Remember when mahou shoujo was all about love and friendship?

Mahou shoujo is being made for non-little girls.

Weren't first mahou shoujo depressing too?
But then, they bleached it and made it for kids and stuff.
You could say Madoka made return to it's roots.

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What about a show where a team of magical girls team up with some badass male warriors. That winx show had that to some degree but I'm not sure how relevant the males really were.

They are known as henshin heroes in Japan.

>Something with cute boys and transformations but that is badass
Dragon Ball is pretty much that

Personally I've watched dokidoki, heartcatch, smile and half of hutto

I dropped hugtto but might pick it back up. Its ok
Dokidoki was not very good
Heartcatch and smile were top tier
imo

Not really. The first mahou shoujo shows didn't even involve fighting of any kind. It was just little girls solving mundane problems through magical powers.

Naoko Takeuchi was the first to mix Mahou Shoujo with the sentai genre, and unsurprisingly that started to attract a male audience.

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MS for little girls still exist. Theres loads of them. Go watch them if you are a little girl. Seriously, just try watching Sailor Moon and you'll know how braindead those shows are.

Post-Madoka MS are all Seinen because otaku have money to buy the bds, manga and merch.

Meant for Also star twinkle (currently airing) is pretty good

People didn't understand Madoka and foolishly tried imitating something that was... beyond their comprehension.

>Implying that we wouldn't have gotten to this situation anyway starting from Nanoha.

The deconstruction became the norm. Also Id kill for a maho shonen.

Not at all. A few have been pretty dark, but mostly it's more because of shoujo drama than trying to be Adult and Clever.

None of the dark magical girl shows that have come out since Madoka have been anything like it. Gen'ei is the closest I can think of, and that was in production before Madoka came out anyway.
If Site, Raising Project, and Asuka owe anything to Madoka it is just tempting investors to throw money at something they heard there's a market for. The actual stories are completely different.

Madoka was so far ahead of its time, it was a Reconstruction. But no one understood.
And so it ushered in the age of Deconstructions. Ironically.
But do not fret, for the promised age of Reconstructions is coming! Not tomorrow, but the day after tomorrow belongs to Madoka.

We never got a wave of "Nanoha clones" before Makoka, so I doubt it.

> Madoka was so far ahead of its time

Bokurano did essentially the same thing with the super robot genre, and it came before.

Read my post again.
This speaks so much about just HOW much you do not understand Madoka.
Bokurano is a deconstruction.
Madoka is a reconstruction.
It's totally different - in fact, it's the opposite.

There are no "deconstructions". Most of the shows in question barely even taken anything from the genre beyond girls transforming and having super powers.
Also we've already had Pleiades and Twin Angel since Madoka aired, never mind Precure.

>Shit Shit

mahou shoujo site is a true deconstruction.
So is raising project.

You aren't watching Precure?

Explain one point that Madoka does to the mahou shoujo genre that Bokurano doesn't to the super robot genre.

No. "Deconstruction" is a bullshit term that means little more than "slightly unusual take on the genre". Site and RP aren't even that, because they owe basically nothing to the genre in the first place.

>tfw MahoIku S2 never
I'd kill to see Restart or Limited animated.
I'd argue that Nanoha was responsible for making mahou shoujo aimed at otaku more common.

Bokurano ends with the whole world being devastated, and most of the protagonists dead, no one overcomes their fate and everything ends with nihilism. The cosmic horror wins.
Now, I am not an expert on mecha, so correct me if I am wrong, but normally, it's about team play and winning the day against all odds. Like Gunbuster or Gurrenlagann for example.

Madoka ends with Love and Friendship triumphing over nihilism. It ends exactly the same way as generic magical girl shows do.
The world was as harsh as in Bokurano, the realistic consequences were in place.
But even if, all is lost and meaningless, love and friendship still won - against realism itself.
Madoka is a reaffirmation, it says:
"Yes, there are flaws, yes, there are problems, and yes, the world IS a nihilistic cosmic horror. But EVEN IF, the principles and love and frienship are still right."

THAT is the main difference between the two.

No. No it doesn't. Deconstruction means that you take the genre, and then you confront it with realistic consequences and see how it gets completely recked.
Magical girl site goes into: For what purpose would someone grant magical girls their powers in the first place?
Why do you think they would be friends at all, lol?
And where does the power come from? Doesn't it damage their bodies?
That's a Deconstruction.

While they came after Madoka (only one year though) Vividread Operation and Symphogear have almost nothing to do with Madoka.

>anything that isn't sailor moon is an edgefest and a madoka clone
Every single thread.

Dunno what you are talking about, MS is still at heart about love and friendship. Oh I get it, you mean its no longer about only love and friendship.

Sup Yea Forums, remember the fanfic?

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What about Rebellion, which basically undoes Madoka's ending because Homura couldn't get over the fact that her friend was gone?

Love and friendship no longer sells.

>Deconstruction means that you take the genre, and then you confront it with realistic consequences
Not the way people use it, which to describe basically anything slightly different from their understanding of genre conventions.
Also, Site isn't at all realistic, it's total nonsense. Why do you think edgy trash is more realistic than friendship? Why would magic damage someone's body? It's fucking magic.

>Bokurano ends with the whole world being devastated

Not their world, it was the world they were fighting against. They fought to save their own world and they won, planet earth was saved.

> Everything ends with nihilism

Bullshit. The manga ends in a positive tone despite the fact the cycle continues. But you know what? The cycles continues in Madoka as well. Young girls are still going to prematurely end their lives in order to safeguard humanity, promote its evolution and provide energy to the Kyubei. If you are claiming that it's still fine because the girls are happy in spite of that, then Bokurano works as well.

Kids are cruel, user. And my daughteru Swim Swim is very in touch with her nature.

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I was actually talking about that.
Even more so. And by an order of Magnitude at that.
Rebellion literally ends with Homura creating a world whose purpose is love for the sake of her friend.

The original principles of the Magical Girl genre: Love and Friendship, end up getting elevated to universal maxims.
And it creates a world where all characters (arguably except Homura) are alive and happy.

Or to formulate it another way.
Rebellions message is the following: "Not only are love and friendship good and worth fighting for, ON TOP OF THAT, but they also are worthy of being elevated to universal principles, overcome nihilism and redeem existence itself

Like, there is no greater victory for those principles, that would theoretically be imaginable.

REBELLION. Read the post above.
And no, not even the original series.
In Bokurano, NOTHING is changed. All characters archive absolutely N O T H I N G. Their planet got devastated because lots of cities were destroyed. And they didn't save anything because 2^16-1 equivalent universes were destroyed. We just randomly ended up observing the one that was lucky. That's not a victory.

In Madoka, love, and friendship end up making the world a tiny tiny bit less cruel. And that's already great in the face of nihilism.

PreCure is airing every season.

Variety is a good thing.

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>almost 10 years later and retards still think that anything with magic and negative emotions must be a madoka clone, even if they have absolutely nothing at all to do with Madoka
Wew, this cancer is never going to leave is it?

> All characters archive absolutely N O T H I N G.

Saving their universe, their families and their friends is nothing?
Come on now, you are just using a forced interpretation to make things look the way you want.

Deconstruction is not necessarily realistic, it is just taking the genre apart by looking at how it would play out if you change components.

There is no edge case, however.
Like, a story about a blind hero is not a deconstruction if he manages to overcome his limitations.
A story about a hero who is blind, and because of that gets severely limited by his limitation and suffering consequences is a deconstruction.

A deconstruction vs a different take is defined on the story structure and not on the elements themselves.
It's not even that it has to be realistic, it is just that it plays its own logic out till the end.

One of the japs i follow retweetet a literal magical girs (boys) manga once but it was about 5 months ago. It was a comedy for what i could gather and the art was like a mixture of BLADE and that guy who made Hibusou Shinki.

FUCK SWIM SWIM

Yes, this is N O T H I N G.

>you are just using a forced interpretation
No, I don't. You just have an extremely narrow point of view.

The "game" that they end up winning, is just for the purpose of entertainment for the overlords.
Nothing gets changed, the system remains the same, and 2^16-1 universes die.

The plot of Bokurano is about the characters accepting nihilism and their fate and dealing with it.
For them, it is better to win than to lose, because of their friends and families and shit.

Like, 1 million people play lotto, one wins, and everyone else gets shot by an evil terrorist organization.
The one person gets beat up and thrown on the streets but he survives.
The terrorist organization gets away with it, and there no chance of ever getting back at them. And in fact, they gain a lot from it.

That is the story of Bokurano, congratulations, you won, be proud of yourself.

>Deconstruction is not necessarily realistic
Okay, tell that to who claimed it was.

That was both me.
Realistic consequences and being realistic is not the same thing.

Imagine, IF there was a nuclear bomb that would explode over your house, the realistic consequences would be that you would die
It isn't realistic that there is a nuclear bomb over your house.

See the difference?

you wish

I want to impregnate this retarded psychopath.

Restart anime never.

I hate SwimSwim.

Flip Flappers was pretty straightforward at least.

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Talking about the "realistic consequences" of magic is nonsensical though. None of the "deconstructions" are any more realistic than the shows for little girls, because they all just run on their own made up logic.

>eventually
It was ressurected after 20 years for no particularly good reason

reminder that tama is a good girl and did nothing wrong

>Talking about the "realistic consequences" of magic is nonsensical though
>because they all just run on their own made-up logic.

All logic is made up.
You can make up a logic where 2+2=5, and it wouldn't be nonsensical. It would just be theoretical. And magic is in the same way.

Tama is a good girl, but I like Alice more.

Unfortunate that this series will never get a second season. Restart is such a better arc in so many ways.

>Deconstruction means that you take the genre, and then you confront it with realistic consequences and see how it gets completely recked.

>Originated by the philosopher Jacques Derrida, deconstruction is an approach to understanding the relationship between text and meaning. Derrida's approach consisted of conducting readings of texts with an ear to what runs counter to the intended meaning or structural unity of a particular text
>When applied to tropes, or other aspects of fiction, deconstruction means to take apart a trope so as to better understand its meaning and relevance to us in Real Life. This often means pursuing a trope’s inherent contradictions and the difference between how the trope appears in this one work and how it compares to other relevant tropes or ideas both in fiction and Real Life.

You're an absolute moron and don't deserve to have any opinions at all, let alone opinions on media.

My Wives Swim2 and Nokko-Chan are so cute.

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You got Clear Card, its just that, surprise, mahou shoujo played straight is pretty shit when you're over the age of 10.

>You can make up a logic where 2+2=5
And will quickly find it isn't any use at all because all your numbers are 0.
Besides which how is that related to my post? Did you even read it?

Dude no big sentences please, wow.

Swim swim a shit shit.

HELL YEAH I WILL

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And now point out the difference between those two definitions.

>pursuing a trope’s inherent contradictions and the difference between how the trope appears in this one work and how it compares to (...) Real Life.
>you confront it with realistic consequences and see how it gets completely recked
Those are equivalent definitions with emphasis on different aspects.

You sound like someone who doesn't understand either but just copied them from Wikipedia.

I thought it said nihilistic consequences, not realistic.

Can't we just simplify all this down to
>first mahou shoujo shows were all happy and nice but Madoka came out and it was sad and angry and successful so now mahou shoujo shows are all sad and angry

This (and Genei Kakeru Taiyou, because why not)
Does Vivid count?

You cut out part of that user's definition for a start. And his said nothing about anything being "recked".
Seems to me that the point of is that deconstruction is using tropes to comment on the tropes themselves, not to make any point about realism or consequences.

You'd be completely wrong, but not alone.

Love and friendship is all the more poignant in the face of suffering. It's not just dark for darkness' sake; it's dark so the hero can ultimately stand in defiance of it. MGRP is full of those moments. It's about disillusionment but also true heroism.
Write the next fucking arc Asari, it's way too dark right now.

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>it isn't any use at all because all your numbers are 0
No, it isn't necessarily the case.
The 4 axioms of groups are:
For all a,b in A, a+b in A
For all a,b,c in A, (a + b) + c = a + (b + c).
For all a in A, a + 0 = 0 + a = a.
For all a in A exists b in A with a+b = 0, and b+a = 0

If 2+2 = 5, then you could just a group of 3 elements {0,2,5} defined by permutations:

2+2 = 5
2+5 = 0
5+2 = 0
5+5 = 2
0+2 = 2
2+0 = 2
0+0 = 0
5+0 = 5
0+5 = 5

this would hold up all group axioms.
Therefore you could have a group with 2+2=5 where not all elements are 0

Anyway. The property that the group that has this property would be messed up, that are the realistic consequences of 2+2=5.

As I said, it has a different emphasis.

Madokafags aren't known by their intelligence user, you need to be patient when dealing with them, otherwise they can be, well, "problematic".

By using "2" and "5" you implicitly suggest that they're supposed to share the properties of the usual 2 and 5, at least so far as 2 being the successor of 1 and 5 of 4. Otherwise you might as well just end up with the integers but where you switch the symbols used for 4 and 5. Which doesn't get you anything.

No, it's saying something different that has some parts in common. The point is that deconstruction is about considering what the genre implicitly communicates, not about reality or consequences.

It's been 8 years. What you should probably be telling me is, "If they don't get it by now they never will."

>you implicitly suggest that they're supposed to share the properties of the usual 2 and 5
Well, by saying that 2+2=5 I obviously deny those properties in this case, as 2+2!=5 is one of them.
But it shares some properties with it. Like, I could also define a real vector space V that just has a hole in [4,5), meaning that you have define an isomorphism with:
f:R -> V
x -> x if x < 4,
x+1 otherwise

And as far as I can see it would still hold the vector space axioms. So 2+2 = 5 is actually not that vicious a property.

Madoka ruined it

It's not that vicious if you live in a world where 4 doesn't fucking exist

It can't be an isomorphism since it isn't bijective. In that case, 2+2 = 5 = 3 +2, which would mean 0 = 1

The fuck are these nerds talking about?

That vector space doesn't have a hole in it at all, you're just awkwardly re-writing the real numbers above 4. You don't get a different space at all.
The only way I know of where notation like "2 + 2 = 5" is used is modulo arithmetic, and in this case it only makes sense modulo 1.

>Does Vivid count?
Vivid is pretty edgy

*ecchi

No, 3+2 = 6 in this case.

That's all true. So?
I have now given you a very different and a very similar space to R that has 2+2=5.
My point is that it is possible to define many different structures with that property.
And it's not that simple as to say that it implies that all numbers are Zero.

I wonder what direction the new arc will take us. We left off on a pretty interesting position for all the surviving characters.

It's not very different from R at all, it's isomorphic. You've just changed how you write the numbers. It's like claiming Nips use a different number system when they write in kanji.

That is not a different logic in a different space, that's the exact same logic as what we have in the real world, except if the Arabians wrote 12356 instead of 12345
It's just a matter of replacing one symbol for another, the logic still remains the same

> about what the genre implicitly communicates
>not about (...) consequences

What the genre implicitly communicates and the realistic consequences of the genre are the exact same thing.

fuck swimswim!

In that case it's even dumber since you're just calling a symbol by another symbol, like swapping every "a" with "@" for instance.

No they aren't. I can't even see how you could think that.

>What the genre implicitly communicates and the realistic consequences of the genre are the exact same thing.
What the fuck? Have you ever read a single book in your entire life?

Sure, that's why I also gave you a group of 3 elements that has 2+2=5, and wildly different properties from it.
But wanted them to have as many properties from R as possible, so of course, it's going to be an isomorphism then.

You could also define a structure that is unbound by any axioms.
Like x+y = (pi^x)^(1/y)

No one prevents you from doing that.
You could also introduce hypercomplex numbers. and parameters and everything.

What do you even want?
All of this is to show, that you can play around with any theoretical structure. And it will always have logical implications.

>spoiler
At the rate their going, YP is going to catch up before the next one is out.

Ok, I am now convinced this is a semantic problem.

Name something that you would call "realistic consequences" that would not be implicitly communicated by the genre.

Wasn't your initial statement
>All logic is made up.

Sailormoon was quite edgy too, at least the manga.

Now, most "edgy" madoka clones doesn't really have much in common with Madoka to be honest. They were more like action shows with a mahou shoujo theme. But if we go there, I guess we could say Madoka was just a dark fantasy with mahou shoujo theme. Because they superficially mention mahou shoujo subjects or make fun of them but then don't actually use them.

ITs like those anime about people playing a game, but everyone acts as if was in a fantasy work. Its just fantasy warped around the game theme, not actually a work about games

Yes.
Logic is defined by axioms, take those away or change them, and you will get a different logic.

The big differentiation is the target demographic.

Mahou Shoujo that aimed towards little girls still focuses on being cute, falling in love (with a guy), finding yourself, and friendship.

Mahou Shoujo that is aimed towards men are either fanservice, revealing outfits, and lots of implied lesbianism or they are death games/the last man standing in frilly outfits

>no particularly good reason
Old things are into fashion again, we lived a time where suddenly the 80s were fucking everywhere again, then we moved to the 90s fever.

Eventually we will get an early 2000's nostalgia an will end seeing Chrono Crusade and TTGL sequels or remakes

>precure is aimed towards men

Vivio saved the magical girl genre

Well, he is not wrong technically if what we are talking about is the market and not the series itself.

To follow up on this post, there are still countless Mahou Shoujo that focuses on the girly stuff, they are not animated, and for some reason, most people tend to not scanlate them. They girly girl magical girl stuff tends to be in Shoujo anthologies like Ribon Mascot Comics, Hana to Yume, and many others.

That is incorrect, the primary audience is girls, but over time the show started attracting men. They also acknowledge this and do lots of implied pandering to attract men.

>That is incorrect
I'm glad you could realize your logic was stupid.

You forgot the sentence that follows where I say you are wrong.

>the primary audience is girls, but over time the show started attracting men. They also acknowledge this and do lots of implied pandering to attract men.

which kind of mahou shoujo series would you like to see?
could you come with a concept for a mahou shoujo series?

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I think "realistic consequences" are irrelevant when you're talking about fiction. Especially when magic is explicitly involved.
Fiction tends to have some sort of message. The point of deconstruction is to look at the elements used to communicate that message, and consider what message they have on their own.
For instance a lot of magical girl shows are full of pink hearts. A magical girl show whose main theme was about the use of pink hearts in magical girl shows would be a deconstruction. but wouldn't need to have anything to do with realistic consequences.

I finished reading this just yesterday.
I wouldn't mind an anime adaptation.

It is mahou shoujo, right?

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The market is still dominated by Precure.
If anything the bigger change is that Precure's competition is idol shows like Aikatsu rather than other magical girl shows. (Which isn't that new as magical idol shows for little girls used to be a thing too.)

Mahou shoujo set in a fantasy world
Plot would alternate between mahou shoujo doing mahou shoujo stuff and the 'scientific' mages in that world going bonkers trying to explain all that illogical magic bullshit

Of those things Precure only has revealing outfits, and they generally aren't that revealing.

That's pretty gay, user.

Come to think of it, is there an isekai mahou shoujo out there yet? I'll be shocked if there isn't

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They'll just be like
>fucking fairies

Maho had lesbianism, and most of them don't even deal with falling in love. "Being cute" is almost never present in precure either.

>that's why I also gave you a group of 3 elements
Which is just writing c3 with 0, 2, 5 for some reason. Merely using symbols in arbitrary unconventional ways doesn't tell anyone anything.

In what sense? I mean, I know isekais with mahou-shoujo characters on it. Now if you talk about an isekai where the MC dies and is reincarnated as a magical girl I think there is nothing of the sort

Not really, just think on an anime with people like Xiaorang. Chrono or Erio (shota version) but where they are the protagonists instead the girls

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the later
I can't think of any either

It's that slow? YP only released Limited 2 a month ago and Jokers isn't supposed to be out until October.

There is probably a market for that. Is a pity that I can't write a shit.

The first one is understandable
>デスマーチ
>デスマッチ
The second one, not so much

* Nanoha Vivid
(Meant to exclude Vivid Strike)
I haven't gone through half of the manga though.

The only show that's really Madoka-like is WIXOSS

For the love of god, you could also just define a construct where 2+2=5 and for all other numbers it goes exactly like the normal real numbers.
It just wouldn't meet the criteria for an established algebraic construct. SO? That would still be definable.

tfw the best madoka clone was WIXOSS and even that was kinda bad

>SO?
So it's a completely stupid and pointless. It's like saying dogs can be cats if you re-define "cat" to mean "dog". You aren't actually saying anything at all.

Which isn't really mahou shoujo...

Most Precure seasons don't really deal with romance like older mahou shoujo did.
There's also YuYuYu.

But is far more similar to Madoka than any other anime named in this thread therefore the mahou shoujo genre didn't became full of Madoka clones as some anons said before

it's mahou shoujo but the cards are the magical girl

So cool magic transforming boys instead of cute magic boys? Not much of either. I know Nozomira got big on Twitter and it's a totally played straight classic style mahou shounen. But one that isn't just rereading sentai or henshin is especially rare.

A battle shounen styled one like what you want would probably be more like Seiya or the Geahs.

FUCK SWIM SWIM!

>Most Precure seasons don't really deal with romance like older mahou shoujo did.
Not even older mahou shoujo deal with romance like older mahou shoujo did. I still remember Sailor moon basically erasing from existence the love interests of all the girls except Usagi's

>About the use of pink hearts in magical girl shows
So let's make it concrete. Your example would go something like this:

1. Pink hearts exist in the word and hold power because they represent the heart.
2. And there is a magical girl that discovers that they are not powerful enough because they are not close enough to the real heart.
3. She discovers that it is originated from a Mayan cult of human sacrifices.
4. So she cuts out lots of human hearts and uses them for power instead, etc.

That would be a deconstruction of the use of pink hearts in magical girl shows.

Just establishing the concept of hearts is not a deconstruction. There needs to be an action for it to happen. It needs to be contrasted with other interpretations of the concept.

The consequences of hearts revealing themselves to be what they are, are that the magical girl goes around cutting out peoples hearts.

2-3 are deconstructing the use of pink hearts.
4 are the consequences of said discovery.

I guess our difference is the following: If 4. Is necessary for a deconstruction. I say that 4 is always used in deconstruction to fully expose the inner contradictions of it. While 1-3 would probably be enough for it to be technically considered a deconstruction. 4 is vital and usual

>watch raising project
>the robot girl (my favorite) dies early
goddammit
I hate edgy shows because all my favorite characters just die

Yuyuyu didn't feel that similar to Madoka, it was more like your average edgy mahou shoujo pandering otakus

No, this particular case doesn't do that.
It's a totally different construct. Read my post again.

yuyuyu is less edgy than even Madoka.

Sounds like a good animu

Precure is cute. Maho was pretty gay, but plenty of the girls have had male love interests. Even if they have been largely irrelevant. Friendship and some variation on "finding yourself" are pretty universal though. Which still leaves Precure with a lot more from the "little girls" list than the "older otaku" list.

>Mahou shoujo set in a fantasy world
>isekai mahou shoujo
Magic Knight Rayearth, maybe?

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Madoka was cute, some of the girls had male love interests and the main theme is friendship, so is Madoka for little girls then?

I don't think anyone said the genre became filled with Madoka clones, actually the only ones that constantly say the words "madoka clones" is the people greentexting things no one said, (at least not in this thread)

What they said is that we started to get more different things some of them someway dark or even "edgy" since madoka, not that those things are madoka clones.

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There's that one where the otaku MC reincarnates as a mahou shoujo stick and transforms a loli to a lewd version of his favorite mahou shoujo character

Well actually...
seiga.nicovideo.jp/comic/39350

Well, as far as I'm aware, the author has been busy with a web novel ever since Queens was released. I haven't heard anything about what is planned after that is finished. At this point I'm starting to wonder if there ever will be another book written.

>yuyuyu
>less edgy than even Madoka.
What???

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There are still lighthearted mahou shoujo shows around, just more darker ones appeared as well.
I prefer a mixture of the two, which is why I like Yuuki Yuuna a lot. I honestly would prefer more shows like that in future instead of full on edge like site.
It's also hard to establish a new long running mahou shoujo franchise when Precure has a monopoly on the market.

I always wanted something that had like a clash of two alternative universes, one where the local heroes are magical girls, and one where it's magitech boys, how both of those groups have their own ways of approaching incidents and monsters, and have to learn how to work together now that their worlds connected.

>Your example would go something like this
No. I don't have a concrete example of a plot, and I don't think yours counts. That's just being edgy by taking heart symbolism literally, it doesn't really tell you anything about heart symbolism.

You know what it means for a story to have a theme or message right? Like friendship or whatever. Write a story where the theme is "the use of pink hearts in magical girl shows". That's a deconstruction. But I don't know how you'd do it, and I doubt the result would be very good if you did.

>What they said is that we started to get more different things some of them someway dark or even "edgy" since madoka, not that those things are madoka clones.
I don't really think that we are getting more dark mahou shoujo anime now, that kind of anime has been released decades before Madoka was aired.
I just think that mahou shoujo like mechas just became less popular that's why there're less mahou shoujo anime

Okay, that example is like saying you've decided to use the word "dog" to mean "dog or this one particular cat". It's still totally meaningless. All you're doing is deciding your words don't mean what other people think they mean.

>Yuuki Yuuna
You mean that show where literally everyone watching was calling the happy-ending last episode bullshit?

Mahou shoujo mecha show fucking whe...o, yeah, its called Symphogear, I almost forgot

The theme of that story was "the use of pink hearts in magical girl shows".

>it doesn't really tell you anything about heart symbolism
It tells you what the heart symbolism is actually symbolizing.

>Write a story where the theme is "the use of pink hearts in magical girl shows". That's a deconstruction.
Your definition is completely retarded.
Because if

'a story where the theme is "the use of pink hearts in magical girl shows"' is a deconstruction of "the use of pink hearts in magical girl shows".

Then

'a story where the theme is "friendship"' is a deconstruction of "friendship".

Under this definition, Sailormoon is a deconstruction. Actually, every single show that has a theme at all would be a deconstruction. This is clearly and obviously wrong.

No. It isn't renaming anything at all.
Read it again.
A tip: Under that definition

2+2 = 5, but also
2+3 = 5 and 2.5 + 2.5 = 5 and 2.9 + 2.1 = 5.
And thus 2+2 = 2+3

And that would still be well defined because + is just an operator.

Didn't you say

This 1. construct
is not the same construct as this 2. construct.

2. is a vector space
1. isn't.

only applies to 2.

Goddamn it, I'm tired of having to teach you people. I'm tired of having to explain this shit again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

Dark edgy magical girls were from the fucking beginning. Go watch some fucking Cutey Honey and don't come back until you do

But Card Captor isn't edgy, user. Only fucking obscure shit existed back then.
OHHH shamanic princess is soooo edgy!!!!
That's how you sound. I saw it all, I have gone through the whole list. And none of them are really edgy. They are just regular shonen tier AT FUCKING BEST.
Stop creaming yourself over fucking anime because you watched shit from before you were born faggot. Grow up.

Before telling people what to do, first you should learn the difference between dark and edgy.

It was never considered to have anything to do with the mahou shoujo genre on his time. Hell she doesn't even have magical powers, she doesn't even adhere to the standard element that characterize mahou shoujo!

But then in later years people started labeling "magical girls" everything. It's a girl? It has magical powers? It's a Mahou Shoujo! It doesn't even have magical powers but just supernatural powers? Mahou Shoujo!

We will reach a point where people will label even fucking Lina Inverse or Naga the Serpent as Mahou Shoujo. Wait, maybe we have already at that point!

Maybe even Misaka Mikoto is a Mahou Shoujo, why fucking not? Let's take a step further and let's relabel any fucking marvel and DC hero with a vagina as a Mahou Shoujo!

Are you telling me tvtropes isn't a good source of information?

So what are some magical girl shows that don't involve fighting monsters or stuff like that

Devilman is a Mahou Shoujo

IIRC Doremi was that, they just went around solving problems

So basically what happened with "loli" and "netorare" tags

tomgirl

In the late years mahou shoujos fight other mahou shoujos, evil organizations and life, fighting monsters is something only Precure does.

looks cute.
I suppose there's those shows where some girl transform into an older girl like Full Moon or something.

I fucking hate Gaim and Ryuki gave me nightmares as a kid

Princess Tutu

Careful, Doremi is more serious than it seems. IT goes some really dark places sometimes

Enjoyable for what it was, just kinda hate what I know about Mahoika was a lie and still have to wait to read up to the point I did in the OG translations

Yeah, thankfully there's the official translation.

People don't remember the non-edgy shows

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There was a thread a few days ago

I want another Dog Days Season.

>What happened?
The Butcher made it better.

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I've given up at this point. Better rev up those breakdown translations.

I still miss the early days, ignorance was bliss. I wonder what would have happened if the translations were legit in the first place.

Speaking of those, did the person that was translating those stop? It hasn't been updated in quite a while.

>innocent MC
>Akane
She was as much a sociopath as Makishima. She was far from innocent.

Is Yuki Yuna is an hero worth watching? I hear it was a Madoka ripoff/wannabe.

I haven't been on touch with the /u/ thread but I think those are on halt. Iirc last I heard was that he was just taking a break.

Read NoWaYu

watch it and find out. And no, it's fafner with magical girls and more religious themes.
Also read NoWaYu.

How long must I wait before my 3x3 is complete? I'm already reaching with Ilya. If I'm reaching reaching I could add some of these but these don't exactly fit the "edgy magical girl" genre
>Spyce - no magic
>Symphogear - not really that edgy
>Kill la Kill - not really edgy and very subtle about being a magical girl show
>Princess Principal - no magic, also has the proper edge for edgy magical girl though

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I'm pretty sure there's already some dark mahou shoujo anime aside from those but I can't remember now.

>Prisma Illya is now considered edgy
I see that the word already lost all meaning.

>Unironically banned pedophilia
>Somehow that is not edgy
wew lad.

Also have always wanted this

I thought 3rei went full edge with Shirou and all?

3rei shirou is Akemi Homura.

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Gen'ei

Madoka, yuyuyu and Iliya aren't really edgy, unless this picture is meant as bait. And it's missing genei and wixoss (although not strictly a mahou shojou)

Even the Shirou parts in 3rei aren't edgy at all, and Illya is still, well, Illya.

>Right is Kiritsugi
>Left is Miyu's Shirou
Who's middle? Is that Redman or UBW Shirou?

They were depressing but it was mostly a means to an end. All the bad stuff happened could be seen a trial for the mahou shoujo to overcome and make the world into a better place. They main key difference is whether or not someone is sacrificed for such an ending aka a bittersweet ending vs a happy ending.

Right is Kiritsugu
The middle is Julian Ainsworth
Left is Miyu's Shirou

Also

Right is QB
Middle is Madoka
and Left is Homura

This should REALLY make you think.

Sounds like Twice, I guess.

Holy shit, you're right! I don't know how I didn't see these similarities before. Really boggles my mind. Another Yea Forumsnon pointed out how in the op for Rebellion everyone's dancing except Homura. At the end of the movie only Homura's dancing. Really makes you think how the Ainsworth arc will end.

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>Really makes you think how the Ainsworth arc will end.
Illya will save everyone

Magical girl parodies and spin offs of existing shows, any recent ones other than fate kaleid Liner?

Akanesatsu shoujo was a fine magical girls show if that counts. My critteria is
>it has a henshin?
>It's a magical girls show.

Nanoha

Ah, ok then. Thanks.

By that criteria CCS is not a magical girl show.

I mean shows that has mcs who were side characters in some other previously existing franchise, like Illya, Komugi, Nanoha, Pretty Sammy

That Michiru spinoff

>Really makes you think how the Ainsworth arc will end.
Prisma Illya, of all Magical Girl anime that came out after Madoka is the only one that demonstrates that it understands its essence. That is remarkable.

However, don't think that it will be able to add anything to it.
It will probably try and fail to imitate Rebellions ending, and Illya will just end up saving everyone.

Hmm...never played or watched Grisaia, but then, never played Triangle Hearts either

Prisma Illya started before Madoka, and not everything wants to copy Madoka (crazy, I know).

I'd watch it

Wouldn't a mahou shonen transform into a tall buff handsome fashionable guy instead

3rei didn't.

There was foreshadowing for the current events in 2wei

Well, the grand unified Meta-Narrative runs far deeper than just Madoka.
However, the current iteration of Shirou is clearly deeply inspired by Homura. That much is undeniable.
I am pretty sure that it was planned that Miyu came from a parallel world from the beginning. But the story certainly wasn't thought out in detail yet.

Shirou being autistic about wanting to save people comes all the way from F/SN.

No, this is not the same thing.
Shirou goes beyond Heaven's feel in Kaleid, he basically sacrifices the World for Miyu.

Symphogear not really that edgy but Illya is?

Genei wo Kakeru Taiyou would qualify I guess, and Flip flappers too.

But Illya? Really? Doremi is more edgy since it had misscarriage and other shit

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3rei Shirou is probably less edgy than the original F/SN Shirou.

One or two depressing episodes doesn't make the whole damn show edgy you imbecile

>anything that is dark wants to imitate Madoka
>anything that isn't dark failed to imitate Madoka
The daily lives of madokafags must be tough.

More gender bender mahou shoujo

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Well, Illya has zero edgy episodes and you still consider the whole thing to be edgy.

Gennei wasn't that edgy either.
May be the problem is we are seing a pattern where there isn't one. The only mahoy shoujo shows that are actually someway dark are Raising project and Site, and I'm not sure if Site would properly fit as mahou shoujo.

Asuka is an action show with a Mahou shoujo skin, isn't really much dark either.

>Seriously, just try watching Sailor Moon and you'll know how braindead those shows are.

The show isn't the braindead half of the equation here.

>Imagine ACTUALLY replying that to a post that says the EXACT opposite of that.

...

Did you even watch/read it? Can you tell me what parts you consider "edgy" about it?

And he is completely unconflicted about it. Compare that to Heaven's Feel Shirou, who mindbreaks himself while fighting evil dickworms.

>majitora's finished
>no updates on high school boys yadda yadda for almost a year
Sad times

Low quality bait

Pleiades was forever ago, and even when it released it was hailed as the first classical maho shoujo in years.
As others have said, Precure is basically the last 'classic' maho shoujo, which is sad because it's a pretty mediocre franchise.

>Gainax's swan song

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No? Very few magical girls age up when they transform.

Get Shazam out of your head user. Actually with that in mind, the west did maho shonen before the east did.

But Akemi Homura was a ripoff of a character in Kamen Rider Ryuki.

Mahoii anyone?
Maybe it was a little ecchi but it was wholesome for all it was

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Akemi Homura is also Caius Ballad.

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"Soushin Shoujo Matoi" from 2016 had some Nanoha influence in there, and wasn't particularly dark.
youtube.com/watch?v=rrgFCd-biBc

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Why did people forget about Yuma-chin's show?

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I'd ask how that works when Homura came first, but they both have a convenient excuse.

I am an unabashed hetfag. My first anime ever was CSS in my mid teens (my darkest secret then that I now brag about for having good taste), Princess Tutu a few years later, and Pleiades when it aired a few years after that. I got hard into anime soon after that (Pleaides was basically a gateway) and was dismayed to find that what I thought was 'my genre', that beloved genre with cute genki girls falling in love and healing cute damaged/grumpy boys, was actually yurifag central and overall not at all what I thought it to be.
I didn't watch Madoka till 2016, so watching it was a doubledged sword. I saw what it was doing, it was good, but I couldn't stop myself thinking "so this is where it all went wrong, huh", though I suppose as others have said Nanoha can probably take half the blame as well.

Sorry just wanted to rant.

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user...
Bokura wa Mahou Shounen

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People who complain that mahou shoujo has changed don't actually watch anime at all.

There is no convenient excuse in this case.
Miyuverse Shirou is excusable, but Caius isn't.
The convenient excuse is that they are both originated by the same source.
There are no true originals in this world.

Because they let Yuma handle their social media presence.

The joke was that they're both time travellers, user

I don't think you get what he was saying. It may just be me being a pleb and blind, but I've never seen a maho shonen played straight. It's always some twist like they're idols or genderbend or crossdressing or some shit.

Funny enough Saraznmai (forgot the name, this season's Ikuhara anime) is the closest thing to a straightforward maho shonen I've ever seen. Let that sink in for a moment.

Early YuYu Hakusho. And by extension, early Bleach.

The plot made no sense and the characters weren't very interesting but it had cute girls, so yes.

> maho shonen played straight
Literally any battle shounen with magic (that is, 99% of them)

It's literally a mahou shonen, user. It's even called that in the title. If you want transformations that's just called a regular shonen.

It feels kind of like the midpoint between Madoka and Symphogear.

No, the joke is that they are both time travelers who watched their most important girl person die over and over again, powerless to stop it.
And then they both pulled god from heaven and destroyed the world.
Because they both decided that their love was more important than the world.
Both characters end up letting go of their loved one in the end.
And both characters end up staying behind in eternal darkness and "continue to wish for their happiness".

It is BEYOND uncanny.

edgy moefags took over the genre.

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Not dark enough to feature in bait threads about how all mahou shoujo shows are edgy now

Gegege no Kintarou somewhat fits the format and demographic

Twin Angel Break was good.

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I want to FUCK tomoyo.

I think the only Mahou Shoujos that accomplished the most important thing (setting a magical atmosphere) were Princess Tutu who did it best, Madoka, the Toyota commercial, A's even though it was technically technology instead of magic and Flip Flappers.

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any live action magical girl shows or movies?

The way this show handled Mahou Shoujo transformations was too revolutionary for the genre.

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>No CCS
CCS is the ultimate 'imagining an adventure in your backyard'. As a young boy who watched it, the way it had all the cool supernatural elements happen in her small little neighborhood really gave you the feeling that it could happen to anyone, even you, and it fueld imagination. I'd wander around outside with my friends just rambling out what I 'saw', and they'd sometimes get swept up in it too.

I don't even need to guess if little girls felt the same, if not even more so considering Sakura was the lead. I feel that's an extremely important aspect of CCS that's overlooked.

Just because Boueibu is a fujo comedy doesn't mean it's not a legit mahou shounen. But I do agree that I'd love a serious tone mahou shounen.

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It's called wizards/mages.

Saigo no kibou da

This argument is so stupid. Edgy mahou shoujo anime didn't replace normal mahou shoujo anime. Both categories don't even have the same target demographic. If anything replaced classic mahou shoujo for little girls, it's stuff like Aikatsu, Prichan or Cocotama. Mahou shoujo aimed at teens or adult fans were always few and were mostly about humor or action. People pretend those don't exist anymore but it's most likely because they don't even care about them in the first place. In recent memory we got the new Twin Angel, Komugi-chan R, Mahou Shoujo nante mou ii desukara, Mahou Shoujo Ore, Majokko Shimai no Yoyo to Nene, and Soushin Shoujo Matoi. On the other hand stuff like Site or Asuka are basically just action series with a Mahou Shoujo skin, and have little to no incidence on regular mahou shoujo being made.
It's like nostalgiafags complaining that late-night anime are the reason we don't get anymore stuff like Joe, GE999 or Conan, completely forgetting those were often manga adaptations aimed at kids while stuff aimed at adult fans was already mostly pandering trash. They should complain about WSJ killing quality manga and anime for children, but it's easier to point fingers at fat nerds than to tell millions of DBZ fans they're the reason your favorite kind of anime doesn't get made anymore.

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>dons armor and spandex
Nice try but it needs to be a normal looking fabric.
Maybe some isekai has them.

Wrong, because the female equivalent are witches/sorceresses.

user Please

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It's like that MMO thing where a suit of armor can cover a man from head to toe, but inexplicably shrinks into a bikini when worn by a woman.

Note that Super Sentai teams have men and women wearing the same outift, and they're noticably less armored.

post transformations and someone please post Ginga, I don't have the webm handy

I miss the mahou shoujo project general. They were great.

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DELET

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Things improved.

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Guys.
I heard you liked edgy magical girls.

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Remember: always trust an Elf. They are your friends.

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Randomly watched that at some point, was surprised at the random edge.

AROUND ELVES

Swim Swim did nothing wrong

Did Yuuki Yuuna copy Madoka? They're are way too many similarities.
>similar color schemes
>yuri undertones between the pink hair and black hair characters
>pink is MC
>dark haired character has a dark past
>pink hair saves dark hair from her past, and their relationship stems off of this
>one of pink/black pair sacrifices them self in order to save the world, the other partner reciprocates and saves the other from their initial sacrifice, but this time the saving was better
>asspull endings that gave a character powers without any foreshadowing (devil homu and heterochromia yuuna)

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To be fair, if I suddenly wake up one day with a world-ending magical power, the first thing I would do is probably not about love and hope, but obliterating that faggot who kept annoying me throughout the year

People always seem to forget about Uta Kata. There were good "Dark," "Edgy," and "Mature" Mahou Shoujo before Madoka and MahoIku came along.

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You'll have to wait for the mahou shoujo equivalent of this.

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Fuck man I just want a "mahou shoujo and mahou shounen wreck shit/go adventuring" show. Can either be a duo or a full team.

Nanoha could've pulled it off perfectly AND even keep the yuri, but NOPE.

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>Nanoha could've pulled it off perfectly AND even keep the yuri
They still can if they get around to adapting Force into an anime.

>Forced animation

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Since when is yuyuyu even slightly edgy? i haven't read the novels but the only thing that happened was that girl losing her eyesight wasn't it?

Except it was gay.

Different colors are the usual animu thing. Fuck that. YYY copied Evangelion.