Isekai before : Stories of young girls and young men visiting another world, in which they mature and discover things about themselves and become stronger people before returning to their own world.
Isekai now : stories of young girls and young men escaping their previous lives and living existences of pure decadence, power fantasy and permanent immaturity
God, the boomers really fucked everything up that bad huh?
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Isekai are wish fulfilment fictions. They fill the niche Harlequin booklets fill for women - just instead of lust for romance it's power fantasies.
Yeah, but there's such a sharp divide from the isekai from the 90s to the isekai of the modern era.
Like when did the slide go from "I leave my old life, and return more mature" turn into "I flee my old life and never return"
Majority of modern isekais is unfinished though.
The mini-isekai boom of the late 80s and early 90s got so bad and even full of its own tropes and cliches that Rayearth had to be made to intentionally subvert a lot of those expectations.
>Yeah, but there's such a sharp divide from the isekai from the 90s to the isekai of the modern era.
Not really. Old stuff like El Hazard really has most of the modern isekai cliches under the sun.
Most old isekai was just escapism fantasies for women
It's the natural progression of things. Why would you ever want to return to this shitty world, and why would I want to watch an isekai-tier show about it? I'm only watching these shows in the first place to forget about my shit life, just like everyone else, so any reminders are just a market disadvantage.
except an isekai about someone getting more mature isnt necesarily better. Those who hunt the elves was a much better isekai than that rayearth piece of shit.
It's generally due to the change in culture for the kind of people into isekai. Isekai also became a really easy way to not actually try hard at making a fantasy world if they could just copy RPG logic
This. They had those shoujo vibes as well I never really liked them.
Princess of Mars is 100 years old and fits very comfortably with modern isekai. It does star an adult, and obviously lacks RPG mechanics and the like, but he's a super strong badass that learns the single Martian language in a week and "invents" animal welfare, solving their problems with reluctant or disobedient steeds.
The shift towards just setting it in a generic copypaste fantasy world really is the worst part. I miss when they used to have somewhat interesting connections to the real world from the isekai world. Stuff like in Dunbine where they accidentally get sent back to earth, or Twelve Kingdoms where people are accidentally swept both ways.
It's just a lot more common these days for characters to get summoned without any real explanation, and randomly given powers just because.
Go read some real literate and grass was greener: The post.
I like those vibes. It gives the story a sense of meaning and weight. Most isekai shows in present day feel incredibly shallow (with very few exceptions). It's fine to have a power fantasy but when that becomes the sole goal of the show it gets old really fast.
More like ho watch better shows.
>spoiling one of the coolest parts of dunbine
actual faggot
but OP
they returned weaker
Watch season 2.
I'll never get over the fact that Rayearth teased the fuck out of that with opening images of Rune God's fighting in Tokyo but never actually happened in the show proper.
At least we got the OVAs.
that's a screenshot from season two...
People just lost all connection to this world and videogames or internet are a way of escapsim where we can become what we couldn't be irl.
That user seems to have not watched.
>actually thinking anyone who enjoys modern isekai will go back and watch old isekai
Even stuff like El Hazard feel revolutionary compared to the cookie cutter shit we get these days. Just think about it.
>Four normalfags isekai'd instead of one. They all react diferently and 2 fall into diferent kingdoms.
>MC is a Gary Stu in his original world while his rival the betamax
>Not every girl want MC's cock. There are even some dykes who don't convert for MC's bland cock and one of the maidens fall in love with his teacher.
>talking about the teacher, he gets a powerup a la John Carter of Mars while rival turn into a general and hanging out with a hot bug waifu lusting for his cock, childhood friend can see through magic but MC spend most of the series pretending to be a princess.
Isekai has gotten so repetitive these days that just make it adventures and cute girls rather than just cute girls make a huge diference
I own thousands of dollars of rayearth merch and quite a few cels. the S1 opening has been my alarm for nearly a decade now so that I wake up happy. I've got commissioned hikaru and nova artwork. I couldn't tell you how many times I've watched rayearth. were you not obtuse you would extrapolate the time of the screenshot with the return being referenced. I'm blocking you now because you are an insect to me.
That's actually an interesting point of view. Yeah, it sort of make sense that now that we have wider access to wish-fulfilment entertainment than ever before people is getting less used to struggle in order to build an identity. They just can make one and roll with it in a virtual world. The same way characters in Isekai no longer need to suffer nor work hard to earn their blessings since most of the time those are just handed to them on a silver platter since the beginning of the story. People no longer want a reason to be special, they just want to be.
>sharp divide from the isekai from the 90s to the isekai of the modern era.
Escaflowne was shoujou wish fulfillment shit of an ugly girl being treated like a queen by half a dozen literal models and kings
Rayearth was shoujou wish fulfillment shit with laughable characterization and muh feefees granting power, literal shounenshit packaged slightly differently
Digimon was more wish fulfillment shounenshit and powerfantasies of feefees granting evolutions
Leda is a shoujou powerfatansy of muh feefees winning against le ebil otherworldly emperor
Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku is probably the only one with some actual meaning, at it's still mediocre at best
Do I even need to mention Ramune or El Hazard? Not of these are fundamentally different to SAO.
there are people here that enjoy either or both. I watched dunbine just last month. spoiler your shit faggot, that would have pissed me off if I saw that while watching toward the beginning.
Fantasy has always been wish fulfilment. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Too bad you won't see this post.
>they returned weaker
This doesn't make an ounce of sense. S2 was all about overcoming their weaknesses.
Fantasy used to be about imagination. Isekai is the oposite from imagination
>CLAMP
>laughable characterization
rare for them. MKR II in particular had incredible character dynamics, in my opinion some of the best in the medium.
Your statement is right, wish fulfilment isn't the problem. The issue is how it's presented.
>187090729
someone didn't watch season one
No user. You gotta understand that "oldfags" think that people who call old anime shit can't possibly have seen them. It's their first line of defense and what they'll throw at you.
I didn't even watch the second season because the first one was so bloody abysmal that I couldn't justify the time. The way it forced development, especially for Fuu, made me almost drop the show. I'd rather watch some Mary Sue MC rescure a bunch of catgirl slaves while using his phone than watch another second of Rayearth.
I don't really care about oldfag/newfag dynamics it's just common courtesy to spoiler major plot twists. that's a big one for dunbine.
second season of rayearth is extremely different from the first. lots of people compare it to LoGH in tone and presentation, which makes sense given some of the shared staff. I like both a lot for completely different reasons.
nu-isekai is a manifestation of the global Jewish psy-op to subvert logos.
>I didn't even watch the second season because the first one was so bloody abysmal that I couldn't justify the time. The way it forced development, especially for Fuu, made me almost drop the show. I'd rather watch some Mary Sue MC rescure a bunch of catgirl slaves while using his phone than watch another second of Rayearth
This is the saddest thing I've read today.
>lots of people compare it to LoGH in tone and presentation
So it's terrible. Good to know.
If you think about it, most isekais are about people turning into the most powerful beings on the game/world or gaining some item that gives them an unfair advantage
>Hating LoGH isn't just a phase, mom!!
what's the point of pretending to dislike LoGH? it doesn't impress anyone
Old isekai MCs were not losers. They had a family life to go back to, in the case of Rayearth, Escaflowne and Zero no Tsukaima, or they didn't even have a choice in the matter like Muv Luv Alternative or Koihime Musou.
Also the isekai world was supposed to be a shitty world as well, that's why they fucking need heroes. What fucking ruined isekai was the presence of cheats. You remove the reason to struggle, of course they are going to want to stay there and refuse to grow. And even most titles nowadays are usually a variation of "I defeated the demon king so fuck responsabilities so I'll go horse around with my poweres in a town full of ignorant peasants."
I actually liked LoGH until I stopped being a newfag and wondered what I ever liked about it in the first place. There's nothing particularly good about it. Especially not given its nature as a piece of "animation".
>pretending
Yikes, there it is again. The assumption that I talked about earlier.
Whether something is good or bad is a matter of personal tastes.
What OP is talking about is the fact that in old Isekai the purpose of the Hero(es) was to defeat whatever evil afflicted the other world and go back to their homeworld enriched by the experience.
In new Isekai however, at least the majority of them today, there is no return to the real world involved. There is a clear rejection of the real world and a total embrace of the wish-fulfillment that the fantasy world offers.
This is the sharp divide OP is talking about.
The that ng is that Isekais in the past used to escalate. The MCs were given powers, sure, but those were only just enough to sort the obstacles immediately in front of them and had to escalate, learn and mature as people in order to wild greater power and get to understand its meaning. Today they just become OP McBadass from Ep1 and stroll over their foes the rest of the show. It makes me cringe.
yes but also
>There's nothing particularly good about it.
compared to what? "good" requires a context of comparison to have any meaning. compared to what good anime?
you're confusing me with someone else with this "pretending" business. if people are accusing you of make-believe a lot maybe you should stop telling lies
if they go back the series is over and you can't continue profiting from releases. it's business
Not necessarily. The MCs of Rayearth went back to Earth at the end of S1 but returned to the isekai world for S2 with a twist.
What really makes me cringe about modern isekai is that they don't even try with the synopsis anymore.
Warning signs include:
>"yep it's the usual isekai stuff-"
>"Transported to another world? Check."
>"Lets watch our mc do the isekai shenanigans!"
If the author can't even be bothered to write a proper intro then neither can I be bothered to read his work.
99% of anime and manga has an end so this point is kinda moot.
yeah they hadn't quite developed good business models for series yet in the early 90s, leading to clunky stuff like that. now we're comfortable and cozy with overlord, no end in sight or weird forced sequels
prove it. verify your statistics
One of the reasons I liked Suzumiya Haruhi (yeah you can call me out on my shit taste) was that instead of taking ordinary people to a fantasy world it brought fantasy elements to an ordinary one. The contrast was amusing and the setting (even if still cliche) made it a bit more relatable than your average isekai story.
It can hardly be considered animation, has terrible visual directing, abysmal acoustic directing, not even its own score, takes 110 episodes to never address anything beyond superficial gradeschool level, refuses to utilize visual language or symbolism beyond the most elementary levels, sports two Gary Stue protagonists ("no no, they aren't Gary Stues they have flaws haha"), can't even build actual multilayered narratives with proper foreshadowing despite its duration etc. Do I need to go on? If you think highly of LoGH, why do you consume audio visual media instead of simply listening to audio books or reading novels?
This is merely an assumption you make because most of them never receive a full adaptation. The goal is most isekai, be it ReZero, Konosuba, SAO, Grimgar or whatever, is very much to return to the world they came from. Works like NGNL are complete outliers. In GATE and SAO the characters even jump around between fantasy and real world because neither is considered a punishment. People see them as an additional part of life. You don't seem to pay attention and think that a story ends after 12 episodes despite having 10 LN volumes.
Anything's been done so they must really push to come up with new stuff.
user, Detective Conan and Doraemon are exceptions.
>Why would you ever want to return to this shitty world
Because we have modern toilet in this world while in Not!Europe isekai people literally shit on the street.
I think the thought process between these trends was just
>if I could be mature, cool, strong, desirable, and social in this world, why would I ever want to go back to a world where I lack my new strengths? Who would I talk to about this? NO ONE would possibly relate to me!
And thought that they were being clever by heading down that route.
With Sword Art Online. Unsurprising that the kind of people that unironically read LNs want to kill themselves and go to magical wish fulfillment land.
Hell even SAO is just a copy of Greed Island.
I said, compared to what good anime? "good" is a word that requires a context of comparison to have any meaning. what are these "good" anime that are causing LoGH to be "bad"? why did you dodge my question that I stated very carefully and answer in complete non-sequitor?
Sense of adventure is dead, and that used to be the point for isekai. Instead of going around and search for your destiny, or hell even going to the king who sends you in a grand mission to save the world is now fucking around doing quests, which is barely an improvement from having a fucking work. Who the fuck goes to another planet to keep working. Is that what the nips want to do in heaven!? More wageslaving?
>You don't seem to pay attention and think that a story ends after 12 episodes despite having 10 LN volumes
Says the guy who can't be arsed to watch a second season of only 20 episodes.
Is there an isekai that addresses this?
Because I am not gonna engage with your childish form of conversing. It doesn't matter what is "good", since you'll ultimately do nothing but whine about how it isn't. Your behavior and desperate attempts are predictable, so they don't deserve an answer, plain and simple. Something deosn't stop being shit because other stuff is worse.
First season is 20, second is 29. You don't even seem to pay attention to the shit you like.
Told like that it's an interesting premise but the problem is that they skip the juicy part and go directly to MC being the ultra special OP Lord of the isekai world without any development.
If I'm remembering correctly, even Rayearth had the girls still be able to access Cephiro or outright stay in the manga, so it's not completely that way
That doesn't mean the goal of a character can't be to go back
>First season is 20, second is 29. You don't even seem to pay attention to the shit you like
Point remains. You criticize something without even having proper knowledge of it, you're full of shit.
>Something deosn't stop being shit because other stuff is worse
That is a ridiculously subjective opinion.
no, this is basic logic. this is basic linguistic philosophy. "good" LITERALLY requires a context of comparison to have any meaning whatsoever.
>It can hardly be considered animation, has terrible visual directing, abysmal acoustic directing, not even its own score, takes 110 episodes to never address anything beyond superficial gradeschool level, refuses to utilize visual language or symbolism beyond the most elementary levels, sports two Gary Stue protagonists ("no no, they aren't Gary Stues they have flaws haha"), can't even build actual multilayered narratives with proper foreshadowing despite its duration etc.
what are some examples of series that achieve these things? so far, LoGH is the best and worst series at these things you've mentioned. your criticism has literally no meaning without a context of comparison.
are you afraid to name anything because you were pretending?
>Something deosn't stop being shit because other stuff is worse.
it literally stops being shit and becomes "best" when nothing else is better. objectively, logically. so what's better?
Only at the end. They discovered they had the power to go to Cephiro (or the new world you name in the manga) and the story ends with them getting ready to finally visit the fantasy world free of conflict.
>Point remains.
Yea, the point that you don't pay much attention to what you consume.
>subjective opinion
As opposed to what? An objective opinion? Like, Rayearth season 2 being 20 episodes?
>are you afraid to name anything because you were pretending?
Yes, I was pretending. I am actually from /toy/ and have never seen an animated feature in my life. Oh, oh.
>Sense of adventure is dead
Can't they do anything else? Overthrowing the king that summoned them and creating a republic sounds like a good beginning.
>Ironic shitposting
And now you're evading. I guess your argument just fell off.
Is LOGH really the boring stretched out barely animated shit that Rayearth S2 was for 100s of episodes?
LOGHfags are retarded then . Thanks for telling me not to waste my time with it. Old LOGH is overrated and the new one is much better.
My point is: You insulted LOGH by putting it on the same level as Rayearth S2 (I want to believe classic LOGH is better. It's still on my backlog. But if it's anything like Rayearth S2 but much longer, I'm not looking foward to it)
The finale of Rayearth S1 broke me. I was only 11.
>argument
What argument? You're claiming for modern isekai to not even have the goal for people to return home, ignoring 90% of the source material that you've never seen adapted. There's no argument here. Were you under the impression that this was a debate? You've exposed yourself as a drooling nostalgiafag the second you uttered that statement.
So there's no argument then? Can I discard all of your posts and nonsensical babble then?
be careful when using adjectives that require a context of comparison to have meaning. common pitfall for people inexperienced at online arguments. another check mark on my white board.
>x show I haven't watched is overrated
I never said they were the same. I actually like MKR II more because it has cute girls in it. I'm a disgusting rayearth fanboy surrounded by hikaru and nova all over my room. I said they are often compared to each other due to their tone, exposition, politics, and space settings. if you liked the LoGH remake you will certainly like the original as it's pretty much identical unless you're obsessed with flashing lights. and honestly, the character artwork was a lot better in the original in my opinion.
>the 85IQ newfag makes another mark on his list, titled "Internet debates I've won (or so I thought)!"
I thought the ending of the first three manga volumes was fucking brutal considering the demographic. more abrupt than the anime. I wonder the kind of impact that had on children.
>be careful when using adjectives that require a context of comparison to have meaning
Just so happens that "good" doesn't describe a fixed percentage of titles, but simply means for something to have satisfactory or desired quality. Kinda unforunate that a barely animated show with no artistic merit whatsoever couldn't possibly be considered satisfactory, and therefore good. Put a bit more effort into your poorly executed trolling attempts. At least that's what I hope this drivel is.
Easy answer
The present world is shit, future is bleaked as well.
Meanwhile in this past, we could look forward to the future utopia. The future has now arrived and it was unexpectedly shit compare to our predictions
That was my first encounter with CLAMP. Then I watched CCS and learned it was from the same people that made Rayearth, fortunately it wasn't as cruel.
And then I read X/1999...
>but simply means for something to have satisfactory or desired quality
According to what? Unless you have a specific metric for that any statement of good or bad is mere speculation based on personal tastes.
> The goal is most isekai, be it ReZero, Konosuba, SAO, Grimgar is very much to return to the world they came from.
I personally think that SAO barely fits into an isekai genre, but for the most part the new Isekai start with the protagonist dying in the real world, which means return isn't even considered possible by the protagonist and they do no even try to come up with a way to go back.
You haven't mentioned Youjo Senki or Mushoku tensei or the millions of other stories on narou that start with the same premise.
so it doesn't meet this "desired quality". what does? so far LoGH is objectively the best series you've listed with these qualities, it has the best of them out of anything you've mentioned. objectively.
this isn't trolling, this is literal basic logic. for something to be short, it has to be compared to something long or it simply "is". for something to be good, it has to be compared to something bad or it simply "is". so far, LoGH simply "is".
why are you afraid to name superior series? were you lying and you don't know any? that's the only conclusion I can draw from this, other than grade school level fears like thinking I'll just call what you like bad and hurt your feelings or something. I'm trying to force you to make a sensible argument which you refuse to do.
"desired quality", of which LoGH has the best out of any series you've mentioned. what's better? let's hear it.
>According to what?
Any dictionary of your choice.
en.oxforddictionaries.com
>he begs for recs again
Wow, this is fucking pitiful.
strange dawn is a really interesting take on isekai and not a lot of people have watched it. it's pretty good.
>I'm trying to force you to make a sensible argument which you refuse to do
Read user is an intellectually developed individual who avoids unnecessary compromises like making an argument (doesn't stop him from running his mouth, though).
To be desired or approved by who. You? Are you some kind of authority for these kind of stuff?
why are you deflecting? why won't you give the adjectives you use to justify your arguments any meaning? why is it so hard to answer a simple question? are you lying to only me or yourself as well?
The goal in Youjo Senki very much is to escape the fantasy world the character was thrown in, so pretending for that to not be the goal is pretty dishonest wouldn't you say? Again, most isekai that air on public television have 10+ LN volumes and aren't even finished. Who knows how they'll end?
Fun thing is that the examples of the term he posted all use comparisons. The very thing he vehemently refuses to do.
You don't know either, you are just using the fact the works aren't completed to claim going back to the original world is going to be the main purpose of the story, even if after 10+ novels in most of them there's no mention of that.
Are there any isekai about a fantasy character being transported to our world or would something kind of interesting like that remind the nips of their shitty lives too much to be profitable?
I mean depending on your definitions we've got like three of those this season alone
Yes I am. I have a PhD in Japanimation, Japanese literature and Social Studies.
Nobody is deflecting. You're begging for recs like the newfag you are and expect me to feed you shit to watch. Why would I do that? The merit of a title is by no means chained to the merit of other titles. If you want to defend LoGH and it's poor use of the medium then do so. You don't need anything to compare it to, unless of course it's hard for you to defend it based on its own merits.
Good is a simple adjective that doesn't account for X percent of all anime made. It's a label I can slap on whatever the fuck I want. If I say that a mere 1% of all anime ever made have satisfactory quality then that's how it is.
Wow, you're a smart one aren't you? The difference is that I am not accusing the titles of not doing X, when they might very well do X at some point. Youjo Senki is specifically about doing things to fuck the one who transported the protag to the fantasy environment. So even if the goal might not be to return to the real world, it isn't to stay in the fake world either. It's to fuck with the person who put him there.
There are tons of reverse isekai
Maou being sent to our world is a subgenre by itself
I remember one last year where several characters from different kinda of fantasy/sci-fi world were transported to present day Earth. I haven't watched it beyond a few clips so I don't rember the name.
>Yes I am. I have a PhD in Japanimation, Japanese literature and Social Studies
>Nobody is deflecting
Oops.
You are the smartass who assumes the ignorance of other posters and uses that as a way to imply non adapted materials contradict them when in reality they don't.
>accuse X of not being about Y
>have seen 1 volume of the LN adapted
Tell me: What right do you have to accuse a series of not doing what you want it to do when you've consumed a mere fraction of the available content? Modern Isekai are almost all LN adaptations. How can you piss on them when you don't even know shit about how the story progresses? If the work is intended to be 10 volumes long, why would the author throw homesickness into the first 3 volumes? Isn't it way more logical to bring it up at a later point to show that the character grew sick of the wish fulfillment story they've found themselves in?
Old isekai were honestly hypocritical. They are transported to another world then told it's escapism so they have to come back. How is it escapism if the world is, as far as the story is concerned, just as real as ours? But it's also in a meta sense because why is he writing fantasy stories if he thinks they are escapism? It's double dumb because they are writing an escapist history then in the last moment decide to add a moral as if that justifies anything. (though sometimes this is not it and they leave the world just because, or even stay there after being killed by a train in the case of narnia, so like the op I'm generalizing).
>Stories of young girls and young men visiting another world, in which they mature and discover things about themselves and become stronger people before returning to their own world.
Western isekai never became degenerate like Japan. It just faded into nothing. I can't even recall any isekai related shows/themes in the past decade in the West.
Too bad the ending was rushed. I could have watched a few more episodes of it.
Is wizard of the oz considered a western isekai?