Explain to me why anyone likes this piece of shit? He not only betrayed his own kind by murdering his queen but he also killed countless humans and killed Maria and Mamoru after forcing them to have a child.
The guy deserved every bit of pain he got.
Mostly because he goes against even bigger pieces of shit.
He's a horrible person, but his goal was to oppose a form of tyranny from the people of Kamisu, who are already gigantic asshole through the show, but peak in assholery right in the end when Squealer's actual motivation is revealed.
It's the same method that makes people like Indiana Jones because he fights nazis, even though he is a danger to others and a catastrophe for archaeology.
Yet Kamisu brought order to their pathetic society and gave them lives, while not perfect, was far better than being savages that ate each other all the damn time. Squealer's "goal" was worse than Kamisu. You don't trust a guy who has the tendency to murder those he pretends to ally with as trustworthy.
His entire species were humans who just got literally turned into lab rats for hard labor because the speshul ability faggots couldn't think of a better way to solve the problems they caused.
They tyranically ruled over them like slaves. Him murdering them down to the last woman and child would have been justified should he have had the power to do so.
His queen was complacent in their slavery and a pawn. She had to go as well.
I don't remember him killing his own queen. Labotomized her, sure, because she was still necessary to produce new rats.
There is nothing wrong in killing people if it is to free your species from slavery.
>le government mandated homosexuality anime
>forcing them
>betraying his kind
>killing the queen
user, even needing a Queen for procreation was a measure artificially made by the Espers to create the slave-race that are the rats.
Lobotomizing the Queen is literally Squealer breaking the chains of slavery.
He really did nothing wrong. Except for losing.
He did nothing wrong except losing
He wanted to free his species from slavery.
Squealer did nothing wrong. The ruling humans are all sick bastards who played around with the genetic code too much following an apocalypse of their own making, after their civilization fell apart. Eventually they decided to start playing God and everything that happened is the direct result of that.
I truly believe that if a sequel were to be made it should be about the Cantusniggers getting exterminated.
If you felt sympathetic of the assassins in the 3rd episode who killed that clapping emperor faggot, you wouldnt think this of the rats.
"We could have changed history" was the quote used by both Squealer and that nameless assassin who ended the madness of the Cantus Emperors and their Slave Empires.
These brave non-esper assassins were thanked by the esper scientists by being turned into rats and a genetically engineered slave-race. Think about this for a moment. Think about what you would do in their place.
Squealer did absolutely nothing wrong.
If only Squealer won.
He would have exterminated most cantusniggers and enslaved a few to make them change their genetic code back into becoming humans once again.
Being an rat who depends on a queen to procreate is no way for a sentinent being to live.
>It's the same method that makes people like Indiana Jones because he fights nazis, even though he is a danger to others and a catastrophe for archaeology.
wut
>streaming
Can anyone explain to me what being a karma demon means?
The warp literally overtakes you. You cannot control your powers anymore and you unconsciously mutate your entire environment and all people inside it in a 10 mile radius into a hellscape.
Daily reminder that there will never be a GREAT anime like SSY ever again.
it was okay
>t.OPMfag
literally the cancer of the industry
it's not as malevolent as you describe it, but the effect is the same yeah. Think Annihilation more than The Warp.
>Him murdering them down to the last woman and child would have been justified should he have had the power to do so.
No it wouldn't
His species barley understands what it is to be human and neither does he. He is a rat, that is his kind now. That is what he was born as and what he will die as. This is like saying we should treat monkeys the same or pre-modern man. He wasn't there for any of the atrocities before hand, and hes the only one of his kind who would even care or understand. He just wanted excuses to murder 100s of people who had nothing to do with their slavery or mutation. He's a psychopath that had no real plans for the survival of his people, only revenge.
>His queen was complacent in their slavery and a pawn. She had to go as well.
You mean how they enslaved her to be a breeding sow and nothing else? This nigger would've sacrificed every one of his own people just to take revenge agianst the humans.
He's a piece of shit and deserved to get worse then the torture he was given.
because he's the equivalent to a human turned nigger and wants to become human again
no one can argue this
He didn't have to kill them. They were already free to govern themselves and could easily move away from them. Its the humans that were caged into a specific area in the first place. He did it completley out of revenge and hatred he built up from finding history books about the past.
>killed countless humans and killed Maria and Mamoru after forcing them to have a child
Ok, but that's against a race who've been oppressing them for hundreds of years. Good and evil are defined by perspective, if cockroaches could think they would think of us as evil, but do you ever consider yourself evil for killing them?
SSY is literally the lore of 40K before the advent of the Emperor.
That one girl in the story literally melted her parents into meat furniture with her out of control powers. Not to mention that she was creating an area around herself where laws of physics werent working too.
yeah. but the warp is inherently evil (if i remember my wh40k right). their powers were just uncontrollable but not inherently evil. still lethal and scary tho.
People like to grasp at the one semi-interesting thing about the series.
It's so dull that no one would keep watching it if McSqueels hadn't been introduced.
The story was ultimatley shit from the get go. The history and lore is the most convoluted garbage ive ever heard. No one in this story did anything right, they were all wrong because the the author is a retard who barley understands how real people act or how history actually transpires. Its typical japanese writing where somehow people are just pieces of shit for no explicit reason besides "Lol thats just humanity xD"
Everything in this show is built off a shit premise and yes, that means even that ratboy faggot is shit too.
SSY present such a difficult moral dilemma:
>"Humans" are walking nuclear bombs without safety, with inhuman powers that might lead to their own demise at their own hands and are generally genocidal dicks who rule others by threat of extermination at any perceived slight
>"Rats" are actual humans, mutated by those "humans" and literally turned into purpose made slave workers by forceful genetic modification against their will.
I sympathize with those "Humans" because they are drawn like moe girls!
I dont think the author is so retarded.
Just look at how America abuses the powers they have over the world and you will see that humans that have psychokinetic powers will do much MUCH worse.
This. If the depictions were inverted there'd be no debate.
>It's the same method that makes people like Indiana Jones because he fights nazis
Why would fighting the good guys make me like him more?
>just to take revenge agianst the humans.
They're not humans you fucking retard, no more than the mole people are.
What even happens to him?
>Just look at how America abuses the powers they have over the world
They are the most hands off hegemony to ever exist.
To add, the rats became rats because the cantus users wanted to change their form so much until they became unrecognizable as humans anymore due to the death blowback.
Basically, the perfect slave is the slave that you can genocide at will without feeling any moral qualms about it.
Maybe compared to Nazi Germany.
But not compared to other historical hegemonies that basically never ruled others and never intefered in their domestic politics like the Chinese etc.
The US is literally using the the fucking World Bank and SWIFT to sanction nations that wont do the bidding of Israel.
Squealer needed to kill all cantus niggers, a single one of them can remove squealer and the rat race from the face of earth
Barbaric torture, as expected from the """"humans"""".
As I said, they are the most hands off hegemony to ever exist.
The "humans" are living in peace for the most part user, they mind their own business and live happily ignorant to the outside world and messed up shit the leaders do to each other and the "Rats".
And the humans too are "slaves" when you think about it, they are engineer to follow certain behaviors and a set of rules that if not follow they collapse and die. It's a messed up world all around where there's no such thing as free will for ANYONE involved.
I can't say Squeler did wrong by wanting to free his species but I feel like he rushed his plan, he could have gotten a couple of kids instead of just the one.
based.
>His species barley understands what it is to be human and neither does he.
The fact that he rapidly improved his society through progressive technological and strategic advances is absolute proof of humanity. If anything, it is the cantus that are not human, they have created a static existence that can only be tolerated by mind controlled pawns.
>But not compared to other historical hegemonies that basically never ruled others and never intefered in their domestic politics like the Chinese etc
Yeah if you ignore UK
Killing you is a moral good, and not spending time hunting you down to kill you is a sin I have to ask forgiveness from God for committing. The only thing you are good for is fertilizer. Nazis aren’t human.
They're both humans though.
And in fact, cantus was something always latent in human beings, so they were always definitely human and still are. Not only were cantus users not some separate species of alien like you and many other people over the years like to proclaim, but they were literally people like you and me. Literally the only thing "inhuman" about them is the death feedback, that was added to their genes artificially. And I doubt that would cause a change in species classification.
And it of course, doesn't compare to how genetically modified the queerats are.
The UK was decisively worse than the US.
The grading for worst fucking empires is their track record of fucking with other people:
1. Empires that actually conquer and colonize and genocide others (UK, Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Belgium, Japan)
2. Empires that do regime change and invade others to change their government (USA)
...
90000. Empires that just want other countries to say that they are the greatest and bestest around but make no effort to actually enforce anything because lazy and too arrogant (Chinks).
You can say he didn't have to kill all the cantus users, but there isn't a single one of them that would willingly lower themselves to the level of the queerats, and they would always have the option to genocide them if they felt so inclined
he was a great lider, only wanted the best for his kind and to achieve that he had to do some dirty things, but we as humans do the same.
Saki would have
leader jeez my spanglish is mixing again
They're technically human, yes. But other than outward appearances, the rats are more similar to us, while the psychos are alien both in their possession of superpowers and their brainwashed narrowminded mentalities.
Except she clearly didn't?
Squealer did nothing wrong. If you can't understand this you're a 50 IQ brainlet.
She probably would have if they didn't kill her friends, abduct their child, wipe out her friends and family, and terrorize her village, and try to kill her
Id pull his guts out his asshole for murdering my friends and turning their kid into the most subhuman thing in the show, forcing me to kill it too.
He did plenty bad things, but he did it for good reasons. The "humans" did bad things out of plain hatred and arrogance.
and the whole queen breeding colony thing
Just another thing forced on them by the """"gods"""" to make them seem unhuman.
>NONONO REEEEEEE ME KILL UUUUUU
?
Everything he did was justified. The "humans" deserved to be wiped out of existence.
>American education
>murder fantasies against le nazis
cringe and bluepilled
More like shinsekai yurifags btfo
"Homo" in Homo sapiens is not the same "homo" as in homosexual. Dumb nips.
>She probably would have lowered herself to the level of the queerats if the queerats didn't do the things that made the possibility of the cantus users having to lower themselves to the level of the queerats anything more than a complete joke
>Squealer's "goal" was worse than Kamisu.
What the actual fuck are you talking about? Squealer's goal was the Human's goal: eliminate all the psi mutants and revert humanity back to its original self while presumably using germline gene therapy to permanently eliminate the psy mutation (and requiring genetic testing and general screening for it ever coming back), bring the world back to how it once was. That would have restored full civilization and given humanity another chance to head for the stars.
The psi civilization is frankly fucking doomed from what we see. The world keeps getting more and more fucked up from all the psionic pollution directed outside their borders. They've had to continuously reduce technology, education, and individuality in order to keep things in check. There is no clear sign that there is a real future for them looking centuries/millennia down the line.
>and the whole queen breeding colony thing
That was just another restriction mechanism put on humans. Wanting to get rid of it was not wrong.
>Not supporting the true humans over the filthy psychics rejects who ruined civilization.
OP, as always, is a faggot.
plus their queens were going nuts.
>ugly ratman wrong
>pretty psychic people good
Man it really sucks that none of humanity could at least escape into space. That might have given them enough time to figure out a full scale production bioplague, an improved version of the psychobuster or whatever, that could wipe everything out and give them another shot
I was hoping their society would die, all of them. Cantu's users deserved the same fate.
No she wouldn’t because she hypocritally lets Kiroumaru sacrifice himself to trigger the death feedback in the Messiah. She only feels sorry for Squealer because she realizes everything he said was right but she’s such a crybaby sycophant preaching false platitudes and gives him a mercy kill because rather than fight the injustice/stand for the truth she claims to believe in, she kept the status quo and became what she hated. If anything her mercy kill for squealer was more of a ln out for herself so she could keep some semblance of moral superiority when she realized she had bankrupt of morality the entire time. Even sucks more in the LN because 10 years later she has the gall to say things will get better while she enforced the status quo of tyranny & lies against the beast people.
To be fair the autor’s “point” is that everyone is a hypocrite and no one really believes in what they say. They only soapbox to make themselves feel good not anyone else. The only problem is that Squealer, monster he may be is the only person who breaks this mold and in the end showed he was more human than anyone. He admitted his loss and his evil but died truthful to his ambition and his victims. Saki lives but she lives a placating lie against everything she preached about.
Squira is kind of cute in a way.
Maria and Mamoru going through all this offscreen makes me sick.
No he couldn't. Live forms away from the Kantus users are mutated into hideous monsters. We saw how things were in the former war zone. All Kantus users need to be wiped out in order to save the Rats.
eh
unpopular opinion but so true op! i love elves and the cantus humans here really reminded me of how great they are, handsome and superior to normies. was disgusting to see furry trash claiming to be human or trying to steal human ideas but luckily the elves won and kept rats from destroying the environment like we are with global warming!
I bet there was a turbo-psyker hidden in the Himalayas in his secret lab all the time who was just waiting for his moment to conquer whole earth and restore order to make humanity a galactic imperium.
Squealer was a representation of the patriarchy, a peaceful maternal society had been developed but he tried to enslave women and cut down all the forests for capitalist patriarch destruction.
The only thing he did wrong was losing
This show made me really think for the first time that the Inquisition had a point.
what exactly was happening here? like what were they doing to him or doing to his brain?
>maternal
they abandon children and killed them with psychic cats
They always had a point.
They used their psyker powers to torture him until he nearly dies, only to heal him again and do it once again. He ends up as a lump of living flesh unable to die until the MC mercy kills him at the end.
He fought for our kind. You should be proud of him.
Retard, his race were the REAL humans before the espers genetically fucked them up, he has every right to murder the ones who ruined his species and uses them as slaves.
Cantusniggers:
>collapsed the old world order, thereby destroying technological evolution that may have allowed them to live in better harmony with normal humans
>literally ruled slave empires until somebody got the guts to assassinate
>ruthlessly experimented with genetics to not help people grow, but to instead restrain themselves and lower other people to the level of mere animals
>treated said other people as slaves for their own use
>only wanted the best for his kind
>caused more destruction to his kind by initially strifes and wiping out other clans
Correct, because if he had won, it would have been worth it.
This is how every war goes. It was a gamble and he lost because he wasn't prepared enough.
There is no "real humans" dumbass. They're both humans in fact Squealer may be even less of a human.
> he has every right to murder the ones who ruined his species and uses them as slaves.
He has no right to do anything that's why his own fucking kind sided with the humans instead of him
I doubt that he forced Maria and Mamoru to have a child.
First because Maria or Mamoru could probably have wiped most of their kind if they wished. Second because it would have been tricky to force them to have sex and maintain Maria safe and pregnant until she had a child.
And lastly,but most important, because he didn't need most likely. Maria and Mamoru only had each other, they liked each other, and were under a mountain of stress, and their kind gets more horny as they get more stressed.
So Squeal only needed to pretend to help them and wait until Maria had a child, then kill them. (In their sleep, most likely).
Also, Squeal did wrong things (like most likely killing Maria and Mamoru), but he had reasons for it, and his enemies were much, much worse than him.
I don't mind that Squeal died, or how he died, but that disgusting village chief is still alive makes me furious. It was a rare case of an anime that made me feel bad for some time after finish watching.
What is this?
>because if he had won, it would have been worth it.
Nah because it ultimate;y shows even his own kind thought he was a piece of shit
>This is how every war goes
And by this logic he's no different from the Cantus users who also built their foundation and utopia by the sacrifices of many.
>I doubt that he forced Maria and Mamoru to have a child.
He did. Did you eve watch the fucking show?
Most of his own kind supported him though, it was only those loyal to the Queen who opposed him. Remember that he was the one who took power, not the Messiah who couldn't even reliably kill any opposing Queerats even if she wanted to. So that's not true.
>and by this logic he's no different from the Cantus users
Wrong, the Cantus users are the cause of all the existing problems in the world. They prevent the Queerats from escaping by destroying the places they don't live indirectly. They hold a sword over the Queerats necks any time they choose to exercise their free will. They fucking played God and genetically engineered an entire species into a bunch of naked mole rat mutants. Cantusniggers don't live in a utopia, they live in a nightmare of their own making where they have to kill their own children to prevent the world from ending again.
I did. Did you read what I said? There was no need for him to force them, and it would have been very tricky to do so if he tried.
Why do you assume he forced them?
Well by all your metrics, Americans are the cantusniggers of the current era. Russia and China as well, though to a lesser extent.
Pollution, subjugation of less developed people, tens of thousands of literal war ending nuclear warheads.
But I bet if the Middle East and Africa were to start bombing your homes and cities and kidnapping your children, you wouldn't side with them.
because the humans in that show kinda sucked
>If
>his race were the REAL humans
If I remember correctly, psychokinesis awakened in natural humans, it's not like they were artificially altered. You can hardly say they weren't/aren't human.
He did everything he could to rid the world of the fascist espers who enslaved humanity and stagnated the world for a thousand years.
How do you think he was supposed to do it? Through the fascist's system? If you want to liberate yourself, it will be bloody.
this
please don’t vote
>US attacks those who won’t do the bidding of Israel
>US is the final boss
When I finished watching the show, I went on sites like MAL and similar to see what people were saying about it. I was very shocked that almost everyone sided with the main couple and the espers and at best had some vague sympathy for Squeal. I'm glad to see that Yea Forums isn't like that.
If Squealer had succeded wouldn't his plan have tripped up on the prospect that the kidnapped babies would realize that they were a seperate species from the Queerats? Furthermore, he knew about the death feedback, but not about the multiple other ways of cinditioning the kamis received. Also, a Karma demon would have been their end.
they altered themselves and others after the fact bro
that's what the whole sage academy BS is for, as well as the death feedback bullshit
His "kind" sided with him, the only exception are a few loyalist dickbags who stuck onto human cock. He has every right to exterminate them, for a whole garden variety of reasons listed here Let alone the fact that if all Queerats died the world wouldn't get any better but if all Cantusniggers died the world actually could be settled peacefully again
>they altered themselves and others after the fact bro
They altered themselves to be less dangerous than their natural state, that hardly makes them inhuman.
Squealer made one mistake and that was not creating backups, perhaps by purposefully raiding villages for a bunch of children and raising them together as part of the colony.
A Karma Demon is a rare situation which is unlikely to happen. All he had to do was let his Queerat indoctrinated Messiahs liberate the world for them and then either let them die without breeding or straight up kill them (they can't defend themselves without dying to death feedback either). Then he could return the world back to its natural state without cantusniggers.
>people think the modern humans are responsible for the genetic engineering etc of the rats
>implying they're not just a scared ignorant civilization living in the shadow of the past
They're still intentional mutants who enslaved another mutant population of humans they created. Literally playing God in every sense.
>who enslaved another mutant population of humans they created
After said population literally tried to wipe them out of existence first, even the ones who were innocent and never hurt anybody, simply for what they were.
They are, though. It went:
Current Earth -> Cantus Appearance -> Civilization Ruined by Cantus -> Cantus Overlords -> Cantus Genetic Engineering and Techniques (which is where Queerats aka powerless humans got fucked up) -> Current Society
The Current Society is the same as the one which did the engineering. We know this because they still use the cats and other mutated animals for their benefits, which was a system created by the founders of that society. Queerats are part of it, too. All the ruling populace is implicit.
he might have deserved it, but he was the only likeable character in the entire show.
Nigger tier response. What you don't mention is that only some countries hundreds of years before that did what you claim and the result was a tantrum which sent the world back to a temporary stone age. And THEN the Cantusniggers started dictatorships and once that was over they tried playing God again but more discretely this time.
So no, it is not true that ALL powerless humans EVER wanted to kill all Cantus users. Meanwhile, all the Cantus users later agreed to fucking genetically destroy the rest of the powerless human race. It's funny you try to flip that on its head.
>tantrum
>be 0.3% of the population
>a bunch of individuals out of your already tiny population are bad
>rest 99.7% of humanity decides you must die and begins extermination campaigns
>fight for your life
>"tantrum"
People like you are just as bad as the bad Cantus users in your utter lack of empathy, it's highly ironic that you cannot see yourself for what you actually are.
>all the Cantus users later agreed to fucking genetically destroy the rest of the powerless human race
Do you even know why they even made that decision?
Retards like to be contrarian and/or unironically edgy. Most of his fan faggots champion how he "just wants his people to be free" blah blah "rise up!". It's funny when you cut through all the bullshit Squealer is actually a humongous hypocrite and just wants to be on top.
With that being said though the humans in this show were retarded too, so there's at least that.
>global warming is real
I hope cantus is real and every squealer apologist specifically turns out to have cantus so we can call them inhuman bombs and rape their families and gut them alive. They'll have no choice but to allow us too, because we'll be doing nothing wrong.
After you all get turned into rats and enslaved for centuries, naturally
Truth here honestly. Nothing has come close to making me feel SSY has felt.
Shhh, dangerous inhuman mutants don't get to speak.
If any other country had the power America had 500 years ago they would have taken over the planet and killed anyone who said otherwise. You should be fucking grateful we let you sneak into our country and live off our gibs.
This premise really sounds like its stolen from Zardoz.
He was a bitch. Literally could of fucked off to any part of the world with his pet esper and had peace and prosperity far away from any of the Kamisu retards. It was very clear in the show Kamisu didn't really care to explore the world or venture around much. And with a loyal esper not afraid to merc shit nothing could of threatened him out there. He stayed to get revenge and to conquer the other rats when they wanted nothing to do with him and got him and his people killed for it. He forced and "them or us" when he held all the cards for success anywhere else but there. Literally did everything wrong from the start of the "war".
Nah, it’s man after man with better master race
What's the next masterpiece to come out after SSY?
Seriously, its been several years already.
The same could be said of all ethnicities.
OP is clearly sucking the dicks of some communist statist regime to not understand the worth of fighting for one's rights.
I feel like most of the show's strength comes from the story being successfully adapted from a good novel (not an LN). Everything else about the show isn't really spectacular.
OP is literally a capitalist cuckboi like you who don't understand that Squealer was a socialist revolutionary fighting against fascism
Rakugo.
Other person. Yes, there was no need to force them. But is realy messed up when I thing about the event. Because later, in spring, Squealer send some bones to confirm the death of the kids. And a remember that Mary bones where from a limb...
And then I can only how Squealer treat his own queens.
>His "kind" sided with him
They didn't hence why there were oppositions opposed to him and how he had plantations that was against him wiped out. Even his kind hated him because he was a warmongering piece of shit.
>There was no need for him to force them
They would never agreed with him to begin with since they hated him.
See
The grandma was so fucking hot, god damn
>Most of his own kind supported him though
Wrong. There was warring factioms between his colony and the others and he was accused of wiping up the other colonies without premission. Kiromaru hated his ass and pointed put the other colonies didn't have a high opinion of him its why you only saw his colony during the invasion because he had already wiped out those who opposed him except the Giant Hornets.
>Wrong, the Cantus users are the cause of all the existing problems in the world.
Wrong again dumbass. The current problems in this world are the results of previous generations all the Cantus users have been doing is sustaining their oen prosperity knowing that they're essentially ticking bombs. Queerats aren't human and don't have any rights, they "were" humans but they have long since lost their humanity without the Cantus users they would have no society to begin with.
The Cantus users could perfectly be the ancestors of the gene-splicers clans and psyker warlords of the Unification Wars. So the Emperor eventually render judgment own each of them for their crimes on mankind.
remember in the show there was an emperor who forced people to clap for him 3days straight or be set on fire by his mind.
No, he appealed to the warring factions. remember when they were discussing about how the queer rats last war didnt have any casualties and were missing? Squealer had them join his side.
>Wrong again dumbass. The current problems in this world are the results of previous generations all the Cantus users have been doing is sustaining their oen prosperity knowing that they're essentially ticking bombs. Queerats aren't human and don't have any rights, they "were" humans but they have long since lost their humanity without the Cantus users they would have no society to begin with.
with out kantus users they wouldnt be queer rats at all! they didnt need the kantus users any more and they proved it by building their own weapons and advancing their technology.
Even then these cantus users were killing their own kids if they werent able to use their powers, or banish them if they were too powerful. Their society lives off of fear and deciet.
> he was accused of wiping up the other colonies without premission
He wiped those cunts out because they were loyalist to the cantusniggers
>Kiromaru hated his ass
The biggect Cuck loyalist that existed in the show
>The current problems in this world are the results of previous generations
Absolute Cantusnigger Apologist reasoning
>Cantus users have been doing is sustaining their oen prosperity knowing that they're essentially ticking bombs
>Cantus users who also built their foundation and utopia by the sacrifices of many
>utopia
Spoken like a true Commie, yes the cantus niggers truly created the greatest utopia where all children once spawned are vetted and culled for the slightest hint of aggressive personality traits so basically the idea of toxic
masculinity is completely demonized.
Hell, show below the average progression in cantus learning and they will morph you into a queerat.
Oh you've survived the prepubescent level comrade? Well in the adolescent stage, we are gonna manipulate you to be gay so we can control your raging hormones but also prevent spikes in unwanted pregnancies.
Well done, you have reached adulthood, oh whats that you came across a "false doctrine monster" fuck dude we have to kill you now because only government sponsored information is allowed to reach your mind.
Oh thats not good enough for you? You want to leave? well OK you can leave just to let you know we are gonna hunt you down, we also genetically created these evil monster things that explode in your face if you happen to come by them, add to that we created these crazy ass cats to chase you down and rip you apart; because the idea of a free individual is a giant existential threat to our way of living. Remember those fiend things? yea, youll bascically be one of those in our eyes.
Yes, this is truly the utopia that Karl Marx would be proud of. Its no reason why you cantus nigger apologist are for it. Collectivism at its finest.
Based.
this
He faced gods with zero chance of win and put quite a fight.
>cantus coons
>""""humans"""""
I'm not saying that what he did wasn't messed up, just that most likely he didn't forced them, it was much easier and much more safe and useful to just trick them and later kill them.
Agreed him with what? He obviously didn't tell them that he planned to use their child to kill the espers. Instead he probably just pretended that he was going to help them, since they didn't have anyone else to rely on, and maybe even ask for favors occasionally that the espers could do easily but the rat-people could not. That way he gained help with building things and similar and would look more genuine in preteding to help the couple to live.
After a while Maria would be pregnant, then she would have the child, then he could just kill the couple in their sleep or poison them.
Much easier than whatever he would have to do to actually force them to have sex and maintain Maria alive and healthy for 9 months without any of the two wiping them out.
They were two VERY horny teenagers without condons who only had each other. It was just a question of time.
youtube.com
Justice star is shining bright.
Is shinsekai yori a commentary on the morality of generic modifications? Or a commentary on something else?
>commentary on something else
Basically an alternate universe of x-men, where the the mutants win and wipe out everyone else whilst trying to create system checks and balances to prevent the same thing from happening again, only to create a fragile solution where it takes only one dickhead to fuck it all up.
Exploring superpowers translating into civilization is always fun though.
>Yes, this is truly the utopia that Karl Marx would be proud of.
You don't know shit about Marx m8.
Read a book.
SSY discussed a lot more than genetic modification, e.g. government surveillance and the whole rotten egg thing, granted that this sort of thing has already been discussed in 1984, it was still fun to see it in action in a universe where every child has the equivalent of a nuclear bomb in their hands.
Ah finally got one to come out of the woodwork.
>You don't know shit about Marx m8.
>Read a book.
Well firstly why don't you stop yourself from using nigger responses of ad-hominem and formulate an arguement.
(yes, i know you won't as its your only go to reaction you fucking commie filth)
Let's just talk results.
Result of normal society winning: extermination of cantus people wrecking havok: normal timeline, human civilization progresses.
Result of cantus people winning: society regresses to stone age, 99.7% of humans killed or turned into rat slaves. Cantus society slowly declining anyway because of 1984 like policies. One accident away from extinction.
Gee, I wonder what would've been better.
>Result of normal society winning: extermination of cantus people wrecking havok: normal timeline, human civilization progresses.
The problem is the cantus problem is genetic so its impossible to truly weed out. Its like trying to prevent albinos from existing.
The sad fact about this universe is, the extinction of normal humans was inevitable.
>betrayed own kind by murdering his queen
the queen is a different species though
>killed humans
yeah, the humans enslaving them
the only morally grey thing he did was lobotomize a pregnant girl and surgically remove her bones while living
youtube.com
Need Professor X to get them in check.
>lobotomize a pregnant girl and surgically remove her bones while living
dude they fucking killed her and took her baby
baby takes 9 months to be made, they delivered the bones/teeth a few days after they ran away
they drugged/lobotomized her like they did their queens so they could take the bones
The whole "Sheltered society deliberately creating complacent people" is another one. I feel like that concept was lost on the people who thought it was dumb that nobody was capable of sacrificing themselves to kill the fiend.
This, thniking about this makes me mad, Cantusniggers need to be annihilate from existence.
The only good cantusnigger is a dead cantusmigger
SSY is a commentary on necessary evil and benefits if tyranny.
>His species barley understands what it is to be human and neither does he. He is a rat, that is his kind now. That is what he was born as and what he will die as. This is like saying we should treat monkeys the same or pre-modern man. He wasn't there for any of the atrocities before hand, and hes the only one of his kind who would even care or understand. He just wanted excuses to murder 100s of people who had nothing to do with their slavery or mutation. He's a psychopath that had no real plans for the survival of his people, only revenge.
>He just wanted excuses to murder 100s of people
>murder 100s of people
>100s of people
>100s
WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU ILLITERATE, UNEDUCATED FUCKS COME FROM?
"100s" AND HUNDREDS ARE NOT THE SAME THING. 100s IS LIMITED TO A RANGE OF 100 AND 199 WHEREAS HUNDREDS IS A RANGE BETWEEN 100 AND 999. STOP TYPING IT OUT LIKE THIS YOU FUCKING RETARDS
Cantus apologists should be gassed
> 100s IS LIMITED TO A RANGE OF 100 AND 199 WHEREAS HUNDREDS IS A RANGE BETWEEN 100 AND 999. STOP TYPING IT OUT LIKE THIS YOU FUCKING RETARDS
Didnt realize we were in formal academic forum where using COLLOQUIAL language to COMMUNICATE was forbidden.
I guess formalities are more important than creating sense of general contextual understanding in a mongolian basket weaving chat site.
The only thing that makes me calm in relation to the end of the anime is that the situation with the bonobo-esper people was focused on Japan.
Probably one day a "normal" esper, or even a normal human, will arrive at their village, discover that they can't directly harm him, and they will suffer for that choice of life style.
Well gee, I'm sorry that I'm getting angry because you uneducated dribbling retards don't understand things that even people of fourth-grade educations are capable of comprehending. I didn't realize that the difference between "100s" and "Hundreds" was considered high academia to your type.
Fucking retard.
I can beat the shit out of Squealer in a 1v1
Not that user but weeding out genetics is completely possible with our modern tech, more so in a future civilization.
Its not cheap or easy but its easily doable
>Its like trying to prevent albinos from existing.
We can do that
Didn't the first mutant start going around killing people?
Yes. That's why normal human started hunting down cantus users
>I didn't realize that the difference between "100s" and "Hundreds" was considered high academia to your type
Capability of comprehesion is truly a skill to covet when the post you are responding to is sub-textually implying in a satirical sense that, WE DONT GIVE A FUCK and the idea is still communicated.
But yea, your the sorry end product of shitty government schooling, so its really not your fault for having half of your brain rotting away. I blame your mom and dad though.
>completely possible
but not feasible. Imagine having a government screening your wife and her unborn whether to deem it 'proper' for society. It's just another totalitarian regime like the kamisu.
>Imagine having a government screening your wife and her unborn whether to deem it 'proper' for society.
No, just you and your wife before copulation.
>It's just another totalitarian regime like the kamisu.
Not really. One is humane while other kills/alters people against their will plus enforces eugenics after the child is born
I felt the same way at the end at first. However, the entire series follows Saki slowly being driven to the realization that balance in her society is tenuous at best and while wanton killing can't be allowed, there has to be an outlet for their aggressive tendencies. One of the themes is that for this society to have some semblance of functionality, every group has to be trapped in their rigid roles. So I kind of understand why Saki ultimately decides to uphold the status quo in the end, as fucked as it is.
>just you and your wife before copulation.
so basically you need to be genetically determined and then a government powerful enough to tell certain couples not to breed. that screams totalitarian.
>enforces eugenics after the child is born
m8 the system you speak of is still enforcing eugenics.
>eugenics = Marx
>propaganda = Marx
>everything I don't like is marxism
Eat a dick nigger
Did you? Never was it stated that he forced them, it isn't even said that he killed them BUT there was a strong emphasis on the fact two young socials creatures thrown in the wild are as good as dead.
>that screams totalitarian.
It only needs mandate from the people not to be one and unlike with Kamisu there is no brainwashing or threat of death involved.
Its not "totalitarian" to clear out from destructive elements without purging people. All that matters if the public opinion and before you argue it would be against you must remind yourself that 9/11 is a joke compared to shit cantus can do.
>m8 the system you speak of is still enforcing eugenics
Sure, but theyre humane eugenics. Just like we abort those born with autism or serious disabilities, we wont allow human weapons of mass destruction to be born. And instead of current system concerning aborts, we wont let such mistakes to pop up in the first place.
Its completely doable and the moral thing to do, just accept it user
Except it wouldn't be the government doing it, it would be society.
Screening of unborn children already exists today, defects such as downs syndrome can be identified beforehand and doctors give the option to terminate the pregnancy, the majority of people do end up terminating when that happens.
When other people begin genetic modification to prevent birth defects and increase overall health, it will become a huge a moral and ethical issue for parents to decide not to opt in to those benefits for their children, very similar to parents not allowing their children have vaccinations. The government will regulate it, sure, but society will still demand and utilize it for better or worse.
No Warp is not inherently evil. It is just a mirror to the people of the galaxy. If I remember right the Old Ones were the first to fuck with it making weapons out of it. And over time it was getting worse and worse with Eldar hedonism, rape and murder galore being the last straw. After that it kind of entered into a self supporting loop - everything is shit, Warp is shit, it tries to make everything even shittier.
Wasn't the rest of the world ( or at the very least former Japan) outside of Cantus controlled society, extremely dangerous shitholes, dominated by mutants though?
>option to terminate the pregnancy
its not an option when you are FORCED to abort. what about the people who want to keep their cantus baby? how to do you stop the pregnancies of cantus outside the system without screening every single person with/without consent? see the problem?
>we wont allow human weapons of mass destruction to be born
see my argument above
I don't think what he did was evil. I don't believe he had evil intentions I think he just wanted his people to be free. The idea of Maria and Mamoru being killed shortly after the child was born breaks my heart and the idea that he used their child like a mindless puppet to do his bidding does make me think Squealer deserves punishment but Jesus the punishment he got is way beyond overkill quite literally. Seeing all the "humans" cheering on that kind of torture made me see how inhuman they are. Plus there's the detail of Squealer and the rest of his kind technically being part human too.
Why are you so angry about a chinese cartoon user? Is everything ok in your life?
Homo literally means 'same' tho
Have to agree with the idea that humanity is just doomed in this universe. Even if you exterminated all the espers and instituted genetic screening, all it would take is a single individual to sidestep it and you're back to the same apocalypse you had before. And if you do keep the espers, the uncontrollable physic pollution will eventually distort reality beyond repair in time. It's honestly a deeply depressing universe, it was all over as soon as the first esper awakened.
the ruling class of the espers was debased to the core, but people are quick to blame the lower class citizens despite the fact that they are victims of the system as well, what I don't get is why the scientists felt rat slaves were so important instead of just keeping them as humans and introducing the death feedback alterations as well
C'mon, that is not a way to treat a fellow human being.
I consider him the most interesting, memorable and strong character in the whole series, so I like him regardless of whether he was morally right or not.
Have you ever seen the Indiana Jones films? He destroys countless archaeological artifacts and sites, kills people and endangers civilians.
And yet he is praised as an irreplaceable archaeologist and a hero, just because he punches nazis and steals a few artifacts.
Everyone in that show was literal piece of shit. The only side worse than them were scientist who created current world.
>felt rat slaves were so important instead of just keeping them as humans and introducing the death feedback alterations as well
Because that would mean humans will be below the food chain and regulated as a slave anyway. Because of free-will humans will naturally be against tyranny. Squealer is a epitome of that, even as a mutated fucking lesser spawn of human.
Now the reason why the cantus didn't kill off all humans and morphed them as queerats is the same reason why humans are building robots which generate automation to make their lives easier.
Queerats would not likely rebel. The perfect cotton nigger
>its not an option when you are FORCED to abort.
For nost accidental preggies this isnt the case since Cantus users are a small minority. Though luck for those that are though, allowing living weapons is inhumane and a threat to society/themselves.
>What about the people who want to keep their cantus baby?
See above. We already deal with these people, theyre called abusive parents.
>how to do you stop the pregnancies of cantus outside the system without screening every single person with/without consent?
We dont, we take the baby away from them. Birthing in the woods is parental negligence of worst sort, even if the baby was a normal human he or she should be taken away. The kid, regardless of his state is effectively outside of society at that point and parents are committing a heinous crime.
>see the problem?
Not really, no. We already deal with your examples.
the means justify the goals
>murdering the queen
yeah killing and overthrowing a tyrant
>killed Maria and Mamoru after forcing them to have a child
and the humans litterally turned them into monsters and made slaves of them
yeah its not like you can explicitly see the progress he brought
new building, modern laws who knows to where he would have brought up the society if he freed his people
I wonder if the ani-Squelar lobby would sing the same song if the show was about some alien lizard race enslaving humans and forcefully reverting their civilization to a prehistoric level al while slaughtering them as they like, including the lizard children doing it basically for fun. Because this is basically going on in the show.
>entire point of the cantus is that they lost their humanity in all but their appearance
>entire point of the disgusting rat men is that they are merely a slave race rising up, but actually they're humans, in all but appearance
>giant rat that awoke to justice enacts a once in a lifetime plan to overthrow the psyker shits at all costs
>take away is that war does not discriminate and the means only justify the end if the end is met
>to that end, the new generation of cantus, now bearing knowledge of the true nature of their people and the ratmen, will make an effort to better their society through other means
>DUH GIANT RAT DAT MAKES ALL OF DUH RULES BAD, CANTUS GOOD CUZ DEY LOOK LIKE POIPLE DEY DINDU NUFFIN
It wasn't even a particularly clever plot. How are you retards dense enough to completely fail to understand it?
They even made Squealer's punishment a living hell to hammer the point home that the cantus are basically inhuman
>allowing living weapons is inhumane and a threat to society/themselves.
What you've stated falls under the category of a subjective opinion. What makes you think someone else with a contrary opinion to your that:
>allowing living weapons is inhumane and a threat to society/themselves
won't exist.
That's why i stated its a totalitarian system that needs to be implemented. It's you comply to our subjective belief or die. Even if it'll lead to the destruction of mankind, Their will always exist a single mother who wants their child to live.
>take the baby away from them
and thats why that system is similar to kamisu.
>parental negligence
thats is going off on a tangent there m8, but your point of birthing out of the system is still again subjective. see my arguement above
>what about people that want human nukes as their children
well im sorry nukes are illegal
i mean china does worse things in our timeline this would be the easiest law to pass and everyone would agree and in a few decades we will be able to remove those genes directly so the laws would be rescinded anyway a small price to pay so 99.7% of the human population of the earth dosent die and humanity dosent regress to a stone age and permanently stagnate
>>to that end, the new generation of cantus, now bearing knowledge of the true nature of their people and the ratmen, will make an effort to better their society through other means
Wasn't it implied that the cantus fags actually running the show are aware of that?
There's a bigger chance of them just getting lobotomized, or else some less stable individual may feel bad bad about it and accidentaly implode a whole village.
Their society is incredibly unstable as is, cannot afford to introduce new factors. Why do you think they voluntarily reverted their own civilizational level?
it is not a subjective belief that the existence of cantus niggers immediately endangers every single person on earth even if they are peaceful their cantus leaks and wreaks havoc and since we have a right to self defense and they endanger our lifes anyway(willingly or unwillingly) we have a right to defend ourselves
Trying to free your people is not a bad thing. Retards can't handle genuinely complicated situations in a cartoon.
>easiest law to pass and everyone would agree and in a few decades
>tell that to Airwrecka when she finds out that Labrickashawn can lifts things using air.
>What you've stated falls under the category of a subjective opinion.
if 1 person in a room of 100 people has the ability to kill the other 99 people with nothing but their mind, you consider it a ""subjective matter"" whether or not that one person is inherently dangerous?
are you retarded?
>I sympathize with those "Humans" because they are drawn like moe girls!
This is the entire cantusnigger apologists' mindset, those "people" would forgive the murderer of their parents if she was a cute girl, in fact they would even let her peg their asshole.
>we have a right to defend ourselves
so to do the cantus.
Did you not watch the x-men movies?
Oh you want to forcibly suppress mutant powers with drugs? magneto will just fucking throw bridges at you.
My point is resistance is futile.
please refer to comment below:
>What you've stated falls under the category of a subjective opinion.
Its not subjective when thousands die due to one cantus going berserk. Plus we see that my opinion is objectively correct.
>won't exist.
Youre not wrong to assume so but just like we have anti vac we would have pro cantus. The death toll just needs to rise up to a certain point which would eventually happen. History is brimmed with examples like these, from guns to vaccines. Eventually numbers win out.
.>It's you comply to our subjective belief or die. Even if it'll lead to the destruction of mankind,
But its not subjective and as time passes the fact will become more clear. And no, monopoly on violence alone wont destroy human race and neither will selective breeding where 99% can go about their day like normal.
>Their will always exist a single mother who wants their child to live.
And? That doesnt mean he or she cant be taken away and it doesnt mean child will be killed. He or she will live in a semi controlled enviroment.
>and thats why that system is similar to kamisu.
Not really since kids arent killed off.
>birthing out of the system is still again subjective.
Most people would agree with me that giving birth innawoods and raising a kid without schooling or proper healthcare is a heinous act. How do I know this? Since its already codified in the law
Just because opinions are subjective doesnt mean some arent better or more received than other
oh yeah shit i forgot that this shit would only work in civilized countries
africa would unironically be our doom since they dont have the government structure to bring this about
we would need a popular global fascist dictatorship with a roster of alphabet aganices that would make our america seem like amateurs and everything would need to be done in a matter of months otherwise it would be too late
so that said if this happened to us now we would all die
he didn't murder his queen, baka, they lobotomised her
exactly
yes but they are actively or passively endangering everyones lives and therefore forfeiting any rights
its like you are oblivious of the concept of self defense
>that dude is coming at me with a knife i cant shoot him because he is a human being and he deserves to live
and this is what every single person with catus is doing from the moment they have cantus they are holding the whole world at gunpoint while poisoning everyone literally breaking the NAP by existing
>Did you not watch the x-men movies?
you mean the condensed romanticized garbage flicks? I've seen a couple
to assume that's the entirety of the x-men dilemma is just ignorance
have a look here at a mutie that awoke one day to a power that incinerates anybody in a certain radius
scans-daily.dreamwidth.org
the opinion of any given mutie will depend almost entirely on how "acceptable" their power is
in one of the movies you may be referring too, Rogue(the one that kills anybody she touches) is elated to hear that there's a way she can be fixed. But then Storm(the bitch who can control the fucking weather) butts in and insists they're all perfect babbus that don't need no fixin.
> this is what every single person with catus is doing from the moment they have cantus they are holding the whole world at gunpoint while poisoning everyone literally breaking the NAP by existing
Yes and believe it or not there will be some retards that won't care.
>i cant shoot him because he is a human being and he deserves to live
Its not the fact that you can't shoot him, its the fact that there will be people retarded enough to protect him and die protecting him.
of course there would be and thats basically aiding and abetting a murderer, literally someone helping a cantus nigger kill you and therefore its okay to kill those people too since they are also actively(in this they are worse than the cantus folks since they for various reasons willingly choose to do this knowing the consequences) working on harming you
Why did their powers turn the modern civilization into that middle age shit they were in?
god it feels like in going in circles, it was also a jest to what im just gonna sum it up.
Our debate is similar to the philosophical dilemma that magneto and professor X have in the series.
Magento believes that the human race is facing an existential threat and he believes the only way for humans to exist is to kill all mutants. So he justifies total human genocide.
Professor X believes mutants and humans can co-exist, so he does his bidding to keep that bond.
But in reality the only beings with the power to sustain that debate are the mutants.
Humans don't have the say or be able to do anything about it. They are in the total mercy of the mutants.
hence why i refer you to the comment:
Because with their powers they don't need most things we used today.
Well in this universe its a fact that humans and cantus niggers cant coexsist
This.
It's like the Troubles in Northern Ireland.
The IRA are pieces of shit who kills civilians, but the British and the Loyalists are even more gigantic awful worse pieces of shit, so you cheer for anyone opposing them, especially when their motives are justified even if there actions aren't. (Literally just stop murdering Catholics, Loyalists and literally just end the Protestant Apartheid State and give Catholics human rights, Brits)
You can end up getting too deep in your hatred for the worse of two evils and see the actual justified motivations of the lesser of two evils and end up actually liking and admiring them.
>Humans don't have the say or be able to do anything about it. They are in the total mercy of the mutants.
Yes, so from a completely objective standpoint, it stands to reason that if such a problem were to make itself present, it would be in humanity's best interest to nip it in the bud before it got out of their control.
Whether a few decades of genetic culling would be worth not risking centuries of catastrophic conflict, would obviously be unclear and constantly up for debate, but the presence of metahumans is a dangerous factor that changes the entire nature of humanity itself and how it is approached as a subject
Again, giving a living weapon the same rights as a regular human is inhumane, not only to the population but also to the bearer. At that point, everyone involved becomes ruled by fear.
>Humans don't have the say or be able to do anything about it. They are in the total mercy of the mutants.
youtube.com
Didn't the sentinels also enslave the humans?
if not why wouldn't they?
Everything he did, he did for the sake of its own race. His actions are as reasonable and justified as any hero's.
>humanity's best interest to nip it in the bud before it got out of their control
how do you go about doing that?
like mentioned in this comment?
What about the uncivilised societies?
refer to this comment:
My point is human solution is not feasible. and occam's razor points to no viable solution.
In simple words we are fucked in this universe and its inevitable.
>Wasn't it implied that the cantus fags actually running the show are aware of that?
Yes (they may have spelled it out explicitly, it's been a while since I watched it).
It's also implied that the new generation of leaders (The MC) will try and change shit.
>My point is human solution is not feasible. and occam's razor points to no viable solution.
Why do you disregard this ?
Human solution is and already has been enforced albeit in different situations.
the cantus users' society is a utopia. it's a mistake to think of it as a perfect society; it's merely a society constructed and maintained according to a conscious design, and kept that way. utopias are static. they resist change fiercely and exert ideological control over their citizens. most cantus users are completely ignorant of their own history.
what appears to us as a dystopia resulted from the real dystopia of the cantus emperors. people speak of the instability of their utopia but this is far from the case. squealer's uprising was unprecedented. karmic demons etc. are a risk which is planned for, but can never be fully prevented. it's intrinsic to their powers and being. their utopia is built around, in its entirety, the prevention of such a demon and the preservation of the current society. despite it all it has endured, and by the end of the story continues to endure. it even wins over one the few capable of free thought. it has fulfilled its purpose
the rats are human in a genetic sense but little else; that is also by design and is reversible. the cantus users are human, in every sense, even if they are tyrannical. the only reason they are fully human is they are the dominant caste of the species.
both of those two last posts are mine
and yeah we are fucked but its not like we would just roll over and die and its still possible to win i mean for starters people started waking up to cantus abilities after it became public knowledge that cantus exists in reality that would be absolute top secret and the government would probably try to weaponize them first so thing would go differently
Because that is an example of totalitarian system with a thin-ice layer margin of error that is just not feasible.
Like others suggested in this thread, all it takes is one idiot, and the system is fucked, you have your magneto or your apocalypse. VEry similar to what happened in shinsekai yori, 2 horny teenagers = 1 fiend nearly destroyed the society if it wasn't the bravery of the biggest cuck queerat.
If the USA actually abused power they would have gone further than Jap occupation and restoration post WW2.
Frankly humanity in X-men universe could very ignore mutants and just spread over the universe. Or kill them all using genetically targeted virus like in the movie. Or do a lot of other shit. The only reason it doesn't happen is writers deliberately keeping the status quo.
also why did the humans let themselves be transformed into bakenezumi i mean for a certain period in time when the cantus niggers couldnt kill them they could have all coletivly risen up and killed every single one of them and restored civilization
That happened after most of humanity already died off. There were wars and other shit. By the time transformation was done humans no longer could present a unified front and the world was in ruins.
> using genetically targeted virus like in the movie
lol like in SSY, psycho killer or buster whatever it was.
yeah but its not like there were a lot of cantus users either even if its 1:1 the humans would have still won
this just look like a plot hole that wasnt explained though
Quality post.
well if the rats are human in a genetic sense and they were making a conscious effort at getting back human culture under squealer dosent that make them basically human
I might be misremembering, but didn't they develop the genetic modification to not kill other humans (Cantus uses) around the same time or after genetically modifying the rest of humanity into the rats?
>Killing you is a moral good, and not spending time hunting you down to kill you is a sin I have to ask forgiveness from God for committing. The only thing you are good for is fertilizer. Nazis aren’t human.
Karl Marx would be proud
But thats not the case. One evil doesnt destroy the system but a them multiplying does
the genetic modification to not kill other humans was first and then the "problem" arose that they were defenseless against non cantus users since they didnt have that genetic modification(also a plot hole could have just given them that modification also but better turn them all into monsters amiright) so they turned them into bakenezumi
>he goes against even bigger pieces of shit
He, the slave, stepped up to a man and got rightfully annihilated. You sound like a vegan animal rights advocate.
Your words are as empty as your Reich!
"basically" human is not fully human. that there is something to be regained denotes this. squealer's journey began when he realized those he venerated as gods were not gods. this encounter only occurred because the children were part of an experiment to test the society. there was a risk taken and it almost cost them everything. without that experiment there would have been no squealer.
>the genetic modification to not kill other humans was first and then the "problem" arose that they were defenseless against non cantus users since they didnt have that genetic modification(also a plot hole could have just given them that modification also but better turn them all into monsters amiright)
The modification works by compelling the user's own cantus to kill them, obviously non-cantus users would be unaffected by the modification.
wasnt it liver and kidney failure? oh well was some time since i watched it
>wasnt it liver and kidney failure?
I think it attacked multiple organs, but it was initiated by the cantus.
That's not the point. The problem is the very idea of setting up a global fascist system is unfeasible. If that the case then a new world order, illuminati power would be in absolute control today but it doesnt exist. So the human solution is establishing a new world order. Yea thats not gonna happen.
You dont need a global order to enforce birth control though. Cantus destroys society from within, not outside
Ah ok, you're right. Reading this line
>and then the "problem" arose that they were defenseless against non cantus users since they didnt have that genetic modification(also a plot hole could have just given them that modification
reminded me that I thought the exact same thing after watching the last episode.
I did a quick check on wiki, and it calls the 'death feedback' biologically based but subconsciously initiated by the person's Cantus. However, if society was advanced enough to mutate humans into rats, couldn't they have also found a method to initiate death feedback in non cantus humans?
>enforce birth control
we are now going in circles. There reasons why fetal genetic tests exists yet downies are still born, or birth control exists but women exist accidently get pregnant(negligence).
Governments can issue options for people to abort their babies or get genetic testsing etc. But once your enforcing certain rules which in this case is eugenics, then that requires a huge amount of compliance. Humans generally like their freedom, which is the biggest problem in this case.
all of human history is based on chances and chances are someone along the line would make a screw up like that sooner or later since humans arent perfect
also unless they somehow wiped their memories the colonies that werent exterminated are passing around the story of squealer the martyr along and sooner or later someone will rebel again
Is this that show were they had a gay kiss which made Yea Forums butthurt?
>queen
He freed his kind from tyranny.
>bunch of humies
He freed his kind from tyranny.
He deserves respect for trying his best against the odds.
It was a race war for survival and he was fighting for his kind, he was pretty much a hero to his people.
>They were two VERY horny teenagers without condons who only had each other. It was just a question of time.
That's hot.
I think the people in this thread posting about how the SSY world is doomed have the right idea. The funny thing about the show is that it seems to imply that to survive to adulthood depends on the acceptance of the fact that the continued existence of society is predicated on the performance of monstrous 'necessary evils' that trap life in stasis. For a while I thought it was just an elaborate setup for a reveal that the rest of the world had recovered and merely watched the antics of the psychic monkeys with amusement but they really went all in on that "next step in human evolution" plot and wiped out everyone else.
Simply put no, it's like asking
>couldn't they fire a bullet if they removed the firing pin?
Downies arent even close to cantus users, downies dont kill thousands when they go berserk. And again negligence doesnt matter since its usually a healthy, non cantus baby. Parents just need to be screened
>Humans generally like their freedom, which is the biggest problem in this case.
Yeah, 99% have their freedom. They just need to jumo through few hoops like giving spit samples etc
probably not but all of this dosent explain why the humans stood there and took it, i mean how was this enforced upon them if they couldnt hurt them?
Didn't the cantus users brainwash themselves after destroying human societies? At that point, the biggest threat are they themselves and others like them.
Are squealer apologists also vegans? Or is dominating lesser species only bad when you see it in an anime?
They probably kept the information regarding being unable to hurt them a secret and ruled based on the reputation of the ruthlessness previous Cantus rulers until they were able to implement the gene modification. A bit if a stretch I know.
>just need to jumo through few hoops like giving spit samples etc
thats not freedom, i know whta your gonna say, its such a simple task so just fucking do it so all dont die but government compliance does not equal freedom.
We have been conditioned to accept this kind of bullshit over generations especially through the government schooling system, taxing etc. but yep. thats not freedom.
So the idea of setting up a giant global fascist eugenic program would will also have to brainwash people to comply and would do you do about the peopel who dont?
> lesser species
funny you say considering we are the lesser species the series you speak of.
I guess we need to dismantle healthcare, education and such as its not freedom
You do you, live in a forest since you cant kill people
yeah thats what im saying its a plot hole that simply dosent fit in the story unless there is some huge stretch like people being so afraid they dont do anything
I'm guessing you're one of those vegans who put up "cows have rights just like us humans" posters. Not sure how else you could rationalize that beings with psychic abilities of mass destruction would be lesser to anything.
SSY is a legit masterpiece. I don't know why there is almost no anime adaptation from novels.
The Tatami Galaxy was also way better than many LN anime. Production companies should make more anime from novels with solid plots.
so if someone is more powerful he is instantly the superior species
i mean the cantus nigger literally have nothing they have no ambitions their societies are stagnant they could have gone and conquerd the stars or made technology that is impossible for us to perceive they have no dreams their society is a distopia if anything they are the lesser species that is a slave to their powers
> dismantle healthcare, education and such as its not freedom
youll have to take the voting rights of women away first before you can do that as they primarily vote security incentives and are majority voter base for a democratic system.
No fucking way they will they let you take their precious healthcare and government propanda machines away.
>psychic humans oppress normal humans
>make the new rat-human hybrids do the dirty work of killing
>he literally has to worship them and can never hope to be considered an equal as demonstrated by them laughing at him saying he's human
>expect that after all this he doesn't harbour any resentment to the psychics or ambition of liberty for his people
He is our enemy but he isn't evil - his acts were moral in his own regard. The queens were tyrannical.
I'm happy with how the show ended. To acknowledge the psychics supremacy but to work towards a more liberal society.
Squealer did nothing wrong.
Are you actually retarded? A lion is superior to a deer despite not being capable of space travel. Likewise, humans are at the top of the food chain in SSY and dominated/exploited the lesser rat race. If you have a problem with this then go to a naked vegan protest or whatever you niggers do these days.
>lesser rat race
its explicitly said they are humans that are made to look different
they are capable of intelligent thought other human characteristics, they were also on their way to restore human civilization under squealer
wtf are you talking about we are not the:
>beings with psychic abilities
we humans are the queerats in the series.
Typical Cantus Nigger Apologist projecting that they are something greater than what they are.
>formulate an arguement.
It's impossible to formulate an argument against an anti-communist because the anti-communist logic is constructed to a-priori invalidate anything that could prove communism right
Still inferior due to no ESP and the whole thing where they are a literal slave race.
Not really, humans with cantus are simply evolved or mutated humans who rose up above their peers, similar to how royalty in our world works. You'd only have a point if they were invading aliens who came to Earth and then turned every human into rats. I'm guessing you're a shitskin subhuman that can't identify with the evolved humans in SSY.
I think the death feedback was instilled into eachother as a deterrent. Basically it's kind of like a nuclear arms race only if you fire a nuke you die in the process, but you dont get rid of nuclear technology just because it can be a weapon.
>if you try to escape a system of pointless suffering you deserve to be tortured forever
okay jeff bezos
>A lion is superior to a deer
it really isn't, and to say that betrays how uneducated you are about evolutionary fitness
Oh yes and humans aren't superior to livestock, #vegan4life.
a great step for the better they really improved humanity
they are litterall niggers content with living in 19th century world that have a side effect of making the rest of the world complete shit
its like saying that the mongols were superior when the conquerd a shitton of land and killed millions and made those places shitholes for centuries
>Not really, humans with cantus are simply evolved or mutated humans who rose up above their peers
Yes but your not a fucking Cantus Nigger at the present are you or a lowly fucking human. So technically in the series the queerat is your equivalent now you fucking porch-warming nigger.
But they were superior for being able to conquer. I'm beginning to think you're ESL and don't even know what the word means.
seems they werent that advanced when the queer rats were able to do so many surprise attacks with out the messiah.
If SSY was real we'd all have a chance at obtaining cantus pre-apocalypse or being born as a cantus human post-apocalypse, in fact it would be most natural to identify as the latter seeing as how I am currently a human and not a rat. The fact that you immediately self insert as the queerats says a lot about you.
>The only side worse than them were scientist who created current world.
Where the actual fuck does this even come from?
The scientists were literally the only good people in this show.
Yes they fucked everything up but that wasn't their intention. In fact, considering how desperate the mess was, they even did a relatively remarkable job in limiting damages that would've otherwise wipe out the whole mankind
or its you equating superiority with being able to kill people
sounds like rat talk to me. Thinking you are equal to a cantus user.
Being superior to something doesn't mean you're invincible to it or whatever the hell you're implying. We cage/farm animals for our own benefit but that doesn't mean they can't hurt us or that nobody's ever gotten hurt in the process. I can't believe I actually have to explain this to you. Is it subhuman nigger power hour right now?
Fantastic that you use schema you found in the internet to justify and shut down the possibility to debate because of your lack of a fucking arguement to the topic.
Typical lefty tactic, dont engage in logic but avoid confrontation by subversion. Karl Marx is truly ingrained in your subconscious
Whether you like it or not, might is a pretty important thing to have in the world, dumb hippie. Nations compete not only with scientific advancements but also military might.
> all have a chance at obtaining cantus pre-apocalypse
>0.3% chance
>0.3
Statistics say you would more likely be a queerat in that universe, but no "MY MOM SAID I'M SPECIAL"
It's fiction. Why do fantasize about poor results in fiction? Do you also fantasize about a waifu who cheats on you? Again, says a lot about you.
yeah of course
but its not the same thing you fucking nigger
you are like a hood nigger that thinks he is superior because he has a gun and his neighbor dosent
i mean the cantus niggers are so violent they need to make it so they kill themselves if they think about harming others literally no self restraint just like a nigger
>Likewise, humans are at the top of the food chain in SSY and dominated/exploited the lesser rat race
If that were really true, then how is it that the lesser rat race managed to nearly eradicate the superior race? This isn't a matter of absolute superiority, where one faction is inherently superior than the other. The rats and humans are equals, just as humans and humans are in war, it is entirely a matter of who can adapt and grow better than the other. The cantus almost entirely stopped adapting, which is why the rats were almost able to overthrow their rule.
it does mean having superiority in one thing doesnt mean you are superior over everything. if anything you been doing nothing but discribing something that was invincible.
If the world only had hood niggers with guns and livestock then hood niggers would be the dominate species. Cantus users are by default superior to every other lifeform, regardless of how bleak their society is.
The only reason people side with the psykers is because they looked human, now if squaler and his kind were human. I bet all of you will root for him
>nearly
>almost
Did you even read what you wrote? So if you came 2nd in a race by 2 seconds, you would bitch and moan that it's unfair for the guy in 1st to get the winner's prize because you """nearly""" beat him?
The winner is superior, and this is even more stressed when it comes to life and death where the party that """"almost"""" wins receives death as their prize.
The cantus humans also had proper civilization, education etc. I don't think the queerats had any of that (unless you count living in caves/tunnels as civilization, but even that is inferior to modern housing), so the humans were superior in more than just might.
>The cantus humans also had proper civilization, education etc. I don't think the queerats had any of that (unless you count living in caves/tunnels as civilization, but even that is inferior to modern housing), so the humans were superior in more than just might.
did you forget the part where they built guns and had various version queenrats
> i'm more fascinated about your self-professed self-insertion to fiction and your obvious need of a power fantasy is projected in your insidious tone you portray in the comments you write about went you say THEIR superiority over lesser beings. OR should i be writing YOUR superiority?
Psychology would point that as an insecurity.
>The Tatami Galaxy was also way better than many LN anime.
Thanks user, I know what I'll be checking out today!
I agree with your first sentence as well.
He's no better or worse than the people he was fighting. Except for Saki, I guess.
Still he has no moral highground.
Pretty much this.
For the last time, I would naturally self insert as the cantus humans because I am a human, and not the rats because I am not a subhuman, stupid nigger.
The thing is, by the end of the series, it should be apparent that there is no absolute moral high ground and that all factions are justified in their positions if you look at it from their perspective. I mean, Saki pretty much embodies this. The espers weren't wrong for torturing squealer because many of them lost friends and family, and squealer wasn't wrong for initiating a bloody revolution, after finding out they were former humans that were deliberately engineered to be a slave race.
Guns represented their might, which is still worse than cantus. What's your point? They had no way of competing in any field which is why they had to use a cantus human weapon to try win, but even that display of intelligence/planning was countered by superior human strategy to defeat it. They were inferior in every single way, deal with it nigger.
He was a necessary evil.
there was no human strategy. That's why they got so fucked up. They relied on plot devise to win.
why are you seething so much rat boy?
>I would naturally self insert as the cantus humans because I am a human
this post truly highlights the mental gymnastics and total ignorance that prevents one from realizing their not the evolved version of what they presently are.
Your worst than a nigger, your a fucking jew
> but even that display of intelligence/planning was countered by superior human strategy to defeat it.
>strategy
You mean the desperate gamble that Saki came up with at the last minute?
>cantus users appear, their powers are weak as fuck
>a few of them use their powers for evil
>thus, people decide to genocide all of them, even the peaceful ones
>something like 99% of them are killed
>the powers of the rest of them evolve and normal humans get wrecked by living nuclear bombs
>modern society collapses, and things get even shittier because cantus is inherently unstable, especially if exposed to trauma, for example said genocide
>the scientist cantus faction says enough is enough, and modify their DNA to prevent them from killing humans
>but it works through cantus, so non-cantus human had to be modified into rats so they wouldn't register as human, since otherwise they would be able to genocide them (which they tried once before)
That's pretty much the timeline, in broad strokes. Honestly, the normal humans took the first shot, and they lost, hard. Whether what cantus users did to them is moral is debatable considering the shitty state of the world at the time, but it's what happens when you start a war and lose. Just look at human history.
>a few of them use their powers for evil
Yea, like mass rape and murder.
Non cantus humans "may" have initially overreacted in response, but to say that they took the first shot is incorrect.
Yes, and? Literally the same is true for all races right now. You wouldn't kill white or black people because a percentage of them commits serious crimes, at least as long as you aren't a /pol/tard or some radical leftist.
Cantus scientists fucked everything up. They created a deliberately stagnating society with no way out. There were alternatives (like hardcore transhumanism and body modification to make humans very hard to kill even with cantus), riskier and less stable but those that didn't trap everyone.
>Non cantus humans "may" have initially overreacted in response, but to say that they took the first shot is incorrect.
not logically sound, the humans could of witness and understood the destructive potential of cantus niggers so they could of taken preemptive measures.
Tbh cantus is some hardcore reality warping shit. Making humans resistant to that would require some comic book science, which doesn't seemt to exist in that universe. Like, even with cantus, the most the scientists seemed to be able to do was fucking with genetics, which they're still using in the series to change crops, plants, etc. Really, the problem is that cantus is based on the subconscious. It just takes one mentally deranged cantus user to fuck everyone over. They can create limits like the mantras, and attempt to kill those who show signs like that with the hunting cats, but the chance is always there.
Unironically you are right
I acknowledged that the non cantus humans overreacted in response, however from their perspective, they were trying to contain an unpredictable force that was outside of conventional control.
>brought order to their pathetic society
They had pathetic society because kamisu screwed them from being normal humans to begin with, fuck off.
Unironically, the situation could be compared to guns in America. Criminals with guns/cantus can do a lot more damage than those without, so should we ban/kill them all?
Honestly, the rats never had a chance. Cantus is too broken. Note that even though this is a theory, cantus was proven to exist/spread in the first place through experiments with quantum mechanics, so it's implied to be true.
Jesus, there seems to be alot of leftists in Yea Forums. Is anime a major past-time activity for faggots?
nice digits
>so they could of taken preemptive measures.
Such as? Don't forget, their sudden 'awakening' caused a global panic which was only exasperated by the violence a good portion of them caused. Trying to wipe them out may have been a poor choice, but it's not unreasonable to think that governments would react that way irl, if they had no measurements of containment other than voluntary imprisonment.
I thought anime was associated with the right these days?
>Is anime a major past-time activity for faggots?
You're asking this question like you don't know it to be true, faggot.
>tfw the prequel is available literally nowhere
What the fuck are the japs doing? The translator of the novel even said he'd translate it if he got a scan. It's apparently about the first cantus user and how the world got to the point where it is in the anime, so it'd actually answer some of the questions in these discussions.
>Such as?
Don't really want to speculate, but the existence of an existential threat is a means toward action.
>since otherwise they would be able to genocide them
And also so the feedback wouldn't affect the cantus users because their outward appears is still human and can trigger it. Turning humans into rats means you can slaughter them without triggering the feedback.
>Unironically, the situation could be compared to guns in America.
Not really, since the 2nd amendment guarantees the rights of gun ownership for citizens, drastically leveling the playing field, so it would be like if there was a method for everyone to awaken their cantus potential (with varying powerlevels) then there would be no need to ban/kill.
Imo your gun analogy would be more applicable to a country like Mexico, where gun laws are tighter for the regular citizen, which lends itself to criminal syndicates ruling the country.
Basically, the non-cantus humans (regular citizens) were trying to stomp out a potential threat before they became under the thumb of a global "cartel" (cantus users with violent tendencies with no real way to fight them).
Yeah, that's what I meant. Without that, the humans could kill them without being able to fight back.
Eh, you know what I meant. I guess nukes could also be a metaphor. Countires without nukes got no way to fight back vs those who have them.
One of the few shows that still generate discussion and heated debate without smug anime girl picture
Cantus fucking shits are abominations and deserve to perish.
Gay kisses cures cancer
well, 99% of it anyway
It was justified.
>Countires without nukes got no way to fight back vs those who have them.
Yea, but if the countries with nukes could've used them without fear of significant retaliation (whether it be directly or by proxy) they'd use them more often. The reason why the cold war didn't go nuclear is because of m.a.d. So to that analogy I'd say that if the non-cantus humans had found out a way for 'regular' humans to awaken their cantus potential, they'd have some leverage and would've been less likely to go the genocide route.
Everything here makes sense but you omitted the part where non-cantus non-humans are forced to be a slave race. That's just plain evil.
I actually happened to binge the series for the first time a few months ago, and this is the first thread on this I've seen in a while that I can participate in. It's been a treat.
>Nazis aren’t human.
That's right. And, as well all know, if you think it's "okay to be white" you're a Nazi.
>you use schema you found in the internet
Except I literally just made it, moron.
But thanks anyway for offering more material to add to it
>Typical lefty tactic, dont engage in logic but avoid confrontation by subversion.
I love the irony contained in this single sentence.
Please keep going
if your male and you haven't cut off your balls already because its the current year. Then you truly are a sexist pig and a nazi.
How would Tyrone feel when you accidentally impregnate your wife. You won't get your nintendo switch you rascal!
>Honestly, the rats never had a chance
Better to die trying to be human that to live like a rat under fascists
Commies need to be shot because just like jews they are a detriment to culture and society.
All I can say, having lived under communism is that it makes everyone paranoid as shit because everyone is stealing and tweaking the reports to get by.
I'm happy that I can live in a regular shit hole now instead of a communist shit hole.
>Except I literally just made it
So you wasted your time creating a tu quoque fallacy picture instead of formulating an argument. MY MY rabbi you are a sharp one.
>in the new reply picture states "Someone tries to reply with actual arguements"
only problem is you didn't... i'm still waiting comrade....
>I love the irony contained in this single sentence.
Ignorance of the truth is also ironic
This so fucking much.
>Seeing all the "humans" cheering on that kind of torture made me see how inhuman they ar
uhh Squealer tried to genocide them you know
But they're not aliens so your point is moot
>nintendo switch
lol wat
I guess I’m behind on my reddit memes
They turned normal humans into rat slaves, they're the worst you can get honestly. The Psi society though of them as trash and lesser than them in every way, and in the end he ends up losing dooming these people that are basically human. It's like the bad ending in odd world or something. Plus psychic powers are just bad for the world in general and made it heavily unlivable, they're an actual hazard to society and destroyed humanities good path. Theres really no good ending for psi world either.
>They turned normal humans into rat slaves, they're the worst you can get honestly
Humans have started and lost a war of extermination against them, but I guess cantus users are niggers because they didn't roll over and die.
>but I guess cantus users are niggers because they didn't roll over and die
when will you cantus nigger apologist get it into your thick heads that they would turn you into a queerat without hesitation. but muh evolution means
>im a cantus nigger too!
your a human therefore in that timeline your equivolent to a queerat.
>regardless that im a queerat, they shouldn't just roll over and die because muh sovereignty.
Spoken like a true apologist cuck now go back to picking that cotton, nigger!
Cantus users were completely justified in their actions.
If all the Cantus users would of been killed the mutants would of came there anyway, it was them keeping the mutants away. So he might as well have went out and delt with them rather than fight a war then still have to deal with them years down the line after his esper became old and busted.
so did Squealer
Yes but he lost and he's ugly.
No one itt is advocating Marxism
is just a tard that doesn't know what it is and just uses it as a meme buzzword for things he doesn't like.
I don't like Squealer. However I'd be more brutal towards "humans" if I were in his position and much nicer towards queerats if I was a "human".
One can have sympathy towards others without liking or agreeing with them.
if lefties could meme, that would be plenty for me.
>Result of cantus people winning: society regresses to stone age
This only happened as a response to humanity deciding to use some ol' fashioned genocide on the entire population who had awakened to Cantus and went to actual war against them, though. Cantus users were not eliminating the population and did not even have the actual power to do so at first, ironically enough their powers only grew to world-ending magnitude due to the literal threat of extinction they were placed under by non-PK humans. There were criminals among Cantus users, but they only turned into walking nukes after being forced into armed conflict with the rest of humanity. Regular humans started and then lost the actual war, as a response to PK criminals/terrorists.
oh jew
i bet your the lefty that posted this:my point was that kamisu 66th ditrict is a totalitarian dystopia that only commies would think to be a utopia because reasons???
maybe its the fact that a giant government exist to give the false impression of security from ever encroaching boogeyman such as fiends is a means to an end to justify slaughter of your own kind. disregarding the conception that the system and total governmetn power itself is the problem.
youtube.com
Cantus users should have just genocided humans instead of genetically raping them and then keeping them around to suffer. The rats had every right to fuck their shit up for that alone.
Actually this is used by everyone. It's "real socialism/capitalism" when the thing you're supporting does good and not when it does bad.
God it feels good to have the fence firmly wedged up my ass.
>i bet your the lefty that posted this
Nope, and that isn't an argument for Marxism or Communism.
It just points out your shitty way of thinking about topics you are completely ignorant of.
At least have the decency to read the Wikipedia page on what Marxist theory actually entails before going off on a rant about it.
Nothing in your posts has anything to do with either Marxist theory or the beliefs of the man
himself.
You just reduce it to Marxism = Bad, thing I don't like = bad, therefore thing I don't like = Marxism.
This
I understand where you're coming from in regards to how he treated humans. He entered into a wartime state of mind: it was rats vs cantus users for him, and thus he resolved himself to commit any atrocity against them, innocent or not, for the future of his race. Fuck off with your "betrayed his kind" shit though, those queens were freaks engineered to keep the rats in check and were stifling evolution and technological advancement. They were essentially psychotic monarchs a la medieval Europe who solely pursued their own agendas regardless of how many of their subordinates expressed dissenting opinion. Squealer SAVED his kind by introducing democracy.
im only justifying my argument based of the real world results of what happens when a government utilises marxist ideology to rationalise policy.
>But that wasn't REAL marxism
incoming
>Marxism = bad
smartest thing you've said all day regardless of your irony. What you faggots don't realise is teh human element that prevents realisation of the so called true end-game of communism.
But human practicality doesn't compute in your little ideological heads now does it.
Only a fucking soulless robot with no free-will can make anarcho-communism work.
> But muh MORAL ARGUEMENT
tell that to the ukranians of holodomor, the venezelean pigeon/rat hunters in their cities, 10 millions of chinese during maoism, 10 of millions of soviets during the USSR
Actually they should've implemented death feedback into everybody since the reason they made ratmen was so that they could fight back against "normal" humans who would with absolute certainty kill every single Cantus user once death feedback was implemented otherwise. I don't remember if it was explained why they didn't do this. I think death feedback involved the use of actual Cantus or something like that, so it might have been impossible.
But it's not real communism. There wasn't a classless utopia of common ownership.
I'm sorry mate but facts don't care about your feelings. Your opinions of pseudo-Marxists have clouded your judgement.
> So he might as well have went out and delt with them rather than fight a war then still have to deal with them years down the line after his esper became old and busted.
Did you forget that he had babies kidnapped to raise his own esper army?
Did you even look at the Wikipedia article like I told you to?
Because the deep irony behind your earlier posts defending squeeler is that his desire to empacipate his people (the working class) is textbook Marxism.
Marxist theory stands literally in polar opposition to the social order in SSY.
No communist would ever want or respect the social order of SSY.
And no matter how much you cry about it, the failures of the states you listed had nothing to do with inherent flaws in Marxist theory.
It was 100% down to poor leadership and resource management.
Democracy and fascism are ideologies just as capable as an heroing as communism is.
Always thought Sqieler looked at his most human in the 9th panel.
If you remove his fangs, ears, give him white eyeballs, he looks like a normal, albeit ugly, old human.
>hat they would turn you into a queerat without hesitation.
>muh current population is the same as the original who did bad stuff
Noone turns normal humans to queerats virtually noone even knows that they are based on humans, the original scientists did it back when normal humans were genocidal maniacs and cantus users had no way to defend themselves due to their conditioning.
>Spoken like a true apologist cuck now go back to picking that cotton, nigger!
>being this retarded
A normal human would not equal a queerat not even remotely, that's why they kill children who are unable to use cantus, because without cantus the defense against the inherent violence of humanity doesn't work and you could walk around and kill everyone without anyone being able to stop you.
> I think death feedback involved the use of actual Cantus
I had to double check earlier; it does.
>implying cantus users wouldn't be a major force for the inquisition due to their inability to fight humans.
A force of extremely strong psykers without the cons of being a psyker, that shit would make for a nice army.
And the reason psykers are treated the way they are is because they are a potential demon host/hole into the warp without proper training.
There are parallels with world politics in the age of nuclear weapons. The idea of punishment for bad acts done just doesn't work when the bad act causes human extinction. Preventions are the only sane option, and a lot of them are not exactly moral.
The irony of those anons who defend the cantus users for turning the other humans into rats, because the non-esper humans tried to get rid of them before they became a big problem, is that hundreds of years later, the espers are the ones who dispassionately cull their own before they become problems.
The irony is that humans wouldn't be turned into rats if they didn't try to exterminate cantus users because they wouldn't be powerful enough to fuck the humans up then
lol as I predicted you would reply with.
>classless utopia of common ownership
the wording in that statement itself suggest ignorance of basic human psychology.
>classless
you can't just eradicate hierarchies because somehow you justify the ideas of natural order to be relative within human psyche.
> defending squeeler is that his desire to empacipate his people (the working class) is textbook Marxism
fucking hell... leftys are just full of fallacies... Yes its also extremely easy justify parts of striving for the working class rhetoric, textbook cherry picking when it suits your narrative, jsut don't go looking into our gulag comrade or famines comrade. The working class are OUR PEOPLE
>Marxist theory stands literally in polar opposition to the social order in SSY.
again the "its not REAL communism argument" i've already addressed this argument
>No communist would ever want or respect the social order of SSY
you honesty believed the USSR cared that the communist respect their order?
>failures of the states you listed had nothing to do with inherent flaws in Marxist theory
No, but the flaws of Marxist theory applied to human society, keyword HUMAN. is what im referring to.
>100% down to poor leadership and resource management
yes hence the reason Marxist abandoned the financial application of Marxist theory but now they are making their mark on culture hence rise of Feminism Victim hood culture
>Democracy and fascism are ideologies just as capable as an heroing as communism
wrong, true communism will never exist within a human context. it always leads to a totalitarian regime so no thats impossible. hence you don't respect the human element within the implication.
>just keeping them as humans and introducing the death feedback alterations as well
That's not possible because the death feedback requires cantus to work, the Scientists had no way of fixing normal humans.
I bet you would've pardoned Hitler and Stalin if they were ever captured.
who let you out of /pol/ or r/goldandblack? your love for fascism, disdain for actual democracy and support for the cantus society makes it too obvious. squealer was fighting for the oppressed people and would have spread liberation around the world if it wasn't for a bootlicker deciding slavery was better than freedom.
>basic human psychology
classic high school education response. keep those memes up.
the most important aspect and the ultimate truth this anime offer to us was the fact that homosexuality ruin everything and should be cured to restore society decline.
And as I predicted you would reply with non-arguments. None of your rambling refutes the scientific fact that real communism hasn't been implemented.
Exactly, meaning they should have just cut out the bullshit and killed off any threat.
They wouldn't have had to try extermination if it weren't for people like in pic related.
But that's not even my point. You criticize the non esper humans for doing what they did, when cantus humans ended up doing the exact same thing albeit more efficiently, for the same reasons.
>muh evil feminists
lol
>communism cannot exist in a human context
Why not?
Does democracy need 100% of people on board in order to function?
Does fascism?
Of course they don't.
Just as you malign the Marxist for disregarding human greed, he would say you are disregarding human empathy.
Humans are self interested but they are also communitarian by nature.
We are social creatures and it is in our nature to work together.
Too bad you're a 15 year old edge lord and can't see that.
If people really are unable to cooperate due to self interest then how do you explain your parents raising you, is that not an act of pure altruistic love?
>y they kill children who are unable to use cantus, because without cantus the defense against the inherent violence of humanity doesn't work
wasn't why they killed them, its because they weren't a fit to their society.
There were multiple reasons, being only badly able to control cantus, being unfit for society, being unable to use it at all, pretty much everything out of the norm that could potentially lead to the failure of the build in defenses.
>They wouldn't have had to try extermination if it weren't for people like in pic related.
So why aren't States exterminating the 13% of their population that commits 50% of violent crimes?
Here's what I mean. Just needs a human ear and maybe nose added, and you get a handsome Squealer lad.
Because it would lead to the collapse of the Government due to the inability of the general population to consider the facts, and the out of it following necessities.
>the exact same thing
They are preserving themselves, not wiping themselves out.
Because that 13% does the 50% of crimes to themselves, since crime is largely localized.
I applaud that you came up with an actual argument instead of these faggots:
Thats very rare thank you. Fuck.. finally
Yes that is the moral arguement. human empathy and altruistic love should NEVER be implemented in government policy why you may ask?
The achetype of the Devouring Mother. look it up and give yourself your own opinion.
People subjected to the welfare of an all accompanying body will surrender ALL forms of agency of their individualism, and security will come that the cost of their freedom.
The society will regressed into a matriarchy. The weak will flourish, ambition or risk will be frowned upon. The reason to live is justified only by the excuse to exist.
Sad thing is it will only exist whilest their are resources that aren't infinite and is DOOMED to collapse.
>Jung
Whoooo boy, sorry M8, I'm out.
Go read 12 rules for life again if it makes you feel better about yourself but Jung, Petersson and all their ideas are quack.
Take your tiny nugget of truth and run with it all you like I'm not playing that game.
Because the U.S has prisons and armed forces that can easily keep things under control. Bad analogy.
>Preserving themselves
Which is what the non esper humans were trying to do, since they had no other avenues of control.
Hurting things should be used as a form of punishment to prevent people from doing the same actions again. If you're going to kill someone in the end causing them pain is nothing other than sadism and is objectively immoral.
>government policy
communists don't care about government policy, they want to get rid of the state not reform it
get your peterson memes out of here, child. you have to be 18 or older to post.
Eh, they responded to the existence of criminals and terrorists with genocide against the innocent, which ultimately bit them in the ass very hard. I'd say that going to war against every single telekinetic was an extremely unwise decision unto itself because it antagonized every last one of them by robbing them of any other choice.
why do these thread always devolve into politics nowdays
go have sex
The only reason you fuckers even feel sympathy is because of weird shit like music and imagery. If a subhuman piece of filth went around genociding your people and killing your friends for "muh independence" when they clearly don't even have the capacity to form a functioning society, they deserve death.
>Jung, Petersson and all their ideas are quack
I can say the same thing about Marx
>i bet your the lefty that posted this: (You)
No, I'm the one who made it.
And Good Lord! Literally every single one of your subsequent posts looked like they were made to prove me 100% right!
I could literally screen-cap the whole conversation and put it next to it to show how perfectly spot on that pic is!
>Only a fucking soulless robot with no free-will can make anarcho-communism work.
Funny, coming from someone who looks incapable of formulating anything different than the same 3 - 4 buzzwords and catchphrases the anti-communist propaganda implanted into your tiny brain:
>"HURR DURR MUH COMMIES MUH LEFTIES MU CULTURAL MARXISM"
>"HURR DURR NOT MUH REAL COMMUNISM AMIRITE???"
>"HURR DURR MUH GULAGS MUH HOLOMODOR MUH 9258742587 TRILLIONS"
Please keep going!
>All these faggots supporting cantus users
This thread is filled with house niggers who'd sell you out to get head pats from master
I agree that it was ultimately unwise of them to go down that path, but in their minds the alternative would be to cede power and they panicked. Also, the idea of them getting exponentially stronger was more than likely unexpected. Ultimately, esper society adopted the same mindset of nipping potential problems in the bud, irrespective of personal feelings, but were more precise in their methodology.
You could, but that's like him saying Ayn Rand is a quack and you responding that Adam Smith is too. You'd be retarded to do so since Marx and Smith aren't even in the same league as those jokes.
>Literally every single one of your subsequent posts looked like they were made to prove me 100% right!
yet still no counter-arguement from you just respond with the usual slander and fallacy.
Like i said before, still waiting comrade.
>when they clearly don't even have the capacity to form a functioning society
In the time-skip, the Robber Fly colony had surpassed the human village technologically. They had concrete houses, electricity, guns, were able to perform lobotomy (on both their own species and other races if we believe they lobotomised Maria, although it shouldn't have been too hard since their brains are almost identical), and any were able to speak multiple languages.
In about two years, they went from a tribal like society to what us humans were like in the 19th century. And that's despite having been genetically engineered to be reliant on a giant, despotic Queen. That's despite the humans threatening to wipe them out if they ever felt threatened or insulted by them.
exactly, they're no better than this traitor who sold his people back into slavery
Jungian psychology as a science cannot be empirically demonstrated you mong.
That's why he and Freud are largely disregarded in mainstream psychology.
People that unironically cite Jung are either hack novelists or quacks.
Say what you like about Marx I'm not interested i converting you to an ideology I myself do not value.
Just for the love of God man, research what these terms mean and don't get your political information from youtube/twitter.
When you use terms and ideas you obviously have no understanding of it just makes you look retarded.
I'm out.
It’s because we got both sides of the story from an outsider’s perspective. Most of the music and imagery surrounding squealer were dark and foreboding anyway so I don’t see your point.
the character who ruined it for everybody
To add to this, their society was much more 'functioning' than the human village, despite the threat of genocide hanging over them at all times.
The human village had stagnated, with a static population, and constantly polluted surrounding lifeforms. They are forced to live under strict surveillance, since it only takes one karma demon to destroy their fragile society.
The Robber Fly colony was thriving. Their population rose from a couple of thousand to more than 200,000 in two years, and they had democratic elections with a National Diet.
>lol as I predicted you would reply with.
>again the "its not REAL communism argument" i've already addressed this argument
I'm sorry but you didn't address jack shit.
Just because you predicted an argument doesn't mean you disproved it.
First time I see a thread with so many posts actually discussing the show and yet somehow completely miss the point.
SSY fucked itself right at the end by spoonfeeding to the viewers that the queerats were humans.
Fuck off. Kiroumaru was the only decent character in this goddamn show.
And unlike Squealer he actually managed to save his people.
>SSY fucked itself right at the end by spoonfeeding to the viewers that the queerats were humans
How?
>Also, the idea of them getting exponentially stronger was more than likely unexpected.
This is perhaps what makes their reaction even more unacceptable. They didn't think they were stopping human WMDs from ruling the world, they went to war against innocent people who mostly had very low-tier abilities at the time, so their attempted genocide is in no way justifiable. They didn't try it while thinking they'd save humanity because Cantus was much too weak at the time to be any threat to the race itself, they simply did it to make sure those who were in power remained in power.
>And unlike Squealer he actually managed to save his people.
Fuck off. Literally the only reason Squealer didn't manage to save his entire species was because of Kiroumaru.
Kiroumaru betrayed his entire species on the vague promise that his Masters would at least spare one person from his tribe, the Queen. And even then, we have no idea if the Council listened to Saki's request and his tribe was actually saved. We never see another member of his tribe during the end.
>Fuck off. Kiroumaru was the only decent character in this goddamn show.
He betrayed all Queerats by killing the one thing that could have gotten them from underneath the Cantus's feet.
>And unlike Squealer he actually managed to save his people.
He sold them back into subordination beneath the Cantus and the queen rats for untold generations to come. For what, "honor"? "loyalty"?
You're a fucking shill, get lost.
I mean, that was because they captured a false minoshiro. Of course their technology level would rise that fast, any retard could do it with a manual like that. And the humans still have the capability to build up to that, and much more, but they don't because most of the can just be emulated with cantus.
>muh honor and loyalty
Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer
Kiroumara literally didn't have any good options. On the one side were the cantus users he tried to defeat before, and failed, and on the other side Squealer, who would kill his Queen and basically his reason for being. If he helped the cantus users, he would have a chance to save his queen. But if Squealer won, she would be dead/lobotomized no matter what. If you want to blame anyone, blame Squealer for not understanding Kirioumaru's motivations. If he weren't so autistic about the queens, he would have easily won him over.
>they don't because most of the can just be emulated with cantus
They don't because small and simple towns are easier to control. They had to keep every single human under tight surveillance because one person going off the rails could literally doom all of mankind.
>Marx and Smith aren't even in the same league as those jokes
I thought hierarchies are relative? and yet we are categorizing by a subjective value now. Interesting....
>Jungian psychology as a science cannot be empirically demonstrated
No shit. Because its subconscious, but the patterns do manifest in culture coincidentally
Yeah, and that too. But that user was talking about how advanced their society was, which it still is. I mean, they genetically engineer crops and animals, and Saki's boyfriend at the had a job of working with atomic lenses or some shit like that.
The queens were probably the most important obstacle to rat advancement though. They were tyrannical rulers that could kill off the entire colony because they were basically bipolar schizos. They held the entire lifeblood of the colony hostage. If the rats wanted to progress, they needed to get rid of those that held it back.
I fucking swear these "obviously bad villains" did nothing wrong memes are the cancer plaguing Yea Forums. Squealer apologists are fucking retarded, so is SSY for emotionally manipulating its viewers by being biased towards a side instead of presenting both in equal matters.
Even Shiki did it better.
Yet they lost the ability to make cement.
Sure, they have the leftovers of old society. But they can't make any progress anymore. They are stuck with what they have, and actually regress since their social policies encourage the suppression of knowledge.
Bootlicker.
>Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer
>the one thing that could have gotten them from underneath the Cantus's feet.
That would never have happened, the village wasn't the single one in existence if I'm not mistaken. He would've had no tactical options once multiple other villages decided to exterminate them because he had a single effective weapon and that weapon can only be deployed in one place at a time. The only reason he even stood a chance was the element of surprise which made his enemies unaware. In an actual war it would suffice for a single Cantus user to attack his colony while his weapon was somewhere else and he would lose his entire faction.
The only future they had would've been to remain on the defensive forever with his 'Fiend', because the moment the Fiend leaves on a mission somewhere else Cantus users can nuke his home out of existence. Then he'd be fucked when she eventually died and even more fucked if that broken and abused child became a karmic demon.
>any retard could do it with a manual like that
No other animal apart from humans have the capability to do this. Even before they were thought to have fund the False Minoshiro, they were advanced enough to understand metalworking since Squealer had access to metal armor.
In fact, even some human tribes in our real world are currently living in societies less advanced than the Robber Fly colony ended up with, despite access to manuals and charity.
His good option was to lbotomise his Queen and save his species from slavery. That sounds harsh for the Queen, but remember that in the end he chose the option where the humans killed over 200,000 of his tribal brothers. Is his Mothers life worth protecting for over 200,000 of his tribesmen?
>who would kill his Queen and basically his reason for being
Squealer didn't kill any of the queens, they were still alive and still producing more offspring. Kiroumaru was a loyal slave who wanted to be back under the yoke of the old system.
>No shit. Because its subconscious, but the patterns do manifest in culture coincidentally
Pattern recognition is not a valid way to form policy positions or scientific theories retard.
Humans see horses in clouds, are there horses in the sky?
No of course not.
Go listed to your surrogate daddy figure on YouTube again if you want but don't pretend to know what you are talking about.
Because it was endearing to know Squealer truly believed himself to be human, instead of actually knowing it was the case. This last episode 5-minute before the idea spoonfeed just felt like a way to draw sympathy, which resulted in the amount of Squealer's cocksuckers you see in this thread.
Squealer is the only one who betrayed his species.
And yes, Kiroumaru's colony got special treatment thanks to him. He succeeded at something, Squealer didn't.
It's not about honor or loyalty. It's about which of the two is a failure. And we all know the answer that.
>I thought hierarchies are relative?
I see you don't know what the fuck you are even talking about. Please try to finish your primary education before posting, even if it's just above failing grade.
>30 images
>147 posters
Impressive.
Boku no pico
>kill off
I mean, I guess by deciding to not reproduce? They're just fat worms stuck underground. They've got the false minoshira, they could've just waited until they had the tech for artificial wombs.
More like, the general populace thinks that. There 100% are records of how to make something as basic as cement in one of these secret libraries they got. They still have detailed knowledge of advanced weaponry. As for progress, it's kind of natural that they want stagnation. They're trying their best to live peacefully and not get wiped out by a rogue cantus user. They're still making progress, the amount of scientists they got proves that, but the focus is on survival. The last time they got a karma demon, the only reason they won was simply luck.
Retard by a human standard I mean.
>His good option was to lbotomise his Queen and save his species from slavery. That sounds harsh for the Queen, but remember that in the end he chose the option where the humans killed over 200,000 of his tribal brothers. Is his Mothers life worth protecting for over 200,000 of his tribesmen?
He did save his species. Not like how Squealer wanted it, but his tribe of Queerats did survive.
Please. It's death in any way that counts. He didn't want his queen to become braindead.
Also,
>loyal
Did you miss the part where he ventured into the areas past the village to find weapons to defeat the cantus users with? He did try.
>The queens were probably the most important obstacle to rat advancement though. They were tyrannical rulers that could kill off the entire colony because they were basically bipolar schizos. They held the entire lifeblood of the colony hostage. If the rats wanted to progress, they needed to get rid of those that held it back.
I can see the point of user you're replying to AND yours. I think it's a 70% fair criticism that Squealer should have engaged in a bit more real politik. Yes, the queens were another biological control shackle put on original humanity, and med/long term they had to go naturally as part of biology being restored towards decentralization and humans just having sex and normal births again. HOWEVER, Kiroumaru was also a critical potential military asset. And he, specifically, had very strong motivations around his specific queen. Sometimes in actual war it's necessary to make unpleasant and biased bargains and compromises for overall victory, maybe flat out just bribing and subverting those on the other side, or allowing them to indulge some vice or rule over some portion or whatever. Squealer could have tried for a deal where Kiroumaru's queen alone was spared and allowed to continue a single normal biological life, albeit with no further generations allowed.
The reason I say it's only 70% fair criticism though is that Squealer was trying to bootstrap from scratch on a host of subjects. Even with access to the library (and we don't know how complete that was) it can't be taken for granted that he'd somehow immediately internalize millennia of real human geopolitical conflict and war. There just wasn't time and he was starting from too low a knowledge base and education. I think some of this is obvious anyway though if you game theory it out, but he can't be 100% blamed for falling another way.
>The only future they had would've been to remain on the defensive forever with his 'Fiend'
If he had succeeded he would have had several more Fiends in his possession since he took the children from the care center, so your scenario is not realistic.
The only reason Squealer failed was because of Kiroumaru betraying his species though. It's like saying that a Jewish collaborator selling the locations of his people to his Nazi masters would be a more decent person than a resistance fighter, because at least he'd survive in the end.
>success
Keeping the status quo is success? An agreement that the humans would almost certainly disregard once Saki dies or is out of power is success? That's funny user.
Seconding this. Basically any quisling action fits too.
>They're still making progress
Not by our standards. Everything we see shows things going in reverse, not progressing. They actually had more advanced tech usage and schooling still, but then after the karma demon they went backwards to reduce tech usage, so that everyone would be forced to rely on Cantus more exclusively which would help keep them out of trouble and identify those who didn't fit in. They get more extreme about killing off anyone who doesn't have sufficient PK -or- insufficient control, the population has further dropped. And meanwhile they've "solved" the PK environmental corruption problem by just dumping all the mental waste out into the rest of the world. Can that go on indefinitely? Is there any hope of them someday getting off the world? They're locking themselves down into extreme crystallization of society as the only means of survival.
Really, talking about Queerats as a single species as if they all should work together is obviously not the actual case. The different tribes warred all the time, and they all had different motivations. Why should Kiroumaru care about Squealer's tribe? He wants to save his own.
>He didn't want his queen to become braindead.
She's either braindead or a tyrant, which do you prefer? He wanted the tyrant.
>He did try.
He tried, he failed, and unlike Squealer, he became a bootlicker. He sold out his people.
Were all queens insane though?
>his tribe of Queerats did survive
For how long though. You really think the humans really give a shit? Once Saki is dead there's no one that would care about the agreement. And unlike before, there will be know squealer to fight back.
>The different tribes warred all the time, and they all had different motivations
Because they were put in that situation by the ruling Cantus society. Kiroumaru was stuck thinking in a tribal mindset, while Squealer was thinking on a greater scale beyond artificial tribal or racial lines.
No, it's your scenario which is not realistic, because growing and mind-breaking a Fiend takes years while other Cantus villages had the ability to deal civilization-ending damage to him in the very short term because his Fiend could not have defended everything against attacks coming from multiple directions. The Fiend was just a little girl, her range must've been what, maybe several hundred meters around her? That is in no way enough to protect them against large numbers of Cantus users who are acting with knowledge of the situation and attempting to exterminate him and his colony.
>If he had succeeded he would have had several more Fiends in his possession since he took the children from the care center, so your scenario is not realistic.
Furthermore, "weapon" is missing the REAL value of controlled PKs: that through them they could eventually reverse the gene manipulation and regain human form. Once that happened the death feedback in all PKs would have meant they'd win, or at least could reach a stalemate/truce: carve out human lands the PKs wouldn't attack, leave many of the PK lands alone too in case they ever proved useful. The modern PK society might not even be a threat so long as humans became humans again.
Squealer didn't have to beat the world as rats, just make enough progress to bootstrap again.
>Once Saki is dead there's no one that would care about the agreement.
And whose fault is that? If squealer hadn't fucked everything up there would be no such danger.
>inb4 muh tyranny
Nothing keeps the queerats from leaving as the spider dicks at the start of the story showed.
Again, it is progress by their standards. They are progressing in how to deal with their cantus. And at the end, Saki does mention how a war like that was probably needed for people to change their ways. And although she is seen breeding more cats, since all those traumatised people are a danger, she's planning to go in a different direction once everything settles. Considering she's also immortal, what with the telomere extension, the future does look a lot brighter for them. And about getting off the planet: cantus is basically quantum fuckery. Once they solve the problems they got with it, and focus on deepening their understanding of it, they'll get off planet and anywhere else in the universe. It's basically the next step in evolution.
It's either bootlick the humans or bootlick overlord Squealer. He thought the former was more beneficial, that doesn't make him a traitor.
See above. Saki is literally immortal, and sans Karma Demons, there is no threat to her.
Yes, Squealer thought big, but too big. Had he focused more on uniting the tribes, he could have won. As it is, he was more focused on his view of how the Queerats should live, and his plan suffered because of it.
Perhaps they shouldn't have talked the talk if they couldn't walk the walk
But what actually is their knowledge of the situation anyway? Sure there is some inter-village communication, but it's not like modern times with the internet and surveillance drones/satellites and shit either that's the whole point. Sure other villages would eventually notice the loss, but they might well chock it up to something else, or fail to realize the seriousness, or just like the villagers themselves be ultra arrogant about their powers and get destroyed piecemeal. The society of PKs at their time is highly fragmented, it's not a modern nationstate.
For that matter would there even be a need for Squealer to remain in Japan? Looks like he already had the tech to make sailing ships at least, which would be enough to make for another continent entirely. The library could offer a world map and perhaps positioning, or if not knowledge on star navigation.
>Pattern recognition is not a valid way to form policy positions or scientific theories retard
Never said they were.
I agreed with what you said before that you cannot empirically demonstrate some Jungian theories because they are subconscious. Good luck trying.
But you cannot deny the existence of achetypes which manifest itself in reality.
Sub-textual comprehension is really not something you developed in your shitty government school program you half-brain.
OR maybe its you who doesn't understand Neo-Marxist Theory. Next time takes your professor's cock out of your mouth during your Critical Theory Class and listen might learn a thing or two instead of your typical jizz-guzzling and Cult Leader Worshiping.
Really SSY is an exercise in the efficacy of the halo effect
Like user said, if you switched the appearances of the rats and cantusniggers this wouldn't even be a debate.
But make cantusniggers pretty then humans ugly and suddenly people are second guessing if demonic hegemony is really all that bad.
>Neo-Marxist Theory
Keep those memes coming, lobsterboi. They're delicious.
>Their population rose from a couple of thousand to more than 200,000 in two years
Well, they secured the means of rat production.
This was also literally spelled out at the end of the novel. Even though Saki knew that the Queerats were once human, because they were so ugly, she couldn't actually think of them as human, and that's why death feedback didn't kill her.
And I love it for that, unironically makes you think a bit.
Why the fuck should I take Jung's archetypes seriously over my own perceived archetypes?
He just poses the answer to a question that was never asked and does not justify it anyway.
>you cannot deny
Yes I can faggot, and I do.
Prove your theory or fuck off.
>It's either bootlick the humans or bootlick overlord Squealer.
>It's either bootlick the slave masters or bootlick freedom from slavery.
You're not making any sense here. Kiroumaru chose slavery over freedom, how does that not make him a traitor?
>Yes, Squealer thought big, but too big. Had he focused more on uniting the tribes, he could have won.
He did do that, just one rat decided to ruin everything.
Honestly, to steer a bit away from the morality debate, I wish there were more elaboration on what cantus can do. I mean, we see it used for telekinesis, fire, charging shit, mind control, photokinesis, creating matter ex nihilo, literally putting shit in a different dimension, teleporting shit, etc. Hell, in the novel it's mentioned that in the high-level courses at the school you can learn how to do cold fusion with it, and since ancient cantus users were compared to nuclear bombs, splitting atoms should also be possible. It's basically super awesome reality warping, if not for the drawbwacks.
It's literally like that in reality as well. Attractive = good, ugly = evil without any more information.
>I mean, that was because they captured a false minoshiro. Of course their technology level would rise that fast, any retard could do it with a manual like that.
The "false minoshiro" was just an optical biocomputer system of human knowledge. It was their legacy to begin with so can't criticize them for using it. And even with a manual it still takes real effort and success and determination to use it. I mean holy fuck user, what do you see when you look at the 3rd world? It's not as if they don't have an effective map for at least a few solid decades of easy development to make their countries far better, the 1st World isn't run on magic fairy dust that only exists here. Yet they don't, because their societies are off. Squealer say could have used that knowledge to just give himself and cronies a life of super comfort and fuck everyone else, and the PKs would have been 100% fine with that. Instead he was great. That's OBJECTIVELY not inevitable, as in looking at the real world.
>And the humans still have the capability to build up to that, and much more,
No, the problem is that they don't have that capability in the real sense, because their mutations make it untenable.
>but they don't because most of the can just be emulated with cantus.
No, that's not why they got rid of it. They got rid of it as another means of control, forcing cantus use instead for to give people less free time for independent thinking.
I don't think it's that though. If rats were replaced by ugly humans and cantusnibbas with beautiful elves I bet a lot of the audience would side with the ugly humans.
Having the cantusnaggers look human is probably causing the audience to sympathise with them. Looking beautiful is just a bonus.
You must've missed the part where the rats are subjagated under their own queens. And the fact that livable land is somewhat rare, since the cantus peeps fucked up loads of places centuries ago.
>It's literally like that in reality as well. Attractive = good, ugly = evil without any more information.
Now that you mention it I remember seeing studies that in criminal trials attractive people are far more likely to get lighter sentences or be let off, be generally considered believable, etc. They probably also tend to just avoid trial in the first place more though of course an analysis of trials can't directly account for that.
But they did walk the walk, until a traitor with outdated ideals messed everything up.
I genuinely think this is one of the best sci-fi stories that has been made in the last 10 or 20 years.
On the surface its a generic dystopia with spooky psychic chuuni powers, but it has so much to say about humanity, society, nature as a whole. Not the overarching themes, but the confusing, uncertain stuff that bubbles underneath it.
Specifically, it's diving into ideas like mental illness, and how having too much power is a weakness for a species that needs to survive. It's reflecting not just old-school sci-fi, but also riffing off modern events like school shootings and identity. It treats sex like an ugly, ungratifying thing that's just a coping mechanism for people and inevitably more life means more problems. It touches upon horror, true horror, in more ways than one - all the stories of the old espers like Rahman and Krogius, Boy K and the emperors are basically "It's a Good Life" from The Twilight zone multiplied by 1000. It's crazy.
Easily one of the best shows of the decade.
You know what, the way you framed it was compelling. I conceded the point.
>No, that's not why they got rid of it. They got rid of it as another means of control, forcing cantus use instead for to give people less free time for independent thinking.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they got more free time. There aren't really any too demanding jobs that require a lot of your time. Cantus is very useful. I'm sure they did it like that for a bit more control as well, but the bulk of the reason was to limit the emergence of karma demons.
>all the stories of the old espers like Rahman and Krogius, Boy K and the emperors are basically "It's a Good Life" from The Twilight zone multiplied by 1000. It's crazy.
This. I want a 24 episode sakuga anime about that timefrime. It would be glorious. Or about the prequel, the emergence of cantus and the war of espers vs normal humans.
>Honestly, to steer a bit away from the morality debate, I wish there were more elaboration on what cantus can do. I mean, we see it used for telekinesis, fire, charging shit, mind control, photokinesis, creating matter ex nihilo, literally putting shit in a different dimension, teleporting shit, etc. Hell, in the novel it's mentioned that in the high-level courses at the school you can learn how to do cold fusion with it, and since ancient cantus users were compared to nuclear bombs, splitting atoms should also be possible. It's basically super awesome reality warping, if not for the drawbwacks.
Have to wonder how things would be if the mutation hadn't popped up for even a few more decades. With an e-brain, some sort of assistant AI implant say, perhaps it could have been turned into something purely conscious, still very useful but could be switched off when not in direct desired use (so no unconscious leakage from dreaming and shit). Then it would have been purely a huge positive leap forward. What a shame.
>this is one of the best sci-fi stories that has been made in the last 10 or 20 years
I actually agree but only because scifi has become so utterly shit since the 1990's.
>Yes I can faggot, and I do.
Fine, its subjective so you are entitled to your own opinion you valuable faggot.
>He just poses the answer to a question that was never asked and does not justify it anyway
I can they the same fucking thing to marxist theory, not an argument...
Because jungian archetypes are seen in different type historical text, NOT EXCLUDING DIFFERENT FORMS OF ART, portrayed in all religions through-out the known human history written down through time. The patterns manifest across most civilizations even without previous human collaboration and communication with other civilizations, hell still emerges today in modern art and media, yea just a big fucking coincidence.
Yet it pretty difficult to recommend, since the first couple of episodes were boring as hell. Really, the show only becomes interesting when the Queer Rats were involved. It reached a low point during that early episode after the first time skip, where the entire episode was just everyone kissing homosexually. I've got nothing against that kind of stuff, but it was pretty tedious to watch.
I think working on the basis that other villages wouldn't realize what had happened for 10 fucking years while Squealer grows his mindbroken Fiends is extremely convenient and not plausible at all. That of course assuming he doesn't get "lucky" and creates a Karmic Demon which he cannot control in any way, which would have almost certainly happened at some point due to the children being abused and lacking the proper education and conditioning they would receive normally, plus it's ultimately just a game of statistics and the more Fiends he has to make the greater the risk.
>For that matter would there even be a need for Squealer to remain in Japan?
That's a good question, he could've taken his colony and his Fiend and fucked off somewhere else from the start. That would have probably been a smart move if his colony's survival and freedom actually were his top priorities since the surprise Fiend could almost certainly have kept them safe while traveling, but Squealer either liked the taste of vengeance more than he'd admit or simply was not smart enough to think that far ahead and to look for solutions which allowed freedom and survival without the necessity of bashing every enemy's head in beforehand.
>I mean, I'm pretty sure they got more free time. There aren't really any too demanding jobs that require a lot of your time. Cantus is very useful. I'm sure they did it like that for a bit more control as well, but the bulk of the reason was to limit the emergence of karma demons.
We see in the flash back though going back to the first Karma demon, which happened after the death feedback modification, they they had far more modern buildings, medicine, schools etc. They were working on society following the modification, but they didn't revert back by default. That was done as a result of the near-disaster.
Clearly that was a specific decision. Cantus is very useful yes with enough training, but having all work be essentially manual labor still means that most people are focused on a lot of extra rote stuff, PK or no. Washing clothes, farming, etc. For the majority of the population with the standard strong limiters that is another one. You can't just say "well they could advance" when they have been forced to do the opposite.
Yeah, the mantra was a step in the right direction, but if they could turn their cantus on and off completely without any leakage or subconscious usage it would basically advance humans by a few millenia.
Yeah, that's what I mean. It was done to prevent disasters like that.
I think you underestimate cantus. Literally pull the dirst out of the clothes and run water through it, done. Plow a mental construct through the field and pop in a few thousand seeds, done. All that gets done faster than in an "advanced" society, done by few people.
Even without conscious control a couple more decades would have put combat robots/drones of different forms on the table and that would have been the end of cantus users. Unless they would have engaged in really heavy self modification but that assumes that they would have a lot of geneticist on their side and time for research.
I'm not the subject one cunt.
And still you have no idea what Marxist theory is.
The very notion of what these patterns Jung is seeing is SUBJECTIVE to him.
If he is looking for his pattern he is going to find it.
The same way a Chinese guy is going to see his own perceived historical archetypes.
Jung et Al has not proven empirically what this "tru archetype" is because he cannot.
Take your feelz science somewhere else.
Only each task probably needs years of training to do it properly.
>That's a good question, he could've taken his colony and his Fiend and fucked off somewhere else from the start.
No, definitely not. He had to secure at least a few more for his goal, that single rat-identifying PK (she wasn't a Fiend, death feedback was working perfectly normally they merely changed the target) wasn't sufficient. They had to be able to breed them if nothing else. He had to stay long enough at a minimum to
A) Secure sufficient ones on their side.
B) Make use of the developed industrial base there to engineer as much as possible for a move/colonization elsewhere.
C) Prevent use/replication of the psychobuster weapon.
And more would have been better. Every bit of time they could stay point was time more efficiently used.
>but Squealer either liked the taste of vengeance more than he'd admit or simply was not smart enough to think that far ahead and to look for solutions which allowed freedom and survival without the necessity of bashing every enemy's head in beforehand.
No you fool. Squealer's goal was to save and restore humanity. Not just the survival of himself and his colony. That required a lot more then merely running away right off. Even in an escape, it'd have made sense to make it a fighting escape, have volunteers stay behind to hold off the PKs and deal as much damage as possible as long as possible and try to muddy the tracks of them leaving.
Cantus is actually very simple to explain.
A cantus user links the fabric of reality around them to their mental state. They can conciously edit matter around them, but their subconcious can also cause reality to change or distort.
There is no limit to what cantus can actually do since it has total influence over space, but this is precisely the problem. People can be killed instantly by an angry thought, even if the user themselves doesn't want to actually kill someone, they could just imagine it and it would happen. If psy leakage (i.e. subconcious iinfluence on the local environment) isn't managed, everything starts to gradually get fucked up.
People with schizophrenia become fiends, their limited grasp on reality and impulsive nature combined with Cantus turns them into monsters. People with depression or anxiety become Karma Demons, no longer able to control their own emotions, their self-loathing causes reality to corrupt and distort around them. This comes parcelled with the implication that people with cantus are already mentally deficient in some way, the emperors were all insane and Fox In The Henhouse is a mental tick associated with cantus users.
It's way too fucking powerful and means a civilised cantus society has to jump through 100 hoops just to survive. Cantus is an abomination and humans are woefully incapable of handling it because their evolution occured in a way that did not account for such overwhelming power. What does Cantus do? Everything. It does everything, including being able to turn living creatures into IHNMAIMS abominations and frankly, fuck that shit. Squealer was right.
Not sure why you think that. They've got shields capable of tanking "yes" levels of physical damage, and while they do require concentration to maintain, that's enough time for someone else to imagine the robots exploding, melting, or just falling apart. Really, we see what a peaceful society of cantus users can do, and now imagine what these people in a worldwide war would be able to do. Actual training of military cantus applications beside just "set it on fire" would wreck most anything.
On one hand, you're right. On the other hand, imagine humans being given the possibility to evolve into gods and just throwing it away. You could argue that it is worth spending a few thousand years in chaos for that.
Post a better sci-fi novelisation in the last 10 years or delete your post out of embarrassment.
Nothing released recently is more than just verbose worldbuilding or rehashing old genre ideas with nothing interesting to say.
SSY is commenting on aspects of society relevant to right now, that isn't just identity politics. It makes you re-adjust your perspective and it touches on terror. That makes it good, but feel free to prove me wrong.
>yet still no counter-arguement from you
Other people already tried and, as expected, you a-priori rejected them all.
Also, before someone makes a counter-argument, you should make an argument first, not the other way around.
Please learn how basic logic before trying to sound smart.
Torture is never justified even for selfish and unrepentant criminals. If someone is too dangerous, simply destroy them.
Of course we can imagine more dystopian (and utopian) angles for that though too. If the power started popping up around or during the time of a hard AI takeoff, it's possible one or more strongly superhuman AIs would manage to reverse engineer it in time to use it themselves. Then we really would be dealing with essentially actual for real demigods, not even transhuman but straight up superhuman minds with vastly better PK and control.
At that point if they're nasty humanity is toast, though conversely if they're benevolent then humanity gets true utopia with a literal higher power that can make sure we don't fuck up too badly but otherwise goes off to make a Matryoshka Brain out of other parts of the solar system or something but carves out a few worlds for humans to keep being human on.
But dude, imagine, L I G H T S A B E R S
> not proven empirically
Thats the problem with that reasoning right there. Because this is all subjective Its not the fact of proof, but the application by comparative analysis is whats valuable.
> Take your feelz science somewhere else
If only you dickheads can they say the same thing towards marxism we wouldnt be in this mess
You think like a guy who never played TTRPG or thought about military application of robots. The robots that you see are not the problem. It's those that you can't find that will get you. Bug drones, snakes, fliers. Without heavy modification cantus users are very fragile and even if they have shields they can't keep them up forever. Robots don't have problems like this. They literally can stalk them 24/7 waiting for the moment. And then they are dead.
I think the point is humans just can't cut it. Cantus looks like progress but it is actually a dead-end, evolutionarily.
It doesn't make humanity stronger than a bunch of technologically proficient non-cantus users working together in their millions. It's a cancer on actual evolution.
The only way "humanity" can progress via Cantus is all living isolated existences, which for all intents isn't very effective compared to just having big sprawling societies where new ideas and technological advances can happen rapidly.
Right so basically it's a power too much for humanity. Best shot would have been to create something better that could handle it better instead, not that that wouldn't be risky as fuck too.
Unironically just pop a few nuclear explosions around you (explicitly stated they can defend against that), or crush everything in a radius periodically. Yeah, a single cantus user is easy to tire out, but groups of them have a versatility that can't be matched by anything not a ridiculous comics robot.
Conservatives are literally the biggest nostalgia feel fags in the western world.
No amount of whining about uni sluts with blue hair is ever going to change that.
Keep up the "dude trust me" spin on quack science though, you'll definitely convince more people with that one.
Tbh, we can't actually know what our limit is, technology wise. What if FTL actually remains impossible in all its forms, and all those magical sci-fi devices in fiction are just that, fiction? Yes, we can do models, but we won't know for sure unless we actually do it. It's very well possible that teleportation is a literal impossibility, for example. That's why cantus would be so attractive.
>No, definitely not. He had to secure at least a few more for his goal
Securing a few more is not synonymous with instigating all-out war against Cantus society, ESPECIALLY not while he has a single weapon. Going to war against Cantus is, as I've said, essentially a guaranteed loss for him with the resources he had. He stood a chance against a single, unprepared village but ultimately failed even there, in the "easy" part. He would've been better off biding his time and trying to get a few other children over multiple years, or perhaps even using the girl he had as a deterrent against violence while attempting to open a dialog with some Cantus users who might have had a more accepting view, like Saki herself. His motives were fine, but his actions almost inevitably would have lead to failure sooner or later. Turns out he failed on the "sooner" side in the actual story.
>No you fool. Squealer's goal was to save and restore humanity.
You're the fool here, along with Squealer who was unable to grasp the limits of his strength. Squealer had no means to do such a thing, but he might have had the means to slowly strengthen his position and leave more grandiose objectives for later, when he might have had a much more stable power base. He bit off way more than he could chew and ultimately this lead to his defeat, with the biggest flaw being the one I already pointed out - the fact that his whole plan had a single point of failure in the form of his lone, mindbroken weapon. When she got taken out, everything collapsed.
>I think the point is humans just can't cut it. Cantus looks like progress but it is actually a dead-end, evolutionarily.
>It doesn't make humanity stronger than a bunch of technologically proficient non-cantus users working together in their millions. It's a cancer on actual evolution.
Exactly, and it's a problem to compare it purely to what we have now vs where we could be in another century or two. I mean, obviously that includes everything being fucked up, no law of nature keeps us from launching all our nukes or destroying the biosphere or whatever. But Cantus includes the negative also so can set that aside. Our development at least has the potential to get us off world in the near future and develop ourselves into better sentients, or sentients better then ourselves, which could then take things farther still. Fully formally verified computing frameworks could eliminate a lot of the bugs and issues that cause trouble there.
Cantus is just a power that's way too early. If it came up far later, and preferably after humans were spread out from Earth, it would have been far more positive. I mean shit, think of the advantages in space: if someone is living in a station in the asteroid belt or something, leakage naturally ceases to be an issue, no problem direct all that out into the void at all. Any thing out of control is naturally contained, and the matter/energy control is far more directly useful.
>Unironically just pop a few nuclear explosions around you
Doesn't stop burrowers.
A group of highly trained military cantus users with extensive scientific knowledge probably could stop almost anything but that will take decades of dedicated training and research. At this point you could as well invest in making the protective fields working unconsciously.
>Unironically just pop a few nuclear explosions around you (explicitly stated they can defend against that), or crush everything in a radius periodically. Yeah, a single cantus user is easy to tire out, but groups of them have a versatility that can't be matched by anything not a ridiculous comics robot.
It's not shown that any/all of them can do that level without training, but more to the point one real datapoint we have is that psychobuster worked. What is that if not a bunch of biological micromachines attacking?
This series was pretty direct about similar situation.
What if you invent FTL, travel outside your galaxy and meet colonising aliens who follow you back to Earth and wipe out all live?
I think that's the point, Cantus is an Icarus-style situation. Humanity has cracked nuclear power and now the has ability to murder itself 5 times over. It could have just advanced without knowing that.
Squealer: rapidly industrialized an oppressed slave population and made it strong enough to contend with it's psychic oppressors
psychics: technologically regressed to tribalism and systematically kills off it's own problem children while relying on slave labor to keep themselves fed
the psychics are a genetic and technological dead end for humanity, Squealer was right right to want to get rid of them as was every past civilization that didn't take too kindly to walking nukes that make the world uninhabitable just by thinking.
>Securing a few more is not synonymous with instigating all-out war against Cantus society
Yes, it literally was. Or at least all out war against that particular village.
>He would've been better off biding his time and trying to get a few other children over multiple years
>but he might have had the means to slowly strengthen his position and leave more grandiose objectives for later
I don't think you grasp what the story showed as the time limitations he was operating under. The cantus could/would wipe them out at any time, at random even or just at the hint of them becoming too dangerous. And he couldn't just expect to randomly get children. Remember, Saki and her group were a specific, unique experiment with reduced restrictions to try to find someone who could think more dynamically. Normal people would never ever leave like that, so Squealer could reasonably expect to NEVER get another PK fall into his lap like that ever again. And it was they who decided he was a threat to eliminate first. At that point he had no choice but to gamble on being able to get far enough fast enough, and they were running a democracy and everyone else there knew that too.
As it happens it didn't work out, but what you're suggesting wouldn't have worked either.
>Doesn't stop burrowers.
Place 'em underground. And honestly, I don't think you even need scientific knoweldge to use cantus. In it's base form, it is used subconsciously. Only when it is restrained by psychological shackles like mantras do you need to carefully imagine everything and use it actively. In the human vs esper war, cantus users were explicitly stated to be able to defend against nukes, and literally destory cities like Tokyo with just a few of them. These people definitely didn't have the time to read up and research on the applications of their power. They probably just imagined shit getting destroyed and themselves being protected. Even viruses or nanites could likely be defended against that way. Just like at Shun(?) and how he subconsciously dealt with the poison he took once he lost his limiters. Just disassembled even base elements. And this happened even when he actually wanted to die.
>This series was pretty direct about similar situation.
Yeah, genuinely a real shame that it wussed out and never really explored the implications or followed through on them at all but turned into generic meh. It would have been genuinely refreshing to see Ledo ultimately reject the stagnation and "paradise" of the fruit of life on offer and go with the suffering and risky but ultimately most human knowledge path instead.
>Other people already tried and, as expected, you a-priori rejected them all.
>Other people already tried
>already tried
>tried
Yes they provided their arguments plus with the addition foreseen slander I rebutted they have yet to respond to those rebuttals with a proper argument. All i got was slander. Slander is not an argument...
>Also, before someone makes a counter-argument, you should make an argument first, not the other way around.
Ok I think i know your inital confusion which i will address:
>It's impossible to formulate an argument against an anti-communist because the anti-communist logic is constructed to a-priori invalidate anything that could prove communism right
not an argument... doesn't even address the subject matter, just a tu quoque.....
>You don't know shit about Marx m8
Presumption + Slander, also not an argument...
Frankly I don't see what he can do in his situation besides slowly making Gargantia better. Even if he has all the scientific knowledge (which is doubtful) he would still need decades to achieve any progress.
>It's basically super awesome reality warping, if not for the drawbwacks.
It's about as close to 40k psychic powers as you can ever get.
a better analogy is Israel and the Palestinians
>As it happens it didn't work out
It didn't work out because it was impossible. Even if he killed everyone in the village he would've been entirely exposed for 10+ years until the other children grew and he mindbroke them into thinking they were rats. There is no plausible scenario in which Cantus users from other villages wouldn't have eliminated his colony after he declared war on them. The literal modern military failed in an all-out war against Cantus users, yet you somehow believe a bunch of rats with a single girl capable of effective offense against Cantus would have magically won. It's entirely impossible strictly from the strength of his enemies, not to mention other extreme risks like actual Fiends or Karmic Demons within the ranks of Squealer's hypothetical forces.
His most sane option was probably to use the girl defensively, as a deterrent, while hoping he could get an actual dialog going with Saki. That most certainly was no guaranteed success either, even if he convinced Saki she might not have been able to convince the rest, but at least it was not guaranteed failure like his hyperaggressive military approach either.
>It didn't work out because it was impossible.
No, it was because he was stopped there.
>Even if he killed everyone in the village he would've been entirely exposed for 10+ years until the other children grew and he mindbroke them into thinking they were rats
Can you please keep track of anything? As soon as he had the kids secured and stabilized enough and the psychobuster taken THEN the option of escaping to the sea would at least have been a real one.
>There is no plausible scenario in which Cantus users from other villages wouldn't have eliminated his colony after he declared war on them.
He didn't "declare war on them" he fought one specific village that, remember, had already decided on the colony's elimination! He got what he wanted and knocked back that specific threat, buying a certain amount of time. He wasn't about to march on everyone else.
>The literal modern military failed in an all-out war against Cantus users
Pre-modification Cantus users, who also grew up in modern society and had at least that much knowledge. The current ones are quite different. They can't just attack things they recognize as humans for example. That's why the rat-siding PK was a big deal in the first place.
>yet you somehow believe a bunch of rats with a single girl capable of effective offense against Cantus would have magically won.
I have literally never said that you fucking retard.
>I rebutted
No you didn't, as explained in the following post (which you conveniently ignored)
>All i got was slander. Slander is not an argument...
The irony in this is over 9000 (see pic related)
>Cantus users who also built their foundation and utopia by the sacrifices of many.
those "sacrifices" were innocent bystanders the cantus users enslaved, killed, and genetically modified. at least Squealer's army volunteered.
I see you are conveniently ignoring the risks of actual Fiends or Karmic Demons among stolen children. I'd like to ask you another thing. How do you think death feedback would work when his stolen children have to see and interact with other human children? There are only 2 options here
>they somehow still see themselves as rats, which means his Cantus users can murder each other (potentially with highly destructive results for anyone in the vicinity)
>they see themselves as human, therefore they can murder rats, back to square 1
So his army either faces the critical problem of Cantus users murdering each other, which the world already faced, or he has Cantus users which can murder rats, in which case he solves nothing compared to the present situation of Cantus users being able to murder rats at will.