Why was this design ever approved?

I remember when those chapters in the manga released, when his Curse Seal playdoh wings were revealed. I recall the reception being significantly less than positive at least on the forums I frequented at the time.

I wasn't on Yea Forums then, but when I first started seeing the IN THE END AMVs, shit was hype for me and my neighbor friends

How many times did he even use this form? That fight against Naruto as a kid and then the fight against Itachi are all I can remember.

He used it in his fight against diedara I believe

I like how the amazing animators they contracted nope'd out once CC2 sasuke came in

Maybe genius ninja wasn't the right phrase because I didn't mean to imply it as him simply being intelligent like Shikamaru, more in the sense that he was naturally talented when it came to combat and techniques (Shikamaru doesn't have that)

And no, he wasn't only special because of his bloodline or family circumstances, go back and read the early stuff or even watch some of the flash backs in the anime. It was firmly established that before he had the Sharingan and before Itachi slaughtered his entire clan he was way ahead of everyone in his age group. He didn't care about that though since he was always comparing himself to Itachi, both before and after Itachi killing everyone.

Now as the story went on yes, it turned out that having the Sharingan was all that made him special, my point is that it didn't have to be that way and that him as a character and the story as a whole would have been better if it wasn't just a "I'm defined by my genetic bloodline" story. The author went that route, even after something different had been set up initially.

The Uchihas were fine as a plot device to give Sasuke his eye powers and motivations. All of the shit with the Uchiha/Senju multigenerational-reincarnation-rivalry that founded and then betrayed the leaf was completely retarded and boring.
The Sharingan was good when it was eye hax and nothing else. The second half of the story should not have been built around learning its origins and bullshit powers.

Yep

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Remember when the byakugan was said to be stronger than the sharingan? Or how Kakashi was known as the copy ninja that copied over a thousand ninjutsu.

Man the latter parts of Part 1 all the way through Part 2 sure did jump the shark.

I completely forgot that he even had that form
Did they even explain where curse marks came from?

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>It was firmly established that before he had the Sharingan and before Itachi slaughtered his entire clan he was way ahead of everyone in his age group
That really doesn't mean much, especially because the only reason he was ever able to compete with Naruto was because of 1. the curse seal and 2. the sharingan (and the only reason orochimaru gave him the curse seal was because of the sharingan)
In fact, one of the biggest reasons he went to train with Orochimaru was because Naruto was catching up with him, other than the fact that he wasn't strong enough to beat Itachi
Lee beat his ass, he barely survived against gaara, and honestly most of his peers could take him (if you removed the sharingan from his abilities)

Sasuke could have just been a jealous loser who was shat on by his family and then shat on by his teacher for not being as good as the true golden boy, but literally the only reason he was ever in any situation juxtaposed to Naruto, except in the absolute very beginning aka the Waves arc, was the sharingan

the sharingan was set up from the very beginning as being a super special power, so you can't really say that the author set something else up
And even with your argument, take away the sharingan and sasuke is probably as strong as choji

Bootleg Sage Mode

IIRC, it came about from Orochimaru mixing his chakra with some of Jugo's DNA to give the user a way to passively absorb nature chakra.

He did

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How would it be a fare fight with Naruto then ?unless Naruto was severely gimped for his fight with sasuke

Sasuke's design was shit in Shippuuden until he killed Itachi, CC2 was legitimately great in the original.

You are talking about choices the author made like they were the only choices he could have made. I do have to ask you, how long do you think the "set up period" is for a character? You seem to be saying that the setup of a character is something that lasts for 20 chapters.

Go back and read the first 10 chapters and then honestly tell me what you think the setup for that character is.

shut up
it was kino

O MY CONVENIENT CHAKRA SUPPLY

Orochimaru playing good guy the entire time

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Sasuke and Naruto weren't in very good shape. Naruto was a fat kid, a malnourished teenager, and a podgy adult. And Sasuke seemed... husky as a teenager.

God this design was horrible

This might as well be "lol we got away with everything.webm"

Except you are arguing with plot points appearing after the fact that it was decided that Sharingans were God eyes.
Just go back to pre Shippuden and just have Sharingans' power be pre sight and some genjutsu. Even Amaterasu was bullshit, it should have been a Itachi only thing, or a Uchiha forbidden Katon unrelated to their eye

It jumped the shark at the very moment Itachi appeared and made Sasuke a terribly edgy character he wasn't before.

>"tell me, how can the world stand if Yggdrasil isn't there to hold it? Checkmate atheists !"

Villain/Evil form need to look hideous, not handsome

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I actually think it's kinda cool. Really gross and enigmatic. Kinda surreal.

Hideous is one thing. Goofy and ridiculous is another.

Far chunky hand-wings. No.

I like the hands wings. Look like a Tzimisce from world of darkness.
The only things I dislike are the eyes and the lipstick, they were unnecessary.

Sasuke is the angsty rival turned villain
If he couldn't fight on equal terms with the special ability main character, would he really be an effective rival/villain?

Unless they suddenly inserted a different rival/villain, I would bet that Sasuke was set up to be the counterpart to Naruto
And as Naruto was established to be super important because of the kyuubi, you could only expect Sasuke to be almost as important or less

The sharingan was the main reason that
1. the uchiha were so powerful which lead to
2. the uchiha senju rivalry which lead to
3. madara existing as a super strong antagonist which lead to
4. obito controlling kyuubi and
5. the uchiha being treated poorly in the village which lead to
6. the reason itachi was ordered to slaughter his clan which lead to
7. orochimaru taking an interest in sasuke
there's probably more, but honestly
the existence of the sharingan was made so crucial to so many points through out the book, even if you argued what the other dude was arguing
How else would Sasuke become as strong as Naruto or nearly as strong without also having something that is as special as massive chakra reserves (without the sharingan)?

pre-shippuden, orochimaru would have never taken an interest in sasuke, so he never would have left the village
the entire uchiha clan would just be some random clan rather than the main antagonists to the founders of the village, so there'd be no hostility, so itachi wouldn't slaughter anyone

Yeah, the sharingan became super duper important after shippudden, but all of those things were set up from the beginning
You can't argue that those points I mentioned don't count because they were revealed after the time skip, because they are directly responsible for events that happened before the time skip
Technically, they were just revealed after the time skip but they happened pre-pre shippuden

do one better autist

M8 why wouldn't Oro want sharingans if it was the case ? Just presight is bullshit OP, it's just that the power creep that came afterward made it mediocre.

Remember when Naruto was about a literal nobody who everyone hated because he was a prison for a demon whose purpose was to prove that he could be worthy of love through sheer hardwork and determination, and not the fact that his had the best ninja genes?

You're thinking Ceteris Paribus with elements that appeared late in the second part of the manga.
Don't pretend Kishi didn't write as the story went on, he didn't plan anything.

The two other guys probably grew up with the Great Ninja war or something.

It's canon that orochimaru wants sasuke because itachi b him tfo
Also, sharingan genjutsu/super special black flames is also pre-shippuden
sharingan was established to be more than just presight after the re-appearance of itachi, sasuke just doesn't have his own shit down

orichimaru is mad/genius, to lose is a great loss

That's why I said before that some genjutsu would have been ok.
It's everything that came up in Shippuden that is the real problem : fucking ghost mechas ? Seriously ?

nope
the first major fight naruto faced he got a bunch of hax, I mean, fox chakra

They were elements that were introduced later, but they happened, plot wise, before the main story
And even if you can ignore all of that stuff, you still haven't explained how Sasuke would be able to keep up with Naruto who has super amazing fox chakra to back him up

Would Sasuke have to be smarter than Neji, Kakashi, and Shikamaru combined? Would he have to be stronger than Tsunade, Lee/Guy, and Choji? Would he have to have ninjutsu on par with the hokages?

Literally yes
But that's shitty writing, or at the very least, shittier than what Naruto currently is

Okay, but that's still moving away from the point that without the sharingan, Sasuke wouldn't have much going for him
Which is what I'm trying to argue

I agree
Sharingan is hacky as hell
But it's hacky as hell because it's important to the story

I still cannot fucking believe Sasuke actually turned into a demon thing in this god-forsaken, terrible series. Fuck everything, I had completely forgotten about this until just now.

Nah it was ugly and retarded

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Sasuke used to look great. It's a shame he had to ramp up the edgelord after Itachi died.

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That's the manga.

And that's exactly the problem.
Kishi could never write him as a genius he was supposed to be (except maybe during his fight with Gaara, back when he was still a decent character), but as a sharingan babby, asspulling bullshit eye powers every time he needed a power up for plot convenience, leading to one of the worst power creep in the history of manga, beaten only by Tenkuu Shinpan and the Cell Saga.

I agree

Would look decent without the lipstick, the cross on his face and the black eyes.

>sasuke is probably as strong as choji
Dude, Choji is the third physically strongest of their entire class.
There's like Lee, Sakura, Choji POWER GAP then everyone else.

Saying a sharinganless Sasuke is as strong as full power Choji is a disservice to Choji.

>I am more special than you
Naruto had some ridiculous dialogue.

>gets revived
>somehow becomes even more invincible than when he was actually invincible
What was Kishi thinking with Madara?

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And that's why I was arguing that keeping the sharingan power to a minimum would have been the first step to control the power creep.
Maybe give it an ultimate ability that is related to its ability to "read" the flows of chakra, maybe an actual pre science and an ability to directly alter the immediate future, applying your genjutsun on the real world and thus explaining Itachi OPness.
And then make the Byakugan an hard counter of the Sharingan.
Also get rid of that bullshit "Kyubi was a good guy all along !"

physically, yes
but other than that, he doesn't have much going for him
no genjutsu, no mastery of any taijutsu other than big punches
how would he defend against fire attacks? lightning attacks? any sort of strategy sasuke comes up with?

Choji is super fucking strong, but his powerset is limited which means he's near the top of the class in terms of strength, but not in terms of fighting prowess

Kishimoto just got way too carried away with the eyes.

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How could people like this shit.

damn, he got a point there

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he killed millions

He p much sums up why it makes sense to leave him alive at the end of the series.

He's the naruto world equivalent of "nazi scientists used by the allies".

look at the size of those eyes

still better than 90% of one piece designs