Where did Naruto go wrong?

Holy this.

During the Sasuke rescue arc when the author healed Lee and pussied out of killing Neji and Choji.

After the timeskip

Pre-timeskip:
Itachi was a villain
Naruto saw Sasuke as a rival, Sasuke saw Naruto as a road block
Orochimaru was the main villain
Sharingan was balanced and helped during fights
Byakugan was relevant
Mangekyo Sharingan was a powerful, but limited, tool
5 types of ninja magic
Fights are determined by ability

Post-timeskip:
Itachi was a hero
Sasuke saw Naruto as a rival, Naruto homolusted after Sasuke
Orochimaru was a minor villain and the main villain was A̶k̶a̶t̶s̶u̶k̶i̶,̶ ̶P̶a̶i̶n̶,̶ ̶T̶o̶b̶i̶,̶ ̶M̶a̶d̶a̶r̶a̶,̶ ̶O̶b̶i̶t̶o̶,̶ ̶M̶a̶d̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶,̶ ̶B̶l̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶Z̶e̶t̶s̶u̶ Kaguya
Sharingan was overpowered and eye hacks were used all the time
Byakugan was not relevant
Mangekyo Sharingan was even more overpowered and was an unlimited power that could do anything
Dozens of types of ninja magic
Fights are predetermined by destiny

4th Ninja War

Instead of one moment that dropped the quality, it was a bunch of moments added up together.

Objectively: With Boruto. It's an insult to the franchise. Shippuden is a masterpiece.

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after the land of waves arc

that's as far as the author planned ahead and the rest was just making up bullshit as he goes along

after chunnin exams. It went to shit after the pain arc. The biggest problem for me is that Naruto in the zabuza and chunnin exams arc felt like he was a part of a greater ninja world. Everything after that felt like the world was changing around what naruto and sasuke wanted.

I remember once Kakashi saying the Byakugan was more powerful than the Sharingan.

Naruto told the story it wanted to tell almost perfectly, there was only one thing that went bad, and went bad so monumentally that it had ripple effects across the entire plot: childhood romance. Kishimoto's insistence on shoving his childhood experience of unrequited love and ikumen worship into the narrative ruined the little remaining suspended disbelief the story allowed.

from the start.

Its when kishi stopped developing the side characters, made all these interesting characters in the naruto and stopped giving them attention in shippuden just to focus on fox boy, uchiha clan and edge boy. After tailed beasts were fully revealed it just turned into dragon ball. While naruto was about hardwork beating talent and destiny, shippuden just made naruto ninja jesus.

Nagato death

>Where did Naruto go wrong?
uchihaniggers took over the plot

when the mangekyo was introduced

fpbp

this. even if Naruto being praised for first time was cool, the damage was done.

faggot

after chuunin exams

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Chapter 1.

Chapter 1.

I never bought Naruto and Sasuke bond/friendship. It was not built up.

So, It never made sense why Naruto was so obsessed with Sasuke.

Pain arc.
Also fate bullshit and Naruto and Kurama being friends.

emo sasuke ruined the manga

Honestly nothing of value would be lost of Neji and Chouji died back then. Neji was already irrelevant when he was actually killed off.

Because Kishi is a closet homosexual who had strange feelings about his brother and project it onto Naruto. That is the only explanation.

fuck off narutards

literally when he died

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this
and more specifically, this:

>Sauce should've at least turned neutral with Taka after Itachi died.

I forgave a lot of bullshit throughout this series but Sasuke dropping any pretense of reason for his motivation after Itachi died and going full-blast psycho edgelord was the last straw

after that I basically didn't even read the words anymore, just looked at the pictures and enjoyed the big explosions

welp, don't the byakugan lets you see where to hit someone to make them shit their pants, also you can abuse the heck out of it and probably pull out more shit like the raikiri with less danger than the sharingan

The moment he started existing.

it is better in general the only problem is that kishimoto had a fucking hard on for the uchiha so the only people who had sharingan were the ones who found out its "secrets" aka bullshit power ups. anything below a mangekyou sharingan is trash compared to the byakugan

>Naruto is initially presented as an underdog
>Uzumaki genes
>Kurama can literally solo the other 8 tailed beasts
>ninja jesus
>somehow masters sage mode in months despite Jiraiya spending years for an incomplete transformation
>Kishimoto: "Naruto is an underdog story."

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Asspulls after asspulls. Then Naruto being the chose one aka gay ninja Jesus along side with gay ninja Judas Sasuke.

Personally, I blame the power creep. At the beginning, a major threat was a dude with a big sword who could summon mist to hide himself and was really good at moving quietly. At the end of it we had people throwing around meteors and blowing up mountains and creating giant magic pseudo-mecha. Fucking ridiculous.

Fuck everyone, Naruto was perfect until it was revelead he was the second coming of Jesus Christ, which happened at the very end of the story, everything should have been over with Madara BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, muh team 7 amright bois, fuck Kishimoto.

Naruto transformations were kinda shitty. Like those chakra hands he started extending from his chakra body.

Orochimaru going from main villain to something more ambiguous could be explained partially by him basically knowing the backstory, which I think is something that'll eventually come up in Boruto. If he at least knew about the ayys, or at least cobbled together something from dicking around with Senju genetics+Sharingan+Kimimaro, the thing he pulled at the Chunin exam is almost justified. If he brings in a stack of research on the Ōtsutsuki every few months, him being out on good behavior is almost justified and it's likely he's been promised a ayy body at some point and he doesn't have a reason to be proactive.

as soon as sasgay showed up, it was shit

The yellow chakra coat was overall lame. His previous Kyuubi transformations with the red chakra and blood were cool, specially the 6 tails. I'm also pissed Naruto was never able to control those forms or transform into a proper 9 tailed fox.

i'd say either at the point snakeguy resurrects the dead hokages or the power creep after that fight

Yeah, I'm just not a fan of transformations in general. They're cool the first few times they're used but it gets lame when the character ends up using it all time.

It also doesn't help that most of his transformations looked like shit. The only transformation that looked decent was his Six Paths Sage Mode.

Part 1 should have been like 150 chapters longer than it was and Part 2 should have been 150 chapters shorter than it was. I wish we got more of Team 7 going on missions to show them bonding.

In some ways, I feel that Naruto and Sasuke's relationship was a retcon. Sure, they were rivals and pretty close but the whole "Naruto and Sasuke are the only people in the world who truly understand each other" thing felt pretty forced to me. Hell, Naruto seemed closer to Sai and Shikamaru than he did to Sasuke.

When they started making the anime despite the manga not being finished. The filler is the only thing wrong with Naruto, and especially with part 2. Part 1 filler is at least 95% concentrated into one block of episodes you can skip.

What I don't about his Six Paths mode is that it looks almost the same as his chakra control mode. I wish he had white incorporated into that mode to make him more similar to Madara and Hagoromo. It would have looked more consistent.

I don't remember that. I remember Kakashi saying that it's theorized that sharingan is a mutation of byakugan and that byakugan is superior in terms of perception.

this desu.

The Pein arc should've been the final arc.

I'm so glad studios like Bones have realized that trying to pump out an episode every week for years straight doesn't work.

I just wish Pierrot or Toei would adopt a similar strategy.

Yooo Sai and Naruto were totally bro tier. Their interactions during that arc were great and the whole team with Sakura and Yamato was fun to watch/read. I wish they had stayed relevant and replaced Sasuke and Kakashi in the team.

Orochimaru should've been the one to bring about the Edo Tensei and be the final boss for the Uchiha bros, not fucking Kabuto.

*After the Sasuke Retrieval Arc.

Nah, the series went downhill a bit but there were still some good ideas after the Pain arc. It was just bogged down by a lot of stupid stuff.

The fourth ninja war was kinda dumb but the stuff with Kage Summit and Danzo was cool. So was Naruto conquering his darkness and befriending Kurama (although it should have taken longer). Hashirama and Madara's backstory was also solid. Even the transmigrant business wasn't too bad other than the ninja jesus power ups.

The Fourth Shinobi War would have been passable if it wasn't: All the villages vs. Plants & Zombies. I wanted a real war with actual conflict between other people. Obito should have rallied up some of the smaller villages or something.

It would have great if Orochimaru was the one to side with Tobi, that way the sound village gets involved and happens

That would have tied nicely into Pain's backstory, too. Wasn't part of Pain's whole deal that Amegakure got ravaged in the crossfire of Konoha and the other great villages war?

I liked Kabuto's role in the war, but I don't think Sasuke and Itachi should have been the ones to defeat him. It destroyed the tension because we knew FULL WELL Sasuke wouldn't die or receive permanent injuries because he needed to fight Naruto in the future and Itachi was a fucking zombie, so it didn't matter what happened to him, he was already fucking dead. The whole battle was merely based on people wondering "Exactly how will Kabuto get BTFO?"

This. Splitting up the team dynamic is where everything went to shit.

I hate how no one actually got it by killing their best friend. Shisui got his off screen and then killed himself so Itachi could get his, Madara & his bro got theirs off screen, Kakashi killed Rin by accident and Obito got it too because their eyes are connected.

They made a big deal of having to betray your best friend to gain power thing but no one actually does that to get the Mangekyo.

Only Sasuke actually kills someone close to him and even then it wasn't a betrayal.

It was always wrong.

Everything wrong with Naruto began in the Haku fight
>My special bloodline is better than your special bloodline
>no my special bloodline is the most specialist
>fuck your shit Imma fox and you hurt muh friends!

Neji was right all along.

When hinashit won instead of sasuke

The bloodline shit wasn't relevent until after Shipudden you brainlet. We only found out that Naruto was Uzamaki until then and why are you bitching about Haku? The Zabuza arc was hands down the best Naruto arc by a landslide.

Bur Sasuke won. Why else would Naruto spend time with him in the forest instead of both ot them going to their families?

Somewhere during the War arc

Thinking back, the whole second Sasuke retrieval arc is basically worthless
>Naruto and Sakura teams up with some new characters that ultimately barely matters
>They have a drawn out fight with Orochimaru that achieves nothing
>They meet Sasuke who tells them to fuck off
>The End

Chapter 101

More like when he fudged killing Sasuke.

When Naruto returned from the timeskip with no new jutsus or anything, I still find it funny how he achieved more with one week training at toad mountain than he did in 2 years

By not making Sasuke a woman, plus all the sharingan powerups. Being a woman would explain all of his actions.

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Japanese friendship is like that. Goku and Vegeta just fight all the time.

Because editors. One mission and already a tournament. Fuck shueisha and their obsession with dragon Ball.

/thread

When the sharingan went from "copy moves and in super rare case make super illusions" to "summon black holes and obtain god mode".

>black holes?
>obtain god mode?
What in the blue fuck are you talking about?

When Sausage kiss Narumo

Kamui. Teleportation, intangibility and summon portals.

>tfw realise Naruto and Sasuke barerly interact between The Forest of Death and Sasuke retrieval arc.
Part 1 was already rushed as fuck, Zabusa arc is peak Naruto

Part 1 is a masterpiece, almost biblical.

Shippuden is where it went to shit but the real error was Orochimaru getting nerfed to wank retarded and uncharismatic characters.

the time skip was when it became trash. It peaked with rock lees fight since he's the only character who followed the moral that kishi was trying to push at the start and then gave up when he made everyone else good based on genetics

Well, part of Naruto's destiny was to either kill or be killed by Sasuke so technically he still defied fate.

The quality of the manga drops a lot after the timeskip and edo tensei is a trash idea the exact moment everything went to shit was when madara threw out a second meteor

I hate how Team 8 didn't get any good fights post timeskip.

>Team 10 fights 2 Akatsuki members
>Team Guy fought their clones and Kisame
>Guy fights Kisame a second time + Obito and Madara
>Team 8 gets nothing

Even during the war arc, they didn't get to do much other than fight some fodder White Zetsu.

Why does it feel that Kishi always rushes to the big arcs when he should've done more fillery arc like Zabuza? Before the Chunin exams to expand the Konoha 11. Before the Pain arc, to show the other villages and resolve properly Kisame, Deidara, Konan and Obito (he should never have been as important as he was and should've part of an arc that focuses on Kakashi). Kishi has good ideas, just has poor execution. Pain arc is still the best.

it could've been something less extreme like
>oh I could revive some people maybe half the village
no he fucking revives everyone

When Kishi revealed Itachi was good all along despite everything he previously did.

>people unironically saying that naruto was ever good
GTFO

But before that Itachi was just an edgelord who destroyed his entire clan and left Sasuke alive for no reason

And after he was autist who killed his clan and family just because Danzo told him so.

I always thought Itachi was a trash character. Him being a good guy all along was such an obvious retcon.

But the Uchihas are evil degenerates that were planning a coup. Itachi carried out the orders because he knew it was the best for the village. Danzo was based and so was Tobirama. Fuck Uchihas.

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This. Fuck Uchihas and fuck jannies

Fujos were angry with Sai taking Sasuke's spot

They were planning a coup because Danzo relocated them to the outskirts, watched them and cut their police budget after the incident with the Kyuubi. But it was rogue Uchiha who did it, lone wolf. Uchiha clan was innocent.

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But that rogue Uchiha was born in the clan, wasn't him? And he had those turbo autism Uchiha genes in him, didn't he? No Uchihas can be trusted.

>turbo autism Uchiha
What turbo autism? They awaken ms when they suffer, but they don't necessarily go crazy from it. Besides ms is rare, only 3 Uchiha in Konoha had ms in time of Uchiha massacre.

Except if Sasuke was a woman, Naruto and her rivalry wouldn't have been the way it was. But you better believe that Sasuke would have won the Naruto.

This

Chunin exam

>he

>Beginning
Too much filler, too many (already seen) flashbacks.
It's a 200-300 episode series, but came out as a 700 monstrodick

>Eye hax
Around Uchihax never relax

Indeed

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There is literally nothing wrong with being Uchiha.

>implying that Itachi was sane

He had a mind of hokage in seven years.

Spee D. Reader

When Naruto said that he'd rather stay an idiot than give up on Sasuke, it shown that Naruto who finds his own way is gone. Gone was Naruto that was willing to break Sasuke's limbs to drag him back to Konoha, the era of Naruto that was a faggot for Sasuke started.
Then came time skip. Naruto was taller, but he didn't learned a thing during that time, not even something he could learn and what Jiraiya shown in the series by that point (Toad Oil Bullet). Readers of the series that started it along Zabuza Arc have grown, but the theme of the series lost maturity from those early arcs, and became more childish over time.
Pain Arc and even the Summit were good to great, and I don't mind Gedo Rinne Tensei, but War Arc was the epitome of wasted potential.
That being said, Naruto hyperventilating was absolutely wordt moment of the series, but at least War Arc had 2nd Mizukage as its sole redeeming factor.

He had ahokage level wisdom at 7, and full mastery over basic Sharingan by next year or so. At 13 he awakened MS and since then his mind only went worse, though his idiocy at earliest can be seen with how he handled learning existence of unknown Uchiha whom he himself guessed had to be Madara - not telling anyone, be it Fugaku, Hiruzen, or even Danzo, and that could have prevented both Massacre and Shisui's death.

Before Episode 1

Kishimoto sure sucked his dick non stop.

>Inbreed
>Emotionally unstable
>Obsesive
>Borderline personality disorder
>Violent
>Emo
>Autism
There's a lot of shit that comes from being an Uchiha, I don't see the benefits really.
>Inb4 muh eyehax

It's kind of amazing how stupid it all sounds when you type it out like that.

He was a stupid character before the reveal, but the reveal made him even stupider. So he was a secret good guy, but he almost destroyed Kakashi's mind via Tsukuyomi just because?

I honestly wished they just made a new series in a different village. I like seeing technology and innovation in the Hidden Leaf but I want to see different cultures and people. Like make it in the Cloud Village or something. I didn't give a shit who married who or what brat they spawned the whole roster sucks dick obviously except for Shikadai who's actually putting work in.

I mean, he also destroyed Sasuke's life and gave him the final push to go with Orochimaru and we have to pretend he did it to protect Sasuke and we also have to pretend Sasuke forgave him once he learned the truth... so make out of that whatever you want lmao

*ahem*
Fuck Uchihas

What was Itachi's plan anyway? Why did he do all that, and act surprised when it turned out psychologically torturing your little brother for years might turn him evil?

Because his editors are cunts. Seriously if he didn't have them he probably would've expanded on the story...but naruto probably wouldn't be as popular with it's filler arcs. BUT THAT'S WHAT STUDIO PIERRO SHOULD HAVE DONE BY TALKING TO KISHIMOTO ABOUT ARCS HE WANTED TO DO.

Why is it that his assistant is the only one who gets that? Not that it doesn't excuse the crap they try to get away with in boruto but still though.

>destroyed Kakashi's mind via Tsukuyomi just because?
He has to keep up appearances.
He thought it was a good idea at the time, Sasuke would have a clear goal and enemy, and he’d end up as a pretty cool guy since he would have beaten an infamous criminal.
He didn’t really think it through as much as he should have, and by the time he realized he fucked up, he couldn’t do much until he was reanimated and Sasuke already knew.

Why did Itachi tell Sauce to kill Naruto to get special eyes?

Removing Sasuke and Sakura, or changing their roles, would have made the show infinitely better.

Because he thought it was a good idea at the time.
Telling him that, I mean, I'm not sure if he actually wanted Sasuke to do it or if that was supposed to be reverse psychology.

How to change Sauce
>a lot more time spent developing his and Naruto’s relationship into friends past LoW
>sauce is not pure edge and has that “asshole with a heart of gold” deal I though he had during LoW and parts of Team Taka, show him caring about his former team but saying that he has resolved himself in killing Itachi
>returns to the Leaf Village after Itachi dies but depressed and disillusioned with the shinobi world to setup the Naruto fight at the end

Sakura
>remove her

Keep Sakura. She was good.

I thought Sakura had a decent character arc going but if stopped too soon.

The whole thing with her looking down on Naruto and then realizing that she's actually less capable than he is and resenting herself for it was good. So was her feeling helpless about Sasuke leaving and resolving herself to get stronger. She was a badass at the beginning of Shippuden and then Kishimoto just stopped developing her for some reason. It's like she had a half a character arc and then Kishimoto forgot what he started writing until the end of the war arc and tried to shoehorn it back in.

Keep Sakura in the story, but not on the same team as Naruto and Sasuke, and give her more character development than she actually got.

After Itachi died

chapter 1
naruto is a terrible protaganist

Great Ninja War. Anime was a pain to watch during that Arc.

>He thought it was a good idea at the time
But why? There are multiple ways that idea could have fucked up. Only a retard would think it was a good idea at the time, not a ninja who has Kage-level wisdom according to other Hokages.

Specifically the end of the Pain arc, where he revives everyone.

fpbp
You can tell the author probably originally intended for the series to end there.

>Where did Naruto go wrong?

After the Zabuza arc

cringe

The True Begining of the End.

this. Back when the akatsuki were actually formidable opponents and naruto still used some technique, skill and handsign jutsu. Toad sage mode was the best desu. Everything became too overpowered later on and thus boring.

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Even at the peek of the series' power creep the strategy never went away. The scale of battles went up but they still used strategy to win most fights.

fpbp
thank you based user

Well, at the risk of sounding like somebody who hates the whole Uchiha clan, he's an Uchiha, and they aren't exactly known for making the best decisions.
Plus, "Kage-level wisdom" isn't exactly a super big accomplishment when you actually looka bunch of the Kage, because many of them have fucked up bigtime.
>Gaara's dad essentially tried something similar to what Itachi tried with Sasuke but with his youngest son instead
>Hiruzen, as much as I like the guy, made a lot of mistakes
>Dust Man (forgot his name and don't have time to look it up) fucks something up in Bort because his son died
>I think Kagura was involved in starting the kekkei genkai genocides that killed Haku's mom and no doubt plenty of other people
>Naruto is still kind of a goof even though he's the Hokage

Never, its a flawless masterpiece

Boruto might prove that right

Everyone here is brain dead and have no clue what the fuck they're talking about.

It was alright early on but it aged poorly.

nah