Who else hates pretentious shit?

If that's what you consider pretentious i'd hate to see what you consider good.

idiot teen

>obvious
It was about what the JSDF's place should be in Japan's and the world's sphere. It was made to reflect Oshii's own thoughts about the matter but it doesn't pretend to be more that what it is, which is what being pretentious actually means. Just because the structure and tone of the movie (and seemingly all of Oshii's movies) doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's pretentious.

When you pick up a fun series that doesn't take itself too seriously and force your shitty existential/philosophical babblering that goes nowehere for no reason (Beautiful Dreamer, Patlabor 2).

>my favorite anime are texhnolyze, NGE, and lain. jin roh and patlabor are the best

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braneltes

plotfags should be gassed

Fair enough, but there's a difference between merely stating the obvious and being nonsensical.
The latter case can be much worse, but then it's still a matter of how serious the anime takes itself.
No doubt few things are more annoying than a super serious pseudointellectual show.

Patlabor from the start was intended to be several different things rather than a single thing. The manga has serious stuff as well as more comedy stuff. The original OVA (which was directed by Oshii) had both silly and serious episodes (the last couple episodes seem like a test for what would eventually become Patlabor 2). The first movie, also directed by Oshii, was more in line with what I imagine you consider the "real" Patlabor but Oshii is one of the creators of the franchise and so has more authority over what Patlabor is than some idiot on an image board that probably only watched the TV series.

Oshii didn't even write any of the Patlabor stuff. He only directed them. They were all written by the same person, though the TV series had a few writers, which did include Oshii.

>It was made to reflect Oshii's own thoughts about the matter but it doesn't pretend to be more that what it is
It does though, the whole JSDF plot (which is over the top and convenient) is at the end just an excuse to reflect about the inherent hypocrisy/injustice of IR in "peaceful" states. If you are completely ignorant about politics I'd it could be interesting, if not it doesn't really add anything to the discussion as I said.

Oshii is an artist, not a politician. Just because something has already been discussed doesn't mean it can't be put into art. And nothing about this either is "pretending to be more than what it is", which again, is what pretentious means. Rarely when someone calls something pretentious does it actually fit this definition. The word has basically come to mean "something I don't like".

Why do so many people value animation and visuals above all else in an anime? If you don't care about the important elements of anime like profound themes, well-developed characters and a thought-provoking plot, then you're wasting your time with watching anime.

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>Oshii is an artist, not a politician.
That's not a bad point but even then that's exactly why I'm dubious about the success of political works like this when they focus more on sentimentalism rather than a sober analysis, the way politics morals work isn't the same as "regular" morals. I aprecciate Jin-roh a lot more in that regard because the political conflict is just the sub-plot, but the focus is always put on the ethical conflict of the characters and how their respective groups alienate their humanity, it's just more appropiate imo.

Evangelion isn't pretentious. It is poorly written.

I don't hate pretentious works and in fact I enjoy some of them.
Instead I hate their fans with a passion.

>Why do so many people value animation and visuals above all else in an anime
Hmm, something to do with the fact that it is above all else a audio visual medium?

Eva is a generation's first teen anime with a literally me mc.

Patlabor 1>2.

>Believing that cartoons aimed at children, teenagers and young adults should be more than that

This kind of mindset ruined videogames.

>muh purity of field isn't respected ina n unrelated media

>the important elements of anime like profound themes, well-developed characters and a thought-provoking plot,
The fuck? Why are these more important than animation and visuals?

>muh unrelated media tries to handle complex fields with muh feels

I more or less agree with this but something about the way the plot develops in 1 just makes it feel less rewatchable than Patlabor 2.

>I get to dictate who a medium is or should be aimed to and think that people working in the medium should all make the same thing rather than trying to see what more they can do with the medium
Imagine what film or music would be like if people followed your train of thought.

I do.

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Anime is meant to be watched for the story and themes, something you can take with you and gain knowledge from. Anime with artsy animation for the sake of being artsy, aesthetics, great visual direction, lots of sakuga moments almost always comes at the price of having an awful storytelling, nonsensical narrative flow and poorly written characters.

Fuck off to MoMa then

>Films start aiming to blind people so they become sound-only
>Music start aiming at deaf people so they become a visual medium where pretty colors substitute the music
That's what would happen. You take something precious and turn it into sewage because you want to change it into something it isn't.

I sure do.

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>Anime is meant to be watched for the story and themes, something you can take with you and gain knowledge from
not that i disagree with your other inferences but you went full retard on this one.

You seem like you have a narrow view of what makes good narrative flow, story, and characters

>Anime is meant to be watched for the story and themes
Says who?

This image is either bait or depressing.

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That's a highly questionable statement.
Anime is not special in regards to story and themes compared to novels or manga.
Animation is what makes it an anime, and as such it's of central importance to the medium; without it you wouldn't need to make it an anime.
Of course this means anime storytelling, just like movies, is inferior to more specialized media like books.
With adaptions the writing does not depend on the anime either, but rather what it was adapted from, though naturally this comes with its own challenges.

Madoka is unironically a masterpiece. I don't like it because it's a deconstruction or whatever, I like it because it is anime with perfect execution. No other anime can even compare to what Madoka has done with its visuals, soundtrack and character designs to narrate a story with actual depth. It takes advantage of everything, even using the ED as a way to signal a shift in tone. Its pacing is perfect, fitting a rich narrative in 12 episodes. It's not like "it gets good at xx episodes", it is ideal from beginning to end. Its immeasurable success was caused by not only its excellent advertisement but also by the show's overall quality. Madoka excels in every department of anime and perfected the medium in an unimaginable way. It might never be topped. It will be remembered as a classic even 300 years from now. Rebellion is also perfection. Have you ever seen an anime movie that can deliver such beautiful, symbolic visuals and a meaningful story at the same time? Madoka Magica is a rarity in anime, as it has both style and substance. Even Utena and Princess Tutu don't have perfect executions.

I think HxH and Ping Pong are not pret shit, I mean, they don't have an overcomplicated plot for the sake of being complicated.
They're good stories, easy to follow, even to people that don't know bout anime.
But whatever.

>visuals
>soundtrack
>character designs
fuck off.

I think that viewpoint is tied to the history of the medium, since early studios were limited in budget, they chose to put emphasis on storytelling rather than animation.
Anime is mostly limited animation and CG after all, so traditional animation nerds would find it inferior in that regard.

Madoka was ruined to me cuz the loli fandom is cancer as shit.
Yes, a fandom ruined my experience, it's childish and all, but that's what i felt.

Evangelion is boring
Asuka and Rei are annoying
Misato is our true queen
But
That anime is still 6/10

>Films start aiming to blind people so they become sound-only
They already started aiming at people with hearing decades ago and started having actual audible dialogue. As well as aiming for people instead of dogs by adding color. Also your examples are shit and make no sense.

>Of course this means anime storytelling, just like movies, is inferior to more specialized media like books.
Why?

I guess that explains why someone might feel that way, but it doesn't excuse it and is still really dumb.

If the characters and writing sucks, no even the best animated piece of work will save it from sinking into the depths of forgettable mediocrity. Period.

This is the world's absolute shitest thread.

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Your name is more substance than style, but pretty much.
Until they fixed it w. the Rebuilds

I can't BELIEVE there are still people who think like this. Thank god this mindset seems to be dying off.

It's down to length mostly, or information density, if you will. You can pack more raw storytelling in one hour worth of novel than into 2 episodes of anime.
Of course this is not absolutely true since anime does present information text does not or differently, like visual and design details, sound, voices, and such, but these have a lower raw story content than text, like someones voice doesn't add much on the story side of things, or which color the wall is.

Yes, but that's still the default case. Most movies or anime are highly mediocre, but so are plenty of books.
No matter the fact it's important to play to the strengths of the medium you use.
If you want to go crazy with pure storytelling a novel might be best, if you want to focus on fancy artistic styles you'll need a manga or anime.
Most things fall somewhere between the extremes, but it's always a tradeoff.

While I liked Patlabor 1, it left a sour taste when it turned out that the antagonist had no motive/he was just insane. It felt like it was building to something more than that.

It's bait. All of those shows are easy to understand.

>perfect blue
i know this is a bait image but why perfect blue? it wasn't even that deep.

Only thing I can think people wouldn't get is the fish, and only if they are really dumb.

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Probably because it's directed by Satoshi Kon and lots of people here like it. Still think Paprika would've been better.

They need it in order to feel better about themselves. Everything is about insecurities in this case, where they have the need to justify themselves because they're watching anime.
Cartoon and animated-like content have this "childish, immature" reputation and they don't want to be view as such. This is where elitism come from.

style IS substance

I disagree, I think storytelling, narrative, and characterisation can be communicated just as well through the information that you listed, including voice acting.
The colour of the wall might not be important, but the look of the setting definitely can be, and anime can communicate that far quicker and in more detail than a book would.

>The word has basically come to mean "something I don't like".
Well yes. That's true for any negative word on the Internet and Yea Forums specifically.

What did user mean by this?

>This is where elitism come from.
I would say pretension is related to insecurity, as a way to to fit in, while elitism is more of a force contrary to that, used to negate others a position they don't "deserve".
Kind of how a 12yo kid trying to act older gets dismissed by a 20 something, because the latter is actually "old".

>anything I can't understand is pretentious

pretentious lost it's meaning on this board a long time ago.

It's okay to be elitist.

Pretentiousness is a stupid concept regardless. There's no need to dumb down art in order to appeal to the mindless masses.

The very last scenes of the Evangelion manga were far more fulfilling than the last ones of End of Evangelion.

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End of Evangelion is great and so is Angel Egg.

Patlabor 2 is pretty shitty though. Mostly because the plot is boring and very few of the original characters do anything in it.

That the commonly held belief that narrative and character writing in anime is the most important part (the substance), while the visuals are secondary and only enhancements (the style), is wrong. The visuals can be just as "substantial" as writing.

It's not elitism, it's retard-playing-elitist.

Eva
>pure genius
EoE
>a great way to end the series
Patlabor
>for brainlets
Egg
>it's okay
OP
>pic related

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Those two are unrelated things.
Pretentiousness is to appear to be something while not actually possesing the qualities required for it. It is an art thing.
The "dumbing down" makes sense since you have to make money, you may as well make your anime easy to consume, in this case adding fanservice, making the character cute, or wathever the market demands. It is a product thing.

If you thought Patlabor 2 was pretentious just wait until you see Sky Crawlers

>Fauxlosophy

If I wanted to watch something with a deep theme, I'd watch a Bresson or. Tarkovsky film. I watch anime purely for animation and aesthetic.