Hashirama dies in a war, Kishi doesn’t specify how

You know what really ruined Hashirama's legacy? Fucking Tobirama and other hokages.
>"I will make a village where kids won't have to fight each other and die"
>next Hokage makes Chunin exams, which were literally stated as death matches in honour and admiration of their homeland even by a weakling Sarutobi was
>children still being forced into the war and dying left and right, like in Kakashi's past
And you know what? Even Naruto changed nothing about it. Chunin exams still around. Hell, if I recall correctly, Boruto and co were given B rank mission because "I think you are ready". Yeah, ready to become a young corpse maybe.
And if war was suddenly to start, I highly doubt Boruto and his peers would not be let into it.
LET'S TAKE DOWN THE SHINOBI SYSTEM. AKATSUKI BROS, MADARAFAGS, ASSEMBLE

Tobirama is a realistic leader but not a dictator and imo the best Hokage. Tobirama was the best balance between Hashirama's naivety and Madara's ruthlessness. Tobirama dealt with the Uchiha fairly by giving them a post they were well-qualified for and was willing to work with those who followed the will of fire like Kagami. But for some reason Tobirama is blamed for bringing the Uchiha to extinction when it was clearly all Danzo’s doing. Tobirama wouldn’t have the heart to carry out a massacre on the Uchiha

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Great post, no one will ever reply to it.

The 3rd beat him and his brother with a snake in a cage match.

>LET'S TAKE DOWN THE SHINOBI SYSTEM

The shinobi system is too flawed and must be destroyed
> Child soldiers
> Jinchuurikis (forcing them into a situation they’ree too young to even consent to (and they’re not even asked desu) to strengthen the village’s military power, despite the isolation and trauma it brings to both the hosts and bijuus)
>The maltreatment of Bijuus
>Fascism and the total obedience expected from the citizen toward the village and thus, the country, which strips people from their humanity and forces them to kill their own comrades and family for the village (Itachi, Kisame)
>GENOCIDE (The Uchihas)
>Poor/non-existent mental health care (Sasori and Kakashi who, instead of getting therapy, gets thrown in the battlefield as children, resulting in further trauma and the sociopathy of Sasori + Kakashi’s passive victim attitude)
>Gladiator arenas, basically ninjas (and often children) fighting each other for the “honor” of their countries and the amusement of the Feudal Lords (Chuunin Exams and Sasuke Shinden)
>Discrimination, demonization of and fear towards those with Kekkei genkai
>Absence of orphanages, children having to raise themselves by themselves (Naruto, Sasuke, Haku, Zabuza and many more)
>Slavery (the Hyuuga clan notably)
>Torture and human rights violation
>The Feudal Lords and upper class who are the ones responsible of all of this, profiting of such a cruel system to get richer and richer.

>Tobirama wouldn’t have the heart to carry out a massacre on the Uchiha
Tobirama killed the Uchihas since childhood and was against the peace with them. He tolerated them because of his brother, but he constantly expected from them a stab in the back and was afraid of the appearance of a new Madara. He was glad to hear that all the Uchiha were killed, and if they tried to carry out a coup when he was alive he would have killed them personally.

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Doesn't matter, Kawaki will burn it all and win.

Senju bros were fun, there should've been fillers about them, but it is still unknown even how Hashirama died.

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Tobirama, Hashirama and Madara had unlimited Chakra in their Edo Tensei forms, they were powerful in life but not as powerful.

And as I said, the Kinkaku Force was a collection of incredibly skilled Ninja with equally strong weapons, him dying to them is nothing out of the ordinary.

Pain already destroyed the village, and they recovered pretty quickly. Konoha still dominates the shinobi world and dictates its will, thanks to Naruto "I am a regenerating nuclear bomb. Now let's have a heart to hearttebayo"

>and if they tried to carry out a coup when he was alive he would have killed them personally.
Even the children?

Yes, Tobirama called the Uchiha a cursed clan and considered them too dangerous. Danzо was his student and most likely inherited his will, all Tobirama's students discriminated against the Uchiha and most likely they learned it from Tobirama.

I'm sure Boruto is pretty much destroying each one of the premises of the world of boruto and realizing how stupid is having people with godlike powers making a critique a la Shinsenkai Yori but with more shounen approach. Kawaki is literally saving the world from a perpetual cycle of war.

>Tobirama employs the uchiha as the vanguard of Hidden leaf
>Apponts Hiruzen as Hokage instead of Danzo

Me no brain brain

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>Tobirama employs the uchiha as the vanguard of Hidden leaf
He made them police to deal with civilians (drunken fights and etc), they couldn't serve in Anbu or work for government.
>Apponts Hiruzen as Hokage instead of Danzo
Hiruzen was more charismatic, so he was chosen as village's public face, but he let Danzo did the necessary dirty work for him and agreed with him in most cases

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>to deal with civilians
>military police
>couldn't work for ANBU
>but they totally can if they prove themselves
>Tobirama is responsible for Hiruzen and Danzo as old men
How many eyes did the Uchiha have to sacrifice with Izanagi to try to whitewash this hard?

Wood Release is hyped up pretty early on and it only gets more ridiculous as the more we learn it. Even in early Naruto there is no feasible way Hashirama could’ve been killed in battle

>to deal with civilians
>military police
Yes, although they were called the MILITARY Police, they didn't investigate serious crimes (ANBU did), so the elders were going to cut their budget in half.

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>couldn't work for ANBU
>but they totally can if they prove themselves
Itachi was FIRST, and only because Danzo understood how manipulate him, for others it was forbidden.

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Agreed with everything except the last sentence. Tobirama loves and puts the village above everything. He knows that the Uchihas are genetically evil and Hashirama gave them an undeserved chance of living in a wider community risking the lives of everyone in the village and the global power balance that the village system has created. He would've killed them all himself if they started a coup.

Tobirama's kids idolized him; even in adulthood, the elders made decisions referring to the Tobirama's will. Most likely he was the one who taught them discriminate against Uchihas.

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please stop talking about naruto.

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Ohh yeah big scary Tobirama. Not the long line of Uchihas who've consistently tried to destroy the world. Indra, Madara, Izuna, Fugaku, Obito, Sasuke and most certainly Salad.

>Well, I was wrong about it being civilian crimes, but look, here are things that don't prove what I said at all! And oh no, there are elite positions that could rank over them!
>what they see it as vs. what Tobirama saw it as
And sorry, "Danzo was just manipulating him" doesn't suddenly mean that he didn't become ANBU. At best, you've got that the MP position was a consolation to try to cover up specific people not trusting the Uchiha at the moment, not a written law keeping the Uchiha from higher positions.

>They're not responsible for their own actions
>It doesn't matter that Tobirama was buddy buddy with Kagami, which both Hiruzen and Danzo knew and had been saved by
>It totally isn't because of their clan history and mind control powers at a whim.

>I was wrong about it being civilian crimes,
What? It was said that all brutal crimes were investigated by Anbu, so what left for Uchiha besides drunken and marital civilian fights?
> not written law keeping the Uchiha from higher positions.
It was openly spoken rule, so no Uchihas in Anbu for decades.

>Indra
ancient story, not revelant to Konoha Uchihas
>Madara, Obito
rogue psychopaths
>Izuna
we don't know anything about him.
>Fugaku
planned coup after decades of discrimination
>Sasuke
helped to save world
>Salad
cute little harmless half-breed girl

>Tobirama was buddy buddy with Kagami,
Kagami was his science project on raising loyal to village Uchiha
>It totally isn't because of their clan history
Tobirama spread rumors about the Uchiha's curse, although this is just a poetic description Sharingan awakening under the influence of strong emotions.

>planned coup after decades of discrimination
He didn't agree with the Coop, but there was nothing he could do about it. Which is why he humbly allowed Itachi to kill him without resistance.

>"it has become customary"
The switch to ANBU over police was new, and your image literally confirms that the scope of the police under Tobirama, the original point, was near all encompassing. This is the quote you yourself were responding to: >Tobirama employs the uchiha as the vanguard of Hidden leaf
The elder literally confirms that they had a lot more power under Tobirama, and she gives plenty of valid points beyond discrimination as to why it's being taken away. If anything, Fugaku should have been asking if they even needed to maintain their positions or if they could go back to rank and file.
>It was openly spoken rule
The rule was "I personally don't trust the Uchiha for numerous reasons, so I'm not making them my personal guard" not "Tobirama made them
the military police which means none of them can ever be CHOSEN for ANBU and we have to hate them"

Growing up in the warring states era, Tobirama is very familiar with the power of the Uchiha. In fact Tobirama is the only Hokage that thinks for the village without emotional influence. People want to say he isolated the Uchihas cause he's racist but in actuality he's prioritizing the safety of the village.

>Obito
>Sweet boy who could barely beat a chunin
>After two events becomes emotionally unstable and slaughters 20 Anbu level shinobis
>Madara own clansmen choose hashirama over him as hokage
>Rages like a autist and lives in some remote cave underground hatching a revenge plan
>Even Itachi commits Uchiha genocide once he realises his clan members are all power hungry low IQ retards who can’t think for the future

Tobirama even though knowing what the uchiha are capable of still worked with them patiently, that in itself is an achievement for someone who fought them for the majority of his life and lost his own two brothers to them

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Yeah, the problem with the Uchiha is that no matter the general situation of the clan, you only need ONE lowly Uchiha to go apeshit and the resulting tantrum will be the equivalent of a termonuclear bomb.

The cool Uchiha's deserve praise, but their existence doesn't fix the original problem. Itachi is a fucking hero for taking the bullet and deleting the clan. We can clearly see that his mistake was the soft spot he had for his little brother, who then proceeded to chimp out as expected and throw a termonuclear tantrum against the village he wanted to protect.

>>Tobirama employs the uchiha as the vanguard of Hidden leaf
What makes you think that? He made them police to drive clan away from the central functions of the village.
>The rule was
Rule was no Uchiha in Anbu or government because they are mentally unstable power hungry assholes, and we must secure the existence of Senju people and a future for Konoha children.

Fucking this. This world is so fucked up, and Naruto as hokage became just another dog of the system. What a disappointment. Even Tsukuyomi was better

I don't understand why Tobirama gets the blame for the Uchiha massacre, It was 50% the Uchiha's fault for being retards, 45% Danzo's fault for being a jealous power hungry autist and 5% Hiruzen's fault for not seeing it coming and letting the Uchiha situation get as bad as it did

There were only two Uchiha psychopaths, Konoha Uchiha lived peacefully for decades until Obito and Danzo started fucking with them. Maybe Uzumaki also needs to be destroyed because Pain was Uzumaki? Or should the Hyuga clan be destroyed because of the moon boy?

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>what makes you think that
The image that you posted. The image that explicitly says the scope of the police has been reduced from what it was, partially because of the growth of the ANBU and partially it being 7 years of peace, which is also the face value reason for the budget being slashed, with how much the mistrust of the Uchiha is to blame being up for debate.
Also, this is post Kyuubi incident, where they were at peak mistrust for being the only ones known to be capable of controlling it and not showing up to assist.
>The rule was
So you admit that it's their own mistrust of the Uchiha preventing them from choosing Uchiha for their own elite guard, and not Tobirama's military police institution? Good.

Forget that, when are they gonna release the full soundtrack to Shippuuden already?

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There was also a fair % of Obito and Madara being responsible for controlling the Kyuubi, which only an Uchiha could have done as far as most know, and staging an attack on Minato that ended with him dying, only to never be caught. Really exacerbated everyone's fears of the Uchiha doing everything Uchiha do best.

Friendly reminder though that the only 2 Uchiha to be reanimated broke free of it in different ways.

They also happen to both be voiced by Getter pilots #1 and #2.

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>has been reduced from what it was
And? They had more power in past, maybe investigated brutal crimes before Anbu, but that's all, they still were police dogs
>own mistrust
Tobirama taught them, they were reffering to his words.

Uchiha's are the only ones who, as a clan trait, are canonically stated to be powder kegs for lunacy. In a setting where pretty much every fucking shinobi inevitably ends up with dead friends or family members after a few years in the job, Uchiha's are the only ones who have the potential to start a Madara/Obito tier shitstorm as a result.

The problem here is the combination of Uchiha's going mental and the fact that going mental gives them ungodly broken powers. Pain is an example of an individual, not clan related, run-of-the-mill chimpout due to trauma, that just happened to land on the guy who was born with extremely rare hax eyes beforehand.

Uchiha get the hax powers -because- of the chimpout.

Hashirama didn't die in battle, he died of a rare illness that not even he could fight off.

And it's still 1 kage vs 20 S-Rank ninja's. Living Minato couldn't beat the Akatsuki by himself in a straight 1 vs 9 or however many there were.

>Uchiha's are the only ones who have the potential to start a Madara/Obito tier shitstorm as a result.
Still no reason for genocide. Ms is rare as fuck, only THREE Konoha Uchihas had it, Shisui was easily beaten by Danzo, Itachi worked for village, Fugaku allowed son to kill him.

They really need to release this track officially, both versions of it.
youtu.be/H1O04qZv3-4

>And?
>the quote you choose to respond to
"Tobirama employs the uchiha as the vanguard of Hidden leaf"
>your response
"He made them police to deal with civilians (drunken fights and etc), they couldn't serve in Anbu or work for government."
Except as shown with your own evidence, he made them police to deal with things that would become ANBU level concerns and it wasn't the actual institution that stopped them from becoming ANBU (aside from Itachi)
>Tobirama taught them
By actually accepting an Uchiha who proved himself loyal to the village? Sarutobi definitely had his own clan, which had it's own clan history with the Uchiha. They may have been influenced by Tobirama to a degree, but overall they were operating on their own biases by that point, post Kyuubi incident to boot, when everyone had adequate suspicion that the Uchiha were responsible for the death of the 4th hokage. They're referring to what they remember, through the biases they have stoked through substantial evidence that the Uchiha were ready to stage an attack.
When literally everyone believes an Uchiha (rightly at that) has to be responsible for the death of the previous leader, does it shock you that no one wants that clan to be among the personal guard of the current leader?

>hashirama, itachi, and kimimaro all die of Ninja aids
Clearly the uchiha must be responsible for spreading it because they’re the biggest faggots in the series

The reason for genocide was the coup that was going to happen, which would have lead to many people in the village dying, paired with the perfectly founded suspicion that one, if not several of the Uchiha were behind the Kyuubi incident and the 4th's death.

The village couldn't prove anything with they Kyuubi incident, but the coup on top of that was essentially a smoking gun and they had to be terrified of the exact same situation occurring at minimum.

>And it's still 1 kage vs 20 S-Rank ninja's.
That depends on the level of an S-Rank ninja back in the day. The S-Ranks of Narutos time were probably stronger than they were.

The only feasible way for Hashirama to have died would be overuse of his regeneration powers or a mysterious disease like Itachi who was too strong for this world, but none of that was ever mentiines; in fact he was said to be the healthiest person since he's a Senju and reincarnation of Indra the fitness God.

Tobirama.. Maybe he got caught in a trap that drained his Chakra? Nah fuck that. It's a plot hole honestly, he wasn't that far of Hashirama in the power scale and in the war he proved capable of fighting the Jinchuriki of the 10 tails with magic tricks, no fucking way he loses to some guys who ate fox meat. He'd only need to do a gesture to transform the battlefield into a giant water blender and slash them into pieces. He was even just about to beat Live Madara in the war with the kunai teleportation trick, so close Kishimoto had to cut the scene away and have Tobirama lose offscreen because there was no way Madara didn't get stabbed in the head.

>Except as shown with your own evidence, he made them police to deal with things that would become ANBU level
I got a different impression. The police initially dealt only with civilians, and then even brutal civilian crimes began to be given to ANBU, and Uchiha investigated only minor civilian crimes.
>wasn't the actual institution that stopped them from becoming ANBU
Elders openly said, thet Uchihas shouldn't be allowed to serve in Anbu or work in government.
> accepting an Uchiha who proved himself loyal to the village
He accepted Kagami and maybe few others as low soldiers, but he made all Uchihas police so no Uchihas could have political career.
>does it shock you that no one wants that clan to be among the personal guard of the current leader?
No, their suspicion was adequate, but not genocide, they could just arrest the leaders of coup, there were only four of them.

>coup on top of that was essentially a smoking gun
Ok, then arrest coup's leaders, why kill all Uchihas?

This. FTG is the strongest jutsu/technique in the series period. Realistically, how do you tag a guy that can teleport practically anywhere? The only time an FTG user gets tagged is through P.I.S like when Minato gets his other arm cut off by Juubi Madara, despite being in sage mode, and the scene that you mentioned.

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It's kind of questionable. You'd hope the village system and just the simple progression of techniques getting passed down and iterated on would raise the bar, but some bloodlines seem to have thinned out and disappeared, and the reanimated Kage seemed to talk down about the overall troupes in general.

Also, the Gold and Silver bros just don't make sense. It's hard to even imagine Madara pulling off their Kyuubi eating stunt, but they didn't come off as special at all and the weapons seemed like memes. But granted, they just ate a portion of it's chakra, they didn't actually have a portion of it's consciousness sealed inside them. You'd think they'd have started out with more and it would have disappeared over time

They don't make sense, but it's Naruto so whatever.

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Who cares if i can go and relisten Sadness and Sorrow for 722 time again

Ikr? And this too.
youtu.be/o6FJHMnDLQ4
Man what's taking them so long?!

Tobimara being killed in an ambush only became stupid when kishi decided to retroactively make him so god tier
>he was the best water jutsu user ever
>also he invented teleportation
>and the impure resurrection Jutsu too
It’s a miracle the third wasn’t killed instantly when they fought

shanks was fully aware of what was happening and had perfect time to react
a better comparison would be you breaking mike tyson's jaw because he got in the way of you punching someone else

All the blame for the every event relevant to the plot and detrimental to the main characters that happened in Naruto can be drawn back to Iwaniggers

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>he was the best water jutsu user ever
Kisame bro.

>PLEASE /pol/ COME TO THIS SUBREDDIT AND MAKE NARDO GREAT AGAIN I NEED MY REUSED SHITTY NARDO MEMES WHAT DOES Yea Forums MEAN THAT NO HUMAN BEING WANTS ANYTHING TO DO WITH APES LIKE US

>I got a different impression
How? Tobirama said military police. Military police polices the military. It was described as "elite shinobi who monitor fellow shinobi." You're headcanoning this way too hard.
>Elders said
Which has nothing to do with military police and was post Kyuubi incident, where they suspected the clan of treason with damning evidence
>He made all Uchiha police because
Again, that's how some interpreted it, not what he said and not an actual limitation imposed by the military police title.
>but not genocide, they could just arrest the leaders of the coup
Because in the world of Naruto where everyone is a trained killer, you don't just leave people willingly following a hostile military take over live to threaten you another day, especially when you suspect one of them was behind killing the last leader and controlling a mythical beast for mass devastation to your home, but don't know who that person is. Just a few arrests wouldn't have removed tensions at all, and the rest of the village would still be in danger.

Kisame used performance enhancing swords, that's cheating
And the Boruto manga confirms what happens to cheaters (who get caught) in the ninja world

Moral of the story: The Uchiha (as a whole) weren't evil. The village wasn't evil. Obito wasn't evil. Then Madara got a hold of Obito and managed to ruin everything, professing peace while he just wanted a power trip.

True moral of the story: Itachi is a cutie!

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To each their own I suppose

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He's also Getter 1.

about 1/4 way through shippuden it's obvious he was just pulling everything out of his ass.

> described as "elite shinobi who monitor fellow shinobi."
Source? They didn’t show us what the police did under Tobirama (hardly anything serious, because he didn’t trust them), but under Hiruzen they dealt with civilians (there was an anime episode where they arrested drunks).
> post Kyuubi incident
No, they said it was established since second.
>He made all Uchiha police because
His pupils interpreted it so, they said it was his intention and they knew him.
>everyone is a trained killer
Not all, there were Uchiha merchants, housewifes and children.
>one of them was behind killing the last leader and controlling a mythical beast for mass devastation to your home, but don't know who that person is
You need ms to control Kyubi, and they had two ms users on their side. Danzo himself thought that their plan was very stupid, he could dealt with them other way (he monitored and controlled whole village after all), but he didn't wanted, because it was easier for him just to kill them all.

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Yes! Uchiha is a clan of deep love!

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At one point googling "asspull" literally showed mostly Naruto images.

I wish Naruto had quality twinksand femboys. Only one was that kid from the first arc

In less than 100 years you had 4 Uchihas trying to destroy the Leaf with Madara, Obito, Fugaku and Sasuke.
No other clan has the genetic makeup that turns every single individual either cold and ruthless or psychopathic (or both).

>Madara, Obito
Madara was lone wolf, and Obito was brainwashed by him (so 2 in 1).
>Fugaku
planned coup, not destruction
>Sasuke
only thought about destroying leaf because Konoha's deep state killed his clan, but then protected it
So one lone wolf Madara and his victim clinicly insane mindraped Obito.

The ninja system was set up in the first place to stop clans from slaughtering each other. Hashirama achieved peace by uniting all the clans under one country.

Everything wrong with the system has less to do with Hashirama and more to do with ninjas acting like politicians. There's no system of checks and balances to prevent the kage from using his newfound political power to wage war against another village, or restriction on term limits.

Tsunade and Kakashi were better Hokage because they did the paperwork instead of the fighting.

Sasuke defected from the Leaf, joined a serial killer and a known terrorist group, and then attempted to kill the Kages.

>planned coup after decades of discrimination
wrong and speedreaderpilled. He couldn't convince the clan, he said that to Itachi.

>joined a serial killer
And then he killed him
>joined known terrorist group
Killed Deidara and Itachi before that, took one mission and then told Tobi to fuck off
>attempted to kill the Kages
Attempted murder is no big deal in Naruto world, you can actually be mass murderer and still be called a coolest guy or totally forgiven like Orochimaru.

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>Konoha's deep state
Another thing they have in common with America besides the Mount Rushmore knockoff.

Power Level Fags just want a Wartime Kage like Hashirama to kill all the village enemies. They don't understand that Peacetime Kages like Tobirama, Tsunade, and Kakashi are the ones the village needs.

It's why Danzo and Orochimaru never got to be the Hokage. They were too concerned with war and power, then blamed it on the system.

Are there power level fags/debatefags in Japan as well or something?
That would explain a lot.

And people shit on Sasuke for thinking Konoha is bullshit

>Source
I can't find it now, I just have the quote saved, but Itachi says in ch 220 that they deal with crimes of other ninja. Again, military police is pretty damn specific.
>No, they said it was established
I'm not arguing that, I'm saying that their interpretation of the Second's words post Kyuubi incident is saturated with suspicion and used to justify their own fears. The dynamic between the Uchiha and the village changed drastically after that, and that's the lens these characters are looking back with. It has no baring on the foundation of the police force
>Not at all
That wasn't directed at the Uchiha, but the Naruto world in general. They operate under the mentality of subterfuge and assassination, and that even a child can kill trained adults. It would be outrageous in reality, but not in the Naruto setting.
>You need ms to control Kyubi, and they had two ms users on their side. Danzo himself thought that their plan was very stupid, he could dealt with them other way (he monitored and controlled whole village after all), but he didn't wanted, because it was easier for him just to kill them all.
Right before the massacre Danzo knew they had Itachi and Shisui as MS users. If you take it as canon, Fugaku had MS as well and said it definitely would control the Kyuubi, which Danzo didn't necessarily know. Danzo also knew there could be more MS users hiding, and that leaving the Uchiha alive would likely lead to more MS users from the fallout.
And the Uchiha having a foolish plan from the perspective of victory doesn't mean they wouldn't cause substantial loss of life in trying. There's a reason the Uchiha were feared outside of the village, considered to be a lost cause to fight against 1v1 by people like Chiyo, and considered the strongest clan within the leaf itself. And it wasn't just fear, anyone with the brains to realize an Uchiha had to be behind it outright saw them as traitors and deserving of death.

Japanese Society frowns upon psychology and therapy. They rather let people deal with their issues alone. They only accept Freud because his theories most likely lines up with their way of thinking, or Jung because the concept of shadows and innerselve intrigue them.

>He couldn't convince the clan, he said that to Itachi.
Source? His clansmen bitched to him about disrespect to Uchiha and wanted to rebel, also Obito told them all kind of shit to provoke them even more.

Only Americans and Latinos are huge powerlevel fags. They're the only ones who don't understand that Sakura's skills as a medical ninja would come in handy for peacetime.

If Naruto didn't have special connections, he'd just be an average ninja working a shift or doing ANBU stuff till he hits retirement age.

>it took WW4 for someone (ie Sakura and Ino in this instance) to think maybe all them shinobi might recover better into functioning adults through therapy

>Hiruzen was said to be the strongest of the Hokage
>given the same title of "God of Shinobi" as Hashirama and Hagoromo
>being shocked that Kishi was a shit writer
In other news, water is wet

>Maybe Uzumaki also needs to be destroyed because Pain was Uzumaki?
Obito gave Pain his Rinnegan, so the Uchiha are partially responsible for that too.

>Tobirama the most powerful shinobi in the hidden leaf village after hashirama death
>Whole village would follow hokage's order till death
>So if he decided to destroy the uchiha he could have done it anytime.
>Doesn’t kill them but makes them responsible for the security of hidden leaf as a sign of brotherhood and kinship

But anons still insist he was the devil

Tobirama didn't particularly hate the Uchiha, he explained exactly why he thought they were dangerous. These people have retard strength, immense chakra reserves and a genetic predisposition to chimping out on a mass scale with the slightest hint of provoking.

I mean for fuck sake you know your clans days are numbered when your FUCKING BODY DEVELOPS a special set of eyes telling you to calm down and think things through as a response to your constant reoccurring chimpouts JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

>the key to world peace is being an almighty dictator
That was kind of a bad message for the series to send.

Maybe for westerners, but for Nips, Ruskies, and the Chinamen, that is a perfectly fine message.

Itachi achieved peace by becoming a double agent on the behalf of his village.

Sasuke is just a lone wolf terrorist. He lacks to organization and man power to become an all powerful dictator

>planned coup, not destruction
Coups are usually very violent and have many innocents die.

Not really. Mexico had a ton of bloodless coups in the 19th century until the French Intervention. Hell they don't even call them coups because of how few people (sometimes none at all) died.

Uchiha are too neurotic to pull off the kind of shit Roah did to achieve world peace. Roah had to execute rapists and thieves in his own army to set an example

Sasuke was right. This is literally the series where the antagonists lost in a fight against the horrible system and the MC, who was its victim in part 1, became someone who enforces/feel into it. And despite Naruto becoming someone who he would hate as a kid, that would be kino if this would get properly acknowledged by the author himself, but nope, Naruto can do no wrong, he definitely fixed everything he needed to! Anyway, who needs politics in the final chapter if we can show ships out of someone's ass instead?

So this is how you cope with the fact that while Naruto, the greatest anime of all time which has touched the hearts of millions, whatever niche irrelevant manga you like will never get fully animated

>Hiruzen was said to be the strongest of the Hokage
>given the same title of "God of Shinobi" as Hashirama and Hagoromo
God this shit never fails to make me laugh

to be fair the 3rd was the second most powerful hokage.

Would temari and shikamaru be forced to fight or capture each other for their nation if a war between the sand and leaf broke out?

>crimes of other ninja.
>military police is pretty damn specific.
Maybe in Tobirama's time most citizen were shinobi, that's why police was called military, but they dealt with stuff like some shinobi suffering from ptsd killed his wife or provoked a fight, you need skills above average to arrest violent soldier after all. But after some time there were more civilians than shinobi, and Uchihas dealt mostly with simple citizen, and then Anbu was created and Uchiha started look like joke.
> their interpretation of the Second's words post Kyuubi incident is saturated with suspicion
Hashirama also told Tobirama not to persecute the Uchiha. He saw himself how Tobirama dealt with them.
> be outrageous in reality, but not in the Naruto setting.
> Uchiha had to be behind it outright saw them as traitors and deserving of death.
Still it's cruel as fuck and there were another options, also they fucked up, because they killed almost all Uchihas except the one who actually summoned Kyubi and caused the coup. They could arrest Fugaku, learn that some shady fucker talked to them and maybe try to kill Obito. Although Uchihas were stupid too, some strange Uchiha guy told them to rebel, and no one thought that this guy could be Kyubi summoner and they should just arrest him and give Hiruzen as token of good will.

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Wood Release only got hyped for being a rare Kekkai Genkai, nothing too OP

>Maybe in Tobirama's time my headcanon doesn't work, but it could afterward!
That's not evidence for the military police breaking up bar fights like you want it to mean
>Hashirama also told Tobirama not to persecute the Uchiha. He saw himself how Tobirama dealt with them.
Doesn't mean he's more responsible for the post Kyuubi incident treatment of the Uchiha than the Kyuubi incident
>Still cruel as fuck
Welcome to the ninja world

>nothing too op
>Madara and Hashi shitting on the rest with only wood style

Check what I replied to

It let you steal chakra and instantly poison/brainwash people with spores. Wood jutsu was way more broken than it had any right to be

Hashirama and many with the saime naive outlook as hi (hi Naruto) had very good intentions and their talk-no-jutsu can get them far, but their optimism is just plain unrealistic trying to hold people to their high standards is silly.

Tobirama was a pragmatic leader who installed a current system because the world still had plenty of fucking wars in his lifetime and you can't just create an utopia based on good intentions, you need a tranition period until things calm down at the very least. It was on Hiruzen and his successors to make things more civilized as longer peace times came

Nothing you couldn't see Hashirama dying with the powerscaling at the time

>Tobirama, Hashirama and Madara had unlimited Chakra in their Edo Tensei forms, they were powerful in life but not as powerful.
It's the reverse, retard. Being Edos made them all weaker. Literally said when they were first revived.

Madara did nothing wrong, his vision just differed from Hashirama's. And Hashirama failed miserably at achieving peace. If anything Madara would've came closer if it weren't for the Kaguya/White Zetsu shit

>That's not evidence for the military police breaking up bar fights like you want it to mean
They were reduced to it in Hiruzen's time, we don't know how different it was in 2nd time.
>Doesn't mean he's more responsible for the post Kyuubi incident treatment of the Uchiha
He don't, his pupils do, and maybe they would be more tolerant if 2nd taught them different.
>Welcome to the ninja world
Naruto with its child soldiers, guerrilla warfare and constant civil war between small clans is literal Africa with ninjas and jutsus.

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I can see Shikamaru placing Temari under home arrest or using her as hostage, he is Danzo 2.0.

I never bothered with Boruto but I hear Temari took the kid and left him or something. Dunno if it's just overexaggeration or just plain bullshit.

You have to go back redditor.

Yep, nothing changed with Hashirama's initiative and even less changed when Naruto finally ascended the position.

Can anyone elaborate on this? Wasn't Shikamaru the most level headed person?

Other villages had shinobi on the level of the leaf

20 Kakashi-level dudes could kill Tobirama

fuck off.

Filler episode, I take it? Regardless, you can't keep up the front that Tobirama's institution was meant to reduce them to that, which was your original point. You've conceded that the original title was for policing the military, that they had responsibilities that were later considered to be ANBU responsibilities, and that this change happened under Hiruzen. It even seems that the bulk of it happened after the Kyuubi incident.
>Maybe they would be more tolerant
It's not even tolerance. They had legitimate reasons to believe the Uchiha made an attack against the leaf, destroying a large portion of the town, killing countless individuals and the previous leader in the process, and that they could do it again. Madara/Obito explicitly annihilated the foundations of trust the Uchiha had built up, and similar evidence would have damned any other clan. And still, they didn't act with violence until the coup was formed. This trumps Tobirama just being suspicious by a nautical mile.

Who do you think picks up after Naruto's retarded ass when it comes to Hokage business?

He just wanted a calm life...

Shikamaru shinden. Shika did some shady things behind Naruto’s back, also threatened to kill the Kages.

He's saying that Fugaku couldn't convince them not to go through with the coup

Uchiha are the pitbulls of the ninja world.

what chapter or ep does she take the kid away?

Naruto's ninja jesus shit is literally a better version of medical jutsu. He was able to heal and restore literally every person alive at the same time.

>hating your brother and his platonic homosexual relationship
Lame

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>the Boruto manga confirms what happens to cheaters (who get caught) in the ninja world
what happens dude, i dont have enough time to read the fucking manga

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They get told that ninja are honorable and don't cheat, duh

You mean the guys that Darui beat by himself?

They literally didn't though.
>comprised of the union between the two strongest clans from the pre-village days
>both descendants of the sage of six paths
>konoha possesses the mokuton, sharingan, and are allies with the uzumaki clan, meaning they possess all the ways to control bijuu
>also possesses the byakugan because fuck you konoha gets all the dojutsu
>top konoha shinobi could heal any injury, clone themselves, revive the dead, teleport, and alter the course of reality itself
How the fuck can other villages even compete?

Reminder

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How could one man be so based?

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>Realistically, how do you tag a guy that can teleport practically anywhere?
HAHA HOW IS FTG EVEN REAL HAHA JUST DODGE HAHA

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Samurai spinoffs when? Iron Country not seems so bad now.

That shit was dumb desu. No fucking way you can surround a guy who can teleport
>but his students were there too
He can teleports people just like he did in the war

Kishi pretty much wrote them to be so powerful that he couldn't come up with ways of killing them that didn't sound ridiculous lol

That was practically the village of the 6 paths 2bh.

Hidden Cloud at least had Ay 3 who wasn't Hashirama tier but was at least around Minato tier, way better than anyone any other village had. And at one point, the Hidden Mist had the 7 swordsmen including Zabuza, perfect jinchruiki Yagura and the Kaguya clan which had Kimmimaro's kekkai genkai. They could at least stand a chance against the leaf. The Stone village wasn't really given a lot of exposition but the particle style is basically a one shot for anyone not named Minato, Obito or Madara. The Sand is really the only village that has nothing going,

The Hidden Cloud also has the process for becoming a perfect Jinchuuriki with that training temple they have, having 2 of them (Yugito and B) at some point.

This. Based country.

Hashirama used his healing ability until he reached his cellular hayflick limit. Died out of combat.

daily reminder that shippuden was the downfall of Naruto

I remember 4th Hokage or 3rd even said the military police made Uchiha more and more isolated so a coup is even expected?

Sasuke was absolutely right. He should of have won, and formed the First Shinobi Empire

The idea that two godlike beings were just randoml born to the same family has always been weird to me. Is it like Lord of the Rings rules where Ninja were just way stronger back in the day or were the Senju brothers freaks of nature?

Probably both, super satan

based retard. All good ninja at that tine were either Senju or Uchiha because they are god descendants

Senjus and Uchiha are basically Numenorians.

Their clan, along with the Uchiha, were closer to the aliens; granting some of them phenomenal power.

Which is why Boruto has completely disregarded them.
>Delta put up a good fight against Adult Naruto
Hashirama would have defeated her in a single strike. Naruto has gotten much weaker since the war.

>Due to Senju lineage, inherited chakra reserves practically equal to hashirama and Madara
Not even close. Both of those were reincarnations of Ayyliens.

Apparently, Delta is supposed to be the weakest of the organization she belongs to.

N-no homo...

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Do you think Naruto ever gangbang Hinata wtih Clone Jutsu

Naruto has a lot of clumsy world building. If the Uchiha and Senju clans were rival and roughly equal, how comes that there were lots of Uchiha until Itachi's genocide, but almost no one from Senju?

That's why people say the power escalation made it look silly. No matter how much he trains, Tyson would never get the ability to stop bullets with his skin, or to perceive the presence of hidden things, but in One Piece's world, where even a regular buff dude can take an explosion at point blank range and survive with some burns, a Yonkou on Mihawk's level losing a limb like that looks silly.