Why did homura tell kyubey about madoka?

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Sketchy interpretation of those scenes but not invalid, I like it.

Just looking at those still pictures creates infinite possibilities once again.
Just what could possibly ever compete?
You could literally print all of those pictures out and put them in a gallery and it would be better than all of the modern art. What can possibly compare?

>What can possibly compare?
Puppets

Cool it with the hyperbole bud

I think Homura didn't know for sure she'd be able to retrieve Madoka. It was a mix between wanting to see Madoka one more time and a gamble to take her power.

That's not hyperbole.
I'm actually underrating it in that post tbqh, it's humility.

But he's right.

The 2nd shot is just the sky, it's meaningless without context

Yea, ok, if you agree that the other ones belong in a museum and are better then all of the Modern art, then I will concede that the sky is not particularly meaningful without context

Has anyone ever noticed that Moemura has a giant eye on her head like a bird?
That's the first time I ever noticed it.
So the 4th scene is basically Madoka feeding a crow from a certain point of view.
More symbolism, more depth... What could possibly ever compare?

I do agree, modern art is largely garbage, doesn't compare to an actual work like Rebellion.

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So? Have you ever been to a museum, lad?

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>ignoring the true mastermind behind everything
Pathetic

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Iroha is a better MC than Homura. She did everything right. Ain't that right my Gachabros?

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Absolutely based. Gachachads always win.

>not Gachads
you had ONE job...

OH NO NO NO NO NO NO
How will Gacheks ever recover?

Her reaction in this scene doesn't feel like an improvised opportunity

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Is this the final layer of Rebellion?
Homura planned everything from the beginning and knew what would happen, just like Lelouch of the Rebellion... wait... what?

No, he just doesn't understand Homura.

>Homura is actually Leluche.
IT'S IN THE NAME.
This confirms it: They knew that we would notice, so the name of "Rebellion" is a reference to Lelouch of the Rebellion - which is made in order to create an intrinsic reverence to Zero Requiem false flag theory, which is to say, Homura planned everything from the very beginning. 100% confirmed.
Now finally, at last, I understand Rebellion. Well played, Urobuchi Gen, Well played.

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>Implying this isn't actually the case
You might make fun about it, but Madoka and Code: Geass are both parts of the Great Unified Meta-narrative.

Code: Geass states:
Charles desired the past,
You(Schneizel) desire a world of eternal now,
But I(Leluche) hope for the future.

Madoka deals on the meta level with exactly the same conflict:
Madoka hopes for the future.
Homura creates a world of eternal now, THAT is the nature of her world - don't be mistaken.

So it's the same conflict, but Homura is Schneizel, ironically the two series have the exact opposite conclusion.
Watch this:
youtube.com/watch?v=bhtYVs4PhAk
and then rewatch Rebellions ending. It uses the exact same Symbolism.
The King Chess piece (Homura's soul)
The world map turns purple(the color of power) after the protagonist assumes control over it, just like In Rebellion Homura's grail overflows and covers the whole ground with a purple color.

OBEY ME WORLD.
And
Pulling god from heaven.
Are the exact same thing from a different perspective, it is a very very interesting comparison.

Gurren Lagann, Code Geass, Madoka, Eva, Devilman, Fate/Zero, etc.
They were all handling the same topic and they were all building up to Rebellion.
Notice that Darling in the Franxx (which attempted to join their ranks) failed miserably. Rebellion was the apex of SekaiKei, the absolute conclusion, not only is it impossible to make a proper sequel to it - no, it is impossible to even make a meta-sequel because it is the ultimate conclusion. There is nothing left to say.

Only once you understand how they are all connected will you have a chance at truly understanding Rebellion.

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>comparing an infantile garbage to the masterpiece that is Madoka

A masterpiece without meta is just a bunch of scribble.

Nonsense. Just because it wasn't made in vacuum, does not mean you shouldn't treat it as if it was. You can never know which series truly inspired Madoka, just as you can never know author's intent. Both concepts are redundant to understanding the self-contained meta-narrative and will only serve to distract you. Cast it away.

A meta-narrative is never self-contained. By definition.

>does not mean you shouldn't treat it as if it was.
Treating it as if it was made in a vacuum makes the whole less.
Unironically, Madoka in a Vacuum is great, and the best anime ever made. But Madoka with meta-context is simply divine, and it is simply sad if you rob yourself of it.

>You can never know which series truly inspired Madoka
No. I know which series inspired Madoka. I'll tell you.
Every.
Single.
One.

>A meta-narrative is never self-contained. By definition.
Oh yes, it absolutely can be. There's no singular narrative governing the entirety of Madoka Magica and Rebellion. By encompassing them all, a meta-narrative forms.

You are confusing meta-narrative and overarching narrative.

Magical Girl of the Day: Kazumi
-The MC of Kazumi Magica
-Amnesiac and found it a suitcase
-Over the course of the story she comes to find out the truth
-She is the the 13th clone of a Magical Girl named Kazusa.
-Really likes Strawberry Risotto probably because the original Kazusa liked it.
-Kazusa made a wish to be with Grandma before she died and when Grandma woke up she taught her how to make Strawberry Risotto as a parting gift
-Kazusa saved the Pleiades Saint from suicide and they liked her so much that they attempted to bring her back by using a Witch's heart and a personal magic. It failed plenty of times until Kazumi went mostly okay
-At the end of the series she wishes to be an actual girl.
-She calls her attack Limiti Esterni because the original Kazusa was inspired by Mami after being saved by her.
-Voiced by Sakura Tange
-Illustrated by Takashi Tensugi
-First-event limited girl in game
-Eats a lot which is why her Witch also eats a lot
-Take on new clothes at the end of the series.
-Took on the surname Subaru at the end, possibly after the girl who loved her the most.

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Watch the fucking movie. Homura decided to kidnap Madoka after she had the flashback with her tying her hair.

I'm not. "Meta" and "overarching" are synonymous. Your notion of meta-narrative simply differs from mine, that's all. Though both definitions are valid, for the sake of clarity we can refer to it as "overarching narrative" from hereon.
>Both concepts are redundant to understanding the self-contained overarching-narrative and will only serve to distract you.
Let's go with this, shall we? You literally cannot KNOW what inspired Madoka - that's an undisputable fact. And my opinion is that it's not relevant to understanding the series, because everything you need to understand about Madoka and Rebellion is self-contained in an audiovisual form. Thus there is no need to introduce unrelated narratives.

Ok, let me disprove this.
This will look petty, but perhaps you will understand why it is impossible to divorce it from the meta-narrative:

What are Madoka and Homura originally?
They are human girls, right?
But what the hell is that?
Like, seriously, you can only understand that the characters are human because it is implied by the meta-narrative. And because they are human you just automatically assume a lot of different characteristics about them.
If we put the Rebellion movie on a disc, put it into a probe and shoot it into space, and then 1 billion years later some alien discovers it after we are long extinct and views it, THAT would (literally) be in a vacuum. And you can bet your ass that they would perceive it completely differently because they would know literally nothing about the meta-context.

And its the same thing about all less dramatic things, all metaphors are meta-reverences to things that came before it.

Does it even matter? It's not like we're ever going to find out who is right.

>Like, seriously, you can only understand that the characters are human because it is implied by the meta-narrative.
I am very glad that you brought this up, because I have spent a lot of time pondering about this concept in relation to Madoka Magica.
>And because they are human you just automatically assume a lot of different characteristics about them
See, and I disagree with this. It's wrong to assume anything about the characters in Madoka. For example - the sexual orientation of the characters in the series is often brought up on Yea Forums. But such concept has no place in the discourse, because it doesn't even exist within the narrative. If the movie shows you a scene that is CLEARLY romantic in nature (e.g. Kyouko and Sayaka holding hands, Homura and Madoka in the boat or flower field), there is no reason to debate their sexuality, other than our preconceived notions. I say - cast them into the Mount Doom.
>If we put the Rebellion movie on a disc, put it into a probe and shoot it into space, and then 1 billion years later some alien discovers it after we are long extinct and views it, THAT would (literally) be in a vacuum. And you can bet your ass that they would perceive it completely differently because they would know literally nothing about the meta-context
I agree completely. But the fact that we don't live in a vacuum is our limitation and perhaps a reason why we may never be able to fully understand the work. It is not something we should consciously embrace and let it cloud our understanding with superficialities.

Why Madoka threads ends up like this

>hurr durr stop discussing stuff

>If the movie shows you a scene that is CLEARLY romantic in nature (e.g. Kyouko and Sayaka holding hands, Homura and Madoka in the boat or flower field), there is no reason to debate their sexuality, other than our preconceived notions.
This whole paragraph seems like post-post-ironic 73 Dimensional bait, have a cute SayaHomu to make sure I am not talking with YouKnowWho.
Other then that, there is simply no sexuality in Madoka, simple as that. And no, even those scenes are actually not romantic in nature.
And there we return to meta once again. Gen Urobutchi officially stated that MadoHomu is not sexual. Madoka simply does not touch the concept of sexuality at all.

But that is not the same as having no meta-context.
It's actually directly inherited from devil man. That's right. Devilman established this kind of character dynamic with Satan and Akira, and Madoka and Homura quote it directly.
It's like when a C programme uses an #include statement.
Without meta, you might actually be MISLEAD to believe that their relationship is sexual in nature - against the stated authorial intent and the meta-context.

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cont.
>the fact that we don't live in a vacuum is our limitation
Madoka was not created in a vacuum.
The only way to understand it is to understand the meta-context completely.
And here is an easy list of assumptions you should just make, and it's certain to be true beyond reasonable doubt:
1. Metaphors and meta-references are for a very large part subconscious. It means the creators don't actively have to think about them to put them in.
2. Everything you have ever seen influences your thinking in some way.
3. The creators were aware of all previous works, of course, they were.

With those 3 assumptions necessarily follows that Madoka meta inherits from all previous works.
And now comes a single truth:
"There are no true originals in this world, Good Artists Copy; Great Artists Steal"

With this, we can be CERTAIN that if something is like something else, then there are only two possibilities:
1. One is inherited from the other
2. They have a common ancestor

And because of that, the meta-context is necessarily valid.
This is key. Everything that looks like it is inherited, IS inherited, there are no "coincidences"

The fact that Madoka threads end up like this automatically humiliates all other fags who think their anime is deep.

During the flower scene it's kinda evident that she didn't even know if her own memories were even real or just a fabrication from wraiths or something else. Mami and Kyoko would probably take her to a mental asylum if she explained the original Timeline so Kyubey was really her only person to confide to.

>This whole paragraph seems like post-post-ironic 73 Dimensional bait, have a cute SayaHomu to make sure I am not talking with YouKnowWho.
That's really petty, just so you know. I thought you better.
>Other then that, there is simply no sexuality in Madoka, simple as that. And no, even those scenes are actually not romantic in nature.
>And there we return to meta once again. Gen Urobutchi officially stated that MadoHomu is not sexual. Madoka simply does not touch the concept of sexuality at all.
Where did I say otherwise? Romance does not equal sexuality - that's not a hard concept to understand, is it? And yes, those scenes absolutely are romantic. If you think that Madoka Magica has no romance in it, you haven't even begun to understand the series.
>authorial intent and the meta-context.
Neither is a valid argument, don't bring them up. If you can't back your interpretation with the series itself that's fine, but don't bother masking your opinion with some pseudo-objective pretence, such as author's intent or alleged meta-context.

Finally, it seems we have reached an irreconcilable difference. I consider both the meta-context and author's intent irrelevant, redundant and detrimental to the understanding of Madoka - you don't. Please, interpret the series in whatever way you find most enjoyable. I am not trying to change your mind, so no need to antagonize me.

Oh and she needed to talk to Kyubey to find out if the original Timeline could have possibly existed.

youtube.com/watch?v=iiv7scnnDCk

Just how good is the new Madoka MC?

-Cute baby cheeks that you want to pinch
-Cute smile
-Looks cute and sexy in bikini
-Lovely voice
-School Idol and Idolm@ster

This has been explained dozens of times already. Why ask it again?

>Madoka was not created in a vacuum.
Yes, obviously true.
>The only way to understand it
I disagree, but that's beating a dead horse.
>to understand the meta-context completely.
Which is impossible.
>1. Metaphors and meta-references are for a very large part subconscious. It means the creators don't actively have to think about them to put them in.
>2. Everything you have ever seen influences your thinking in some way.
>3. The creators were aware of all previous works, of course, they were.
All true. And yet all you did was to create an equation with 3 fundamentally unknowable (and arguably redundant) variables. You literally created an unsolvable problem. How could that ever deepen your understanding?

youtube.com/watch?v=9UcNH1xROHI
Our new Homura.

youtube.com/watch?v=-R2ogn_TZgA
If Yuka Ootsubo joins the Madoka Extended Family we just need to bring Rie Murakawa on board and the whole gang will be reunited in MAGIA RECORD!!!!

>That's really petty, just so you know. I thought you better.
I'm sorry, I was once explaining something to user and then it later turned out to be him, I have gotten really cautious regarding anything that has to do with shipping after that.

Ok, that's easy then.
It's not an equation but a derivation, and you agree with the assumptions, so just tell me which step you disagree with:
1. & 2. & 3. -> "Madoka meta inherits from all previous works"

4. "There are no true originals in this world, Good Artists Copy; Great Artists Steal" -> "Everything that is in Madoka is inherited from somewhere"

"Madoka meta inherits from all previous works" & "Everything that in Madoka is inherited from somewhere" ->
"The origins of many things in Madoka can be traced back to other works" ->
5. "The other works are therefore relevant to understand the origins of those same things"

Now I use two additional assumptions:
6. "It is vital to understand the origin of something in order to understand it"
7. "To understand Madoka it is important to understand all things in Madoka"

5. & 6. & 7 -> "The other works are vital to understanding Madoka" -> "The meta-context matters"

I was to address every step you made, but I realized it's pointless, because our disagreement is much more fundamental than that.

The problem I have with your approach is that whether you call it an equation or a derivation, you are using unknowable variables. Yes, that's a fact. You will never know which works influenced Madoka (you will never know author's intent either - that's another fact). And if you assume that every single work did - you would literally have to understand every single work in human consciousness in order to understand Madoka. Thus you are basically embracing a nihilistic approach towards the work, because following your logic, you can never understand the work unless you know perfectly what led to every single narrative decision.

>you can never understand the work unless you know perfectly what led to every single narrative decision.
That’s exactly right. But notice that this is fundamentally the nature of all empirical things. You can already never fully understand Madoka because you can never be certain that you yourself exist in the first place.

Also, Notice that all your arguments only address the implications of my argument. You are saying that no one would be able to know anything about it then. But that has no relevancy to its validity.

Even if it means what you say it does(which is all correct btw.) it does not mean the argument is false.

Also I woudln’t say it is necessarily nihilistic, only in the same sense that I only know that I know nothing.

Also, my derivation is not using any unknowable variables. It uses only the 6 assumptions that I made.
It’s correct that’s authorial intent and meta are not fully knowable, yet the argument is completely divorced from this. It only proves that it would be useful to know it if possible.

If your argument should be that
“If we can’t know it anyway, it’s irrelevant”, then I must point towards that all empirical knowledge is unknowable in the same way - and it has served us quite well so far.

>Notice that all your arguments only address the implications of my argument
That's not incorrect. I do have problem with the implications, rather than the logic of your argument.

According to my philosophy, all I need to understand the work is the 12 episodes and the movie (and character songs, perhaps). Now - I may never know if I understand it, but I know that I absolutely can come to understand it eventually, because everything is self-contained and all the necessary data is available to me.

On the other hand, you need to have a perfect understanding of every work that ever directly or indirectly influenced Madoka, as well as perfect understanding of author's intent. Something you will never have. Thus you have resignated yourself to never fully understanding the work.

I'm not saying your philosophy is inherently invalid, I just don't find it very useful or enviable.
>“If we can’t know it anyway, it’s irrelevant”
Not only that - I also consider it redundant and thus subject to Occam's razor. I'm not sure if I can put together a convincing argument as to why I find it redundant, other than the fact that I consider the work entirely self-contained. But seems like a circular reasoning. The aforementioned implications of not looking at it as a self-contained work, perhaps.

But if everything we can’t know for certain is irrelevant or redundant, then physics is irrelevant and redundant.
And so is history.
We don’t know ANYTHING for certain.
All we have is approximate knowledge about everything besides Math.
So how do you reconcile it.

With my reasoning it would still be possibly to potentially understand it to 95% or so

>But if everything we can’t know for certain is irrelevant or redundant
I don't think that's at all what I implied.
>then physics is irrelevant and redundant.
In fact, this supports my point of view. Physics are not fundamentally unknowable. We can absolutely get to understand all the physics, eventually. We may never know whether we understand them fully, but there's nothing inherently impossible about it.

You can shoehorn a conscious creator of the universe into our physical models, just like you can shoehorn vague notions like author's intent or meta-context into Madoka, but all it does is add unnecessary complexity and level of unknowable which does not further our understanding in any appreciable way.
>With my reasoning it would still be possibly to potentially understand it to 95% or so
But that's a completely arbitrary number. With my reasoning, a 100% understanding is theoretically achievable, no matter how elusive.

I love how it's so easy to just dismiss everything in your post as you lying to try and harass and attack people. Because you post that same garbage image all the time. Proving you are not interested in real discussion, you are just trying to harass people.

All we know about physics is just the result of millions of experiments.
Nothing more.
There is a small but positive chance that we were just lucky a million times in a row and physics ist secretly false.
We will never know for sure, no matter how many experiments we do.
>100%
Never.
You will always have a positive probability that we are secretly living in the matrix. And are getting fouled by some malicious force.

And it’s the same thing with Madoka.
We can’t know everything about the authorial intent. But we can know a great deal if we look at his direct statements and previous works.
We can’t know EVERY SINGLE WORK that influenced it. But if we just know a whole bunch, we will already be aber to derive lots from them.

Physics is an extreme example, but if you look at less exact sciences, you will notice that we are not very certain about lots of things.

imagine being so retarded that you think that philosophical discussion about Madoka is a bad thing.

Based and Redpilled

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You're right that this scene has a double meaning, that much is obvious. However, this was the scene after the flower scene, where that's when she hatched up her plan. Nice try, though.

This is evidence for Homura wanting to get Madoka back all along, but not for her plan going as far back as episode 12.
She hatched her plan in the flower scene, when Madoka told her it would be unbearable to leave her loved ones.

>CLEARLY romantic
I was clearly ambiguous for the purpose of teasing the shipping fans.

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>Madoka simply does not touch the concept of sexuality at all.
>there is simply no sexuality in Madoka
What about the Sayaka and Kyousuke plotline? With that one exception, I think you're correct.
However, I guess you could say that the sexuality of the plotline was only, at best, implied because of Sayaka's romantic attraction to him, and not explicitly stated.

>Sayaka and Kyousuke
There was nothing sexual whatsoever.

I mean, she had gone insane. Just not in quite that way.

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No, I didn't think about that when writing it.
Sayaka and Kyousuke is definitely sexual attraction as you can see Sayaka blushing on several occasions.
Also, the big deal about Sayaka becoming a Lich is that she wouldn't want Kyousuke to have to put up with a BODY like that.
Also, this:
theirisianprincess.tumblr.com/post/81141228276/placement-of-the-soul-gems-in-puella-magi-madoka
Don't judge me for linking to Tumblr, that's not my site its what came up in a google search for
"Placement of soul gems", and it makes the point quite well.
This thing is absolutely right and not a coincidence, in fiction, nothing is ever random.

>However, when [Madoka] made that final ultra mega super duper wish, her soul gem was somewhere completely different.
I guess the blogger never paid attention to Madokami's design before?
>Homura's gem
I interpret the placement of her gem as her wanting to change Madoka's fate "with her own hands," so to speak.

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Yea, I agree with you completely for both of them, the blogger fucked them up.
But Sayaka is completely on point, though.

Blushing does automatically mean sexual attraction, nor does having a crush on someone. Sexuality is simply not present in the narrative. Your meme link does not prove anything. I guarantee you that it does not mean anything so superficial such as her having a tingly tummy for Kyousuke's dick.

>Blushing does automatically mean sexual attraction, nor does having a crush on someone.
You're right it does not always mean sexual attraction, but it does in certain contexts.
For example, when Sayaka puts her head closer to Kyousuke's when they start listening to music together, she gets flustered. She's clearly romantically attracted to him, and romance implies sexuality. The only hint of sexuality in Madoka is Sayaka's attraction to Kyousuke.

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I want to stick my dick in crazy.

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Sayaka has GUTS so her soul gem is on her stomach

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>She's clearly romantically attracted to him
Yes, that much is obvious.
>romance implies sexuality
Possibly, but not necessarily. It's pointless to discuss a theme that is simply not present at all or circumstantially at best.

So do I Homu Satan is perfect.

>Possibly, but not necessarily.
The one thing that distinguishes romantic love specifically from every other love is sexuality. Otherwise, it would be platonic or another kind of love.

This is slander, Sayaka-chan is a good girl

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If Sayaka had gotten a nosebleed you probably would have also that it was JUST nosebleeding and nothing else.

Notice that Homura does not blush at all in pic related.

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That's simply not true. Platonic implies non-sexual, but not non-romantic.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship
What are you trying to say with this pointless post?

I never said Homura's love was romantic.

>not blush
But it is.

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I would describe the concept of "romantic friendship" simply as platonic love. "Romanitc friendship" is redundant.

It's the same as here, don't get your hopes up, user.

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With Ume's designs everyone is blushing at all times so it's kind of hard to say

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Every female meguca is always "blushing." It's part of the artstyle. There's a difference between the default and actual full-faced blushing.

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Forget the blush, they have it almost every single time. Even with her mother and QB, etc.
It's the facial expression here that is far beyond a blush. If you can't see it then you are autistic or a sociopath.

Except when they're FUCKING DEAD

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I was memeing with the screencap, obviously she's not blushing there per se (which doesn't prove anything). I will, however, defend to death the notion that her love for Madoka is platonic.
I think you might be the one who's autistic, because I clearly agreed about Sayaka's crush for Kyousuke being romantic in nature.

Or dead inside.

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>love for Madoka is platonic.
ROMANTIC

I MEANT ROMANTIC

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I don't know where the problem is then, I agree with you that her love is platonic, good that this got settled.

FREUDIAN SLIP.
YOU KNOW THE TRUTH DEEP DOWN.
WE'RE DONE HERE, FOLKS!

It's not settled.

DELET

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The right chart is:

Madoka -(platonic love)-> Sayaka
Madoka -(platonic love)-> Homura
Madoka -(platonic love)-> Kyouko
Madoka -(platonic love)-> Mami

Sayaka -(platonic love)-> Madoka
Sayaka -(dislikes)-> Homura
Sayaka -(platonic love)-> Kyouko
Sayaka -(platonic love)-> Mami

Mami -(platonic love)-> Sayaka
Mami -(platonic love)-> Madoka
Mami -(dislikes)-> Homura
Mami -(platonic love)-> Kyouko

Kyouko -(likes)-> Madoka
Kyouko -(platonic love)-> Sayaka
Kyouko -(respects)-> Homura
Kyouko -(respects)-> Mami

Homura -(platonic love)-> Madoka
Homura -(respects)-> Kyouko
Homura -(likes)-> Mami
Homura -(dislikes)-> Sayaka

I fucked up Mami, should be:

Mami -(motherly love)-> Sayaka
Mami -(motherly love)-> Madoka
Mami -(dislikes)-> Homura
Mami -(respects)-> Kyouko

>Madoka -(platonic love)-> Kyouko
Bullshit. They barely fucking know eachother. I wouldn't even consider them actual friends. They're at best acquaintances.

It's just a childhood friend thing, no one cares about some side character.

The two most important characters who's interactions drive the story, they will be shipped together. No one cares about this stupid lolnogay argument.

Madoka -(platonic love)-> EVERYONE because she is Madoka

>It's just a childhood friend thing, no one cares about some side character.
>H-he's just a side character! She doesn't love him!
You're completely delusional.

>Madoka=Jesus XD XD
Madoka isn't Jesus, user. Regular people, no matter how kind or affectionate, can still only like people without loving them, especially strangers and near-strangers. There is nothing to imply she puts Kyouko on the level of Sayaka, Homura, or Mami.

Absolute nonsense. Homura's love for Madoka goes beyond platonic. And beyond romantic for that matter as well(though it includes both). It is all-encompassing and absolute, yet even that fails to describe her love for Madoka. But it is is not agape, because it contains desire. There is simply no sufficient descriptor of Homura's love, other than the very depiction of it in Rebellion's finale. If you don't understand her love, you cannot even begin to understand Rebellion.

Madoka's love for Homura is agape.

Autism. You know the kid with aspergers in your class in school who couldn't shut up about this one thing they really loved? That's Homura.

Homura's love for Madoka is
amour fati, the love to fate and the affirmation of existence.

Homura loves Madoka so much, that Madoka's existence redeems the existence of the world in her Eyes.
Not only does she love Madoka so much that she is worth more then the world. That is trivial.
No, Homura loves Madoka so much, that the meaninglessness of nihilism itself in the face of cosmic absurdism is redeemed through Madoka - without looking back from it.
Madoka is the meaning of life for Homura.
All of the sufferings in the world are worth it because the world brought forth Madoka.

This is what Homura means when she says "This world is not worth saying"
And "Even the pain became dear to me"

Saying that this is sexual in any way just simply demesnes it.

Agape and other forms of love are not mutually exclusive. Agape just means you love someone unconditionally - that you will never stop loving them no matter what. For example, Agape+romantic would just mean you love someone unconditionally but desire to have sex with them. Think of it as a flavor, if you will.

Just watch colorful:
vimeo.com/162027984
Madoka's existence turns the world from a desert into a colorful garden.
It is not the time she spent with Madoka that is the garden.
It's Madoka's existence in the world.
Look, Homura's time with Madoka was pretty horrible, but the world is still a garden when she is standing like a dwarf with the other girls dancing around her.
BECAUSE MADOKA IS THERE.
But when Madoka vanishes - and turns sand, the world returns to being a desert, because without Madoka it has no value.

Most interestingly, in Madoka's sand lies Homura's lizard piece...

>Homura's love for Madoka is amour fati
>trying to smash unrelated concepts together while trying to sound intelligent.
How very big-brained of you. Upvoted.

Yes, I completely agree with that. I just think that putting a specific tag on Homura's love can't do it a justice. This scene is the closest you can get to describing it.

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>Colorful
On an unrelated note, did we figure out why there are two versions of the opening? I cannot find the movie with the version you posted and only found it this version exists very recently.

Same here, I remember the Rebellion thread where we realized that.

This is some Mandela effect, reality-warping shit.

>unrelated concepts
>Trying to mask that you don't understand
LOL

I remember that too, weird how I never knew

Very weird. Almost 6 years and everyone noticed only now, apart from a few anons who on the other hand thought there was only this version all along

I'm 90-93% sure it's the creditless version from the BD extras. I don't have a release of Rebellion that included the BD extras but I do have one for the recap movies and it also has a creditless OP where the intro has some other animation instead of Madoka running to school.

That's probably the case.
And it makes sense since that is such a big change and Rebellion is so chaotically dependent on the symbolism of the imagery that changing something like that could potentially fuck up the whole thing.

I want to fuck Homura in the ass so hard

What would Homura think if she read that?

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She'd be flattered.

I can't wait for the paragraph after paragraph explaining the hidden meanings behind the MagiReco anime.

You're right, I just checked and it comes with the BD. Weird that this clearly superior version is not in the movie.

I'm the one writing most of those paragraphs, well, at least half of them, and I don't see Magia record being good.
The thing you are going to get is angry posts about why it's bad and calls for violence.

>calls for violence
I hope some autist actually goes through. Shaft is not worth saving.

You'll be disappointed because all you'll see is paragraph after paragraph of complaining.

true, but it's also easy to be on top when your competition is so shit

The only other works in cinematography I'm aware of (anime included) that can compare are Stalker and 2001.

how can you ignore eva like that and not have sailor moon as a runner up

Sure, it's superior in a vacuum, but I totally get why they did what they did with the actual movie. The transition to the song is seamless because the song starts playing first while Madoka is still running to school and then the OP animation starts while the song is already playing, and that seamlessness of the transition might be more important than the inclusion of a few additional shots. This is the reason why Fancutfags episode 9 leaves out the movie-only content from the graveyard scene; it just wasn't possible to transition into that seamlessly enough.

She'd probably imagine Madoka doing it to her

That's a poor bait, user.
Yeah, you're right. I forgot about the running transition.

thinking madoka has more substance than evangelion is worse bate

>Evangelion
>substance
You're a funny guy. 6/10 made me reply.

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Im always hanging around Madoka threads lately, I have seen you post this gif more than once (if you are the same person, which I assume you are).

So, I was interested, waht's the symbolism in this gif? You have talked about how full of symbolism it is but I have never seen you explaining it. Thanks in advance.

>new Madoka MC
w0t?

>FREUDIAN SLIP.
this!

Madoka has actual real philosophical depth beyond measure.
Eva only handles psychological problems.
That's not even the same class of substance, Madoka is so far beyond Eva that it's a joke.

Claiming that Eva is deeper then Madoka sounds like a joke. It's just simply not a reasonable position to hold.
Every time I read it, I ask myself:
Are those Madoka fags who are just mocking Eva? Or can someone truly be such a sad person with such a narrow and simplistic view of the world to actually think that?

There's a new Madoka series coming later this year.

>implying Shaft doesn't die until then
based and gachapilled

God damn you Madokafags are sounding like Hunterchads

oh, the Magia record thing? Does it have a release date already? Also the girl in the video will be Iroha's voice actor? Fells good man.

it won't, they will live long enough to continue the plot of rebellion.

we are madokachads

Sure, I have a copypasta for exactly that particular image.

First, what is the context of this scene:
Sayaka confronts Homura about what she did to the world in Rebellion. But what is the ACTUAL state that the world is in?
That is what this scene conveys.

The sakura trees are blooming, classically and simply symbolizing, that it's a fresh start, for both the world and for the girls.

The violet water appears from Homura's Cup, this is a reference to the holy grail. Especially interesting if you consider that Gen Urubutchi wrote Fate Zero. That comparison alone could take the whole post, but let's just say that it symbolizes that this world is the product of Homura's Wish, violet is Homura's color.
If you compare this to Kiritsugu, whos holly grail exploded in a sea of fire because he could not formulate his wish. And Homura's wish was to wish to save a single person, it truly is ironic, but I'm getting off track.

Black Feathers fall from the sky, the colors are off, the sky is green, it symbolizes that there is something wrong with the world, it became twisted.
Yet Bebe, does not seem to mind. While Sayaka is idealistically confronting Homura who "upset the natural order", Bebe is overjoyed that she has the chance to run around in the rain again. Even if it is a rain of black feathers. But does that really matter?
Homura tells Sayaka: "After a while, this world will seem natural to you"
And indeed, for Bebe, it makes no difference. After the scene, she happily goes off to school with her friends.

The scene taps into Absurdism, and asks questions:
What actually is normal?
And more than anything, what is the purpose of normality?
If "normal" is not able to produce a world where little girls like Bebe can happily run around in the rain, then what point is there to it?
Also, and more subtly:
Don't you think there are many black feathers falling from the sky right now, but we just don't notice, because it became normal?

This, especially considering Eva was surpassed at its own thing by an obscure J.C. Staff OVA from early 00s.

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there's zero intellectual pursuit in madokas writing, making your main character become god is some cringe level shit to begin with

>implying Madoka is the main character

>people still don't understand Homura to this day

If you think you understand Rebellion, then you don't understand Rebellion.

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Not that guy, but Madoka is factually the protagonist of the anime. Homura is the protagonist of Rebellion.

>being this much of a pseud

This thread just proves to me that Yea Forums is even worse at analysing a movie than Yea Forums.

After reading through this I am now convinced that nu-Yea Forums has now been fully taken over by brainless troglodytes who are too fucking dumb to even analyse a straightforward movie like Rebellion.
I dont even know what to say. You fail so hard at following the movie that a handful of scenes where characters SHOW instead of TELL you their motivations you are completely lost.

Homuras Motivation during Rebellion is exactly the same as it was at the end of original series: Discontent with the Status Quo of Madoka becoming Madokami and sacrificing herself in order to become Magical Girl Buddha who guides Magical Girl Souls to Magical Girl Heaven before they lose their souls and get turned into pure energy and harvested by the Incubators. Sure, she is in love with Madoka, in fact she is a raging lesbian but getting into Madokas pantsu is not the driving force behind her actions. In fact we can see her put a lid on that too, so she can concentrate on getting the job done because it gets in the way of saving Madoka as much as other megucas go.
We have a little scene at the end of the original series with Homura and Tatsuya and Junko where we can see a glimpse of Homura not being happy how things turned out and that Madoka isnt around anymore, but she is accepting it because she believes that Madoka is happy with her choice and that sooner or later despite no one knowing or remembering her she will meet her again.

Now Rebellion comes around and already in the intro we see some scenes that visually not only foreshadow Homuras actions but also once again reiterate her position at the ending of the series: That its a subpar ending according to Homuhomu.

CONT

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Thanks friend, very interesting.

>Don't you think there are many black feathers falling from the sky right now, but we just don't notice, because it became normal?

This bit in particular is pretty good. Thanks once again, do you have any more things like that to share or to point me towards?

>the protagonist becomes very powerful as foreshadowed, therefore it is childish and bad
great surface-level argument there, fag.

CONT

There is a scene in the middle in the movie where amnesiac Madoka and slowly-getting-her-memories-back-yet-still-not-quite-there Homura have this little talk about family and friends and leaving them behind. This is a very important scene because its here where we see through Amnesiac-Madoka that family and friends are important to her and she wouldn't want to leave them behind. So Homura who was already bitter about Madoka´s Sacrifice not being the ending she wanted for her gets confirmed by Madoka herself that she ignored her own happiness for the greater good. It is this scene what will later lead to the ending of Rebellion being what it is: Its not Homura sealing Madokami because she wanted steamy lesbian sex, it is the same what drove her to dive through countless timeloops: Selfless love for Madoka. Love that is ready to sacrifice even her own future, her very own soul so Madoka can spend some more time with the ones she cares about.

In the ending it is implied that she was thinking about freeing Madoka from Madokami ever since the original series, as stated above, it was also confirmed to her that Madoka isnt exactly happy but at least at peace with herself with her role as Madokami. So maybe she did, maybe she was indeed trying to figure a way out to help Madoka and the plot by the Incubators just played into her hands, so its not exactly an asspull it was all set up and foreshadowed.
There are multiple lines kinda strewn in about that are part of longer info-dumps that are also relevant later on, when it is revealed that the Incubators have been trying to fuck around with the Law of Cycles since the very beginning they mention that "if we can observe it we can interfere with it", it is a sentence that is later mirrored by Akuma Homura who states this is second time she sees reality getting rewritten, it is kinda implied that "she observed it, so she can interfere with it".

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CONT

Another important clue is that what Akuma Homura is exactly and this is something she flatly explains to the viewer (which the Incubator confirms in the very same scene): The final step in the evolution of a magical girl. Acceptance that the pain, grief and bitterness she felt are all part of the love that she feels for Madoka.

So Homura not only did nothing wrong, she did in fact every single thing right. All her tears, sweat and blood and strength poured into achieving her goal: Not to eradicate Madokami or have Madoka to herself, its to let Madoka be happy. A normal teenage surrounded by her friends and family. Out of love for her.

Homura did nothing wrong is not just a meme, she succeeded beautifully even if just for a time.

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Madoka has 4 arcs:
"Prolog im Himmel"
Prologue 1:
Mami's death - or the introduction of the world. (Construction)
Sayaka's and Kyouko's death - or the disillusionment about the world. (Deconstruction)

Prologue 2:
Homura's backstory and Madoka's sacrifice - or the rediscovery of fundamental values (Reconstruction)

Rebellion:
"Mada dame yo" - You thought it was the end, and this is just a fanservice movie? Well, no the opposite is the case.
The actors are assembled; the scene is set; and now, the actual play is about to begin...

People can be stupid sometimes and so did she! You can't just make a story from machine like bored dumbs.

I agree with you, user. Well said.

>she did in fact every single thing right
I agree with everything except this. She made a mistake when she allowed Madoka to become a god in the first place. That was the true tragedy of the original series.

I love how it's so easy to just dismiss everything in your post as you lying to try and harass and attack people. Because you post that same garbage image all the time. Proving you are not interested in real discussion, you are just trying to harass people.

Well said. I agree 100%.

You can only make a mistake if you have agency in a situation.

She could have rewinded and try again. Forever, if that's what it takes. Of course she had an agency.

So Homura's mistake was that in the 100th loop she once again tried and failed to prevent Madoka from Sacrificing herself like in every single loop before that?

AFTER Madoka became God?

No, where did you get that stupid idea?

>Do you have any more things like that to share or to point me towards?
I'm glad you like it. But no, not at this time. Just the things that are written in this thread.

Have you seen the scene, Homura wanted to try again, but then she realized that she is only making everything worse by adding more and more karma to Madoka ever time.

Yeah but that implies that at the point where she met Madoka there was any chance to steer Madoka away from her fate and at some point Kyubey in fact confirms it himself: That the karmic energy of Madoka increases every time Homura looped.
The second thing is that due to the nature of how the wishes essentially operate on karmic retribution and thus are meant to backfire on the Wishmaker (no matter if it is a selfish or selfless wish, one could even argue the the concept of a wish itself is inherently selfish) made it impossible by default for Homura to ever save Madoka.

Through Homuras repeated suffering Madoka rightfully realizes that she cannot be saved, something that if you remember, she begged Homura to do somewhere along the timeloops. In the ending of the original series Madoka saves herself, through her own wish and through that sacrifice of becoming Magical Girl Buddha saves everyone else along the way.

Correct. They are failures to meet her goal. They're mistakes.

a failure and a mistake are not the same things.

Imagine, you have a 90% chance to get 100$ or a 100% chance to get 1$.
Imagine you choose the first option and loose, so you get 0.
It was still the right choice because you had a much much higher estimated value.
But it was still a failure.
So it was a failure but not a mistake.

>Homura didn't make any mistakes
What about the time where she tried to give Sayaka a grief seed by insulting her? That was really stupid of Homura.

>walls of text
I'm still sleepy. I don't want to read them now.

Where is Apple-chan?

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A hero must not give up his struggle, lest he becomes a tragic hero.

Its not a story of hero. Its not even a proper hero's journey.

It doesn't need to fit into your narrow, textbook notion of what hero means. Homura is a struggler defying fate for a singular reason, very much like Guts from Berserk (before the manga turned into happy-go-lucky island adventures, anyway).

It begins In medias Res.
Homura is from the Beginning a Veteran of a thousand Battles, is a master of the underworld.
There are no alles, homura is alone.
Homura is not a classic hero and also not a tragic hero, she is a sekaikei hero - it’s the birth of a new archetype.

The age of heroes is passed; now is the age of SekaiKei, the age of global influence and automatisation

she was love drunk

oh ok, thanks either way

I THINK MAGIRECO SUCKS.
TrySail is shit too.

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Her mistake was getting hit in the face with a skyscraper

Your mistake is thinking you are funny.

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>muh perfect homura dindu nuffin wong
This is why no one cares about Madoka anymore.

I have grief syndrome due to apple deficiency.

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I want to see Kyouko and Homura make out.

>i want to see middle school girls make out

Hell yes.

Puppet kino, you mean?

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I think I can speak for nearly everyone here to say that the megucas are very attractive girls.

based

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How can you guys keep doing this? Rebellion was more than 5 fucking years ago, we're never getting answers.

We're not even supposed to get answers because there aren't any answers. The gaps are there so that we can imagine what the answers could be because that's fun.

So in the end... Homura saved Madoka.

You mean really stupid of Sayaka

This, Sayaka chose to reject life, and would have regardless of Homura's attitude

Tell me, what is the price of releasing her of her curse and living a life that would make Abe smile?

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>blaming a depressed person for their attitude
Homura would rather Sayaka be out of the picture than help her, so that's why she didn't really try harder than saying "Do this, you retard." Sayaka, who already didn't trust Homura, obviously there was more to the request than "I'm being nice and I want to help you," because that's not the message Homura sent. Baka Sayaka memes aside, this instance is Homura's fault, not Sayaka's.

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At this point Homura was done dealing with everyone else's shit.
She's here to save Madoka and everyone else can go kill themselves like they always do.
There is only so much empathy in a person and eventually the well runs dry.

based

I mean this has been explained here time and time again user.
I think the only people here who don't get it are just trolls pretending.
You have to be seriously fucking dumb to not see it after it's been spelled out for you.

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>urobuchi writes an isekai
>urobuchi writes a touhou
>urobuchi writes a rom-com
what happens? can't bingo this guy

Sayaka was responsible for her own actions, even if Homura had been nice about it Sayaka would have rejected it

>Sayaka was responsible for her own actions

On the other hand, Homura was responsible for:

>saving Madoka, her hope, and her love
>protecting all life in the universe from the meguca system
>reviving her friends and giving them the happiness they were denied for so long
>creating a new, perfect universe safe from Incubators and witches
>finally giving Madoka a normal life while keeping the LoC intact
>building the hype by stalling the torrent
>causing waves of Madoka posts on Yea Forums
>making the third movie set sales records
>making Gen enjoy his trip in France so much that he spilled the beans on an upcoming 2-cour Madoka project at the french convention Epitanime 2013
>inflicting despair upon the Incubators
>killing all the majuu singlehandedly
>Madoka having enough karmic destiny to overcome her doomed magical girl fate
>Mitakihara City's weapons arsenal being used before the expiring date
>revealing Madoka's killer instincts by triggering Mami's insanity
>revealing the truth about the inevitable fate of all magical girls
>giving impotent anons concrete erections with her perverted goddess smile and outfit

She has become perfection incarnate and must be loved at all costs.

>perfection
That would be this girl

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give her your soul and with it your seed
or die

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this, madoka is love, Madoka is life

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we all know of the best part of madoka magica is magical girl noir quest

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Too bad she's gay.

Even better

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Was this Rebellion? I really need to re-watch it.

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what does Yea Forums think about the current event?
190401.magireco.com/

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I do not

>there will never be another wild ride like madoka

Fucking hell

madoka IS pretty wild when she rides me..

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It's not like she could have known they had the capability to do what they did, I doubt the idea that she herself could manipulate Godoka even occurred to her until after Kyuubey said it.