me what impact future technology has to the overall themes of both story and why the Rebellion in SW couldnt be told in a fantasy setting.

Star Trek is 100% sci-fi. You can maybe argue Star Wars (even though I think it's a stupid argument) but Star Trek is much more focused on how civilizations on other planets evolved and has technology playing a central role.

Tell me how 2001 couldn't be told in a fantasy setting.

What movie/old series used the concept of Kemurikusa though???

*sci-fi works

Dune is very good and I don't care what anyone says, if it involves advanced multi planet space travel, it's sci fi

Is Gundam actually worth watching?
>GitS
>Not cyberpunk
Holy shit

tbf hard scifi fucking gayass nerdwank

>people that actually matter, people that knows about cinema, critics (real critics, not your newspaper critic or that youtuber influencer you like), people in the industry, academics that write books about cinema and know how to analyze film techniques, aesthetics, etc.

Yeah, and all of those people will say Star Trek is sci-fi. God, you 'true kvlt' fans are embarrassing. Go wank off to technical manuals because clearly all you people care about is MUH HARDSCIENCE.

>Is Gundam actually worth watching?
Definitely. I've only seen the UC stuff and not all of it is good but on the whole it's definitely worth watching.

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It wouldnt be the same, because noone gives a fuck about the orgins of orcs and elves compared to the origins of humanity on the moons of Jupiter.

Technology and the space travel here directly impacts the theme of the story.

yes, as long as you don't have your expectations cranked up to 9/10
it varies in quality, and the utter highpoint of the entire thing is Turn A, but it's well worth experiencing if for no reason other than understanding the references to it in everything that's come since - similar to older tarantino movies in the west, for example

Expanse is looking like scifi of 21st century. There's plenty of junk scifi in TV, but 99% are ignorable.

>westworld
>code geass
Trash

>Tell me what impact future technology has to the overall themes of both story
Other than the gigantic death lasers that can take out planets, wars that were fought with androids and clones, ships with the ability to travel in hyperspace, advanced technology that's used in everyday life? Yeah, I can't find any.

>why the Rebellion in SW couldnt be told in a fantasy setting.
Let's see, a group of rebels with outdated technology that are trying to overthrow an evil galactic empire that has a space station the size of a moon that can destroy entire planets doesn't seem like you're average fantasy setting to me.

Because generic earthling fag would be worthless in the futuristic setting where he won't even understand how basic things work.

Nobody giving a shit about something doesn't mean it wouldn't work. You're just grasping at straws to defend your retarded position. There isn't a single thing in 2001 that wouldn't translate into a fantasy series and couldn't be replaced with say magic or something. If you stretch enough you could do it with anything sci-fi.

It's not like West is that good at it either.

Expanse almost got cancelled and it was the first really good sci-fi since BSG.

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Isn't the whole point of LoGH that similar stories have unfolded in every era of human history?

Star trek? who said anything about star trek?

Yes. Don't listen to the mouth breathers.

And Colony did get cancelled. Fucking retarded murridumbs, and eceryone says japs have bad taste.

The Death Star is just a plot device, not an essential thing in the story. It might as well be the mighty armies of Napoleon or Alexander the Great - or the Nazi War-machine that was thought to be unstoppable by badly armed partisans in, lets say, Yugoslavia.

In the end, it is basically a Robin Hood story with magic (The Force). Technology is completely non-essential, seeing how the main baddies were slain in literal sword-fights and not by relativistic kill vehicles or accelerated linear black holes generated by dyson sphere clusters etc.

This is not even wrong. Star Wars is fantasy in space while Star Trek may have some sci-fi episodes but it also has space magic and space gods.

Sci-fi is simply many times harder to write. Especially compared to some isekai MMO garbage #834763863458.

The real question should be why is there so few space fantasy. It can do everything normal fantasy can and much more.

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>impossible tech is fantasy unless you put sciencey words in front of it

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>Colony

Shame. Recent season was good.

You might not believe it, but Mushiking anime(2005) was pretty good sci-fi.

Good point. And this is why I personally thought LOGH deserves a special mentioning despite being a space opera. You can really see that the author has a PhD in history.
Personally, I liked Arslan more tho.

>relativistic kill vehicles or accelerated linear black holes generated by dyson sphere clusters are sci-fi but a giant ship that shoots a planet destroying fuck you laser isn't
What keeps those other two from not being plot devices but the Death Star is?

It literally is.

>tfw Pirates is actually more sci-fi than SW

i dunno, but the impacts of being able to blow up an entire planet seem to be pretty much limited to science fiction, because even nuclear weapons and the firebombing campaigns of late world war 2 didn't have any sort of analogous impact.

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>Muv Luv

Story's themes and structure. Star Wars is literally fantasy with lasers. Replace Death Star with a magic crustal that blows up cities or whatever.

It unironically is.

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who the fuck told you that? Cause its wrong. also how tf you gonna tell a story about people travelling through space with no future technology?

Japan has a problem where they need to self insert or have a japanese enough setting. Fantasy had sparse success until isekai starting putting japanese boys in fantasy settings and suddenly fantasy series are all the rage in japan. Gundam is a Japanese enough property that they don't need a Japanese protagonist or setting, so you won't see any sci-fi series that go beyond typical Gundam or Star Wars shit. In video games Japanese players had trouble with a fully controllable 3d camera and you will see a lot of gen 5 and gen 6 japanese games without one. Concessions have to be made for the japanese audiance, unless the producers are pushing for a western market.

Why couldn't you replace those other two you mentioned with a magic crystal that blows up cities? You'd picking and choosing what you consider sci-fi despite all of it being able to be moved into a fantasy setting with no issue. Replace cyborgs with golems, replace space ships with flying carpets or tamed dragons, etc. There's not a single sci-fi story that couldn't be told in a fantasy setting. So I guess sci-fi doesn't exist. Or maybe fantasy doesn't exist since I'm sure the opposite is true too.

What, would you rather a 40Kish anime was made?

>tell me the plot of star wars without space ships or vader's bullshit life support suit

Normal ships and magic armor.

Because a Type 2+ civilization like what the Galactic Empire would be wouldnt even need to deal with any faggot rebels the old Nazi way. You literally command the combined energies of 100+ star-systems and you would have a society where the people are already transhuman enough that they only cared for their pet black-holes to provide enough rotational energy for their super-computers to simulate all life in the virtual sphere.

Warfare, if necessary, wouldnt be fought with swords and magic, but with a single relativistic vehicle that pierces some-body's star and let it explode.
The most common form of defense in that age would be to hide oneself and stop communicating with each other and hide oneself via gravitational lensing, or a race about who kills more stars with potential adversaries living around their orbit.

>The Death Star is just a plot device, not an essential thing in the story.
Two fucking movies about destroying it, one movie about how it the plans were leaked, a series of games that started with the same premise as the third movie and now the latest movie is going to have the ruins of the Death Star and you're fucking telling me that it's not important to the story?

>Technology is completely non-essential, seeing how the main baddies were slain in literal sword-fights and not by relativistic kill vehicles or accelerated linear black holes generated by dyson sphere clusters etc.
Except that you need the technology to get from one place to another in the galaxy, for most shit to work in the universe, for the events of the prequels to take place, even the Jedi and Sith used lightsabers which are made with advanced technology. And did you miss everything that wasn't a fucking duel in every single movie/show/comic/game?

All you're doing is talking the sci-fi elements that SW has and changing them to magic to prove your point, when you can do that with literally everything to make it a fantasy story instead of whatever the fuck it's supposed to be.

I like body suits and big tits very much.

>but with a single magic crystal that pierces some-body's city and let it explode

look Yea Forums finally a show designed for big brained intellectuals about the hard implications of fast scientific achievements

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Try to tell The Expanse, Ringworld or Consider Phlebas without space and super tech.

This is the difference. Real sci-fi series needs it's super tech and will spend a lot of time with how tech in the series works. Something like Star Wars gives no crap. It just works.

Star Trek is tricky because plenty of episodes are sci-fi but you also have tons of episodes that are pure fantasy. And ST is a gigantic clusterfuck of a franchise at this point anyways.

Yes. And now imagine writing a realistic story around this theme. How would you destroy that crystal? With swords and magic and dragon-rider dogfights over the trenches of the magic academy that has this crystal? Or by either fucking surrendering or trying to build your own magic crystal and engage in a race of mutual genocide?

Because this would be actual speculative Sci-Fi.

>The Expanse
Magic
>Ringworld
Magic
>Consider Phlebas
Magic

>any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic
the argument spanning this whole thread is fucking idiocy

I quite enjoyed Revelation Space when I read it a few years back

There are very few good western Sci-Fi too. Those things are just hard to write. It's nice to see they are slowly coming back though.

Go skinny dip in a barrel of natrium hydroxide

Yes, and how does that magic impact the society around it?

Because the societies of SW might as well be ancient Rome or Murrica during the Wild West era. Noone seems to give a fuck about flying cars and FTL travel in those movies. They live as if they were 20th century humans.

In The Expanse, you actually have a lot of development going on with astroid populations and their social stratification etc. Consequences born out of human space expansion and new technologies.

The only real difference between sci-fi and fantasy is that sci-fi will try to explain how it's technology works and try to make it realistic while fantasy just goes with magic.

You can have a fantasy series with magic castles flying through space. Fucking Witcher has interstellar travel magic.

It's magic, I don't have to explain shit.
It's exactly what you've been doing this entire thread.

>Because the societies of SW might as well be ancient Rome or Murrica during the Wild West era

This is what really sets Star Wars as fantasy not sci-fi. Technology in SW makes no sense and nobody tries to explain it. They have androids and super tech but you can die during childbirth. They have hyperspace and planet destroying lasers but average citizen lives like it's 70's USA.

If you can do an actual fantasy story where Magic actually changes the population and society and culture into something entirely unrecognizable, you may have a point. But SW didnt do it.

Actually, what really fits well is Shin Sekai Yori. That anime really showed the full consequences supernatural abilities/"magic" has on a society at large.

SSY is actually fucking hard SciFi, desu

And this is where you are wrong.
Because Star Wars is about the Force, the Jedi, the Sith. It's a story about magical Samurai. The Samurai magic can overcome all of these technologies.
After all, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

star trek sucks hard, except for the pilot which is incredibly good.

Ok, let's say that The Force is the greatest thing ever....

Why do galactic empires or alien civilizations even bother with flying cars and hyperspace travel? Wouldnt the Galaxy look more like a fucking Scientology Church as oppossed to the Roman Senate?

So a fantasy story that fits your retarded list is actually sci-fi but if a sci-fi story that doesn't makes it fantasy.

No, because the force is an esoteric power.
Even in the wast infinity of space only tiny fraction of the few wield abilities beyond reason.
And these are drawn to each other, by that very Force, like gravity.

And you saw that in the prequels, the Jedi order was an insane Scientology-like cult and the sith in the original trilogy followed similar structures.

Galactic Empire is run by a space wizard.

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

A story were supernatural powers or super advanced technologies have direct impact on literally everything and the plot is about the exploration of the consequences of these supernatural things on society, culture and the human state is a proper Sci-Fi story and not just space opera/fantasy.

Space is popular again thanks to Elon. Just wait until that 40m telescope goes online in 2025 and we get the first life detection. Generic Sci-fi shit will be the equivalent of isekai today and you will be begging them to stop making more of it.

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It’s a horrible genre

This.

>Mona Lisa Overdrive
>Anything but Neuromancer from the Sprawl trilogy
Look, I understand that you're a faggot and don't want to pick the most popular book out of them. But there's really nothing wrong with choosing Neuromancer.

>Fantasy - things just work due to magic or magic tech.

>Sci-Fi - explains why and how technology does what it does and tries to make it realistic.

It's not rocket science holy shit.

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>tries to make it realistic.

Which involves the dedicated exploring of what consequences the "things" will have on humans/society/the plot itself etc.

And this is the hard part. You cant just say that "X Wizard is super powerful, noone can beat him and he can kill anyone with a simple flick of his hand" and still make him live a cuck life working in a Japanese convenience store because he is poor and needs to earn money to live etc. If you dont want it to be a comedy, that is.
This would be both shit fantasy and shit sci-fi if that Wizard is being replaced by some magic-like wonder-tech.

>You cant just say that "X Wizard is super powerful, noone can beat him and he can kill anyone with a simple flick of his hand" and still make him live a cuck life working in a Japanese convenience store because he is poor and needs to earn money to live etc. If you dont want it to be a comedy, that is.
Hataraku Maou-sama! functions as a serious story.

Nigger wat kind of shitty fantasy have you been reading?

I was refering to him, actually. It was a nice comedy, but the plot device to make it work was the decision to give his powers some very strict limitations.

If he had no limitations, he would have enslaved earth after a week and the story would have been completely different.

>explains why and how technology does what it does and tries to make it realistic.
Sort of but that's not the main point of it. Its about theoretically effects on a society. For example if one in one million people suddenly became wizards of varying strengths and the story was about the effect of a small amount of being born with magic on a modern society that would still be sci-fi.

For example legend of galactic heroes is NOT sci-fi. It's techno-fantasy

LOGH is SW, but GOOD.

No, it doesn't actually need the limitation, because the key is in Sadao's character. He is not the evil demon overlord he is made out to be. He's a well-meaning, honest and hardworking guy.
He works at WcDonalds, because he's not interested in taking over the world or anything like that. He just wants a quiet life.
He's mirrored by Emilia in that regard, who loathes her job at the call center and just wants to continue doing what she did in her old world.

This is why Hataraku Maou-sama is one of the best isekai stories ever written.

Anime scifi is pretty much exclusively restricted to mecha shit.

>He is not the evil demon overlord he is made out to be. He's a well-meaning, honest and hardworking guy.

I remember arguing with people about this problem. This character development was kind of explained in a shit way. As if the "civilizing effects of working in a japanese WcDonalds restaurant" could cure his genocidal tendencies...

There was one picture paroding this story with Sadao replaced with a reasonable Hitler and that whatsherface Hero being unreasonable for demanding that he apologizes for all his genocides.

Damn, Hataraku was much deeper than I thought.

SW is SW but bad?

Despite some dated animation the original is more or less a masterpiece. A lot of really great stories about child soldiers and war. I think the episodes with Miharu are some of the finest anime episodes ever made, and Icelina Love's Remains is a wonderful, wonderful episode about wartime widows and the disconnect a soldier has between himself and the enemy.

Everything after the original is a bit more hit or miss.

LoGH is great, but so is Star Wars. the original films at least. nothing like SW had ever been done before, because a lot of the technology used to make it was new. too many people are focusing on story and setting alone when it was the presentation that made SW groundbreaking.

Is it every actually explained anywhere why he became the demon lord? I mean, it's not like he DIDN'T have his troops burn down human villages etc

To stop the humans and angels burning down the demon villages and murdering the demons. Things just spiraled out of control from there.

He's a genuinely good guy.

>Not a single mention of Gunnm

No, it wasnt explained and this is the part that made me feel like it was actually a commentary on sino-japanese/korean-japanese post war relations.

Sadao was a sadistic brutal beast, but turned into a nice guy due to the "civilizing effects of working in a japanese WcDonalds restaurant (i.e. american post war order in Japan)", while Emilia etc. was shown as the crazy revenge-seeking Korean/Chinese activist who is depanding reparations and apologies from innocent Maou-sama who actually felt like he apologized with "huh, I didnt know what drove me to do this... Uh, so, sorry, I guess."

As said, Hataraku is DEEP.

Yes, in the LNs.
Satan was raised by an Angel after his home was destroyed and he nearly died. After hearing stories about the way the humans and angels work together, he decided that it would be a good idea for the demons to come together as well to avoid living in constant fear of the enemies. He eventually gathered enough of a following to become known as the Demon King and he defended his realm against the hordes of invaders.
Satan did LITERALLY nothing wrong and his conduct in the new world is a clear expression of his personality as a true hero.
Unlike the cruel, genocidal Emilia.

Good manga, but SHIT adaption.

overrated trash pissed me off on many levels

Nigger that's definitely not true for star trek.

It's impossible without replicators because it makes the federation a post-scarcity society. I don't think you've watched star trek, you're just dismissive because it's pop culture.

Did you think this was a thread about Japanese sci-fi?
It's just a thread for autists to bitch about nothing being sci-fi.

No, post-scarcity, not post-colonial you fucking idort.

I'll bite.
Star Wars is a space opera, like Cowboy Bebop is (more often than not). So whatever.
But Lt. Cmdr. Data building another android and then getting hauled into court to prove the government should consider the creation his daughter instead of the Federation's property, and then getting attacked by a terroristic collective with a shared consciousness so brainwashed that one of its captured members can't manage to call itself anything but "Third of Five"... This is about as science fiction as science fiction gets.
The whole point of science fiction is to explore the impacts of different philosophies when technology reaches its logical conclusion.
A space opera is what you get if you can take away all the shiny visual effects and are still left with fundamentally the same story. But if you're making ethical decisions due to advances not currently possible, you have either fantasy or science fiction.

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Don't bite, you'll gain nothing from it.

Foundation

Wow, this is the first time I see a person disliking Denno Coil.

peter watts is great.
it went off the rails when the mule fucked the plan but the secret cult of psychohistorians brainwashed everyone and saved the day.
i guess greg egan - blood music was a pretty fun story even if a little retarded.

>it went off the rails when the mule fucked the plan but the secret cult of psychohistorians brainwashed everyone and saved the day.
But that was great. The moment everyone gathered around Seldon's recording only to find out that it had no idea what was going on was gold.

Issac Asimov, Stannislav Lem, Arthur C. Clarke, Liu Cixin and all the other big names of golden age or golden-age style SciFi.

I dont care about SJW plots in my scifi. I want speculative fiction of grand scales.