Anyone who thinks that DitF was bad because of Imaishi and not because of A-1 and Nishigori is a fucking moron

>robot designs don't look like robots
Going by this logic I can't enjoy Frame Arms Girl
>nevermind the cockpits
Do you mean the sexual stuff? In my eyes it's not worse than say Amagi Brilliant park showing off all their female cast in swimsuits come episode two. I think it's actually better, since I was laughing at how sexually naive everybody but the doctor was, while in Amagi I was just rolling my eyes.

Anyone who defends that colossal steaming pile of shit that was DitF's final four episodes is a fucking moron.

>Going by this logic I can't enjoy Frame Arms Girl
Yes, you can't.

>In my eyes it's not worse than say Amagi Brilliant park
You aren't any good at this if two anime names of which you drop for defense are Frame Arms Girls and fucking Amagi Brilliant Park.

Anyhow, that's just surface level problems that, assuming you have any common sense, would at least tip you off as anything you are about to watch from this point on can't be taken seriously. But it gets even worse with the story with its dragged as fuck love triangles and fucking amnesia subplot of all things. The only thing that keeps writing in Darling in the Franxx not literally sitcom tier like Friends is the fact that not all of them just fucked each other by end of the series like in Friends, but by god it's trying to be that.

Wasn't A1 mostly in charge of series direction and composition? Im probably wrong but I remember hearing that trigger was basically only involved in the mech designs and animating the mech battle. Idk regardless the series is a dark spot for both studios imo.

it's just babbies getting mad at their first neo-gainax show

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Its director is fucking Nishigori. That's like saying "didn't Shinkai work only on backgrounds for Your Name?"

Hey man fair is fair. I just remember hearing a lot of that stuff back when it was airing. Good to know, though.

>subject matters more than execution
You see, that's where you're wrong. Avatar 2009 had the same plot beats as Pocahontas yet it still managed to sway an audience of millions at it's airing, and why is that? Because it went through each of those story beats, telling the same story in a different setting while never skimping on any part of the story to "get to the good parts".
While its' plot is reminiscent to a soap opera, there's nothing inherently bad with a plot, it's how you convey that plot on screen that makes it or breaks it. In DitF's case, the foreshadowing, segue into widescreen for important scenes and the quickly developing romance between the two main characters was what drew me in. I'm not going to assume that I'm crazy for enjoying those things.

I really dislike those though, you do realize that you are citing shit some anons said in some threads you happened to see without providing any sources, right?

While it is interesting to speculate, most if not all of Yea Forums don't know even surface stuff regarding anime production.

I envy you, you are kind of person who enjoyed Avatar. Must be living a simple life.

Literally no one went to see Avatar for it's plot. They watched it because it looked good. Basically the violet evergarden of hollywood.

My guy, I wasn't making an argument I was genuinely curious because your post brought back that memory of those rumors I saw. Thanks for clearing that up partner.

Also the recession was in full swing by 09 so there were quite a few families just looking for an escape and Avatar provided a damn good one.

It really isn't done well. Neither was the Avatar. You are dumb.

It literally resolved Mitsuru's gay crush grudge against Hiro due to amnesia by getting him laid. It isn't an example of a well done story, it's something you'd say to mock some character's motivation.

Nothing to do with a "but it's done well story", just as user pointed out everyone went for graphix.

>what were the signs of an incoming trainwreck?
You've seen the female love interest naked and the MC touching her panties by the first episode.
It's not a matter of being prude or a sjw, it's a matter of recognizing that this is all they could come up with to grasp the viewer's attention by the first episode. It's appaling really. I could have looked past it had there been other good things about the episode, and write it off as a way to rake money from otakus, but there just wasn't. It was empty, uncreative, boring as sin.
Tl;dr don't let your dick decide to watch the next episode for you. That's usually a bad sign.

Avatar was way better than VEG, be fair here. One's essentially a sci-fi spectacle with a competently told story that makes sense, the other's a weirdly paced episodic story where Violet, the main focal point, changes character from episode to episode not because of visible character growth, but because of offscreen "passing of time character development".

I'm not saying Avatar's a masterpiece, I'm saying it's plot didn't drag it down because it made the effort for the plot to make sense and work. Even if it's ripped off from Pocahontas.

Don't forget how Underbheit from Venture Bros groped redhead. Can't blame him though. It really set the mood for something like Ichigo 100% for me ironically it didn't put Hiro in the mood for Ichigo if you know what I mean

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One is accissible to braindead adhd morons flick, the other is superbly written intricate drama thats too hard for imbeciles to percieve and comprehend.

it always amazes me that total brainlets bring up VEG plot not realizing all they do is reveal themselves as actual dumb morons

I wouldn't compare a narrative of a movie to TV series, but just subjectively speaking as much as I can rag on about Avatar, it at least still felt like it was done by a person who knows how to tell a story, it just wasn't a strong one. VEG and Ditf on the other hand, hoo boy.

>implying the general audience fell for 02's character design and not her relation to the MC
Having an aggressive girl go for the MC and the MC not immediately push her away and say no isn't something that you see too often.

I'm pretty sure they didn't stick around hoping for more butt groping and instead looked forward to future Klaxxo battles.

I'll add to that the flashback/Jian birds shtick they had at the beginning hinted at a lasting relationship between the two.

Honestly I forgot since I dropped this on the first ep, thanks for reminding me.

Really? You stayed for the romance?
I must admit that's cute.

I believe that that scene was trying to accomplish was that, well, remember how in EVA Shinji needed to give something to Rei and then he entered her apartment and stumbled upon her naked, tripped on her and fell on her boob? Remember how that whole scene was supposed to be just awkward, it didn't have KYA, Rei didn't slap Shinji, it's just a thing that happened and they left it at that.

What I believe the intention was that Nishigori tried to replicate that without fully understanding how Anno was trying to mock anime conventions like that. Hiro similarly just stumbled upon naked 02 and I believe the intention was that he wanted to create an atmosphere of "one thing leading to another and so on", but it didn't work because their interaction was cut short and one thing didn't lead to another, and whole amnesia subplot of them already knowing each other retroactively makes whole thing poinltess and 02 having strong reasons to be all over Hiro's dicc.

I think this scene would've been brilliant if Ditf wasn't what it was.

>empty, uncreative and boring
There was definitely meaning behind it though. Her being naked is a slap in the face compared to nearly everything else we'd seen of their society. It helps paint her as a free spirit trapped in a role where she's not allowed to be one.

Naw, it was just to draw tittays and cover for anime release. You know they drew nipples.

>user on Yea Forums is starved for love stories
There's a reason there's so much rampant shipping and best girl wars on Yea Forums.

Oh, sure. The symbolism was an accident, never meant that to happen. I'm surprised they didn't add wacky music to fit the hijinks.

It's more sad, a person who is craving a romance could've spent their time watching something much better and cuter like Ore Monogatari.

My version is just as valid as any other version.

>another show does an aspect of the show better than the show thus you shouldn't enjoy the worse version
Why not enjoy both?

Kek, if only having worse romance was Ditf's only fault.

The show clearly keeps up the characterization of 02 being a free spirit by building up on it by making her a caged animal in the conference room. If you don't want to add 2 and 2, sure, but don't try telling me it's as valid.

Don't try telling me my version isn't valid or else I'll just say your isn't!

I never read into it that far, I just thought whoever was writing this was just blindly following those ecchi anime conventions. Consciously or not.
It would be funny if what you said is true though because it would mean the guy ended up subverting a subversion, which just made him come back to square one, to the tired old ecchi trope Anno was trying to subvert. I want to believe someone who work in the industry would be too knowledgeable about anime to do that, but you never know.

That's just how I see things, I think there are pieces that fit into what I am trying to see, but the fact that it doesn't work as another side of a coin might as well just mean that I was wrong. But Ditf was often compared to EVA and mocked for it and Nishigori has worked with Anno, so I believe there is some truth to how I see things.

There could be, you never know what's going on in a writer's head, and like you said the connection between Eva and this work runs deep, for better or worse.

I don't think it's bad at all. Now can you stop making these shit threads? How much of a loser are you to bitch about a show you don't like almost an year after its finished airing? Christ, Yea Forumsnons sure are so pathetic and entitled.

>Avatar isn't good
Found the contrarian faggot

Darling in the Franxx was enjoyable because of the melodrama, just like everyone would expect from a show about a cast involving 5 guys and 5 girls being put together.
The fact that the main characters exploded in space, while the side cast got the ultimate super happy ending, proliferated and rebuild an even greater and better civilization than before is just awesome.

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But that's popular consensus though

I've never seen so many autistic posts in any other show. The same kind who over analyses this , writing paragraphs nobody bothers to read to call this shit seems to be the same kind that seethes when someone says Shield Hero is shit even though that show has even more asspulls, plot holes and flat characters that makes Miku developed than this show has.

>The fact that the main characters exploded in space, while the side cast got the ultimate super happy ending, proliferated and rebuild an even greater and better civilization than before is just awesome.
Nah, that's just TTGL. They figured who gives a shit, everyone seemed to enjoy it first time around.

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Just with the difference that this time, Simon and Nia both die. That is what Nishigori always intended to do.

>Don't like things I don't like
Stopped reading right there. Get a life faggot.

I think it's bad because it's bad.

They didn't explode in space newfag. Nia got deleted after her wedding and Simon lived as a Hobo.

>that makes Miku developed than this show has.
I will never not be mad about this. Zorome and Miku was only couple I legitimately cared for and wanted to see happy, but then I realized I liked them literally only because they are almost never in the spotlight and get the least development. In fact, pretty sure it's a saving grace because ability to fuck up its own premise is amazing in Ditf.

I also wanted them to breed like rabbits but ending seems to imply Miku is sterile, fuck this shit, it literally cucked me from one thing I was looking forward to, how can anyone enjoy this, this show is downright cruel.

>REEE START LIKING THINGS I LIKE
Topped reading right there. Get a life faggot.

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why did darling flop while VEG flourished?

No. That's the consensus in your CJ full of contrarian faggots.

Doggystyle cock pits were a mistake

What happens to main couple is irrelevant, only part that's relevant is that neither Simon nor Worse Simon boned their alien chicks.

But at least it had some nice production value most of the time and some sweet designs for the pretty gurlz. Shame that it really sucks in the action segments for a mecha anime.

>Zorome and Miku was only couple I legitimately cared
Oh it's not that DiTF was bad, you just had shit taste. Thanks for confirming otherwise I had to continually give you (You) s.
And yes, stop seething about people looking things you don't like and get a life. lol.

That's because alien chicks are an otaku's dream, and otaku want things that can't, shouldn't and fortunately never will exist.

How come Ditf ain't shit if you just said 1/5th of its main cast is shit though.

>blindly following those ecchi anime conventions
I just rewatched it. That scene without a doubt plays out differently than the usual convention you're talking about.

>Casual conversation during the scene
>02 light-heartedly say "ecchi" because she's not a stuck up tsundere
>No slap
>an actual conversation starts after the scene

They took the trope, used it for symbolism and built up the world they lived in during the scene.

You have shit taste=/=Characters are shit
Flat characters are okay in anime. Just like how otakus are now flocking on to that Tanuki girl, they can even be popular. However if you have a preference over flat types who can be explained with one or two traits like Miku, it just shows your pleb taste and shouldn't be taken seriously.

In Darling in the Franxx, things are easy to understand.
If something in the show is good or at least okay, then it was made by studio A-1/CloverWorks.
If it's unfunny, has QUALITY, doesn't make sense, or is just badly directed, then it was done by studio Trigger.

pretty much. Trigger is a useless studio

I haven't seen backpedalling this sad since my classmate broke his nose after falling off his bike in middle school.

Gridman was pretty good. I don't think Trigger as a whole is to blame for the fuck-up, I think it's Nishigori's fault for not writing out an ending before-hand.

Gridman is monster of the week faggotry and even then trigger fucked up the ending. Anytime trigger wants to do any semblance of a plot, they absolutely fail.

I didn't say to like it. If you didn't like it fine . Don't rub into our face why you don't like it. Or how much a panty scene bothers you so much even though you are willing to over look it in your favourite anime. In fact I'm asking you to forget about the show because you seems to be personally offended by this show for some reason and thinks anybody liking it as some sort of an enemy lol. Get a life dude. Just watch an anime you don't like and forget about this show.

Nice seething based retard

And now you are reduced to just throwing insults.

But he's right. Having flat characters is not a bad thing, but thinking they are the best aspect of the show is.

Lol. Keep on seething.

How did they fuck up the ending? They tied up all the major plot points, had a fight with the big bad, everybody said goodbye and Akane wakes up.
What's wrong with that???

I don't see anything wrong with that, I am sure there are a lot of people who love Sherlock Holmes to death.

The only thing sad here is writing paragraphs nobody is reading to express how much you hate the show and wasting your time and energy on a thread for a show you don't like lol. Only an ANN writer can be this pathetic.

Why do you feel so persecuted? You must be a life of any party with paranoia this thick, I couldn't care less if you like the show or continue liking the show, it's just called a discussion and sorry, but people have different opinions whether you like it or not.

You read it though.

Sherlock Holmes ain't a flat character unless you are a literature pleb and is not aware of his very complex character, outlook and traits.

Imagine letting a bad show get to you so bad you're still upset even a year later.

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Imaishi would have saved this shit too bad he wasn't that involved in the plot

imagine actually believing this.

Are you trolling? He's THE staple flat character.

Well, since you are illiterate, let's try movies. Literally nothing wrong with liking Indiana Jones, no one walked out of Lost Arc and said "that Belloq fellow was the best!"

I didn't. I just find it tiresome and bothering to see a dead horse being beaten up like this. I don't like the final arc at all for that matter. And it doesn't matter if it's franxx. I have made countess posts like those arguing in favour of SAO-a show I haven't seen one episode of.

Virgin otaku should die and explode in space. Do an Hiro.

change my opinion, this show was fucking shit no matter what happened

Err, good for you? If you are so tired of it then just don't do it, move on already.

>this show was fucking shit no matter what happened
It seems like you already changed your opinion.

Its clear you don't know anything about what flat or developed characters means and seems to be confusing dynamic as developed and static characters with flat characters. Just goes to show you are a literature pleb.

less shit is still shit

becoming marginally less shit isn't being "saved"

Go get a life faggot.

Know what, I should really stop trying to talk sense to people who say Sherlock Holmes isn't a flat character or that flat characters can't be complex. You are only digging your own grave anyway and it's sad to look at.

The one truly good thing about the show was Hiro and Zero Two, which was entirely Nishigori.

Nishigori also ruined it because he's an amateur and none of the staff stopped him when he went on his tangent, but if Imaishi was directing the show it would be just as ruined. Imagine, the original ending of the show they were considering was literally Imaishi's ending.

No, the only thing that could have saved DitF was a staff revolt, from a staff that could see how the show had changed from the original plan. It never stood a chance.

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Lol. Imagine being this retarded.

fine salvaged is the word I should have used

I mean, by all means, convince me Sherlock Holmes isn't a flat character. At this point I am sure you can confuse it with chest size though.

still not accurate.

Again you seems to be confusing flat with static and dynamic with developed. Just goes to show how much of a literature pleb you actually are and not to be taken seriously.

The entire staff liked Mitsukoko and put considerable effort into making the birth scene well animated, whereas they were okay with Hiro and 02 exploding and dying in space in low quality.

You keep saying this phrase, but I don't think you have much of your own to be so mad about it.

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I can't when you are a retard who thinks dynamic means developed. I can only give you some for examples sake. Videl is dynamic character. 18 is a dynamic characters. However Goku is a more developed even if he's a static character. While Vegeta is both dynamic and developed.

The only one mad her is you lol. I'm just enjoying free (You)s from a faggot who is upset people like things he doesn't like.

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Lol, (you) confused static/dynamic when what I was talking about is flat/round, what a waste of time.

What do you think I am doing?

No you are the one who is. Now you are just shitposting because you just realized you were a pleb all this time.
Explain to me Sherlock Holmes in 5 words then.

Seething

Meh, I can't help but see those details as, well, details. The slap isn't as instrumental to the trope for me as the MC finding himself in this situation in the first place is.
To be fair, I tend to stay away from ecchi shows and I absolutely despise this trope so the subtlety is probably lost on me.

it was bad because anime scripts sound like fucking ass and are only glorified because decent animation is put in between people saying sentences no human would ever say

I wasn't even the one who started this conversation, whoever confused it first is the one to blame.

And unlike you I shall finally oblige because you obviously never picked a book in your life.

An ingenious crime solver. He's that throughout every Doyle story and stays that.

Sure, I can buy that it's not a particularly tasteful trope, but if nothing else there was definitely intention behind the trope, so
>blindly following those ecchi anime conventions
doesn't quite fit.

WEEEEEEEEEE

Indeed, now that you mention it, maybe that's going to far.

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>An ingenious crime solver. He's that throughout every Doyle story and stays that.
As I said you are a literature pleb who's confuses flat with static characters(despite your claims that I'm the one who did lol). He staying that way doesn't mean he's flat. You failed to mention anything about his chronic addiction, his advanced level understanding about Chemistry and Biology that you find more likely to find in a doctor than in a crime solver, his complex morality that some readers have regarded him as a psychopath, his reasons for staying single, his relations with his enemies, etc... None of that is expressed in that 5 words.
It's clear you haven't read any literature. Stop pretending like you do. Also nice reddit spacing.

>Anyone who thinks that DitF was bad because of Imaishi
Literally who thinks this? It's very common knowledge that his only involvement with the project was some storyboarding and key animation.

see

Westerners don't even know who Nishigori or Imaishi is, nor would they ever care.
All they see is some pretty looking anime gurl like 02 who is meant to make men's peepee hard.

Ah I see, a troll, 6/10 I took the bait, you are too obvious now.

>None of that is expressed in that 5 words.
Gee, ya think? You try

>final four episodes
you're right, they sucked
>the entire rest of the series
was unironically good

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refer to

>hahaha what a shitpost
Kek whatever helps to float your boat. I'm done arguing with a literature pleb.
I don't have to because I never claimed Holmes was a flat character unlike you retard.

see

Make up any excuse to sleep sounder tonight, I know I will.

You seem to be confusing character with characterstic though.

Those are not just characterstics. There is detailed reasoning for his addiction and bring single, history behind his knowledge and his relationship with other characters were developed throughout the books. You would have known if you read it.

Flat characters aren't devoid of that.

They are. That's what make them flat. You can't describe them but you can't describe 'why'. That's what makes them flat. Again as I said you are confusing static with flat and dynamic with round.

*can describe

That's not how it works.

Third party here, but what's the difference?

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It is
>One of the basic traits of a character is their depth, or how complex they are. Some characters are two-dimensional Flat Characters, with one or a few defining traits that completely define who they are. Rounded Characters go beyond being a stock character with some Back Story and Hidden Depths. They generally have a complex motivation driving them, and may act counter to what their 'type' would suggest. These are the kind of character that have to struggle with choice.
You can't just redefine terms to fit in with your theory just because you can't admit being a retarded plebian in an anonymous board lol.

see Development=/=Changing character after an episode
That's just bad writing. They can change but it has to be in relation with the story. Holmes is an example of a static round character. Some examples in anime would be Luffy, Naruto, Goku, etc...

I blame whoever was responsible for story for not having any ideas for second half when they started.

So... static and dynamic represent how they develop throughout the story, while flat and round decide what role they have in the story?

So an example of a flat dynamic character would be a villian with a change of heart, yet their backstory isn't that fleshed out?
Flat seems completely inane if that's the case, it's nothing more than an insult. You could argue that no character's REALLY flat if you looked deep enough. Or am I just understanding the term incorrectly?

What kind of choice Sherlock struggles with, not to solve a crime?

Indiana Jones finds tresures.
Sherlock Holmes solves mysteries.
Goku fights.

That's what flat characters are, that's what they are. Main characters in long-running fiction are typically flat.

An example of round character would be Raskolnikov. You can't describe him as "Raskolnikov kills grannies".

Maybe. Most of the time words flat and 2 dimensional are just buzzwords thrown to put someone in a defensive position(And since the definition of these terms is so vague that most just fail no matter what to defend their position). It's like calling something is evil or good when politicians debate. Most of the time characters who are flat aren't actually flat (just less developed most of the times).

>You could argue that no character's REALLY flat if you looked deep enough
That's what this user seems to be confusing, he seems to believe that there is a set amount of characteristics per character type. A dude with 2 characterstics is flat, but damn, a dude with 3 charactersitics, now that's round.

Whoever came up with that joke of a sidecast should be shot.
Literally what dragged this show down, even more than ayy lmaos.

In this case he seems to be using "static" correctly, so shouldn't you two be able to come to an agreement?
I thought the "flat/round character" defined how the character develops throughout the story. For round, I assumed it described when things happen in the story that change the character's perspective or how they act, thus their character develops. Then flat would be when we discover something that had happened before in the story to said character via previously unknown facets of their personality or past relations with others and they're developed that way instead.
So either building up a new character or revealing information about a character we didn't know about.

>Homes doesn't struggle with choices
His addiction problems is well documented. So is his problems socializing and enemies he makes due to his actions.
>Homes solves crimes
Yes
Never saw Indiana Jones. Goku is not just le fight xddd character, at least not in dbz.
>Main characters needs to be flat
Double wrong. Take a literature class retard. Flat character as a main spells doom for a show week his actions don't have sufficient justification and he does things just because the author wills it.
Also wrong that Holmes is the main character. Watson is the protagonist in most of the novels.
No, I didn't retard. Either you are an esl with reading comprehension or is an actual retard. Or you are really getting insecure in an anonymous board and misrepresenting my statements lmao.

You are not one to be throwing stones around regarding insecurity. Or reading comprehension.

Not an argument

You don't just have to learn from your own mistakes.

Neither is you literally being wrong.

What a nice post, Zero Tsu~

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retarded melodrama isnt good

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>that webm
jap propagenda