Why are female characters in shonen often useless, irrelevant (Sakura, Orihime, Ochako,...) or annoying Mary Sue (Erza...

erza is made for bondage

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because as soon as they're not useless and irrelevant, retards call female characters mary sues

>Erina
>Mary Sue

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Do you know what the word shonen even means?

pic related BTFOs your argument you fag

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Clearly you don't

Shonen is for young boys. No 8 year old boy wants to see a girl beat the big bad.

it's the same with male characters

replace left with Deku and right with Goku and you get the same shit

Emmas not a mary sue

fpbp
/thread

Noelle is the ultimate Stacy main girl character.

Radiant female characters are fucking great though.

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Youichi fought aizen a little bit, trained ichigo for like one chapter and then fucked off and did jackshit

but yeah Rukie a best

Honestly most female characters in shounen are about as good as the men and they actually manage to make them likeable and useful for the most part.
It hink the only one that truly sticks out is Sakura because of how shitty, annoying and useless she is.
She gives female shounen characters a bad reputation.

Sakura is one of the most realistic and true-to-life anime characters ever created. Kishimoto should be applauded.

Garbage meme waifu.

Bias. Shonenfags tend to be brainlets who judge character value based on how hard they punch or how big their number is or some shit, rather than what they actually contribute. Ultimately Sakura's stronger suit was as a medic than as a melee fighter, kind of like Orihime. You can say supporting roles are stereotypically "feminine" (but they means they are for a reason), but they're not unimportant. Super strength easily becomes less worthwhile when you have Sakura compared to the two demigods that are her companions, who force everyone else into lesser roles.

But if you want satisfying characters, try Yozakura Quartet, where practically every character is based. Or Sengoku Youko. Or Full Metal Alchemist. Basically try something where the creator clearly loves their characters.

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>Why are female... useless, irrelevant... or annoying
art imitating life

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Watch Black Clover.

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Maybe if you put a bag over Noelle's head.

she's just erza

Black Clover thankfully has 2 sides of the same coin. Mimosa is a healer but is never useless. Noelle is a powerhouse able to compete with the 2 demigods Asta and Yuno.

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Because she's erza

Tried to but the MC voice annoyed the shit out of.me in the first episode so I dropped it

Most female characters in shounen suffer from being designed as nothing more than love interests and supporting characters. They aren't there to be main fighters or to be significant contributors to the plot.

Take Ochako for example. She's just there to be a girl for Deku to have a crush on, and occasionally offer him some moral support. Maybe make some small contribution every once in a while. That's why despite being theoretically the main heroine she's so disengaged from the plot, and has such a shortage of development for both her character and her powers. That's why she along with most of the other girls were shoved off screen during the Yakuza arc, Deki, Kirishima, and a bunch of newly introduced characters got to show off. She's just kind of there, while not being allowed to make major contributions or have heavy involvement in the plot.

Noelle is the best girl in shonen imo
Mostly because she’s never useless, and doesn’t easily trump her troubles

The next time WSJ commissions an artist to draw a female character color spread, Noelle will probably be in the front beside Nami and Ochunko.

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>Most female characters in shounen suffer from being designed as nothing more than love interests and supporting characters. They aren't there to be main fighters or to be significant contributors to the plot.
This, and if they are main fighters/contribute to the plot then they are never as strong nor do they stay important the whole way through like their male counterparts. Take Rukia for example, despite being the other MC of Bleach, her importance peaked during the SS arc. She wasn't connected to the bigger plot at hand in any of the remaining arcs, and her paneltime dropped. Luckily she got a major fight in every arc, and her story was wrapped up nicely, but she still wasn't treated like second MC like say Sasuke was in Naruto.

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Rukia is cute! CUTE!

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She sure is. It's only natural that she has an absolute 10/10 QT daughter.

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A common tradition that young boys are not interested in seeing girls fight (unless it's against another girl).

If that is actually representative of the audience or an outdated standard I'll never know as I don't live in Japan and I especially don't interact with young Japanese boys.

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>young boys
Most shounen jump readers are girls. Authors are just lazy.

Yeah, that's true too. It's unusual to have a female character like Erza who starts the series being billed as strong, and gets to stay true to that throughout instead of being quickly surpassed and falling into irrelevance.

Unironically true. Like, they had an actual survey that has shown that half of WSJ's readers are girls. Authors do acknowledge this with occasional male fanservice too. They have no excuse to continue with this bullshit

Ochaco isn't really useless though. She hasn't had to overly rely on anyone and usually provides a decent amount of support with her quirk in any situation she's involved in. During the Sports festival she also did quite well and only lost against Bakugo because of how strong he is.

I really do wish they hadn't turned all the female fighters in dragon ball Into house wives.

The problem with Erza is that her powerset is so limited, author just has to make up reasons for her to win.
>All bones broken, but can still launch herself and destroy a meteor

That's not the problem. The problem is that Ochako and most of her female cohorts are underutilized. That's why she's branded "useless"

>They have no excuse to continue with this bullshit
Of course they do. SJ authors generally aren't interested in drawing girls getting beat up especially by the hero, and don't think that their readers are interested in seeing girls get beat up by guys. Thus you get a bunch of MCs who never fight a girl, sometimes explicitly won't fight girls, and a bunch of female characters who only fight other female characters. Or they can avoid that mess by not having female characters fight at all.

The sports festival was ages ago, and it was essentially the last serious battle she got to have with her quirk. Everything else has been against fodder, off panel, or her winning with some martial arts skill she picked up in a week of internship.

That makes no sense.
>Everything else has been against fodder
Bane wasn't fodder the next bit is you saying "it doesnt count" like a dumbasd

Yet nobody will honestly say she's a good female character and that goes for every female character in FT.

Erza's powerset isn't limited. It's in fact too varied as being known to have a fuck ton of armors with various effects should let her deal with almost any situation. The result was that everytime that she pulled out a new armor, people bitched and moaned about asspulls and her having an appropriate armor, to the point that Mashima gave up and had her just be a sword fighter most of the time. Which of course lead to people forgetting that she's a fucking wizard with more than enough raw power to destroy a meteor, she just lacks decent ranged attacks to deliver it.

>useless
>Ochako
Thread off to a good start.

Go back to Yea Forums.

>The problem is that Ochako and most of her female cohorts are underutilized
She's been a player in every major arc in the series

Ding-ding-ding

>Or Full Metal Alchemist
That's not a good example either.

>That makes no sense.
Sakura's branded as useless even though she's the strongest female ninja in the village. It's the same thing

>player
The only major role she's played up to this point is the Sports Festival

>Sakura's branded as useless even though she's the strongest female ninja in the village.
She's not. Also she's branded useless because her contributions to the plot tends to highlight her ineffectiveness as a character its even more embarrassing when Kishi actually tried to make her into a badass but just made her worse as a person. So no its not the sane thing.

>The only major role she's played up to this point is the Sports Festival
Wrong again dumbass

Ochako by definition is not useless. She's starks a good balance between someone who tries hard and is strong without being sue and is the only student next to Deku to give Bakugou a hard time. The problem is that people will downplay her accomplishments whenever they get the chance.

>So no its not the sane thing.
You just lengthened the word underutilized

>Wrong again dumbass
Mhm, are Ochako defenders previously Sakura defenders

How the hell was Erza useless??!! I don't find her to be a "Mary Sue" either. Literally she was a slave, wasn't she? I don't think past slaves have the ability to be considered "Mary Sues"..

You are supposed to read the Manga you stupid faggot

Sasuke was Naruto's rival though and that kept him relevant. They're competing against each other, one moment he's an ally, the next he's an enemy, back and forth. Rukia was in a Botan-like role at the start, but just like that manga things changed. She was put in a situation traditionally reserved for love interest but not being one, she meandered as just another ally in Ichigo's entourage.
True, boys generally don't care about/for competing with girls and competition is a huge aspect of these series. Cooperation is as well but male camaraderie is also more emphasized than friendships between the sexes.
There sure is, this is shonen manga. Bakuman explained this already. If many of those girls had their way, it would be shoujo/fujoshit in no time. Honestly people can clamor for more action-oriented shoujo manga to fill their palette, rather than come to media explicitly for males and complain about some "sexism" non-issue.

All the girls in black clover are champs
The shonen curse of shit females has been lifted!

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desu shoujo doesn't have good female protagonists either

Because Japs aren't cucks to the point where clearly male dominated mediums must have "STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS" be it realistic or not.

1st TV & movies, then games, and soon even male-targeted western porn will have nothing but strong female characters

GG westerncucks

Every shonenfag needs to take the black Clover pill. It actually executes every shonen trope as it should be, including making the heroine actually useful without being a Mary Sue.

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shonen is lite BL that girls read to enjoy cute boys. female characters should be irrelevant. that's for shows that moe kimo butas are wanking over.

Pretty sure, everything about Black Clover is trash

>heroine actually useful without being a Mary Sue.
Top kek

Hi, Emma Mary Sue (I'm a Mary Sue)

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>She's just there to be a girl for Deku to have a crush on, and occasionally offer him some moral support
Her crush on Deku is just one aspect of her character

>Maybe make some small contribution every once in a while.
She's literally saved Deku's life on numerous occasions.

>You just lengthened the word underutilized
No You're just wrong.
>Mhm, are Ochako defenders previously Sakura defenders
You don't have a fucking stance. You just want to shitpost. That's why its easy to destroy your arguments because you don't want to make a point.

I like how virtually nobody takes anything BCfags say seriously

As it should be.

Eruza is manly. But she got soft spot in her heart for all things girly. She is just conditioned to be manly. Not really a Mary Sue at all. Despite being shonen there really are no Jack Stu or Mary Sue characters.

Only thing is that all female characters are sexy as hell.

If the female characters are bad, it's not worth watching or reading. If an author is too much of an otaku to be able to write someone from the other 50% of the population, you'd be better off finding an author who doesn't write women like they've never seen one in their life.

>That's why its easy to destroy your arguments because you don't want to make a point.
This is your whole point btw - "No You're just wrong."
Sakura is useless because she's underutilized as a character. The reason why her actions make her look bad whenever Kishi tried, is because it wasn't a regular occurrence. Now do you get why? Faggot.

No she is a Mary Sue and a poorly written character.

I don't think Mary Sue would be victim multiple times and be second to MC.

>This is your whole point btw - "No You're just wrong."
Nah you ate wrong because nothing you stated is supported by fact and you only made the comparison because Sakura isn't well liked thinking no one would call you out on your bullshit.
>Sakura is useless because she's underutilized as a character
Sakura isn't underutilized at all. Kishimoto tried hard to make her a badass and backfired because she was so unlikable and regressed as a character. Go look up what underutilized means you dumb bitch.

>How to shut up every FTfag

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>Sakura defender frothing at the mouth
Name a more iconic pair

>nothing you stated is supported by fact
Sakura's last great feat that's agreed upon unanimously was when she fought Sasori with Chiyo, true or false?
That's why she's underutilized.

Yeah that would eliminate 99.9% of manga.

>No argument
Thanks for wasting everyone's time shitposter-kun

Oh please regale me with the tales of Sakura

>Sakura's last great feat that's agreed upon unanimously was when she fought Sasori with Chiyo, true or false?
She fought alongside Naruto and Sasuke in the final battle in case your dumbass forget

Come on...

It's just a joke. Got to admit I really don't know from where she got all this power from but probably through sheer determination and trauma. So it kinda justifies her character. It's not like she was just born with it.

Ochako lacks screen time to be relevant.

Holy shit, it's like I was right. She was underutilized.

Ezra wasn't published by jump so she didn't have to be a shitty generic strong but not really female.

Nah you're still wrong
Nope

Erza lost plenty of times. Mashima in general is more open minded than other male writers.

Literally bestgirl of the last decade

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>no
>nope
>nah
Oh it's Jimbo

Sakurafags, haven't you have enough being btfo already? There's no point blaming Kishimoto's ineptitude for writing females.

>Erza lost plenty of times
No she didn't

Problem is that there isn't a standard for female characters in shounen since they all play the same role and if you're going to criticize one or the other you'll look like a hypocrite.

Shoujo girls are even worse. Their entire lives revolve around their love interests.

Because lot of nips aren't interested in females fighting. They're also quite traditional and believe that men and women are different things. They are't wrong, though. Fuck you westerncucks for trying to force your shitty gender culture to everyone

She got pretty much raped. Only fairy tail character to go through that.

Only thing you should be focused on that the author is perverted fuck and ever since selling his soul to Satan for talent to draw sexy women he has done so without a break. Compare his earlier work to fairy tail, just pitiful attempts of drawing sexy characters and then suddenly.

>She got pretty much raped.
It was literally fanservice

So...?

Why Sakura is so hated in the west?

She was the most popular female character in Japan.

Having her have counters or convenient manners of defeating her villain of the arc isn't her main sin. It's the fact they escalate every single fight she has to put her in a grieve disadvantage but have her win most of them in asinine ways. It's like the writer kept trying to one up her last fight in order to make her appear all the more cooler and stronger than she was previously.

This is most apparent starting from Erza vs Azuma. Which is ironic considering asspulls aside that was the last good fight she had that made a lot of narrative sense and good back and forth in both the manga and anime.

> Erza vs Minerva vs Kagura [I know she fights them both 1v1 but that's especially when it gets ludicrous]
> Erza vs Kyoka
> Erza vs Irene

Erza vs Ajeel could be argue to be put in the escalation pot but ironically enough it's one of the few good fights she has where it doesn't end with the Red samurai pants of plot armor. Or I beat you cause I have friends/believe in myself. She actually won using her head, having back up and honestly...I always got the feeling Ajeel was nothing special if fucking elfman and lisanna working together can defeat him.

I'm not counting the other Mirvena fights cause honestly those are a joke and only serve to waste time outside of building on Mirvena's character.

And the Avatar arc was essentially the Fishman Island of FT so who cares honestly.

There's also her team fight with Neinhart but I didn't count that cause she was barely a factor in that fight and only serves as the means for Jellal and Kagura to kiss and make up while defeating Neinhart.

Also not counting the filler fights or mook stuff like Erza vs 100 demons in the great magic games.

Japan's women's rights are poor. It's like expecting Muslims to think women as equal

Hey it took some time for Christians to think that way, cut younger generation of retards some slack. Ahuehuehue....

Gotta love how selective people are when it comes to 'realism' in their Chinese cartoons

>bringing up Sakura, who isn't actually useless but just has a different role than the others
Can you see the flaw in your argument now?

And it's only happening to male dominated media. The female dominated media go on as usual, filled with all the stuff cucks and feminists claim to hate in spades. They get their stronk womyn power fantasies on the male side while getting the fantasies of vulnerability on the other. It's kinda like Sakura's character, smack around the orange faggot and then melt for the edgy douche. Starting to think these girls "hated" her the same way anime fans "hate" "beta" self-insert, they identify too much for comfort and will still do it to have their wishes fulfilled.

Primitive peoples haven't developed the ability to lie to themselves like that.

most of it came from part 1 where she was both useless as fuck and had a shitty attitude. It looked like she was getting better at the start of part 2 but it was a fakeout and by the end she was still an annoying bitch with dumb motivations. A genuinely terrible character that made thw series worse when she was on screen for the most part.

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>smack around the orange faggot and then melt for the edgy douche
Roasties only want CHADs

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they only exist for waifu fodder otherwise they're garbage. that's why i laugh when fags try to whiteknight for shonenshit waifus so badly.

Soul Eater

You need to have some realistic elements, even in a fantasy story, in order to ground the setting and not break suspension of disbelief too hard.
Faggot.

If that's true than people suggesting that they should change in order to attract an audience that is already attracted to begin with are pretty retarded.

And you should kill yourself, you subversive piece of shit.

The only country that manages to have women who produce decent content.
Maybe we should join them on the path of truth.

It's not about audience attraction, it's about characters and story not being shit, which is what every self-respecting author should care about

>girls are reading Shonen Jump
>people don't really care about Shoujo magazines

All this tells me is that no-one cares for romance drama when friendship, victory and punching cunts in the face are in your manga.

Orihime never pretended to be anything more than a healer and never gave speeches about "being on their same level"

girls who read shounen only care about the cute boys/yaoi ships

wasn't she like 15th or so in the popularity polls? Iruka was more liked despite him never doing anything

>this is what japanese actuallu believe in

>Despite being shonen there really are no Jack Stu or Mary Sue characters.
What the fuck do you call Natsu then? The only development he ever gets is having Gildarts beat his ass and make him realise he's not invincible. And then immediately after that, he asspulls some "second magic vessel" to beat a God Slayer he had no possibility of actually beating and proceeds to be unbeatable and infallible for the rest of the fucking series.

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She is there because her hole. She was made to be the girl of the group and never developed beyond that. She was so blank that the author had to use other character, Tsunade, to make Sakura relevant again.

Orihime was pretty relevant mind you...as a damsel, but she's still the primary motivation for Hueco Mundo.

But when you look at Shonen's most common character archetypes; the hero, the rival/best friend, the hero's mentor, and the villain, they are typically males.

Every character beyond the above is generally a supporting character with varying levels of relevance, regardless of gender. And it just so happens that most females occupy this position.

Very rarely do you see a female occupy any of the above positions, and If they do, it tends to be in a lower capacity than their Male counterparts.

If they were just supporting characters with occasional screentime, that's fine. But I feel the frustration comes from being treated like secondary characters despite being billed and promoted as main characters; Ochako is on about as much promotion as Deku, or Bakugo but hardly does anything...it creates a cognitive dissonance.

There you go.

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Well. I would agree with you 100% if it was not for the fact that he is a demon. So basically no matter how powerful he gets, he was created to be that way only to be a bad person and for one single purpose.

I think it's rather soul crushing realization and quite anti-Gary Stu. Still he is really Gary Stu-ish

But he's not a bad person despite being a demon. In fact, the revelation that he's a demon doesn't develop his character at all, he barely has a moment of doubt or anything. It's just same character, different arc. Immediately after he discovers that Zeref is his brother, he goes off and takes on a powerful army by himself AGAIN. Natsu is one of the worst Gary Stus I've seen in recent memory.

>shooting fireballs doean’t break the immersion
>a WOMEN shooting fireballs ruins the entire series
Neat

Didn't finish manga so I do not know what will happen. Basically it is his destiny to kill a person. Sole purpose of his existence. Like if every cell in his body was screaming to do this.

I'd imagine Gary Stu be just awesome and choosing his own destiny. Not being slave to anything. Probably that will become of Natsu but it's shonen so.

Should I watch BC? It looks interesting but everyone says it is shit

You clearly don't know what Mary Sue means then

ESL-kun, just read a summary of the ending. You'll realise that not only is Natsu the ultimate Gary Stu, but you'll realise that you should have stopped reading after the Laxus arc.

Just off the top of my head, she's been captured by Tartaros and lost to Neinhart

Erza is the ideal Shonen woman.

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Are you upset, onahole-san?

>watch
Never fucking do that
If you care to check it out at all then read the manga

Why do you care? You aren't a woman

Erza has to make up for the sins of Erza and Orihime, so this is fair extremism.

Women are only good for three things: cooking, cleaning and vaginas.

>Orihime never pretended to be anything more than a healer and never gave speeches about "being on their same level"
Exactly this. Orihime wanted to fight, but eventually realized she wasn't cut out for it. Her thing was shielding and healing.

She really is

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Very cryptic. But I'll believe you. I was never really impressed with Fairy Tail. Just that it has long character lore behind it and sexy people.

>Erza has to make up for the sins of Erza

It's sinful to be so beautiful!

I am filthy and I don't fuck anyone. I make good home kitchen Chinese food though

You know what men are only good for? Dick and money.

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You're also new to internet.
youtube.com/watch?v=qqXi8WmQ_WM

I am old hag. True witch of computer store. Susan Wojcicki is my bitch.

Erza is best girl!

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because shonen fags think they are only allowed to like one show and shit on any other
it can start kinda slow but its pretty fucking good when it picks up, the only real hurdle for the anime is getting over asta's voice

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Bane? Who? You mean the Yakuza dude she helped fight, where 95% of the fight was off panel? And her big known contribution was to float him to help move him. Yeah, you're damn right it doesn't count. Most of the battle falls into the "off panel" category, and Ochako essentially didn't fight him as all the actual fighting was done by the pro-hero. Just compare that to the fights that Tamaki, Kirishima, and Fat Gum got.

>bcfags are getting shit on in the official print sales thead so they have to shill their manga here

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Do you think the target audience could handle seeing a girl being more competent than a fellow little boy?

Black Clover is a generic shonen with no new ideas and it has terrible writing not worth your time.

Erza gets shit for that one meme page but Natsu was much worse. Everyone in FT asspulled.

Erza was said to be one of the strongest from the start and stayed as such. She also wasn’t trying to fuck the MC or his rival and had her own love interest

>Shonen called Naruto
>Why is Sakura useless

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Wait a fucking second, why was my post deleted in any fucking way, the character already appeared in the anime even if we assume the mod went full retarded.

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Yeah probably.

Radiant is one of the best shonen out there and a perfect example of "female characers in shonen that are not useless".

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she's shonen female done right, for sure

shame there's no scientifically accurate diagrams of her to advance research

Erza isn't useless.

All girls deserve to be beaten

>Erza isn't useless.
Yet she isn't called a good female character like say Rukia.

Realism.

And literally flawless and everyone who dislikes her (if any) either gets cinverted to love her or get blasted to oblivion

Black Clover's awful animation is really grating. Also, they are supposed to be wizards right? Why are they fighting like Bleach characters? It's the same shit but with magic is just lazy ass writing.

Because you hate women and want to murder them and rape their corpses.
Just like everyone else on Yea Forums.

Erza was great until Mashima started inserting her into degrading light pornography he subjected every other female of the cast to.

She was a genuinely likeable character up until that point. Then she became nothing but fap bait to gauge how low the manga was sinking in either popularity charts or sales, so Mashima would have to degrade her further in the next chapter showing her half naked for no reason.

Shonen characters are always like that user. Gender plays no part in how one-note the vast majority of them are.

So like every other villian in FT?

This is true, Mashima doesn't know what to do with Erza anymore

The fact that this are the kind of stories sold to chicks is safe to asume that's what they are all about.

Shoujo is what convinced me that women love abusive assholes.

All of the girls in FT are fapbait user.

Yes, and? Thats what they are all about. Are you seriously expecting something else?

He was replying to someone saying "WATCH BC", for someone who insults others for not reading you sure lack reading skills.

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>Confusing being overpowered with being a Mary-Sue.

Not this shit again.

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Making a manga about a girl being the best would be shit tough, women don't like aiming for the top.

How is it any different in female-led shows? Men there are either useless or villains and not just in anime.

Because they're women.

Witch Craft Works?

Just because your chick self insert isn't kicking everyone asses and is not used as much as you want does not make her underutilized.

>She was the most popular female character in Japan
That's just about the most damning thing you could say about her

> women don't like aiming for the top.

Aim for the top is the literal translation of the title of this show.

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If women were to weak to do anything by themselves through all of history is your fault, nobody cares about women in fantasy, not even women.

All women are shit. Real and fictional.

Lol you are a minority, most women are more interested in shipping and other shit rather than "character judgement".

Fiction isn't real life.

Your mom is shit!

I mean... you just implied that...

I'll save you some time. MC is sad he can't use magic, then suddenly it turns out he can use magic: Anti-magic.

Sounds like Deku.

Which is why they are both shit characters.

Anti Magic is not magic lmao

It's also a problem with fighting shonen and the escalation of powerlevels. In real life, even in fighting and war settings, other things are important too. A single guy can't beat an entire army, no matter how good he is, so irl soldiers need lots of kinds of support. A leader isn't always picked solely by their military might, if a guy super strong wanted to be the king of all the world on the basis of being the strongest, the second and third strongest ones would merely join together and take him down. Charisma and empathy, things important for leadership, intelligence, dexterity, and almost every other skillset that it's important irl, anyway, becomes useless in a world with characters that can blow off a country with a sneeze. In the end, only fighters end up being relevant, and there is a prejudice against female fighter characters (which is undoubtedly rooted in real life, where there's almost no culture with notable female fighters because even if a woman can totally fight and be competent at it, the truth is that even in the modern world there's a difference between the physical capabilities of a woman and a man that makes men more efficient fighters. This also makes authors that introduce a female fighter get very obsessed with proving how good she is, which leans towards making them Mary Sues.

If I had to pick an example where this issue was avoided, I would be tempted to pick One Piece, that managed to avoid the trap by giving a non fighting role that is still vital to a female character, but Oda has kinda dropped the ball with Nami and basically all the straw hats but Luffy and One Piece is getting to the point where powerlevels have scaled too much and made other things irrelevant. Considering that most fighting shonen generally uses some magic system and a power source that's not purely physical, depending on the setting they could more or less ignore the issue anwyay.

>he can use magic
no, he can't.
Not unless it's somebody else's

>They aren't there to be main fighters or to be significant contributors to the plot.
To be fair, in every fighting shonen, the number of characters that actually affect the plot can be counted with the fingers on one hand. Boku no Hero is an extreme example, besides Deku and All Might the other heroes seem incredibly irrelevant, like they don't have an existence of their own.

Most shonenfags and writers all feel the need to self-insert in the MC.

>W-WE'RE IMPORTANT
Is this stealth healsluts coping thread.
No one takes you fags seriously.

FT proved that shounenfags will sit through boring female centric fights and dialogue if the females in question are all absolute bombshells.

>She was the most popular female character in Japan.
Nope

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implying orihime and uraraka are useless

Why are female fights such shit?

well said

is that an image from the anime?

>Bane? Who? You mean the Yakuza dude she helped fight, where 95% of the fight was off panel?
The fight was shown you fucking retard and he was the strongest of the percepts.

>and her big known contribution was to float him to help move him.
She not only beat him but he saved his life.

> Just compare that to the fights that Tamaki, Kirishima, and Fat Gum got.
Well for one the girls actually accomplished their mission unlike the guys who got defeated.

Was Kushina popular too? Is this poll before or after she was introduced?

Yup. Beach episode

Gender roles
Rotten tropes
Editorial mandate
Japan's horrific misuse of the term ''Heroine''
Sticking to their comfort zone and fetishization of it

Take your pick.

she is, i love both her and orihime

Sakura placed higher in majority of the polls though. Hinata popularity peaked when she won while Sakura has a dedicated fanbase, especially back in nipland.

Usually because they are low stakes. Erza is probably the only female in battle shounen history that actually managed to look badass while fighting (during her fight with Jellal.)

Tamaki, Kirishima, and Fat Gum won their fights

>Ultimately Sakura's stronger suit was as a medic than as a melee fighter, kind of like Orihime
While the medic role is important, Naruto is a great example in that even female characters with other powersets, like Ino, ended up relegated to merely being the medic, and it was never emphasized how important the medic was because in the end it was just Naruto and Sasuke hurling giant genkidamas to each other and destroying both the world and any kind of ninja inspiration the setting had (considering that ninjas had a very ample skillset besides fighting).

>Erza is probably the only female in battle shounen history that actually managed to look badass while fighting
Oh please.

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>Boku no Hero is an extreme example, besides Deku and All Might the other heroes seem incredibly irrelevant, like they don't have an existence of their own.
Not only are their arcs in which Deku and All Might aren't the focus, All Might in general has taken a backseat in general, but you've outed yourself that you don't even read the manga,

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Pic unrelated right?

number?

>Orihime
>made out to be the white mage
>manga flat out says she can't fight and she's better at healing and defense

Gee, it's like you forget context OP

>Sakura placed higher in majority of the polls though.
Because they weren't that many characters back then and Hinata beat her before in the 3rd poll. She fell hard as the series went on and the final tally poll in the series had Hinata with more overall votes than her.

>Beats Soi Fon

Way to forget that part

It's the way the world has evolved. When there's a conflict between two societies, men ussually either fight and die, or become second class men to the victors' society. Women, on the other hand, become a part of the new society and have to integrate, after having the men near them wiped out. So, they developed a sense of belonging to the strongest, while men, who have to either fight or lose everything, develop a stronger sense of duty. In the end, since the men's sense of duty is rooted in the selfish desire to not lose everything, none of them are particularly upstanding.

This

Kirishma lost and Tamaki passed out. Ochako not only defeated the percenpt she saved Deku ande Nighteye from dying

>Erza is probably the only female in battle shounen history that actually managed to look badass while fighting
This is a joke right? Not only does she have the worst fights in the manga but you never see her well-regarded as a female character in anything/.

Thanks for the obvious, Captain.

I've read it up until the training arc between class A and B started. If Endeavor's plot and Hawks' Departed adventure goes anywhere, I would have to admit you're right, but right now everything done by secondary characters turned out to be irrelevant. No need to be so defensive, it's not like I said it was trash.

I wish that was true user.

>If Endeavor's plot and Hawks' Departed adventure goes anywhere,
This is yet more proof that your dumbass don't read the manga. Also what a stupidass thing to knock a story for that the main characters are the focus. No fucking shit.

All I'm saying is that the aesthetic was cool. You don't see many female characters go beserk on people. That's kind of a male thing. At least in shounenshit.

>tfw healslut main character

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The problem is that Gorino is also the son of Dio Brando and techincally Johnathan Joestar. He has the Joestar family bloodline pumping through his veins.

Orihime isn't a character like that and therefore only serves as the main cast's white mage.

Sakura is useless because he was pushed to be more than just a healer (Tsunade parallels combined with her being taught super strength by Tsunade) causes her to be absolutely useless for 95% of the run.

It's that easy to trigger herofags? I understand now why do you get bullied so much. I started to read it when it had less than 10 chapters and was dumped here and hailed as the next great thing, and it didn't live to the expectations that we had, so I'm guess I'm a little jaded. Anyway, there's a difference between the main characters being the focus, and the entire world feeling like nothing else is going on but mc's life, like if everything is merely a prop for the mc's actions, a videogame where every character but the MC is a bot waiting to be interacted with. To be honest, it's not like Bnha sinks that deep, it's not an isekai, but it's still pretty weak in that regard. No point in trying to make you understand that since you just want to be butthurt.

>Orihime isn't a character like that and therefore only serves as the main cast's white mage
It's funny that Orihime has basically the same power than Josuke (or at least both were explained as returning things to a previous state, at least if I remember the bleach subs right and they didn't fuck it up), but they're so different.

Anyway, I just posted Giorno because he's always accused of being a passive mc, to the point of considering Bruno the real mc.

Bakumsn is a misogynistic pile of trash.

Again, Josuke has the Joestar bloodline pumping through his veins. That's the difference!

Orihime is just a normal girl who had abusive parents that the brother took away from. Josuke is the bastard child of fucking JOSEPH JOESTAR and is part of the Joestar family line.

Josuke does more than "return to a previous state". He manipulates matter, he fused that guy with a rock

the anime reached chapter 176? or does she use it earlier than that? (haven't watched the whole show yet, but i saw that chapter 176 looks like it's the introduction of this power)

Because you are not the target audience i.e. a Japanese teen.

isn't it some french or something comic?

Sounds like someone hasn't watched Recca no Honoo (the superior YYH)

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Is battle shoujo ever going to take off?

Ochako didn't defeat the Precept. The pro-hero Ryukyu defeated him. Nejire, Tsuyu, and Ochako's contributions were to help move him from one point of the battlefield to above where the fight with Overhaul was occurring.

Magical girls genre is battle shoujo.

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>nuh-uh!!
This is what happens when you're a mha brainlet

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You're calling Ochako useless? The girl who can control gravity? Useless? And has yet to show her true potential?

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I know exactly where that image is. I wish it was more fat though

Mahou shoujo is boring and has shit villains.

The problem is that her powers aren't being used properly.

Orihime's powers for example are rejection and defense. She has a slight attack but it's very weak and more for self defense. Kisuke flat out states that she isn't meant for fighting.

Ochako on the other hand has the power of gravity itself. She should at least going full blown Kat from Gravity Rush yet she never improves.

They aren't comparable though. Mahou shoujoshit rarely has training arcs or (plot relevant) male characters

You're not the target audience and you should GTFO. Yea Forums is a board for little girls.

How are love interests of each girl not plot relevant?

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The thing is, she's still only 15. We aren't even deep into what MHA has in store. It's still far too early to make a judgement on her power. At the moment her power comes with a crutch, motion sickness. She can't be OP like Todoroki, because Todoroki doesn't really have a power crutch.

>She fought alongside Naruto and Sasuke in the final battle in case your dumbass forget
>Broke the ground then immediately had to be saved from a mini-tentail while she turned back to boast.
>Charged Madara without setting up a plan with Naruto and Sasuke, probably got impaled and needed to be saved.
>Great feats.

Eh, Kat from Gravity Rush still got her memory erased and thought she was a 15 year old girl too and yet she was still able to get great powers.

I find it odd that after so long she isn't using her powers more effectively after all this time.

which episode, is im asking

True, female characters are ALWAYS useless or annoying in shoujo.

See, the problem is that MHA has no interest in developing her or her power. We're over 200 chapters into the series, and she's still at "makes stuff float" just with less motion sickness. The series would rather she throw convenient debris at enemies, or beat them with "Gunhead martial arts" than develop her power or give her equipment that does more than mitigate her motion sickness. If the series cared half a much about improving her powers as it does about the guys, she'd be able to do shit like freely float herself and fly around with jets, or be able to control the direction of gravity instead of just cancelling it, or even just some offensive gear that takes advantage of her quirk.

This.

Where is the power to throw shit around?
Where is the ability of Gravity Kick?
Where is the ability of Gravity Drill
Where is Gravity slide?
Where is the ability to orbit objects around her like a shield?

She hasn't been growing whatsoever. At least Orihime's powers grow with the rejection and defense abilities.

because people suck at writing good characters, its why male characters in shounen are often naive, edgy, or blank slate meant for self-insertion.

Why does pink hair make my peepee hard? Will gene editing allow us to have any hair color we want in the future?

Looks like op bait woke up every poltard lurking on /a

i stop reading fairy tale a long time ago but i do remember she lost against luxus and plenty other time

just use dye

this this and this

You mean visual novels. Right?

Does anyone on this thread know what a marry/garry sue is ?

>can't handle realism

Kishimoto stopped doing popularity polls after the first arc of Shippuuden.

you people are vastly overestimating the limits and applications of her power. It's not real gravity, it's just the ability to make stuff weightless and it has concrete conditions that restrict it like the release dropping everything instead of just a select few things

It's what I call any character I dislike or a competent female character, right?

Go back to redit edgy underage

this

>She was the most popular female character in Japan.
That's not true and you know it. She's just not as widely hated.

Sure pol-kun whatever you say

this

Can pass dye onto your lineage user

Stay mad, tumblrina.

No it wont there is no mutation who could turn you hair pink or purple.
Same thing for the eyes

So shonen writers aren't doing anything wrong.

Do the nip women that read WSJ even care about the female characters not being as strong/important as the male characters?

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Girls who read WSJ aren't a uniform group. I guess the fujo ones don't give a flying duck.

And if her power was actually being developed by the series, those limits and applications would be expanding and the restrictions reducing. Just look at the MC of the Vigilantes spin off. He starts the series with his power being just "glide along the ground while touching it at three points, with a max speed being around that of a bicycle". Yet as the series goes on it becomes clear that most of those limits are because he never got a chance to practice with his quirk and test it's limits, and his quirk is far more versatile with far more potential than it's first presented. Ochako doesn't get even half that sort of consideration. Even Iida gets "pull out old mufflers, get new ones that let him go faster for much, much longer". Ochako? It's still "less motion sickness, float debris, Gunhead martial arts".

Because you have a limited idea of what shonen is.

Pretty sure they're aware they are reading manga for boys and they come for what shonen manga has to offer. It's Westerncucks demanding something conform to their ideology.

I'ts an anime.

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I'm 99% sure that the women that read the WSJ do it for the fujoshipping.

Female characters being useless or downright ruining everything is completely fine, but its silly when the framing is that they're somehow competent but everything points at the opposite.
Female heavy action titles like Symphogear, Re-Creators, Bubuki Buranki, Cross Ange and Yuki Yuna is a Hero have no problem with good female characters, so there's no reason that the typical shonen titles can't pull it off.

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Frankly from all cancer comunity i met the shippers were probably the less cancer.
At least they'r not agressive and even if they'r retarded they'r usually pretty nice

>Re-Creators
>good characters
>good anything

The real problem is shit villains. Not one of those shows has a villain that isn't trash.

You can't just shit on Doctor Ver like that.
Shameful!

well, yeah, but he's still restricted to do it in the middle of "fixing" stuff, he can only mix two things that are broken (fortunately he can break them with CD's fists). Orihime also had a weird description, now that I think so it was more along the lines of healing by "rejecting the fact that they were hurt in first place", which sounds like the description of a super broken stand. It was just a way to justify why Aizen would go to such lenghts to capture her I guess.

Yes obviously, though it should be noted that the other regular humans that get powers are nearly as useless as her, and maybe even less plot relevant.

Ochako isn't any less relevant than most of the male characters though, that series just suffers of a huge cast of not very important characters.
And there are cases like One Piece where romance does not exist and the female characters are on par with the male characters.

She's certainly the first time I find myself liking the rich tsundere type of girl too.

Not always abusive assholes but generally alpha or high status.
animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2017-02-18/shojo-manga-expert-uses-statistics-to-reveal-what-girls-truly-want/.112342

Enjoy your retard determinator characters dying then.

>It's that easy to trigger herofags?
Nah but its easy to trigger people who hate it considering you get butthurt whenever anyone praises it for anything.

>. Anyway, there's a difference between the main characters being the focus, and the entire world feeling like nothing else is going on but mc's life, like if everything is merely a prop for the mc's actions, a videogame where every character but the MC is a bot waiting to be interacted with.
And this isn't true at all hell the fucking current arc had the most progression to the plot and world AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DEKU. So what the fuck are you talking about? Do you just love being wrong all the fucking time and then try to pass it off as fans being aggressive when you look stupid?

>Ochako didn't defeat the Precept.
She did.

>Ochako's contributions were to help move him from one point of the battlefield to above where the fight with Overhaul was occurring
Wrong. He was about to kill Deku and Nighteye when they dropped and interrupted him

>And if her power was actually being developed by the series, those limits and applications would be expanding and the restrictions reducing.
In the beginning of the series she literally couldn't do any complicated movements with her quirk or else she would instantly throw up but now she can pull off flips and practically fly without vomiting.

I like how your entire fucking argment amounts to "it doesn't count". Her quirk isn't meant for combat so she compensated by knowing GMA to give her an edge which came in handy

This

>the female characters are on par with the male characters.
>OP

Not power level wise but in terms of usefulness, relevance and how the story treats them they kinda are.

Rebecca was terrible

Shoujo in the vein of a battle shounen won't exist as long as mahou shounen in the vein of little girl shows won't exist.

>rejecting the fact that they were hurt in first place
That basically means she isnt restricted to heal organic beings, it also works on things

It also has a lot to do with brand and image. If a magazine is built on romance and similar themes, you're not suddenly going to get a manga in that magazine showing people beating the shit out of each other.

It's a term lost to time and changed to suit everyone's views.

Because women in real life are protected by men.

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>Erza is probably the only female in battle shounen history that actually managed to look badass while fighting

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