5ch: One Piece sucks now. It can't stay interesting because there is no rival

Blackbeard rivals him. Coby rivals him.

>Coby

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Just make someone sort of like Katakuri in that they can go toe to toe with Luffy, but they DON'T do the weird "Welp gonna intentionally injure myself to make this fight fair." shit. Or the weird "refuse aid from my allies" shit.

An entertaining rival to Luffy is someone who is exploiting Luffy's weakness but still fighting him.

We could also add a new crew member who is just a vocal dick about the Strawhats and their dreams

No rival at the moment but we've got like 10 different assholes preparing to fuck Wano's lubed up independent butthole six ways to sunday.

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>It can't stay interesting because there is no rival.

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Anyone else that's trying to find the one piece is his rival

But One piece has always been like that, pre-TS there was also no real defined rival. Maybe Zoro for the first 2-3 volumes, but that's it. You could say Blackbeard is a rival opposed to villain, but he was introduced pretty early on in the series.

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>rivals are what make shonen good
imagine being so fucking stupid that you dont even understand the literal simplest genre there is.

So nips are also fightfags? sad

>weird "Welp gonna intentionally injure myself to make this fight fair." shit
youtube.com/watch?v=fc99HcPgKmk&t=3m10s
never gonna make it

You mean Blackbeard

>there is no rival

ZEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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No, he's a shitty badly built up antagonist that might be a decent villain in the future.
Luffy has whitebeard to fight against or measure himself against.
The closest he had was big-moms son, but LUFFY GOTTA WIN NO MATTER WHUT and they threw any potential that had out of the window in the least liked and least satisfying endings to a fight in OP history..

He only has one potential archrival and he's too busy being an immortal god and fucking hot robot bitches on the moon.

>I want this to be exactly like everything else

No, he's the final boss.
Smoker was supposed to be the rival, before Oda decided that he didn't really like him and refused to retcon his existence.

I think rival trope is absolutely stupid. Interesting villains are enough.

I guess OP means something like Ashs Gary, Dekus Bakuhatsu-kun and early Narutos Sasuke.

5ch is just garbage, they hate literally anything, even cute girls fighting.

I mean, the main appeal of a rival is to reflect someone who you are catching/keeping up with. Luffy's on a constant quest to prove himself. He doesn't need a dedicated rival to help ground his strength.

They forgot Kobe?

They're talking about a rival series you fucking retards.

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Yeah, because he always is the real undadog till he ass pulls a stupid as fuck victory.
It's been the norm for a lot of chapters now, and he needs villains that he can't just bullshit a win out of. He needs some that he has to prepare for completely and has a REAL NO BULLSHIT HE COULD LOSE BADLY fight with.

he'll never catch up with luffy, he's just another groupie now

>fightfag doesn't understand the katakuri fight yet again

>Blackbeard
>Final boss
huh ?

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>We could also add a new crew member who is just a vocal dick about the Strawhats and their dreams
you don't understand one piece
stop reading it

>the main appeal of a rival is to reflect someone who you are catching/keeping up with
Shanks fits as a main rival.

Kind of I guess. Bleach and naruto are gone now and the others can't really compete with the series.

LOL
This nigga got jokes.
Colby is a bitch user.
No one cares about him and he'll never equal Luffy.
Shit he'll never become the kind of character that could even equal Garp at his absolute weakest.

That's even dumber. Blame the other series for not being good enough.

Shanks isn't his rival and never will be.
Luffy doesn't have what shanks has as a character and making him his rival will change how the series flows and they will have to naturally change Luffy's entire fucking personality for it to work.

Well hunter x hunter could rival one piece if togashi let someone else draw for him and it is weekly.

5ch loves HxH

The hell is with Japs and their boners for rivals? It's like they absolutely need one even if it's to the detriment of any given Shonen(Naruto, MHA). It's fucking absurd.

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Thanks for proving you aren't worth discussing with.

>no rival

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That's even more retarded
That just sounds like they want to start series wars but they realize that there's no series than can seriously say it's equal to one piece.

Hello brainlet, katakuri is no mere pirate but an honorable warrior.

Sorry, can you speak up?

You can't stop the Wano hype bruh. The official One Piece channel hired a professional narrator to narrate the whole arc. It doesn't really matter what some random 5ch thread thinks when Wano's going to be the best arc so far anyway. People who doubt that are imaginationlets.

youtube.com/watch?v=UkpQUjvYxaw

>>We could also add a new crew member who is just a vocal dick about the Strawhats and their dreams
In what retarded world would someone want to travel around with an asshole like that? Imagine Luffy asking Bellamy to join his crew instead of punching him in the face.

you just have to read, illiterate-kun

No

You don't need a rival to have a good series however, a good rival will bring out the best/worst qualities of your heroes and vice versa.

The problem with One Piece is the problem with most Shounen in that the infinite line of guys that just happen to be stronger than the MC keep predictably keep coming and knocked down with seemingly no end.

I know Yea Forums hates it's food analogies but I would like to link manga to food specifically milk , the longer you keep it the worst it gets, Naruto took 14 years to fucking end and while most of Yea Forums seems content with it even continuing on to Boruto, it was still a slog and almost didn't make it to a point where majority view the end or story as a whole in positive light now think about that 14 years and compare it to the even older OP, One Piece is bad because it's overstayed its welcome.

Seriously, though. It's not like the series was ever in danger of falling low enough to worry anyone. Also the last years of Naruto didn't seem to profit from competition at all.

Nah user, Imu first of all is not a boss, he's weak, that's why he's hiding. Second he'll job to BB

So just like Yea Forums then.

It comes from an inability or unwillingness to deviate from the norm. It's why you see people falling down when someone says something stupid. Anime-isms are here to stay.

>Yaraon

It's even dumber when you realize One Piece has never had a "rival" series in Japan. Even when Naruto and Bleach were big, One Piece far eclipsed them.

>rent free

Whats everyones favorite One Piece OP?
We Are! is the obvious answer, and I believe its a true kino. However, We Go! has grown on me in such a way. That "JIRETTAI!" is one of my favorite notes ever hit in an op.

Explain the fight with Donquixote and the recent katakuri fight?

3 headcanon in one sentence. The absolute state of BBfags.

WSJ/Toei tried to make Toriko the rival if that means anything

>You can't stop the Wano hype
This. It's surreal, I even know one who dropped it with the timekip that started catching up again just for this.

Hard Knock Days, Hope, One Day, Fight Together, Share The World, Crazy Rainbow Star

Wow it's almost if One piece is a fucking shonen aimed to young boys and adolescent ??? You guys need constant reminders that you're all adults now and you are able to see the flaws in a fucking teenage show ? Or is it that you want One piece to be more than it is because you're insecure about yourself watching it ?

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Nana and death note surpassed it in yearly manga sales but that’s before op blew up even more with marineford arc and strongworld movie.

>Mc fights guy
>Mc wins
>Mc fights stronger guy
wow congratulations you figured out the formula for the shonen genre
Not only does one piece do this formula well but it keeps it fresh and keeps advancing the plot foreward
Your complaints for one piece can be applied to literally any other long running shonen and no one would tell the difference

The only rival I can think of is Blackbeard. He also wants to find one piece, but the problem is Luffy hasn't encountered him in a looong time. He just shows up in papers or in a conversation causing trouble somewhere.
The yonkos are supposed to be the strongest most feared in the world, but they all kinda just do their own thing. Big Mom just wants to eat and grow her family, Kaido is fucking around in Wano, and we never know what Shanks is up to. Not to say they all don't want the one piece too (Mom had her own poneglyph after all), but damn they don't show it as hard as Luffy or say Kidd.

Speaking of which you have the rookies. They all want one piece as well, but some more then others like Law and Kidd. Which once again, they are all doing their own thing. Joining alliances, going undercover, or hell Bege who has a family now. So I guess they are right about Luffy not having his own Sasuke clashing heads with him at every turn, but that's not an issue for me.
One Piece has issues, but not having a rival definitely never came to my mind.

It's a tie between We are, the german one and hikari e

>Recently

i guess that means the last seven years right?

AIMED at. Do we need to post the chart for the millionth time?

oda already, and recently, spoke about manga rivalries: he said he currently feels no pressure from other series but the moment some would catch up on one piece, he might have to do some extra "research" to see what the current popular trends are

i might paraphrase this a little bit but in his interview with horikoshi, he was basically pushing him to be his next kishimoto. at least, that's what i got from it

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For me the problem is more that it grew up somewhat than the parts in which it didn't. I came for adventure, mystery and fun and I stayed for the same reasons. And also because I grew to like the characters too much to not feel happy seing them bullshitting their way across the world.

>he might have to do some extra "research" to see what the current popular trends are
I pray for a new popular wild west manga.

>keeps advancing the plot foreward
What plot exactly? We are almost at the end of the series and yet, not a single major plot point is solved.

And so what ? Oda is writting One piece in a way that young people can comprehend everything, otherwise nami and robin would have to stop fighting because of menstruations you fucking retard. One piece is an amazing piece of entertainment because Oda know how to write easy to understand, compelling stories. You are now able to see through it because you are not who oda is writing for anymore.

Japs live in a very conservative society, deep down they feel ashamed to root for individualistic characters but they can rationalize it if the character is competing with a rival

>you just have to read
That's the problem, I'm only reading, in a visual medium

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Wrong, if the magazine ranking slipped down he would need to research but that’s unlikely since jump and diehard fans won’t let it slip passed 1 or 2 overall.
He does acknowledge op is not the most popular in the west or with children though since his daughter loves mha and not op.

Thank god that you aren’t writing OP

>nothing happens the manga

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One Piece has been shit for like a decade.

It's been sucking ever since Water 7 ended with the exception of Sabaody and Impel Down.

Luffy has no rival on the same level as Ichigo and Naruto pre timeskip. So Oda doesn't feel compelled to raise the stakes. Deku and Asta have yet to reach the level of Luffy.

yikes

>there is no rival
But there's way bigger series out there? One Piece is just lesser DB: pirates edition to begin with.

Be honest, maybe you should just read a different manga.

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>if the magazine ranking
i'm pretty sure he was talking about sales tho

>comparing adventure series to straight battle series

A rival doesn't really introduce stakes though, also Kid is likely Luffy's rival from here on out, with dialogue supporting that.

Sales have gone down for years already.

>Oda is writting One piece in a way that young people can comprehend everything
>otherwise nami and robin would have to stop fighting because of menstruations you fucking retard
I think you're conflating realism with demographic user. I agree with the other user pointing out that Luffy just pulls wins out of every arc and some times it's with no real training and just the typical mid-fight power boost. This is something that even the target demographic can point out and complain about although I doubt they are also posting about it on the internet as loudly as older readers will. Instead of complaining about mentration, it's just the people that didn't like how Luffy managed to even fight Katakuri to a standstill despite getting destroyed pretty much the entire time.

I pray for a wild west arc in OP.

>rival

I feel like Kid will be more of an ally than a rival to be desu

and yet the series has been at the top for eleven years straight

>can comprehend anything

There is a very large amount of people who don't understand how Luffy vs Kata played out.

And I pray you get hit by a bus

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I'm just going with what the manga supports.

Who are you again?

i mean, whiskey peak is already kinda that

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I think that's Nami, ie. Orange Vivi

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I would be more than okay with a completely plot unrelated filler arc if they hire a writer as good as the one that did the Condriano/G8 thing.

>blackbeard
>shitty

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Kid is shaping up to be a proper rival for Luffy, though probably not an antagonistic one.

Water 7 is close enough. Fighting federal agents on a train. That's as wild west as it gets.
Cowboy island aka Banaro also exists in the OP world, but the fight between Ace and Blackbeard kind of annihilated it.

>Naruto
>most of Yea Forums seems content with it
How fucking new are you?

I know it's a controversial opinion but I agree, I didn't like Zou either due to the lack of fights in a BATTLE SHONEN. It's explicitly stated on the first spread of this series that it's a battle shonen and there are barely any fights.

Oda made us a promise here and he better deliver.

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>hero

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goddamnit. do i have to admit that this is subversive?

>law is straight up turned into a comrade
>expecting Eustace to be anything other than another reluctant ally of the strawhats
Oda isn't going to allow any of these guys to contest Luffy. Face it and move on.

>threatening Oda with something he's been obviously planning to do for a long time

I can only guess they mean no handsome bishounen rival.

reminder that luffy said that he would have been ok with linlin rampaging through her islands if she wanted meat instead of candies

Just asking nicely, are you caught up?

Oda mentioned being envious of 3-gatsu no lion. At the very least he feels challenged by non-battle series.

He reads Kingdom so we're good. He's aware of the absolute toughest ongoing competition he has.

Yes. Oda already broke the promise with Law. Kid being in prison with Luffy doesn't mean he's going to be some kind of rival character and now he has a reason to work alongside Luffy since both will have beef with Kaido. I doubt once they leave the island Kid will be relevant to Luffy's journey again until it comes time to fight the marines and he'll once again be on luffy's side.

STFU
They'll eventually turn into friendly rivals. Oda is not going to break my heart like this.

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I'm interested to see how the bottom panel can be twisted into anything other than rivals bickering.

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Eustace isn't a rival just because he bickered with Luffy a single time after not seeing each other for literally a decade. They are going to work together this arc, the writing is already on teh wall. I don't know why you are expecting otherwise when you know how obvious this teamup is.

Rivals often work together in situations that call for it, doesn't mean they aren't rivals. Good twisting though.

So, it was good for the first 22 years when Luffy didn't have a rival, but that's it! Enough is enough! Do I have that right?

Yes, I'm not counting Blackbeard or Akainu because they clearly aren't.

>because kaiba teamed up with yugi in the past, they aren't rivals

Blackbeard is literally his main rival for the Pirate King throne, he's just also endgame.

One Piece is shit but I'm laughing at your life that the opinion of a random faggot on 5ch is worth referencing. Do you think the niche comic communities in Japan give a single shit about what Yea Forums thinks? Plus Japs have shit taste who are easily led by the nose if a gacha game has tits and ass and take out mortages

Fuck I forgot about this. I guess Kid is going to be a rival type character.

No, I know perfectly well what Blackbeard is, I think I worded my post poorly. When I said
>I'm not counting Blackbeard or Akainu because they clearly aren't
"They" doesn't refer to Blackbeard or Akainu, it refers to 5ch.

Well if we see his Shanks assassination plot go through. He's definitely a rival.

>character is never around
>he can still be a rival
I'd argue first and foremost a rival character is someone who shows up frequently on the main character's journey. That's the whole idea behind them. Gary Oaks, Sasuke, Robin mask, Starjun, etc. These guys are constant fictures in their respective series juxtaposed with the main character.

Eustace literally hasn't been around for so long that him arguing with Luffy doesn't make him a rival. I could see it because when he first showed up he was also prideful about one piece and his magnet arm was comparable to gear 3. And maybe if Oda had made it at the very least a constant point to show how Eustace has been growing on this journey across the Grand Line maybe you could have called him a rival. But he's not a part of the story like a rival character should be, and again. We both know he's going to team up with luffy so he doesn't fullfill the rival category by contesting the MC's skill or presence at a constant rate. So he's just another supernova who is going to help luffy out which would make it 3 (4 when you realize Killer will also help Luffy this arc)

This is also why Blackbeard despite also having a parrallel to Luffy is not a rival character. He's not around enough to be that type of character. Which makes him singularly an antagonist and not also a rival.

>implying that Kaiba only showed up once and then Yugi did 5+ arcs by himself only for kaiba to show up again.

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So someone to antagonize Luffy around every corner? Hell Teach still fulfills this more than anyone else, considering how he taunts Luffy at Impel Down and Dressrosa

There's nothing to suggest they'll be friends after Wano. Kid already been shown as the sadistic one of the Supernovas. He also has a plot to kill shanks. If we see him go through with it, that would certainly make him Luffy's rival.

Its Ironic. You want Luffy and Kidd to be rivals, yet you post the one image that, following the current trend of the series, cements that they're going to recreate this scene when facing off against Kaido

>it's just the people that didn't like how Luffy managed to even fight Katakuri to a standstill despite getting destroyed pretty much the entire time.
That's an issue in many battle shounen. The MC and his allies just tank anything that gets thrown at them. They barely dodge, block or deflect atacks. This leads to bad choreography.
It doesn't help that Oda isn't a good action author to begin with.
This will become even more obvious if the superhuman/magic battle tournament type of series becomes a trend.
Kengan had dozens of fights that were leagues better than anything in OP, and the author seems to have realized the issue with the MC being a tank, so the new MC isn't a tank
The Lu Bu/Ryofu Housen vs Thor fight in Shuumatsu no Valhalla was more entertaining than any fight Oda wrote. This was only the first fight and included necessary infodumps to establish some details about the setting. Adam vs Zeus is probably going to be amazing.

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I'm not saying we've had rivals in the past besides Coby, what I am saying is we're clearly getting them now. The Throne Wars have officially started and the top pirates have to compete for One Piece. One Piece has been subverting the shonen rival trope for a long time, but we're quite obviously getting them now.

Nope, One Piece is getting along perfectly fine without any shitty rival character.

>So someone to antagonize Luffy around every corner? Hell Teach still fulfills this more than anyone else,

Teach is barely around, I mean there were multiple years between apperances of teach for fucks sake
And the first time he showed up him and luffy were buddies and drinking together.

They aren't rivals.
They aren't even direct fucking enemies or have anything to hate each other over.
Black beard is just some puffed up shitter that exists for now. That's all.

>ivals in the past besides Coby,
Dude, stop that.
Coby isn't a rival.
He's luffy's buddy.
Hell he's not even around enough to be luffy's buddy.
He's a casual acquaintance at best.

That's really on Oda, though. He originally planned to focus on Kid, Post Time skip but never did. So he's on now trying to make up for lost time. Though again it's not usual for a rival character to show up later in a series. Look at Goku and Vegeta he didn't appear until close to 300 chapters in. Who knows what route that Oda's taking. They can work together but end things on bad terms that puts them into conflict. I could see Kid's plan to take out Shanks make him and Luffy fight. Kid's been shown to be the most sadistic of the SNs. It'd be a huge shame to see him relegated to a friend like Law.

I'm here to follow the narrative, I'm not trying to contradict the narrative to feel clever. Luffy literally said to Coby that they're rivals and that's all I need. The supporting evidence for that is just a bonus.

>Cody
>rival
Pick one and only one
>we're clearly getting them now
Kid would be the first one now because nobody else qualifies as the stereotypical rival character. So far it's been Urogue, Law, and Capone who have specifically targetted yonkou. Yet none of them are rival characters two of the three in fact became allies and either fucked off or are still allies. Kid is next in line for a showing. It's not that One Piece subverts anything and nothing points to him sticking around to be a rival to Luffy. We'll see him again during the world war or something.

>shuumatsu no Valhalla
I don't want Adam to job.

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That's not how rivals work.
Coby has to actually appear, try to fight against Luffy, and be an actual threat to be a rival.
Show don't tell.

>It doesn't help that Oda isn't a good action author to begin with.
Not usually but times like the Enies Lobby fights and Luffy vs Katakuri show that Oda can definitely make amazing fights when he puts in the effort

So are we just going to pretend Coby didn't try to fight Luffy in Marineford? He got his shit kicked in, but that's because he was far below Luffy's level.

whi cares then. thats its just dumb

The need for a rival in a manga like this is pretty useless when there's so much extremely strong opposition the main characters have to defeat, anyway.

The only thing that can rival one piece at this point is Dragonball. Boruto sucks because nobody wanted a sequel.

>My wrong definition of what a rival is is the correct one

Didn't Oda called Kishimoto his rival in their interview?

Dragonball Super also sucks

One piece was never good

It's hard to be a rival when you're both never around the guy you're a supposed rival too and weaker than the guy you're supposed to be rivaling. They are supposed to be equal or stronger than the main character and a constant presence. Coby is a luffy fanboy just like the rest.

Don't jump the gun, Kingdom was scary as fuck as competition until we got to Reverie. Also I hope you mean original Dragonball.

Super sucks because Toriyama thought it was a good idea to make Goku and Vegeta the main stars instead of Goten, Trunks, and Jaco

Who?

A Luffy fanboy that fights him. He may be below Luffy's level, but we already have so many high threats in the series that it'd be redundant and unrealistic for Coby to be like that right now.

pretty much /thread

Hxh is trash

Buggy the Clown is Luffy's main rival.

That's not how rivals work.
If that were the case then everyone in OP including Ace was Luffy's rival.

I can call Oda's wife ugly and Oda himself a hack but we both know neither of those things are true.

Luffy does not have a proper rival.
Not saying that he needs one, but pretending he does is just...embarassing both of us.

Luffy does not have a THREATENING* rival that's constantly in his face. But is being set up to have one with at least Kid. Then Blackbeard at the end.

Super sucks because it like the BoG movie only exists because Toei and Shushu both decided to shit out a fuck up of a series based on the popularity of the disasterous cancer known as the Return of Frieza movie.

We've been seeing people who couldn't write their way out of a paper bag, toei/shushu suits who're triying to ring every single cent from this turd, and VA who're wanting to play around and get their big moments fuck the entire goddamned world up for years now.

It's an unmitigated disaster and not even the fanfic creators, you know the ones that aren't on payrolls or have to keep up with db to make paper, are paying any heed to it.

Nothing's guaranteed with Oda. We have no idea where Luffy and Kid will leave things. I could definitely see Kid's plan to kill Shanks bring him and Luffy to blows. I just don't see Kid as being someone that would be willing to work with Luffy once they're finished with beating Kaido. Kid has been shown to be the most sadistic member of the SNs, who's already said he won't let Luffy do whatever he wants. He's definitely not like Law and Capone. And he's the only one of the SN's beside BB who's a villain that's being built up as Luffy's equal. With them being equal in strength and both having CoC's.

>Luffy does not have a THREATENING* rival that's constantly in his face.
Then he doesn't have a rival.
He has walking minor obstacles that he merely has to push over and walk on.

>But is being set up to have one with at least Kid.
Yeah...no. Neither you nor I believe this.

>Then Blackbeard at the end.
Not a rival. A minor antagonist.
I'm more interested in fucking Enel then Blackbeards lame ass.

Doesn't Buggy the Clown count as a rival to Luffy?

>If that were the case then everyone in OP including Ace was Luffy's rival.
This is true

>the least liked and least satisfying endings to a fight in OP history..
What the fuck. I only ever see praise for LuffyvKatakuri, even on Yea Forums. Everybody loves the fight.

the only good rivals in a battle shounen where ruby and sapphire in pokemon special

>wanting a rival to derail the premise of a series
Why?

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If you have to lie, there's no point in continuing.

>kaiba
>not the best part of yugioh and the best rival in shonen

>Not a rival.
Not Shanks or Kaido or Big Mom but Blackbeard is a legitimate rival to Luffy as they both want to find the One Piece
>A minor antagonist.
yikes

Kaiba WAS the entire premise

Luffy saved Coby's future. Of course he would be a fanboy, he owes everything he has right now to Luffy and his family.

>rival
>fightfags
No.

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kaiba was an antagonist of the week that was so popular the entire manga was rewritten around him

>shitty badly built up antagonist
Why was he badly built up? Blackbeard's slow rise from nobody to world titan was amazing.

God I fucking hate this normie comic.

>there is no rival
Almost every other pirate captain is a rival.
Also Coby

What a joke.

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Glad to see lots of Cobybros in this thread

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Luffy doesn't need a Sasuke or Bakugou style rival and O pray to god he never gets one.

>celestial dragons / gorosei / world government doesn't even make the list

There were still better than it's current competition

i'm sorry you were dropped on your head when you were born.

One day the Celestial Dragons will be removed from power, I wonder if they'll just be slaughtered wholesale

Kidd is Luffy's rival and his whitebeard you fools.

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>He only has one potential archrival and he's too busy being an immortal god and fucking hot robot bitches on the moon.
Enel is not even remotely close to a rival, let alone archrival
Luffy doesn't give a single shit about that guy

lol no.

>is that garps back???
Oops its Koby, I got confused

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Maybe Shanks is a former world noble who became a pirate, but because he wasn't a faggot he got to be an emperor instead of some bratty warlord

Hey I’m kinda new (been lurking for 8 months or so) and I don’t exactly get what a fightfag is

Is it someone who cares more about the fights in a Shounen more than the narrative?

Oda fucking hates the Celestials and their real world counterparts. A villain like Arlong can live, the Celestials have to die for the world of One Piece to truly change.

>best rival in shonen
Most of his actions don't have any justification.

You got it exactly right. They're annoying because "shounen" is a very broad time, it doesn't just mean "manga with lots of fights". There are shonen that focus on worldbuilding or adventure or lore, there are shonen that focus on physchological games, there are shounen without a single fight. Misplaced expectations are very bad. You wouldn't expect a bicycle to go as fast as a car.

The CDs themselves are complete fodder. The only reason they're a 'threat' is because they hide behind the WG
We don't know if the Gorosei can fight at all
And the WG's personally strongest fighters are Rob Lucci, who has already lost

Newfag.

just because you're too brainlet to figure them out doesn't mean they aren't there

user, he cares even less about blackbeard and he see's that annoying voiced faggot colby as a little brother he humors not a rival.
Enel is not only a physical threat to lufffy(ignore the lol electricity doesn't work on rubber joke) but he also has an inexhaustible nigh infinite army of machines and one of the great super ships. He's also been probably training this whole time.
Dude is basically the frieza of the series before they pulled the three months training bullshit.
In this instance, Enel training seriously instead of relying on his genetic gifts and bullshit tier level of control over his fruit will make him a world level threat.
It will only take him nuking an island that luffy is on into nothing because he remember luffy kicking his ass to start that rivalry off.

The fucking pirate king and even shanks have rivals.
Luffy?
He ain't got shit going on.
He's still a pants shitting kid who's being pampered by the plot in the grand scheme of things.

Well with the way they behave, and if Doffy is any indicator, they won't be able to hide their ex-noble status for long.

You're assuming waaay too much. Consider that we didn't know most of Big Mom's forces and their capabilities before we got to her arc, same with Kaido, same with Crocodile, Doflamingo.

They're all shit and flimsy at best.

Dude, you have got to be trolling to be this deliberately obtuse.

>three months
>bullshit

There's speedreading then there's whatever you're doing.

The CD's clearly have a formidable force of their own in the form of CP0. They almost recruited Big Mom as a child.
And they probably have some trump card that keeps the marines in line. Like they're holding the whole world hostage with an ancient weapon or something.

t. brainlet

>I don't want Adam to job.
He can't job, because at least according to our current understanding every fighter only fights once.
I am almost certain that he is going to win, the gods need to be put into their place. If their leader dies, then the atmosphere of the tournament will change entirely.

I think the anime is affecting your perception of the fights in the manga. Both of the fights are bad, and this becomes even more obvious if you cut all the "interludes". Look at the second panel, there's a wide shot with no-name characters praising luffy's speed. Why?
And the rest of the page doesn't even make any sense.
1. Katakuri tries to kick Luffy with his left leg.
2. Luffy dodges by quickly moving forward and behind Katakuri.
3. Katakuri somehow manages to kick Luffy who is behind him with his right leg. The kick throws Luffy into the group of cooks. How?
To land the kick from this position Katakuri must stop his first kick, turn 90°, take at least three steps backwards, catch up to Luffy using sideways movement, and then do a jump kick with his right leg.
This isn't bad choreography, there isn't any choreography at all. Oda moved the characters to create "cool" panels, he didn't consider the space his characters are in or where they are in relation to each other. This isn't highspeed movement, Katakuri literally teleported.

Attached: Katakuri's magical kick.png (900x1302, 1004K)

They are holding the world hostage with a superweapon.
Their bloodline.

Jesus, that’s gotta be draining

People joke about Berserk being “Big Sword Swoosh Swoosh” but imagine people reading Berserk exclusively for that, and getting angry when it didn’t focus on “Big Sword Swoosh Swoosh”.

One Piece is not bad, but there are a lot of crap characters (like ugly slut Nico Robin)

Elaborate.
Go on.

Gol D Roger had Whitebeard and Garp as his rivals and they made his adventures seem grand and amazing.

Luffy doesn't have a goddamned thing in terms of rivals.
He has random assholes he beats up then never sees again and "fweinds" who'll show up once or twice then never again.

Frieza didn't train for three months and acquire beyond super saiyajin blue power?

This is one of my favorite pages from the fight.

Egoism isn't enough to be really impressive.

Fuck there used to be so many expressions besides happy, sad, shocked, angry. Even if a lot of these were anime only.

>Whats everyones favorite One Piece OP?
Die Legende
youtube.com/watch?v=9iSPOq9PCqk

Why?

I just like it, the choreography and followup are quite good.

>posting that page as an example of bad choreography

Why would you make things harder for yourself?

How many big Shonen even have main rivals recently? Gon doesn't have a rival. Ichigo never really had one rival for the entire series he'd get a new one every arc. I guess Bakugo counts but it always seems so one sided when Deku has 0 ambition to compete with Baku. Sasuke and Vegeta seem like the exception not the rule.

youtube.com/watch?v=AUilDOB9SGQ
This one. It got a lot of run time too. Started around the end of Thriller Bark and lasted until about halfway through Impel Down.

Why did you quote me?

He doesn't need a personal rival, it's a stupid fucking concept. They bring nothing to the table. And like plenty of anons have already said, literally everyone but his allies are his rivals, they are all gunning for the same thing he is gunning for, he's trying to beat them to it. Roger didn't view Garp as his rival, he was a dude who went at it with to the point where he trusted him as a friend.
The Sasukes and Yunos and Gary Oaks and all that other shit aren't always necessary and are oftentimes just annoying roadblocks that either completely end up dominating the series, or steal the spotlight away from the main characters. Ad yeah, once he beats the asshole up there is no need for them to keep fucking with him, either they get locked up or they go off and do other shit (Enel, Crocodile)
And all of Luffy's friends reappear, all the time. Stop shitposting dude.

>Why would you make things harder for yourself?
Almost everything is wrong with that page.

lol woops, didn't realize you were responding to someone else

Ichigo didn't have any rivals, I was happy about that.

The thing with Deku vs Bakugo is that rivalry matters a lot to the manga, but with 7 quirks there's no tension or stakes to it anymore.

We're just going to have to disagree.

First of all, Luffy doesn’t need an explicit rival. His goal is to find the One Piece. Literally every other pirate is trying to do that. In essence, every other captain that’s made it as far as him is a rival, along with the Yonkou, which he’s no where near the same level on considering Gear 4th has done nothing to the two Yonkou it was used on.

Second, we don’t even know that Eneru is training. I don’t know why you think he’s doing that instead of just kicking back on the moon and being worshipped. Even if he was, Eneru’s kind of plateaued in terms of power. Armament counters his body, so he’d have to be doing nothing but training for two years to keep up with someone like, say, Katakuri, or maybe a member of CP0. Hell, Big Mom tanked what was essentially Judgement back on Whole Cake and it did way more damage to the environment than it did to her. Why you keep bringing him up, I’m not sure.

Honestly I worry about Yonkou more than Eneru. Big Mom has tanked ridiculous shit without even blinking, Kaidou has been demonstrated to be unkillable and wrecked Luffy in one shot for even trying, and Blackbeard is building a crew of insane DF users and is a known “ability theif”. Not to mention that the guy can negate DF powers and cause tsunamis with his second devil fruit. Maybe he has 4 now, who the fuck knows? All of these guys are hurdles the Straw Hats are going to have to deal with at one point, and having a “rival character” with them during that doesn’t really add anything.

I am open for other viewpoints, this is a discussion board and the site is 18+.
Perhaps I have too high standards, but I think an adult should be able to explain and give reasons for his opinions.

Yes, this is an example of one piece which defines why I like it. It's silly but still makes you think!

Pirates fight are not fair!!!

Attached: one-piece-8312713.jpg (1200x882, 317K)

I don't really care to argue it. We have fundamentally different viewpoints on what constitutes a good page and the entire purpose of manga panels.

neither is brainletism

>Perhaps I have too high standards
You certainly do if you think Oda has bad choreography when he's one of the best

You can pretend he's not bungled in various ways, but that doesn't change the fact that he is.

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>I think the anime is affecting your perception of the fights in the manga
>Implying I watch the anime

You can pretend that you're not a brainlet, but you are.

>Katakuri literally teleported
Look at the second panel. Katakuri is switching his legs there.
>take at least three steps backwards,
Luffy didn't get too far away. He caught him in quite literally mid-movement.

Do HxH cucks have chad drawfriends? No? I rest my case.

Attached: coloredAmande.png (700x638, 341K)

It'd be weird if they had someone who could draw better than the mangaka

Nobody needs to be smart to see through kaiba.

Yeah, because Oda would never do something so fucking boring

Fuck off normies, if that sort sanguineous nostalgia bating bullshit doesn't make you sick to your stomach and/or suicidal, you're way too normie to be here.

They don't need to be anything since there's nothing to see through

I already figured out what Oda would do with the Gorosei a long time ago. Sengoku has a Buddha mythical zoan, right? The Gorosei are the leaders of the gods, the 5 gods serving under the One True God. They'd all have mythical god zoans like Sengoku. It'd be dope. It's important to note we know none of their names, if we did it'd be too easy to figure out what their deal is.

But eveyone draws better than him

Attached: marcille5.png (182x226, 57K)

No they're not

>バギーにしても煙のにしてもまったく出てこんからな

>ライバルではないがサスケポジみたいなのはゾロやろ
>いわばもう一人の主人公的ポジやろ

It's just that he's not that great of rival.

>Perhaps I have too high standards
The problem, like the other user said, is that you have a different understanding of what makes a well choreographed fight since I also interpreted the scene differently to what you didOda isn't as good as Murata or Boichi when it comes to fight choreography or panelling but he's still damn one of the best as a world renown mangaka.

You also said Luffy vs Lucci wasn't choreographed well so there's really no way to change your mind since I think that was the most beautifully drawn fights by Oda so far.

Attached: page-8.png (1600x1264, 961K)

Attached: 13b (1).png (923x1300, 296K)

>Oda isn't as good as Murata or Boichi
yes he is

Why did Oda make them fight Emerald Weapon before Sephiroth?

>shanks
>kaidou
>linlin
>teach
???????are they not considered rivals

I like Boichi, but he draws all of his fights exactly the same. It's not harsh critique, but it is a very true one. He also suffers from the same crippling sameface people give Oda shit for, only Boichi's sameface is REALLY bad.

They are, it's just not explicitly stated so surface level readers miss that. They are rivals for the Pirate King throne.

Because he's a madman. Say our party's like... level 70. We need to level up to 90 to stand any sort of chance, this arc.

>5ch
Is that the place where pedophiles gather?

Nah. Oda's good at fight choreography but it's not his specialty. His specialty's storytelling and world building.
I mean at least Oda proved he can draw different looking pretty girls in Amazon Lily and WCI. Boichi's females all look fake as fuck and cater heavily to Koreans.

Attached: page-10.png (1024x809, 523K)

The circled smear is Luffy moving at high speed.
>Katakuri is switching his legs there.
Doesn't matter, Katakuri can't hit Luffy from the direction he hits him in panel three without repositioning himself.
Which shouldn't be possible, because like you said Luffy is already in midair, his movement already started.
I don't consider Oda a bad mangaka, but I do think that he's bad at drawing action scences.

Attached: Katakuri's magical kick 2.png (900x1302, 728K)

Isn't Katakuri rotating the entire time until the kick though and capable of seeing the future?

One of the things I never see people talk about in Oda's art is the level of depth he gives his art like the last panel in pic related

Attached: sanji vs jabra.jpg (750x1090, 198K)

Oda’s best choreographed fights were the Luffy vs usopp and vs Croc imo. He was showed some top tier choreography.

And Luffy vs Katakuri, despite what one person who seems to be hyperfixated on a single page he's too stupid to understand would like to claim otherwise

Coby is at best as strong as pre-timeskip Smoker now

Pre-ts Smoker would not be capable of hurling a torpedo underwater.

No devil fruit user would

Pre-ts Smoker wouldn't be capable of hurling a torpedo.

No devil fruit user would

honorable mentions to arlong. wiper is a overrated one too.

You're saying no Devil Fruit user can hurl a torpedo when Whitebeard existed?

*underrated I swear I'm not dyslexic

Where's the proof he could?

He grabbed a giant, slammed him down, and broke his face. Are you trying to deny that Whitebeard has physical strength?

That was just luck.

Devil fruit users sink and are severely weakened while underwater

Hahaha I knew you speedread my post. Read our first 4 posts again.

Giants are a race of jobbers. I don't think we've yet to see any of them win a fight.

We are having interdominial threads now?

Is she really dead bros? If she is I'd say this is Oda's greatest twist yet

Regardless of outside trope examination, in-story they're still meant to be strong. The giant Whitebeard fought swung his sword one time, breaking the ice and flinging marines everywhere.

Sorry I didn't think you were stupid enough to change the argument after being proven wrong, my bad.

No, think about it a little more. In the first 2 replies I'm still right.

>be wrong
>"i'm still right"
Why do I have to do all the thinking?

They're right, Smoker should have been the rival but Oda is a hack.

I said pre-ts Smoker couldn't hurl a torpedo underwater, like Coby. You never disproved this.

I said no devil fruit user could, that includes Smoker, which means I'm agreeing with you. Use that noggin of yours I'm starting to doubt you have.

As long as you understand that Coby is now physically stronger than pre-ts Smoker.

>wiper's fight is overrated

I've really gotten sick of all the threads constantly sucking that fight's dick, it needs to stop.

>rival
What is this gay shit?

The lyric heard in OP 21 when showing Luffy vs Katakuri.

I see, so it's like that.

The Luffy vs Lucci fight still suffers from similar issues.
Luffy should have died in this page. But for some reason (plot armor) Lucci doesn't stab the pinned and immobile Luffy.

Attached: What is Lucci's aim.png (950x1500, 263K)

I mean he's certainly trying to, on the exact page you provided. Luffy can't die yet, Gon hasn't died either and that's in the experimental shounen.

Wait. Your filename. Are you actually thinking that Lucci was missing his stabs there?

law was luffy rival until he joined his harem

He lost his cool. He would have finished him off but that "little punch" enraged him so he wanted to completely crush him instead of just giving him a quick death. And it would have worked normally, because the reason why Lucchi failed to kill him with that attack wasn't because Luffy gained enough time from Lucchi changing his attack style at the last moment, but instead because of Lucchi's damage he took from Luffy's Gear 3rd attack finally taking its toll.

I've thought about that, but Luffy should is almost/already out of his range. And it should have been the other leg that hit Luffy. Still, this is likely what Oda wanted to portray here, the anatomy matches. The issue is how Katakuri manages to do this in time, and why his second leg is airborn. Katakuri lacks a way to pivot, he needs to put his leg down. This entire thing could have been possible with a few changes to Katakuri's posture and DF/superhuman abilities.
This entire talk made me remember the volume 9 SBS, where Oda said that Zeff ate his right leg because the strength of a kick lies in the pivoting leg. And now we have Katakuri doing magical acrobatic kicks without having a pivot leg.

No, aim can be used as a synonym for intention/goal.

I really think you're overthinking it, Katakuri's just twisting on his foot to kick Luffy.

>no rival
who was Luffy's rival? since ever?

Kidd
Blackbeard

>despite what one person who seems to be hyperfixated on a single page he's too stupid to understand would like to claim otherwise
Honestly this.

You're forgetting character intentions and personality. Lucci is a sadistic character that enjoys killing people and since Luffy gave him so much trouble he wanted to make sure he (Luffy) saw him kill Luffy slowly and painfully.
>forgetting that Lucci quite literally let Luffy catch up to him so he could fight him
Anyway the point was on the fight choreography before you moved the goalposts.

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No, I'm not.
>Katakuri's just twisting on his foot to kick Luffy
It's the wrong leg. Katakuri kicks with his left leg in panel one, and he hits Luffy with his right leg in panel three.

There are far crueler things that Lucci could have done. Disabeling Luffy and murdering all his nakama before his eyes while he helplessly watches, would have been a possibility.
We're talking about a mass murdering assasin here.
Clearly this doesn't fit the tone of OP, the solution is to change the scene. All of us know that Luffy wasn't going to die, but Lucci shouldn't be forced to behave illogical and out of character for the sake of the plot.

Still, I did reread the entire fight, and I must say that I've been too harsh.
There are some panels have issues with, and the constant intermissions/breaks were annoying.
But overall It's a well done fight, and while not amazing, I would say that the choreography is good.

Those are two separate kicks.

They are separate kicks you simpleton.

>There are far crueler things that Lucci could have done. Disabeling Luffy and murdering all his nakama before his eyes while he helplessly watches, would have been a possibility.
Yes but he didn't given the situation that Franky was allowed to pass by Lucci thanks to Luffy, which Lucci didn't want. By here Lucci just wanted to kill Luffy painfully and quickly so he could get to Robin.
>Clearly this doesn't fit the tone of OP, the solution is to change the scene. All of us know that Luffy wasn't going to die, but Lucci shouldn't be forced to behave illogical and out of character for the sake of the plot.
What is Lucci's character? Why is it illogical?

*repost since I quoted the wrong person
There are far crueler things that Lucci could have done. Disabeling Luffy and murdering all his nakama before his eyes while he helplessly watches, would have been a possibility.
We're talking about a mass murdering assasin here.
Clearly this doesn't fit the tone of OP, the solution is to change the scene. All of us know that Luffy wasn't going to die, but Lucci shouldn't be forced to behave illogical and out of character for the sake of the plot.

Still, I did reread the entire fight, and I must say that I've been too harsh.
There are some panels have issues with, and the constant intermissions/breaks were annoying.
But overall It's a well done fight, and while not amazing, I would say that the choreography is good.

>before you moved the goalposts
No, I didn't. The discussion was about Oda's fights in general. See which is my first post in this chain and the point from which this discussion originated. It's true that the discussion started to focus more on choreography, but at the core it was about Oda's battles.

Yes,they are. That's kinda the point in one of my previous posts.
The issue is that the second kick is impossible. Katakuri's left leg is airborne, he just used it for a front kick.
He has no pivot. He can't do the second kick without bringing his left leg to the ground. Which he never does.

>Disabeling Luffy
He tried an failed. And until Luffy would be TRULY disabled he wouldn't risk leaving him alone since Luffy was a real threat to him, since he was able to tank Lucchi's strongest attack. And leaving Luffy alone to focus on his companions while Luffy was under side-effects of Gear 3 would be stupid because he'd just give Luffy a free chance to recover.
And no he can't do something like "break Luffy's bones". They are made of rubber and so on, so it would be more efficient to target his vitals instead, which he did, but it wasn't enough, because Luffy has SHOUNEN PROTAGONIST TANKYNESS™

This is where things get tricky.
Remember when I mentioned us having different understandings of the purpose of manga panels? You seem to believe a manga panel always has to be the exact next thing that's happening, while I believe they're a series of moments the author is showing us with an undefined amount of time between them. So I believe that Katakuri had enough time to reposition himself and kick Luffy the second time, which would take max a few seconds. Luffy sometimes activates G2 now "instantly", but that's in fact Oda just skipping him pumping it because it's implied that he does that and it's a waste of a panel.

Shounen rivals are just fujobait.

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>What is Lucci's character?
Lucci is shown to be a sadistic assasin, he is someone who takes joy from inflicting pain to his opponents.
He should be able to painfully kill Luffy without jumping backwards and using Madara. Even disabeling Luffy would have been easy. He just needed to pierce Luffy's limbs and gouge out his eyes. Luffy probably would have died from bloodloss but he still would have seen how Lucci starts going after his nakama.

Yeah the rival trope really worked well for mha and naruto

based chikaposter

Goda has good taste and knew that Blackbeard being a fat nigger interested in history was more appealing than him being a perfect genius kekaiku final boss

>gouge out his eyes
>still would have seen
pick one.
Also Luffy is a fucking superhuman being who tanked Lucchi's strongest attack multiple times, even though they should have "ruptured his organs" by the first time. Using hypotheticals based on real-life biology/medicine/physics in OP-verse is not a good idea. Might as well say that Luffy could just win all his fights by stubbornly wrapping around his enemies and suffocating them with his rubberness.

Didn't he try that with Nami?

Hori doesn't like violence, dark stories and can add depth to any of his characters or world in a meaningful way. I'm pretty sure BNHA is the new bleach

>Lucci is shown to be a sadistic assasin, he is someone who takes joy from inflicting pain to his opponents.
* who enjoys inflicting pain and then killing his opponents

That situation was very characteristic of Lucci. He had Luffy trapped and powerless and was about to kill him.

Asking why didn't he just use a Rankyaku to kill him from a distance is out of character for CP9 agents since we see that they mainly use Shigan to assassinate people. Lucci literally Luffy right where he wanted him and would have killed him if it wasn't for the Gear 3 attack he took.

>He just needed to pierce Luffy's limbs and gouge out his eyes.
Your only problem with this is that you're not writing it.

* had Luffy right where

>drive him to further heights.
Isn't that literally what Aikanu did?

Wouldn't it be dificult to have an enemy that is always around when the story is about Pirates travelling the world?

>I believe that Katakuri had enough time to reposition himself and kick Luffy the second time, which would take max a few seconds.
The issue with this is time, Luffy is already/almost out of Katakuri's range the momemt the front kick reaches it's peak height.
A few seconds is far too long, the movement needs to be instantenous.

>seem to believe a manga panel always has to be the exact next thing that's happening, while I believe they're a series of moments the author is showing us with an undefined amount of time between them
No, I just like choreography in my fight scences. Which by definition needs clearly defined motion.

>Luffy is already/almost out of Katakuri's range
You don't know this. Your only evidence is a bunch of zigzag lines to represent Luffy moving at fast speeds. Katakuri is five meters long it's hard not to be in his range.

*pick one.
Terrible wording on my part, *heard.
>Using hypotheticals based on real-life biology/medicine/physics in OP-verse is not a good idea.
Luffy's weakness have always been sharp objects, claws that can pierce through solid concrete should be enough to pierce his skin.

>. Katakuri is five meters long it's hard not to be in his range.
And Luffy is moving at high speed.

>Your only evidence is a bunch of zigzag lines to represent Luffy moving at fast speeds
This is one of the common ways to show highspeed movement.

And bad ones at that.

One piece does suck now everyone agrees on that
Not everyone agrees why

>based hajrudin vs machvise, pushing him with all of his bone broken when he was 10 000 tons forms
>also new giant pirate with cutie pie gerth

Wano will fix everything, it's healing already.

How's amnesia mom doing?

Whens Enel gonna come back bros, i miss my favorite long ear boy

Based IRL Ussop poster

twitter.com/marochu_/status/1061843737481961472

Holy shit that is a terrible page, what series is that from?

You forget about Yamcha, Krillin and Picollo JR.

Hunter X Hunter

Yeppers, already fixed 5 post-ts issues.

Reminder that Gear Five will be Calm Man. After his blood (Gear 2), bones (Gear 3) and muscle (Gear 4), Luffy will utilize his rubber property on his nervous system, by blowing air into his brain. This will allow him to remain constantly calm, allowing for greater control over his observation haki and near constant use of future sight. Luffy developed this after recognizing he gets enraged too easily, leading to his devestating defeat by Kaidou - he could have easily dodged that blow with future sight, but couldn't because of his rage.
As for this gears drawback, Luffy's brain contracting again after Gear Fifth' use will cause him to have light amnesia and no recollection of what happened during his fight.

This is not up for debate.
Debate me.

Cant see why not

fag

>if we did it'd be too easy to figure out what their deal is.
The devil fruit users who have a fruit related to their name are very few and far between. Smoker is the only one I can recall.

I think we all forget that Katakuri can stretch, he is made of mochi after all.

Of course

Translate?

it's gonna be his fat cells desu. gear 5:michelin man is gonna wreck kaidou's shit.

We already have Tankman for this.